PDA

View Full Version : Bush VS Ferguson


BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 11:37 AM
I have thought of the pros and cons of drafting both Ferguson and Bush and I have come to the conclusion that not only will Feguson be the better pick because we are filling a NEED, but because it makes more since.

Bush Pros:


The most electrifying college player I have ever seen.
Gamebreaker has the ability to take it the distance anytime.
He will boost ticket sales in Houston and bring in revenue.
He will be able to line up in multiple positions on the field
He will force defenses to commit to stopping him.


Bush Cons


He will not fill a need at the RB position being as we already have a very good RB.
He will have to split carries.
He will not be a factor in the return game because we already have an all pro return man.
After drafting Bush we will have be very selective about who we pick from then on, because we used our first pick on a player we didnt really need.
As seen on the Rose Bowl, when up against NFL type speed. It makes it hard for him to find room on the outside.


Ferguson Pros


Ferguson may be the most athletic tackle to come out since Orlando Pace.
He fills and immediate need.
He fits the zone blocking scheme perfectly being as he is quick and very mobile.
Will give Carr the security he has never had.
He will allow us to shift Pitts back to guard, and with one FA aquisituion, almost solidify the OL for good.
Trading down will give us more picks. We will fill more holes
He allows us to focus on defense later in the draft instead using our only second rounder on an offensive lineman.
Only 22 will grow into a monster.
Ferguson, and extra 2nd or 3rd rounder and an extra first rounder next year, in the long run has a higher pay- off than Bush


Ferguson Cons


Ferguson may not be head adn shoulders over other OT prospects.
Some of the fans will be upset.
We lose out on Bush and VY
He may be a bit undersized


I have put together an anology for our predicament.

If you were the poorest man on earth, and all of a sudden you found a 12 K diamond, just out of the blue. Would you do the flashy thing and have the diamond cut and put into a bracelet, watch, chain, grill:) . Or would you do the smart thing and sell it so that you could get a house, car, food, and clothes.

I admit that was kinda stupid but that was the best I could think up for an anology.:rolleyes:

Grid
01-25-2006, 11:46 AM
on the ferguson thing... alot of people dont consider him to be head and shoulders above some of the other top OT prospects like Justice and Winston. For that reason.. they feel it would be better to wait and grab one at the #33 pick.

Additionally.. some feel OT isnt our biggest oline need. we need interior offensive linemen.

Also.. Pitts is a better tackle than guard. If we moved him from LT, it should be to RT.

tulexan
01-25-2006, 11:49 AM
Bush will be a factor in the punt return game. He won't return kicks because we have Mathis, but he probably will return punts because we don't really have anyone to do it and he is a great returner.

There are still questions about whether Ferguson will be effective in the run game. I watched a few UVA games this year and it seemed like they never really ran to his side. No one questions his pass protection abilities, but there are some questions about his run blocking.

BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 11:55 AM
on the ferguson thing... alot of people dont consider him to be head and shoulders above some of the other top OT prospects like Justice and Winston. For that reason.. they feel it would be better to wait and grab one at the #33 pick.

Additionally.. some feel OT isnt our biggest oline need. we need interior offensive linemen.

Also.. Pitts is a better tackle than guard. If we moved him from LT, it should be to RT.


Good point and I have added another con to Ferguson because of it, but I have also added another pro for him.

And about Pitts. You also mad a great point. But I still think moving Pitts to RT would be great. Pitts isnt as strong as Wade, but he is quicker and a better pass blocker. Moving Pitts to RT and movng Wade to OG would allow us to have two athletic OTs that pass protect extremely well, and are still very good run blockers. Moving Wade inside I think would work to his strengths being as he is not excelent against speed rushers, he would go up against slower DTs and he is a beast in the run game and he would really be able to show off his strength.

Glacier
01-25-2006, 12:02 PM
on the ferguson thing... alot of people dont consider him to be head and shoulders above some of the other top OT prospects like Justice and Winston. For that reason.. they feel it would be better to wait and grab one at the #33 pick.

Additionally.. some feel OT isnt our biggest oline need. we need interior offensive linemen.

Also.. Pitts is a better tackle than guard. If we moved him from LT, it should be to RT.


Justice is possibly the most physically gifted player but....he has had some off field issues. I wouldn't consider him in the 1st round were I a GM. He has maturity issues.

Winston would be a great pick in the late 1st round, imho. There is another OT i was reading about who is a monster at 6'8"....i can't remember his name atm, but he wouldn't fit the typical zone blocking system. Ferguson in the top 10 might not be a glamorous choice but, it would be a sound conservative smart move. I can live with smart, sound and conservative moves.

BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 12:14 PM
Bush will be a factor in the punt return game. He won't return kicks because we have Mathis, but he probably will return punts because we don't really have anyone to do it and he is a great returner.

There are still questions about whether Ferguson will be effective in the run game. I watched a few UVA games this year and it seemed like they never really ran to his side. No one questions his pass protection abilities, but there are some questions about his run blocking.

I think with another off-season and training camp under his belt Mathis may become just as good at punt returning. I think the problem with him this year is that he had never done it before. He didnt return punts in college, but him getting experience and reps doing it can only make him better.


From Senior Bowl practice reports, Ferguson has been showing a mean streak and also dominating his competition when he is run blocking.I have read that from more than one source. He is up to 297 and he is probably stronger as well. Oh and in the zone blocking scheme the Texans run, sometimes quickness is more important than strength.

thunderkyss
01-25-2006, 12:18 PM
For me, judging Offensive linemen is really tough. It's just as difficult to be able to say since this guy did it in college, he'll be able to do it in the Pros. I mean these guys are going to be going one on one with guys who are better than the best guy they faced in college all day long. Faster, Stronger, Quicker, Smarter.... and you can't take a play off, like a WR, or a RB can. I really think this is the toughest position to fill. And next to QB, the most important on offense. The safe thing to do IMHO, is go heavy... pick the biggest most athletic guy you can find. Then pick the second biggest most athletic guy. You know don't put all your eggs in one basket, when you need as much help as we do.

tulexan
01-25-2006, 12:22 PM
I think with another off-season and training camp under his belt Mathis may become just as good at punt returning. I think the problem with him this year is that he had never done it before. He didnt return punts in college, but him getting experience and reps doing it can only make him better.


I have doubts about Mathis in the punt return game because it seems like his major strength in kick returns is his unbelievable speed. This is much more important in kick returns because you in effect get a 20 yard head start to build up your speed. Punt returns is more about making people miss and then explosions of speed. When I saw Mathis returning punts I either saw him fumble the ball or run backwards to build up speed and try to fly around the corner.

Maddict5
01-25-2006, 02:35 PM
Additionally.. some feel OT isnt our biggest oline need. we need interior offensive linemen.

Also.. Pitts is a better tackle than guard. If we moved him from LT, it should be to RT.

well its a pretty big need imo and with the trade down we can get quality interior linemen in the 2nd and 3rd rounds so we're all happy? and with no.33 we can get a mlb,te,de,safety etc. its the right 'football' thing to do

Peldon
01-25-2006, 03:35 PM
Ferguson just gave over 10 seconds of protection in one on one drills against Kiwanuka at senior bowl practice. I don't think he has been beaten by Kiwanuka yet. He also did very well against Tapp. Just imagine...10 seconds for Carr to throw...:drool: Carr would probably faint from the shock.:)

The Preacher
01-25-2006, 03:59 PM
ESPN was definitely hyping Brick today. Poor Kiwi he looked pretty bad and nine of his 9 1/2 sacks were in three games. One of those games against Ball St. and he plaed in the Big East. He made Colledge look like a franchise LT so it's hard to get too excited just yet considering the circumstances. It would be nice to have Ferguson though. I guess it's a little bit of a relief knowing Colledge will probably be at #33 cause they will probably take Bush. :brickwall

TigerBait
01-25-2006, 04:02 PM
I have doubts about Mathis in the punt return game because it seems like his major strength in kick returns is his unbelievable speed. This is much more important in kick returns because you in effect get a 20 yard head start to build up your speed. Punt returns is more about making people miss and then explosions of speed. When I saw Mathis returning punts I either saw him fumble the ball or run backwards to build up speed and try to fly around the corner.

I agree. Like it has been said before, Mathis is a build-up speed runner. He has no where near the quickness and accelleration that Bush has, not to mention the natural instincts and cutting ability.

TigerBait
01-25-2006, 04:06 PM
ESPN was definitely hyping Brick today. Poor Kiwi he looked pretty bad and nine of his 9 1/2 sacks were in three games. One of those games against Ball St. and he plaed in the Big East. He made Colledge look like a franchise LT so it's hard to get too excited just yet considering the circumstances. It would be nice to have Ferguson though. I guess it's a little bit of a relief knowing Colledge will probably be at #33 cause they will probably take Bush. :brickwall

I thought it was quite hilarious to say the least. Not Kiwi, although that is funny, but the fact that before D'Brick got out there, Mark May was looking for every reason in the world to say why he wouldn't be a top 5 pick or an elite OT prospect, then when he gets near shouting distance of D'Brick and sees him move around a little bit in like a simple walk-through drill he says he's the quickest guy he's every seen for a OT, has great technique (which he was bashing before) and will no doubt be a top 5 pick.

V Man
01-25-2006, 04:21 PM
I thought it was quite hilarious to say the least. Not Kiwi, although that is funny, but the fact that before D'Brick got out there, Mark May was looking for every reason in the world to say why he wouldn't be a top 5 pick or an elite OT prospect, then when he gets near shouting distance of D'Brick and sees him move around a little bit in like a simple walk-through drill he says he's the quickest guy he's every seen for a OT, has great technique (which he was bashing before) and will no doubt be a top 5 pick.

That is the Espn way, be so pro one way, then when proven wrong act then back track and go full tilt the other way. (remember USC before the Rose Bowl, greatest team ever)

WILLIEG
01-25-2006, 05:06 PM
We still need to draft RB/VY #1 because our draft position at #33 will allow us to pick up a quality LT, many sports commentators said that D'brick is going to the 1st Lt taken but that he isn't ahead of the group of other Lt's out there like Justice, Winston,Colledge, and Scott who are still pretty damm good. Don't get me wrong , D'brick is a beast! However that doesn't mean that the others especially Colledge who has been showing me he has all the tools like excellent technique and footwork that every great Lt has, can't be as good or even better. the draft is loaded with quality Lt's for thge #33 spot but we should be more concerned with quality interior linemen.

tulexan
01-25-2006, 05:36 PM
ESPN was definitely hyping Brick today. Poor Kiwi he looked pretty bad and nine of his 9 1/2 sacks were in three games. One of those games against Ball St. and he plaed in the Big East. He made Colledge look like a franchise LT so it's hard to get too excited just yet considering the circumstances. It would be nice to have Ferguson though. I guess it's a little bit of a relief knowing Colledge will probably be at #33 cause they will probably take Bush. :brickwall


I was going to point that out too. They were hyping Brick so much and then Colledge looked just as good against Kiwi and they said nothing.

Trap_Star
01-25-2006, 07:52 PM
I have thought of the pros and cons of drafting both Ferguson and Bush and I have come to the conclusion that not only will Feguson be the better pick because we are filling a NEED, but because it makes more since.

Bush Pros:


The most electrifying college player I have ever seen.
Gamebreaker has the ability to take it the distance anytime.
He will boost ticket sales in Houston and bring in revenue.
He will be able to line up in multiple positions on the field
He will force defenses to commit to stopping him.


Bush Cons


He will not fill a need at the RB position being as we already have a very good RB.
He will have to split carries.
He will not be a factor in the return game because we already have an all pro return man.
After drafting Bush we will have be very selective about who we pick from then on, because we used our first pick on a player we didnt really need.
As seen on the Rose Bowl, when up against NFL type speed. It makes it hard for him to find room on the outside.


Ferguson Pros


Ferguson may be the most athletic tackle to come out since Orlando Pace.
He fills and immediate need.
He fits the zone blocking scheme perfectly being as he is quick and very mobile.
Will give Carr the security he has never had.
He will allow us to shift Pitts back to guard, and with one FA aquisituion, almost solidify the OL for good.
Trading down will give us more picks. We will fill more holes
He allows us to focus on defense later in the draft instead using our only second rounder on an offensive lineman.
Only 22 will grow into a monster.
Ferguson, and extra 2nd or 3rd rounder and an extra first rounder next year, in the long run has a higher pay- off than Bush


Ferguson Cons


Ferguson may not be head adn shoulders over other OT prospects.
Some of the fans will be upset.
We lose out on Bush and VY
He may be a bit undersized


I have put together an anology for our predicament.

If you were the poorest man on earth, and all of a sudden you found a 12 K diamond, just out of the blue. Would you do the flashy thing and have the diamond cut and put into a bracelet, watch, chain, grill:) . Or would you do the smart thing and sell it so that you could get a house, car, food, and clothes.

I admit that was kinda stupid but that was the best I could think up for an anology.:rolleyes:

Notice how small the cons for D'Brick are....and two of them have nothing to do with his play on the field:twocents:

Grid
01-25-2006, 08:30 PM
yah but those are the same cons you would get with a few of the other Olinemen that we could very well have available to us in the second.

BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 09:44 PM
yah but those are the same cons you would get with a few of the other Olinemen that we could very well have available to us in the second.

That is a good point, but the pros list would not be as long for those guys.

AstroTexan
01-25-2006, 09:44 PM
I have put together an anology for our predicament.

If you were the poorest man on earth, and all of a sudden you found a 12 K diamond, just out of the blue. Would you do the flashy thing and have the diamond cut and put into a bracelet, watch, chain, grill:) . Or would you do the smart thing and sell it so that you could get a house, car, food, and clothes.

I admit that was kinda stupid but that was the best I could think up for an anology.:rolleyes:

I think I would go with the grill...

You do bring up a good point with this, I was looking at D'Brickashaw Ferguson as the best OT prospect as far as talent coming out, however he is only weighing 275 right now... I still think this is the best way to go with the draft.

LORK 88
01-25-2006, 09:46 PM
I think I would go with the grill...

You do bring up a good point with this, I was looking at D'Brickashaw Ferguson as the best OT prospect as far as talent coming out, however he is only weighing 275 right now... I still think this is the best way to go with the draft.

He weighed in at 6'5" 297 at the senior bowl this week and reportedly has dominated all the DEs at the senior bowl and has shown a mean streak.

BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 09:48 PM
I think I would go with the grill...

You do bring up a good point with this, I was looking at D'Brickashaw Ferguson as the best OT prospect as far as talent coming out, however he is only weighing 275 right now... I still think this is the best way to go with the draft.

As of the Senior Bowl weigh ins on Monday, Ferguson is up to 6'5, 297.

http://www.seniorbowl.com/2006/rostersa.htm

Oh I would love that grill too.:yahoo:

BuffSoldier
01-25-2006, 10:01 PM
Another thing that I have to bring up that I dont think alot of people are taking into consideration.

Yes, you may be able to get a pretty good OT in the 2nd round, and he would be able to step in and help the o-line, even if not in the same way Ferguson would.

But the thing that bothers me most is that we would have to wait unti the 3rd round to start drafting defense unless of course we decided to trade up.

And while this is a deep OT draft, and may have the top 4 prospects (RB, Ferguson, VY, Super Mario and Leinart) to come out all at once. If we wait until the 3rd round to start drafting defense, then we will miss out on a bundle of second round talent that could have easily been first round talent last year.

For example, Bobby Carpenter is a great LB that mayfall to the second round. I believe that he is first round talent that has been overshadowed by Hawk. A top DB like Youboty or Ko Simpson could also fall to the second.

By trading down will not only be able to use our second rounder on a player other than OT we may be able to get 2 by adding an extra pick.

My scenario- Bush+ 2nd round OT is less than Ferguson+2nd rounder+2nd Rounder

Dunta_23
01-25-2006, 10:08 PM
Since the Texans got # 1 I have been 100% behind the pick of Bush. But after watching the senior bowl practices this week its hard not to opt for the trade down and take the Brick, and maybe even Max Jean Gilles in the 2nd. But then the hype Surrounding Mario Williams as the best DE since Peppers is hard to look away from especially transferring from a 3-4 to a 4-3. Too bad we couldnt have 5 picks in the top 10 :drool: ... Im all for either 3 of these guys:yahoo:

Grid
01-25-2006, 10:13 PM
But the thing that bothers me most is that we would have to wait unti the 3rd round to start drafting defense unless of course we decided to trade up.


This is why id like to see us trade down, get an extra 2nd and 3rd, and grab Mario Williams in the first. We can address the Oline, and TE, and get a couple more defensive players on the first day.

infantrycak
01-26-2006, 12:36 AM
But the thing that bothers me most is that we would have to wait unti the 3rd round to start drafting defense unless of course we decided to trade up.

My scenario- Bush+ 2nd round OT is less than Ferguson+2nd rounder+2nd Rounder

There is no reason we would have to wait until the 3rd for D in a trade down. Using your trade down and get an extra 2nd, the team could decide they are better served by Hawk or Mario + Colledge + TE/CB. Lots of options.

Nighthawk
01-26-2006, 12:45 AM
Bush will be a factor in the punt return game. He won't return kicks because we have Mathis, but he probably will return punts because we don't really have anyone to do it and he is a great returner.

There are still questions about whether Ferguson will be effective in the run game. I watched a few UVA games this year and it seemed like they never really ran to his side. No one questions his pass protection abilities, but there are some questions about his run blocking.

Dear Dopey--

They're not going to draft Bush #1 and then use him as a punt return guy, even if he has done well at that in college. Too risky. They might do it a couple of times, but after that, no. Write if off.

WILLIEG
01-26-2006, 01:38 AM
I know people have there opinions and are entitled to them but i still say we grad Bush and deal with the OT situation in the second round. Who is the better player regardless of position: Bush, Ferguson, Williams. To me it is still Bush and GK already stated that they would address FA to help the team and with the list of FA this coming up year it could help our defense out. Returning to the 4-3 scheme is vastly going to improve the pass rush.

texan279
01-26-2006, 02:02 AM
He weighed in at 6'5" 297 at the senior bowl this week and reportedly has dominated all the DEs at the senior bowl and has shown a mean streak.

I was half *** watching, not really paying attention. I did see Ferguson take Kiwanuka to the ground once in a one on one drill when I was paying attention though. And while I was listening, all I heard was Cutler this and Ferguson that.


LINK (http://www.al.com/sports/mobileregister/index.ssf?/base/sports/113809781020900.xml&coll=3&thispage=1)

Ferguson missed the Cavaliers' games against Duke and Boston College, which meant he missed the opportunity to go head-to-head with B.C.'s star defensive end Mathias Kiwanuka.

That long-awaited duel in the trenches took place in Monday afternoon's spirited North workout at Ladd-Peebles Stadium.

Ferguson (6-foot-5½, 297 pounds) and Kiwanuka (6-5, 262) -- two sure-fire first-round draft picks -- locked up several times in flurries of jersey pulling, pushing, poking and grunting.

It's the kind of one-on-one fight the NFL scouts crave in their pre-draft analysis and they can only be found during Senior Bowl Week.

Ferguson was equally impressed with Kiwanuka, who gave good effort but didn't make much headway against Ferguson.

BuffSoldier
01-26-2006, 08:21 AM
There is no reason we would have to wait until the 3rd for D in a trade down. Using your trade down and get an extra 2nd, the team could decide they are better served by Hawk or Mario + Colledge + TE/CB. Lots of options.

I was talking about if we draft Bush we cant draft defense until the 3rd, because we would have to go OT in2nd.

LikeABoss
01-26-2006, 09:13 AM
I think some people on this board are forgetting that free agency STARTS way before the draft. You see what holes you can fill in free agency FIRST, then you use the draft to fill the rest of the holes SECOND. The draft is NOT the only way the Texans can acquire football players. Have people forgotten this? All this trade down talk NEEDS to stop!

nunusguy
01-26-2006, 09:58 AM
Barring some kind of freak injury between now and Draft Day in April, Bush will
be the #1 pick - I guarantee it ! Now whether or not we take Bush, or somebody else does because we trade the pick, I dunno. Who knows, we may make a trade and still get VY, but we won't use the #1 on anybody but Bush. Afterall, Bush is the BPA in this Draft.
And to me, Carr is so much like Kubiak's former pupil Plumber in many aspects, I'm fairly confidant that Kubiak will keep him.
Oh, and one more forecase: if we trade the pick, it won't happen Draft Day. This whole thing is far too important to risk some kind of Viking Draft Day fiasco.
But Brick looked good yesterday in the Senior Bowl one-on-ones against the
Boston College DE, I'd just like to see him go up against another highly rated DE so we can be sure that the Boston guy himself is really not less of a macth-up than we realize.