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TexasDiehard
01-23-2006, 04:23 PM
I am a life long Houstonian, a UH grad and a huge sports fan and I remember how excited I was when I attended Bob McNair's announcement of the "Houston Texans" team name downtown and the later introduction of the team logo. Bob did an incredible job securing a new NFL franchise for Houston and gave all sports loving Houstonians hope that the long miserable years of Bud Adams would be forgotten in the wake a of a first class organization that would put pro football in Houston on the right path.

The opening day victory against Dallas was probably the biggest single event in Houston sports history in terms of the wonderful way it made all Houston sports fans proud and it was followed by an exciting Super Bowl Houston that Bob McNair made possible. Bob McNair is a great guy and a first class individual who has done great things for Houston and a I thank him for it. Unfortunately, Bob has also proven to be a very unsound CEO of an NFL franchise. Below is a summary of his failed track record to date:

* Hired Charlie Casserly despite a very questionable track record on draft picks and free agent acquisitions. He was known then as a great compiler of player data who was clueless about how to properly evaluate talent. Not surprisingly, he has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans and not having Joe Gibbs as a crosscheck.

Veteran NFL minds knew Charlie road Joe Gibbs coattails at Washington and was out of a job when McNair hired him because the rest of the league realized that Washington succeeded because of Joe Gibbs superior abilities in spite on Charlie's talent evaluation deficiencies. Bob confused Charlie's strong technical expertise with sound talent evaluation ability and hired a GM who could only succeed if he had a superior head coach to make the ultimate personnel judgements. Then he hired a head coach who needed a superior GM.

* Hired Dom Capers despite a very questionable track record as a first class guy, but a head coach who needed superior talent to succeed, who was hyper conservative and incapable of inspiring a sound offensive strategy, who was not a strong game day coach with superior adjustment abilities, who had difficulty evaluating and hiring superior assistant coaches, who put personal loyalty in coaching personnel decisions above sound football judgement and who lost the confidence of his players when all these flaws became apparent. What a surprise that Dom had the same issues in Houston. Bob hired a head coach that could only succeed with a GM that was a superior talent evaluator and then shortchanged the investment in coordinators who could compensate for Dom's deficiencies.

* Hired Dan Reeves to consult. Dan is a great guy with a track record of taking teams deep into the playoffs without winning the big one. He is also a guy who has been out of the league for awhile because of the perception that the game has passed him bye. Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history. The basis for this being that the talent wasn't being "coached up". Does any serious football mind really believe the Texans have more than 3 or 4 players who could start on a playoff team regardless of the coaching? How can anyone believe retaining Charlie makes any since at all?

* Hired Gary Kubiak as head coach. Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level. The great successes in his coaching resume have come under Mike Shanahan and with John Elway at the controls of the offense. The Bronces have never made it to the highest level without John Elway. I hope Gary proves to be a great head coach, but he has been passed over as a head coaching candidate by countless other NFL franchises over the last 5 years. Hiring him as head coach of the Texans and giving him power over hiring assistants and player decisions is nothing more than a complete crap shoot with the future of the Texan franchise. The fact that the new head coach is a hard core Aggie with potential biases against UT players is not comforting as they consider the most important player talent decision in the history of the franchise. Aggies are never rational when it comes to UT, especially in the wake of UT's huge success this year.

This is especially concerning because Bob did not fire Charlie and hire a superior GM to lead the player personnel decisions. Instead of hiring a strong GM who could make cold eyed assessments of the Texan talent base and potential draftees and free agents, he kept a failed GM with a need to justify prior decisions who can only succeed with a seasoned, superior head coach who has mastered talent evaluations and possesses superior coaching skills. Amazingly, he has hired a rookie head coach to pair with a clearly failed GM who cannot succeed without a superior head coach. Unbelievable!!!! How did Bob McNair ever accumulate a huge fortune with such disastrous decision making?

In summary, Bob McNair's is a great guy, but his failed decisions are at the root of all the Texans' problems and there is no evidence that he has learned anything from his prior mistakes. This is especially distressing because there is no one in the organization that has proven to be capable of making sound personnel decisions at any level. This distress is compounded by the reality that the Texans most likely have the most valuable NFL draft pick in countless years and no one who can make the right call. Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate. Vince has unquestionably proven to be a superior athletic talent with icewater in his veins who is also a very rare leader who lifts all around him to over achieve at the highest level on the biggest stages in the most spectacluar ways. David Carr is a nice guy and a decent talent with questionable leadership skills, attitude and work ethic. Is he really the superior leader with the dedication and the greatest potential to lead the Texans to a championship? Who would you want at the controls with a minute to go and needing 75 yards to score the winning touchdown or lose the Super Bowl?

Bob, please, please do not subject Houston to the indignity of helplessly watching the Texans make the dumbest draft move since Sam Bowie and then possibly suffering the ultimate indignity of watching Vince lead Bud Adams to the promised land because you listened to the so called experts around you who have no proven ability to make even the obvious talent decisions. If you do this to Houston, you will have completely destroyed the last of the goodwill you have created in the hearts of many Houston fans with inevitable consequences for the value of your franchise and the spirit of our community. Even the biggest Vince naysayers among Texan fans will never forgive you if Vince lands with Bud Adams and takes the Titans to Super Bowl win(s). No one will ever judge you adversely if by some miracle David Carr or Reggie Bush ever wins a Super Bowl with anyone else.

All of Texas is watching you. You can win a lot of hearts if you make the right decision and lose a lot of hearts if you do not. The problem is that you have to dispassionately reassess your failed decision making process that made the Texans the worst franchise in the NFL in 2005 and focus on the big picture of the unbelievable opportunity you have with the first draft pick this year. Even Bud Adams had the sense to take Earl Campbell.

Wharton
01-23-2006, 04:26 PM
Oh please, lets not get this started!

Yall, lets leave this one alone and maybe it will just go away.

Grid
01-23-2006, 04:28 PM
Yah..the title was enough to tell me that this is a waste of time.. im not going to read it.

Im with ya Wharton..leaving it alone.

Texan Asylum
01-23-2006, 04:30 PM
Where's our "Draft VY or we'll forever rue the day we didn't." forcefield. Surely we can borrow some anti-spam programs and install them on this message board.

TEXANS84
01-23-2006, 04:33 PM
I had a strange feeling that this would develop into a draft Vince Young thread.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 04:38 PM
Agree or not about Vince. His points about Casserly and Capers were right on.

Sportsfan
01-23-2006, 04:39 PM
Wish i had the last 180 seconds of my life back after reading that. :thumbdown

FILO_girl
01-23-2006, 04:40 PM
Can newbies have restrictions on starting threads? That may help keep the peace around here for the next couple months. Will keep the VY and RB noise ratio down a bit. :)



*psst to the newbies.....Bob owns the Texans, don't mess with him too much or he will have your seats revoked!*:superman:

Glacier
01-23-2006, 04:42 PM
woot....the Bush fan b0i Vince haters out in full force today, huh? Someone pointed out something very interesting about ol Bob....

he is a billionaire and all that noise? business man, huh? He knows whats good for his wallet and it isn't Reggie Bush. ;)

chall8
01-23-2006, 04:56 PM
I read the post. While I disagree with many of his points, he makes a valid one in regards to Casserly and McNair's decision to retain him.

- Casserly was a questionable hire from Day 1, and since then he's done absolutely nothing to impress. I am completely convinced that a monkey throwing darts at a draft list couldn't do any worse than he has in rounds 2-7 (I give him no credit for Andre & Dunta as unless you're a complete moron it's hard to miss on picks that high).

- Furthermore, for some reason McNair is retaining both Reeves and Casserly (poor decision that apparently is causing a lot of politics internally). He needs to make a decision and cut one of them loose.

- I like the Kubiak hire a lot. This Kubiak faults Kubiak because there is "no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level". Well, guess what? There aren't a whole lot of active coaches who HAVE displayed a mastery of leading a team to "the highest level". Kubiak has a long, steady track history at Denver, where he called all the plays. He has earned a crack at a HC job, and I think he'll do well, PROVIDED that he is committed to bringing in a top-level defensive coordinator in here so he can focus on the offense.

- I would love nothing more than to see VY in a Texans uniform. But you can't draft him just b/c he's a hometown guy and will sell tickets. Bottom-line, winning sells tickets and the Texans need to do whatever they think will make them win the quickest.

JDizzle
01-23-2006, 04:57 PM
Is this a "Fire Bob McNair" thread? Is that even possible?

Glacier
01-23-2006, 05:04 PM
I like McNair as an owner. He had the sense to bring in a football man to evaluate his whole organization. That tells me he truely wants to improve. Long as the owner wants to win and is willing to back the franchise with money, I have no fault with him, which is why I support Jerry though just about everyone hates him.

jerek
01-23-2006, 05:04 PM
At first, I wasn't going to address this, but it seems like you are giving an honest effort. Some of what you say is correct, while a lot of it demonstrates obvious logical gaps. Here are the highlights:

* Hired Charlie Casserly despite a very questionable track record on draft picks and free agent acquisitions. He was known then as a great compiler of player data who was clueless about how to properly evaluate talent. Not surprisingly, he has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans and not having Joe Gibbs as a crosscheck.

Veteran NFL minds knew Charlie road Joe Gibbs coattails at Washington and was out of a job when McNair hired him because the rest of the league realized that Washington succeeded because of Joe Gibbs superior abilities in spite on Charlie's talent evaluation deficiencies. Bob confused Charlie's strong technical expertise with sound talent evaluation ability and hired a GM who could only succeed if he had a superior head coach to make the ultimate personnel judgements. Then he hired a head coach who needed a superior GM.

* Hired Dom Capers despite a very questionable track record as a first class guy, but a head coach who needed superior talent to succeed, who was hyper conservative and incapable of inspiring a sound offensive strategy, who was not a strong game day coach with superior adjustment abilities, who had difficulty evaluating and hiring superior assistant coaches, who put personal loyalty in coaching personnel decisions above sound football judgement and who lost the confidence of his players when all these flaws became apparent. What a surprise that Dom had the same issues in Houston. Bob hired a head coach that could only succeed with a GM that was a superior talent evaluator and then shortchanged the investment in coordinators who could compensate for Dom's deficiencies.

Somewhat true, but as much as I hate to say it, you are generalizing both Capers and Cass and working from hindsight. Though on a general basis, I will agree.

* Hired Dan Reeves to consult. Dan is a great guy with a track record of taking teams deep into the playoffs without winning the big one. He is also a guy who has been out of the league for awhile because of the perception that the game has passed him bye. Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history. The basis for this being that the talent wasn't being "coached up". Does any serious football mind really believe the Texans have more than 3 or 4 players who could start on a playoff team regardless of the coaching? How can anyone believe retaining Charlie makes any since at all?

Your misconception is that "playoff teams" start 22 great or even above-average players. They don't. This isn't an overtalented team by any means, but there are a lot of people (myself included) who would argue that we are talented enough as we are, maybe even to make the playoffs, or possibly, that we are missing only a handful of the components (i.e. big-threat playmaker, new QB, better OL, etc.). Amongst those of us who would make that assertion, many of us point to bad coaching.

* Hired Gary Kubiak as head coach. Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level. The great successes in his coaching resume have come under Mike Shanahan and with John Elway at the controls of the offense. The Bronces have never made it to the highest level without John Elway. I hope Gary proves to be a great head coach, but he has been passed over as a head coaching candidate by countless other NFL franchises over the last 5 years. Hiring him as head coach of the Texans and giving him power over hiring assistants and player decisions is nothing more than a complete crap shoot with the future of the Texan franchise. The fact that the new head coach is a hard core Aggie with potential biases against UT players is not comforting as they consider the most important player talent decision in the history of the franchise. Aggies are never rational when it comes to UT, especially in the wake of UT's huge success this year.

This is where you fall out of orbit and careen off into space. (A) Kubiak has not been passed over so much as he has received offers and many interviews, but has for the most part turned down the positions, opting to stay in Denver. (B) The UT-Aggs argument is positively stupid. Every coach has an alma mater, and no hiring decision is made on the basis of where he did or did not come from. It is patently stupid to assume that Kubiak will pass over Vince Young or anyone else because of where he played: everyone in the NFL played somewhere once, and there is absolutely no record of discontent or personnel decisions being made on that basis.

All of the NFL great coaches started out at the bottom and worked their way up. Since Bill Belichek, Mike Holmgren, or any other elite coach in the league this year is - surprisingly - currently still employed, we obviously had to take a chance on someone. Either give a has-been a second chance, or take a risk on an unproven guy. Kubiak is about as proven as they get, and it amazes me that you would write him off because he worked with Elway, assuming that Elway was the sole reason for Denver's success. Kubiak's offenses have been repeatedly successful and the Broncos were, last I checked 13-3 this year in a very tough division/conference.

This is especially concerning because Bob did not fire Charlie and hire a superior GM to lead the player personnel decisions. Instead of hiring a strong GM who could make cold eyed assessments of the Texan talent base and potential draftees and free agents, he kept a failed GM with a need to justify prior decisions who can only succeed with a seasoned, superior head coach who has mastered talent evaluations and possesses superior coaching skills. Amazingly, he has hired a rookie head coach to pair with a clearly failed GM who cannot succeed without a superior head coach. Unbelievable!!!! How did Bob McNair ever accumulate a huge fortune with such disastrous decision making?

No comment. Am I to speculate you were never one of his advisors?

In summary, Bob McNair's is a great guy, but his failed decisions are at the root of all the Texans' problems and there is no evidence that he has learned anything from his prior mistakes. This is especially distressing because there is no one in the organization that has proven to be capable of making sound personnel decisions at any level. This distress is compounded by the reality that the Texans most likely have the most valuable NFL draft pick in countless years and no one who can make the right call. Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

And how did I smell this segue into what was coming next?

PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate. Vince has unquestionably proven to be a superior athletic talent with icewater in his veins who is also a very rare leader who lifts all around him to over achieve at the highest level on the biggest stages in the most spectacluar ways.

VINCE BLA BLA BLA BLA (*edited for content*)

What is impressive is that you spent a good half of this extremely long post attempting to make critical analysis of the Texans franchise, and then the next half more or less blindly praising - yet again, have never heard this before - Vince Young. No matter how many times you say it, it don't make it so.

As for the actual meat of your argument, I have offered my counter-perspective.

Go wild.

I like McNair and he is new to this thing. As far as I can tell, he is doing a damned good job of juggling the whole three-ring circus. Give the man time. I have faith.

Lucky
01-23-2006, 05:12 PM
I've had to delete 4 posts from this thread due to language violations. Let's try to keep it clean.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 05:32 PM
I've had to delete 4 posts from this thread due to language violations. Let's try to keep it clean.

You guys don't have a bad language filter on this board? I have one on the TexansTalk.com board. For example, if someone types in a - hole (the whole word), it comes out as "Bud Adams".

infantrycak
01-23-2006, 05:34 PM
You guys don't have a bad language filter on this board? I have one on the TexansTalk.com board. For example, if someone types in a - hole (the whole word), it comes out as "Bud Adams".

Well, we will have to look into one as creative as yours, but unfortunately some people seem to be more interested and talented at getting around language filters than in analyzing football. Maybe someone can start them a creative bad language MB.

Double Barrel
01-23-2006, 05:35 PM
I've read the inititial post, and was giving TexasDiehard the benefit of the doubt....until I read this part:

PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate.

C'mon now. Before the VY blast, he states that Kubiak has revealed "no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level."

But you already have Young in the football hall of fame?! He hasn't played a down of NFL football, so he's just as untested as the rest of the 2006 draftees.

With such jumps in logic, and blatant inability to support one argument while refraining from diminishing another, I just can't take this thread too seriously.

Bob McNair has been an NFL owner for four (4) freakin' years. Dude had enough business savy to get around the league's apparent desire to give LA a franchise, and he was able to convince the league to give us a team in spite of the odds.

Learn a little NFL history, and more to the point, about NFL owners. Once you have an educated understanding about the past, you might be able to offer a convincing argument about Mr. McNair's job performance as an NFL owner. Otherwise, this is just nonsense at this point in our brief history as a franchise. :hmmm:

Porky
01-23-2006, 05:36 PM
Welcome to the boards. You have some really good hits, and some really bad misses here, but on balance, you do make one interesting point. I was especially taken by your analysis of the smybiotic relationship of Capers and Casserly. I think it's a great point. Both guys needed the opposite of what the other was to succeed. I haven't seen that analysis elsewhere, but I think it's a VERY well taken point.

Elsewhere, you are prone to exageration, hyperbole, guesswork, esp, and deception to make your pro Vince arguments.

A few points that stand out on the negative:

CC has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans

Wow. CC hasn't had great drafts, but that's a MAJOR stretch. Try again.

Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history.

Dan's contribution was to tell Mcnair what ails the franchise according to Dan. Apparently, Dan disagrees with you. Maybe Mcnair should hire you instead since you seem to have all the answers. And again, an extreme exagraration of Casserly's record.

Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level.

Of course there isn't. There also is no evidence he can't, but you left that out to make your point. No coordinator has proof. Hiring anyone without HC is a bit of a crapshoot. Of course the Capers hiring, who did have HC worked out so great didn't it. Using your philosphy, the NFL would simply recycle the same 32 coaches. Maybe we should have hired Don Shula.

Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

Kubiak hasn't even been hired yet, and it's not even Feb but somehow the Texans have screwed up the pick? How can you even possibly know what they are going to do, or is your name Kreskin? Even if they don't take Vince, and take Reggie, we won't know for several years who screwed up, and who didn't. Try taking a chill pill.

If you do this to Houston, you will have completely destroyed the last of the goodwill you have created in the hearts of many Houston fans with inevitable consequences for the value of your franchise and the spirit of our community.

Speak for yourself. Not taking Vince won't do a thing to me. It will to the UT fans that want Vince. I am a Texans fan, and yes, I think Young is the right choice, but you fail to point out any of the pitfalls, or any of his weaknesses. Like any prospect, he is not a no risk pick, and you lost your chance at any real objective analyis and showed your true colors at what I will call the "Vince is God. All kneel before thee" section. I am a huge Vince fan, but this is getting really annoying. :brickwall

LoneStarState
01-23-2006, 06:44 PM
It had to be said. Maybe those with all the grand ideas should pool the change out of their piggy banks and buy an NFL team they can run into the ground themselves.

Mr. McNair should be THANKED profusely for bringing us a team!

rmartin65
01-23-2006, 06:56 PM
Wasn't there a sticky thread saying please stop making new VY/RB threads?

Kaiser Toro
01-23-2006, 07:01 PM
McNair may be the root of the problem you have with the Texans, but the man put his money, name and time to produce this thing we call the Houston Texans. He is the one that had the vision and executable business plan to bring football back to Houston.

If you don't like the product ding him for not hiring the right guys. He is an owner and needs to have that type of feedback from his consumers. But to say that he is the root of all problems, when the state of the business is extremely healthy is asinine.

run-david-run
01-23-2006, 07:18 PM
Wow!!! After all we have heard from Denver is how responsible Gary was Denver's sucess and it being widely accepted he is one of the top candidates for a HC job, we have already started this? At lest wait until we dont draft VY before you compain about Kubiak. By the way, most coaches were coordinates at some point in their career, you have to start at some point, there is no indication guaranteeing he will or wont suceed, it will depend on on much more then how many years of head coaching jobs he has previously held.

stevo3883
01-23-2006, 07:20 PM
McNair may be the root of the problem you have with the Texans, but the man put his money, name and time to produce this thing we call the Houston Texans. He is the one that had the vision and executable business plan to bring football back to Houston.



LIES, every year in Madden I had the foresight and unique vision to create the Houston Apollos (i liked it before it was an option)

I put my $30 on the line every year! WHERE IS MY PARADE?!?!

Grid
01-23-2006, 07:22 PM
ok.. seeing as we now have 2 pages of replies.. ill go ahead and throw in something.

-Casserly

Im no big Casserly fan.. personally I think hes a pr*ck. But saying he has a bad track record in the draft isnt accurate His draft record is actually pretty good. His mistakes came in free agency.. and in his defense, its real hard to convince good free agents to come to an expansion team that has never had a winning season. This is also why he has overpaid for players who were not quite "elite". People say he has a bad track record in the middle rounds.. and this isnt quite true either. he has had a couple of "bad" picks.. but for the most part has done a good job of bringing in solid talent. Unfortunatly he has also traded away middle round picks more than once. One with Babin (who isnt a bust yet.. lets quit acting like he is) and then with Buchanan.. which falls under "bad free agency move" not "bad draft move"

So.. taking all of that into account.. I wouldnt have MINDED seeing im gone with Capers.. but I am not disgusted with his performance.. I see good things in it, and I see some reasons for his bad moves. Therefore.. giving him another chance doesnt strike me as a bad move. Especially with McNair taking a bigger role in what Casserly does.. and having Reeves there to double check things.


-McNair

Leave him alone. Awesome guy.. intelligent guy.. hes done his best to this point and hasnt done a bad job. He is still learning too.. you should go to bed every night thanking your lucky stars that we have an owner as good as him, that understands that his team will do better if he leaves the running of the team to the professionals.

When you put up 700 million dollars to bring the NFL to Houston.. THEN you can talk, or if McNair starts acting like JJ or Bud Adams..as things are, lay off him, you have no right.

chuckm
01-23-2006, 07:29 PM
I am a life long Houstonian, a UH grad and a huge sports fan and I remember how excited I was when I attended Bob McNair's announcement of the "Houston Texans" team name downtown and the later introduction of the team logo. Bob did an incredible job securing a new NFL franchise for Houston and gave all sports loving Houstonians hope that the long miserable years of Bud Adams would be forgotten in the wake a of a first class organization that would put pro football in Houston on the right path.

The opening day victory against Dallas was probably the biggest single event in Houston sports history in terms of the wonderful way it made all Houston sports fans proud and it was followed by an exciting Super Bowl Houston that Bob McNair made possible. Bob McNair is a great guy and a first class individual who has done great things for Houston and a I thank him for it. Unfortunately, Bob has also proven to be a very unsound CEO of an NFL franchise. Below is a summary of his failed track record to date:

* Hired Charlie Casserly despite a very questionable track record on draft picks and free agent acquisitions. He was known then as a great compiler of player data who was clueless about how to properly evaluate talent. Not surprisingly, he has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans and not having Joe Gibbs as a crosscheck.

Veteran NFL minds knew Charlie road Joe Gibbs coattails at Washington and was out of a job when McNair hired him because the rest of the league realized that Washington succeeded because of Joe Gibbs superior abilities in spite on Charlie's talent evaluation deficiencies. Bob confused Charlie's strong technical expertise with sound talent evaluation ability and hired a GM who could only succeed if he had a superior head coach to make the ultimate personnel judgements. Then he hired a head coach who needed a superior GM.

* Hired Dom Capers despite a very questionable track record as a first class guy, but a head coach who needed superior talent to succeed, who was hyper conservative and incapable of inspiring a sound offensive strategy, who was not a strong game day coach with superior adjustment abilities, who had difficulty evaluating and hiring superior assistant coaches, who put personal loyalty in coaching personnel decisions above sound football judgement and who lost the confidence of his players when all these flaws became apparent. What a surprise that Dom had the same issues in Houston. Bob hired a head coach that could only succeed with a GM that was a superior talent evaluator and then shortchanged the investment in coordinators who could compensate for Dom's deficiencies.

* Hired Dan Reeves to consult. Dan is a great guy with a track record of taking teams deep into the playoffs without winning the big one. He is also a guy who has been out of the league for awhile because of the perception that the game has passed him bye. Dan's contribution is to convince Bob to do the obvious and fire Capers, but to amazingly retain Charlie despite one of the worst draft and free agent track records in league history. The basis for this being that the talent wasn't being "coached up". Does any serious football mind really believe the Texans have more than 3 or 4 players who could start on a playoff team regardless of the coaching? How can anyone believe retaining Charlie makes any since at all?

* Hired Gary Kubiak as head coach. Gary may or may not be a good coach but there is absolutely no evidence that he can master the complexities of leading a NFL franchise to the highest level. The great successes in his coaching resume have come under Mike Shanahan and with John Elway at the controls of the offense. The Bronces have never made it to the highest level without John Elway. I hope Gary proves to be a great head coach, but he has been passed over as a head coaching candidate by countless other NFL franchises over the last 5 years. Hiring him as head coach of the Texans and giving him power over hiring assistants and player decisions is nothing more than a complete crap shoot with the future of the Texan franchise. The fact that the new head coach is a hard core Aggie with potential biases against UT players is not comforting as they consider the most important player talent decision in the history of the franchise. Aggies are never rational when it comes to UT, especially in the wake of UT's huge success this year.

This is especially concerning because Bob did not fire Charlie and hire a superior GM to lead the player personnel decisions. Instead of hiring a strong GM who could make cold eyed assessments of the Texan talent base and potential draftees and free agents, he kept a failed GM with a need to justify prior decisions who can only succeed with a seasoned, superior head coach who has mastered talent evaluations and possesses superior coaching skills. Amazingly, he has hired a rookie head coach to pair with a clearly failed GM who cannot succeed without a superior head coach. Unbelievable!!!! How did Bob McNair ever accumulate a huge fortune with such disastrous decision making?

In summary, Bob McNair's is a great guy, but his failed decisions are at the root of all the Texans' problems and there is no evidence that he has learned anything from his prior mistakes. This is especially distressing because there is no one in the organization that has proven to be capable of making sound personnel decisions at any level. This distress is compounded by the reality that the Texans most likely have the most valuable NFL draft pick in countless years and no one who can make the right call. Everything points to the Texans screwing up the first pick in the draft and passing on the most superior football talent in a generation.

PLEASE BOB, STOP AND THINK!!! Vince Young is a phenomenon that cannot be microanalyzed or left to unproven coaches or failed GMs to evaluate. Vince has unquestionably proven to be a superior athletic talent with icewater in his veins who is also a very rare leader who lifts all around him to over achieve at the highest level on the biggest stages in the most spectacluar ways. David Carr is a nice guy and a decent talent with questionable leadership skills, attitude and work ethic. Is he really the superior leader with the dedication and the greatest potential to lead the Texans to a championship? Who would you want at the controls with a minute to go and needing 75 yards to score the winning touchdown or lose the Super Bowl?

Bob, please, please do not subject Houston to the indignity of helplessly watching the Texans make the dumbest draft move since Sam Bowie and then possibly suffering the ultimate indignity of watching Vince lead Bud Adams to the promised land because you listened to the so called experts around you who have no proven ability to make even the obvious talent decisions. If you do this to Houston, you will have completely destroyed the last of the goodwill you have created in the hearts of many Houston fans with inevitable consequences for the value of your franchise and the spirit of our community. Even the biggest Vince naysayers among Texan fans will never forgive you if Vince lands with Bud Adams and takes the Titans to Super Bowl win(s). No one will ever judge you adversely if by some miracle David Carr or Reggie Bush ever wins a Super Bowl with anyone else.

All of Texas is watching you. You can win a lot of hearts if you make the right decision and lose a lot of hearts if you do not. The problem is that you have to dispassionately reassess your failed decision making process that made the Texans the worst franchise in the NFL in 2005 and focus on the big picture of the unbelievable opportunity you have with the first draft pick this year. Even Bud Adams had the sense to take Earl Campbell.



welcome to the message board ... you're a natural

TexanSam
01-23-2006, 07:31 PM
You are somewhat correct on Casserly and his drafts. They aren't the best drafts in the world, but were we all complaining after the first three seasons? He has found Domanick Davis, the rookie of the year in 2003. He also found Dunta Robinson, 2nd in ROY voting in 2004, and Jerome Mathis this year was an All-Pro in special teams. Andre Johnson was also a Pro Bowler last year. The jury is still out on David Carr, but the potential is there, we just haven't given him any weapons or a decent pass-protection offensive line. Travis Johnson is only a rookie and lets see how he does with a good defensive coordinator. To say his drafts are terrible is a stretch.

FirstTexansFan
01-23-2006, 07:32 PM
Maybe we should require an IQ test before you can create a new account on the boards? After passing, you need to submit a 500 word essay on your knowledge of football. Unsubstantiated opinions are so much fun to read, and when you post them again and again, eventually you conVINCE yourself they are the truth :)

Wolf
01-23-2006, 07:34 PM
I didn't read any of it.. Here are my thoughts on Casserly.

Track record spotty..The Texans took some projects or "boom or bust" players .. (hollings for example) , but I also think coaching was horrible here where we didn't get the best out of our players..

yet there is a reason or has to be a reason Bob kept Charlie.. and must have been something throughout the 3 drafts. Now was that Vic or Dom convincing Charlie to go with a certain player or what.. Yes the GM is responsible for getting the players, yet I just wonder who had the most say.

Wolf
01-23-2006, 07:35 PM
Maybe we should require an IQ test before you can create a new account on the boards? After passing, you need to submit a 500 word essay on your knowledge of football. Unsubstantiated opinions are so much fun to read, and when you post them again and again, eventually you conVINCE yourself they are the truth :)

I wished that worked, but I went to work at 3m in Austin a few years back for fiberoptics.. they had a math test/physics test/and teamwork test (nothing hard just basic kinda like the ASVAB) ..still I have no idea how some people got through that. :confused:

Mr. White
01-23-2006, 10:10 PM
I wished that worked, but I went to work at 3m in Austin a few years back for fiberoptics.. they had a math test/physics test/and teamwork test (nothing hard just basic kinda like the ASVAB) ..still I have no idea how some people got through that. :confused:

You're not kidding , Wolf. I worked there too back then. I have NO idea how some of those people got through. If they can get through that battery, then there's no hope for the best and brightest on a MB.

At least the thread starter put some thought in his posts....

Errant Hothy
01-23-2006, 10:47 PM
Without McNair and his big sack o'Cash this MB wouldn't exist (would that be a bad thing about this timne of year, every year?).

So untill you are succesful enough in the real world to pony up 700 MILLION dollars or atleast the assests to equal that amount, be thankful the NFL is in Houston again.

Is it me oir have we nearly gotten as bad as New York fans? and we did it in 4 seasons.

Ibar_Harry
01-23-2006, 11:04 PM
I for one am not all that thrilled with the Kubiack hire. I would assume that the retained and named assistants have had the blessing of Kubiack, but there has been no statement saying such. Again with the playoffs going on Kubiack was supposidly off limits.

The 1st Texans coaching staff including head coach and assistants have left the Texans in a state of shambles. As I have stated in other posts to me the most important decisions to be made by Bob McNair are with respect to his coaching staff and not the draft. The draft should take care of itself if the right staff is hired. This ball club badly needs a staff that can develop the talent we already have as well as any new FA's and draftees we attain. We need a staff of coaches' coaches to right this sinking ship. We have a number of players who have talent, but who have been coached into mediocrity at best.

I will take two players in particular, DROB and AJ, and say they are nowhere near where they should be at this point in their careers. DROB is probably further along than AJ, but last year was a total waste. Both digressed from their previous season or seasons. I honestly do not believe that AJ has any idea of what he really should be doing and how he should really dominate other teams. His receiver skills are quite frankly below average as far as I am concerned and there is no way at the present time he compares to Moss or Owens. He's not even close to being in the same league as those guys. Its not his fault he has simply been coached very badly at the NFL level. DROB has suffered as much as anything from the schemes employed and coaches who probably have taught him questionable techniques.

Yes, Carr is in the same boat, but I want to stay away from creating a contraversy concerning QB's and such. I want to continue to point out that the coaching is what we need to focus on if the Texans are going to become a contender. Again, the game is won and lost in the trenches, but not without superior coaching with the advent of the CAP spending limits. I continue to say there is no CAP limit on the coaching talent. I suspect, for example, if you went to Homgren and offered him the right package you could probably get him or any other coach for that matter. PBUC is another person on the opposite side of the spectrum who probably was very much hurt by the lack of competent coaching over his whole NFL career. Look at the O and D-lines. They are very much a function of incompetent coaching. Again, forget about the draft and look at who and what we do with the coaching staff and related staff and you will have an idea of where the Texans will be going.

Again it will be the COACHES who matter in this next go around. By the way that was true of the 1st round too. Hire great coaches and great things will happen. Hire mediocre to bad coaches and you will get mediocre to bad results. I don't care who the players are. It really is that simple.

LCOOL
01-24-2006, 04:40 AM
I for one am not all that thrilled with the Kubiack hire. I would assume that the retained and named assistants have had the blessing of Kubiack, but there has been no statement saying such. Again with the playoffs going on Kubiack was supposidly off limits.

The 1st Texans coaching staff including head coach and assistants have left the Texans in a state of shambles. As I have stated in other posts to me the most important decisions to be made by Bob McNair are with respect to his coaching staff and not the draft. The draft should take care of itself if the right staff is hired. This ball club badly needs a staff that can develop the talent we already have as well as any new FA's and draftees we attain. We need a staff of coaches' coaches to right this sinking ship. We have a number of players who have talent, but who have been coached into mediocrity at best.

I will take two players in particular, DROB and AJ, and say they are nowhere near where they should be at this point in their careers. DROB is probably further along than AJ, but last year was a total waste. Both digressed from their previous season or seasons. I honestly do not believe that AJ has any idea of what he really should be doing and how he should really dominate other teams. His receiver skills are quite frankly below average as far as I am concerned and there is no way at the present time he compares to Moss or Owens. He's not even close to being in the same league as those guys. Its not his fault he has simply been coached very badly at the NFL level. DROB has suffered as much as anything from the schemes employed and coaches who probably have taught him questionable techniques.

Yes, Carr is in the same boat, but I want to stay away from creating a contraversy concerning QB's and such. I want to continue to point out that the coaching is what we need to focus on if the Texans are going to become a contender. Again, the game is won and lost in the trenches, but not without superior coaching with the advent of the CAP spending limits. I continue to say there is no CAP limit on the coaching talent. I suspect, for example, if you went to Homgren and offered him the right package you could probably get him or any other coach for that matter. PBUC is another person on the opposite side of the spectrum who probably was very much hurt by the lack of competent coaching over his whole NFL career. Look at the O and D-lines. They are very much a function of incompetent coaching. Again, forget about the draft and look at who and what we do with the coaching staff and related staff and you will have an idea of where the Texans will be going.

Again it will be the COACHES who matter in this next go around. By the way that was true of the 1st round too. Hire great coaches and great things will happen. Hire mediocre to bad coaches and you will get mediocre to bad results. I don't care who the players are. It really is that simple.
I just think we ought to give the Texans a chance, if the next ccouple of seasons dont improved then a lot of people in this organization will need to go. Give Mcnair credit at least he gives you a second chance, because Jerry Jones wouldn't, i.e. fired Jimmy Johnson after winning the superbowl!

infantrycak
01-24-2006, 06:38 AM
. As I have stated in other posts to me...

Is it possible for you to go even a single post without referencing your other posts?

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2006, 08:09 AM
I for one am not all that thrilled with the Kubiack hire. I would assume that the retained and named assistants have had the blessing of Kubiack, but there has been no statement saying such. Again with the playoffs going on Kubiack was supposidly off limits.

The 1st Texans coaching staff including head coach and assistants have left the Texans in a state of shambles. As I have stated in other posts to me the most important decisions to be made by Bob McNair are with respect to his coaching staff and not the draft. The draft should take care of itself if the right staff is hired. This ball club badly needs a staff that can develop the talent we already have as well as any new FA's and draftees we attain. We need a staff of coaches' coaches to right this sinking ship. We have a number of players who have talent, but who have been coached into mediocrity at best.

I will take two players in particular, DROB and AJ, and say they are nowhere near where they should be at this point in their careers. DROB is probably further along than AJ, but last year was a total waste. Both digressed from their previous season or seasons. I honestly do not believe that AJ has any idea of what he really should be doing and how he should really dominate other teams. His receiver skills are quite frankly below average as far as I am concerned and there is no way at the present time he compares to Moss or Owens. He's not even close to being in the same league as those guys. Its not his fault he has simply been coached very badly at the NFL level. DROB has suffered as much as anything from the schemes employed and coaches who probably have taught him questionable techniques.

Yes, Carr is in the same boat, but I want to stay away from creating a contraversy concerning QB's and such. I want to continue to point out that the coaching is what we need to focus on if the Texans are going to become a contender. Again, the game is won and lost in the trenches, but not without superior coaching with the advent of the CAP spending limits. I continue to say there is no CAP limit on the coaching talent. I suspect, for example, if you went to Homgren and offered him the right package you could probably get him or any other coach for that matter. PBUC is another person on the opposite side of the spectrum who probably was very much hurt by the lack of competent coaching over his whole NFL career. Look at the O and D-lines. They are very much a function of incompetent coaching. Again, forget about the draft and look at who and what we do with the coaching staff and related staff and you will have an idea of where the Texans will be going.

Again it will be the COACHES who matter in this next go around. By the way that was true of the 1st round too. Hire great coaches and great things will happen. Hire mediocre to bad coaches and you will get mediocre to bad results. I don't care who the players are. It really is that simple.

Your heading in the above treatise was that McNair has problems in managing. Can you give us some details on what those problems are and what lines of business they effect.

A Texan
01-24-2006, 09:13 AM
Bob McNair is a great gentleman and a great owner. I can't believe anybody would complain about Bob when you can remember Bud. Call me naive if you want but I truly believe Bob did such a marvelous job of pursuing an NFL franchise against long odds because he wanted the people of Houston and the area to have a team to cheer. Apollos? Please no! I'm a Texan.

Wharton
01-24-2006, 09:19 AM
It was like trying to hold back the tide. I feel like the little boy with his finger in the damn with everything crashing around me. The only piece of the damn left is the impression of my body with my finger stickin out.

:crying:

TexasDiehard
01-24-2006, 11:43 AM
My mistake for assuming that most of the posters on this board would have emotional maturity above an adolescent. You goofball one line haters do not do yourself or the board any credit by your mindless, infantile bashing of other people's perspectives. I don't expect you clowns to agree with me but if you feel the need to respond, try doing it with a mature, defensible perspective rather than venomous, unsupportable drivel.

I like Bob McNair and I appreciate everything he has done for Houston. He was a genius in bring the NFL back to town, but that only makes it more dumbfounding that almost every major decision since that time has been an avoidable mistake. He has proven to be a very poor evaluator of football talent at all levels and he tends to pick people he respects personally without full consideration of their obvious professional deficiencies.


- I would love nothing more than to see VY in a Texans uniform. But you can't draft him just b/c he's a hometown guy and will sell tickets. Bottom-line, winning sells tickets and the Texans need to do whatever they think will make them win the quickest.

You don't draft Vince because he is a hometown guy and can sell tickets and you don't make decisions based on who you think can make you win the quickest. If you are a CEO, you look at the big picture and pick the guy who most likely can help you succeed at the highest level in the long term. Vince is the best talent available and the only player on the board with the demonstrated potential to lift an entire football enterprise to the highest level through his own personal skills.

This is where you fall out of orbit and careen off into space. (A) Kubiak has not been passed over so much as he has received offers and many interviews, but has for the most part turned down the positions, opting to stay in Denver. (B) The UT-Aggs argument is positively stupid. Every coach has an alma mater, and no hiring decision is made on the basis of where he did or did not come from. It is patently stupid to assume that Kubiak will pass over Vince Young or anyone else because of where he played: everyone in the NFL played somewhere once, and there is absolutely no record of discontent or personnel decisions being made on that basis.

(A) Please list the head coaching jobs Kubiak has turned down to stay as offensive coordinator at Denver. He has been passed over for every head job because everyone else believed he was riding Shanahan's and Elway's coattails. (B) I would agree with the above statement if Kubiak was anything but an Aggie, but 50 years of observing Aggies leads me to the conclusion that they are emotionally wired different than everyone else and systemically incapable of setting aside their emotions regarding UT. If you will remember, Vince Young dissed the Aggie traditions before this years game and if you believe that Aggies like Kubiak don't know that, and that it won't affect his thinking about Vince Young, then you don't know Aggies. Once an Aggie, always an Aggie. Yes it is stupid, but there is no way Kubiak picks Vince if it is his decision alone.

Kubiak is about as proven as they get, and it amazes me that you would write him off because he worked with Elway, assuming that Elway was the sole reason for Denver's success. Kubiak's offenses have been repeatedly successful and the Broncos were, last I checked 13-3 this year in a very tough division/conference.

I have not written off Kubiak, but he has absolutely no demonstrated ability to successfully evaluate NFL talent and there is no way I would leave the Vince and other major personnel decisions up to Kubiak. McNair needs a proven NFL talent evaluator and he doesn't have one. Reeves got booted out of Atlanta more for his GM decisions than his coaching.

What is impressive is that you spent a good half of this extremely long post attempting to make critical analysis of the Texans franchise, and then the next half more or less blindly praising - yet again, have never heard this before - Vince Young. No matter how many times you say it, it don't make it so.

Is there any rational evidence to support what you are saying? If you have watched Vince Young and reach a different conclusion I would argue that you are the one who's blind. What is the better alternative that gives the Texans the best hope of achieving major success in the short and long term than taking Vince Young?

With such jumps in logic, and blatant inability to support one argument while refraining from diminishing another, I just can't take this thread too seriously.

Is the concept of hypocrisy part of your consciousness? I supported everything I said and you responded with derogatory comments that were not supported by any logical argument other than hubris. Try making a credible argument if you can.

CC has compiled one of the worst drafting and free agent acquisition track records in the history of the NFL since joining the Texans

Wow. CC hasn't had great drafts, but that's a MAJOR stretch. Try again.

It is hardly a major stretch when Charlie has only Johnson, Robinson and possibly Davis and Pitts as clear successes after 4 drafts and over 30 picks and numerous free agents acquisitions.

Speak for yourself. Not taking Vince won't do a thing to me. It will to the UT fans that want Vince. I am a Texans fan, and yes, I think Young is the right choice, but you fail to point out any of the pitfalls, or any of his weaknesses. Like any prospect, he is not a no risk pick, and you lost your chance at any real objective analyis and showed your true colors at what I will call the "Vince is God. All kneel before thee" section. I am a huge Vince fan, but this is getting really annoying.

No, what is really annoying is sanctimonious people like you who feel they have to degrade the obvious for no reason at all. Vince is not god. He is a clearly special talent and all the signs so far point to the Texans screwing up the pick. That is hardly predicting that they will and I certainly hope that they don't but there is nothing wrong with observing the direction things are pointing and voicing concern with that direction in light of the endless stream of screw ups so far. You seem like a bright guy, but you might try reading from the big picture and a fact and logic check on your next post before taking unwarranted shots. Substantive, well reasoned responses are so much more interesting than unsupported blather.

But to say that he is the root of all problems, when the state of the business is extremely healthy is asinine.

Extremely healthy? Did you see the Texans play this season? Did you see all the empty seats? How about the basement level TV ratings? Did you not notice that a huge portion of the fan base beyond the games lost interest in the Texans after this dismal performance? Maybe all you self righteous Texan fans can band together and accept whatever McNair does and enjoy the mediocrity, but some of us would like him to sieize the opportunity to win back the hearts and minds of all the potential fans. Almost no one will stop following the Texans if they take Vince, but the Texans will lose a huge group of potential fans if they do not take Vince and he later achieves his potential with Bud Adams or elsewhere. I'm not convinced McNair can look beyond his affection for David Carr and the cast of so called experts around him to for once make the right big picture decision. I hope I am wrong.

you should go to bed every night thanking your lucky stars that we have an owner as good as him, that understands that his team will do better if he leaves the running of the team to the professionals

Yeah, that strategy has worked out really well so far. It only works if you have the vision and business acumen to pick the right professionals in the first place and there is no evidence that McNair has mastered that process.

Wharton, Grid, Asylum and Sportsfan. It's so nice to discover intellectuals on the Texan's board!!!

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 11:55 AM
My mistake for assuming that most of the posters on this board would have emotional maturity above an adolescent. You goofball one line haters do not do yourself or the board any credit by your mindless, infantile bashing of other people's perspectives. I don't expect you clowns to agree with me but if you feel the need to respond, try doing it with a mature, defensible perspective rather than venomous, unsupportable drivel.

Nice way to make friends. :listening

I won't respond to the rest of your self-important dissertation, because you do not deserve the respect of a reply. You won't be around here long anyway with that attitude. :ok:

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2006, 12:22 PM
But to say that he is the root of all problems, when the state of the business is extremely healthy is asinine.

Extremely healthy? Did you see the Texans play this season? Did you see all the empty seats? How about the basement level TV ratings? Did you not notice that a huge portion of the fan base beyond the games lost interest in the Texans after this dismal performance? Maybe all you self righteous Texan fans can band together and accept whatever McNair does and enjoy the mediocrity, but some of us would like him to sieize the opportunity to win back the hearts and minds of all the potential fans. Almost no one will stop following the Texans if they take Vince, but the Texans will lose a huge group of potential fans if they do not take Vince and he later achieves his potential with Bud Adams or elsewhere. I'm not convinced McNair can look beyond his affection for David Carr and the cast of so called experts around him to for once make the right big picture decision. I hope I am wrong.

Us "intellectuals" do see a difference between the health of the business and the health of the win column and are cautionary when posters start getting the two confused as they usually try to position a Vince Young debate wrapped in a mistitled thread.

Your vision was spot on as there were many empty seats as the season progressed. However, when one cares to peel back the onion 50k of those seats are bought and paid for. Moreover the valuation of the franchise has grown 30% from 2003 to 2005, a pretty good indicator that the business is pretty healthy.
Here is a link for some rainy day reading:
http://www.forbes.com/2005/09/01/sports-football-gambling-cz_05nfland.html

Opinions on this board are far reaching and no one is batting a 1.000. Let's show a little more respect to the owner as we enter year 5. Healthy businesses are usually more stable and are able to rebound much quicker into the black on a line of business such as the win column.

Lucky
01-24-2006, 12:49 PM
...Please list the head coaching jobs Kubiak has turned down to stay as offensive coordinator at Denver.
The University of Colorado's head coaching position in 1999. Kubiak has also declined some interviews for HC gigs over the years.

...50 years of observing Aggies leads me to the conclusion that they are emotionally wired different than everyone else and systemically incapable of setting aside their emotions regarding UT. If you will remember, Vince Young dissed the Aggie traditions before this years game and if you believe that Aggies like Kubiak don't know that, and that it won't affect his thinking about Vince Young, then you don't know Aggies. Once an Aggie, always an Aggie. Yes it is stupid...
Yes it is. At least we have something to agree upon. And some posters can make a point from a single sentence that others can't in a page.

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 12:54 PM
I would agree with the above statement if Kubiak was anything but an Aggie, but 50 years of observing Aggies leads me to the conclusion that they are emotionally wired different than everyone else and systemically incapable of setting aside their emotions regarding UT. If you will remember, Vince Young dissed the Aggie traditions before this years game and if you believe that Aggies like Kubiak don't know that, and that it won't affect his thinking about Vince Young, then you don't know Aggies. Once an Aggie, always an Aggie. Yes it is stupid, but there is no way Kubiak picks Vince if it is his decision alone.

FYI, there are many Ags very much in favor of drafting Vince. An Aggie is always willing to hire a Longhorn to work for him, so why would this be a problem? ;)

Seriously, I am an Ag, and I have no issue with Vince becoming a Texan. Do I think it is right for the franchise? Not necessarily, but I will definitely support Vince IF he becomes a Texan. I hope VY succeeds in the NFL and plays well except for the weeks he plays against us.

Glacier
01-24-2006, 12:56 PM
FYI, there are many Ags very much in favor of drafting Vince. An Aggie is always willing to hire a Longhorn to work for him, so why would this be a problem? ;)

Seriously, I am an Ag, and I have no issue with Vince becoming a Texan. Do I think it is right for the franchise? Not necessarily, but I will definitely support Vince IF he becomes a Texan. I hope VY succeeds in the NFL and plays well except for the weeks he plays against us.


speaking of the ags, good lord, the future is bright with Stephen McGee at QB. He showed people something in that game vs. Texas. he will be force to be reckoned with.

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2006, 01:00 PM
FYI, there are many Ags very much in favor of drafting Vince. An Aggie is always willing to hire a Longhorn to work for him, so why would this be a problem? ;)

Seriously, I am an Ag, and I have no issue with Vince becoming a Texan. Do I think it is right for the franchise? Not necessarily, but I will definitely support Vince IF he becomes a Texan. I hope VY succeeds in the NFL and plays well except for the weeks he plays against us.

Amen to that and I am in the trade down club and married to an Aggie.

Jwwillis
01-24-2006, 01:40 PM
Is this a "Fire Bob McNair" thread? Is that even possible?

Rofl...

I can already see it.

Kubiac decides to go with Bush as the #1 pick and the

FIRE KUBIAC threads will start.

I got 5 bucks says someone in this forum calls for Kubiacs job before the new season even begins.

edo783
01-24-2006, 02:09 PM
I got 5 bucks says someone in this forum calls for Kubiacs job before the new season even begins.


Geeezzz, talk about a lead pipe cinch bet with this group.

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 02:18 PM
Rofl...

I can already see it.

Kubiac decides to go with Bush as the #1 pick and the

FIRE KUBIAC threads will start.

I got 5 bucks says someone in this forum calls for Kubiacs job before the new season even begins.

No doubt. 10 bucks says it's just another troll thread...like this one! :stirpot:

Ibar_Harry
01-24-2006, 03:44 PM
Again, I'm very concerned about the direction McNair is taking us with this coaching staff. Kubiack is certainly not a tried and tested head coach. Now, it appears he is taking on a young man who has no experience as a receiver's coach. This has all of the ear marks of the previous coaching staff. Again, we need experienced and talented coaching to manage this team. Could we be in a position that the receivers know more than their coach? Again, so far the moves look so much like the way the previous staff was picked. I really hope that is not the case.

The Texans will be what the coaching is. Great coaches will lead to a great team. Mediorce to bad coaches will lead to a mediocre to a bad team. We have 4 picks out of the 1st 66 in the draft. I would say Casserly has done a good job of making it possible for us to strengthen our player pool through the draft, but will we be able to do anything with the picks? In the NFL what matters is COACHING, COACHING and COACHING. Outstanding coaches will give you outstanding results over the long haul. Its really as simple as that.

Kaiser Toro
01-24-2006, 03:50 PM
Now, it appears he is taking on a young man who has no experience as a receiver's coach. This has all of the ear marks of the previous coaching staff. Again, we need experienced and talented coaching to manage this team.

I agree with that, but wanted to reserve my comments until I see the whole staff.

Double Barrel
01-24-2006, 04:04 PM
Again, I'm very concerned about the direction McNair is taking us with this coaching staff. Kubiack is certainly not a tried and tested head coach. Now, it appears he is taking on a young man who has no experience as a receiver's coach. This has all of the ear marks of the previous coaching staff. Again, we need experienced and talented coaching to manage this team.

There is no doubt that Kubiak does not have HC experience. But the fact remains that every HC was a coordinator at one time. From the great Tom Landry to Bill Walsh to Vince Lombardi to Bill Belichick, etc., they were all assistants before head coaches. Nobody comes out of the womb as a head coach.

What Kubiak has going for him is championship experience, and this cannot be underestimated. Three rings as a coach speaks volumes, and this simple fact makes him head and shoulders beyond the previous coaching staff. Add in the fact that he played on championship caliber teams as a backup QB to one of football's great QBs, and you simply cannot compare Capers & Co. to the qualities that Kubiak brings to the table.

Simply put, Kubiak has experience on winning teams that have won NFL championships. He understands what it takes to train, prepare, and establish a winning attitude in a franchise. Capers had none of that in his background (other than an NFC championship game built on free agents).

Doubt Kubiak all you want, but hating a man based on false pretense is not a good policy. Give him a chance, then form an opinion. To tar and feather him at this point is an exorcise in futility based upon speculation and opinion.

You gotta' have faith, Ibar! :redtowel:

Bobo
01-24-2006, 04:28 PM
Where's our "Draft VY or we'll forever rue the day we didn't." forcefield.

Probably in the same closet we stored the "Bench Warren Moon and start Bucky Richardson" protection.

swtbound07
01-24-2006, 04:32 PM
Again, I'm very concerned about the direction McNair is taking us with this coaching staff. Kubiack is certainly not a tried and tested head coach. Now, it appears he is taking on a young man who has no experience as a receiver's coach. This has all of the ear marks of the previous coaching staff. Again, we need experienced and talented coaching to manage this team. Could we be in a position that the receivers know more than their coach? Again, so far the moves look so much like the way the previous staff was picked. I really hope that is not the case.

The Texans will be what the coaching is. Great coaches will lead to a great team. Mediorce to bad coaches will lead to a mediocre to a bad team. We have 4 picks out of the 1st 66 in the draft. I would say Casserly has done a good job of making it possible for us to strengthen our player pool through the draft, but will we be able to do anything with the picks? In the NFL what matters is COACHING, COACHING and COACHING. Outstanding coaches will give you outstanding results over the long haul. Its really as simple as that.

im more inclined to listen to ibar now than i used to be....i think we all learned a lesson about battle red glasses and such....maybe the guy who is preaching gloom and doom is actually right.

Errant Hothy
01-24-2006, 04:43 PM
Again, I'm very concerned about the direction McNair is taking us with this coaching staff. Kubiack is certainly not a tried and tested head coach. Now, it appears he is taking on a young man who has no experience as a receiver's coach. This has all of the ear marks of the previous coaching staff. Again, we need experienced and talented coaching to manage this team. Could we be in a position that the receivers know more than their coach? Again, so far the moves look so much like the way the previous staff was picked. I really hope that is not the case.

The Texans will be what the coaching is. Great coaches will lead to a great team. Mediorce to bad coaches will lead to a mediocre to a bad team. We have 4 picks out of the 1st 66 in the draft. I would say Casserly has done a good job of making it possible for us to strengthen our player pool through the draft, but will we be able to do anything with the picks? In the NFL what matters is COACHING, COACHING and COACHING. Outstanding coaches will give you outstanding results over the long haul. Its really as simple as that.

So, oh great and wise Harry one; who should the Texans have hired?

Because the rest of the NFL disagress with you. Of the 10 jobs that became available, but I'm only going to count 9 (KC traaded for a coach), only one team decieded to hire a coach with NFL head coaching expierence. So apperantly only a samll few, and I don't think anybody here works for an NFL FO, think that a coach has to have previous expierence as a HC to be a good hire. Hell, Marinelli was never even a coordinator.

As for the bet on when teh first "Fire Kubiak" thread...I'm kinda surprised there hasn't been one yet.

Texans_Chick
01-24-2006, 04:54 PM
For all that is good in the world, please oh please lock this thread.

I've tried not to responding to it, hoping it goes away, but it keeps bumping up top. With stuff non-related to the initial post.

The title of this thread causes me actual physical pain--the english language does not contain the words I would need to express how misguided the thread title is, so I will make up a new word--it is just abymasilly or grotesatrolled or pukariffic or some combinations of that sort of stuff--crud, I just give up.

Make it go away. Pretty please. :texflag:

infantrycak
01-24-2006, 04:59 PM
Wish granted--this thread has outlived any utility it ever had.