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View Full Version : This VY situation has happened before


Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 04:57 PM
Someone mentioned on ESPN about the Texans fans public outcry for the hometown hero quarterback and stated this situation happened before in Pittsburgh.

The uneducated "homer" fans of Pittsburgh were crying for the Steelers to draft the hometown hero Dan Marino (who went to Pitt), however Steeler brass ignored them and instead listened to their "experts" which opted them to go with Mark Malone as their QB.

While Marino was having a Hall of Fame career in Miami, the Steelers went through Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, just to name a few.

I guess this proves the fans are not ALWAYS wrong.

Grid
01-28-2006, 05:03 PM
no the fans arent always wrong. But they usually are when it comes to draft prospects.

Wolf
01-28-2006, 05:03 PM
Charles Rogers anyone?

Sportsfan
01-28-2006, 05:09 PM
'Nother VY thread in disguise. Damn, been duped by about 3 or 4 or those this week. :confused:

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 05:15 PM
'Nother VY thread in disguise. Damn, been duped by about 3 or 4 or those this week. :confused:

Disguise? LOL, I put VY in the title.

Marcus
01-28-2006, 05:45 PM
While Marino was having a Hall of Fame career in Miami, the Steelers went through Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, just to name a few.

Bad example there, good buddy! If the Texans draft Vince Young, we will have another Kordell Stewart on our hands.

No, thank You!:stirpot:

stevo3883
01-28-2006, 05:47 PM
Bad example there, good buddy! If the Texans draft Vince Young, we will have another Kordell Stewart on our hands.

No Thank You!

you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say Vince Young is like Slash?

thunderkyss
01-28-2006, 05:50 PM
Someone mentioned on ESPN about the Texans fans public outcry for the hometown hero quarterback and stated this situation happened before in Pittsburgh.

The uneducated "homer" fans of Pittsburgh were crying for the Steelers to draft the hometown hero Dan Marino (who went to Pitt), however Steeler brass ignored them and instead listened to their "experts" which opted them to go with Mark Malone as their QB.

While Marino was having a Hall of Fame career in Miami, the Steelers went through Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, just to name a few.

I guess this proves the fans are not ALWAYS wrong.

Good point, but if Houston passes on Vince, they won't be picking a QB.... that would stif the masses fo sho

Marcus
01-28-2006, 05:50 PM
you expect anyone to take you seriously when you say Vince Young is like Slash?

Coming from a longhorn fan? No, I don't suppose you would.

stevo3883
01-28-2006, 05:55 PM
Coming from a longhorn fan? No, I don't suppose you would.


no, coming from anyone that knows any a small amount about the sport of football.

its such a ridiculous and stupid comparison. Wow they were both black and can run, they must be the same, right?

big homey
01-28-2006, 05:57 PM
Someone mentioned on ESPN about the Texans fans public outcry for the hometown hero quarterback and stated this situation happened before in Pittsburgh.

The uneducated "homer" fans of Pittsburgh were crying for the Steelers to draft the hometown hero Dan Marino (who went to Pitt), however Steeler brass ignored them and instead listened to their "experts" which opted them to go with Mark Malone as their QB.

While Marino was having a Hall of Fame career in Miami, the Steelers went through Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, just to name a few.

I guess this proves the fans are not ALWAYS wrong.
This here is a different situation. They had a choice between 2 QB's, so it was just a matter of which one. What we're doing involves choosing between entirely different positions to change, and QB just isn't the one we happen to need.

travfrancis
01-28-2006, 06:00 PM
haha, man the vy haters are in all out beast-mode, they are like sharks circling their prey

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 06:00 PM
This here is a different situation. They had a choice between 2 QB's, so it was just a matter of which one. What we're doing involves choosing between entirely different positions to change, and QB just isn't the one we happen to need.

So the Texans need a running back? I thought Dom Davis was having a better career than David Carr.

TexanSam
01-28-2006, 06:09 PM
So the Texans need a running back? I thought Dom Davis was having a better career than David Carr.

The Texans don't really need a quarterback either... Vince Young won't do any better than Carr has with the talent he has around him. Trade down, get some extra picks and draft Ferguson. At least that'll be a step to having a decent O-line.

stevo3883
01-28-2006, 06:09 PM
haha, man the vy haters are in all out beast-mode, they are like sharks circling their prey


its funny, I want bush, but im also a longhorn so I will back up VY against hateful aggies.

There are probably more Anti-VY posts than pro-VY posts

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2006, 06:10 PM
Basically, the facts of the case are that in 1980 the Steelers picked Mark Malone as QB.

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/1980.html

A few years later came the hometown hero Dan Marino. Also note that 5 QBs were drafted before him.

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/1983.html

The situation is similiar in that the Steelers had a young QB that in thier mind had not been given an opportunity to prove that he was more than Just a Guy as a QB. The history from here should be better known.

Marcus
01-28-2006, 06:11 PM
haha, man the vy haters are in all out beast-mode, they are like sharks circling their prey

Seems to me that all the man-lovers brought this on themselves. Reap what you sow.

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2006, 06:14 PM
This thread is hanging by a thread as to whether or not it will last.

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 06:20 PM
Basically, the facts of the case are that in 1980 the Steelers picked Mark Malone as QB.

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/1980.html

A few years later came the hometown hero Dan Marino. Also note that 5 QBs were drafted before him.

http://www.drafthistory.com/years/1983.html

The situation is similiar in that the Steelers had young QB that in thier mind had not been given an opportunity to prove that he was more than Just a Guy as a QB. The history from here should be better known.

Good find, actually the situation is closer than I thought. I guess the Steelers having had Malone for 3 years thought that he just needed the right talent around him and were willing to give him more time. So they opted to draft Gabriel Rivera a DT out of Texas Tech. Since I never heard of Rivera I am assuming he didn't do a whole lot for them.

I am just curious when most of the Steeler fan base was screaming for Marino, how many Steeler fans were saying "We don't need a QB, we have Mark Malone!"?

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2006, 06:31 PM
Good find, actually the situation is closer than I thought. I guess the Steelers having had Malone for 3 years thought that he just needed the right talent around him and were willing to give him more time. So they opted to draft Gabriel Rivera a DT out of Texas Tech. Since I never heard of Rivera I am assuming he didn't do a whole lot for them.

I am just curious when most of the Steeler fan base was screaming for Marino, how many Steeler fans were saying "We don't need a QB, we have Mark Malone!"?

Actually, Rivera was a college all-American at Texas Tech whose pro career was cut short by health.

Edit: I want to say it was an auto accident or something off-the field. Basically, something I don't want to be flippant about.

big homey
01-28-2006, 07:02 PM
So the Texans need a running back? I thought Dom Davis was having a better career than David Carr.
If you didn't notice (avatar/sig), I'm in the trade down camp. But I do in fact think that Bush would be better for us than Young, although not as a pure RB.

And another thing: Marino never won the big one.

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 07:46 PM
I know people are annoyed by VY lovers.

And some people are annoyed by VY haters.

You know what annoys me? People incapable of supporting their positions on things with facts and analysis and rational thought. People who have to resort to ad hominems and ugliness and baseless sarcasm.

I know women have a reputation for being overly emotional and making illogical arguments and fighting unfair, but you know what? It is absolutely hilarious to me sometimes reading the mostly guys over here engaged in silly slap fights. It is like attending a funny sociology class. (Not all y'all are that way--you know who you are. :) )

I thought the original post was interesting. If you don't care for the post, it is completely possible to try to refute it with rational arguments. You know, maybe saying that things are different now with the salary cap. Or Marino shouldn't have been picked by the Steelers due to X, Y Z or whatever point you have. As I understand it from a friend of mine who lived in PA at the time, he said Marino wasn't picked because of drug rumors. FWIW.

BTW, the Kordell/VY comparison is weak. If you compare their college stats, VY's are way better. And he has better NFL QB size.

Anyway, I just wanted to say my say on that. Let's all agree on....

GO TEXANS!!!!

:texflag:

Wolf
01-28-2006, 07:53 PM
I would hate to see something like what happened with Jake Plummer (VY is no doubt better than Jake) but if we do like Arizona draft the hometown kid but can't get the talent around him.. well he gets booted out of the state.
(David Carr would probably be a better comparison to Jake except Carr isn't a homestate guy)

Napa Auto Parts
01-28-2006, 07:58 PM
this is something the Texans Hate if they betray the fans wich in several polls i have seen the masses want VY over Bush to and average of 75% percent the texans are gonna have to be in major PR Problems after the draft. not only for the time being but for years to come when david is out of the league in two more years or four you will have all the fans with the i told you so. i cant wait I told you so:stirpot:

Bronco Texan
01-28-2006, 08:08 PM
I just love the fact that all the VY lovers can tell the future. Hell why even draft VY?? Lets pay him 250million now is salary and endorsements. Give him 3 Superbowl rings. Put him at the tops of every record book, stat books, for every position. Plus lets just throw him in the Hall of Fame as the best football player ever!!!! Why does he even need to really play or prove himself? Lets just give it all to him now. Geez you guys make me sick. But hey that is why I still come back here isn't it.

TEXANRED
01-28-2006, 08:38 PM
haha, man the vy haters are in all out beast-mode, they are like sharks circling their prey
Well now you know what it is like to be a Carr Fan and having to deal with the Carr haters.

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 08:54 PM
And another thing: Marino never won the big one.

I honestly think he might have if he played in Pittsburgh. Some of those late 80's early 90's Steelers teams had everything except the QB position. The Steelers always had a great running game which the Dolphins always lacked. As good as those Steeler teams were, if you were going against them you always knew you had a chance because of their woeful QB's. Just think if you would have replaced Bubby Brister with Dan Marino?

BTW, I was trying to think of some of those great players that played on those Bubby Brister teams. I remember Barry Foster. Who was that monster TE they had back then?

Wolf
01-28-2006, 09:12 PM
I can see why they didn't pick Marino

Bradshaw was still there
Stoudt was there
and mark malone was there.

http://www.steelergridiron.com/history/allrosters/1983roster.html

http://www.steelergridiron.com/history/allrosters/1982roster.html

cunningham at TE??

awtysst
01-28-2006, 09:21 PM
I know people are annoyed by VY lovers.

And some people are annoyed by VY haters.

You know what annoys me? People incapable of supporting their positions on things with facts and analysis and rational thought. People who have to resort to ad hominems and ugliness and baseless sarcasm.

I know women have a reputation for being overly emotional and making illogical arguments and fighting unfair, but you know what? It is absolutely hilarious to me sometimes reading the mostly guys over here engaged in silly slap fights. It is like attending a funny sociology class. (Not all y'all are that way--you know who you are. :) )

I thought the original post was interesting. If you don't care for the post, it is completely possible to try to refute it with rational arguments. You know, maybe saying that things are different now with the salary cap. Or Marino shouldn't have been picked by the Steelers due to X, Y Z or whatever point you have. As I understand it from a friend of mine who lived in PA at the time, he said Marino wasn't picked because of drug rumors. FWIW.

BTW, the Kordell/VY comparison is weak. If you compare their college stats, VY's are way better. And he has better NFL QB size.

Anyway, I just wanted to say my say on that. Let's all agree on....

GO TEXANS!!!!

:texflag:

Well said! I could not have typed that out better myself!!!

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 09:34 PM
cunningham at TE??

Green maybe? I seem to remember the Steelers having a monster TE during Bubby's tenure. He used to tear up the Oilers a bit, I seem to remember his name being Green.

Wolf
01-28-2006, 09:57 PM
Eric Green?

BradK10
01-28-2006, 09:58 PM
Green maybe? I seem to remember the Steelers having a monster TE during Bubby's tenure. He used to tear up the Oilers a bit, I seem to remember his name being Green.

Eric Green...dude was a monster

Fighting Blue Hen
01-28-2006, 10:01 PM
Eric Green...dude was a monster

Yeah, that's who I was thinking about.

swtbound07
01-28-2006, 10:18 PM
I just love the fact that all the VY lovers can tell the future. Hell why even draft VY?? Lets pay him 250million now is salary and endorsements. Give him 3 Superbowl rings. Put him at the tops of every record book, stat books, for every position. Plus lets just throw him in the Hall of Fame as the best football player ever!!!! Why does he even need to really play or prove himself? Lets just give it all to him now. Geez you guys make me sick. But hey that is why I still come back here isn't it.


Everyone thinks they can tell the future..its called prognosticating. If that word is too big for you, its called guessing. The Reggie Bush lovers, and the vince young lovers all engage in an equal amount of this. I have been guilty of it on numerous occasions, but i really try to qualify it by maintaining that it is only my opinion, and i certainly have the potential to get wrong. The fun fact of it all is, the odds of vince being a bust versus reggie being a bust are EXACTLY THE SAME...50/50. The probability? thats where the variance comes into play.

jerek
01-29-2006, 12:21 AM
Someone mentioned on ESPN about the Texans fans public outcry for the hometown hero quarterback and stated this situation happened before in Pittsburgh.

The uneducated "homer" fans of Pittsburgh were crying for the Steelers to draft the hometown hero Dan Marino (who went to Pitt), however Steeler brass ignored them and instead listened to their "experts" which opted them to go with Mark Malone as their QB.

While Marino was having a Hall of Fame career in Miami, the Steelers went through Mark Malone, Bubby Brister, Kordell Stewart, Neil O'Donnell, Tommy Maddox, just to name a few.

I guess this proves the fans are not ALWAYS wrong.

Unfortunately, I don't know if you are simply making a case for the unpredictable nature of the draft (true statement), or if this is another one of those Vince-or-bust (please, not again) threads. I am going to assume the former.

Bronco Texan
01-29-2006, 01:09 AM
The fun fact of it all is, the odds of vince being a bust versus reggie being a bust are EXACTLY THE SAME...50/50. The probability? thats where the variance comes into play.

I don't know where you got your odds but I believe there is a greater chance for a 1st round QB to bust then a first round RB. Besides other than Peyton Manning please name me a first picked overall QB that didn't bust, and you cant say Eli because the jury is still out on him.

P.S. I am not a Reggie Bush supporter by the way. I am in favor of trading down and getting D'Brick.

stevo3883
01-29-2006, 01:10 AM
I don't know where you got your odds but I believe there is a greater chance for a 1st round QB to bust then a first round RB. Besides other than Peyton Manning please name me a first picked overall QB that didn't bust, and you cant say Eli because the jury is still out on him.

P.S. I am not a Reggie Bush supporter by the way. I am in favor of trading down and getting D'Brick.

john elway... good lord you're a self-titled bronco and you didnt know that?

MorKnolle
01-29-2006, 01:15 AM
john elway... good lord you're a self-titled bronco and you didnt know that?

you could add Carson Palmer too since he is starting to look like a superstar QB.

Bronco Texan
01-29-2006, 01:15 AM
john elway... good lord you're a self-titled bronco and you didnt know that?



It isn't that I didn't know it. I know the story of John. I was trying to prove a point. I'm sorry next time I will say other than Peyton you have to go back to the '83 draft to find a first overall QB that didn't bust.

Bronco Texan
01-29-2006, 01:17 AM
you could add Carson Palmer too since he is starting to look like a superstar QB.


Well we will have to see how well he comes back from his knee injury. Yes I add injuries to wether a player is a bust. Staying healthy is a big factor.

Mr. White
01-29-2006, 01:48 AM
. Besides other than Peyton Manning please name me a first picked overall QB that didn't bust, and you cant say Eli because the jury is still out on him.

There's a lot more that aren't busts than are:

John Elway
Vinny Testaverde
Troy Aikman
Drew Bledsoe
David Carr (maybe not Hall of Fame, but not a BUST)
Michael Vick
Carson Palmer
Eli Manning (The verdict is in. If you take a team to the playoffs you are in NO WAY a bust.)

OFFICIAL BUSTS

Jeff George
Tim Couch

Maybe we really need to define what a bust is. In actuality, they're pretty rare (IMHO.)

FirstTexansFan
01-29-2006, 02:30 AM
So they opted to draft Gabriel Rivera a DT out of Texas Tech. Since I never heard of Rivera I am assuming he didn't do a whole lot for them.

One of the best players Tech ever turned out. Car accident left him a quadraplegic. I kinda feel like the cavemen in the insurance commercial...er...maybe next time you'll do a little research? :)

thunderkyss
01-29-2006, 07:12 AM
Everyone thinks they can tell the future..its called prognosticating. If that word is too big for you, its called guessing. The Reggie Bush lovers, and the vince young lovers all engage in an equal amount of this. I have been guilty of it on numerous occasions, but i really try to qualify it by maintaining that it is only my opinion, and i certainly have the potential to get wrong. The fun fact of it all is, the odds of vince being a bust versus reggie being a bust are EXACTLY THE SAME...50/50. The probability? thats where the variance comes into play.


don't forget the Carr will take us to the SuperBowl camp...... they're guilty of Prognosticating also................ we all are.. that's what happens, when your team goes 2-14. Some folks jump ship, and become Bronco fans, Steeler Fans, or Seahawk fans. The rest prognosticate, and wait for the draft.

thunderkyss
01-29-2006, 07:17 AM
I don't know where you got your odds but I believe there is a greater chance for a 1st round QB to bust then a first round RB. Besides other than Peyton Manning please name me a first picked overall QB that didn't bust, and you cant say Eli because the jury is still out on him.

P.S. I am not a Reggie Bush supporter by the way. I am in favor of trading down and getting D'Brick.


Using your argument, we've got to accept the fact that David Carr is more than likely a bust. As you say, the odds are highly in favor of it, and what are the odds, that a team like ours would successfully select a franchise QB witht the first pick overall, with their first pick ever?? Probability makes it less likely that David will truly become a franchise QB. Especially when you factor in how many players we've selected that are bona-fide starters on our team.

swtbound07
01-29-2006, 01:23 PM
it was just a small technical detail on my point....odds are defined as the opportunity for something to happen, given a set of circumstances.....logically there are only 2 choices, sucess or failure, so one of these will be the case. in that situation, the "odds" of one of those choices happening is exactly 50/50, or 1 out of 2. Probability is where you get into the technical mathmatical manipulations of what choice will happen more often than another. Thats my semantics lesson for the day.

Texans>Colts
01-29-2006, 01:27 PM
The Texans don't really need a quarterback either... Vince Young won't do any better than Carr has with the talent he has around him. Trade down, get some extra picks and draft Ferguson. At least that'll be a step to having a decent O-line.

Finally some1 gets it:yahoo: :homer: :redtowel: :ok: We need a o-line. Carr needs more time in the pocket. He will b good if he didn't have D-Line men all over his face just about every play. I would trade down(like u said) and get D'Brick 2. And yes we will get extra picks on the 1st day which is nice. We could use another o-line men, or some1 on the Defensive side

run-david-run
01-29-2006, 02:24 PM
haha, man the vy haters are in all out beast-mode, they are like sharks circling their prey
Yeah, I can really feel an anit-VY atmosphere on these boards..wow..what a terrible comment, really, where did that come from? Oh, by the way, WERE NOT DRAFTING VINCE!!!

run-david-run
01-29-2006, 02:26 PM
Good find, actually the situation is closer than I thought. I guess the Steelers having had Malone for 3 years thought that he just needed the right talent around him and were willing to give him more time. So they opted to draft Gabriel Rivera a DT out of Texas Tech. Since I never heard of Rivera I am assuming he didn't do a whole lot for them.

I am just curious when most of the Steeler fan base was screaming for Marino, how many Steeler fans were saying "We don't need a QB, we have Mark Malone!"?
Wow, they drafted him a DT!!! How lucky he is, Im sure he really apreciated that rise in talent on the offense!!!