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View Full Version : Matt Hasselbeck's release reminds me so much of Carr's


SBTexans08
01-24-2006, 01:47 PM
Because of this....I doubt Carr's release will keep him from being successful in the stretch of his career as so many have mentioned. While side-armed isn't preferred....Carr's done done well in college, had somewhat of a good year in the '04 season and given an O-line and some coaching with a competent gameplan laid out by the coaching staff.....Carr will be just fine IMO.

Despite having a side-arm release....Hasselbeck has been, as of late, one of...if not the most, accurate passer(s) in the league this season.

And no...I'm not basing myself off of this pic alone. I've paid attention to him since the latter part of the season until now....more so than ever before and I happened to notice this about him.

http://images.forbes.com/media/lists/53/2005/FZ6E.jpg

Glacier
01-24-2006, 01:49 PM
Hey!

thats interesting info. I guess VY's side armed release isn't that big a deal either?

cadahnic
01-24-2006, 01:52 PM
A release is a release, people said Dan Marino's release needed work. VY's release will cause more passes to be batted down than a normal 6'5" QB should have, but his release is not his problem you should look at his other mechanics and lack of overall arm strength as his weaknesses.

HoustonFrog
01-24-2006, 01:53 PM
Hey!

thats interesting info. I guess VY's side armed release isn't that big a deal either?

It shouldn't be at 6'5. Truthfully I have no idea if Carr's is like that but all seem different to me.

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 01:55 PM
And interestingly enough, both Carr and Hasselbeck are good friends of one Trent Dilfer. :hmmm:

Good observation, though. Like has been said many times on the board, the QB is only as good as the team around him. Even the great ones went through bad times when the team sucks. Nobody can carry an entire team on their shoulders in the NFL.

66cobra
01-24-2006, 02:23 PM
VY's release will cause more passes to be batted down than a normal 6'5" QB should have, but his release is not his problem you should look at his other mechanics and lack of overall arm strength as his weaknesses.

I don't know if you have seen the same games I have, but for me, it is not a question of arm strength. I have over half of the Longhorns 2005 season on DVD and I have watched all of them at least 2x. His arm strength is great; in fact, in some of the games, his pocket was collapsing and he threw the ball over 25 yards on a line (using the sidearm motion) so hard it looked like a bullet to an open receiver. With him, the question is his pocket footwork. On several of the same throws I mentioned above, he did not step into the throw like 99% of the QBs in the nation are taught to always do when in a passing pocket. His feet were static in those situations and it would be interesting to see how strong he really is when he actually steps into his throws.

cadahnic
01-24-2006, 02:29 PM
66cobra ask any scout and they will say that his arm strength is not all it is cracked up to be, that may be mainly due to his throwing mechanic, but I dont know. Evaluating QBs is not my strongsuit, I am use to picking them off or blasting them on a blitz. Either way, you also bring up the mechanics of his pocket presence and footwork, which can all be taught. See I am not in the draft VY camp and come up with strange excuses, because I think he will be a solid QB. I see the weaknesses of all players and the strengths. Personally I am in the trade down camp, but as for the subject yes Hasselback and Carr have very similar throwing motions. I think all the QBs mentioned in the post till now can be, will be, and have been successful in aspects of their careers.

66cobra
01-24-2006, 02:34 PM
cadahnic, I too am not in the draft VY camp, but was just offering my observations on him. Yes, I am a UT fan, but I don't believe that VY is the answer for the Texans, at least for the time being. However, when you bring up scouts, we all know that scouts have been wrong before. I like Bush/Young alot but feel that we would be better served to trade down for someone like Mario Williams or possibly D'Brick, based on his Senior Bowl report. Anyway, I think Carr can still be a successful QB like Hasselbeck and Young will do just fine in the NFL.

HoustonFrog
01-24-2006, 02:35 PM
I don't know if you have seen the same games I have, but for me, it is not a question of arm strength. I have over half of the Longhorns 2005 season on DVD and I have watched all of them at least 2x. His arm strength is great; in fact, in some of the games, his pocket was collapsing and he threw the ball over 25 yards on a line (using the sidearm motion) so hard it looked like a bullet to an open receiver. With him, the question is his pocket footwork. On several of the same throws I mentioned above, he did not step into the throw like 99% of the QBs in the nation are taught to always do when in a passing pocket. His feet were static in those situations and it would be interesting to see how strong he really is when he actually steps into his throws.

I'm glad someone said this. I'm not a VY homer and have been for drafting Bush. However I have heard a few "weak arm" comments. His arm is the opposite of weak and it is one of his strengths. The guy can flick it down the field with no effort. The problem is that he rarely used it for deep balls and played in a more ball control offense, thus the passer rating. A good thing. But his arm is not weak and many scouts I have heard interviewed said he had the package, including that. Again, I'm not for him being the answer but I can recognize the freak talents.

bigTEXan8
01-24-2006, 02:36 PM
Hasslebeck also has a great o-line that doesn't buckle the second the ball is hiked. When Hasslebeck throws side-arm though, he's usually moving out of the pocket. I saw a lot of that during the Panther game. When Matt stayed in the pocket, his release was higher.

edo783
01-24-2006, 03:17 PM
The bigger red flags on Vince should be to check out why they had to simplify what was allready a simple offense (as reported in the press) and why he WOULDN"T do what Mack Brown wanted him (Brown said it himself) to and Mack just gave up on him and let him do his thing, which did work out well. Is this guy un-coachable? Can he learn a MUCH more complicated NFL system? These are things that will need to be answerd by any team in their due dillagence. They are big red flags to me.

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2006, 03:29 PM
Could care less about throwing motion as it has proved to be an optical illusion for some of the above average to great QB's. I am more interested in between the ears, heart and footwork when it comes to the position.

By the way, anyone whose method of operation that leads a team to a championship to the chagrin of their coach is a leader in my opinion.

HoustonFrog
01-24-2006, 03:31 PM
The bigger red flags on Vince should be to check out why they had to simplify what was allready a simple offense (as reported in the press) and why he WOULDN"T do what Mack Brown wanted him (Brown said it himself) to and Mack just gave up on him and let him do his thing, which did work out well. Is this guy un-coachable? Can he learn a MUCH more complicated NFL system? These are things that will need to be answerd by any team in their due dillagence. They are big red flags to me.

I'm not doubting you but could you explain where any of this has ever been said by Brown. The only thing I have ever heard out of Brown's mouth is that instead of holding back his talents they decided to let him lead. He also talked about how he started listening to rap music to relate more to the players and how Vince loosened up the team. I'm not sure how this equals uncoachable. Again, I'm not proponent of drafting him but I got called out for quotes on things I didn't like about Carr so I'd like to see the source for these.

Mr. White
01-24-2006, 03:45 PM
Again, I'm not proponent of drafting him but I got called out for quotes on things I didn't like about Carr so I'd like to see the source for these.

I wonder this story comes from as well. I second that motion.

TEXANRED
01-24-2006, 06:01 PM
How on God's green earth did a thread comparing Hasselwhatever to Carr turn into a Vince thread?

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 06:06 PM
How on God's green earth did a thread comparing Hasselwhatever to Carr turn into a Vince thread?

It's like Santa Claus. He's everywhere!

michaelm
01-24-2006, 09:39 PM
Hey!

thats interesting info. I guess VY's side armed release isn't that big a deal either?

World's Record Set/Tied:
Fewest number of replies to a NON Vince Young thread before it is hijacked by a VY supporter... ONE(1)

Previously Set/Held By:
MANY

TexanSam
01-24-2006, 11:45 PM
Hopefully Carr will become as good as Hasselbeck. I believe he can and I believe Kubiak is the man to do it.

bigTEXan8
01-24-2006, 11:55 PM
Hopefully Carr will become as good as Hasselbeck. I believe he can and I believe Kubiak is the man to do it.

I think that Kubes will have some work to do on Carr. He has to repair the damage caused by four years of sitting on the *** and twiddling their thumbs. I think that Kubes will be able to make Carr as efficient as Plummer was this year. I think one major problem this year is going to be working on the defense. Denvers D helped them a lot this year. So, as glad as I am to have Kubes be our HC, I hope Bates, if he is indeed going to be our next DC, that he can get some solid defensive players. .

NWTexan Fan
01-25-2006, 02:19 AM
Good post...as an avid Seahawk fan AND Texan fan, I get to see the Hawks weekly and I've always compared Hasselbeck to Carr. (well, in my mind at least)

It's funny because a few years ago the very same things that were said about Carr right now were said about Hasselbeck. This town had trouble believing in him but thank god Holmgren didn't listen to us and stuck with him! LOL....

TreWardTxn
01-25-2006, 02:25 AM
A release is a release, people said Dan Marino's release needed work. VY's release will cause more passes to be batted down than a normal 6'5" QB should have, but his release is not his problem you should look at his other mechanics and lack of overall arm strength as his weaknesses.

This arm strength question is real tiresome. Brady was known for having a fledgling arm when he came in the leauge, and through development with strength and footwork, no one questions his power now. Some of Vince's best throws are deep balls, if anything, it is his intermediate accuracy which should be most concerning. My point is, either arm strength doesn't matter greatly (as long as a QB can throw the deep out) or it can be tweaked to an NFL level...

TEXANRED
01-25-2006, 11:01 AM
This arm strength question is real tiresome. Brady was known for having a fledgling arm when he came in the leauge, and through development with strength and footwork, no one questions his power now. Some of Vince's best throws are deep balls, if anything, it is his intermediate accuracy which should be most concerning. My point is, either arm strength doesn't matter greatly (as long as a QB can throw the deep out) or it can be tweaked to an NFL level...
You have just summed up the point I have been arguing all in one post.

Why do we need to wait for a QB to develop NFL arm strength, foot work, and mid range accuracy when we have a QB who is already at that level?

The true argument that we are having is an argument of probables and unknowns. Is Carr a good QB and be able to flourish with a real QB coach and a system that is more suited to his strengths. Is Carr your franchise QB that will lead your teams to the promise land? Is Carr mentally capable of leading your team? My opinion, yes. From what he has had to endure from fans, media, and the team with the seasons he has experienced, he has still been able to hold it together and conduct himself in a professional manor. He has the accuracy, footwork, and arm strength. That is my opinion though and most feel diffrently. I have faith were most dont.

The second is Vince Young needs time to develop, at least three years to be good. He does have many things to work on to be an NFL QB. I am not ready to wait another three years. I want to win now.

Bush in my opinion gives us the best possible option of winning now. Putting postives in motion and bringing a winning atmosphere to this team.

AustinJB
01-25-2006, 02:29 PM
You have just summed up the point I have been arguing all in one post.

Why do we need to wait for a QB to develop NFL arm strength, foot work, and mid range accuracy

The second is Vince Young needs time to develop, at least three years to be good. He does have many things to work on to be an NFL QB. I am not ready to wait another three years. I want to win now.

Bush in my opinion gives us the best possible option of winning now. Putting postives in motion and bringing a winning atmosphere to this team.

While I agree that all of this is opinion, I don't agree w/ other points that you stated.

"Why do we need to wait for a QB to develop NFL arm strength, foot work, and mid-range accuracy?"---If you're insinuating that Carr has all of these, you must be watching a different game than I've been watching...especially the footwork portion.

And you don't want to wait another three years? You want to win now? Please!! We BETTER have a better record than 2-14 next year, but we aren't going to be contenders until 2-3 years anyway. Anyone that thinks otherwise is seriously fooling themselves.

TEXANRED
01-25-2006, 03:04 PM
While I agree that all of this is opinion, I don't agree w/ other points that you stated.

"Why do we need to wait for a QB to develop NFL arm strength, foot work, and mid-range accuracy?"---If you're insinuating that Carr has all of these, you must be watching a different game than I've been watching...especially the footwork portion.

And you don't want to wait another three years? You want to win now? Please!! We BETTER have a better record than 2-14 next year, but we aren't going to be contenders until 2-3 years anyway. Anyone that thinks otherwise is seriously fooling themselves.
Why can't we turn things around with a new system and coaching staff? Cowboys did, Panthers did, even the Giants after they fired our now consult Dan Reeves.

All year long everyone on this board said that our record did not reflect our talent. For the most part they are right. There are only a few key positions that we really need, a pass rush, a corner, a pair of safties, and a left tackle. We dont need a running back or a QB. The trade downers are the ones who make the most since out of all of us ( I myself am in the Bush camp). Our first pick should be D-Brick or AJ Hawk-but thats not going to happen.

With that said I belive that we can win with David Carr and only add to a tremendous back field of DD and Reggie Bush. That helps us now. Even if Bush is a bust you still have DD. What if Young is a bust? Who do you fall back on? Anthor 3-4 years of developing a QB so we can have this exact same conversation in three years? No thanks, I will take the immediate impact and win now and know we can win now as opposed to later.

thunderkyss
01-25-2006, 03:39 PM
Good post...as an avid Seahawk fan AND Texan fan, I get to see the Hawks weekly and I've always compared Hasselbeck to Carr. (well, in my mind at least)

It's funny because a few years ago the very same things that were said about Carr right now were said about Hasselbeck. This town had trouble believing in him but thank god Holmgren didn't listen to us and stuck with him! LOL....


If Holmgren were here, and he was positive on David, I'd believe it. But I wouldn't be so sure, that he would pass on Vince with David's contract FA status being what it is.