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michaelm
01-19-2006, 03:44 PM
Hi... I am not usually much of a thread starter, but I wanted to address an issue which has been crystalizing in my mind.

I have been following many, many threads pertaining to the subject of David Carr. At the beginning, I didn't have a clear opinion, because my work takes me out of town frequently and I don't have the opportuniy to see and evaluate many games (many of which are cited in evaluating the play of DC).
As time wore on, however, I found that my opinion did crystalize, in part due to reading posts on this board, and in part applying what I consider to be common sense.
I thought about a job I had a few years back as a car stereo installer. I was pretty good at it, and had a huge passion for it. Over time, due to conditions in my work place, I became frustrated with the job and eventually quit.
I had done a good enough job to be promoted to manager and overlooked two stores. Things were shaky around me and I found myself being asked to correct other imployees mistakes. I was pulled away from my jobs to do sales to customers because my boss was from another country and had a limited capacity to endear himself to them (mostly language barrier stuff).
Eventually, I was pressured to be dishonest with the customers in an effort to improve sales. I became completely disheartened with what had once been an almost true love. I quit that job, because try as I might, I just couldn't be good at it it that capacity.

With this experience in mind, I looked at the DC situation and the examples that many of you made of his pouting, or lashing out at teamates and other negative (alleged) behavior.
It is not difficult at all to imagine the frustration that DC has gone through in his short time here. I won't bother listing specifics because we all know them. The point is, if I could find myself in such a negative frame of mind over my job (where I wasn't being pounded on a weekly basis), then I can imagine how DC may have gotten to a point where he wasn't showing his best.
I can imagine how I would react in this situation... not as gracefully as DC for sure. Compound that by the realization that it was most likely a miserably failed system that was causing such punishment to be taken.
I am quite sure that the whole offensive unit had lost faith in the system. If you go out there week after week, getting chased and pounded because of a flawed system, I'm sure anyone would show less than their best.
IMO, DC has been pretty good about it overall. I believe that he can still succeed in the league. I am ashamed for some of the personal attacks I have seen on DC.

I have seen many of the same people that criticize DC say that they will not continue to be Texan fans if VY is not drafted. At first I hated the idea that fans could even think that way. I am a 7th generation Houstonian and could never think of rooting for a team from another city. Maybe some of you aren't natives, I don't know.
I do know one thing, I hated the thought of you and fans like you.
You see, Houston may not be the prettiest place in the country or even the state for that matter... with its flat non-descript prarie, zillion strip centers, and occasional Cowgirl fan it can be pretty ugly sometimes... but it is home and I root for the home team.
As I say, I hated the thought of you... but that changed.

Now, I believe that you are good for us real fans.
The way the lion is good for the antelope heard or the forest fire is good for the growth of new forests...
So I say go... once the dead wood is stripped away, the strong will survive...
It will be that much sweeter for those that stayed through these hard times.
We will be better without you.
We will be stronger.

rockabilly
01-19-2006, 03:51 PM
RIGHT ON! I dont even live in Houston. In fact, I hate the city of Houston. But I looooooove my Texans.

Cjeremy635
01-19-2006, 03:53 PM
Nice post man..way to put it all out there. I especially liked the ending. Thanks for your input and I second it...all except the stereo job. (I have never installed a radio)

TheOgre
01-19-2006, 03:56 PM
RIGHT ON! I dont even live in Houston. In fact, I hate the city of Houston. But I looooooove my Texans.

I found that to be true of a lot of Austinites. If you hate Dallas too, I can understand it. But if you think Dallas is the bomb and hate Houston, I am left scratching my head.

Kaiser Toro
01-19-2006, 04:03 PM
I found that to be true of a lot of Austinites. If you hate Dallas too, I can understand it. But if you think Dallas is the bomb and hate Houston, I am left scratching my head.

I hate Dallas. Houston is to big and I have lived in NY, Chicago and LA. But I like the people.

As far as the thread I could care less about DC's mental state as this is the profession he chose and he probaly has no problem cashing the checks. All I care about is wins and his contract is not helping us to date.

Caphorn
01-19-2006, 04:10 PM
Just what this place needed. Another fairweather/diehard fan rant full of analogies THAT DON'T APPLY TO THE NFL. You can love the city and not give a rats *** about its sports teams.

Look some people just haven't attached themselves to the franchise. It's a business and its success has been very limited to date. Whether its drafting VY or winning (I think winnning), this franchise will need to increase its fanbase to be greatly succesfull and continue to put butts in the seats and generate player/fan/coach/nationwide attention.

Sportsfan
01-19-2006, 04:17 PM
Carr, Bush, Davis, Johnson, Mathis + Kubiak = #1 Offense

I hope your right on that, Houston-hater.

TreWardTxn
01-19-2006, 04:21 PM
I found that to be true of a lot of Austinites. If you hate Dallas too, I can understand it. But if you think Dallas is the bomb and hate Houston, I am left scratching my head.

That was a nice emotional appeal to keep DC, but I think if you look at it, and how things turned out for you personally, you'll see what the Texans should really do. Let's say Carr did lose faith, that's understandable, but this permits that the players on that team also lost faith in their QB's ability to get the job done (even for reasons that were not his "fault). What happens if Carr doesn't get it done next year, or the next (for anyone to say he will get it done is just as ridiculous for anyone to say he won't). But if it happens in a new system, it is inevitable that the same faith and belief will be lost again, by everybody, from the fans to the coaches.
I think you said it yourself, the only thing for you do to was remove yourself from that negative situation; that's how Plummer and many other QBs have been reformed. Remember, it clicked for Drew Brees last year, and yeah, he's got Antonio Gates and LT (Domanick Davis is similar, but slightly less talented), but he didn't have an Andre Johnson...what's Carr's holdup

GP
01-19-2006, 04:33 PM
All in all it was a good post, IMO.

I just don't care much for the "real fan vs. not real fan" stuff.

I want to trade the pick and get the 'Brick, but I also understand that we must follow a team that's going to make decisions we might not like.

I mostly think the "I'm done if they don't draft Vince Young" crowd is so overly passionate about winning RIGHT NOW that they think a guy will repeat his Rose Bowl performance each week in the NFL, and for us!

Let fans be guilty of pulling the trigger too soon. Soon enough, they'll come around and see that this team is worth following even in bad times.

I learned long ago that fans are fans. They fade in and fade out, it's no different than church attendance. Just because you haven't been to church in a few weeks doesn't mean you're "not a real fan of Jesus." I think we get caught up in ultimatums in the sports world, and I just wish the whole "real fan vs. not real fan" argument would go away.

Texans_Chick
01-19-2006, 04:42 PM
Now, I believe that you are good for us real fans.
The way the lion is good for the antelope heard or the forest fire is good for the growth of new forests...
So I say go... once the dead wood is stripped away, the strong will survive...
It will be that much sweeter for those that stayed through these hard times.
We will be better without you.
We will be stronger.


As a suggestion, maybe this diatribe belongs here:Fairweathered Fans link (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=17555)

You know, as another verse.

Personally, I think the boycotter thing is overblown, and Ws solve just about everything eventually, but that being said, whatever the Texans do, I hope it ends up being something that the Texans can feel good about selling to the fans. As much as I have been amazed at some of the free seats I sat in this year (because people were giving me their tickets left and right), I'd rather have a stadium full of screaming fans and me staying in my regular paid for tickets.

I remember at the end of the Chiefs game this year being stunned because from the seats right behind the visitors bench, I could hear a friend of mine in the first row of the Bullpen, hit the padding in front of the row making noise. Wham wham wham.....It was that quiet in a stadium that holds over 70,000 in good times.

Now I could feel proud of myself for staying until the bitter end with nobody sitting within 8 rows of me and pat myself on the back for being a "real fan", or I can accept the fact that all fans have different amounts of fandom, and that it sure would be great if the Texans could restore some good will with the fans, whatever the best way of doing that is.

Yeah, I know what you are saying, but I betcha all them bandwagon Astros fans had a fun time on that ride to the worldseries.

Double Barrel
01-19-2006, 06:19 PM
Well, it's certainly good to get these things off your chest. Just make sure you're wearing fire-proof underoos, though, because it's a tough crowd around here.

Personally, I've seen a little of both good and bad in David Carr the past four seasons. He seems to have the ability to show flashes of momentary greatness, but he also reveals a side of him that instills a sense of panic.

Fortunately, we are getting an offensive minded HC in Kubiak that knows how to peek inside a QB's head. I feel confident in whatever our new HC decides, because he's the expert on the subject. We are merely casual observers....often with somewhat to little idea about these things. ;)

Don't let the fairweather fans steal your joy, though. Every team and sport has them, and it is part of the package. We know in our hearts who has stayed until 0:00 is on the clock of losing games, and we have nothing to prove to anyone. Let people have their fun, because that's the nature of the bandwagon. No use in fighting what is. :howdy:

jdog
01-19-2006, 06:34 PM
I am not from Houston. I am a Houston fan because I thought it would be cool to be a fan of a team from the beginning and forever. It's all about sticking with your team through it all for me. It makes the wins that much sweeter.

When you have the worst record in the NFL you are going to lose "fans". I agree with you. Let them all leave. We are better off without them. They will all be back when the Texans win the Super Bowl someday.

As for David Carr, I think he is a great quarterback and a great leader. I would have quit after sack one hundred and fifty, but he is stronger for sticking it out. When the protection problems are corrected he will be whistling Mozart while he makes his reads.

I hope the majority of Texans fans haven't given up on him because I feel sorry for Reggie Bush or Vince Young or any other player we draft if that is how we are going to be. We are the 12th player on the team, and I don't want to be weak.

Go Texans!

Runner
01-19-2006, 08:22 PM
... Ws solve just about everything eventually...


"just about"??????????????? :)

Tulip
01-19-2006, 08:36 PM
I used to be more of the "real fan" mindset.

But let's face it - there's a big difference between an 4-year old expansion team trying to build a fanbase and a decades-old franchise that couldn't sell out games during a 7 straight years of playoff appearances.

All fans aren't going to be born out of the mere fact that a team plays in their home state. The Texans actually have to work to break into markets, including their own back yard.

The Texans are just not delivering a valuable product. I don't enjoy watching the Texans lose fans instead of gaining them over time. But I can't begrudge people for giving up. This isn't the Packers on a down year. This team has yet to take hold.

michaelm
01-19-2006, 08:49 PM
Just what this place needed. Another fairweather/diehard fan rant full of analogies THAT DON'T APPLY TO THE NFL. You can love the city and not give a rats *** about its sports teams.

Look some people just haven't attached themselves to the franchise. It's a business and its success has been very limited to date. Whether its drafting VY or winning (I think winnning), this franchise will need to increase its fanbase to be greatly succesfull and continue to put butts in the seats and generate player/fan/coach/nationwide attention.


I can appreciate your point of view, but I guess this is where you and I differ.
I am certainly cognizant enough to see that at it's root, the team is a business.
But on the other hand, it's quite obvious that fans get personally attatched to their teams, otherwise we wouldn't have .001% of the threads that we have on this MB. I don't know if you really personally get attached to a sports team, but I for one do. I'm sure that there are many that represent both points of view on the subject.
I disagree with your saying that the analogies don't apply to the NFL. I guess if you feel like the team is a business and/or don't develope the emotional attatchment that many fans do, you just don't get the connection.

Yes, you can love a city and not give a rats *** about it's sports teams, however the fact that we are all here having discussions like these that sometimes lead to these passionate disagreements indicates that the majority of people here are in fact emotionally attatched fans.
It is just in my personal upbringing to love and support the teams that reside in and represent my home town.
Sure, I'm not as attatched to the Texans (yet) as much as I was the Oilers back when I was 10 years old and collected every sports section of both the Chronicle and the Post.
I'm not comparing sports affiliation with marriage (per se) when I say that it has similarities to having a second wife (husband). Sure I love the second one, but it may take time to get to the level of relationship that I had with the prior one, especially since the ***** broke my heart!

Again, I apprectiate your point of view, but if you are one of the fans who is considering changing teams we are just too different to see eye to eye on this subject. No offense.
And I mean no offense either when I say that I have no personal use for fans that would just change teams like that.
The fact that they may leave doesn't make me sad, but the thought that they are those types of fans makes me a little sad... maybe a little for myself, and maybe a little for them.
Sorry if that's a second rant... feel free to ignore my future posts...


p.s. if it was you, thanks for the negative rep. points... lol
I only have three votes and never even knew they existed until a few days ago...

Hardcore Texan
01-19-2006, 10:07 PM
Nice Post.

Just think how the Cincinati fans must feel this year after all the long seasons that were unsucessful. I am sure all those diehard fans that never left them are loving it. :redtowel:

Texian
01-19-2006, 10:37 PM
Many interesting points of view.....just another thought, if the Texans do pass on VY and select Reggie I imagine the line to buy tickets to see Reggie would be longer than the line of boycotters for not picking Vince.

jdog
01-20-2006, 01:55 PM
Many interesting points of view.....just another thought, if the Texans do pass on VY and select Reggie I imagine the line to buy tickets to see Reggie would be longer than the line of boycotters for not picking Vince.

I think the Vince Young thing must be a total homer thing because it makes no other sense. He is talented. He's not Michael Vick, and even if he was he is not what the Texans need. The Texans already have a quarterback. Vince would be able to scramble better when the protection failed. Sounds like a great plan for the future.

Bush is great. We don't need a running back either, but Bush could be used in a lot of ways. If we draft him it would add another weapon that we might not be able to fully utilize like Carr and Johnson.

It seems to me that the smart thing to do is trade down and fix the problems.

Double Barrel
01-20-2006, 02:55 PM
I think the Vince Young thing must be a total homer thing because it makes no other sense.

Without a doubt, IMO. Just watching/listening to the national media reveals that it's just our regional media that is obsessed with the Texans taking Young. On a national level, everyone is pretty unanimous that we should take Bush.

Heck, even talking with people from other states in my day-to-day business activities indicates that most people's perception outside of this area is that we should take Bush. Most regular football fans I've talked to think Leinart is the better QB pick right now. Right or wrong, the Young obsession is definitely a Houston/Texas phenomenon.

jerek
01-20-2006, 03:03 PM
Without a doubt, IMO. Just watching/listening to the national media reveals that it's just our regional media that is obsessed with the Texans taking Young. On a national level, everyone is pretty unanimous that we should take Bush.

Heck, even talking with people from other states in my day-to-day business activities indicates that most people's perception outside of this area is that we should take Bush. Most regular football fans I've talked to think Leinart is the better QB pick right now. Right or wrong, the Young obsession is definitely a Houston/Texas phenomenon.

Agreed, and that is true in my experience right now. I don't know that people outside of this state are more qualified, but it makes you wonder about being on the outside looking in and what a little thing called perspective can do for you.

Meloy
01-20-2006, 03:10 PM
Emotion seems to be the key word here and on a lot of the threads I've read. Aren't most of our opinions based on our feelings rather than facts? We disagree with a play called, trade, draft pick, signing, etc. As Bush replied when asked about his lateral in the UT game, "If it had worked, it would have talked about as the greatest play.." To label someone fair weathered because that person's belief or opinion is not the same as yours is puzzling to me. I gave up on the 'stros the last 2 years not because of losses but how the team (in my opinion) were not playing to their capabilities. Yes, I "jumped back on" when the play improved (and surprisingly so did the win column.) I remember yelling so loud when the Oilers upset Patriots- I think it was the strike shortened season something like 30-28, that I awakened wife # 2. Now the Oilers are long gone and so are wives 2,3, and 4. My first four picks were not very good so I am a mite easier on Casserly than some of you. But my next pick better be Special, right Charlie? Wife # 2 said I should take her side even if she was wrong. Reminds me of some of the comments on the message board. Now, as long as I am entertained by whatever I am watching I am a fan for that day. Has little to do with wins, just effort.

If I am not entertained, I walk to the marina and light the fires on my 1,000 horsepower American Offshore 26 foot "cat" boat and do a little waving walking at 80mph. My free time is too short to not have fun.

mancunian
01-21-2006, 08:48 AM
RIGHT ON! I dont even live in Houston. In fact, I hate the city of Houston. But I looooooove my Texans.


I dont live in Houston, heck I dont even live in the States - I'm from England, yet I decided to support the Texans before they even played a snap in the NFL. As a Brit with no real emotional attachement I could have picked the Patriots or one of the other "glamour" teams. But I'm a Texans fan looking forward to next year with a new HC and a revistalised Carr.

Spoda
01-21-2006, 09:10 AM
i think things will change even with the losses next year...i have a hard time believing with an offensive minded coach if we are down in the 4th, the play calling won't be off tackle left...screen left ..fullback middle..punt...i think with kubes we are gonne let 'er rip and see what happens...go down fighting instead of trying not to lose by a certain amount of points....the fans will be back..thay always are

MorKnolle
01-21-2006, 09:33 AM
I dont live in Houston, heck I dont even live in the States - I'm from England, yet I decided to support the Texans before they even played a snap in the NFL. As a Brit with no real emotional attachement I could have picked the Patriots or one of the other "glamour" teams. But I'm a Texans fan looking forward to next year with a new HC and a revistalised Carr.

We appreciate your decision to support our team with so many better ones around. Here's to hoping that this offseason turns the team around and leads to an 8-8 record in 2006 and the playoffs in 2007.
:party:

zeplin
01-21-2006, 12:11 PM
I thought this thread was originally about why DC is unhappy or why he is not playing well in the current system. It seems like it has moved off that topic to "Who is a worthy fan or not" I am just glad we have a team to root for. I remember when Houston was texanless and it was not a pretty site.
I think that we should be less critical and more supportive to Mr Mcnair and his staff. They know that changes need to happen. Deal in solutions to the problem not the problem. Complaining just to complain is not going to fix anything.
I happen to agree with the original poster. Job performance is directly proportional to Job satisfaction.

mancunian
01-22-2006, 02:13 PM
[QUOTE=MorKnolle]We appreciate your decision to support our team with so many better ones around. Here's to hoping that this offseason turns the team around and leads to an 8-8 record in 2006 and the playoffs in 2007.
:party:[/QUOT


An 8 - 8 record would be great but I think its more likely to be 7 - 9 or 6 - 10.
I guess Kubiak (please let it be) will sort out the offence first and get an O line like the one in Denver.

I'm hoping Kubiak can do for the Texans what Cowher has done for the Steelers..... 14 years in charge 10 play off appearances and 6 AFC title games.
Not only that I think he'll get the best from Carr and heres to a career year for DC next year.