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thunderkyss
01-26-2006, 04:16 PM
..turn it around?? How long before he starts to look like the QB you, McNair, Kubiak, et.. al.. think he is capable of being?? mid-season?? 2007??

How long should I wait, before I say I told you so??

Mario Williams
01-26-2006, 04:19 PM
Why don't you stop trolling?

Grid
01-26-2006, 04:22 PM
not next season.. but around week 8 of the season after. so.. 2008.

Next season he isnt given a "free ride".. but he will be learning a new offense.. so he cant really be expected to be a top 10 QB.. but he IS expected to show marked improvement. And when I say improvement im not talking small things.. I mean he needs to show more confidence in the pocket.. better instincts.. and the ability to manage the game, and get wins.

if he shows all that.. then coming into the 2008 season..by about the mid point I expect to see a finished product. An NFL QB that can take you to a superbowl.

If he isnt very impressive next season but still shows improvement.. I would still expect us to look into bringing in a QB to groom through the draft next year.. or possibly look into getting Phillip Rivers if Brees is still the man in SD.

BREAZE
01-26-2006, 04:30 PM
The very minute he gets 2 seconds in the pocket...;)

Bronco Texan
01-26-2006, 04:35 PM
In Jake's first year with Koobs he went 9-3 as a starter(injuries kept out of 4 games). He threw for 15tds and only 7 ints with a passer rating of 91.2. Oh and he took the 10-6 Broncos to the playoffs. So I don't see why he can turn it around next year. Koobs took Plummer who had a career avg passer rating of 69 and turned him into a 90s type of QB. Carr has a career passer rating of 73, plus has thrown more td than ints the past two seasons. I think Carr will do just fine next year. Prediction high passer rating around 88-90.

chall8
01-26-2006, 04:36 PM
I'm hoping for the best with DC, but am not holding my breath. He's a serviceable QB, nothing more and nothing less.

OzzO
01-26-2006, 04:37 PM
at least a quarter of calling plays....

Caesar
01-26-2006, 04:40 PM
How long will it take Carr to turn it around?? How long before he starts to look like the QB you, McNair, Kubiak, et.. al.. think he is capable of being?? mid-season?? 2007??
Around the year Vince Young wins a Super Bowl with his team.

The very minute he gets 2 seconds in the pocket...;)
And how do we get to that point? Take another runningback! Brilliant!

thunderkyss
01-26-2006, 04:44 PM
not next season.. but around week 8 of the season after. so.. 2008.

Next season he isnt given a "free ride".. but he will be learning a new offense.. so he cant really be expected to be a top 10 QB.. but he IS expected to show marked improvement. And when I say improvement im not talking small things.. I mean he needs to show more confidence in the pocket.. better instincts.. and the ability to manage the game, and get wins.

if he shows all that.. then coming into the 2008 season..by about the mid point I expect to see a finished product. An NFL QB that can take you to a superbowl.

If he isnt very impressive next season but still shows improvement.. I would still expect us to look into bringing in a QB to groom through the draft next year.. or possibly look into getting Phillip Rivers if Brees is still the man in SD.


I'm sorry, but if this is your best answer, I'm saying it now. If we're going to be waiting 3 years(2006, 2007, 2008) before Carr is a top 10 QB, we should go ahead, and get Vince right now.

IF.... IF, it is possible that we may be looking for a QB in next years draft, we might as well get Vince now.

chall8
01-26-2006, 04:48 PM
I have to agree that we can't wait until Week 8 of 2008 to determine whether David Carr can be a solution for this team.

I think this team needs to make a run for the playoffs in 2007 or we're drafting a new QB in the 2008 draft.

Grid
01-26-2006, 04:51 PM
hmm.. im sorry i messed my years up :).. i was thinking this next season would be the 2007 season.

What i meant is I would give him all of this next season..expecting marked improvement.. and then up to week 8 of the next season (2007) to show that he is an NFL QB that can take us to the superbowl.

TexanAddict
01-26-2006, 04:52 PM
David Carr, Andre Johnson, Dominick Davis..........I thought last year they were on the verge of being the next big thing.........I thought this year was going to be their breakout year....

I honestly don't know what happened.......but there is no way I can fault Carr. He's done some stupid things this season, but aside from Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady, Every NFL QB has done some stupid things.......Favre, McNabb, Leftwich.........Get us an offensive line that works, stop looking at the wrong end of a problem, and maybe we can start winning some games.

..............just my 2
hmmm...

Bronco Texan
01-26-2006, 04:52 PM
I've thrown out some really good points on why Carr will be great with Koobs. Using past experiences. But now I see no one here cares because they all want a reason to take VY. LOOK GUY VY IS NOT GOING TO BE OUR NEXT QB. Look it happens, home town guys don't always play for the home town team. Yeah it sucks, but VY isn't right for this team. Not now, and he will only hurt this team in developing into a champion soon! Half of you guys are thick head morons that don't know a lick of what you are talking about and only want VY because of all the hype and the fact that he is from Houston. Hell if Houston is going to make a decision in the draft because of home town hype then this franchise really has no chance of winning!

chall8
01-26-2006, 04:53 PM
What i meant is I would give him all of this next season..expecting marked improvement.. and then up to week 8 of the next season (2007) to show that he is an NFL QB that can take us to the superbowl.

Yeah I can live with that.

Double Barrel
01-26-2006, 06:21 PM
..turn it around?? How long before he starts to look like the QB you, McNair, Kubiak, et.. al.. think he is capable of being?? mid-season?? 2007??

How long should I wait, before I say I told you so??

I think DC can be at least at a level of a Trent Dilfer-type QB within next season. He might not win games on his own, but he won't lose them. And remember, Dilfer has a ring.

How long should you wait? When did you start waiting? :rolleyes:

Tulip
01-26-2006, 08:48 PM
The fans will give him less time than they gave him this year, which was less than one home game.

The first time a drive stalls because of a bad decision by Carr - the boos will be heard.

And before anyone attacks me - in 32 home games I have never booed David Carr.

Wharton
01-26-2006, 09:11 PM
Allot of it will depend on what else is done in the offseason. If the talent around DC doesn't improve significantly, it will take longer. Jake had a good football team around him in Denver when he took over. David doesn't. Personally, I wouldn't expect to see much improvement for the first half of next season. From the midway point of next season until the end, I would expect to see DC show some signs of improvement.

I also think they need to bring someone in to push and mentor David. An older, solid veteran who really isn't competing with DC for the starting position, but someone who can remind him that he is replaceable. One of the problems I had with Capers was not benching David. Sometimes the fear of losing your job will make you perform better.

WWJD
01-26-2006, 09:42 PM
The fans will give him less time than they gave him this year, which was less than one home game.

The first time a drive stalls because of a bad decision by Carr - the boos will be heard.

And before anyone attacks me - in 32 home games I have never booed David Carr.


What she said!

LoneStarState
01-26-2006, 10:01 PM
Until we see a real offense with a real OL, we won't know what this team is capable of. All I know is that the game where Carr finally got to call the plays was the best I had seen him and the offense play in 4 years. And then the coaches took over in the 2nd half and we lost...

I'm not a Carr homer, but even the most critical of critics would have to admit that he carried is own when he called the plays.

edo783
01-26-2006, 10:17 PM
I'm not a Carr homer, but even the most critical of critics would have to admit that he carried is own when he called the plays.

No they wouldn't. the replys would be:

1. He didn't call the plays, the coaches actually did.(someone actually said that one)
2. It was acedental, the sun was in the defenses eyes.
3. It never happend, it was a scorboard malfunction.
4. It was a bad defense.
5. Vince changed the aura of the univers momentarily and and helped Carr.

And what ever absurd crud they can dream up in their hate induce frenzy.

thunderkyss
01-27-2006, 12:58 AM
hmmm...


You got me, I did say that. but I do have my reasons.......

LOOK GUY VY IS NOT GOING TO BE OUR NEXT QB. Look it happens, home town guys don't always play for the home town team. Yeah it sucks, but VY isn't right for this team. Not now, and he will only hurt this team in developing into a champion soon! Half of you guys are thick head morons that don't know a lick of what you are talking about and only want VY because of all the hype and the fact that he is from Houston. Hell if Houston is going to make a decision in the draft because of home town hype then this franchise really has no chance of winning!

First of all, I'm not from Houston......... I don't live in Houston, and many of the guys who want Vince Young, aren't from Houston.
Secondly, I think it's pretty obvious, that Carr doesn't fit this team. And as far as Vince hurting this team of becoming a champion soon, the only real way to find out, would be for Vince to be drafted on this team, and for this team to play poorly for.... I don't know, say 4 years........would you say that should be long enough?? But that isn't going to happen..Because we may not pick him... and if we did, he wouldn't play poorly for 4 years... heck, only one QB in the history of the league has played poorly for 4 years, and still has starting job. I mean it would take some pretty thick headed morons to draft a QB, start him behind no talent, let him lead the league in Sacks for 4 years, & then pick up an extension on his contract for another three years of the same.

How long will it take you to get over not seeing Vince in a Texan uniform?
I'll see Vince in a Texans Uniform before I'll see Bush.... You're delusional if you think Bush fits what Kubiak wants to do.... There is no way McNair would tell every one what we plan on doing with the pick. That makes no sense at all, especially since we've only just got our coach. The more it looks like we will pick Reggie Bush, the more you can be sure Bush won't be drafted by the Texans with the #1 pick overall.....

beerlover
01-27-2006, 01:04 AM
Pre-Season. Winning is important regardless and no one headed the warning signals before the season officially kicked off which as it turned out was a precursser to regular season results :brickwall

kbourda
01-27-2006, 01:16 AM
..turn it around?? How long before he starts to look like the QB you, McNair, Kubiak, et.. al.. think he is capable of being?? mid-season?? 2007??

How long should I wait, before I say I told you so??

Honestly, if you tell me I told you so next season i'd be fine by that. And a well deserved one too. But three years or so, you might as well save your breath. In my eyes, since Carr is the choice, he MUST produce now. You and every Carr lover should expect nothing less.

thunderkyss
01-27-2006, 01:30 AM
Honestly, if you tell me I told you so next season i'd be fine by that. And a well deserved one too. But three years or so, you might as well save your breath. In my eyes, since Carr is the choice, he MUST produce now. You and every Carr lover should expect nothing less.

I think you got me bent.

infantrycak
01-27-2006, 08:27 AM
heck, only one QB in the history of the league has played poorly for 4 years, and still has starting job.

Or maybe two.

4th year stats--49.4% completions, 10 TD's, 15 INT's

that QB went on in year 5 to have--45.3% completions, 7 TD's, 8 INT's

In his 6th year in the league he for the 1st time had more TD's than INT's but not until his 12th year (the only year he did this) did he have a 1.5 to 1 TD to INT ratio. 56.2% was his career high for completion %. He has 4 super bowl rings. Seems his team did OK holding on past year 4.

thunderkyss
01-27-2006, 12:09 PM
No they wouldn't. the replys would be:

1. He didn't call the plays, the coaches actually did.(someone actually said that one)
2. It was acedental, the sun was in the defenses eyes.
3. It never happend, it was a scorboard malfunction.
4. It was a bad defense.
5. Vince changed the aura of the univers momentarily and and helped Carr.

And what ever absurd crud they can dream up in their hate induce frenzy.


So what you are saying, is that if Carr is calling the plays, the Offensive line can give him the protection he needs to be successful, but if he isn't calling the plays, he'll do whatever it takes to make the O-Line look bad??


Or maybe two.

4th year stats--49.4% completions, 10 TD's, 15 INT's

that QB went on in year 5 to have--45.3% completions, 7 TD's, 8 INT's

In his 6th year in the league he for the 1st time had more TD's than INT's but not until his 12th year (the only year he did this) did he have a 1.5 to 1 TD to INT ratio. 56.2% was his career high for completion %. He has 4 super bowl rings. Seems his team did OK holding on past year 4.

Bradshaw is an anomoly in more ways than one. Good find, great post.

thunderkyss
01-29-2006, 10:22 PM
Originally Posted by thunderkyss
David Carr, Andre Johnson, Dominick Davis..........I thought last year they were on the verge of being the next big thing.........I thought this year was going to be their breakout year....

I honestly don't know what happened.......but there is no way I can fault Carr. He's done some stupid things this season, but aside from Peyton Manning, and Tom Brady, Every NFL QB has done some stupid things.......Favre, McNabb, Leftwich.........Get us an offensive line that works, stop looking at the wrong end of a problem, and maybe we can start winning some games.

..............just my 2

Just wanted to get back to this. This team needs a lot, but we don't need a QB. If it weren't Vince Young(or the next McNabb as I see it) I would definitely be in the trade down group. I really think Vince is that special.

I wouldn't be trying so hard to make the case for drafting Vince on this 'board, if it weren't for so many folks seriously wanting to draft Reggie. Seriously, they're serious. I think it is much easier to build a case for drafting a Change of Pace QB, than it is to draft a Change-of-pace RB with the #1 overall pick.

So as long as there are folks in the Bush camp, I'm firmly rooted in the Young camp. But...... as soon as Training camp comes, I'll be rooting for the Texans, no ifs ands or buts.


Unless the "see I told you we should have drafted Reggie" Bunch won't let me rest.

TEXANFAN23435
01-30-2006, 12:04 AM
Thunderkyss, there are only two things I'm absolutely certain of, one... we don't need VY and two, we don't need RB.

Like I mentioned in an earlier post, VY came into this past season rated behind McNeal. He put together a helleva a season but it was, one season. Just not enough to base a #1 overall pick on. Remember Ryan Leaf had a helleva one season too and SD is still applying aloe vera to those burns. In Youngs best interest, he needs to go to the Titans so he can be groomed behind McNair for 2 seasons.

I was very pro RBush up to the Rose Bowl. The UT speed on defense nuetralized RBush, therefore I backed way down on my enthusiasm. NFL speed could eat this kid alive. Not to mention, we really have no need for a third down, KR, PR and WR specialist. Players like this are available in the later rounds, but never as the overall #1 pick.

As exciting as it may seem to pick up one of these guys, the problems on this team run much deeper than either one of these guys could represent as the solution.

We just need to trade down, stock pile picks for the next two years and sign Nalen so we have an anchor on that OL, not to mention someone who understands the "Zone Blocking Scheme".

Big B Texan Fan
01-30-2006, 12:41 AM
Or maybe two.

4th year stats--49.4% completions, 10 TD's, 15 INT's

that QB went on in year 5 to have--45.3% completions, 7 TD's, 8 INT's

In his 6th year in the league he for the 1st time had more TD's than INT's but not until his 12th year (the only year he did this) did he have a 1.5 to 1 TD to INT ratio. 56.2% was his career high for completion %. He has 4 super bowl rings. Seems his team did OK holding on past year 4.
Maybe carr can rub his head for good luck.

And I doubt that Bradshaw had the earth shattering sack #'s either. Is there a trophy for that, maybe a bronzed lil' baggy from Victoria Secrets or something.

thunderkyss
01-30-2006, 07:26 AM
Funny thing............. Bradshaw was booed quite a bit until the team started winning SuperBowls.

Texans_Chick
01-30-2006, 08:48 AM
Unless our defense gets significantly better, the QB play won't be much better.

If we get behind in games, it is hard keep the run setting up the pass. When the other team knows you have to pass to get back into it, that is when they can tee off on you.

Even if we see significant improvement in our offense, I still don't see it as being good enough to be a part of shootouts.

cadahnic
01-30-2006, 08:51 AM
Texans Chick we have played in shootouts before and came up a little short. If our offense is more aggressive I could see us winning some of them. I am with you on improving the defense. I am torn right now. I really want to go defense in the first round with Mario Williams, assuming he shows that he will work his *** off, but the rest of the time I am looking alot at offense. Mainly the OL, eventhough I think we need a CB/FS to really help out.

chuckm
01-30-2006, 09:04 AM
I'm sorry, but if this is your best answer, I'm saying it now. If we're going to be waiting 3 years(2006, 2007, 2008) before Carr is a top 10 QB, we should go ahead, and get Vince right now.

IF.... IF, it is possible that we may be looking for a QB in next years draft, we might as well get Vince now.


la la la la la ..... can someone set up a countdown clock to the draft?

cadahnic
01-30-2006, 09:21 AM
If Carr puts up numbers like he did in 2004 then I am satisfied, he was in the top half of QBs in the league and led us to an almost 500 season. Yeah He has things to work on what QB doesnt. You still hear Tom Moore getting on to Manning about happy feet and throwing off his back foot. So playing in the league is a continual growing process like life it will always be. If Carr can give me the 2004 model that I began to like then I think we have a good chance to win games.

powerfuldragon
01-30-2006, 09:25 AM
Supposing we do draft VY, in all likelyhood, he probably won't get on the field much in '06 and maybe not even in '07, so Carr will still be our main QB for a while.