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Sportsfan
01-25-2006, 09:56 PM
First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.

Texans need to chase Carr out of their pocket
January 24, 2006

Dan Pompei

The most important question the Texans will answer this season is this: Should they sack quarterback David Carr?

My answer: Why not? Everyone else has.

In four seasons, Carr has been sacked 208 times. This year he was sacked 68 times -- 19 more than Drew Bledsoe, who was sacked the second-most times. He has lost 1,226 yards on sacks, roughly the distance from Reliant Stadium to George Bush Intercontintenal Airport, where he can find his flight out of town.

Of course, Carr has been the victim of poor support. His line has had the effect of a colander. The running game has been erratic. Perhaps the schemes he has played in haven't given him enough options to avoid sacks.

But he hasn't helped himself much, either, and the issue now is if he's capable of helping himself. Whether he has been beaten into a skittish quarterback or whether he's just not instinctive enough to operate with bodies flying around him, Carr cannot get out of the way of a pass rush.

One NFL head coach familiar with Carr says he believes Carr can be salvaged. Perhaps he's right. Perhaps not. It's not a bet I'd be willing to make if Matt Leinart of USC and Vince Young of Texas were options.

On the occasions when Carr hasn't had to worry about pass rushers, he has been effective. "He's fine with the three-step stuff," the coach says. "But because of the protection problems, he's looking at the rush and not downfield."

You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

"At some point, the fundamental protection instinct has to kick in," says another NFL head coach who has devised game plans against Carr. "I think that's happened a little bit. Because his protection has been so bad, it's hard to determine if it's something he'll always have or if it can get better with a better offensive line and a better offensive approach that allows him to know where to go with the ball."

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.

There are other issues with Carr. One personnel director who has studied Carr believes even though Carr has the arm to make every throw, he lacks the touch to get the ball over a defender.

His mechanics aren't out of a textbook -- he throws sidearm -- and the result was 15 passes batted down at the line, fourth most in the NFL.

Carr could overcome his delivery if that were his biggest problem. There is precedent for quarterbacks with unorthodox deliveries -- Fran Tarkenton and Bernie Kosar to name two.

I can envision Carr becoming a serviceable quarterback someplace else. But he probably won't ever be a difference-maker. The point is the Texans can't let a quarterback they can't be sure of prevent them from what could be a once-in-a-millennium opportunity.

And that, dear readers, is sack No. 209.

Full article: http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060124/698707-p.html

barzilla
01-25-2006, 10:04 PM
That is a very interesting article and probably the most succinct argument I've heard for Carr not being a good QB. I don't know if I'm convinced or not, but it was well written.

HoustonFrog
01-25-2006, 10:17 PM
Definitely food for thought since it came from an outsider who talked to people who saw bad and good. I'm sure, per usual, people will find the points they like and go with that. The Carr lovers will claim that the guy admitted that Carr hasn't had a chance and the Carr haters will say "see." I do think the guy pointed out some worrisome things that might be problems despite an improved team and line.

Grid
01-25-2006, 10:30 PM
pretty good write up on Carr's questionable traits.

It didnt really change anything.. there is still a precedent for keeping Carr and seeing if he can be salvaged, and there is still plenty of beef against him. So neither party can really say that this proves their point.

Wharton
01-25-2006, 10:40 PM
Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.

I've said it before and I will say it again - If DC hasn't learned how to throw the ball away by his 4th year, then when will he. I have a 13 year old nephew who throws the ball away on Madden, why can't DC. DC should know how to do this type of stuff already. Vince is a better quarterback then DC is right now and always will be.

Heck I don't care, take the kid from USC then, just get rid of DC. Or Chris Winke. Or somebody - anybody!!!!!

Nighthawk
01-25-2006, 11:29 PM
pretty good write up on Carr's questionable traits.

It didnt really change anything.. there is still a precedent for keeping Carr and seeing if he can be salvaged, and there is still plenty of beef against him. So neither party can really say that this proves their point.

Well, seems to me it does change some things. The Carr fanboys have to take stock and figure out how to counter the persuasive argument presented in the article. It's the same argument that has been presented on the board in several ways, and it misses some other key points or advantages in getting rid of Carr, but it suggests that some "football people" share the view of Carr's limitations that many of us have put forward previously.

As I said else, would you rather keep Carr and see "if he can be salvaged," or build a new and better team around a new and better QB? Seems to me the best choice is clear.

Fiddy
01-25-2006, 11:32 PM
You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

"At some point, the fundamental protection instinct has to kick in," says another NFL head coach who has devised game plans against Carr. "I think that's happened a little bit. Because his protection has been so bad, it's hard to determine if it's something he'll always have or if it can get better with a better offensive line and a better offensive approach that allows him to know where to go with the ball."

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender. I've been saying this for the longest time...

Hookem Horns
01-25-2006, 11:39 PM
Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

I've been saying this for the longest time...

I have been saying this since someone pointed it out to me in 2004 and I started paying attention to it. A few days ago I mentioned that I think Carr is responsible for a lot of his sacks. This guy is saying the same thing.

ArlingtonTexan
01-25-2006, 11:43 PM
I've been saying this for the longest time...especially that last sentence...

Yeah, I could do a search and find where most if not all of these points most have been made overall the last couple of years by some of the more respected contributors to the board. Of course, now that a national writer has noticed or compiled the same things it is now a great objective look at Carr.

I have long given up on the thought that an intelligent discussion could be had of Carr on this board without just being lumped into the Carr hater or Carr lover category.

CarrIsFine
01-26-2006, 01:14 AM
At least two NFL coaches blame his problems on protection. In my book that is equal to the opinion of about 47 message board posters and 3 sports writers.

Oops forgot Kubiak, add him and that's about 71 posters and 5 sports writers.

LBC_Justin
01-26-2006, 02:38 AM
First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.

HJam72
01-26-2006, 04:15 AM
As far as the throw away business goes, there are 2 problems: (1 is that ALL QBs look like *****s with bad protection, and 2) is that you can't just run, run, throw it away; run, run, throw it away; run, run, throw it away. At some point, you have to try to win, which means hanging in there and then trying to force something. Carr has said himself that if he threw it away every time he needed to that he would ALWAYS be throwing it away.

I do think that Carr doesn't stay in the pocket long enough at times (happy feet). That comes from 4 years of crud for protection. I don't believe that Carr is going to be limited to "serviceable QB" in the long run--unless he stays with this team and the O-line is horrible FOREVER. However, VY is probably an upgrade (at least in the long run), so I can see taking him. Then I can laugh when VY is running out of bounds/for his life. :)

Nighthawk
01-26-2006, 06:53 AM
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.

Gosh, just like you I don't care who our QB is (wink wink, nudge nudge), I just hope he or she gets protected by our big ol' offensive line! Because golly gee! a QB guy or gal can't really do much when he or she is not protected, Batman! And I think if we protect our current gal or guy, why, s/he might just turn out, uh . . . serviceable, after a couple of years under the fine hand of Gary K! Holy Dick Tracy, guys! Let's give him a chance! Six year is not too long, is it? I know for some guys they're in the superbowl in two, but they have a better line than we do oh darn! Really, let's give Davy another 4 years, that'd be fair, that's be really fair and earnest of us. I mean, I'm drawing the line there, though. If he can't get us to 8-8 after 8 years in teh league, I think we better sit him down for a game or two, let him cool his jets on the pine for a couple outings, just let him know we mean business!

bigtex77
01-26-2006, 07:11 AM
What a smart*****.

Wharton
01-26-2006, 07:35 AM
Do you think when things go bad he can just throw the ball away, it is that easy?

Well yeah! If a 13 year old can figure it out, then yeah, its that easy. When your out of the pocket, a linebacker breathing down your neck, and noone to throw to, then throw the ball into the bleachers.

Think slowly, act quickly. Know what you are going to do with the ball at all times. Bottom line is the game has not slowed down for him yet.

TEXANRED
01-26-2006, 08:11 AM
First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him, i just want the team to get better, period. I just found the article pretty informative and unbiased. Pompei makes some really good points whether you like or dislike Carr.

Texans need to chase Carr out of their pocket
January 24, 2006

Dan Pompei


On the occasions when Carr hasn't had to worry about pass rushers, he has been effective. "He's fine with the three-step stuff," the coach says. "But because of the protection problems, he's looking at the rush and not downfield."

You don't play quarterback in a china cabinet. What separates the great ones is how they react to pressure. Carr doesn't feel pressure until he's on his back and seeing little birdies flying around his helmet.

Carr has been hit so much he won't stay in the pocket for that extra half-second to wait for a receiver to come free if it means taking another hit. Happy feet? His feet couldn't be any happier if he were a Disney character. Sometimes he plays like he should be wearing tap shoes instead of cleats and carrying a cane instead of a football.

Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender.

Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.

There are other issues with Carr. One personnel director who has studied Carr believes even though Carr has the arm to make every throw, he lacks the touch to get the ball over a defender.


And that, dear readers, is sack No. 209.

Full article: http://www.sportingnews.com/exclusives/20060124/698707-p.html
So which is it? Does he feel pressure or dosent he? Can he read the D where the linebacker comes straight up the gut untouched and he pulls the ball down so he can live for the next play or dosent he? Oh I see if you are Vince Young and you scramble you have crazy mad tallent, if you are David Carr you have happy feet.:ok: Run into another defender? He was second among QB's behind Vick in rushing. Well there you go, another problem, his last name isn't Vick. Did he inadvertantly (I need a spell check please. Spend a Billion dollars on a team and you cant afford a spell check?) say that Carr could throw when he has time? How is the line unable to pick up a blitz Carrs fault? Who are the coach's he is talking too? A lack of touch was in Carr's scouting report. Poor caoching has allowed that to go on.

This guy wouldn't be a UT alum would he?

HoustonFrog
01-26-2006, 08:21 AM
It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.

I completely disagree. Tom Brady stepped in for Bledsoe in the third or fourth game of that one season and led them and Bledsoe was getting killed in the pocket. Why is it that some guy naturally know how to sidestep rushes without taking their eyes off the receivers downfield and others can't. How is the piece not informative?He gives as many sources as some others have and pretty much pointed out obvious weaknesses. I'm middle of the road on what to do with him but it really is amazing that so many people have the Carr blinders on. To the poster above who said 2 coaches said it was the lines fault..they also said that he may have caused some of the problems himself and they didn't know if it could be fixed. At least try and open your mind to what an outsider is saying. Maybe Carr can step up from HEB commercials to Visa.

HoustonFrog
01-26-2006, 08:24 AM
Gosh, just like you I don't care who our QB is (wink wink, nudge nudge), I just hope he or she gets protected by our big ol' offensive line! Because golly gee! a QB guy or gal can't really do much when he or she is not protected, Batman! And I think if we protect our current gal or guy, why, s/he might just turn out, uh . . . serviceable, after a couple of years under the fine hand of Gary K! Holy Dick Tracy, guys! Let's give him a chance! Six year is not too long, is it? I know for some guys they're in the superbowl in two, but they have a better line than we do oh darn! Really, let's give Davy another 4 years, that'd be fair, that's be really fair and earnest of us. I mean, I'm drawing the line there, though. If he can't get us to 8-8 after 8 years in teh league, I think we better sit him down for a game or two, let him cool his jets on the pine for a couple outings, just let him know we mean business!

LOL..maybe we can draft a stylist for the sidelines to make his life better. :rolleyes:

Kaiser Toro
01-26-2006, 08:41 AM
Nothing new that has not been covered. If Carr was only counting against the cap at 3 million dollars it would be a no brainer to keep him. But to take a hit at 7.92 million next year is possibly the most mind boggling waste of money for our team and it is bordering Snyder territory on frivolousness.

infantrycak
01-26-2006, 09:09 AM
I completely disagree. Tom Brady stepped in for Bledsoe in the third or fourth game of that one season and led them and Bledsoe was getting killed in the pocket.

Brady does have excellent pocket presence, but Bledsoe was not getting comparatively killed. Bledsoe was sacked 4 times in the 1st game with Cincy who went on to have 48 sacks on the season, 4th in the NFL and then was sacked once in the 2nd game, i.e. 2.5 sacks per game. Brady went on to be sacked 41 times in the next 14 games or 2.9 sacks per game.

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 09:17 AM
Against the blitz, he is defenseless as a kitten. On the 131 plays in which he was blitzed this season, Carr was sacked 29 times and had a 64.9 passer rating, which ranked 27th among starters, according to STATS Inc.Now in an all out blitz who's responsibility is it to get rid of the ball? Carrs.

Carr got sacked 22% of the time on a blitz. That is mind boggling, to me. 1 out of every 5 blitz's resulted in a SACK. Not a hurried pass, not a batted ball, not an incomplete, not a hurry or knockdown on the QB, but an honest in the record SACK.

anyone that can't see how Carr holds on to the ball too long with this stat is either blind or will NEVER be able to see it.

Now don't fool yourself and make a rash and humiliating post here Carr lovers and try to defend this by saying it is because the O-line can't protect Carr. It is a BLITZ. That means more rushers than defenders. They can't block because there is no O-line left to pick up the extra rushing defender. That is why it is called a BLITZ. Carr has to recognize these, and get rid of the ball. That is his RESPONSIBILITY.

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 09:22 AM
Now in an all out blitz who's responsibility is it to get rid of the ball? Carrs.

Carr got sacked 22% of the time on a blitz. That is mind boggling, to me. 1 out of every 5 blitz's resulted in a SACK. Not a hurried pass, not a batted ball, not an incomplete, not a hurry or knockdown on the QB, but an honest in the record SACK.

anyone that can't see how Carr holds on to the ball too long with this stat is either blind or will NEVER be able to see it.

Now don't fool yourself and make a rash and humiliating post here Carr lovers and try to defend this by saying it is because the O-line can't protect Carr. It is a BLITZ. That means more rushers than defenders. They can't block because there is no O-line left to pick up the extra rushing defender. That is why it is called a BLITZ. Carr has to recognize these, and get rid of the ball. That is his RESPONSIBILITY.

The whole argument is that he doesn't have enough time even when there is not a blitz. When there is a blitz he has even less time. How is he supposed to get rid of the ball without taking the chance of an INT? He won't have time to get out of the pocket, so if he just throws the ball away it will be intentional grounding.

I understand your point, and I know it is the QBs responsibility to get rid of the ball in a blitz situation, but I am trying to understand how he can do this in his situation.

Another point from this thread regarding happy feet. Has anyone ever watched Peyton Manning in the pocket when he gets pressure, as rare as that may be outside of the Steelers game? Talk about happy feet.

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 09:27 AM
If you can't pull your arm back and throw the ball 10 feet over the nearest WR's head into the stands during a blitz, you don't belong in the NFL. 31 other QB's seemed to have this figured out last season.

nunusguy
01-26-2006, 09:29 AM
I have long given up on the thought that an intelligent discussion could be had of Carr on this board without just being lumped into the Carr hater or Carr lover category.
And that situation existed even before VY declared for the 2006 Draft and entered this conversation. I mean we already got some clown that allegedly dumps beer on Carr's wife he was so upset with Carr after the 2004 season finale.
I'm really relieved that we got a new HC like Kubiak whos specialty is QBs. He
is probably one of the very best people in the NFL to decide on the retention of Carr.

SESupergenius
01-26-2006, 09:39 AM
Now in an all out blitz who's responsibility is it to get rid of the ball? Carrs.

Carr got sacked 22% of the time on a blitz. That is mind boggling, to me. 1 out of every 5 blitz's resulted in a SACK. Not a hurried pass, not a batted ball, not an incomplete, not a hurry or knockdown on the QB, but an honest in the record SACK.

anyone that can't see how Carr holds on to the ball too long with this stat is either blind or will NEVER be able to see it.

Now don't fool yourself and make a rash and humiliating post here Carr lovers and try to defend this by saying it is because the O-line can't protect Carr. It is a BLITZ. That means more rushers than defenders. They can't block because there is no O-line left to pick up the extra rushing defender. That is why it is called a BLITZ. Carr has to recognize these, and get rid of the ball. That is his RESPONSIBILITY.
It's the RB's and TE's job to pick up the blitz, how many times did you see that implode? How many times did you see the O-line not have a clue on who to pick up on a blitz? Please. You are making a terrible case against Carr. Tell me this, how does our offensive coordinator handle the play calling if a blitz is coming, what routes do the WR's check off to? How much seperation have the WR's been getting? How many times have you seen AJ wide open downfield, or even blow past someone with his exceptional speed? There are just way too many factors for you to pin this on one freaking guy. If that was the case then Banks should have come in for Carr and lit it up.....not. There goes that theory out the window. I guess the coaches should have remained and Carr should have been let go????? Alrighty.

HoustonFrog
01-26-2006, 09:40 AM
Brady does have excellent pocket presence, but Bledsoe was not getting comparatively killed. Bledsoe was sacked 4 times in the 1st game with Cincy who went on to have 48 sacks on the season, 4th in the NFL and then was sacked once in the 2nd game, i.e. 2.5 sacks per game. Brady went on to be sacked 41 times in the next 14 games or 2.9 sacks per game.

But the guy was a second year guy who had never started and stepped in with the pocket presence. Those still aren't great numbers at all. Pretty bad in fact. Bledsoes was the second most sacked guy behind Carr this year with 50 and he still produced some pretty good games and they won 9 games. Their usually stable line was injured and was horrible. The played a rookie back alot and I wouldn't call their receivers spring chickens. My point is, playing in the pocket while guys are flying around you is something you learn with time. I'm on the fence but I'm not sure if Carr will ever have that. The problem with this argument is if you point out a good QB people point to line. In my book it is kind of a cop out because even with a good line there are still guys all around you.

HoustonFrog
01-26-2006, 09:45 AM
The whole argument is that he doesn't have enough time even when there is not a blitz. When there is a blitz he has even less time. How is he supposed to get rid of the ball without taking the chance of an INT? He won't have time to get out of the pocket, so if he just throws the ball away it will be intentional grounding.

I guess my theory is that I don't mind a pick here and there if you are trying to make plays on a crappy team. But I do think he lacks the awareness to throw it away alot of times. If you have three choices: fetal postion for the sack, throw it away, take a shot to make a play then I'd rather see the last two and blame the line then #1.

SESupergenius
01-26-2006, 09:55 AM
Bledsoes was the second most sacked guy behind Carr this year with 50 and he still produced some pretty good games and they won 9 games. Their usually stable line was injured and was horrible. The played a rookie back alot and I wouldn't call their receivers spring chickens. My point is, playing in the pocket while guys are flying around you is something you learn with time. I'm on the fence but I'm not sure if Carr will ever have that. The problem with this argument is if you point out a good QB people point to line. In my book it is kind of a cop out because even with a good line there are still guys all around you.
And how was the Cowboys defense? How was the offensive coordinator?

jim rome
01-26-2006, 09:58 AM
look guys i am not saying if carr is the guy or not but i am saying that you cant judge a guy that has had no protection that is just a simple truth in this leauge and people where ready to bench jhon elway in denver in his fourth year and look what he turned out to be. even though that being said i would llike for us to find that out about him some where elese because i would like to see young in a texans jersey next year that would be fun to watch.

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 10:01 AM
It's the RB's and TE's job to pick up the blitz, how many times did you see that implode? How many times did you see the O-line not have a clue on who to pick up on a blitz? Please. You are making a terrible case against Carr. Tell me this, how does our offensive coordinator handle the play calling if a blitz is coming, what routes do the WR's check off to? How much seperation have the WR's been getting? How many times have you seen AJ wide open downfield, or even blow past someone with his exceptional speed? There are just way too many factors for you to pin this on one freaking guy. If that was the case then Banks should have come in for Carr and lit it up.....not. There goes that theory out the window. I guess the coaches should have remained and Carr should have been let go????? Alrighty.

You are just a Carr lover! How could you blame his failure on other members of the team not doing their jobs? I don't care that it is true. :sarcasm:

Texan Asylum
01-26-2006, 10:15 AM
I say let everyone who has a say in the decision making process speak for whether we should keep or trade Carr. I take it as a personal attack on MY TEAM when an outsider says that our QB isn't any good. I'll let our coach Mr Kubiak be the spokesman for what the truth is and I'll go along with what HE states as the right direction to go. Call it blind faith, but without being in a position to fully know or do anything about it that's all I can go on. Personally IM Most HO.

HoustonFrog
01-26-2006, 10:15 AM
And how was the Cowboys defense? How was the offensive coordinator?

That is all well and good for a few of the wins but the defense also gave up drives and games to Washington and Seattle and in some respects Denver. They almost did against the Giants and they won on OT. My point was a guy can still get pounded and still figure out a way to manage the game and work in the pocket.

Lucky
01-26-2006, 10:20 AM
Now don't fool yourself and make a rash and humiliating post here Carr lovers and try to defend this by saying it is because the O-line can't protect Carr. It is a BLITZ. That means more rushers than defenders. They can't block because there is no O-line left to pick up the extra rushing defender.
A blitz is when the defense sends defenders other than the defensive line to rush the passer. Examples include:

Linebacker blitz
Safety blitz
Cornerback blitz
Zone blitz
Delayed blitz

What you described was was often called an "all out blitz", where the receivers are left in single coverage and the remaining defenders rush. Of course, that would leave one defender not accounted for. Also, teams will overload on one side of the formation on occasion to get a pass rusher free. The all out blitz is used at times, but it's a small percentage of the 131 blitzs the Texans saw.

Defeating the blitz requires production from every player. The QB has to call the right play and right protection, then find the "hot" receiver. The center has to make the correct line call. The receivers have to read the blitz, defeat the press coverage, and find the open spot. The backs have to pickup their man, or float to the open spot. And the coaches have to design plays and protection schemes that can defeat any blitz that may come up.

It's not rocket science, but it's also not as simplistic as you and the Sporting News columnist make it out to be. I've seen everyone of the components I listed fail numerous times last year. That's one of the main reasons the Texans finished 2-14. The Texans are about to name a new coach. He took a QB that had averaged 2.5 sacks a game and more than cut that number in half. I'm going to have faith that Kubiak can take the talent we have (and will acquire) on offense, and have similar results.

TEXANRED
01-26-2006, 10:27 AM
Now in an all out blitz who's responsibility is it to get rid of the ball? Carrs.

Carr got sacked 22% of the time on a blitz. That is mind boggling, to me. 1 out of every 5 blitz's resulted in a SACK. Not a hurried pass, not a batted ball, not an incomplete, not a hurry or knockdown on the QB, but an honest in the record SACK.

anyone that can't see how Carr holds on to the ball too long with this stat is either blind or will NEVER be able to see it.

Now don't fool yourself and make a rash and humiliating post here Carr lovers and try to defend this by saying it is because the O-line can't protect Carr. It is a BLITZ. That means more rushers than defenders. They can't block because there is no O-line left to pick up the extra rushing defender. That is why it is called a BLITZ. Carr has to recognize these, and get rid of the ball. That is his RESPONSIBILITY.
Fine I will agree to that, only if you agree that the receivers need to get open in a hurry or need to be prepaired for the ball to be thrown at them at all times. If you are willing to agree to that then you would have to agree that it would be Carr's fault, the O-lines fault, and the receivers,tightends and running backs fault that Carr gets sacked. So then really it is the teams fault.

Carr didnt lose 14 games this year. The team did. We gave up many many 4th quarter leads and there were some games the Texans were never in. Its a team sport. No matter how much of a man-crush you have on Vince he will not step in and make the team great. Bush or trade down. Actually trade down but I really want Bush.:cool:

BigBull17
01-26-2006, 10:32 AM
Alot of the time, when teams blitz, they run strait through untouched. On a 3 step drop if a blitzer isnt touched at all, how can you get rid of the ball. Now im not saying none of it is his fault, but when you run a 3 step drop and a blitzer goes strait through and you WR arnt open what can he do. He cant get out of the pocket, so no throwin it away. No WR get open so you take the sack and live for another down. Now I know it doesnt always work out like that but it did happen more than it should.

ccdude730
01-26-2006, 10:38 AM
A blitz is when the defense sends defenders other than the defensive line to rush the passer. Examples include:

Linebacker blitz
Safety blitz
Cornerback blitz
Zone blitz
Delayed blitz

What you described was was often called an "all out blitz", where the receivers are left in single coverage and the remaining defenders rush. Of course, that would leave one defender not accounted for. Also, teams will overload on one side of the formation on occasion to get a pass rusher free. The all out blitz is used at times, but it's a small percentage of the 131 blitzs the Texans saw.

Defeating the blitz requires production from every player. The QB has to call the right play and right protection, then find the "hot" receiver. The center has to make the correct line call. The receivers have to read the blitz, defeat the press coverage, and find the open spot. The backs have to pickup their man, or float to the open spot. And the coaches have to design plays and protection schemes that can defeat any blitz that may come up.

It's not rocket science, but it's also not as simplistic as you and the Sporting News columnist make it out to be. I've seen everyone of the components I listed fail numerous times last year. That's one of the main reasons the Texans finished 2-14. The Texans are about to name a new coach. He took a QB that had averaged 2.5 sacks a game and more than cut that number in half. I'm going to have faith that Kubiak can take the talent we have (and will acquire) on offense, and have similar results.
bravo! :thumbup

sometimes people need to be reminded that its a team sport where if 1 person cant execute your chances of being successful drop. (oline, qb, receivers, backs and ends are all responsible)

KT-TEXAN
01-26-2006, 10:41 AM
Carr is obviously a tough competitor to be able to survive the beating he has taken over the last four years. My hat is off to him for that. However, since he has been beat down so much it seems he is now just too quick now to fold up and take a sack or throw it away when the pressure is on. I can't say I blame him, but thatís the case. IMO it doesnít matter who you bring in to coach this team, and I like Kubiak, Carr will never be comfortable and confident with the Texans and we will get more of the same. A change would probably be good for Carr anyway. The Texans have a new coach, new staff, new advisor. Letís get a new QB and make a fresh start.

VY is the man!

jerek
01-26-2006, 10:46 AM
Well yeah! If a 13 year old can figure it out, then yeah, its that easy. When your out of the pocket, a linebacker breathing down your neck, and noone to throw to, then throw the ball into the bleachers.

Think slowly, act quickly. Know what you are going to do with the ball at all times. Bottom line is the game has not slowed down for him yet.

I'm glad it is this easy, and I can't believe no one has pointed this out before. Your nephew available for the quarterbacks coach interview? :rolleyes: I am going to let this go because I agree with what appears to be your point - that DC needs to get rid of the ball better - but I surely hope you understand that playing QB isn't as easy as you are trying to make it sound.

It was an opinion piece. It was very biased as it was his opinion. Not very informative as it had little to no facts.

I don't care if we ditch Carr or not. At this point he is servicable. As long as we get better.

But as an outsider I found this article a joke. Comparing Carr's situation to Tom Brady. OH man that had me laughing...ask yourself this...Do you see David Carr in Visa comercials with his offensive line that is so good that call it "Visa's Pocket of Protection" or whatever. Brady's O-line is so good that Visa wants their security compared to it. Give me a break.

If nothing else the playoffs showed us that just about EVERY single Probowl QB looked like a total chump when their team couldn't protect them. That is the reality of football. If the QB isn't protected, he WILL look bad.

With that said, regardless of who our QB is we better protect the guy.

Never mind Tom Brady's O-line, defense, or coaching and system. What the hell would you bring all of that up for? Never mind 14-2 Peyton Manning getting done up like a JVer against the Pittsburgh D in this year's playoffs. Peyton is a perennial Pro-Bowler and if he retired tomorrow, a likely first-ballot HOFer, and he looked completely lost (and don't bring up his statline, say something stupid like, man, I wish Carr could be so lost: the refs jobbed the Steelers out of an INT and kept two of his drives going with BS penalties). I suppose Manning getting burnt like toast had nothing to do with his O-line too? All of you revisionist history writers on this board get busy, you got some 'splainin to do.

Look, the bottom line is this. I like Carr and think he hasn't been given his chance, and I believe that his brightest years are ahead of him: I just hope in a Texans jersey. Even if I did not like Carr, I am not sold on Vince Young, but if our coaches believe Vince is the man who is going to get things done right around here, then bring him on: I will be first in line to welcome him to the team. I just can't help but feel people have fan agendas they are trying to service here, to the exclusion of the reality of the game of football or what is truly best for the Texans franchise.

GoneTexan
01-26-2006, 10:55 AM
I say let everyone who has a say in the decision making process speak for whether we should keep or trade Carr. I take it as a personal attack on MY TEAM when an outsider says that our QB isn't any good. I'll let our coach Mr Kubiak be the spokesman for what the truth is and I'll go along with what HE states as the right direction to go. Call it blind faith, but without being in a position to fully know or do anything about it that's all I can go on. Personally IM Most HO.

After seeing our First Video of Mr. Kubiak, looks like he will be working with our Carr! I hope he will bring someone to compete in the QB position and make sure Carr does improve prior to our First Home Game... or there is going to be a lot of BOO BIRDS in the stands!:crying: I believe in our organization and will support our new HC regardless... just hope he has a backup plan just in case.:ok:

Now Let's GO TEXANS!!!:redtowel:

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 01:27 PM
Here is an article by an outsider, with no Vince Young affiliation (even though some of the board goobers have to try and add yet another Vince Young slant to it) that is actually a pretty honest assessment of Carr AND the team. It cites more than one other NFL HC/GM stating what they deem to be Carr's faults. And yet the Carr Coolaid drinkers continue to slurp it up. Put on the 'golden boy from Fresno' shades and just keep drinking fellows.

My point that I took out of this entire article is quite simple. The Texans have a Carr with a flat tire (PERSONAL bad habits for an NFL QB). Until that Carr is put in the garage and fixed, it won't work correctly and we won't win games. Doesn't matter if this flat tire is due to wear and tear, blow out, nail puncture, vandalism, etc. It is FLAT and it plays flat. It doesn't do what it is supposed to do in the manner it is supposed to do it in. It hasn't done so in a LOOOONG time now.

Until that flat tire is fixed, this Carr (and the Texans) are going no where. So all you Carr Coolaid drinkers just keep on sipping away. I personaly am for parking our broken down hoopty Carr till his flat tire is FIXED. And I am not a Young drafty touter because I love Young or UT. I just don't want to enter yet another year of watching this Carr wreck limping along on the field any longer. Put in Banks for all I care. He does better than Carr anyway, IMHO.

Hookem Horns
01-26-2006, 01:30 PM
I hope he will bring someone to compete in the QB position and make sure Carr does improve prior to our First Home Game...

I doubt they would do that, it might hurt little David's feelings. :crying:

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 01:34 PM
Here is an article by an outsider, with no Vince Young affiliation (even though some of the board goobers have to try and add yet another Vince Young slant to it) that is actually a pretty honest assessment of Carr AND the team. It cites more than one other NFL HC/GM stating what they deem to be Carr's faults. And yet the Carr Coolaid drinkers continue to slurp it up. Put on the 'golden boy from Fresno' shades and just keep drinking fellows.

My point that I took out of this entire article is quite simple. The Texans have a Carr with a flat tire (PERSONAL bad habits for an NFL QB). Until that Carr is put in the garage and fixed, it won't work correctly and we won't win games. Doesn't matter if this flat tire is due to wear and tear, blow out, nail puncture, vandalism, etc. It is FLAT and it plays flat. It doesn't do what it is supposed to do in the manner it is supposed to do it in. It hasn't done so in a LOOOONG time now.

Until that flat tire is fixed, this Carr (and the Texans) are going no where. So all you Carr Coolaid drinkers just keep on sipping away. I personaly am for parking our broken down hoopty Carr till his flat tire is FIXED. And I am not a Young drafty touter because I love Young or UT. I just don't want to enter yet another year of watching this Carr wreck limping along on the field any longer. Put in Banks for all I care. He does better than Carr anyway, IMHO.

This is your best retort to those who blew away your "It is all Carr's fault" rant a few posts earlier? Talk about a flat tire on our "Carr"?

If you didn't see or hear the press conference or listen to McNair on 610, get ready to see more Carr next year. I think we will see who is right on this one.

Tex-fan0604
01-26-2006, 01:48 PM
I've said it before and I will say it again - If DC hasn't learned how to throw the ball away by his 4th year, then when will he. I have a 13 year old nephew who throws the ball away on Madden, why can't DC. DC should know how to do this type of stuff already. Vince is a better quarterback then DC is right now and always will be.

Heck I don't care, take the kid from USC then, just get rid of DC. Or Chris Winke. Or somebody - anybody!!!!!

i have to support dc bc yall hate on him so much that it makes me sick.he is probably the only one really trying to make a play on the team.if he threw the ball away we wouldnt score at all.yall act like he didnt get a lot of first downs running the ball and a couple of hundred yards. dont tell me that the usc kid is better either vy maybe but not the usc kid.his just another kid like jason white from oklahoma that was surronded by great players.

SESupergenius
01-26-2006, 02:02 PM
My point that I took out of this entire article is quite simple. The Texans have a Carr with a flat tire (PERSONAL bad habits for an NFL QB). Until that Carr is put in the garage and fixed, it won't work correctly and we won't win games. Doesn't matter if this flat tire is due to wear and tear, blow out, nail puncture, vandalism, etc. It is FLAT and it plays flat. It doesn't do what it is supposed to do in the manner it is supposed to do it in. It hasn't done so in a LOOOONG time now.

wow....just wow. I can't believe that you can't see all of the troubles on this team and are pinning it on the QB. I guess you fall into the "Keep Capers " and "Keep Casserly" mode because Carr is obviously the root of our troubles. I gotta just say "wow" again. Carr is not Brady or Manning, but then again most QB's aren't either. It's a team game and please don't go thinking that great teams are only great because of the QB leadership. Just review the history of playoff teams and you will find that a great QB isn't going to get you there alone.
Until that flat tire is fixed, this Carr (and the Texans) are going no where. So all you Carr Coolaid drinkers just keep on sipping away. I personaly am for parking our broken down hoopty Carr till his flat tire is FIXED. And I am not a Young drafty touter because I love Young or UT. I just don't want to enter yet another year of watching this Carr wreck limping along on the field any longer. Put in Banks for all I care. He does better than Carr anyway, IMHO.

Wolf
01-26-2006, 02:12 PM
Problem with blitzes

I feel because we have no legit two way TE (safety valve for a QB)
we either have to keep the blocking/no catching TE inside to help or the catching no blocking TE out on route

also RB...defenses are not scared of our RB's to break one.(please don't mention the USC RB)

playcalling.. does anyone remember screens or any plays to try and slow a blitz down?

I have also see 4 man "blitzes" that has gotten Carr WHILE in shotgun :brickwall and they almost beat the ball to the QB

with that said.
like someone said..Carr hasn't been able to let the game slow down for him.. he is looking at the rushers instead of down the field and reading defense isn't his strong point :twocents:

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 03:07 PM
If you didn't see or hear the press conference or listen to McNair on 610, get ready to see more Carr next year. I think we will see who is right on this one.I am not local, so didn't see/hear any of that. I have no doubt we will see our 'hoopty Carr' back next year. I just hope that the new mechanics hired by Kubiak realize it is a lemon and have the backup in the garage preparing it/him for the day when our 'hoopty' finally blows his engine and gets parked.

In fact I am hoping he comes back one more year. It will be interesting to see how all the Carr Coolaid drinkers like the same old flavor yet another year and who they blame it on this time. Bob McNair himself has even caught more blame than Carr on this board. talk about :brickwall

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 03:20 PM
I am not local, so didn't see/hear any of that.

Well, it was online, so you could have listened or watched via the internet...

I won't comment on the NASCAR talk.

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 03:24 PM
Well, it was online, so you could have listened or watched via the internet... so I could hear yet again how much Carr walks on water without getting his pants wet, in McNairs world. Or the fact that Superman and Carr do their laundry at the same place and get their capes mixed up sometimes, but it really doesn't matter anyway? why bother. I got this board to come to and get those kinds of insane thoughts repeatedly.

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 03:25 PM
so I could hear yet again how much Carr walks on water without getting his pants wet, in McNairs world. Or the fact that Superman and Carr do their laundry at the same place and get their capes mixed up sometimes, but it really doesn't matter anyway? why bother. I got this board to come to and get those kinds of insane thoughts repeatedly.

You said the REASON you didn't listen or watch was because you are not local. Sounds different now. Are you a politician? :stirpot: :)

Wharton
01-26-2006, 04:04 PM
i have to support dc bc yall hate on him so much that it makes me sick.he is probably the only one really trying to make a play on the team.if he threw the ball away we wouldnt score at all.yall act like he didnt get a lot of first downs running the ball and a couple of hundred yards. dont tell me that the usc kid is better either vy maybe but not the usc kid.his just another kid like jason white from oklahoma that was surronded by great players.

Wow, cool! Thatís what my mom use to say about my room.

"Look at this pig sty!!!!! It just makes me SICK!"

I find it laughable that the only reason you are supporting DC is because of me. Well, wear your no. 8 jersey with pride and since your sick, puke on it too.

Itís easy for me to say that both Vince Young and Matt Leihart are better then DC right now, because they are. DC was better his rookie year then he is right now. You might think I am crazy, because the stats sure don't show it. But DC was not scared back then either. Allot of DC's sacks came after he started to feel the pressure, and instead of getting rid of the ball, DC pulled it down and ran - he was scared. Ever ask yourself why DC hasn't gotten seriously injured in four years even though he was the most sacked QB over that same time period? I admit it, DC is tuff, no question about it, but he also protects himself well - too well. Instead of standing in there, delivering the ball, and taking the hit, DC tucks tail and runs. Allot of these runs ended up as sacks. Bottom line, DC is damaged goods, let him go.

Honoring Earl 34
01-26-2006, 04:08 PM
:redtowel: Like it or not Carr will get his chance . So from here on out its up to him . He has a coach who is offensive minded and has been there .

Kubiak is a reputable QB coach who oozes QB play so Carr better be ready for some long days ahead because Kubiaks ready to go .

If this does not work out , I'm giving it a 50 % chance ... I'd let Kubiak pick a project QB to groom .

chall8
01-26-2006, 04:28 PM
As excited as I am about the Kubiak hire, I am under no illusion that he's going to be able to build David Carr into some kind of John Elway.

I didn't think David Carr was worth a #1 draft pick, and nothing has happened in the last 4 years to change my mind.

Any QB would've had a tough go on this team. But you can put all the talent you want around Jake Plummer, and he's still going to be Jake Plummer. Same deal with David Carr.

I think the author hit the nail on the head: (paraphrase) "Carr is a serviceable QB" but not much more. And it is THIS statement alone that makes a compelling argument for taking a QB. If you don't think Carr will ever take you to a title, why not start building with a new QB now rather than later?

Personally, due to salary cap issues I think we should run with DC for now and fix the other issues. If nothing else the guy has earned at least a chance to show what he can do.

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 09:25 PM
and he was the leading rusher in the AFC among QBs.

by the way, what QB stat does Carr lead in. Sacks is the only one I can come up with myself. Course that isn't a positive one, not in my book anyway. Leading Rusher isn't a QB stat that most pay attention to. Unless your Vick anyway. And Carr ain't Vick.

thegr8fan
01-26-2006, 09:51 PM
by the way, what QB stat does Carr lead in.-ME

You-.............(crickets chirping)........(chirp).........(chirp).......(ch irp)

nice comeback. thanks for playing.

bayshorebevo
01-26-2006, 10:45 PM
Originally Posted by thegr8fan
by the way, what QB stat does Carr lead in. Sacks is the only one I can come up with myself. Course that isn't a positive one, not in my book anyway. Leading Rusher isn't a QB stat that most pay attention to. Unless your Vick anyway. And Carr ain't Vick.





Go Longhorns......:rolleyes:
Neither is Young.



hopefully, neither one is vick

NFLforher
01-26-2006, 10:47 PM
[QUOTE=Sportsfan]First off let me say, this is NOT a 'draft Vince' post or an 'I hate Carr' post. I don't care who they draft, or whether they keep Carr or ditch him,"



Really? Then why do you find this article "good?"

Jack Bauer
01-26-2006, 10:57 PM
You-.............(crickets chirping)........(chirp).........(chirp).......(ch irp)

nice comeback. thanks for playing.

I've heard the same from you on a number of occasions.

Big B Texan Fan
01-26-2006, 11:12 PM
Go Longhorns......:rolleyes:
Neither is Young.
Exactly, thank you. Young isn't Vick, nor is he McNabb, Culpepper, Brooks, or Steve Young, Eric Crouch, or anyone else. He is Young, who is gonna be better than all of the aforementioned.
Prediction:
Young leads Titans (and Bud Adams) to Super Bowl in a year in which the Big Game is hosted here again. And wins. That'll hurt and ya'll know it. The only way it doesn't is if we have a SB trophy ourselves. Dream on with Carr at the helms.
All the while we are toiling in the NFL sewer still cuz we resigned Carr to a multi-year $100 million+ contract at about mid-season of his 3rd option year solely based on his potential. IMO we haven't even made it to the playoffs yet cuz it'll take at least 4-5 years for that since Carr needs all the right pieces around him to complete a pass. We won't make the playoffs with him as our QB much less win 10+ games a season.
Does anyone realize that when we get the #1 pick again next year (and we will) we'll probably pass on Brady Quinn cuz Carr is the golden child. And we won't be drafting Peterson either cuz we'll have Bush. I gues that'll make us a Bush with no Peter-son.
I don't wanna hear that if we draft Young were gonna still suck but if we go Bush we'll win instantly. Bush improves us by 6 games if Carr can hold up his end of the responsibility of being an NFL QB. We'll be 8-8 forever until Carr goes. Young is an investment that will not take forever to show returns. We've already sucked about as bad as an NFL team can. IMO we lost some on purpose. Why take a player that makes you marginally better for the sake of not going 2-14 again, rather 8-8 at best. Why not make the investment to be a 10-6 or better squad on a consistant basis season in and season out.
I like Bush, I like Carr, but they need to go elsewhere to be a success, especially Carr, it worked for Plummer. Kubes is not gonna be able to change the phsyci (sp) of Carr, he may help him to only get himself sacked 40 times a season but he won't make him a better decision maker, film studier (may help learn his way of studying film but won't make him spend extra off time with it), team guy, leader, etc......
Read the sig below.

Wharton
01-27-2006, 12:44 AM
Shows me you dont have facts or know what your talking about because when he rolls out of the pocket he makes plays and I have seen atleast half of his TD have come from out of the pocket, and he was the leading rusher in the AFC among QBs.
Tell your 13 year old to get faster maybe he would not have to throw all thoose balls away.

Geewhiz Hulk, if Dan Pompei can figure out what I am talking about, then why can't you?

"Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender."

You can't throw the ball away if your between the tackles. And, being the leading rusher among QB's is not a good thing if your not a running quarterback like Vick or VY when he gets to the NFL.

Jack Bauer
01-27-2006, 05:20 AM
Geewhiz Hulk, if Dan Pompei can figure out what I am talking about, then why can't you?

Not to speak for Hulk, but since when is Dan Pompei the ultimate NFL guru? He is just a columnist. Kinda like John McClain. Get my drift?

"Carr hasn't learned to throw the ball away and live for another play. Nor has he mastered the art of subtle movement to avoid a pass rusher, as Tom Brady has. When he feels pressure, he pulls it down and runs -- often right into another defender."

Tom Brady still has a semblance of a pocket, usually Carr does not.

You can't throw the ball away if your between the tackles. And, being the leading rusher among QB's is not a good thing if your not a running quarterback like Vick or VY when he gets to the NFL.

The first part of this quote is the crux of many Carr supporters' argument. When the pocket collapses on top of you, this gives the QB one option and that is to take the sack. I would rather take the sack than make a risky throw into coverage and risk an interception. Also, if your offensive line is horrible, it is a good thing that your QB runs well enough to lead the AFC in QB rushing yards.

I am NOT saying that Carr never causes his own sack, but the primary cause is, without a doubt, the offensive line.

Kaiser Toro
01-27-2006, 05:37 AM
It does amaze me that the Patriots lost their coordinators, had many injuries inlcuding the Oline and were down to the 3rd string RB and Brady still had a career year. He just has that ability to stay, side step or step into the pocket and make a play. It really is uncanny and the more I watch QB's it seems to either be learned after many years or it is natural. Brady has it and Carr does not. Hopefully Carr will get it one day.

HJam72
01-27-2006, 07:14 AM
Kaiser, that avator says it all. You gotta have a really strong arm to throw the ball all the way around the world and hit yourself in the back. :) How are we gonna find another QB that can do that?

I just bet you that Carr throws the ball away more than any QB. So now y'all want him to throw it away more? They'd be better off just running on every play. And some of you keep saying that they need to play to win! That's what he's trying to do when he doesn't just throw it away over and over again. Eventually, he's gotta hold it 'till they get to him or SOMEBODY gets open. Problem is, he's gotta run all the way to the sideline over there just to make it to 5 seconds after the snap. QBs with no protection don't succeed. It's THAT simple. Now, if some of you guys want VY, I can understand that, but Carr is NOT this team's problem.

Kaiser Toro
01-27-2006, 07:18 AM
Kaiser, that avator says it all. You gotta have a really strong arm to throw the ball all the way around the world and hit yourself in the back. :) How are we gonna find another QB that can do that?

I just bet you that Carr throws the ball away more than any QB. So now y'all want him to throw it away more? They'd be better off just running on every play. And some of you keep saying that they need to play to win! That's what he's trying to do when he doesn't just throw it away over and over again. Eventually, he's gotta hold it 'till they get to him or SOMEBODY gets open. Problem is, he's gotta run all the way to the sideline over there just to make it to 5 seconds after the snap. QBs with no protection don't succeed. It's THAT simple. Now, if some of you guys want VY, I can understand that, but Carr is NOT this team's problem.

Once Carr has his extension belive me I will be silent on DC until pre season comes along and see what Kubiak's hand holding yields. I have been a trade down guy for a long time. You should know that I feel that having a high priced QB, in the salary cap era, is worthless, no matter the name on the back of the jersey.

HJam72
01-27-2006, 07:27 AM
Carr gets happy feet and doesn't stay in the (collapsing) pocket. Carr doesn't throw the ball away enough (because he's still in the pocket). Carr can't block for himself. Carr can't catch his own passes downfield. Carr's not a good enough runner (leads the league). Carr is not a leader (of what? look at his followers). Carr doesn't play for UT and he doesn't have, "Who's the Heisman (hype machine) now?" labeled on everything with his picture on it in Texas. Most of all, it's David Carr's fault that Fangio sucks, Pendry is bone-headed to the core, and Capers fired the only half way descent coordinator that he had. I don't live in Houston, but I think a lot of you guys are so sick of seeing him in commercials and hearing comments about his hair that you're hating on his game needlessly. That and too many people just think that only one position matters.

HJam72
01-27-2006, 07:30 AM
You should know that I feel that having a high priced QB, in the salary cap era, is worthless, no matter the name on the back of the jersey.

Yes, and that is the one point that I definitely agree with. I just don't know about this money situation. I was hoping they'd let him look around and find out what he's really worth, which is bound to be less--certainly based on what this team has done for 4 years.

Kaiser Toro
01-27-2006, 07:32 AM
There are takes all over the place on why people are not Carr fans. Most of what you recounted I would not fall into those categories. My position has always been about cap and getting the right tools to help our anemic passing game.

By the way I am sporting my Liberty Blue Texans Jersey at work today. :texflag:

HJam72
01-27-2006, 07:47 AM
I wasn't really pointing all of that at you. It was only the silly joke at the first that was aimed at you (or rather your avatar). I guess it's the shear volume of Carr hating that's gets me all riled up after what he's put up with on that team. I don't think he's worth all that money either--or at least he hasn't been able to prove that he is--but, I don't believe he's a bust either.

I think he's taken a lot of hits and complained very little, shown a lot of guts and want-to, and done well when protected well (bad defenses with no pass rush). I'd hate to see him being told to hit the road. It just wouldn't seem right at all to me after being on what is I suppose the worst pass blocking team ever for a 4 year period of time and also dealing with only one real starting receiver.

thegr8fan
01-27-2006, 08:39 AM
I've heard the same from you on a number of occasions.Jack Bowwow only when you make an accusation or totally insane interpretation of what I actually posted. for instance if I posted that 'the fence was white'. You follow that with 'what have you got against black, you are obviously prejudice or something'. If you want to stick to a topic, and reply based on what I actually posted, then I would be more than happy to engage you in a MB conversation. Until then, keep spinning the web of illusion that you build in your own mind. I don't care. Its your mind and I won't be able to change it anyway, so why bother.

Kaiser Toro
01-27-2006, 08:43 AM
The topic is Carr not Bow Wow Wow. We do have another forum where discussions can be had regarding 80's bands. :) Let's stay on topic.

Maddict5
01-27-2006, 08:46 AM
As I said else, would you rather keep Carr and see "if he can be salvaged," or build a new and better team around a new and better QB? Seems to me the best choice is clear.

by this i assume you mean VY is better-well from what ive seen he likes to pull it down and run with it himself, he has a questionable arm and accuracy so it doesnt seem that clear to me

Jack Bauer
01-27-2006, 10:42 AM
only when you make an accusation or totally insane interpretation of what I actually posted. for instance if I posted that 'the fence was white'. You follow that with 'what have you got against black, you are obviously prejudice or something'.

That isn't the case at all and you know it.