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View Full Version : Bates, Pariani Offered Coordinator Contracts?


TEXANS84
01-21-2006, 10:40 AM
Both reports via kffl.com:

Texans | Offer pending to Bates?
Sat, 21 Jan 2006 06:57:02 -0800

PackersNews.com reports the Houston Texans are believed to have made former Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator Jim Bates a lucrative offer to take over their defense. Houston is going to hire Denver offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak as their new head coach, according to numerous reports, but the Texans have to wait until the Broncos' season is finished before they can make the move. They can hire members of the coaching staff, presumably with Kubiak's approval, and the demand for Bates means they probably can't wait until Denver's season ends to have a shot at him.

Texans | Pariani could head to Houston
Fri, 20 Jan 2006 17:13:58 -0800

Tim Gorman, of the Daily Orange, reports Syracuse University offensive coordinator Brian Pariani could be headed to the Houston Texans. Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak, a friend of Pariani's, will reportedly accept the head coaching position in Houston after the Broncos' season ends and he may want to bring Pariani to Houston.

Vinny
01-21-2006, 10:48 AM
I'm incredibly stoked on Bates. He is one of the best. I have my fingers crossed.

Less than stoked on Brian Pariani. Syracuse was awful last year offensively and they operated just like Capers and his staff did by forcing a system on players instead of building a system around their talents.

http://www.uhnd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1129872477&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1

Grid
01-21-2006, 10:56 AM
Bates looks like a good hiring.. im not too worried about who we hire as OC. Kubiak ran the offense in Denver and I imagine he will do the same here. Whoever he hires as OC will most likely (im assuming) be more of an assistant than a guy that really controls the whole offense.

Keldar
01-21-2006, 11:04 AM
Bates....that would be a late/early Christmas gift for sure. He is extremely well liked by players, while running an effective defense.

The other guy....I think we can do better. Unless he is a Kubiak protege, it definitely would not follow suit of hiring quality coordinators such as Bates, Brown, Marciano, etc.

Grid
01-21-2006, 11:29 AM
http://www.packers.com/team/coaches/bates_jim/

Bates really would be the perfect selection. I hope he takes the job. Look at that resume. Not only has he had top 10 defenses every season as a DC.. he is a member of "The Belichick Club".. one of those sought after coaches that has served under Belichick at some point in his career hehehe.

Jack Bauer
01-21-2006, 11:32 AM
Less than stoked on Brian Pariani. Syracuse was awful last year offensively and they operated just like Capers and his staff did by forcing a system on players instead of building a system around their talents.

http://www.uhnd.com/news.php?subaction=showfull&id=1129872477&archive=&start_from=&ucat=1

The West Coast offense often has a transition period before the players get a true sense of the offense. Here is a slightly less biased bio on Brian Pariani:

Brian Pariani Bio (http://www.suathletics.com/Sports/Football/2005/brianparianibio.asp)

He is well-respected and has 3 Super Bowl rings just like Kubiak. Here is a quote from Shannon Sharpe from the bio:

It was great for me to work with him. When he got there I was already a three-time Pro Bowler and an all-pro tight end, but I learned a lot from him, such as how to watch film and what to look for. Even after I went to Baltimore we still had conversations a few times a month, so that shows you what type of friendship we have that still goes way beyond football.”

bigTEXan8
01-21-2006, 11:49 AM
I like the sound of Bates. They ranked 7th in total yards per game (293.1), 14th in completion %, all better than us. He wasn't too good against the run, but all of GB final defensive stats were a heck of a lot better than ours. Like that was hard to do. It almost seems certain then that we'll switch to the 4-3 if we get Jim Bates. I dont' know too much about the guy from Syracuse though.

Porky
01-21-2006, 12:17 PM
Bates would be an excellent hire. I would also be happy with Jerry Gray, but maybe even more so about Bates.

As to Pariani, I am not familiar with him. Maybe he isn't coming as OC? Could be an assistant. Or if he does come as OC, I think Kubiak will most certainly be the one who sets the tone for the offense. Look at Capers/Palmer. Palmer may have been calling the plays, but it was Capers philosphy that was implemented. I also feel better knowing that Shannon Sharpe thinks highly of him. Let's give the guy a shot before we start the "Fire Pariani" posts. :yahoo:

aj.
01-21-2006, 12:24 PM
I've had my eye on Bates since Miami and he was one of the top three on my list for the DC job along with Gray and Marinelli.

Bates is in high demand and I've had my fingers crossed ever since some of the head coaching slots have begun to fill. I'm worried about Detroit since that would be home for him. But - like in Jerry McGuire (hate it) - show him the money!

beerlover
01-21-2006, 12:30 PM
I've had my eye on Bates since Miami and he was one of the top three on my list for the DC job along with Gray and Marinelli.

Bates is in high demand and I've had my fingers crossed ever since some of the head coaching slots have begun to fill.

could it be that the Texans are able to turn this train wreck around over night? and if so is this a direct reflection on Capers and his coaching staff last season?

edo783
01-21-2006, 12:35 PM
Bates is a great hire if true. He took GBs defense that was very bad and talent limited (sound familiar) and turned it inot a pretty solid group in short time. Bodes well I would think.

edo783
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
could it be that the Texans are able to turn this train wreck around over night? and if so is this a direct reflection on Capers and his coaching staff last season?

Possibly and very MUCH yes. I would be hard pressed to find a more disfunctional and incompetent group of coaches ever in the NFL.

ArlingtonTexan
01-21-2006, 12:37 PM
could it be that the Texans are able to turn this train wreck around over night? and if so is this a direct reflection on Capers and his coaching staff last season?

Bates turned around a packers defense that had been pretty bad for a few years in one year. Did not look like they had massive player turnover either. Miami had been a good defense during his time there also.

nunusguy
01-21-2006, 12:43 PM
I don't know anything about Bates, but the opinions in this thread from those who know something about him are unanimous on the idea of hiring him, so that sounds real good to me !
My only comment would be is that there is apparently an going and continuous conversation between the Texans and Kubiak and in this
situation with the Packers DC prospect there is almost surely a 3 way conversation. And I appreciate the Texans agressiveness in what is a very competitive market for coaches, but hope we don't get into hot water with the league in our dealings with Kubiak while his current team is in playoff mode.

Grid
01-21-2006, 12:45 PM
Im not sure on how it all works.. but wouldnt denver have to file a complaint or something?

ThaShark316
01-21-2006, 12:54 PM
Bates sounds damn good...hopefully that happens. OC though...well, since Kubiak will be calling the plays, they could get me to be the OC, doesn't matter. (We'd win Super Bowls if I was OC :drool: )

Mr. White
01-21-2006, 12:55 PM
As I understand it, someone from the Texans organization would have to make a public comment about Kubiak being the coach before Denver could file a complaint for tampering. Seems like they're wishing the best for him, though.

Bubbajwp
01-21-2006, 12:56 PM
Finally something new to discuss.:yahoo:

Grid
01-21-2006, 12:57 PM
I doubt Denver would file a complain.. Shanahan wants Kubiak to succeed.

Marcus
01-21-2006, 02:36 PM
could it be that the Texans are able to turn this train wreck around over night? and if so is this a direct reflection on Capers and his coaching staff last season?

And if it's NOT "turned around over night" what is that a reflection of? Just curious.

Lucky
01-21-2006, 02:46 PM
If you go back and look at what Bates did in Miami, the Dolphins were able to have success with lighter, quicker DEs like Taylor, Armstrong, & Ogunleye. He also got production out of Greenwood. And I believe the Dolphins usually played Manning & the Colts tough during Bates time in Miami. Lots of pluses there.

As far as "forcing a system on players" at the college level, I think they have to considering the fluidity of the rosters. Syracuse really hasn't had the chance to recruit players to their system. A talent like a Vince Young may cause a coach to junk an offense, but it's usually the teams that have a good system in place that have success year in, year out. I think Kubiak will install his system, as well. Just because a coach runs his system, doesn't mean it must be as constricting as the Texans have had the past 4 seasons.

TexanSam
01-21-2006, 05:02 PM
It doesn't say what position Pariani would have if he came to Houston though. I don't know if he would become the OC. He coached tight ends before, maybe he'll coach them again? Maybe some other position?

jayj0225
01-21-2006, 05:57 PM
This was a quote from Kubes about Pariani maybe he will be the OC.

?Brian has been an integral part of what we have done on offense for 10 years,? said Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak. ?He one of the hardest working coaches I have ever worked with. He understands the game and how to teach it. It will be hard for us to lose him. He is a better person than he is a coach. One of his biggest strengths is dealing with people and teaching. I always thought he had the capability to be a coordinator in the NFL. This was an opportunity he really wanted.?

Wolf
01-21-2006, 06:02 PM
This was a quote from Kubes about Pariani maybe he will be the OC.

?Brian has been an integral part of what we have done on offense for 10 years,? said Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak. ?He one of the hardest working coaches I have ever worked with. He understands the game and how to teach it. It will be hard for us to lose him. He is a better person than he is a coach. One of his biggest strengths is dealing with people and teaching. I always thought he had the capability to be a coordinator in the NFL. This was an opportunity he really wanted.?

sounds about the exact opposite from Pendry..

:yahoo:

Wolf
01-21-2006, 06:09 PM
As for the other former Texans coaches, Dom Capers interviewed with the Bills on Friday to fill their head coaching vacancy. Vic Fangio interviewed with the Packers for their defensive coordinator position on Thursday. Speculation also suggests that fired offensive coordinator Chris Palmer might garner some interest in reuniting with Bill Parcells in Dallas.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/

Fangio in GB :heh:

anuary 21, 2006
Who Sticks on Kubiak's Staff?
Capers Interviews w/ Bills

With the Texans' probable head coaching hire of Gary Kubiak on hold until the Broncos' season ends, the idle speculation now turns to the men Kubiak will select to fill his coaching staff. The speculation suggests that of the Texans' prior staff, only a couple guys, if any, will be retained.

Headlining that list of possible returnees is likely to be wide receivers coach Kippy Brown, who interviewed for the Texans head coaching position two weeks ago. Brown's resume includes time spent as the Dolphins offensive coordinator under Jimmy Johnson and head coaching experience in the now-defunct XFL.

Brown, however, doesn't appear to be the most likely candidate to become Kubiak's new offensive coordinator. Rumor suggests that current Broncos offensive line coach Rick Dennison will be offered that opportunity. If that is the case, it will likely mean that Brown remains the receivers coach, but he might also be considered as the team's next running backs coach as well.

Another of the Texans' head coaching candidates may join Kubiak's staff as well. Jerry Gray, apparently out as the Bills defensive coordinator, has not been asked to interview in Buffalo for their now-vacant head coaching position. Gray, a one-time Oiler and former Longhorn, may welcome a return to Texas as Kubiak's defensive coordinator.

Special teams coordinator Joe Marciano and defensive backs coach Jon Hoke are the next two members of the outgoing staff that are possibilities to remain once Kubiak arrives. Marciano's resume include helping a rookie fourth rounder, Jerome Mathis, earn both Pro Bowl and All-Pro designations this season. Hoke, who has been rumored for a number of college jobs in recent years, helped cornerback Dunta Robinson garner some defensive rookie of the year consideration in 2004

Hardcore Texan
01-21-2006, 06:50 PM
I didn't know too much about either one of these guys, but the more I hear about Bates the more I like. I was hoping for J Gray, but Bates sounds promising. I still think OC is a big question mark, first I heard tons of names being thrown around. So if Kubiak is big on Pariana then maybe he knows something we don't, and he has the endorsment of Shanon Sharpe, could be just crazy enough to work, :) Hope Coach Joe is really coming back and Hoke too. I can't wait until this is more concrete, sorry if that means Denver has to lose.

:texflag:

keyfro
01-21-2006, 06:56 PM
bates would be a great pick up...we're gonna need a Defensive coordinator who can just take control of the defense like greg williams at washington...so i think the d. coord. job is up in the air between jerry grey and jim bates...bates has more experince but grey would be great too...as far as the offensive coordinator i've heard he is probably bringing over denver's offensive line coach to be the o. coordinator

Grid
01-21-2006, 10:42 PM
Ya know who I wonder about?

Mooch.

He got a raw deal in Detroit. Im surprised that he has apparently had NO interest this offseason. Makes me wonder if we have him on our staff already :P. But im suspicious of all the coaches that have fallen off the radar.

Scooter
01-22-2006, 07:16 AM
Fangio in GB :heh:

that's just mean, i wouldnt wish fangio on anyone:thud:

cap1
01-22-2006, 07:43 AM
Ya know who I wonder about?

Mooch.

He got a raw deal in Detroit. Im surprised that he has apparently had NO interest this offseason. Makes me wonder if we have him on our staff already :P. But im suspicious of all the coaches that have fallen off the radar.


Grid the only thing is, I wouldn't want to many people on the staff that just had previous Head Coaching experience. Especially with a brand new Head Coach with zero Head coaching expiernce.

Grid
01-22-2006, 08:37 AM
yah Mooch is gonna be an OC or HC somewhere. I just wonder if he is gonna be OC here. I doubt it but ya never know.. i just wonder why there hasnt been a peep about him. Maybe he isnt looking for a job this season.

HoustonFan
01-22-2006, 09:38 AM
GO STEELERS!!!!! :yahoo: We need a coaching staff.:)

I wouldn't be mad if the Broncos ended up winning. Just means we've gotta wait about 2 more weeks. Patience is a virtue.

Erratic Assassin
01-22-2006, 10:05 AM
And if it's NOT "turned around over night" what is that a reflection of? Just curious.

Charlie Casserly's failure to build a decent team in a soon to be 5-year period.

justtxyank
01-22-2006, 10:10 AM
yah Mooch is gonna be an OC or HC somewhere. I just wonder if he is gonna be OC here. I doubt it but ya never know.. i just wonder why there hasnt been a peep about him. Maybe he isnt looking for a job this season.

I think he has publicly said he wants to take this season off.

Grid
01-22-2006, 10:11 AM
that would explain it then :).. thanks for the info.

swisher
01-22-2006, 11:05 AM
For the visual learners....

Jim Bates
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/jan05/jb125.jpg


Brian Pariani
http://www.suathletics.com/images/gen/2005%5C3%5C10%5C/ParianiBrian2005web.jpg

Kaiser Toro
01-22-2006, 11:16 AM
yah Mooch is gonna be an OC or HC somewhere. I just wonder if he is gonna be OC here. I doubt it but ya never know.. i just wonder why there hasnt been a peep about him. Maybe he isnt looking for a job this season.

My take, and it is completely unfounded, is that he will only go to the job that is right for he and his family from a work life balance standpoint. If he does not find the ideal job you can bet he will step outside of coaching for a awhile and into color commentary.

Coach C.
01-22-2006, 11:22 AM
yeah i agree with ya Kaiser. I look for him to sit this year out regardless, and see him on whatever color commentary job he wants. The guy's settlement from the Lions was nice so he should be fine.

Grid
01-22-2006, 11:34 AM
My take, and it is completely unfounded, is that he will only go to the job that is right for he and his family from a work life balance standpoint. If he does not find the ideal job you can bet he will step outside of coaching for a awhile and into color commentary.

I wouldnt blame him after the fiasco in Detroit.

PapaL
01-22-2006, 11:42 AM
For the visual learners....

Jim Bates
http://graphics.jsonline.com/graphics/packer/img/news/jan05/jb125.jpg


Brian Pariani
http://www.suathletics.com/images/gen/2005%5C3%5C10%5C/ParianiBrian2005web.jpg

Very helpful, thanks.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 12:11 PM
If we could add another coach, I would like add Jim Zorn, the SEA QB coach. What he's done with Hassleback is awesome. Make him the OC and to work directly with Carr. I think the combination of Zorn and Kubiak would be darn sweet.

PapaL
01-22-2006, 02:48 PM
If we could add another coach, I would like add Jim Zorn, the SEA QB coach. What he's done with Hassleback is awesome. Make him the OC and to work directly with Carr. I think the combination of Zorn and Kubiak would be darn sweet.

Is this because of the ESPN segment of Zorn working with Hasselbeck? The one that aired before you posted?:superman:

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 02:53 PM
Is this because of the ESPN segment of Zorn working with Hasselbeck? The one that aired before you posted?:superman:

Yeah...but I knew he was a good QB coach before. I remember people wanting to ride Hasslebeck out of Sea-town back when Dilfer first went there. What Zorn has does with Hasslebeck is pretty remarkable. JMO>

travfrancis
01-22-2006, 03:28 PM
we dont need another person working with our qb, that person will be kubiak

Texans Pride
01-22-2006, 08:31 PM
Has anyone heard more on Bates situation???

I'M READY FOR SOME HIRING!

Jack Bauer
01-22-2006, 08:32 PM
Has anyone heard more on Bates situation???

I'M READY FOR SOME HIRING!

I haven't, but I'm with you! I am ready for more solid information instead of all the speculation! :yahoo:

TexanBacker93
01-22-2006, 11:14 PM
I'm all for Bates as DC and I would like to see Mike Sherman come in as the OC. He and Kubiak have coached together and are friends. He's had success at multiple level in the pros and was fired because the new GM wanted his own guy. Obviously the 2 have worked together and had success together. I think with those 3 coming in along with 4 picks in the first 3 rounds this team could make some great headway.

Texian
01-23-2006, 12:01 AM
Bates turned around a packers defense that had been pretty bad for a few years in one year. Did not look like they had massive player turnover either. Miami had been a good defense during his time there also.
Contraire their AT...GB had a very good defense before Bates, Ed Donatell, Ed ended up being a scape goat for McNabb completing a 4th and 20 that cost GB the NFC chamionship game. Actually the GB defense has declined under Bates. Under Donatell GB was one of the leagues best and led the league in turnovers.

Texian
01-23-2006, 12:07 AM
Lots of speculation, don't count out Dennison. Parini could join Gary and Rick.
All disicples of Alex Gibbs and zone blocking who is now with Atlanta. Atlanta was #1 rushing team by 9 yds over Denver.

HoustonFrog
01-23-2006, 09:26 AM
Here is the article. I like it if we can get the O-line coach as the O-coordinator. That would be huge because we know we would have their run blocking scheme and that means we would get guys that could fit the system and guys that will be taught by the man.

http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3604912.html

TEXANS84
01-23-2006, 10:26 AM
Has anyone heard more on Bates situation???

I'M READY FOR SOME HIRING!

Rams are pursuing him heavily as well. Supposedly opening bids are around 1 million dollars.

Sportsfan
01-23-2006, 10:29 AM
Rams are pursuing him heavily as well. Supposedly opening bids are around 1 million dollars.


If its about the $$, the Texans will get him i bet, McNair isn't affraid to throw some coin around.

Porky
01-23-2006, 10:31 AM
From the article:
If Dennison can't get out of his contract, a Broncos official said not to rule out former Denver offensive line coach Alex Gibbs, who works as a consultant with Atlanta.

That would be incredible. Alex Gibbs is one of the best line coaches ever. I would be totally psyched. Dennison I know less about, but would seem to be a great second choice, and I would be pretty pumped about him as well. :redtowel:

texan279
01-23-2006, 10:33 AM
Rams are pursuing him heavily as well. Supposedly opening bids are around 1 million dollars.

from KFFL
Rams | Bates may be too expensive
Mon, 23 Jan 2006 06:15:14 -0800

Jim Thomas, of the St. Louis Post-Dispatch, reports it is looking more and more like former Green Bay Packers defensive coordinator Jim Bates will not be the next defensive coordinator for the St. Louis Rams, despite a contract offer in excess of $1 million a year from the team. After being unable to strike a deal despite what they feel is a lucrative offer, the Rams may back off trying to hire Bates.

TEXANS84
01-23-2006, 10:36 AM
Good find 279.

I'm sure the no state income tax helps as well on the Texans contract talks.

Errant Hothy
01-23-2006, 10:41 AM
A different opinion on Bates as a DC:

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=120774

I think Bates will be an average DC, I'd have preferd Grey/Gray. I have concerens over Bates, mainly that he really has never thrown out a stellar D and that the rumors are he wants to be a HC, badly; so we may be searching for another DC soon if we hire Bates.

justtxyank
01-23-2006, 10:54 AM
Those are interesting comments

Jack Bauer
01-23-2006, 11:34 AM
A different opinion on Bates as a DC:

http://www.finheaven.com/boardvb2/showthread.php?t=120774

I think Bates will be an average DC, I'd have preferd Grey/Gray. I have concerens over Bates, mainly that he really has never thrown out a stellar D and that the rumors are he wants to be a HC, badly; so we may be searching for another DC soon if we hire Bates.

Great. More "Message Board GMs". :rolleyes: I thought the link was to someone who actually knew what they were talking about.

Grid
01-23-2006, 11:37 AM
results speak louder than fans on a messageboard who just got snubbed.

Bates results as a DC are undeniable. You can say "well look at how much we paid to bring in playmakers for him".. but Bates' success wasnt a 2 or 3 year thing.. he has had dominant defenses for the entirety of his career as a DC. Besides..they said that they allocated half of their cap towards defense.. well duh.. its half of your team.

Glacier
01-23-2006, 11:43 AM
could it be that the Texans are able to turn this train wreck around over night? and if so is this a direct reflection on Capers and his coaching staff last season?

I believe so. With solid leadership in place that has a proven habit of being a winner, and Bates hired on on Defense, this team immediately is improved with out making a single move on the roster.

Good coaches enable players to become good players. Bad coaches ruin good players. I personally believe that the Texans have MUCH better talent than they are given credit for.

justtxyank
01-23-2006, 11:46 AM
The only thing I found interesting on that board was the comments about his blitz schemes. As we've seen the past few years, a good blitz is important to rattle qbs.

Lucky
01-23-2006, 11:47 AM
...Actually the GB defense has declined under Bates.
In Bates only season as Packers DC, Green Bay rose from 25th to 7th in total defense.

Grid
01-23-2006, 11:48 AM
I cant look up the stats right now.. but im pretty sure that Bates' defenses have been in the top 5 in sacks for a few of the years that he was the DC. He knows how to pressure the QB.

SnakeOilTanker
01-23-2006, 06:01 PM
plus he isnt Vic Fangio:drool: :drool: :drool:

FILO_girl
01-23-2006, 07:58 PM
Still no word on Bates huh. Really hoping that since Kubiak is on board now, the hiring of his staff should be forthcoming rather quickly. Like, by the end of this week....I hope.

Is it normal to have this many staffing changes in the off season? Seems like half the NFL teams ran off their coaches and are drafting new blood. Retreads are everywhere, and trying to find work wherever they can find it. :spy:

TexanSam
01-24-2006, 08:21 PM
So we were talking about this a little bit a few days ago. There's still a coordinators thread up, but in the Chronicle John McClain wrote this:

Jim Bates will not be the defensive coordinator, and odds are against Kubiak succeeding in his plan to get Broncos offensive line coach Rick Dennison out of his contract.

I wish McClain would at least write "sources say" that Bates won't be coming here, but he doesn't. I tend to just forget about everything McClain writes now so I don't know if this article has any merit. I can see his point about Dennison because if Shananan wants him to stay he has no choice, but he doesn't support his Bates statement. Get with it McClain!

outofhnd
01-24-2006, 08:24 PM
I would rather have Jerry Gray over Jim Bates and I think with him already interviewing for the head coaching job he has an idea of what he wants to do with our Defense.. I say Hire Gray...

TexanSam
01-24-2006, 08:26 PM
I would rather have Jerry Gray over Jim Bates and I think with him already interviewing for the head coaching job he has an idea of what he wants to do with our Defense.. I say Hire Gray...

I have no problem if we hire Gray. Either one would be fine by me. But why does McClain write that but doesn't support it? He just throws it out there. Maybe I'm just a McClain basher (like a lot of us) and just want to find something to criticize, but that sentence sounds fishy.

Hardcore Texan
01-24-2006, 08:28 PM
I am fine with Gray and Bates for that matter. Both are quality coordinators, from what I have learned of them. I had hear that Shanahan would let Kubiak take a couple of assistants with him.

Either way, I suspect this will all be sorted out in the next couple of days.

:redtowel:

barzilla
01-24-2006, 09:27 PM
Over the years Kubiak has built his own set of contacts and he probably wants to call on them with the coaching positions. It's possible that Bates, Gray, and he haven't traveled in the same circles. We saw what happened when the HC and coordinator didn't mesh. Kubiak may not be a defensive mind, but he probably has a vision for the style of defense he wants to run. It could be that Gray and Bates don't run it. Now, that I've been throwing a bunch of unsubtianted points out there can I work for the Chronicle? :yahoo: