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Nighthawk
01-22-2006, 09:00 PM
This from the ESPN announcement tonight.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2302213

"A Broncos source told ESPN's Chris Mortensen last week that the Texans told USC that Reggie Bush would be selected with the No. 1 pick, despite a rise in public sentiment after the Rose Bowl that Houston select Texas quarterback Vince Young.

That assurance was given because it was in line with Kubiak's philosophy.

A Broncos source told Mortensen that Kubiak believes current Houston quarterback David Carr can flourish with a new offense headlined by Bush and wide receiver Andre Johnson."

If you were hoping that this franchise might turn around, recognize its weaknesses, and act accordingly, this has to give you pause.

Marcus
01-22-2006, 09:04 PM
So now all you Kubiak lovers, are all of a sudden Kubiak haters, because he chose Carr over VY?

That has got to be really shallow. :loser :thumbdown

Wolf
01-22-2006, 09:08 PM
looking at the ratings on another thread and looking at our average of running outside.. we just don't do it.. and the lack of speed (hello Hollings) that never developed on the team hurts us.

I would like to see some speed at RB .. I'd like to see a toss sweep once in a while with AJ blocking out front.

LORK 88
01-22-2006, 09:25 PM
Personally, until Kubiak proves that he's not worth the HC job he's about to get, I have full faith in him. Im going to try to keep this from turning into another Bush-Vince-Trade Down debate as best I can, but if we want a player just to run toss sweeps with, why waste the 1st overall on someone? Why not draft a speed back in the middle of the draft? Personally, I see too many other needs and too great a cost to get rid of our 1st with a want-type player who would split time.

bakerooskie
01-22-2006, 09:38 PM
Kubiak has got my support... I think he can turn this offense around. I think David has got the skills to flourish, he just needs a new type of offense to work with, and a good O-Line to protect him...

LoneStarState
01-22-2006, 09:41 PM
Kubiak is our new coach! I support him 100%! :redtowel:

Runner
01-22-2006, 09:44 PM
So now all you Kubiak lovers, are all of a sudden Kubiak haters, because he chose Carr over VY?

That has got to be really shallow. :loser :thumbdown

Are you asking us to assume that Kubiak has more football knowledge in general and more insight into the Texans specifically than the fan who sat in section blah-blah-blah all season?

:rolleyes:

Boxscore
01-22-2006, 09:48 PM
Be nice to use our number one to assure that we get the offensive lineman from Va. and Ohio State's AJ Hawk. How could that be made possible?

Grid
01-22-2006, 09:55 PM
who is the Olineman from VA? Dbrick?


hmm.. its possible I would think.. it would involve trading down to #4.. then drafting dbrick and using the rest of our draft to trade back up to the #5-7 spot.

Not worth it IMO. Dbrick isnt head and shoulders better than the other OTs coming out that are graded as 1st round talent.. and may not fit our scheme anyway.

trade down to #4.. get Mario Williams.. get an extra 2nd and 3rd rounder out of the deal.. then use your 3 thirds to trade back into the 2nd and grab three of the 1st round quality players that slipped out of the 1st.

Thats what id like to see :).. 4 1st round prospects sounds better than Bush or Young to me.

texman8
01-22-2006, 09:57 PM
You'll probably get one of them; not both. Personally, if we trade down; I'll prefer Mario Williams.

Marcus
01-22-2006, 10:00 PM
Be nice to use our number one to assure that we get the offensive lineman from Va. and Ohio State's AJ Hawk. How could that be made possible?

Getting D'Brick and A.J. Hawk for the number one pick would have me stoked. But the VY crowd wouldn't have anything to do with it.

michaelm
01-22-2006, 10:07 PM
Im going to try to keep this from turning into another Bush-Vince-Trade Down debate as best I can, but if we want a player just to run toss sweeps with, why waste the 1st overall on someone? Why not draft a speed back in the middle of the draft? Personally, I see too many other needs and too great a cost to get rid of our 1st with a want-type player who would split time.



Seriously... that's the best you can do to keep this from becoming a Bush-Vince-Trade Down debate?
LOL

HJam72
01-22-2006, 10:13 PM
Getting D'Brick and A.J. Hawk for the number one pick would have me stoked. But the VY crowd wouldn't have anything to do with it.

I think VY's chances of playing in Houston just croked. Not trying to debate whether he is the best choice or not, but it looks like it's all about Bush or Trade Down at this point. Of course, we should probably be way more concerned with who our coordinators will be.

thunderkyss
01-22-2006, 10:18 PM
So now all you Kubiak lovers, are all of a sudden Kubiak haters, because he chose Carr over VY?

That has got to be really shallow. :loser :thumbdown

Kubiak has not chosen Carr over Vick.

They were referencing what Kubiak had to say in regards to Carr, not a Carr vs Vince question, not a will you draft bush question, and that statement was made before Vince declared for the Draft. No one, that I know of yet has asked Kubiak about Vince yet.

The Mortenson reference was to McNair saying that Reggie will be picked. Saying that it is inline with Kubiaks philosophy(of which, I have not heard).

:homer:

thunderkyss
01-22-2006, 10:21 PM
I think VY's chances of playing in Houston just croked. Not trying to debate whether he is the best choice or not, but it looks like it's all about Bush or Trade Down at this point. Of course, we should probably be way more concerned with who our coordinators will be.


Sounds like McNair is still trying to cash in on the Bush Hype.... he wants people to believe we are taking regie to make the pick more valuable. he'll be given a Saints/Vikings like deal and won't be able to turn it down, and no one not even the Houstonian VY crowd will be able to blame him.

Napa Auto Parts
01-22-2006, 10:27 PM
Coming from Kubiak it is actually surprising that he would be willing to take bush number one such a small back kind of like Tatum Bell Just way overhyped. if the case is taking a RB i would prefer to have De-angelo Williams At least someone who is going to be on the field for more than 15 plays.

but my opinion regarding this draft is V.Y should be our pick if not trade down and grab some more picks i just dont see us having Bush for a long perion of time may be 2 years until some DT tackles him and breaks him and half.

ensign_lee
01-22-2006, 10:28 PM
Sounds like McNair is still trying to cash in on the Bush Hype.... he wants people to believe we are taking regie to make the pick more valuable. he'll be given a Saints/Vikings like deal and won't be able to turn it down, and no one not even the Houstonian VY crowd will be able to blame him.

That would be NICE!

GP
01-22-2006, 10:32 PM
Kubiak is familiar with multiple backs who can run the ball and give defenses a tough time all game long due to fresh legs and change-of-pace.

Other than the scenario of trading down to be able to acquire a stud O lineman and to therefore ALSO be able to get back up in the draft line to snag another top-tier player....the Reggie Bush pick will be made.

Kubiak will try and salvage Carr's career. Carr is leaps and bounds more talented than Plummer, just gotta' get the guy some better coaching (and not just for Carr...for the WHOLE TEAM, too, which will happen...). I'd take Carr on his worst day over Plummer on his best day.

Amazing. We're not even one full day into the Kubiak era and he's already getting blasted by a fan for "wanting Carr."

bakerooskie
01-22-2006, 10:35 PM
Reggie Bush is extremely talented, he is undersized but makes up for that with tremendous speed and running power... He is a work horse, he can pound his way through the inside, or bounce to the outside, and make plays happen out of nothing... He can make a tackler miss, he can go out every game and put up HUGE numbers, and he will give you more than just 15 plays, he is in excellent shape... Now, crunch the numbers and tell me why he should not be chosen as the number one draft pick this year...

GP
01-22-2006, 10:35 PM
And what if Kubiak grabbed LenDale White at No. 1?

Wouldn't THAT make a splash in the sportsworld?

TEXANRED
01-22-2006, 10:36 PM
Now that we have Kubiak is there any news on Gray being our DC?

Samer
01-22-2006, 10:37 PM
Kubiak will definately make things happen for us. He may even be able to take our OL and improve it a little bit with the little talent we have

bakerooskie
01-22-2006, 10:39 PM
Kubiak will definately make things happen for us. He may even be able to take our OL and improve it a little bit with the little talent we have

I love it, that is a great way to look at this whole deal...

infantrycak
01-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Kubiak will definately make things happen for us. He may even be able to take our OL and improve it a little bit with the little talent we have

His willingness to use cut blocks to seal the cut back lane alone could benefit the Texans greatly. Pendry was quoted as saying he didn't think cut blocks were necessary to a successful zone blocking scheme and IMO that was one glaring absence in the Texans' running game.

edo783
01-22-2006, 10:43 PM
Kubiak has not chosen Carr over Vick.

They were referencing what Kubiak had to say in regards to Carr, not a Carr vs Vince question,:homer:

Keep clicking those ruby slippers Dorothy.:ok:

Hookem Horns
01-22-2006, 10:48 PM
Carr is leaps and bounds more talented than Plummer, just gotta' get the guy some better coaching (and not just for Carr...for the WHOLE TEAM, too, which will happen...). I'd take Carr on his worst day over Plummer on his best day.

Amazing. We're not even one full day into the Kubiak era and he's already getting blasted by a fan for "wanting Carr."

What has Carr done in 4 years to make you come to this conclusion? I'll be the first to admit that I hope you are right but I have seen nothing out of Carr to make me think he is better than Plummer or any other winning QB out there.

For the record that ESPN report is the SAME one that came out last week when McNair denied it and said they haven't begun scouting all the players available. Also, it doesn't say one thing about what Kubiak thinks or has decided.

HOOK'EM
01-22-2006, 10:53 PM
Kubiak + Bush = Playoffs 06'!:redtowel:

TEXANRED
01-22-2006, 10:58 PM
Kubiak + Bush = Playoffs 06'!:redtowel:
Heck ya:yahoo:

Thats the attitude this team needs:texflag:

bakerooskie
01-22-2006, 11:02 PM
Heck ya:yahoo:

KUBIAC + BUSH = PLAYOFFS 06'

Thats the attitude this team needs:texflag:

I totally agree...

GP
01-22-2006, 11:04 PM
Mutliple Hook 'Ems is driving me bonkers. Can you guys go to a legal mediation session and help us all out?

You said you "hoped" I am right. You've just about lost all faith in this team, and I wish you'd get positive again.

It's like you're so caught up in the past that you're just absolutely sure that it will repeat itself. I'm telling ya' like I;ve said all season long: This whole TEAM imploded after the Cleveland game of 2004. No single player could un-do what Capers and his staff worked so hard at accomplishing: Proving to the world that "their" keep-it-close-and-win-it-in-the-end philosophy is a winner in today's NFL.

Seattle.

Pittsburgh.

Heck, even the Patriots for the past few years.

Those teams get you down and KEEP you down. Vanderjagt is right: Dungy and Peyton don't know how to go for the jugular. And it COST them two years in a row. Dude missed the kick. I know that. But he's right.

Carr. Mathis. DD. AJ. Bush? All of these guys are explosive players that Capers has or "would have" ruined with his personal pet philosophy that earns the coaches the credit if they win and gives the players a big "F" if they lose it in the end when it was so darned close!

Better coaching by a guy like Kubiak who understands offense and how the best offense is a BEST OFFENSE (and not a good defense, as the Bears showed last week).

Yes, Hook Em Horns. The answer is YES. Come back to us. Join us. A chorus of the positive and a beacon of light throughout the darkness of offseason desperation!!!!!!!!!

Tulip
01-22-2006, 11:11 PM
ESPN is still recycling that old Mort report as filler for the new article, eh?

I think Reggie is still going to be the pick, but Kubiak's evaluation has barely even begun. Nothing has been decided yet.

It'll be quite the coup if Kubiak brings Carr to that "other level" (whatever that is, lol), but if I were him, I wouldn't hitch my first head coaching wagon to such a question mark.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 11:18 PM
So now all you Kubiak lovers, are all of a sudden Kubiak haters, because he chose Carr over VY?

That has got to be really shallow. :loser :thumbdown

What do you expect man. C'mon. I saw this coming the second Denver lost. I just think it will be funny how many of them are going to come running back if we start to roll.

AustinJB
01-22-2006, 11:43 PM
I just think it will be funny how many of them are going to come running back if we start to roll.

And what will happen if Bush proves to be average, Carr still sucks, we're still losing, and VY is tearing it up in TN? Will you fess up and eat crow and wish we had made a different decision?

Don't get me wrong...I may not speak for all VY fans, but I hope this isn't the case. Whether we get VY or not, I'm not going to quit supporting the team, so I won't have to "come running back if we start to roll."

The fact that many of the anti-VY fans seem to not be grasping is, many don't think we will be a winning team w/ Carr.....EVER. And by "winning team" I mean SB contender. Carr is, and always will be (even if mildly successful in the future), an average QB. Why did we pick him #1? Management saw him as the best choice at the time. THAT #1 pick was the one that we screwed up. Just b/c we messed up then, why should we continue to try to make it work. Admit it may not have been the best decision and move on. 'Oh, but we'll be starting over if we take VY'. Agian, we were 2-14 w/ a QB that is not showing continual improvement. What does it take to start over?.....0-16??!! Carr may improve to average under Kubiak rather than horrible, but I have to believe that VY would excel to greatness under Kubiak. That is the difference. We messed up the #1 pick before, let's not do that this time.

And all of this Kubiak prefers Carr talk is non-sense at this point anyway. This is being pulled from a report that is 3 weeks old? LOL! Give me a break! Maybe once Kubes gives his press conference, spends time w/ Carr, spends time w/ VY during workouts, analyzes more of the draft, evaluates the rest of the team, etc......and he makes an official statement (not through "un-named" sources) regarding his preference of which way to go in the draft or who he prefers, THEN it will be newsworthy. Until then....not so much:brickwall

thunderkyss
01-22-2006, 11:47 PM
And what will happen if Bush proves to be average, Carr still sucks, we're still losing, and VY is tearing it up in TN? Will you fess up and eat crow and wish we had made a different decision?

Don't get me wrong...I may not speak for all VY fans, but I hope this isn't the case. Whether we get VY or not, I'm not going to quit supporting the team, so I won't have to "come running back if we start to roll."

The fact that many of the anti-VY fans seem to not be grasping is, many don't think we will be a winning team w/ Carr.....EVER. And by "winning team" I mean SB contender. Carr is, and always will be (even if mildly successful in the future), an average QB. Why did we pick him #1? Management saw him as the best choice at the time. THAT #1 pick was the one that we screwed up. Just b/c we messed up then, why should we continue to try to make it work. Admit it may not have been the best decision and move on. 'Oh, but we'll be starting over if we take VY'. Agian, we were 2-14 w/ a QB that is not showing continual improvement. What does it take to start over?.....0-16??!! Carr may improve to average under Kubiak rather than horrible, but I have to believe that VY would excel to greatness under Kubiak. That is the difference. We messed up the #1 pick before, let's not do that this time.

And all of this Kubiak prefers Carr talk is non-sense at this point anyway. This is being pulled from a report that is 3 weeks old? LOL! Give me a break! Maybe once Kubes gives his press conference, spends time w/ Carr, spends time w/ VY during workouts, analyzes more of the draft, evaluates the rest of the team, etc......and he makes an official statement (not through "un-named" sources) regarding his preference of which way to go in the draft or who he prefers, THEN it will be newsworthy. Until then....not so much:brickwall


AustinJB, you can speak for me anytime brother.....

but don't be so nice next time.

TEXANRED
01-22-2006, 11:56 PM
Why are we posting the same thing on 12 diffrent threads?

TexanBacker93
01-23-2006, 12:13 AM
There are so many possible scenarios to look at...

Bush could be drafted by the Texans and be great.
Bush could be drafted by the Texans and be average.
Bush could be drafted by the Texans and be a bust.

Young could be drafted by the Texans and be great.
Young could be drafted by the Texans and be average.
Young could be drafted by the Texans and be a bust.

The Texans could trade down and draft the next Mike Singletary in AJ Hawk.
The Texans could trade down and draft the next Orlando Pace in D'Brick.
The Texans could trade down and draft the next Andy Katzenmoyer in AJ Hawk.
The Texans could trade down and draft the next Mike Williams in D'Brick.



Now, of those scenarios you have to also include what happens to those other players. I'll root for the Texans no matter what happens. I really hope that fans will continue to root for the team even if they draft Bush and Young goes on to great things. I guarantee that if the Texans are winning true fans won't care if Young is in Tennessee and lighting it up. Personally, I think he's 2 years away from being a quality starting QB in the NFL. Heck, Vick's been in the NFL 5 years and I don't think he's a great QB yet. If the Texans draft Young, though. I'll support the decision even if Bush goes on to win a Super Bowl and run for 2000 yards in New York.

Right now, it's all hypothetical, speculative, what if mumbo jumbo. Everyone here has an opinion and they are all valid. There are no locks and no guarantees in the NFL. I think I recall that something like 18 of the 30 GMs in the 1998 draft would have taken Leaf. Now, I would imagine that all 30 would say they would have taken Manning if they were asked today. I hope Hawk, D'Brick, Young, and Bush all become great. Well, unless the Cowboys end up with one. I really don't like them.

SteelBlueToro
01-23-2006, 09:16 AM
What has Carr done in 4 years to make you come to this conclusion? I'll be the first to admit that I hope you are right but I have seen nothing out of Carr to make me think he is better than Plummer or any other winning QB out there.

It's hard to really know what a qb could do when he's either running for his life or on his back viewing the beautiful sky through the retractable roof at reliant stadium. Until he's given a decent line, a decent offensive scheme, and a real coaching - we will never know what Carr is capable of. I know there were some doubts about Big Ben - look where he's going.

Oh, and put VY in the game against the Steeler defense from the Colt game or yesterday's game and he's toast. :twocents:

Texans_Chick
01-23-2006, 10:26 AM
My personal preference is for the Texans to take VY. I do not think that will happen. In fact, I will probably faint away dead if it happens.

Why? This is how I see Bob McNair's world view (some of it I agree with and some of it I am not as generous about)....

Bob McNair is a very loyal guy. He is a big believer in building a team "the right way" and having patience in doing the building. This is the reason why he didn't can Capers earlier than he did. He has never waivered in his support for David Carr, and in all the times this season where the coaches coulda panicked or the owner coulda panicked and decided to bench DC, they didn't. Because they were going to do things "the right way." Through the season, McNair has always said supportive things about Carr (tho I betcha he might said a gosh durn under his breath when Carr did the ridiculous fumble at the beginning of the Pittsburgh game--my form of profanity was a bit stronger).

McNair knows that it has been unfair to Carr's development to ask him to start right away as a rookie, for a team with an abysmal offensive line and few offensive tools. He knows that it was a mistake to not get a better QB coach for him, thinking that Palmer could do everything. He knows that it is unfair to judge Carr based on last season because of the injuries to AJ and DD and Weigart, the rotating offensive line, canning the OC early in the season and the training wheels offense that they ran for the rest of the season.

I am guessing that the "fair" thing to do would be to get the face of the franchise more tools to play with--Bush being someone that could help and some Olinemen. In his press conference, he talked all offense, even though actually statistically speaking our defense was worse. Even if he thought that VY might be a better QB, his sense of fairness, and still being able to have 2 number one picks on the field and having Carr finally succeed as a Texan, is something that appeals to McNair.

CC has been completely talking about reupping Carr's bonus, and doing that straight up whether for two or three years is not probably meaning we are getting a new QB. They are just not admitting that because they want the flexibility to deal the first pick to someone that would want VY--otherwise, people will all go to New Orleans to make deals.

I could see Kubiak preferring Carr because developing a new QB is a time consuming process, especially one that might significantly affect the sorts of things you run.

So, they can talk all they want about how the evaluation process is completely open, and that they haven't decided, blahdittyblah, but just given all the public things Bob McNair has said and what he has done as an owner, it would just blow my doors off for him to pick VY and give up on Carr. I just don't see one tea leaf that says we are gonna pick VY. If McNair is unhappy with Carr, he sure is a good poker player because I've never seen him say one waivering thing about him.

My speculating and speaking outta my behind is now over. All that being said, I hope I am wrong wrong wrong.

:texflag:

jerek
01-23-2006, 10:39 AM
No one, that I know of yet has asked Kubiak about Vince yet.

Give it, oh, I don't know, until the end of the day.

Be nice to use our number one to assure that we get the offensive lineman from Va. and Ohio State's AJ Hawk. How could that be made possible?

A trade to acquire two firsts is possible, but I don't know if we'd get them that low, and the likelihood is, we would have to trade for this year's first and next year's first. D'Brick and Hawk will not make it to the second round, so we would have to be creative and lucky.

Coming from Kubiak it is actually surprising that he would be willing to take bush number one such a small back kind of like Tatum Bell Just way overhyped. if the case is taking a RB i would prefer to have De-angelo Williams At least someone who is going to be on the field for more than 15 plays.

but my opinion regarding this draft is V.Y should be our pick if not trade down and grab some more picks i just dont see us having Bush for a long perion of time may be 2 years until some DT tackles him and breaks him and half.

I can agree with the logic that says Bush might be a limited-carries back, possibly also prone to injury because of his smallish stature, but what's the lifespan on "mobile" (since we can't call him a scrambling QB, as this detracts from his brilliant pass skill) QBs in the league these days? Better hope your boy Vince develops a better pocket game if he comes here (and yes, I know, Vince has a pocket game, the best pocket game ever, I mean no one can touch him, ever has or ever will. Get off it already.)

Kubiak + Bush = Playoffs 06'!:redtowel:
I wish I could agree, but we will still face the Colts (hope for a split) and the Jags (tough any time we play them), and the rest of our schedule is no cakewalk either. Here's hoping you are right!

hof13026
01-23-2006, 10:48 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

texan279
01-23-2006, 10:50 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.


Ummmmm...I'd take a sack over an interception any day. Would you rather take a loss of yards or a turnover for your team?

chopich
01-23-2006, 10:55 AM
I think Kubiak will keep Carr because he likes his philosophy of playing. He would rather take a sack than throw an interception. This is talk of a young quarterback that is willing to do above and beyond to make the team win. I think David Carr is underated in the NFL only because he is always getting sacked and didnt always have the players needed to product some wins. Even though the Texans lost a lot of close games, hopefully they will relize that they need to trade the draft for a couple good players instead of one great player, or they need to draft a great defensive player that will step up and lead them to better production throughout the season.

profan
01-23-2006, 11:09 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.
Well, you should prepare to give up your seats. Based on your illogical reasoning you should give back your seats. Most qb's would prefer a sack over an int. I would prefer a sack over a int. This is the first time i ever have heard of someone prefering an int over a sack for the offense. Are you the one making all the noise when the offense has the ball? Are you the one starting the wave when the offense has the ball? Got to be.

Jack Bauer
01-23-2006, 11:12 AM
He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.


Do you even know what you typed???

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 11:12 AM
I think Kubiak will keep Carr because he likes his philosophy of playing.

So Kubiak is content with just "playing well" instead of winning? If so, he has his man.

chopich
01-23-2006, 11:13 AM
I said I like David Carr because he would take a sack instead of a interception. Ive been to one game only because I live in Wisconsin. I watched all the games, so dont say im not a fan man.

infantrycak
01-23-2006, 11:14 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

Wow, way to introduce yourself to the MB. Stellar football analysis there--a QB is selfish because he gets hit rather than force a turnover, i.e. the single greatest determinant of who wins an NFL game--brilliant.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 11:15 AM
I said I like David Carr because he would take a sack instead of a interception. Ive been to one game only because I live in Wisconsin. I watched all the games, so dont say im not a fan man.

Carr is also cool with losing just as long as he "plays well". :rolleyes:

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977&section=journal

JDizzle
01-23-2006, 11:19 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

How does taking a sack over throwing a pick make him selfish? An INT gives the other team the ball and a sack doesn't, I'm sure most QB's would make the same choice if presented the 2 options. Your team will suffer more if you turn the ball over (why am I having to explain this?).

Glacier
01-23-2006, 11:22 AM
And what if Kubiak grabbed LenDale White at No. 1?

Wouldn't THAT make a splash in the sportsworld?


That would be a retarded move. If LenDale White is the draft choice, then trade down to #6 or 7 where it makes more sense to take him.

Glacier
01-23-2006, 11:23 AM
How does taking a sack over throwing a pick make him selfish? An INT gives the other team the ball and a sack doesn't, I'm sure most QB's would make the same choice if presented the 2 options. Your team will suffer more if you turn the ball over (why am I having to explain this?).


both are the wrong choice. he is mobile. move outside the tackle box and throw the ball away.

HoustonFrog
01-23-2006, 11:24 AM
Here is a random question on this. I was harping on Carr last week because I had heard all the rumors that he didn't like staying after practice to work with coaches and teammates and he decided to do his film work at home. I wrote 610 and they confirmed it and Zerlein even alluded to it in his article about our three draft options. People have always blamed our coaches for not coaching him right, thus making the same mistakes 4 years in. Well what if he was just unwilling to put in the work and they DID try to help him?That would be something that Kubiak would have to look at. Is Carr willing to let go of his old habits and stay later, watch film with Kubes, etc?Carr said in the past that family was #1 on his time so that is why he went home. McClain even alluded to this in an article last week. Just something to think about.

Jack Bauer
01-23-2006, 11:24 AM
Carr is also cool with losing just as long as he "plays well". :rolleyes:

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977&section=journal

Talk about taking things out of context. Read the journal again (and put some thought behind the reading) and tell me you think what he said is NOT okay with you. He is not accepting playing well over winning. He is saying that if you don't win, as long as you gave everything you have, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Sounds well-grounded to me.

Another point. Nowhere in the journal did it say anything about "me". He talks about the team playing well. Also, would you rather he spend the time writing how his OL sucks and how pathetic the defense is? If he did that, we would all be screaming how bad a leader he is that he should know to keep that stuff "in-house".

LCOOL
01-23-2006, 11:37 AM
Talk about taking things out of context. Read the journal again (and put some thought behind the reading) and tell me you think what he said is NOT okay with you. He is not accepting playing well over winning. He is saying that if you don't win, as long as you gave everything you have, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Sounds well-grounded to me.

Another point. Nowhere in the journal did it say anything about "me". He talks about the team playing well. Also, would you rather he spend the time writing how his OL sucks and how pathetic the defense is? If he did that, we would all be screaming how bad a leader he is that he should know to keep that stuff "in-house".
Kubiak willl probably wont to trade down, because he already has DD in the backfield. He would probably go after a dl and ol.

gwallaia
01-23-2006, 11:46 AM
I continue to chuckle at the sensitive emotions from people on the Bush-Young debate. I am reminded of Republicans and Democrats bickering during Presidential campaigns.

If a Republican is elected to office, a great majority of Democrats hope the Repubilcan President will be terrible and run the country into the ground so they can enjoy the satisfaction of telling everyone, "I told you so."

Conversely and every bit as equally, if a Democrat becomes President, a great majority of Republicans hope and pray the Democratic President screws up and runs the country in the ground so they can boast and say, "I told you so."

Glacier
01-23-2006, 11:47 AM
Kubiak willl probably wont to trade down, because he already has DD in the backfield. He would probably go after a dl and ol.


he could shock everyone and move down to take the top TE in the draft. Denver has always had solid production at the TE position.

He could also try to find a good complimentary WR, though, this would likely happen in the 2nd or 3rd round.

He is an Offensive coach. I don't see the Texans investing too much in defense to start, though, I could be wrong.

Besides, this year will likely be a year of talent evaluation, much like Parcells when he came into Dallas. There weren't a lot of roster changes because he wanted to see what he had.

Mr. White
01-23-2006, 12:12 PM
This from the ESPN announcement tonight.
http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2302213

"A Broncos source told ESPN's Chris Mortensen last week that the Texans told USC that Reggie Bush would be selected with the No. 1 pick, despite a rise in public sentiment after the Rose Bowl that Houston select Texas quarterback Vince Young.

That assurance was given because it was in line with Kubiak's philosophy.

A Broncos source told Mortensen that Kubiak believes current Houston quarterback David Carr can flourish with a new offense headlined by Bush and wide receiver Andre Johnson."



The stoy's the same, but the sources keep changing. Everytime Bob McNair refutes their reports, another "source" with another team pops up and gives Mort the "big scoop."

Kubiak is coming off a pretty big upset. I think the playoffs are where his head has been. The source using Kubiak's "philosophy" sounds like more speculation disguised as news.

jerek
01-23-2006, 12:16 PM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

Let's see:

Sack, we keep the ball.

Interception, we give it to the other team.

Find me a head coach in this league that would rather have an INT than a sack.

Welcome to the board. Try to provide something that indicates you have a clue of what you are talking about next time.

JDizzle
01-23-2006, 12:36 PM
both are the wrong choice. he is mobile. move outside the tackle box and throw the ball away.

Well, of course, that's a no brainer but Carr's comment was a response to the 2 options of taking a sack or throwing a pick.

Talk about taking things out of context. Read the journal again (and put some thought behind the reading) and tell me you think what he said is NOT okay with you. He is not accepting playing well over winning. He is saying that if you don't win, as long as you gave everything you have, you have nothing to be ashamed of. Sounds well-grounded to me.

I was about to post the same thing, Bauer (24 rules, btw). Here's the journal entire journal entry :

We’re not giving up on it yet. Even though we’ve started 0-3, Joe Pendry was talking the other day saying he coached a team in Buffalo that started 0-3 and they ended up getting beat by the Dolphins in the playoffs. Our season is not over yet. I would tell anyone that is kind of doubting to hold on to that for a couple weeks. Make sure you see what we got with what we’re doing on offense and the confidence we’re playing with. We’ll see what we can do. I don’t think this week is necessarily a must win, but I think it is a must play well. I think our guys have to go out with confidence and play the way I know that we can play. Play the way that we did last week for the most part barring a few plays we just didn’t make the plays that I wish we could take back. Other than that, I think that if our guys go out and do what we’re supposed to do, the rest will take care of itself.

That was taken way out of context. I don't see anything in there where he says he's "okay with losing."

Grid
01-23-2006, 12:38 PM
sounds to me like he is saying "forget winning and losing, go out there and play well".. but maybe im looking at it through steel blue sunglasses. *shrug*

JDizzle
01-23-2006, 12:43 PM
sounds to me like he is saying "forget winning and losing, go out there and play well".. but maybe im looking at it through steel blue sunglasses. *shrug*

That's what I gathered from it.

I have my own reservations about Carr, but some of you are reaching up and beyond reasonnig and bringing down some things that are complete garbage in reference to David Carr's attitude and personality, 2 things most of you don't know anything about.

Hervoyel
01-23-2006, 01:15 PM
Simply put I just can't wait until something is definitive on this or any of the other possibilities. Just as an example lets say that this is true and that this was the last word on this subject. It's all hypothetical of course but for arguments sake lets go with it.

For a start you would have every single one of the Vince Young crybabies in here doing what you already see a handful of posters on this thread doing. They'll be crying and making threats. It's very important that I make you all understand that I'm not calling you a crybaby just because you think VY is the way to go. There are some good posters who want us to draft VY and I respect those guys. They're also not the ones you're going to catch in here crying about the Texans not seeing the light or talking about giving their seats (if they even have seats) away now that Vince isn't going to be here. Those posters will all descend on the board like they did right after the Rose Bowl only this time they'll be venting. I for one will be enjoying every single minute of it.

Then following a few days of general disorder on the board they'll start to go away. A week after the Texans go with Bush and pass on VY I'll be able to talk to all of the posters who actually have a clue in a relatively calm environment. Sure the odd malcontent will still pop up every once in a while but that's normal. The mob will be gone. That's all I care about now.

jerek
01-23-2006, 01:46 PM
Simply put I just can't wait until something is definitive on this or any of the other possibilities. Just as an example lets say that this is true and that this was the last word on this subject. It's all hypothetical of course but for arguments sake lets go with it.

For a start you would have every single one of the Vince Young crybabies in here doing what you already see a handful of posters on this thread doing. They'll be crying and making threats. It's very important that I make you all understand that I'm not calling you a crybaby just because you think VY is the way to go. There are some good posters who want us to draft VY and I respect those guys. They're also not the ones you're going to catch in here crying about the Texans not seeing the light or talking about giving their seats (if they even have seats) away now that Vince isn't going to be here. Those posters will all descend on the board like they did right after the Rose Bowl only this time they'll be venting. I for one will be enjoying every single minute of it.

Then following a few days of general disorder on the board they'll start to go away. A week after the Texans go with Bush and pass on VY I'll be able to talk to all of the posters who actually have a clue in a relatively calm environment. Sure the odd malcontent will still pop up every once in a while but that's normal. The mob will be gone. That's all I care about now.

... Next year we win or experience a solid turnaround, while [insert name of untouchable god-incarnate superhero we pass on] languishes on a bad team or, ironically, suffers an injury and sits out; while [player he was supposed to replace here] flourishes under new coach and revamped offense.

Emergence of "I knew it all alongs" on the board who suddenly can't get off [player he was supposed to replace here]'s nuts.

Life goes on.

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 02:18 PM
Talk about taking things out of context.

We are sitting at 0-3 and the guy says "I don’t think this week is necessarily a must win, but it is a must play well". I am sorry, you're freaking 0-3, the next week IS a must win unless you are OK with going 0-4. How many 0-4 teams make the playoffs? BTW, that was not taken out of context. I'm sorry but that is a defeatest attitude. What kind of message does that comment send the rest of the team or the fans? I knew the season was doomed when I read that especially because this guy is supposed to be the leader of the team.

What about his comment after the Bengals game? "I felt like we were playing to our potential today,"... The dude had just taken 7 sacks (I say taken because many were his own fault) and they lost the game. Even if you know your team sucks and barely losing is the best it is going to get, you keep that stuff to yourself and you darn sure don't tell the media that.

chuckm
01-23-2006, 02:21 PM
The dude had just taken 7 sacks (I say taken because many were his own fault) and they lost the game.

How many of the 7 would you say were his fault?

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 02:30 PM
How many of the 7 would you say were his fault?

Between the ones where he just falls down at the first sight of pressure, or the ones where he gets happy feet at the first sight of pressure and either runs into a defender or runs out of bounds behind the line, probably most of them or at least half.

Speaking of this I was watching some of the QB's in the playoffs like Roethlisberger and kept thinking to myself, "Carr would have went down there", where Ben would just take a step to the right or left and make a guy miss, or would have a guy draped all over him as he delivered a strike. At the first sight of a defender Carr would either take off running (either out of bounds or into another defender), or simply go into the fetal position and take the sack. I was saying all year that our O-line was getting a bad rap for many of those sacks. I can't remember which one but one lineman even pointed out this same thing during the season in defense of themselves.

chuckm
01-23-2006, 02:36 PM
Between the ones where he just falls down at the first sight of pressure, or the ones where he gets happy feet at the first sight of pressure and either runs into a defender or runs out of bounds behind the line, probably most of them.

Ok so let's take a conservative number to represent "most" ... let's take 5 .... that's 5 of 7 on Carr and 2 of 7 on the pass protection ... that's 71% rounded down .... so in 4 years Carr has been sacked 208 times, can I assume that according to you if another quarterback, let's say Roethlisberger, had of been in Carr's shoes that he would've only been sacked 59 times?

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 02:45 PM
Ok so let's take a conservative number to represent "most" ... let's take 5 .... that's 5 of 7 on Carr and 2 of 7 on the pass protection ... that's 71% rounded down .... so in 4 years Carr has been sacked 208 times, can I assume that according to you if another quarterback, let's say Roethlisberger, had of been in Carr's shoes that he would've only been sacked 59 times?

Who's to say? Different players react differently to situations. That being said, I would say that I believe Carr has become "shellshocked" and gotten happy feet over the years as a result of poor protection in the past, especially during the first season. I do think it is in large part the Texans fault that he has gotten like this. I am obviously concerned that his psyche is permanently damaged. This is why I think it might be best for both parties to have a change of scenery.

chuckm
01-23-2006, 02:50 PM
Who's to say? Different players react differently to situations. That being said, I would say that I believe Carr has become "shellshocked" and gotten happy feet over the years as a result of poor protection in the past, especially during the first season. I do think it is in large part the Texans fault that he has gotten like this. I am obviously concerned that his psyche is permanently damaged. This is why I think it might be best for both parties to have a change of scenery.


ok so now we're finding common ground .... I completely agree that Carr's "shellshocked" ... however where I believe we diverge, is whether or not Carr can be "rehabilitated" .... In my opinion, time with someone that actually played the postion, and isn't an old man, will do wonders for Carr ... IF AND ONLY IF the pass protection issues are corrected ... if they're not corrected then it doesn't matter whether we have Carr, Young or the resurrection of Johnny Unitas ... we might as well start running the single wing ...

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 02:56 PM
ok so now we're finding common ground .... I completely agree that Carr's "shellshocked" ... however where I believe we diverge, is whether or not Carr can be "rehabilitated" .... In my opinion, time with someone that actually played the postion, and isn't an old man, will do wonders for Carr ... IF AND ONLY IF the pass protection issues are corrected ... if they're not corrected then it doesn't matter whether we have Carr, Young or the resurrection of Johnny Unitas ... we might as well start running the single wing ...

Good thought, I hope you're right if they decide to go with Bush.

edo783
01-23-2006, 03:20 PM
Carr is also cool with losing just as long as he "plays well". :rolleyes:

http://www.nflplayers.com/players/player.aspx?id=32977&section=journal

Now Hooken, you have been spreading that crap for a couple of weeks. It is a quote out of context. At a point when it seemed our season was heading south (~ game 4 I think) he was asked if the game was a must win to save the season and the reply was no, it's not a must win, but we have to play well. What that means is, no our season isn't over if we don't win, but it's important that we play well in order to get our season back on track. Naturally you don't say it's a must win game that early in the season. What do you do if ya loss? It was a MUST win, so what quit? No, but it is important to play well and gain confidence so that the REST of the season the team can improve. I understand your promoting your GOD Vince, but it is no reason to take something out of context in order to smear someone you don't like. You are intentionaly promoting a falshood.

chuckm
01-23-2006, 03:23 PM
Now Hooken, you have been spreading that crap for a couple of weeks. ............. I understand your promoting your GOD Vince, but it is no reason to take something out of context in order to smear someone you don't like. You are intentionaly promoting a falshood.


tag you're it Hook'em .... come out swinging

Kaiser Toro
01-23-2006, 03:27 PM
Now Hooken, you have been spreading that crap for a couple of weeks. It is a quote out of context. At a point when it seemed our season was heading south (~ game 4 I think) he was asked if the game was a must win to save the season and the reply was no, it's not a must win, but we have to play well. What that means is, no our season isn't over if we don't win, but it's important that we play well in order to get our season back on track. Naturally you don't say it's a must win game that early in the season. What do you do if ya loss? It was a MUST win, so what quit? No, but it is important to play well and gain confidence so that the REST of the season the team can improve. I understand your promoting your GOD Vince, but it is no reason to take something out of context in order to smear someone you don't like. You are intentionaly promoting a falshood.

Some of it has some validity, but not on the playing field. Carr has not been the spokesman that I would have liked to see, but some guys just do not have it in them. This appears to be a weakness of Carr that really has no negative value unless he opens his mouth. This behavior is not a falsehood in my opinion, but it is an easily corrected behavior.

Texans_Chick
01-23-2006, 03:58 PM
I continue to chuckle at the sensitive emotions from people on the Bush-Young debate. I am reminded of Republicans and Democrats bickering during Presidential campaigns.

If a Republican is elected to office, a great majority of Democrats hope the Repubilcan President will be terrible and run the country into the ground so they can enjoy the satisfaction of telling everyone, "I told you so."

Conversely and every bit as equally, if a Democrat becomes President, a great majority of Republicans hope and pray the Democratic President screws up and runs the country in the ground so they can boast and say, "I told you so."


I am not sure how many folks are really "I told you so" people, but I will say that it is my belief that with a team with so few years in existence, combined with a poor record, the probability is that this sort of team is not going to set the world on fire the next year. It is quite possible that no matter who we draft, as a rookie, they will struggle surrounded by a new system and not much quality depth.

Personally, I'd rather be wrong like nobodies business and win, then have my worst case scenarios in my brain happen.

zeplin
01-23-2006, 04:00 PM
Quote:
Originally Posted by hof13026
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

Quote:
Originally posted by Profan
Well, you should prepare to give up your seats. Based on your illogical reasoning you should give back your seats. Most qb's would prefer a sack over an int. I would prefer a sack over a int. This is the first time i ever have heard of someone prefering an int over a sack for the offense. Are you the one making all the noise when the offense has the ball? Are you the one starting the wave when the offense has the ball? Got to be.

I actually had to read it two times to be sure that he said it. Int over a Sack!


Are you crazy?
You can Quote me on that.

Hervoyel
01-23-2006, 04:30 PM
We are sitting at 0-3 and the guy says "I don’t think this week is necessarily a must win, but it is a must play well". I am sorry, you're freaking 0-3, the next week IS a must win unless you are OK with going 0-4. How many 0-4 teams make the playoffs? BTW, that was not taken out of context. I'm sorry but that is a defeatest attitude. What kind of message does that comment send the rest of the team or the fans? I knew the season was doomed when I read that especially because this guy is supposed to be the leader of the team.

What about his comment after the Bengals game? "I felt like we were playing to our potential today,"... The dude had just taken 7 sacks (I say taken because many were his own fault) and they lost the game. Even if you know your team sucks and barely losing is the best it is going to get, you keep that stuff to yourself and you darn sure don't tell the media that.

You know what man, I watched those first three games too and I honestly cannot fault the man for saying that. Up until that point the offense hadn't even so much as played well so hey, maybe you found that to be the defining moment of the 2005 season or something but I thought our teams QB was simply saying "We better show a pulse pretty soon or this season is going to get out of hand real fast".

We didn't and it did. Who were we going to be beating? We were no threat to beat anybody at that point. Hookem you sound like a broken record or something with this "must play well" kick you've been on.

jerek
01-23-2006, 04:37 PM
You know what man, I watched those first three games too and I honestly cannot fault the man for saying that. Up until that point the offense hadn't even so much as played well so hey, maybe you found that to be the defining moment of the 2005 season or something but I thought our teams QB was simply saying "We better show a pulse pretty soon or this season is going to get out of hand real fast".

We didn't and it did. Who were we going to be beating? We were no threat to beat anybody at that point. Hookem you sound like a broken record or something with this "must play well" kick you've been on.

I am going to piggyback here because I don't want to take the time to type it all out.

Was Carr a defeatist, or a realist?

I know. Vince Young never loses, at anything. When he takes a dump, it smells like roses and the place is better than when he found it. People bag it up and sell it on eBay because certain members of the Vince Young fandom just can't get enough.

I am not going to say that what Carr said was the best thing he could have said, or the best way he could have put it. But that is not the same thing as saying the guy likes to lose, or doesn't want to win.

Are we done yet?

Hookem Horns
01-23-2006, 04:45 PM
Now Hooken, you have been spreading that crap for a couple of weeks. It is a quote out of context. At a point when it seemed our season was heading south (~ game 4 I think) he was asked if the game was a must win to save the season and the reply was no, it's not a must win, but we have to play well. What that means is, no our season isn't over if we don't win, but it's important that we play well in order to get our season back on track. Naturally you don't say it's a must win game that early in the season. What do you do if ya loss? It was a MUST win, so what quit? No, but it is important to play well and gain confidence so that the REST of the season the team can improve. I understand your promoting your GOD Vince, but it is no reason to take something out of context in order to smear someone you don't like. You are intentionaly promoting a falshood.

Actually, we have been discussing that quote for months, ever since he said it. Someone else posted it on the other board and most had the same reaction I did. A true leader doesn't make comments like that, I don't care how you try to slant it. So where is the falsehood? I am only quoting him word for word. For the record what you see in that NFL Players Journal is a summary of the Q&A. They omitted the questions. I was trying to find the link because the entire interview was posted on another site. The reporter asked him something like "At 0-3, how important is it to avoid an 0-4 start?" That's when he made that comment.

As far as Carr's defeatest attitude goes, it has nothing to do with VY. People were seriously questioning him long before VY was on the radar screen. Just scroll back and see how many Carr threads there were during the season.

Glacier
01-23-2006, 04:45 PM
I am going to piggyback here because I don't want to take the time to type it all out.

Was Carr a defeatist, or a realist?

I know. Vince Young never loses, at anything. When he takes a dump, it smells like roses and the place is better than when he found it. People bag it up and sell it on eBay because certain members of the Vince Young fandom just can't get enough.

I am not going to say that what Carr said was the best thing he could have said, or the best way he could have put it. But that is not the same thing as saying the guy likes to lose, or doesn't want to win.

Are we done yet?


Trade Carr for Joey Harrington. They are cut from the same cloth. :P

Kaiser Toro
01-23-2006, 05:08 PM
I am going to piggyback here because I don't want to take the time to type it all out.

Was Carr a defeatist, or a realist?

I know. Vince Young never loses, at anything. When he takes a dump, it smells like roses and the place is better than when he found it. People bag it up and sell it on eBay because certain members of the Vince Young fandom just can't get enough.

I am not going to say that what Carr said was the best thing he could have said, or the best way he could have put it. But that is not the same thing as saying the guy likes to lose, or doesn't want to win.

Are we done yet?

Jerek I am with you if this is framed in a Carr vs Young debate. But if it is a Carr discussion there have been many instances where this has shown itself in his career with the Texans. No biggie, but comments by opposing players are posted in the locker room and comments by a team mate such as these are indeed discussed in the whirl pool or at the training table.

chall8
01-23-2006, 05:12 PM
To me, very similar QB's. Neither are going to win games for you and, most of the time, neither of them are going singlehandedly to lose games for you.

That being said, both have the ability to implode at any given time, particularly in big games.

Both have pretty good physical skills. Both mediocre at best at reading defenses and looking off of coverages.

If you think Kubiak is going to transform Carr into the next Joe Montana, think again.

If you think you can live with a QB that can basically run the system and hope that his 3-4 bonehead plays per game don't hurt you, then Carr is your guy.

edo783
01-23-2006, 05:28 PM
So where is the falsehood? I am only quoting him word for word. For the record what you see in that NFL Players Journal is a summary of the Q&A. They omitted the questions. I was trying to find the link because the entire interview was posted on another site. The reporter asked him something like "At 0-3, how important is it to avoid an 0-4 start?" That's when he made that comment.

The falshood comes from intentionaly not putting the context. The question was "At 0-3 is this a MUST win game". The reply was "No, it's not a must win game". A logical and correct statement, because the otherside of that is that if it is a must win and you don't then the seasons over because you lost the must win. He then followed on with "But we must play well". Again that is a resonable statement, because if your ever going to get it going, it starts with playing well one game at a time and building on the good things and gaining confidence. One of the major items that happend last year IMO, was that the TEAM lost confidence in their ability to win. By playing well in a game that builds that confidence and that then breeds wins. I attribute that lack of confidence to the players recognising that Larry, Moe and Curly had no idea what to do from a coaching standpoint to have a good game plan/scheme and for the most part just mailed in the season after about the 4-5th game, because they saw it was a lost cause with them directing what was going on.

michaelm
01-23-2006, 05:36 PM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.


Nice first post... now switch back to your other user name so know one will know who you are and that you'd rather throw an INT than take a sack...

HoustonFrog
01-23-2006, 05:41 PM
The falshood comes from intentionaly not putting the context. The question was "At 0-3 is this a MUST win game". The reply was "No, it's not a must win game". A logical and correct statement, because the otherside of that is that if it is a must win and you don't then the seasons over because you lost the must win.

Just to play Devil's Advocate here, I don't think this is necessarily true. It WAS a must game if they were going to have a chance. It doesn't mean the season is tanked, it just means that in order to reach goals it is a pressure game they needed to win. "Must win" gets thrown around alot but it really just means, " a game to get to where we need to be as to our goals." During the Astros/Cards series people said Game 5 was a "must win" because we hadn't played well in St. Louis. Well we lost in heartbreaking fashion and still won the series. I think when a team hits 0-3 and your goal was to make the playoffs, then the next game is a Must Win. Just another opinion. But I don't think it defines the guy.

SESupergenius
01-23-2006, 06:34 PM
We are sitting at 0-3 and the guy says "I don’t think this week is necessarily a must win, but it is a must play well". I am sorry, you're freaking 0-3, the next week IS a must win unless you are OK with going 0-4. How many 0-4 teams make the playoffs? BTW, that was not taken out of context. I'm sorry but that is a defeatest attitude. .
Boy, you talk about overanalyzing. It's as clear as day that Carr said that thinking that he needed to lead this team by not panicking and overreacting, a trait that implodes a team faster than you can say Terrell Owens. A defeatist attitude would have been, "man we just suck today and we have no chance in playing next week", THAT is telling everyone that you've already been defeated and are giving up. I thought Carr did a very good job in trying to keep things positive, he could have easily turned on his teammates for lack of execution and fired off at the coaching staff, especially after laying one right in the hands of Bradford. If I had thrown that ball into Bradford's hands and he missed it like that and I go to the sideline and the coach is yelling at ME instead of Bradford, I'd of been one p'o'd customer.

infantrycak
01-23-2006, 06:38 PM
Boy, you talk about overanalyzing. It's as clear as day that Carr said that thinking that he needed to lead this team by not panicking and overreacting, a trait that implodes a team faster than you can say Terrell Owens.

Totally agree--this debate is silly. All it gives me is a vision of Crash Davis saying, "I'm just here for my team and to give 110%" and having someone else walk up and say what a loser mentality, don't you know it is, "I'm just here for my team and to give 120%."

GP
01-23-2006, 06:56 PM
Even though I don't agree with his point of view, Hook Em Horns is not taking it out of context.

Carr is the worst at public speaking since Mike Tyson. I've got a few Carr'isms of my own that leave me scratching my head. I really think the guy means one thing and it comes out another. When I finally understood that speaking is not his greatest gift, I was able to repress a lot of the anger that Hook Em Horns is still not able to repress (so it seems). I just happened to have gotten over it by now.

The fact of the matter is that this entire team took on an alter ego after the last game of the 2004 season. I really am a big proponent of the idea that the team individually, but yet collectively, figured out they had not an ice cube's chance in Tahiti under the Capers way of playing football. We're talking about a team that took the Patriots to the limit, beat Carolina at home, and was generally in almost each ballgame they played in 2004. To just suddenly reverse that is not the mistake of one man (David Carr).

Carr is here. It's done. Dream all you want, if that's your gig, but Kubiak is known for at least slowing the rate of blood loss with his QBs.

And with Casserly getting neutered, for all practical purposes, we'll have a great shot at rebounding with better draft talent than we've ever been able to get our hands on in one draft.

Cheer up. Happy times are here again. At least until opening day :)

Erratic Assassin
01-23-2006, 07:04 PM
I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

Anyone in his right mind would prefer our QB to take a sack instead of throwing an interception. An interception can easily translate into points for the other team.

How in the world can David Carr's willingness to take a beating for the good of the team be considered "selfishness" on his part? Force = Mass time Acceleration. Being hit repeatedly by big guys running 4.3's = a world of pain.

David Carr has taken over 200 sacks in his short career. Would you prefer 200 sacks or 200 interceptions?

Caesar
01-23-2006, 07:17 PM
Ofcourse KubiAg is going to keep Carr rather than drafting VY. Heck, who wants leadership and freakish athletic ability when you can have a Calvin Klein model?

Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

edo783
01-23-2006, 07:28 PM
Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

Based on how some/a lot of the UT folks have acted on this board....sounds about right. I know they all aren't dunderheads, but there is a large group that make that hard to see.

kevlar_h
01-23-2006, 07:28 PM
i just dont see us having Bush for a long perion of time may be 2 years until some DT tackles him and breaks him and half.

At 6'0" and 200 lbs, he's not a paper doll. Everything I've read about him compares him to Ladainian Tomlinson.

I don't know which is the right choice for the Texans between Young and Bush.

I think given the right opportunity Carr could turn into a pro-bowl QB. We also have a pretty good RB in Davis. So either way, we'll be getting redundency at whichever position unless we trade our current player.

As for trading down? I don't trust Casserly with extra draft picks at the expense of the #1 pick.

Texans86
01-24-2006, 01:19 AM
Ofcourse KubiAg is going to keep Carr rather than drafting VY. Heck, who wants leadership and freakish athletic ability when you can have a Calvin Klein model?

Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

You have got to be kidding right? So he doesn't go for Vince. Ok. Huff is taken. Fine. Scott is available in the second round, but so is Eric Winston, or maybe a stud TE like Pope. Too many factors go into the drafting decision than where a kid went to college. There are only a few players coming out of UT compared to how many slots there are in the entire draft. There is very little reason to suppose that Kubiak will decide on one player or another because of where someone went to college. That's childish and he didn't get the respect he has by doing things like that.

SheTexan
01-24-2006, 05:07 AM
Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

I was wondering how long it would take for all the antiAGGIE cr*p to start. Wow, I didn't have to wait long!!!:sarcasm: The man hasn't even signed on the dotted line and we already have FANS? dissing him because he is an Aggie!! Give me a break!!

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 08:53 AM
Boy, you talk about overanalyzing. It's as clear as day that Carr said that thinking that he needed to lead this team by not panicking and overreacting, a trait that implodes a team faster than you can say Terrell Owens. A defeatist attitude would have been, "man we just suck today and we have no chance in playing next week", THAT is telling everyone that you've already been defeated and are giving up. I thought Carr did a very good job in trying to keep things positive, he could have easily turned on his teammates for lack of execution and fired off at the coaching staff, especially after laying one right in the hands of Bradford. If I had thrown that ball into Bradford's hands and he missed it like that and I go to the sideline and the coach is yelling at ME instead of Bradford, I'd of been one p'o'd customer.

Great job, SES.

chuckm
01-24-2006, 08:57 AM
Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.


a post like this has to give pause to REAL UT fans ....

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 09:15 AM
Ofcourse KubiAg is going to keep Carr rather than drafting VY. Heck, who wants leadership and freakish athletic ability when you can have a Calvin Klein model?

Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

Face the facts, Texas A&M still produces more NFL-ready players than UT. UT has 26 players in the NFL and TAMU has 42. UT tries to up this number on their website by still listing Jerry Gray and Kyle Shanahan as "active" in the NFL. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there! :heh:

My point is that IF Kubiak's Texans do not draft a Longhorn, it won't be because of some bias.

I am not anti-Longhorn, just looking at the facts.

BTW, If David Thomas lasts until the first pick of the fourth round, he may be Kubiak's first UT draft choice. :redtowel:

gwallaia
01-24-2006, 10:03 AM
The man hasn't even signed on the dotted line and we already have FANS? dissing him because he is an Aggie!! Give me a break!!

I wonder how quick the "Fire Kubiak" threads will pop up if the season does not get off to a good start?

Runner
01-24-2006, 10:05 AM
Face the facts, Texas A&M still produces more NFL-ready players than UT. UT has 26 players in the NFL and TAMU has 42. UT tries to up this number on their website by still listing Jerry Gray and Kyle Shanahan as "active" in the NFL. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there! :heh:



Where did you get this info? I was interested to see the numbers other schools like Ohio State have in the NFL just for general information.

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 10:21 AM
Where did you get this info? I was interested to see the numbers other schools like Ohio State have in the NFL just for general information.

On the school website. Texas has a link on their football site that says: "NFL Longhorns" and A&M has a link called "Aggies in the NFL".

Here is a link to other links about Ohio State:

Buckeyes in the NFL (http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/nfl.html)

SheTexan
01-24-2006, 10:23 AM
I wonder how quick the "Fire Kubiak" threads will pop up if the season does not get off to a good start?

We won't have to wait until the season starts. The "fire Kubiak" threads will start approximately 5 seconds after the Texans draft Reggie Bush.

cuppacoffee
01-24-2006, 10:38 AM
Well, then I guess Kubiak is going to be as inept as Capers. I heard Carr's philosophy on the radio last month. He stated he'd rather "take a sack than throw an interception". Yeah, that saves his stats and he can blame the Line for the sack.

Texans will go nowhere with a self-serving qb. Vince is the pick. If they don't take it - I might give them back my seats for next year.

Understanding football is not your strong point is it?

HoustonFrog
01-24-2006, 10:44 AM
Where did you get this info? I was interested to see the numbers other schools like Ohio State have in the NFL just for general information.

The Texas A&M pipeline will die soon since they don't even have players that can play on other college teams now..lol.

Htown34s
01-24-2006, 10:47 AM
So now all you Kubiak lovers, are all of a sudden Kubiak haters, because he chose Carr over VY?
That has got to be really shallow. :loser :thumbdown

Sort of jumping to conclusions aren't you?

cuppacoffee
01-24-2006, 10:59 AM
Ofcourse KubiAg is going to keep Carr rather than drafting VY. Heck, who wants leadership and freakish athletic ability when you can have a Calvin Klein model?

Anyone care to wager on an over/under for the number of UT players the Texans draft with KubiAg as the coach? I'll go with zero.

That makes more sense than drafting every horn player that the sippers on this board want the Texans to draft.

VY already better than Carr?..:pigfly: He never will be. My opinion holds as much weight as yours.

Horns finally win something and all of a sudden all of their fans are football experts.

Ill be glad when OK takes back their conference championship and shuts up all the sippers.

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 11:00 AM
The Texas A&M pipeline will die soon since they don't even have players that can play on other college teams now..lol.

Nope. Even during the lean years, A&M still outproduces UT. I think the next few years the tide will SHIFT not change forever.

BTW, How many Horned Frogs in the NFL currently? ;)

Honoring Earl 34
01-24-2006, 11:03 AM
:stirpot: I think I would pass on Vince and Reggie . I would trade down and stockpile picks . If you have seven early picks and come away with four future starters you have done well .

I would tell Kubiak that from the third round on he can select a QB he thinks has the ability to be a NFL starter . A guy like Toledo's QB who has completed 70% of his passes 2 years in a row or maybe Reggie Mcneal ( he's an Aggie you know ) . This hand picked prospect should make the Texans QB competion more spicy without ignoring the rest of the team .

Caesar
01-24-2006, 06:39 PM
In fairness to Kubiak, the Texans have been anti-UT from the beginning. Seth Wand over Derrick Dockery, Dave Ragone over Chris Simms, Travis Johnson over Derrick Johnson, and now Reggie Bush over Vince Young. I've seen people bring up the possibility of taking Jonathan Scott in the second round or David Thomas in the fourth. It won't happen, as the above examples should prove.

I'm not saying that they should intentionally take players to cater to a particular college fanbase (though they had no problem jumping on Aaron Glenn and Steve McKinney the instant they were available), but at least don't avoid Texas players. Throw us a frickin bone here.

Grid
01-24-2006, 06:44 PM
In fairness to Kubiak, the Texans have been anti-UT from the beginning

thats a load of you know what.

One player that comes immediatly to mind is Roy Williams who we wanted more than AJ, but didnt declare that season.. and then the next season we wanted him but couldnt trade up to get him.

Another player that comes to mind is Sloan Thomas.. who didnt last on the team.

LoneStarState
01-24-2006, 07:12 PM
Throw us a frickin bone here.
Kubiak's hiring Kyle Shanahan - WR at UT. Doesn't that help? :)

TEXANRED
01-24-2006, 07:30 PM
The Texas A&M pipeline will die soon since they don't even have players that can play on other college teams now..lol.
Heeeeeyyyyyyyyy.:challenge That hurts just a little. Just cause we Aggie fans have a sorry D, sorry O, and left with no hope or a light at the end of the tunnel doesnt mean we have to get personal.

I love all the Longhorn fans who are saying they will give all there tickets back and never watch another game and will even be a Titan fan if the Texans dont draft there boy. Its much like watching a three year old throw themselves on the floor, screaming and crying and yelling cause they cant get the toy they want.

It's even funnier watching some of the Longhorn fans screaming for Kubiaks head even though he hasent even signed the contract.

The best one is the one where they are going to accuse Kubiak of not taking Young cause he is an Aggie and will never take a Longhorn.

Hookem Horns
01-24-2006, 07:36 PM
This is ridiculous. Who cares what college a player went to, it's not going to amount to a hill of beans when they are in the NFL. Honestly, I don't root for x-UT guys (unless they are on a team I root for in the NFL). Just draft and sign the best players.

Runner
01-24-2006, 08:22 PM
On the school website. Texas has a link on their football site that says: "NFL Longhorns" and A&M has a link called "Aggies in the NFL".

Here is a link to other links about Ohio State:

Buckeyes in the NFL (http://ohiostatebuckeyes.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/archive/nfl.html)

Thanks!

Hardcore Texan
01-24-2006, 08:24 PM
Wow. Is this really what it has come too. Posters rippin' each other's college teams for the "Who we should draft debate". Come on guys we can be a little better that this. I agree with Hook Em, it is a profession, a career, do some of you get overlooked for promotions at work because your boss went to a rival school. I certainly hope not!

I would prefer to believe Kubiak is above this type of thinking or we are in for a long season. The best players should be the preference not what school they attended. Look, for the record I am Longhorn fan, but I don't hate on the Aggies, except for one week in November. I am glad Kubiak is our coach and coming home to TEXAS! Whoever can make our team better and help us get more W's are who I want to see on the field.

:texflag: :fans:

Nighthawk
01-24-2006, 08:37 PM
Ok so let's take a conservative number to represent "most" ... let's take 5 .... that's 5 of 7 on Carr and 2 of 7 on the pass protection ... that's 71% rounded down .... so in 4 years Carr has been sacked 208 times, can I assume that according to you if another quarterback, let's say Roethlisberger, had of been in Carr's shoes that he would've only been sacked 59 times?

Hard to guess at this, but just thinking about it and how Carr plays and what other QBs do it's probably safe to say half are Carr's.

But let's be conservative the other direction and say only a third are Carr's, OK? Now, you want a QB that brings 69 sacks with him?

Or maybe you'd prefer, what with the poor blocking, bad schemes, unopen receivers, high wind, lousy coaching, to say only a quarter are Carr's?

So now you're eager to keep a QB that causes 52 sacks in 4 years?

I don't think you've got a good argument in here anywhere.

outofhnd
01-24-2006, 08:38 PM
So let me get this straight the fact we have a qb who can throw well on the run and would thrive in the denver offensive scheme. Has 4 years of punishment under his belt with no major injuries is not attractive to a 1st year coach? That is great! Never tip your hand till you win the pot.. Great poker by the texans to keep it a mystery. That means we are flexible come april, that means we can maximize our value for the first overall pick by either drafting whoever we want or trading down and stockpiling picks. Chances are though if we trade down Matt Leinhart will be the #1 overall pick because the saints are hoping he falls to them with the 2nd overall pick. So like last year when the saints after they traded up with us to get Thomas davis watched Carolina Screw them. So would be the only reason a team would trade up to our position. There are many other 1st round Backs available besides Bush so not many teams needin a RB will trade up figureing on getting another back.

Nighthawk
01-24-2006, 08:41 PM
So let me get this straight the fact we have a qb who can throw well on the run

Can throw well on the run!!! You got to be kidding. He can't even run well on the run.

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 09:22 PM
Can throw well on the run!!! You got to be kidding. He can't even run well on the run.

Now we know you just a Carr-hater and nothing more. This is the most ridiculous statement I have read in a while and with the Bush and VY threads gone wild that is quite a statement.

Jack Bauer
01-24-2006, 09:24 PM
Kubiak's hiring Kyle Shanahan - WR at UT. Doesn't that help? :)

Yeah, since UTs website lists him as "active" in the NFL anyway. He counts as a player for the university...

outofhnd
01-24-2006, 09:28 PM
God its not even febuary and we are arguing about the draft.

michaelm
01-24-2006, 09:46 PM
Face the facts, Texas A&M still produces more NFL-ready players than UT. UT has 26 players in the NFL and TAMU has 42. UT tries to up this number on their website by still listing Jerry Gray and Kyle Shanahan as "active" in the NFL. I don't care who you are, that's funny right there! :heh:


I think you're right that the Ag's have more active players, but that number will be a lot closer after this draft...

PapaL
01-24-2006, 10:01 PM
God its not even febuary and we are arguing about the draft.

You're right. Its going to be a LONG offseason. Same posts and arguements here for months to come. Hence why I found another interest until Draft time.