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View Full Version : For The Stat 'Mongers'


tsip
01-22-2006, 09:55 AM
...just some 'food for thought, take it anyway you want.

QB CAREER STATS/COLLEGE

ATT/COMP YDS TDS

Dave Ragone 664/1133 8544 73
M Applewhite 611/1064 8353 60
D Carr 538/849 7177 64
C Simms 575/941 7097 58

Sure, there are a lot of other stats out there and I'm not trying to put anyone down, but it makes me wonder what the knock is against Ragone by the Texans. He and Carr both had good QB running stats, so it's easy to see why both were drafted, and why Ragone was selected over Simms.:confused:

infantrycak
01-22-2006, 10:03 AM
So what's your point?--BJ's stats blew them all away. I'd like to see Ragone get more play time when Carr is hurt and when the game is beyond redemption, i.e. he should have played quite a bit this last year, but in practice you can clearly see Ragone is not near as consistant as Carr. There's your knock.

Runner
01-22-2006, 10:40 AM
Ragone really should have been given some game time druing this lost season so the Texans could make a wise choice with him. His college career and NFLe play shows that he is has done well at every level he's had playing time. We should know after 3 years if he coud compete at the NFL level. He may just be a bad practice player - there are some of those. I've heard Sharper was better in games than at practice when he was here, for instance.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 11:04 AM
Ragone really should have been given some game time druing this lost season so the Texans could make a wise choice with him. His college career and NFLe play shows that he is has done well at every level he's had playing time. We should know after 3 years if he coud compete at the NFL level. He may just be a bad practice player - there are some of those. I've heard Sharper was better in games than at practice when he was here, for instance.

Ragone was good in NFLE because he played against back-ups who are at his same level of talent. The NFLE is for players that will more than likely never get to play in the NFL. Is their a bright shining star ever once in a while, yeah.

Tailgate
01-22-2006, 11:08 AM
Not sure what the point is here. But I will take it as this. Teams evaluate talent BEFORE they draft them and come to the best conclusions they can before making their selections. There is a reason Carr would have been selected in the first round by any team in the league and Applewhite is now coaching in college instead of playing. At the same time it is not a perfect science.

tsip
01-22-2006, 11:36 AM
So what's your point?--BJ's stats blew them all away. I'd like to see Ragone get more play time when Carr is hurt and when the game is beyond redemption, i.e. he should have played quite a bit this last year, but in practice you can clearly see Ragone is not near as consistant as Carr. There's your knock.

BJ's Career

489/769 5881 55

aj.
01-22-2006, 11:40 AM
Conclusion: stats can be misleading. Next.

Vinny
01-22-2006, 11:46 AM
Ragone was good in NFLE because he played against back-ups who are at his same level of talent. The NFLE is for players that will more than likely never get to play in the NFL. Is their a bright shining star ever once in a while, yeah.There have been 3 NFLe QB's to start a Pro Bowl.

Also - Stats are for baseball. You have to actually watch football players to form a quality opinion.

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2006, 11:53 AM
Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.

tsip
01-22-2006, 12:03 PM
Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.

...look at the bright side...now that Major is the new OC for Rice, you can hate him closer to home

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2006, 12:19 PM
...look at the bright side...now that Major is the new OC for Rice, you can hate him closer to home

As I said I don't hate Major, just his fans. I am sure when Mack Brown "only" wins 10 games next year and then "only" wins 11 the following you will be hearing plenty of fans calling for Major to be HC at UT. That may be your dream, but that is my nightmare.

swtbound07
01-22-2006, 12:52 PM
There have been 3 NFLe QB's to start a Pro Bowl.

Also - Stats are for baseball. You have to actually watch football players to form a quality opinion.


if you would have just said "silly rabbit, stats are for baseball" i would have a new signature right now

profan
01-22-2006, 01:22 PM
Major Applewhite, the ghost of Texas past. If there truly is ying for every yang I hope that Chris Simms goes onto be a coach and destroys Applewhite's teams. I do not hate Major as a person or even as a player, I just hate those rabid Major fans who spouted nothing but venom at Simms while they were Sunday morning quarterbacking at Luby's all filled up with fire, brimstone and fried okra.
You do not hate him? Seems like you have a major problem. Get over it and keep these comments out of texans talk. There is another section for these comments and it's not in this section.

thunderkyss
01-22-2006, 01:35 PM
There are so many things that don't show up on the stat chart, that goes into evaluating a QB, it really is hard to say. I've watched Chriss Simms play at Texas, and I've never seen anything that would make you believe he would play like he has for TB..... So whatever that X-Factor is, I'll be the first to tell you I have no idea what it is.

But on the same note, so many times teams make the mistake of signing a player to a big lucrative contract after only one year of great play.

David Carr's contract was inked based on what we thought he would do. AAron Brooks contract was inked on one year of great play. Vick, on one year of exciting football. If vince signs to a lucrative contract, it'll be based on what we think he'll do.

That's just the way it is, I know.

But Ragone......... he may very well be the next DelHOmme. Only time will tell.

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2006, 01:36 PM
You do not hate him? Seems like you have a major problem. Get over it and keep these comments out of texans talk. There is another section for these comments and it's not in this section.

No hate, no problem. Good call on the Texans talk comments, but hey, I did manage to discuss two out of the four subjects in the threads initial post. A party foul, maybe.

Back on topic ,I am not really a stats person nor am I a huge college football fan, as I love the NFL. But out of those four QB's Major Applewhite was clearly the least ready to be an NFL player due to his weak arm, small frame and non athletic nature - of course that is by NFL standards and the market bore that out.

I was not surprised Ragone was taken over Simms as the negative hype was to over bearing for NFL GM's to think intelligently. I thought he was a late two/early three. I still cannot believe we took a QB at that spot.

profan
01-22-2006, 01:48 PM
I was surprised we took a qb at that spot also. Seems like we could have selected a player that would be on the field contributing rather than sitting #3 on the depth chart. I liked Ragone better than Sims, but really was surprised to see Sims drop so low. Applewhite was never on my NFL radar, i think applwhite was a better college qb than Sims, but Sims had more pro potential. Ragone still beats them both.

A Texan
01-22-2006, 01:59 PM
Not getting picked high in the NFL was the greatist thing that could happen to Simms. Not a lot was expected and he could sit back and take his time developing. Contrast this with the expectations out of high school. His affluent background actually hurt him. He had played in a questionable prep league so he wasn't really ready for big time college ball despite good stats. The pressure to prove himself in big games got to be too much and he tried to do too much resulting in costly mistakes. They should have just brought him along slow and let fans howl if they wanted. I hope he continues to do well.

tsip
01-22-2006, 03:25 PM
"of course that is by NFL standards and the market bore that out"

I'm not sure what your thinking is here because the fact is that Applewhite signed a free agent contract with the New England Patriots, receiving a signing bonus. Then, for whatever reason, he gave back the money and walked away without ever playing a down. However, some pretty good evaluators were willing to give him a shot. Too, as far as weak arm, Major became Texas all time leading passer by putting up his numbers in less than 3 years, losing his job to Simms due to an injury and never given a chance to get it back, sitting out his entire senior year. Also, Majors YPC was very good as he was not a dink dink thrower and he still holds a couple records in the top 5 longest TDs in Longhorn History--96 and 97. Applewhite was one of those QBs that made the throws-whatever they needed to be--but he was injury prone and his weak knees may have been his NFL decision maker.

Part of Applwhite's popularity was due to his non-stop involvement in the community and smile and pleasant demeanor. I'm sure we'll hear his name often once he is at the helm at Rice.

Carr's YPC 13.3
Applewhite's YPC 13.7