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beerlover
01-22-2006, 10:02 AM
OK here we go next stop after the Senior Bowl is the combine and besides their 40 times, shuttles, interviewing and weightlifting there is a little thing called the Wonderlick test. The WPT measures a player's cognitive and reasoning ability, helping teams determine if a possible draft pick has the skills to follow directions and react to what's going on around him - all skills that are critical on the field. http://www.freerepublic.com/focus/f-news/1312628/posts The first use of the WPT in the NFL was by Tom Landry of the Dallas Cowboys in the early 70s, who took a scientific approach to finding players. He believed that players who could use their minds where it counted had a strategic advantage over the other teams. The test has been used every year at the combine ever since. the focus of this article is the QB position. I cannot wait to see the scores of Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart :) just for refrenece David Carr scored a 24 while Drew Henson scored a 42 maybe a reason why the Texans where able to get a 3rd rd. draft pick for him from the Cowboys who value this measureable. Tom Brady 33 Eli Manning 39:spy:

Lucky
01-22-2006, 10:21 AM
...I cannot wait to see the scores of Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart :)...
I'll bet both score higher than Dan Marino's 14. Which goes to show this test is worthless in judging a player's football ability. What is does show is how often the guys came to class and didn't fall asleep. Marino seems like a guy who would doze thru anything non-football related.

run-david-run
01-22-2006, 10:40 AM
Its not a academic test, its a strange combination of questions that try to measure how a player thinks under stress. This is not an IQ test.

beerlover
01-22-2006, 11:04 AM
I'll bet both score higher than Dan Marino's 14. Which goes to show this test is worthless in judging a player's football ability. What is does show is how often the guys came to class and didn't fall asleep. Marino seems like a guy who would doze thru anything non-football related.

worthless hardley just how many Superbowls did Dan Marino win exactly? the fact he did not see the importance of studying did not exactly confirm his football ability to the Scouts (drafted 27th but was the 6th QB selected). Also as long as your including legends I never thought that Brett Farve was very smart (22) just competitive with great arm strength, always forcing the ball into tight coverage, taking multiple shots to the head and then not knowing when its time to retire. As oppossed to a Troy Aikmen (29) or Steve Young (33) who knew when it was time to hang em up :rolleyes:

Vinny
01-22-2006, 11:20 AM
Marino not winning a Super Bowl wasn't because he didn't fair well in his Wonder-lick (wonderlic) test. Lucky knows what this test is RDR....we have talked about it every year for half a decade or so around here in great detail....with Lucky sharing his views on this test in detail...and I somewhat agree with his thoughts but don't totally discount the test relevance.

ArlingtonTexan
01-22-2006, 11:30 AM
Just for reference the average score on this test is 21. Over time the NFL players as a group have scored pretty close to this average at 19.

While not a pure "academic" test, those who are more scholastic in nature generally are more comfortable with taking tests and understand how to take test thus giving them some advantage.

awtysst
01-22-2006, 11:58 AM
Maybe I can shed a little light on this issue. The Wonderlic is an intelligence test that was devised in order to assess aptitude for learning a job and adapting to solve problems for employees in a wide range of occupations. It is a test that some organizations give to prospective employees upon hiring. The problem is that while the test can be given by anyone not everyone can INTREPRET the results. Think about this, if I told you what I scored on a mock Wonderlic, what would you conclude from that? Would you be able to conclude anything of substance? I would say no becuase yall have not learned how to intrpret the scores properly. So, while yall can sit and compare scores, let me ask you, are you familair with the test's standard deviation? If not, how do you asses scores? How do yopu know one score in reference to another without the STD?

I am linking to a Wonderlic.

Each correct answer here is worth 1 point, there is no penalty for guessing or getting incorrect answers. Highest score possibly on this is 16, 50 on wonderlic, so create a ratio and figure out the what your score would be on the wonderlic. Then post it in response if you are so daring. Set your timer to 4 minutes.

Ready!

Are you sure?

Ok. scroll down and ENJLOY!

In a little bit, I will post my score from last year when I took it, both in raw score and converted Wonderlic score.

http://espn.go.com/page2/s/closer/020228test.html

beerlover
01-22-2006, 01:43 PM
Marino not winning a Super Bowl wasn't because he didn't fair well in his Wonder-lick (wonderlic) test. Lucky knows what this test is RDR....we have talked about it every year for half a decade or so around here in great detail....with Lucky sharing his views on this test in detail...and I somewhat agree with his thoughts but don't totally discount the test relevance.


As much as I respect your opinions I'll have to go with Tom Landry on this one :homer:

Tulip
01-22-2006, 01:45 PM
I scored in the high 40s, and I'm a terrible QB.

:jk:

beerlover
01-22-2006, 01:47 PM
While not a pure "academic" test, those who are more scholastic in nature generally are more comfortable with taking tests and understand how to take test thus giving them some advantage.

this is certainly a valid point. measures preperation and proclivity to study & pay attention to detail thats about it. wheather that translates to the football field or the workforce in general is only a supposition :)

sprtsfanatic
01-22-2006, 01:49 PM
now thats a challenge!! Although I wont be taking the test...I like the perspective given and agree...what is the standard and what EXACTLY are you testing for....if the highest scores were best then why dont we have more Legendary qb's from....say Harvard....where atleast two that I know of have scored perfect scores...what has come of their career and numbers....:stirpot:

beerlover
01-22-2006, 02:08 PM
I scored in the high 40s, and I'm a terrible QB.

:jk:


you gotta be good at something :hmmm: maybe bean counting :money:

I only used four minutes & did not answear two questions and scored 12/15 or 36. makes me think alot of these guys don't even try. scores less than 15 would really concern me if they were not physically blessed or could jump over tall buildings with a single leap like Vince Young or Reggie Bush-

cap1
01-22-2006, 02:17 PM
I got 13 out of 15, I would have gotten 14, but I messed up my algerbra in my head. I would have gout # 11 right if I would have written it down. oh well.

A Texan
01-22-2006, 02:26 PM
I see Carr is 3rd. on the Texans behind Ragone and Banks. If you believe in all this maybe we should sign Jesse "The Bachelor" Palmer.

stevo3883
01-22-2006, 03:03 PM
P-buc aced it!





and by aced, I mean he got around a 7

Khari
01-22-2006, 03:11 PM
I got 11......but down around number 12 my attention span ran out. :muscles:

run-david-run
01-22-2006, 03:47 PM
yeah, i got 11, but i had music playing, i was watching the broncos/steelers and champ bailey getting burned, and was talking to my mom....

awtysst
01-23-2006, 12:23 AM
When I took this test last year I scored a 14 That would translate to a 44 on the 50 point wonderlic.

awtysst
01-23-2006, 12:23 AM
I see Carr is 3rd. on the Texans behind Ragone and Banks. If you believe in all this maybe we should sign Jesse "The Bachelor" Palmer.

Sign me! I got a 44 on it!

Texian
01-23-2006, 01:10 AM
I think the wunderlic test is helpful in determing if a player can read and comprehend an NFL playbook. It is also helpful to teams in setting their draft board. You probably don't want to take someone in the 1st RD with a GTD multi-million dollar payday who scored a 7 on the wunderlic test ala Atlanta Falcons and Aundrey Bruce. While Marino was taken in the 1st RD (27th) he was the 6th QB taken and the 27th pick in 83 was not a hugh GTD contract and his score was just below average.

TheOgre
01-23-2006, 11:20 AM
I have heard that the "powers that be" are looking for minimum scores for a player based upon the position they play. That is the primary purpose of it. However, I bet there are secondary reasons it can be used as well (like determining how fast a player can pick up the plays). I would imagine that QB and O-linemen would have the highest minimum requirements.

BringItOn
01-24-2006, 05:30 PM
Roy Williams scored a 9 on the test 2 years ago. I don't think there are a lot of 2nd year WR's I would rather have.

Youngstown Colt
01-24-2006, 05:33 PM
P-buc aced it!





and by aced, I mean he got around a 7Yeah, I hear you get 10 points just for spelling your name right. Fortunately, he got credit for correctly spelling Showtime.

Huge
01-24-2006, 07:44 PM
Roy Williams scored a 9 on the test 2 years ago. I don't think there are a lot of 2nd year WR's I would rather have.
Actually, he scored a 17 (http://www.cfbnews.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12352).

Wonderlic scores should matter about as much as 40 times.

Both are ridiculous when it comes to measuring a player's ability to play football.

awtysst
01-24-2006, 08:10 PM
Actually, he scored a 17 (http://www.cfbnews.com/forum/topic.asp?TOPIC_ID=12352).

Wonderlic scores should matter about as much as 40 times.

Both are ridiculous when it comes to measuring a player's ability to play football.

Are you saying my 44 means nothing then?!

MikeMc
01-24-2006, 08:15 PM
Unless you take the real Wonderlic in a true Wonderlic testing setting, the score is pointless. Also, ESPN and the like show the easy questions. A true Wonderlic gets more difficult as you progress through the test. I had to take the Wonderlic for every job interview....Finance Industry.

They could never tell me my score, just that I did outstanding....which I knew I would......as Vinny and the old-timers on the HTMB know, I am a member of Mensa! :homer:

awtysst
01-24-2006, 08:21 PM
Unless you take the real Wonderlic in a true Wonderlic testing setting, the score is pointless. Also, ESPN and the like show the easy questions. A true Wonderlic gets more difficult as you progress through the test. I had to take the Wonderlic for every job interview....Finance Industry.

They could never tell me my score, just that I did outstanding....which I knew I would......as Vinny and the old-timers on the HTMB know, I am a member of Mensa! :homer:

Actually I have taken a real Wonderlic. I took it as part of a class I took in Psychological testing. The class sat in a room and filled it out a bunch of tests together then used the combined class data for the rest of the class as part of our psychometrics portion. My score on the real Wonderlic was 41. 44 just sounds better as i hit that on the conversion, but my real score was 41.

MikeMc
01-24-2006, 08:27 PM
????

So it was a group effort? Does not sound like a real Wonderlic to me. Maybe the UT football team would score a combined 50!!!

VY don't talks to good. If he could not master the art of the English language, how would he know how to use reason to master a challenging task?

Mack did say that he just let VY do his thang......"ummm, get ball from shotgun...and RUN!".....sounds like he learned a lot.

He will probably be one of the lowest scorers of the Wonderlic at the combine....it will make all the highlights / news...and the love for VY will be gone.........then Kubiak will get Cass to use logic to trade down, draft Mario Williams, and get extra picks for the future of the team....not give into hype or PR moves as a basis for drafting Bush or Young.

awtysst
01-24-2006, 08:35 PM
????

So it was a group effort? Does not sound like a real Wonderlic to me. Maybe the UT football team would score a combined 50!!!

No. We filled out the tests individually but there were 15 of us in the room doing it. Each of us had our own table and the professor timed us from the front of the room on the Wonderlic using his own wristwatch. We then POOLED the raw data to create information which we could then use for psychometric purposes.

I have not been to a Wonderlic center, so I do not know if they have you sit in a room by yourself and if a person is watching you as you take it. Also, the wonderlic was just one test we filled out that day. In addition to the Wonderlic, we filled out a TAT, MMPI-III, and a Beck Depression Inventory. Needless to say it was a long day of testing, if anyone is familair with any of those specific tests.

Huge
01-24-2006, 09:35 PM
VY don't talks to good. If he could not master the art of the English language, how would he know how to use reason to master a challenging task?
I'll leave this one alone. :D

MikeMc
01-25-2006, 09:49 AM
But then again, he didn't get a UTA education either! I doubt most of the UTA FB players do get UTA educations.....judging by the graduation rates.

SESupergenius
01-25-2006, 10:37 AM
Here is a good ole Wonderlic debate: http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=7419&page=2&highlight=wonderlic

Brett Farve scored a 23 on the wonderlic, comparable to David Carr's.

There are standardized tests for almost everything now. Having the wonderlic for the NFL shouldn't be any different. It's a test, not an all inclusive measurement. You have to have a player take the test, then talk to them about the test and how either he did so well or why he stunk it up. You get more out of the test than just figures, there is a whole interview process, not unlike interviewing for a job.

Take it for what it's worth, but if I had two players with exactly the same kind of skill and one had a wonderlic test in the range of Peek at 13 or a score of 30, I'm leaning more towards the one with 30. Call me crazy.

TheOgre
01-25-2006, 10:42 AM
I am a member of Mensa!

Is that the Spanish version of the Masons. :D: