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texan279
01-24-2006, 02:03 PM
Sorry if this has been posted, but I searched for 10 minutes and did not find this posted. I am bored out of my mind so thought I would look it all up.

Chester Pitts - 5 penalties, 8.25 sacks allowed, 16 games played
Victor Riley - 4 penalties, 7 sacks allowed, 10 games played
Milford Brown - 6 penalties, 5 sacks allowed, 13 games played
Steve McKinney - 3 penalties, 9.25 sacks allowed, 16 games played
Zach Wiegert - 2 penalties, 5.5 sacks allowed, 12 games played
Todd Wade - 5 penalties, 6 sacks allowed, 9 games played
Drew Hodgdon - 2 penalties, .5 sacks allowed, 4 games played

One interesting thing I noticed is that in 8 seasons, Steve McKinney has never been credited with allowing more than 4 sacks until this season.

V Man
01-24-2006, 02:05 PM
Did it list the number of games that they played?

Just those numbers makes it look like Riley had a better season than Pitts, and we know that didn't happen.

texan279
01-24-2006, 02:07 PM
Did it list the number of games that they played?

Just those numbers makes it look like Riley had a better season than Pitts, and we know that didn't happen.

Yeah I forgot to post it, I'll add that now.

infantrycak
01-24-2006, 02:29 PM
Did it list the number of games that they played?

Just those numbers makes it look like Riley had a better season than Pitts, and we know that didn't happen.

Keep in mind Riley only started about 4 games at LT. The rest of his games came at RT or in part time play.

FYI also, for those who think of Pitts as a false start machine, he had 1 false start in 2005 and 1 holding penalty.

HardKnockTexan
01-24-2006, 02:32 PM
It'd be nice to see a stat listing the total number of snaps taken by each lineman. Also a pancake stat would be nice too. Games played VS Sacks just doenst tell the whole story IMO.

TheOgre
01-24-2006, 02:45 PM
Hodgdon really is a good pass-blocker, but he is overmatched trying to run-block.

ArlingtonTexan
01-24-2006, 02:49 PM
would like to see which site you got the nubmers from.

texan279
01-24-2006, 02:51 PM
would like to see which site you got the nubmers from.

http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp

infantrycak
01-24-2006, 02:52 PM
would like to see which site you got the nubmers from.

I'll take a guess and say Stats, Inc. (http://snap.stats.com/snap/pfw/nfl/index.asp).

Texans Horror
01-24-2006, 03:56 PM
Steve McKinney - 3 penalties, 9.25 sacks allowed, 16 games played
One interesting thing I noticed is that in 8 seasons, Steve McKinney has never been credited with allowing more than 4 sacks until this season.
I'm seeing where a Bentley or Nalen could help...

humbleone
01-24-2006, 04:29 PM
Sorry if this has been posted, but I searched for 10 minutes and did not find this posted. I am bored out of my mind so thought I would look it all up.

Chester Pitts - 5 penalties, 8.25 sacks allowed, 16 games played
Victor Riley - 4 penalties, 7 sacks allowed, 10 games played
Milford Brown - 6 penalties, 5 sacks allowed, 13 games played
Steve McKinney - 3 penalties, 9.25 sacks allowed, 16 games played
Zach Wiegert - 2 penalties, 5.5 sacks allowed, 12 games played
Todd Wade - 5 penalties, 6 sacks allowed, 9 games played
Drew Hodgdon - 2 penalties, .5 sacks allowed, 4 games played

One interesting thing I noticed is that in 8 seasons, Steve McKinney has never been credited with allowing more than 4 sacks until this season.

Nice post...interesting stuff. More fuel for the "we need to finally invest in an O-line" camp (which I am in btw).

SESupergenius
01-24-2006, 04:31 PM
Hodgdon really is a good pass-blocker, but he is overmatched trying to run-block.
I didn't see him get bowled over, is that what you saw?

I did see him seal his blocking lanes in some of the running plays.

Texans_Chick
01-24-2006, 04:40 PM
It would be nice to get a veteran guy or two in here who still has gas in the tank. The value of having veteran guys who have experienced success to help the younger guys along cannot be overestimated. We will likely have to overpay some to get these guys unless it happens with some sorta trade down scenario.

It was interesting to hear Chester Pitts on 610 talk about how he has improved from season to season. He says it is pretty much night and day from how it was his first couple of seasons. The learning curve on the Oline is steep, and when you make mistakes on it, you are exposed.

Whatever happens, it would be nice if we could get some consistency on our Oline, few injuries, and pass protection play that looks like a normal NFL team. They were looking better near the end of the season, but they were playing some pretty sorry teams.

Texans Horror
01-24-2006, 04:41 PM
From the same site, I plugged in Nalen and Bentley, who are MB favorites right now...

Nalen (16 GS)
4 penalties (1 false/3 holding)
2 sacks

Bentley (14 GS)
3 penalties (1 false/2 holding)
2.75 sacks

TheOgre
01-24-2006, 04:42 PM
I didn't see him get bowled over, is that what you saw?

I saw him getting pushed back/bowled over on run plays. Not every time but enough to have concerns. I haven't broken down film, but I have just seen it happend a few times to him. I will admit that my opinion is based on a limited body of work.

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Interesting stats. Anyone know how they assign sack blame? For instance, if a lineman is tied up with a rusher, but a blitzing defender runs by him, does he get hit with a sack? And what about skill positions and how often they blew their blocking or failed to pick up the blitz?

For some reason to me, these stats are great but fail to paint a complete picture.

TheOgre
01-24-2006, 04:47 PM
Interesting stats. Anyone know how they assign sack blame? For instance, if a lineman is tied up with a rusher, but a blitzing defender runs by him, does he get hit with a sack? And what about skill positions and how often they blew their blocking or failed to pick up the blitz?

For some reason to me, these stats are great but fail to paint a complete picture.

I would hope they use someone in the "know" of who blew the assignment. I don't know what you would do in a situation where the defense stacks one side of the line and there aren't enough blockers to get them all. Perhaps this is unassigned or the blame is passed to someone on the other side of the line. Good question though. It would be nice to know.

Texans Horror
01-24-2006, 04:49 PM
Interesting stats. Anyone know how they assign sack blame? For instance, if a lineman is tied up with a rusher, but a blitzing defender runs by him, does he get hit with a sack? And what about skill positions and how often they blew their blocking or failed to pick up the blitz?

For some reason to me, these stats are great but fail to paint a complete picture.
I don't know, but I just read on another of our threads that we gave up 68 sacks last year. Count up the ones listed in this thread, and we are missing quite a few. I know some of those were sacks given up by Carr. I wonder if they have a stat for sacks given up by TEs/RBs/etc.

Runner
01-24-2006, 04:51 PM
I don't know, but I just read on another of our threads that we gave up 68 sacks last year. Count up the ones listed in this thread, and we are missing quite a few. I know some of those were sacks given up by Carr. I wonder if they have a stat for sacks given up by TEs/RBs/etc.

We also played more lineman than are on that list.

rmartin65
01-24-2006, 04:53 PM
Pitts gave up more sacks than I thought.

JohnGalt
01-24-2006, 04:54 PM
I like stats like this, but they can be misleading for O-Line. How many times did the pocket collapse on the Right and chase Carr into the Left's pass rush? or vice versa? How many times did the RB miss the blitz pick up?

It would take hours of studying game film to properly rate the O-Line. That's what McNair pays Kubiak for.

In Kubiak we trust....

Runner
01-24-2006, 04:55 PM
We also shouldn't forget that the whole offense seemed designed to protect against sacks above all else.

humbleone
01-24-2006, 04:58 PM
From the same site, I plugged in Nalen and Bentley, who are MB favorites right now...

Nalen (16 GS)
4 penalties (1 false/3 holding)
2 sacks

Bentley (14 GS)
3 penalties (1 false/2 holding)
2.75 sacks

Good stuff...thanks OSO...refreshing to have something on the board other than Bush/VY posts.

infantrycak
01-24-2006, 05:41 PM
Pitts gave up more sacks than I thought.

Pitts was credited with about 5 sacks playing next to Riley at LG. Once he moved to LT, things settled down.

I don't know, but I just read on another of our threads that we gave up 68 sacks last year. Count up the ones listed in this thread, and we are missing quite a few. I know some of those were sacks given up by Carr. I wonder if they have a stat for sacks given up by TEs/RBs/etc.

I would hope they use someone in the "know" of who blew the assignment. I don't know what you would do in a situation where the defense stacks one side of the line and there aren't enough blockers to get them all. Perhaps this is unassigned or the blame is passed to someone on the other side of the line. Good question though. It would be nice to know.

I believe Stats, Inc. has their own staff who review game film and make the assignments. They have to take educated guesses on how to divide responsibility for the sack. They do assign responsibility for sacks to RB's, TE's and QB's, but they do not have a stat for it--it just shows up as unassigned to the OL. Obviously they would benefit from insider knowledge of the real assignments, but over the course of the season and for purposes of comparing league wide as long as they are consistant in their analysis it seems to me these can be a barometer of performance. Special circumstances/actual knowledge like Pitts playing next to Riley certainly have to be taken into consideration.

ArlingtonTexan
01-24-2006, 06:09 PM
http://snap.stats.com/stats/nflinfo/index.asp

thank you much...good information to have on hand

Erratic Assassin
01-24-2006, 07:27 PM
The learning curve on the Oline is steep, and when you make mistakes on it, you are exposed.

Not only that but it takes a while for them to get used to working together as a unit.

That's why we should have drafted linemen the last 4 years. We would have a solid foundation in place that we could put Vince Young behind.

And for those of you who will argue that GMs don't draft for position, explain David Carr. Was he the best player available? Or was he the best QB available at the time? Anyone who is honest will tell you that we DID draft for position with our #1 overall pick that year.

edo783
01-24-2006, 07:46 PM
We also shouldn't forget that the whole offense seemed designed to protect against sacks above all else.

Isn't that a scary thing. I don't think people realize just how bad our O-line and coaching were.

cadahnic
01-24-2006, 07:51 PM
The other disturbing aspect is that 26 other sacks came from Carr, the running backs, and backup linemen. Carr has to do better getting rid of the ball even if it means like many other QBs do throwing it in the back of his TE or RB, or just throwing it at the feet of a receiver. Most of the time he has enough athleticism to escape the rush he just has to make better decisions, I think Kubiak will really help him with his reads. We have got to cut down on the O-line mistakes though, because even at 42 we are close to tops in the league.

Texans_Chick
01-24-2006, 09:37 PM
Not only that but it takes a while for them to get used to working together as a unit.

That's why we should have drafted linemen the last 4 years. We would have a solid foundation in place that we could put Vince Young behind.

And for those of you who will argue that GMs don't draft for position, explain David Carr. Was he the best player available? Or was he the best QB available at the time? Anyone who is honest will tell you that we DID draft for position with our #1 overall pick that year.


I dunno, a lot of people at the time thought Carr would be a solid franchise QB. See e.g.:

Joel Buschbaum's (RIP :( ) 2002 Mock Draft (http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives2001/draft_2001/mockdraft_020602.asp)

"Everything about Carr indicates he's a franchise quarterback"--Kiper blather (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/QB_analysis.html)

Miscellaneous Carr Hype and Various Hooha (http://www.geocities.com/davidcarrpage/honors.html)

His college stats were pretty fat, as he became the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to top 4,000 passing yards and 40 TD passes in the same season (can you name the first five???)

I think any rookie QB who is a starter of a new franchise is gonna struggle. The multi-million dollar question is whether Carr with better playmakers and in a better system with better protection has the ability to become a winner in the NFL. Anybody that knows the answer to that definitively, needs to leave the MB and spend all their time stock trading or doing something else more lucrative to cash in on their pronostication skills.

As for getting linemen each year, you never know how a group of rookie linemen are gonna develop on a very thin team with little peer experience.

Just some thoughts.

stevo3883
01-24-2006, 09:58 PM
I dunno, a lot of people at the time thought Carr would be a solid franchise QB. See e.g.:

Joel Buschbaum's (RIP :( ) 2002 Mock Draft (http://archive.profootballweekly.com/content/archives2001/draft_2001/mockdraft_020602.asp)

"Everything about Carr indicates he's a franchise quarterback"--Kiper blather (http://www.nfl.com/draft/2002/QB_analysis.html)

Miscellaneous Carr Hype and Various Hooha (http://www.geocities.com/davidcarrpage/honors.html)

His college stats were pretty fat, as he became the sixth quarterback in NCAA history to top 4,000 passing yards and 40 TD passes in the same season (can you name the first five???)

I think any rookie QB who is a starter of a new franchise is gonna struggle. The multi-million dollar question is whether Carr with better playmakers and in a better system with better protection has the ability to become a winner in the NFL. Anybody that knows the answer to that definitively, needs to leave the MB and spend all their time stock trading or doing something else more lucrative to cash in on their pronostication skills.

As for getting linemen each year, you never know how a group of rookie linemen are gonna develop on a very thin team with little peer experience.

Just some thoughts.


best part from that article- "Buchanon could be the best pure athlete in the draft. He’s an outstanding cover corner who also excels as a return man. Buchanon was the Big East special-teams player of the year in 2001, and with apologies to Ed Reed, Buchanon may have been the best player in the Hurricanes’ secondary as well."

LOLOLOLOL

YoungTexanFan
01-24-2006, 11:42 PM
best part from that article- "Buchanon could be the best pure athlete in the draft. He’s an outstanding cover corner who also excels as a return man. Buchanon was the Big East special-teams player of the year in 2001, and with apologies to Ed Reed, Buchanon may have been the best player in the Hurricanes’ secondary as well."

LOLOLOLOL

What he did at The U, and what no one has been able to do under Fangio are completely different.

He was the most physically gifted player in the draft. He was also a better player than Reed at the college level, if not by much.

What people don't realize is that under Fangio, our number 1 CB never met expectations. Our number 2 CB always exceeded them. From Marcus Colemen with his 6 ints. to Daunta with his. Teams would not throw to Glenn. It is not a matter of talent, it is reputation. Teams will not throw to Robinson instead of Faggins or Buchanon. Buchanon, however, has more natural physical ability and playmaking instinct than Daunta. That is the truth. However, Daunta remains the better CB, regardless of minimal differences in ability.

infantrycak
01-25-2006, 12:56 AM
And for those of you who will argue that GMs don't draft for position, explain David Carr. Was he the best player available? Or was he the best QB available at the time? Anyone who is honest will tell you that we DID draft for position with our #1 overall pick that year.

The only cap and talent competition was Peppers. It makes no sense cap wise to take even a great SS like Roy Williams #1 overall. A great DE like Peppers can be justified and has a much better track record than Carr. Other than that, who from the 2002 draft can you say made sense both on potential and cap more than Carr. 2002 was not exactly the strongest draft class.

TexanFanInCC
01-25-2006, 12:06 PM
Pitts gave up more sacks than I thought.

i know, that cant possibly be correct...



...or is it?

doesnt matter, im still sold that he is a productive LT and he should stick around.

stevo3883
01-25-2006, 12:29 PM
What he did at The U, and what no one has been able to do under Fangio are completely different.

He was the most physically gifted player in the draft. He was also a better player than Reed at the college level, if not by much.

What people don't realize is that under Fangio, our number 1 CB never met expectations. Our number 2 CB always exceeded them. From Marcus Colemen with his 6 ints. to Daunta with his. Teams would not throw to Glenn. It is not a matter of talent, it is reputation. Teams will not throw to Robinson instead of Faggins or Buchanon. Buchanon, however, has more natural physical ability and playmaking instinct than Daunta. That is the truth. However, Daunta remains the better CB, regardless of minimal differences in ability.


Was fangio also the coach in Oakland? The guy was a bust there, why else would they trade him?

We only took him because we thought a change of scenery might bring out all that "atheltic ability" but obviously that didnt happen.

thunderkyss
01-25-2006, 01:18 PM
We also shouldn't forget that the whole offense seemed designed to protect against sacks above all else.


and DD still got 970(thereabouts) yards any way....

CoastalTexan
01-25-2006, 01:30 PM
So... this does prove that we need to improve our o-line instead of getting an impact player who can and will get knocked down again and again and again by our great o-line. Wheres D'Brick, ill sign off on him.