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Errant Hothy
01-27-2006, 03:28 PM
Yes I know the Combine is still a ways off, but here is the first piece of relevant news to it:

NCAA | Young will throw at the NFL Combine
Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:46:14 -0800

Chip Brown, of the Dallas Morning News, reports former Texas QB Vince Young will throw and meet with teams at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis Feb. 22-28, according to his agent, Major Adams. Adams said Friday, Jan. 27, that Young won't run or lift weights at the Combine because "teams already know he can run and do all that."

I wished he would run in Indy, but maybe he's afraid to run?

Please no bashing, I always am suspicious of players who dont run in Indy; becasue the way I see it is if you don't run at Indy what are you hiding. I makes me double suspicious because runnign is one of VY's stronger points of his game. I am interested to see how he thorws as it'll be teh determinig factor in where he is drafted.

Blake
01-27-2006, 03:31 PM
I agree. What the hell does Vince need to run for? Youve seen him on saturdays. He is f-ing fast. He doesnt need to risk tearing something, or straining something to back up his game tape.

Glacier
01-27-2006, 03:37 PM
having a bad time can ruin a prospect. smart business decision on not running.

houstonhurricane
01-27-2006, 03:51 PM
It may be a smart decision in one sense, but for his sake I think he needs to demonstrate that speed in front of all of the NFL personnel because that is his strength. Cutler and Leinart may out-throw him at the combines, so he may up his stock if he reminds those in attendance about his other attributes. Just my opinion.

beerlover
01-27-2006, 03:57 PM
having a bad time can ruin a prospect. smart business decision on not running.

This is reality, however he might just run on Texas Pro-Day, you will just have to wait and see :)

Errant Hothy
01-27-2006, 04:19 PM
This is reality, however he might just run on Texas Pro-Day, you will just have to wait and see :)

True but running at the combine gives teh truest number since everybody will run on the same track. The numbers from pro days are horrible inaccurate, see any Virgina Tech prospect in the last 5 to 7 years.

Plenty of guys in teh pros run at Indy during the season, it's a fair peice fo turf. Harrison, Wayne and Edge seem to out run people just fine on it.

Lets say VY was to run a 4.5 (I do think he is faster, but stranger things have happened) how bad to you think it would affect his draft status.

Huge
01-27-2006, 04:33 PM
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?

Errant Hothy
01-27-2006, 04:40 PM
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?

Because we've heard that VY will CHANGE the game, with his ability to both RUN and throw. That he is teh next evelution of the QB. That he is lock for the HOF.

I'm not really concerned with the actual number, unless it's lineman like. I'm more concern that his agent says he doen't need to run. I like to measurable performance numbers on guys my team is going ot draft. Also feels like VY and agent are coping a bit of an attitude ala "VY is to good to run at teh combine."

Just my take.

beerlover
01-27-2006, 04:46 PM
40 speeds are important to some postions like WR or CB. QB is not even for Vince Young, but if your interested I believe he has stated that he ran a 4.42 last year, thats good enough for me :ok:

AustinJB
01-27-2006, 04:57 PM
I wished he would run in Indy, but maybe he's afraid to run?

Please no bashing, I always am suspicious of players who dont run in Indy; becasue the way I see it is if you don't run at Indy what are you hiding. I makes me double suspicious because runnign is one of VY's stronger points of his game. I am interested to see how he thorws as it'll be teh determinig factor in where he is drafted.

See, this is what I don't understand from the people that are unimpressed w/ VY and his potential ability in the NFL.

In all of the VY discussions that I have read, no one has questioned his running ability. Most of the knocks against him by many of you is that, "he's going to run around like M.Vick and that won't cut it in the NFL" type arguments. So he has nothing to prove in that regard. BTW, what are the chances that Bush runs at the combine? Zero...everyone knows he is fast and can run w/ the ball in open space. He will run at USC's pro-day just like VY will more than likely run at UT's pro-day. No chance that Bush will risk having a "bad" day at the combine and run a 4.40 (still very good) instead of a 4.28 and cause the Texans to think twice.

The question that the majority of people have regarding VY is his throwing abiltiy. Those of us that believe he does throw well and have a strong arm feel like we have already seen those things from him. Since that is his biggest question, I think it is a very gutsy and needed tryout for him. He knows that having a poor showing will affect his position in the draft. But that's just how he is. He is not phased or worried (I know this will be bashed as undying praise for the "almighty VY", but I'm just stating what I've seen from him.) The bigger the stage is, and the more pressure thereis, the better he performs. That is just his poise that he showed in every game. When the game is on the line, he is as calm and confident as you can get; he just goes out there and does it. That is why I'm convinced that he will pleasantly surprise people w/ his throwing ability and accuracy at the combine. As I've said before, I can't wait for the combine so he can silence some of the critics.

My point is, most agreed he could run. Some thought he couldn't pass. Now he is going out there to show you that he can throw too, and you are questioning him for not running? Come on people, the man is trying to take some of the "you can't pass" assessments away from his resume. What more do you want? If he did run and ran better than some of the running backs, and threw as well as Leinart & Cutler, you'd still say that he is a running QB just b/c Leinart & Cutler don't have the same running ability.:ok:

4Texans
01-27-2006, 05:23 PM
I agree that the combine and pro days don't show what you can do on the field, but if a Team is looking to draft you and sign you to a multi million dollar contract, and they ask you to run and lift,,,,,,,,,,,, then I think you should run and lift.

wags
01-27-2006, 05:32 PM
I love talking about the draft and prospects, but way too much is made of a 40 time(and bench reps) and there are always various 40 times reported for each prospect. I remember last year when people were saying Thomas Davis was too slow to play safety because of a 40 time. Then a few weeks later after a pro-day workout he is suddenly fast enough. 40 times don't mean a whole lot in my book and I hope they are taken with a grain of salt this offseason. :twocents:

infantrycak
01-27-2006, 05:38 PM
Wags, what is up with Davis? Didn't see him on the field much this year. I expected him to have be a fast guy into the starting job.

wags
01-27-2006, 05:50 PM
Wags, what is up with Davis? Didn't see him on the field much this year. I expected him to have be a fast guy into the starting job.

Got benched after game 1 for McCree and McCree never gave it back. Davis played a "joker" role in nickel packages and always played 3rd and long. Maybe the PAnthers were scared to break up the chemistry half way through the season because McCree is not as good against the run and made Julius Jones look like a stud in the Dallas game. Davis might switch to LB if they don't re-sign Witherspoon.

As for highlights he was the first guy to sack Brady this year... yes the ever elusive master side-stepper Brady. He was designated as a "spy" on Vick the entire game and limited Vick to 36 yards. The one lowlight I guess is when he almost killed Terrence Murphy on MNF.

chuckm
01-27-2006, 06:04 PM
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?


It's not relevant to Matt Leinhart because he's a pure passer .... Young it's VERY relevant because his game is predicated upon his mobility ....

dtran04
01-27-2006, 06:09 PM
The throwing will be HUGE. If he does just average, the flavor of the week will be turn into Cutler and Young's hype will start to die down (outside of Houston that is). It will be very interesting. People are already claiming Cutler to be a better prospect than both Leinart and Young.

Huge
01-27-2006, 06:36 PM
Because we've heard that VY will CHANGE the game, with his ability to both RUN and throw. That he is teh next evelution of the QB. That he is lock for the HOF.

I'm not really concerned with the actual number, unless it's lineman like. I'm more concern that his agent says he doen't need to run. I like to measurable performance numbers on guys my team is going ot draft. Also feels like VY and agent are coping a bit of an attitude ala "VY is to good to run at teh combine."

Just my take.
If you're looking for a number as a measurable, what range are you looking/hoping for?

If Young clocks a 4.6 at UT's Pro Day and you were hoping for a 4.4...does that .2 seconds of a difference change anything? If so...what?

Think about the actual difference .2 of a second is and then think how that translates to a football field. Then if you can explain how it's relevent, I'd really like to hear it.

40 speeds are important to some postions like WR or CB. QB is not even for Vince Young, but if your interested I believe he has stated that he ran a 4.42 last year, thats good enough for me
Sorry, lover of beer...I disagree.

Top 10 Rushers All-Time:
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Jim Brown
Marcus Allen
Franco Harris
Thurman Thomas

Top 10 Receivers All-Time:
Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Irving Fryar
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Marvin Harrison

How many of those 20 would've been considered "burners" in their prime? Half? Maybe?

Dr. Toro
01-27-2006, 07:35 PM
My guess is that Vince feels like passing ability is what he really needs to show at the combine. Nothing wrong with preparing and focusing on what people perceive to be your weakness. He might lift and run at Texas pro-day... I think he views himself as having nothing to gain by running at the combine or at all for that matter. It makes sense to run/lift it will be at the pro day, in friendly confines, on a fast track where you knows you'll put up a good number.

As a QB, how often do you run from a stopped position? Never. So I don't think the NFL folks care too much about his 40. They look at different numbers for different positions... I remember people were more impressed at Roy Williams (DB) "catchup speed" (the 20 yard split from the second half of the sprint) than they were discouraged by his slower 40 time.

beerlover
01-27-2006, 07:47 PM
Sorry, lover of beer...I disagree.

Top 10 Rushers All-Time:
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Jim Brown
Marcus Allen
Franco Harris
Thurman Thomas

Top 10 Receivers All-Time:
Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Irving Fryar
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Marvin Harrison

How many of those 20 would've been considered "burners" in their prime? Half? Maybe?

I catch your drift but I did not include RB's though a higher pick like Reggie Bush would be more important if for no other reason than to validate the use of a # 1 overall or top 5 pick. Braylon Edwards was not a "burner" either and he was the top WR chosen last season because of his ability to seperate and make the catch. however look at the CB's who's stock rose after the combines or individual workouts, Dunta Robinson being one.

Come to think of it Jason Babin stock rose in large part because of his 40 & shuttle times so speed applies to the hybred position's too like OLB.

Errant Hothy
01-27-2006, 09:31 PM
If you're looking for a number as a measurable, what range are you looking/hoping for?

If Young clocks a 4.6 at UT's Pro Day and you were hoping for a 4.4...does that .2 seconds of a difference change anything? If so...what?

Think about the actual difference .2 of a second is and then think how that translates to a football field. Then if you can explain how it's relevent, I'd really like to hear it.

As I said unless it's lineman like I don't care.

I'm more concerned with the agent's comments and his lack of desire to show what is one of his best assests. See the 80 yarder against Okie State.

I've seen plenty of film on VY, I know he's fast. But if we're going to spend teh #1 pick on anybody I want all the data, regardless if it's irrelevant or not.

I'll be saying the same thing if Reggie deciedes to not run in Indy also.

threetoedpete
01-27-2006, 10:13 PM
[QUOTE=Hoth-Boy]Yes I know the Combine is still a ways off, but here is the first piece of relevant news to it:

NCAA | Young will throw at the NFL Combine
Fri, 27 Jan 2006 12:46:14 -0800

Chip Brown, of the Dallas Morning News, reports former Texas QB Vince Young will throw and meet with teams at the NFL Combine in Indianapolis Feb. 22-28, according to his agent, Major Adams. Adams said Friday, Jan. 27, that Young won't run or lift weights at the Combine because "teams already know he can run and do all that."

I wished he would run in Indy, but maybe he's afraid to run?

Please no bashing, I always am suspicious of players who dont run in Indy; becasue the way I see it is if you don't run at Indy what are you hiding. I makes me double suspicious because runnign is one of VY's stronger points of his game. I am interested to see how he thorws as it'll be teh determinig factor in where he is drafted.[/QUOTE

VN Post. Never too early for combine news. He'll run at The Universities proday. If his relatives are on line. This is very bad advise from your agent.
If you're not working out with a professional service, you're moving backwards. The buzz is whipping up to move you to WR. Better get yourself
some combine coaching. Fixing to cost you about thirty million bucks. You'll end up at the top of round two on the roll of the dice. JMHO.

threetoedpete
01-27-2006, 10:15 PM
Can somebody explain what the relevence is in a QB's 40 time?

See HOFER, Steve Young.

Huge
01-28-2006, 07:53 AM
I catch your drift but I did not include RB's though a higher pick like Reggie Bush would be more important if for no other reason than to validate the use of a # 1 overall or top 5 pick. Braylon Edwards was not a "burner" either and he was the top WR chosen last season because of his ability to seperate and make the catch. however look at the CB's who's stock rose after the combines or individual workouts, Dunta Robinson being one.

Come to think of it Jason Babin stock rose in large part because of his 40 & shuttle times so speed applies to the hybred position's too like OLB.
You're right...I read your post and saw "CB" and for some reason thought "RB".
Huge <--- http://www.nfl-fans.com/html/emoticons/dunce.gif

And I agree it helps a player's stock as far as the draft is concerned. But I'm talking about on the field performance.

Nathan Vasher ran a much slower than expected 40 time at the Combine and at Texas' Pro Day. He fell in the draft because of it. He's headed to the Pro Bowl this year.

As I said unless it's lineman like I don't care.

I'm more concerned with the agent's comments and his lack of desire to show what is one of his best assests. See the 80 yarder against Okie State.

I've seen plenty of film on VY, I know he's fast. But if we're going to spend teh #1 pick on anybody I want all the data, regardless if it's irrelevant or not.

I'll be saying the same thing if Reggie deciedes to not run in Indy also.
If one of his best assets is ripping off 80 yarders, how does running a 40 help?

See HOFER, Steve Young.
I don't understand. Steve Young made the Hall of Fame because he had a good/bad 40 time?

Spoda
01-28-2006, 08:47 AM
i think vince is making a huuuge mistake by going to the combine...we have all heard the speculation he may not be able to throw the out with his sling the dog crap off his hand throwing motion....i hope for his sake he can...i wanna see tha kid do well...just not here

Texans_Chick
01-28-2006, 08:48 AM
If you're looking for a number as a measurable, what range are you looking/hoping for?

If Young clocks a 4.6 at UT's Pro Day and you were hoping for a 4.4...does that .2 seconds of a difference change anything? If so...what?

Think about the actual difference .2 of a second is and then think how that translates to a football field. Then if you can explain how it's relevent, I'd really like to hear it.


Sorry, lover of beer...I disagree.

Top 10 Rushers All-Time:
Emmitt Smith
Walter Payton
Barry Sanders
Eric Dickerson
Tony Dorsett
Jerome Bettis
Jim Brown
Marcus Allen
Franco Harris
Thurman Thomas

Top 10 Receivers All-Time:
Jerry Rice
Cris Carter
Tim Brown
Andre Reed
Art Monk
Irving Fryar
Steve Largent
Henry Ellard
James Lofton
Marvin Harrison

How many of those 20 would've been considered "burners" in their prime? Half? Maybe?

FWIW, Casserly had something interesting to say on this point on 610 yesterday. He says he looks at whether players can play football first, and then looking at the other stuff like times etc.

He says that there are all sorts of WRs and RBs that have made it even though they are not fast, but that you would blow all your drafts if you tried to particularly find the slowish good receiver or RB, because there are a lot more of those guys that never make it in the NFL versus make it.

Thought it was an interesting point.

chuckm
01-28-2006, 10:03 AM
from profootballtalk.com this morning (and yes I know it's an opinion/rumor site)



YOUNG WILL THROW, NOT RUN



Texas quarterback Vince Young will throw at the February scouting combine, but he won't run or lift weights.

His agent, Major Adams, says that Young will refrain from showing off his speed and strength because "teams already know he can run and do all that."

This implies, of course, that Young and Adams recognize that teams don't know whether "he can throw and do all that."

In our view, a guy either needs to do everything or nothing at the combine. And for a guy like Young who is hoping to be the No. 1 overall pick, the more that he does, the better.

Then again, we don't expect Adams to be in a position to give Young the best possible advice, since Adams is navigating uncharted waters on this one. Indeed, Adams apparently doesn't realize that quarterbacks don't participate in the 225-pound bench press exercise.

Rumor has it that Bus Cook is advising Young on a behind-the-scenes basis, but if that's true we'd like to think that Cook would have told Young to show off his speed in Indy.

Speed, after all, is a huge part of Young's game, and in order to create the kind of buzz that could propel him as high as possible on the board, he needs to show what he can do on the new FieldTurf at the RCA Dome.

Lucky
01-28-2006, 10:34 AM
Speed, after all, is a huge part of Young's game, and in order to create the kind of buzz that could propel him as high as possible on the board, he needs to show what he can do on the new FieldTurf at the RCA Dome.
No sane scout needs to see Young run. He's a great, not good, runner. That's a given. Everyone wants to see Young pass, especially next to the other QBs at the combine. I hope Leinart & Cutler take the challenge. It's a risky move by Young and his agent, but I admire them for it.

Carr didn't run at the combine, opting for his pro day. Same for Carson Palmer. No big deal.

tulexan
01-28-2006, 05:05 PM
A bit of speculation, but I believe that Vince attending the combine means that he has been notified (either formally or informally) that he will NOT be taken by the Houston Texans. Now that Vince is definitely on the "open market" of the draft, he is planning on showcasing his talents because of fears that both Matt Leinart and Jay Cutler could surpass him in the draft. If he believed that he would be taken by the Texans like so many people in Houston think so, then he would have nothing to gain by throwing at the combine.

Maddict5
01-28-2006, 06:19 PM
i think its a bad idea not to run at indy-every1 knows it is a fast surface so it gives you a really good shot at wowing scouts

also some other combine news-mario williams hasnt been invited to go yet- could you imagine if they dont invite the top DE- probably will go though

Lucky
01-28-2006, 06:38 PM
A bit of speculation, but I believe that Vince attending the combine means that he has been notified (either formally or informally) that he will NOT be taken by the Houston Texans.
99.99% of the invited players go to the combine. They at least get weighed, measured, urine-tested, poked, prodded, x-rayed, and interviewed. Some of the top guys don't participate in the sprints, obstacle course, or position drills. That Vince is throwing but not running is no different than what David Carr did at Indy...and he was "informally" notified that he would be the top pick.