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View Full Version : MERRIL HODGE on Vince Young


Texas_Heat
01-27-2006, 09:17 PM
He's saying he has watched game film on vince and say's "vince would be a 1st round pick if he was going as a reciever".He states that once NFL teams watch his game film he will fall to the second round.

Grid
01-27-2006, 09:19 PM
was this on TV or can you link us to an article?.. id like to be able to quote this :)

Keldar
01-27-2006, 09:19 PM
Oh brother, here we go with the Hodge lynching.:rolleyes:

D-ReK
01-27-2006, 09:23 PM
That's a very interesting opinion, but I doubt it's accurate...If guys like Jason Campbell, Patrick Ramsey, Kyle Boller, and JP Losman can be first rounders, I don't see why Young won't be...He has a much higher upside than any of them...That said, I would take him in a heartbeat at 33...

Tulip
01-27-2006, 09:34 PM
So he's admitting that no one teams (and apparently no media) have actually watched game film of Vince? Quelle surprise.

Maybe he should call Nick Saban and asks what he thinks about Vince as a WR now.

Texas_Heat
01-27-2006, 09:42 PM
Can't find a link, but He said it.

it's on Espn boards too.
http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=821&threadID=3089940&lastPostID=18927895

D-ReK
01-27-2006, 09:49 PM
http://forums.espn.go.com/espn/thread?forumID=821&threadID=3089940&lastPostID=18927895

:offtopic , but man there sure are some a-holes on that board...Really makes me appreciate what we have here :grouphug: ...

threetoedpete
01-27-2006, 10:00 PM
He's saying he has watched game film on vince and say's "vince would be a 1st round pick if he was going as a reciever".He states that once NFL teams watch his game film he will fall to the second round.
Thank YOU ! Hopefuly we won't be in this position again, picking #1 over all. I knew my eyes weren't lieing. Don't be surprise if he falls like a rock. I'm rewatching game tapes to see what I'm missing. figguring I'm getting old, driving myself nutz..he he. He is a rare athelete. and he has the chance to be something special. But it's going to take a lot of time. Kubes only has four years to get her done. If we take VY I'll suppoprt the pick. Just keep buying those tickets VY fans so I don't get my sunday ticket blacked out, lol.
gonna be a while befor those scalpers are happy.

Coach C.
01-27-2006, 10:01 PM
I think Vince will be a better version of Randall Cunningham, which is very good. A guy that tried to put his team on his shoulders constantly, but never really did anything, because he did not have a team around him. Discount the Morten Anderson miss. Either way Hodge is right though if you watch Vince's gametape, you see that he has a way to go, but he is no were near a second rounder. If he would have been in Mike Vick's draft Vince would have been the number 1 pick. I think this draft puts him as 3.

Grid
01-27-2006, 10:09 PM
I said before that I think he could slide to the bottom of the top 10.. there is alot of hype though and he has quality intangibles (leadership, confidence, etc..etc..).. so who knows. I think second round is a bit much, but I wouldnt be surprised to see him slide.

edo783
01-27-2006, 10:23 PM
I think Vince will be a better version of Randall Cunningham, which is very good. A guy that tried to put his team on his shoulders constantly, but never really did anything, because he did not have a team around him. Discount the Morten Anderson miss. Either way Hodge is right though if you watch Vince's gametape, you see that he has a way to go, but he is no were near a second rounder. If he would have been in Mike Vick's draft Vince would have been the number 1 pick. I think this draft puts him as 3.

The issue as I see it with VY is that to make it work for him an offense would have to be made up for him (scouts and a couple of coaches have said that). What that means is that something that isn't being used now in the NFL would have to be created with zero garantee that such an offense would even work. The coaches in the NFL are conservative by nature and I very much doubt that they would climb out on a very suspect limb to do something that no one else has done just so some rookie QB could do his thing and its almost impossible to imagine a new, 1st time coach trying that. Can you imagine how his career would go if that blew up on him? He would never get a chance to be anything but a water boy after that. Add to that concerns about VY ability to assimilate a difficult offense (had to have the simple zone read dumbed down for him) and some reports that he wouldn't follow Mack Browns coaching and you have a situation where, while he may be an interesting athlete, there is a more than modest possibilty he could go much lower in the draft than some expect. With Cutler now in the picture, the two most likely QB clubs, NO and Titans, may opt to take SAFER and quicker routs and if that happens and NYJ think their OK with Pennington, VY could drop a long way, like Rogers did last year.

Afrokid
01-28-2006, 07:51 AM
i think college players shouldn't give opinions about other college players. Do they realize that they are in college and not the pros? Hodge might go into the NFL and totally suck. While vince might redefine the QB position, or vice versa. So why cant all college players keep their mouths shut ^_^ What would really be funny if they end up on the same team o.o

Huge
01-28-2006, 07:55 AM
I believe you're thinking of a different Hodge.

Merrill Hodge (the one that apparently made the comments) has been retired from the NFL for a number of years.

nunusguy
01-28-2006, 08:21 AM
He's saying he has watched game film on vince and say's "vince would be a 1st round pick if he was going as a reciever".He states that once NFL teams watch his game film he will fall to the second round.
The obvious player to compare VY with is Matt Jones. Very simply, how does
VY rank as a passer with Jones and his college career as a passing QB in Arkansas ? Jones was of course drafted in the second half of the 1st round
as a WR. Was Jones a better passer at Arkansas than VY has been at Texas ? If VY was no better passer than Jones, then Hodge clearly has a point.

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 08:37 AM
The obvious player to compare VY with is Matt Jones. Very simply, how does
VY rank as a passer with Jones and his college career as a passing QB in Arkansas ? Jones was of course drafted in the second half of the 1st round
as a WR. Was Jones a better passer at Arkansas than VY has been at Texas ? If VY was no better passer than Jones, then Hodge clearly has a point.


This was discussed before--VY is way better than Jones:

Previous discussion of Jones v. Young (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=260032#post260032)

From a statistical standpoint, Matt Jones and Vince Young in their last year of college aren't even close:

Vince Young (last college season), Drafted ???? 6 5 230 lbs

3036 passing yards
65.2 completion percentage
325 attempts for 212 completions, 9.3 av yards per attempt
26 passing TDs with 10 INTs
155 rushes for 1050 yards, 6.8 av yards per attempt, 12 rushing TDs

Matt Jones (last college season), Drafted 21st (round 1) 6'6" 242 lbs

2073 passing yards
57.2 completion percentage
264 attempts for 151 completions, 7.9 av yards per attempt
15 passing TDs with 12 INTs
83 rushes for 622 yards, 7.5 av yards per attempt, 6 rushing TDs


I don't see why this is even a point. VY had the best regular season completion percentage out of all division I QBs, the first guy to go over 3000 yards passing, and 1000 yards running (even after being pulled out of a lot of games because they scored too much too quickly), why the heck would he ever want to play WR???

It is a peculiar point of view to me. People said the same sorts of things about Steve McNair's development, wondering how he would do with more complicated NFL defenses and higher quality players he would be facing, and wondered how he would make it in the NFL--and his QB stats have been pretty consistently good throughout his NFL career.

Spoda
01-28-2006, 08:38 AM
first ..hodge was an nfl player..he played for his beloved steelers...hes on that nfl edge with jaws and suzy kolber on espn....2nd...if everyone would just take a deep breath...take down the burnt orange flag....pretend vince is not from houston....everyone should realize that out of the 6 studs vince IS the most risky pick...i know he has huuuuge upside....but if you were really going to put your own cash on it...with no odds..vince is too risky...i would say brick mario hawk are sure fore pros...maybe not the superstar that vick could be..but really good pros...leinart seems to be not flashy but not as risky...he did torch the texas D...and bush while i don't want him seems to be at the very least a sneak attack screening slanting monster...but vince is just too damn risky to use the #1 pick in a draft that has so many other options..oh ya and there's carr

Spoda
01-28-2006, 08:42 AM
in fairness to matt jones VS vince comparison..my wifes whole family is from the inbred state so i watched every painstaking moment of arkansas season...he had no talent around him...none...you think texas had no receivers?? the only player he had was hobbs the HB..and he was hurt..a lot
...i think vince will play qb...maybe he'll be great..maybe not...but i think we need a player...someone who can't bust...or at least has a better than most chance not to..and that's mario/hawk/brick...IMO

Tale Gator
01-28-2006, 08:45 AM
I'm waiting on William 'Refrigerator' Perry's opinion on were Vince should go in the draft.

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 08:54 AM
in fairness to matt jones VS vince comparison..my wifes whole family is from the inbred state so i watched every painstaking moment of arkansas season...he had no talent around him...none...you think texas had no receivers?? the only player he had was hobbs the HB..and he was hurt..a lot
...i think vince will play qb...maybe he'll be great..maybe not...but i think we need a player...someone who can't bust...or at least has a better than most chance not to..and that's mario/hawk/brick...IMO

It is funny. Before the season, people thought that VY would have a bad junior year because his receiver talent decreased from the year before and his receivers were not very experienced.

There are no players who "can't bust." I understand the people who think that the Texans do not need VY, but personally I think he will be a great NFL player and there is nothing in his college career that really suggests otherwise.


Oh, and I would like to add that you can't trust the NFL opinions of somebody who has Hodge's hair. It makes you question their judgment. :)

nunusguy
01-28-2006, 09:46 AM
first ..hodge was an nfl player..he played for his beloved steelers...hes on that nfl edge with jaws and suzy kolber on espn....2nd...if everyone would just take a deep breath...take down the burnt orange flag....pretend vince is not from houston....everyone should realize that out of the 6 studs vince IS the most risky pick...i know he has huuuuge upside....but if you were really going to put your own cash on it...with no odds..vince is too risky...i would say brick mario hawk are sure fore pros...maybe not the superstar that vick could be..but really good pros...leinart seems to be not flashy but not as risky...he did torch the texas D...and bush while i don't want him seems to be at the very least a sneak attack screening slanting monster...but vince is just too damn risky to use the #1 pick in a draft that has so many other options..oh ya and there's carr
Very good points Spoda. And you nailed it when you emphasized you do not
go experimenting with the #1 overall pick in the NFL Draft, no matter the potential of the player or no matter if he's a favorite son of the teams city.
And if you have to go with one guy, take down side into consideration as
much as potential when considering your choice.
Clearly the safest, most prudent, and therefor wisest move would to be
trade it for multiple first day picks and thereby eliminate the risk of a
of getting nothing from your pick because a single player could be a bust.

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 09:51 AM
I would not be surprised if VY slips to the 8-14 positions with a bad combine.

BREAZE
01-28-2006, 09:59 AM
Hodge forgot to mention we have the #1 pick in the second round. "Carr deep to VY...scores!!!" Yeah, I think Hodge is doping...

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 09:59 AM
I would not be surprised if VY slips to the 8-14 positions with a bad combine.

I dunno. In a league where Mike Vick is picked #1 with worse stats and worse NFL size, it is hard to picture him going so low.

Though it might be bad financially for him in the short term being picked 8-14, it would be better for him to be on a better team. We would never hear the end of it, even if it were a situation where he gets on a good team and succeeds but mighta struggled playing here. Maybe like Roethlisberger.

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 10:07 AM
I dunno. In a league where Mike Vick is picked #1 with worse stats and worse NFL size, it is hard to picture him going so low.

Though it might be bad financially for him in the short term being picked 8-14, it would be better for him to be on a better team. We would never hear the end of it, even if it were a situation where he gets on a good team and succeeds but mighta struggled playing here. Maybe like Roethlisberger.

I like VY I really do, but if he slips anywhere along the way to the draft - background check, bad drill, bad interview, etc. I believe he will get dinged more than any other. Here in Texas we know Vince, however, to others he went through the roof in a short time span. He will get torn down if he slips.

And yes I think he has it in him not to slip. The kid oozes IT in every action, word and smile he presents.

nunusguy
01-28-2006, 10:13 AM
The kid oozes IT in every action, word and smile he presents.
"IT" ? I dunno...I didn't realize he was auditioning for movie roles in Hollywood.

Spoda
01-28-2006, 10:19 AM
plenty of players had IT in college...vick definitely had it...but the chargers traded IT for LT and brees...hmmm...not a tough decision there..i feel like this is going to happen to us...sure vince could be vick....but what if we get brick/hawk/mario...a second this year..TE or OL..and a 1 next year?? i know of 2 stud WR's that should be coming out

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 10:29 AM
"IT" ? I dunno...I didn't realize he was auditioning for movie roles in Hollywood.

I didn't either, do you have a link?

dirty steve
01-28-2006, 10:38 AM
Oh, and I would like to add that you can't trust the NFL opinions of somebody who has Hodge's hair. It makes you question their judgment. :)

what does that have to do with anything?

Huge
01-28-2006, 10:47 AM
It would be a moment of embarrasment for Young to fall in the draft but I'm almost hoping that happens.

The further he falls, the better the chances are he'll land on a team that'll give him the best opportunity to succeed. Now if he fell all the way to 18th, I'd be on the edge of my seat for the 15 minutes of that team being on the clock.

Tale Gator
01-28-2006, 10:58 AM
what does that have to do with anything?


Hair styles are extremely important in prognosticating.

http://i1.tinypic.com/mrtvnl.jpg

Would you trust this guy's opinion on where Vince will end up in the draft? :hmmm:

I think not.

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 11:17 AM
Hair styles are extremely important in prognosticating.

http://i1.tinypic.com/mrtvnl.jpg

Would you trust this guy's opinion on where Vince will end up in the draft? :hmmm:

I think not.

Absolutely that guys is oozing with IT. :cool:

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 11:23 AM
what does that have to do with anything?

Next time instead of putting a smiley face after a sentence like that, I will put a billboard up that says "This is supposed to be funny."

Though I will say the same thing about Kiper too. heh. :) :) :)

beerlover
01-28-2006, 11:25 AM
in fairness to matt jones VS vince comparison..my wifes whole family is from the inbred state so i watched every painstaking moment of arkansas season...he had no talent around him...none...you think texas had no receivers?? the only player he had was hobbs the HB..and he was hurt..a lot
...i think vince will play qb...maybe he'll be great..maybe not...but i think we need a player...someone who can't bust...or at least has a better than most chance not to..and that's mario/hawk/brick...IMO

thats pretty accurate, I was shocked when he was drafted so high to play WR, I thought he would be above average QB prospect for some team to develop, his ability to make reads and decision making where not even close to Vince Young but he threw a decent ball & looked good in the pocket, I watched him alot too because of the human road grader Shawn Andrews former RT who was drafted 16th overall in 2004 by Philly. Matt really missed him his senior season and little to no time (sound familar?) that being said Matt needs to become a workout junkie and add more strength to move to H-back fulltime.

Vince greatest intangible is his leadership, combined with footwork and accuracy. I know this is a different sport but he reminds me a awful lot of Magic Johnson when he came to the NBA & all he did his first season was win the NBA championship carrying the Lakers on his back :)

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 11:32 AM
Vince greatest intangible is his leadership, combined with footwork and accuracy. I know this is a different sport but he reminds me a awful lot of Magic Johnson when he came to the NBA & all he did his first season was win the NBA championship carrying the Lakers on his back :)

There are few players that have the ability to raise the level of their team mates game. We have seen it unfold in many sports and it is truly the great ones that can do it in college and in the Pros. VY has it, but will it transfer to the NFL? I believe so. To me this is his greatest asset.

Double Barrel
01-28-2006, 11:40 AM
I like Merril Hodge, but that doesn't mean I hang on his every word like gold. It's an opinion, and we've all got one (or two).

I doubt VY falls below the top 10. Based on hype alone and his Rose Bowl performance (along with his entire body of work), I'd actually be surprised if he's not in the top 5 draft picks.

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2006, 12:04 PM
There are few players that have the ability to raise the level of their team mates game. We have seen it unfold in many sports and it is truly the great ones that can do it in college and in the Pros. VY has it, but will it transfer to the NFL? I believe so. To me this is his greatest asset.

If you break down Vince on pure QB or even passing skills then there are legitimate questions, but on the intangibles of leadership and making plays at the biggest time then Young scores off of the charts. I have sen some scout/GM rank this ability highest skill among QBs versus the pure mechanics of throwing, running, etc.

TheOgre
01-28-2006, 12:23 PM
I think Vince will be a better version of Randall Cunningham, which is very good. A guy that tried to put his team on his shoulders constantly, but never really did anything, because he did not have a team around him. Discount the Morten Anderson miss.

Just to set the record straight, it was Gary Anderson who missed the FG for Minnesota in the NFC Championship Game in 1998. Morten Andersen (with an "e") was on the winning team in that game.

thunderkyss
01-28-2006, 12:48 PM
I dunno. In a league where Mike Vick is picked #1 with worse stats and worse NFL size, it is hard to picture him going so low.

Though it might be bad financially for him in the short term being picked 8-14, it would be better for him to be on a better team. We would never hear the end of it, even if it were a situation where he gets on a good team and succeeds but mighta struggled playing here. Maybe like Roethlisberger.


If anything, Michael Vick being picked @ #1 overall, may very well hurt Vince's chance of going at #1.......... Untill people like Hodge get their heads out of their rump, and see that Vince is not what Michael Vick was, but what everyone was hoping Vick would be by now in his NFL Career.

But then again, alot of folks are still very pleased with what Vick puts on the field every sunday he plays.
Vince IMHO is a better prospect than McNabb, Culpepper, Rothlesberger, Carr, Brooks, etc..... and, I am not from Houston, and couldn't care less where Vince is from. The man's a winner & a leader......... I think we can use more guys like him on our team.

do I want Vince in a Texans uniform.................... Yes
do I want Brick in a Texans uniform................... . Yes
do I want Reggie bush in a Texans uniform.............Yes


If I had to pick from thos three, who I wanted most..........I'd pick Vince.

Spoda
01-28-2006, 12:54 PM
can i ask someone a question??? first off...vince could be great...ok i said it..but he could bust just as easily.....butwhen did all this leadership stuff come out?? i don't remember any of this before the rose bowl..ya he was good in pop warner and high school...so what...so he's been this amazing leader for a year now...why?? cause he told some jokes in the huddle? cause he was faster than other college players? that makes him a TRUE leader? i am just curious if anyone knows the root of this...i never heard of this until recently..we weren't swamped with "true leader " threads until after the rose bowl this year....just wondering aloud

ArlingtonTexan
01-28-2006, 01:07 PM
can i ask someone a question??? first off...vince could be great...ok i said it..but he could bust just as easily.....butwhen did all this leadership stuff come out?? i don't remember any of this before the rose bowl..ya he was good in pop warner and high school...so what...so he's been this amazing leader for a year now...why?? cause he told some jokes in the huddle? cause he was faster than other college players? that makes him a TRUE leader? i am just curious if anyone knows the root of this...i never heard of this until recently..we weren't swamped with "true leader " threads until after the rose bowl this year....just wondering aloud

I am not going to hunt the posts down, but pre-Rose Bowl there was a decent sized faction of people who watched how his teammates responded to him and his general presence on the field. In fact, the Rose Bowl confirmed what these posters had been saying. In relative terms Young got posts here and there during the season, but the number grew out of control after his Rose Bowl act.

Kaiser Toro
01-28-2006, 01:14 PM
can i ask someone a question??? first off...vince could be great...ok i said it..but he could bust just as easily.....butwhen did all this leadership stuff come out?? i don't remember any of this before the rose bowl..ya he was good in pop warner and high school...so what...so he's been this amazing leader for a year now...why?? cause he told some jokes in the huddle? cause he was faster than other college players? that makes him a TRUE leader? i am just curious if anyone knows the root of this...i never heard of this until recently..we weren't swamped with "true leader " threads until after the rose bowl this year....just wondering aloud

If you did not follow UT then you would have not heard it in the press. The national media was screaming USC all season so it was drowned out. But it began in 2004 in Austin when UT played against Okla St and they were down 35-7 late in the 1st half. After that game everyone knew it that the team became Vince's. UT has not lost since and have been down in many games. There has never been a doubt with VY back there that any deficit can be overcome.