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thague
01-29-2006, 03:02 AM
but D'Brickshaw Ferguson was known as the best player at the senior bowl all week during practice.. and he DOMINATED the football game at the tackle position... i have wanted to trade down since we had the number one pick but this has to give kubiak and casserly something else to think about.. even kiper said D'Brick was the best player at the senior bowl, (well him and Williams from Memphis). trade down and take the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones.

Texans>Colts
01-29-2006, 08:34 AM
but D'Brickshaw Ferguson was known as the best player at the senior bowl all week during practice.. and he DOMINATED the football game at the tackle position... i have wanted to trade down since we had the number one pick but this has to give kubiak and casserly something else to think about.. even kiper said D'Brick was the best player at the senior bowl, (well him and Williams from Memphis). trade down and take the next Orlando Pace or Walter Jones.

Or next Jonathan Odgen. :stirpot: :ok: :superman: :yahoo: I would trade down 2 and get the raiders 1st, 2nd round picks, and a player.

BREAZE
01-29-2006, 09:26 AM
I saw a guy juke right and then blow right past him to his left to smash the QB...he should fit in well here.

Nobody is perfect, just an observation. Picking a 1st round lineman is a risky move...especially when we have the #1 in the second, 3rd, 4th rounds,etc. I would only take him if we can get another player...a 2 for 1.

cadahnic
01-29-2006, 09:34 AM
D'Brick did look solid most of the game other than in the running game. It was noticeable that he was playing at a higher weight than he is used to. I noticed several times that he was stiff out of his break and his punch was off balanced. I also saw a bunch of times were he took his man completely out of the play when trying to pass rush. He earned more respect from me, eventhough I still dont think he has a nasty streak. BTW to all the people that were saying Jon Scott in the second that kid looked horrid during the game, and the Allen kid from UT the center I think, he looks like a 6-7th round pick if he gets picked at all, he better lose weight and try and lach on somewhere as a long snapper.

BuffSoldier
01-29-2006, 10:43 AM
Ferguson go beat on one play, that was suprising, but no ones perfect. He dominated the rest of the time and thats what Im interested in.

A couple of other players got beat too and they looked average the rest of the game, and if they looked average in the senior bowl, then they wont be able to get the job done against Freeny twice a year.

In the run game Ferguson looked average at best, which isnt good, he didnt impress, but I did see that he had alot of quicknedss off the ball and the ability to get to running LBs. Getting there is half the battle now if we get Mike Sherman as our o-line coach Im sure he will be able to get him to put hands on the LBs, and as weve seen, once Ferguson is locked up wiht a player, they dont get loose.

nunusguy
01-29-2006, 10:46 AM
Even though he got burnt real bad by one pass rusher's inside move, he
was without question the best pass blocking OT in the Senior Bowl. However,
there's still the issue of his ability to be an effective blocker on rushing plays ?

4Texans
01-29-2006, 11:08 AM
I'm all for trading down with the pick, but not just to get Ferguson. I'm still curious to see what the new Coaching staff is going to do with the O-line.

cadahnic
01-29-2006, 11:09 AM
I still like Eric Winston better than D'Brick right now because he is more complete at this moment. I like guys built like the Denver and Patriots line, guys that can play a multitude of positions, but play the position they are very solid. Just my thought. Ferguson is a LT or nothing, I dont think he would do well at the RT or G positions. If you watched the Vtech game and Miami you would see how Ferguson does against stronger pass rushers. Frostee Rucker and Daryl Tapp ate his lunch a good many times, but that could be due to his lack of size at the time and his nagging injuries. Dont get me wrong the guy is likely the best LT prospect in the draft and I would compare him to someone other than future HOFers like Jones and Pace, but he does play somewhat like them without the size or nasty streak, so I guess not much like them anyway. As I saw it Winston was the most complete OL at the Senior Bowl and Ferguson was the best LT and hyped OL at the senior bowl. It made me laugh when Kiper had to spit up a little of his man juice and show the clips of the two sacks he gave up to Daryl Tapp. BTW Winston was credited with 1.5 sacks given up this year and that is why he won the ACC linemen of the year award, damn shame he did not get Rosenhaus to start the hype machine for him.

houstonhurricane
01-29-2006, 11:42 AM
There is no way we can trade down for anyone other than Ferguson. As a Hurricane (listen up my UT friends), I am not a proponent of drafting Winston - especially in the early first round. He really did not perform all that well this year with the 'Canes and you will see him struggle at the combines with the bench press (i.e. he simply is not that strong).

sprtsfanatic
01-29-2006, 12:08 PM
I missed the game so I greatly appreciate the posters who put input into this topic. Wish I could have seen for myself...will it be replayed at any time???

jetdoc
01-29-2006, 12:22 PM
I saw a guy juke right and then blow right past him to his left to smash the QB...he should fit in well here.

Nobody is perfect, just an observation. Picking a 1st round lineman is a risky move...especially when we have the #1 in the second, 3rd, 4th rounds,etc. I would only take him if we can get another player...a 2 for 1.

He did it more than ONCE. He got him about 3-4 times IIRC. It was said by the analyst at that time that "...he tends to "long step" on his first step into pass blocking and THAT will get him eaten up in the NFL...". Not saying he can't be taught but let's not make him out to be an "Orlando Pace" or "Anthony Munoz" just yet. Let me put it this way......would his ability make me take a long hard look at him, IF I had a "Franchise Running Back"? That answer would be yes......but with all the holes the Texan's have, they could trade down and get him later. Maybe even as late as 5th or 6th. No later than 6th though. :twocents:

LORK 88
01-29-2006, 02:31 PM
I saw a guy juke right and then blow right past him to his left to smash the QB...he should fit in well here.

Nobody is perfect, just an observation. Picking a 1st round lineman is a risky move...

You realize that scouts.inc ranked the top 20 OT prosepects and 17 out of 20 came in the 1st round (2 were in the 2nd, 1 in the 7th)?? 1st round OTs are proably the easiest to pick because you know what your getting, as opposed to taking a QB or RB where they are the easiest positions to screw up in the draft and are the biggest gamble. D'Brick is a safe bet to me, you can break down every little detail and say he got beat here or there, but when was the last time people were this hyped up about drafting an OT? This guy is going to be great.

Zac
01-29-2006, 02:52 PM
At the begining of this past season, the number one priority was to upgrade the offensive line. It was no secret that the Offensive line wasn't holding it's own.

Remember last year when ESPN was using the Texans as an example of Team needs to be addressed during the draft. Uhmm, those needs weren't addressed and the Offensive line cost Capers his job.

A Left Tackle is the most important position on the line. Left Tackles, Quarterbacks that can make throws, Running backs that can move the chains, and a key receiver are necesities on each team that wishes to be suceesful. Franchise Left Tackles are real important; let's not downgrade their effect on a team because they aren't scoring touchdowns.

This franchise has been searching for a LT for 4 years. Is it time to go out and piss off a city by passing on Bush and Vince? A recipe :stirpot: for sucess or a PR nightmare?

Winning Solves everything.

MorKnolle
01-29-2006, 06:58 PM
There is no way we can trade down for anyone other than Ferguson. As a Hurricane (listen up my UT friends), I am not a proponent of drafting Winston - especially in the early first round. He really did not perform all that well this year with the 'Canes and you will see him struggle at the combines with the bench press (i.e. he simply is not that strong).

You think Ferguson is stronger than Winston?

The Preacher
01-29-2006, 07:18 PM
[QUOTE=Zac] This franchise has been searching for a LT for 4 years. Is it time to go out and piss off a city by passing on Bush and Vince? A recipe :stirpot: for sucess or a PR nightmare?

Both. A year from now it will be an AP/Bush backfield that has people drooling. Just a prediction

Texans>Colts
01-29-2006, 07:56 PM
I saw a guy juke right and then blow right past him to his left to smash the QB...he should fit in well here.

Nobody is perfect, just an observation. Picking a 1st round lineman is a risky move...especially when we have the #1 in the second, 3rd, 4th rounds,etc. I would only take him if we can get another player...a 2 for 1.

u rite. it is risky picking him #1 overall. that's y we trade down 2 the 5ht or 6th pick and get Fugerson and some extra draft picks

Wharton
01-29-2006, 08:16 PM
D'Brick had a good game, but it was not dominant. I thought the scouting reports on him were right on the money - very good feet, good on the speed rush, good technique, gave up alot of ground agianst the bull rush and not a powerful run blocker. Supposedly, D'Brick has put on alot of muscle mass recently, but he will still need to bulk up to hold off NFL defensive ends.

HoustonFrog
01-30-2006, 11:02 AM
D'Brick had a good game, but it was not dominant. I thought the scouting reports on him were right on the money - very good feet, good on the speed rush, good technique, gave up alot of ground agianst the bull rush and not a powerful run blocker. Supposedly, D'Brick has put on alot of muscle mass recently, but he will still need to bulk up to hold off NFL defensive ends.

Agree. I was in Hawaii and the only ESPN news I got was Kipers post game "best players" and he wasn't even mentioned. He also had had a inconsistent senior year and had injuries. Why take a pick that high with him?

YoungTexanFan
01-30-2006, 02:29 PM
D'Brick had a good game, but it was not dominant. I thought the scouting reports on him were right on the money - very good feet, good on the speed rush, good technique, gave up alot of ground agianst the bull rush and not a powerful run blocker. Supposedly, D'Brick has put on alot of muscle mass recently, but he will still need to bulk up to hold off NFL defensive ends.

D'brick does not need to become such a strong run blocker in the zone scheme. He will get help from the LG in turning his man. He needs his quick feet. The RB is through the hole before he is able to turn back around. Feet are more important than arms in zone blocking.

YoungTexanFan
01-30-2006, 02:34 PM
Agree. I was in Hawaii and the only ESPN news I got was Kipers post game "best players" and he wasn't even mentioned. He also had had a inconsistent senior year and had injuries. why take a pick that hight with him?

potential/need outweigh this risk by a great deal.

HoustonFrog
01-30-2006, 02:59 PM
potential/need outweigh this risk by a great deal.

You may be right but I think you can accomplish the same thing by taking Bush/VY, whatever and then using the next 3 of the 66 on O lineman, etc. I just think taking a lineman that high is too much considering we don't have really any real playmakers on both sides of the ball with the exception of maybe two guys. I think you can accomplish BOTH things here.

tulexan
01-30-2006, 03:04 PM
exactly. this is a special year for OL. you can get legitimate first round talent in the second round.

BREAZE
01-30-2006, 06:38 PM
You realize that scouts.inc ranked the top 20 OT prosepects and 17 out of 20 came in the 1st round (2 were in the 2nd, 1 in the 7th)?? 1st round OTs are proably the easiest to pick because you know what your getting, as opposed to taking a QB or RB where they are the easiest positions to screw up in the draft and are the biggest gamble. D'Brick is a safe bet to me, you can break down every little detail and say he got beat here or there, but when was the last time people were this hyped up about drafting an OT? This guy is going to be great.


You realize the top 40 this draft would go 1st round any other year? Plus, Boselli seemed like a safe bet too and look where that got us.

I'm not debating whether the kid is good or not, but the rule of thumb is you take the best player when you have the #1 overall pick. If we trade down for him it better be for a lot more than just him...

TheOgre
01-30-2006, 07:06 PM
I'd love to see him in Steel Blue next year.

YoungTexanFan
01-30-2006, 07:26 PM
You may be right but I think you can accomplish the same thing by taking Bush/VY, whatever and then using the next 3 of the 66 on O lineman, etc. I just think taking a lineman that high is too much considering we don't have really any real playmakers on both sides of the ball with the exception of maybe two guys. I think you can accomplish BOTH things here.

We cannot afford to wait until the 4th round to address the defense. Bush is a great player in his own ways, and I could probally manage to cope with him on our team, but we need 2 O-line, FS, MLB, TE, DE. We will not find guys to start at those positions from late round picks.

stonedtexansfan
01-30-2006, 10:44 PM
if we trade down we have to trade with the jets, trading past would mean that the jets would take D'Brick, and whats the point of trading down unless we get the LT we need. Super Mario would be ok, but Babin and Peek are gonna put their hand down like in college where they desrupted offensives, so thats not worth it. AJ Hawk is possible, but Wong will have to play MLB with Greenwood at OLB, and we could pick up a good starting OLB in the second round. So if we trade past the jets and they take D'Brick we'll then have to trade that pick down farther to get the TE Vernon Davis or DT Haloti Ngata. So to trade past 4th is extremly risky.

WILLIEG
01-30-2006, 11:12 PM
I agrre if we can't trade down to the Jets and get the Godfather deal then I don't see any reason for not picking up Bush/Young as the #1.

LORK 88
01-30-2006, 11:41 PM
You realize the top 40 this draft would go 1st round any other year? Plus, Boselli seemed like a safe bet too and look where that got us.

I'm not debating whether the kid is good or not, but the rule of thumb is you take the best player when you have the #1 overall pick. If we trade down for him it better be for a lot more than just him...

Yea, drafting BPA has REALLY worked out for Detroit . . .

beerlover
01-31-2006, 12:01 AM
DE would be our #1 need if the Texans switch to a 4-3 & you almost have to draft one of those similar to the LT because teams are unwilling to trade them plus they are expensive in free agency. So just from a need standpoint, taking the best player available that fills that need as effeicently manageable under the salary cap as possible the Texans should go:

DE
OT
MLB
FS
TE
OG
WR
CB

Spoda
01-31-2006, 07:04 AM
I still like Eric Winston better than D'Brick right now

wow...did you actually watch the game? i DVR'd it and watched brick get beat once...the rest of the time it seemed as though he gave no effort and yet his man was spinning his wheels applying no pressure...winston on the other hand got beat so many times i quit counting..now his man didn't always get a sack but i don't see how anyone could say he looked better...i am still torn..brick or defense..just don't know

cadahnic
01-31-2006, 07:38 AM
Spoda not only did I watch it but I saw every practice, heard all of them speak and saw most of the weigh ins. I am just telling you the case. If you read the post you would see I said D'Brick is the best LT in the draft, but Winston is the most complete OL in the draft. I personally am hoping that people continue to sell him short and he drops really low in the first were we can go get him at a cheap cost or top of the second. I still want to trade down and take Mario Williams regardless. Brick is not worth a 4th round pick and Mario Williams is. I always solidify my D before my O.

Spoda
01-31-2006, 07:45 AM
Spoda not only did I watch it but I saw every practice, heard all of them speak and saw most of the weigh ins. I am just telling you the case. If you read the post you would see I said D'Brick is the best LT in the draft, but Winston is the most complete OL in the draft. I personally am hoping that people continue to sell him short and he drops really low in the first were we can go get him at a cheap cost or top of the second. I still want to trade down and take Mario Williams regardless. Brick is not worth a 4th round pick and Mario Williams is. I always solidify my D before my O.

i'm all for passing on brick to get mario or hawk...and winston in the second..or whichever tackle falls...that's fine...it just looked like brick was a man among boys playing against the best of college...but either way i'm fine as long as we don't take vince

HoustonFrog
01-31-2006, 09:18 AM
if we trade down we have to trade with the jets, trading past would mean that the jets would take D'Brick, and whats the point of trading down unless we get the LT we need. Super Mario would be ok, but Babin and Peek are gonna put their hand down like in college where they desrupted offensives, so thats not worth it. AJ Hawk is possible, but Wong will have to play MLB with Greenwood at OLB, and we could pick up a good starting OLB in the second round. So if we trade past the jets and they take D'Brick we'll then have to trade that pick down farther to get the TE Vernon Davis or DT Haloti Ngata. So to trade past 4th is extremly risky.

I agree that you can't go past 4 but I don't see any of those D positions as set after what happened last year and I don't think most of the guys will change due to the 4-3. Some but not all. If we move down I agree with Beerlover and say we take a DE..I'd even go LB. But I just think that with the depth of this draft and ..hopefully..the only time we have a pick this high again..you take the best playmaker #1 and then take by best OL, TE, Defense in the next 3 high picks. We will have to see what we can do in FA too.

awtysst
01-31-2006, 10:24 AM
Yea, drafting BPA has REALLY worked out for Detroit . . .

Detroit Draft History
2005: Mike Wiliams
could have had: Shawne Meriman, David Pollack. D. Ware, Spears, Thomas Davis, etc
Decision: Williams was not thje BPA
why picked: Charles Rogers is oft injured and the WR core was in shambles(ie need)

2004: Roy Williams
could have had:Roethlisberger, Dunta, Vilma, or Wilfork.
Decision: Williams not the BPA at the pick.
why picked: likely becuase WR core was not panning out

2003: Charles ROgers
could have had:AJ, Marcus Trufant, Polamalu, or Larry Johnson.
Decision: Rogers not the BPA at pick.
why picked: need for a WR

2002: Joey Harrington
could have had: Roy Williams, Dwight Freeney, Pbuch(cmon had to!) Javon Walker, Ed Reed
Decision: Harrington not the BPA at pick.
why picked: need for a QB

2001: Jeff Backus
could have had:Will Allen, Deuce Mccalister, Todd Heap, Reggie Wayne
Decision: Backus not the BPA
why picked: needed an OT

I think thats far enough. As you can see the Lions have drafted for need, not BPA.

BuffSoldier
01-31-2006, 10:27 AM
Plus, Boselli seemed like a safe bet too and look where that got us.

We knew Boselli was hurt when we drafted him in the expansiond draft. He was a great player but we never really knew if hed come back, we just expected him to.

BuffSoldier
01-31-2006, 10:43 AM
Brick is not worth a 4th round pick and Mario Williams is.

Wow, Brick is not worth a 4th rounder and Mario is. I say we take both of them in the 3rd.:redtowel:
But anyway, If not for The Big 3 (VY,Bush,Leinart) Ferguson would be a top 2 or 3 pick like Gallery was in 04.

I agree that you can't go past 4 but I don't see any of those D positions as set after what happened last year and I don't think most of the guys will change due to the 4-3. Some but not all. If we move down I agree with Beerlover and say we take a DE..I'd even go LB. But I just think that with the depth of this draft and ..hopefully..the only time we have a pick this high again..you take the best playmaker #1 and then take by best OL, TE, Defense in the next 3 high picks. We will have to see what we can do in FA too.

If we take Bush, O-line, TE all in day one, that leaves just 1 PICK for defense out of our total 4 day one picks. Oh and in FA. Julian Peterson and John Abraham are the only unrestricted free agents on defense worth picking up, and I doubt we get either. The only other options is to use some of next years draft picks on restricted free agents.

Detroit Draft History
2005: Mike Wiliams
could have had: Shawne Meriman, David Pollack. D. Ware, Spears, Thomas Davis, etc
Decision: Williams was not thje BPA
why picked: Charles Rogers is oft injured and the WR core was in shambles(ie need)

2004: Roy Williams
could have had:Roethlisberger, Dunta, Vilma, or Wilfork.
Decision: Williams not the BPA at the pick.
why picked: likely becuase WR core was not panning out

2003: Charles ROgers
could have had:AJ, Marcus Trufant, Polamalu, or Larry Johnson.
Decision: Rogers not the BPA at pick.
why picked: need for a WR
2002: Joey Harrington
could have had: Roy Williams, Dwight Freeney, Pbuch(cmon had to!) Javon Walker, Ed Reed
Decision: Harrington not the BPA at pick.
why picked: need for a QB
2001: Jeff Backus
could have had:Will Allen, Deuce Mccalister, Todd Heap, Reggie Wayne
Decision: Backus not the BPA
why picked: needed an OT


Some people thought Joey Harrington was better than Carr, so he was arguably the BPA. Rogers was ranked higher than AJ and for very good reason. He is just as fast with better hands and I really wanted him over AJ. The only thing that you can say about Rogers is that he has been injured. Dont forget that Rogers had 3 TDs in his first 4 games as a rookie before he got the injury that he still hasnt gotten over, thats not a bust thats just a bad situation with a very talented player.

kastofsna
01-31-2006, 10:46 AM
We cannot afford to wait until the 4th round to address the defense. Bush is a great player in his own ways, and I could probally manage to cope with him on our team, but we need 2 O-line, FS, MLB, TE, DE. We will not find guys to start at those positions from late round picks.
you're not going to win the super bowl next year. so you're not going to fill every need in one draft. you're gonna see some late rounders starting probably

TheOgre
01-31-2006, 01:18 PM
DE would be our #1 need if the Texans switch to a 4-3 & you almost have to draft one of those similar to the LT because teams are unwilling to trade them plus they are expensive in free agency.

I was thinking this before the Reggie Bush lotto started this past season. This draft has the OLT (Ferguson) that could anchor our line for the next decade plus. We wouldn't have to worry about that position for a long time. Then in 2007, we could go after a pass-rusher (perhaps trade up to get one). The two biggest needs this team has had since day 1 are a stud LT and ***t-in-your-britches pass-rusher. I think you go with the LT this year because this draft is stocked full of good tackle prospects. You could even try to fill both needs by taking one in the 1st and the other in the 2nd.

HoustonFrog
01-31-2006, 01:26 PM
I was thinking this before the Reggie Bush lotto started this past season. This draft has the OLT (Ferguson) that could anchor our line for the next decade plus. We wouldn't have to worry about that position for a long time. Then in 2007, we could go after a pass-rusher (perhaps trade up to get one). The two biggest needs this team has had since day 1 are a stud LT and ***t-in-your-britches pass-rusher. I think you go with the LT this year because this draft is stocked full of good tackle prospects. You could even try to fill both needs by taking one in the 1st and the other in the 2nd.

That depth leads me to belive you can have the best of both worlds and have a playmaker on O with #1 AND get guys for the line. I don't think it has to be either or by using your #1 on a LT. Denver got their LT at #20 and evetyone else in lower rounds.

kastofsna
01-31-2006, 01:27 PM
there will be several really good o-line prospects by the time the 2nd round pick rolls around. even a few by the 3rd round

MorKnolle
01-31-2006, 01:35 PM
That depth leads me to belive you can have the best of both worlds and have a playmaker on O with #1 AND get guys for the line. I don't think it has to be either or by using your #1 on a LT. Denver got their LT at #20 and evetyone else in lower rounds.

True, but our horrendous defense needs help too. If we trade down, I'd prefer to see us go after Mario Williams to help our DL rather than going for D'Brick. So basically our draft plan should be about the same either way:
Option 1)
1st: Reggie Bush
2nd: best OL (hopefully Eric Winston falls, otherwise best OT or maybe interior OL)
3rd (a): interior OL/OT depending on 2nd round pick
3rd (b): DE
4th: DB/TE
5th, 6th, 7th: BPA at position of need

Option 2) (trade down to #4/5, add minimum of 2nd this year and 1st next year)
1st: Mario Williams
2nd (a): best OL (hopefully Eric Winston falls, otherwise best OT or maybe interior OL)
2nd (b): DB
3rd (a): interior OL/OT depending on 2nd round pick
3rd (b): TE
4th: LB/DB
5th, 6th, 7th: BPA at position of need

Plus in option 2 we could package a 2nd and 3rd or something like that to move back into the mid-late 1st to grab a better OL (maybe Winston if he's about to go there) or DB (maybe Huff or Jimmy Williams if they slip a little). This is also dependent on whether Mario is as athletic as some have made him sound and it looks like he will be a truly dominant pass-rushing DE in the mold of Julius Peppers, he has the size but I am not 100% he has comparable athleticism at this moment in time. If it doesn't look like he's going to fulfill that role of being a huge difference maker on defense, then I think drafting Bush would probably be the best option since trading down past the #8 pick or so to address OLine or whatever else is not very realistic, plus trading that far down and ignoring some of the great players/playmakers at the top of the draft would not be wise.

HoustonFrog
01-31-2006, 01:35 PM
If we take Bush, O-line, TE all in day one, that leaves just 1 PICK for defense out of our total 4 day one picks. Oh and in FA. Julian Peterson and John Abraham are the only unrestricted free agents on defense worth picking up, and I doubt we get either. The only other options is to use some of next years draft picks on restricted free agents.


Disagree. I think Will Witherspoon and Akin Adelye(sp) are two LBs that could immediately upgrade a D.

HoustonFrog
01-31-2006, 01:38 PM
True, but our horrendous defense needs help too. If we trade down, I'd prefer to see us go after Mario Williams to help our DL rather than going for D'Brick. So basically our draft plan should be about the same either way:

I said the same in another post in here. Completely agree. I prefer the Bush option but think if you do get the extra picks you go D playmaker. Playmakers are somethign we are lacking all around. IMHO you HAVE to get 1 with the top pick. You have a deep draft and other high picks to fill the need and get the best of both.