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View Full Version : What if VY went to Notre Dame?


chall8
01-18-2006, 12:24 PM
Of those who feel like we should take Vince, would your opinion still be as strong if he'd just led Notre Dame or Michigan or whoever to the national championship?

If your honest answer is yes, then you're basically saying that you feel we need a change a QB for the long term (which happens to be my opinion).

If your honest answer is no, then you're basically saying that you want him here because he's a Longhorn, or from Houston, which to me isn't a good enough reason alone to take a guy. It's icing on the cake, but shouldn't be the driving force behind the decision.

tulexan
01-18-2006, 12:30 PM
The answer is NO. People want Vince because he is Vince from Houston who played at UT. If QB was a big need of ours, then we would be discussing Vince v. Matt v. Reggie.

CenTexNative
01-18-2006, 12:34 PM
I don't think the Texans need Vince young. So my stance on this has never changed. We need offensive linemen defensive linemen that can put pressure on the opposing quarterback and a good linebacker and defensive back, preferrably a safety. But that's just me

wags
01-18-2006, 12:36 PM
What if VY went to Notre Dame?

Then we would have 1,000 "Nordegren has it" threads.

Dennis007
01-18-2006, 12:44 PM
Of those who feel like we should take Vince, would your opinion still be as strong if he'd just led Notre Dame or Michigan or whoever to the national championship?

If your honest answer is yes, then you're basically saying that you feel we need a change a QB for the long term (which happens to be my opinion).

If your honest answer is no, then you're basically saying that you want him here because he's a Longhorn, or from Houston, which to me isn't a good enough reason alone to take a guy. It's icing on the cake, but shouldn't be the driving force behind the decision.

I don't care if it was Pee Wee Herman Univ and he was from Pitchback, Idaho -After that display of talent, How can u not take him?!:superman:

Texans_Chick
01-18-2006, 12:47 PM
Of those who feel like we should take Vince, would your opinion still be as strong if he'd just led Notre Dame or Michigan or whoever to the national championship?

If your honest answer is yes, then you're basically saying that you feel we need a change a QB for the long term (which happens to be my opinion).

If your honest answer is no, then you're basically saying that you want him here because he's a Longhorn, or from Houston, which to me isn't a good enough reason alone to take a guy. It's icing on the cake, but shouldn't be the driving force behind the decision.


I think in the QB position, Carr needs a new start and so do we. Admittedly, I wouldn't be saying that if I didn't think that VY was a rare QB talent that is hard to compare to others that have come before him--an amazing package of size and skills. Some can claim that Kubiak with Bush is a new start, but if Carr keeps getting killed without throwing the ball outta bounds when he is in a position to do so, it is gonna get gnarly.

The hometown hero thing does complicate stuff for the Texans. You can try to ignore that, but the general public won't. Houston will be a tough place for Carr if the Texans keep losing. That might not be fair, but it is a reality.

Texans_Chick
01-18-2006, 12:49 PM
The answer is NO. People want Vince because he is Vince from Houston who played at UT. If QB was a big need of ours, then we would be discussing Vince v. Matt v. Reggie.

Matt is just a talented fungible pocket passer who gets nicked up. Nice QB, who would get killed in Houston. I never understood the Ligerheart facination.

swtbound07
01-18-2006, 01:27 PM
Matt is just a talented fungible pocket passer who gets nicked up. Nice QB, who would get killed in Houston. I never understood the Ligerheart facination.

completely agree. Matt would have no chance in houston, thats why he isnt in the discussion. Behind the o-line, you need a quarterback that is mobile. Period. David Carr gets killed routinely. Matt Leinart is David Carr V 2.0. Besides, Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart isnt a debate.....Young wins hands down. I personally wouldnt care if he went to eastern carolina university. Im not burnt orange, and i actually went to a school that hates most ut products......TEXAS STATE! but anyways.....Carr didnt get it done. Dominack Davis has had success. Carr needs to be replaced. Davis doesnt.

dtran04
01-18-2006, 01:30 PM
He would be on the bench behind Brady Quinn. LOL.....i kid i kid (who knows though?)

Kaiser Toro
01-18-2006, 01:30 PM
I think any QB that put up the numbers that VY has done, shown the improvement he has in his passing game and win the national championship in the fashion that UT did then yes he would still be discussed no matter where he went to school.

In fact if he went to ND he would probably have been already anointed as a saint. You do not have to look that far to see the ND hype maching going gaga over Brady Quinn. It certainly helps when their team has its own contract with NBC, still not sure how that is legal by NCAA standards.

7thsign
01-18-2006, 01:53 PM
If Vince went to Norte Dame more people would have known about him before this year and there would be no question about him being the first pick. :homer:

JDizzle
01-18-2006, 02:36 PM
Matt is just a talented fungible pocket passer who gets nicked up. Nice QB, who would get killed in Houston. I never understood the Ligerheart facination.

I won't argue that Leinart doesn't possess many physical attributes like Young does, but to say he's a "fungible pocket passer" is kind of silly. Where do most QB's throw the ball from, the goal posts? Is being a polished pocket QB such a bad thing? I've never seen the guy panic under pressure. He's smart, composed, and doesn't make many poor decisions from what I've seen over the past 3 years. He also managed 367yds 1TD/1INT against a top 10 pass defense in the Rose Bowl, while Young put up a whopping 267 0/0 against the 73rd ranked pass defense. That is why I prefer Leinart over Young.

cuppacoffee
01-18-2006, 04:15 PM
I won't argue that Leinart doesn't possess many physical attributes like Young does, but to say he's a "fungible pocket passer" is kind of silly. Where do most QB's throw the ball from, the goal posts? Is being a polished pocket QB such a bad thing? I've never seen the guy panic under pressure. He's smart, composed, and doesn't make many poor decisions from what I've seen over the past 3 years. He also managed 367yds 1TD/1INT against a top 10 pass defense in the Rose Bowl, while Young put up a whopping 267 0/0 against the 73rd ranked pass defense. That is why I prefer Leinart over Young.

JACK....JACK How dare you commit such heresy on this board. :)

And in anwer to the original question, dtran04 is correct, Young would have sat on the bench and watched Brady Quinn, a real QB. :yahoo:

txlonghorn14
01-18-2006, 06:08 PM
completely agree. Matt would have no chance in houston, thats why he isnt in the discussion. Behind the o-line, you need a quarterback that is mobile. Period. David Carr gets killed routinely. Matt Leinart is David Carr V 2.0. Besides, Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart isnt a debate.....Young wins hands down. I personally wouldnt care if he went to eastern carolina university. Im not burnt orange, and i actually went to a school that hates most ut products......TEXAS STATE! but anyways.....Carr didnt get it done. Dominack Davis has had success. Carr needs to be replaced. Davis doesnt.

man, finally a statement that i totally agree with. :redtowel:

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 06:30 PM
The answer is NO. People want Vince because he is Vince from Houston who played at UT. If QB was a big need of ours, then we would be discussing Vince v. Matt v. Reggie.
Speak for yourself.
Not From UT
Am a native Houstonian but could care less about VY being from here. It does help though cuz it makes knowing his potential easier as I seen a HS game of his, 2 Horns games (father of another kid who plays little leagus Football with my son has season tix).
I just flat out think he is the best fit. We need a change at that position.
We don't owe him anything(carr) other than his $$

Keeping carr along with getting Kubes is gotta be like getting married to a women who is recently divorced and she asks you to wear her x's old clothes, us his old cologne, and etc for Kubes.

big homey
01-18-2006, 06:33 PM
It's true, if people really wanted VY for a change at QB instead of just a hometown hero, then Leinart would definitely be a part of the debate. They try to defend their position by downing Leinart, who is no doubt a composed pocket passer and is just as much a leader as Vince.

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 06:41 PM
It's true, if people really wanted VY for a change at QB instead of just a hometown hero, then Leinart would definitely be a part of the debate. They try to defend their position by downing Leinart, who is no doubt a composed pocket passer and is just as much a leader as Vince.
yep

swtbound07
01-18-2006, 06:46 PM
It's true, if people really wanted VY for a change at QB instead of just a hometown hero, then Leinart would definitely be a part of the debate. They try to defend their position by downing Leinart, who is no doubt a composed pocket passer and is just as much a leader as Vince.

no...read the posts. We want a change in the STYLE of qb as well...pocket passer doesnt work when you cant keep a pocket together....leinart is no doubt a composed pocket passer, and a fine leader. However, for the 50000000th time, a pocket qb wont work in a system where you get 1.3 seconds from the snap to release the ball. Thats why leinart isnt even up for debate, he couldnt possibly be an upgrade over carr.

JDizzle
01-18-2006, 06:47 PM
It's true, if people really wanted VY for a change at QB instead of just a hometown hero, then Leinart would definitely be a part of the debate. They try to defend their position by downing Leinart, who is no doubt a composed pocket passer and is just as much a leader as Vince.

I agree. I think the hype surrounding Bush, Leinart, and Young is much deserved, but to say player A is "hands down" better than player B stinks of homerism and man-love, which is pretty evident in many threads that dismiss Leinart immidiately and ignore the things he brings to the table.

big homey
01-18-2006, 06:52 PM
no...read the posts. We want a change in the STYLE of qb as well...pocket passer doesnt work when you cant keep a pocket together....leinart is no doubt a composed pocket passer, and a fine leader. However, for the 50000000th time, a pocket qb wont work in a system where you get 1.3 seconds from the snap to release the ball. Thats why leinart isnt even up for debate, he couldnt possibly be an upgrade over carr.
A mobile QB likely would have more success with this team's line, but it won't last too long. You've seen what happened to Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper this season, and with VY's reckless running (he engages the tackler rather than protecting himself), he could easily suffer the same fate. Not to mention the aforementioned QBs have better lines than we do.

JDizzle
01-18-2006, 06:52 PM
no...read the posts. We want a change in the STYLE of qb as well...pocket passer doesnt work when you cant keep a pocket together....leinart is no doubt a composed pocket passer, and a fine leader. However, for the 50000000th time, a pocket qb wont work in a system where you get 1.3 seconds from the snap to release the ball. Thats why leinart isnt even up for debate, he couldnt possibly be an upgrade over carr.

So you think we should ignore making necessary changes to the line during Young's career here just so you can see him run the ball and make throws on the run?

run-david-run
01-18-2006, 07:04 PM
completely agree. Matt would have no chance in houston, thats why he isnt in the discussion. Behind the o-line, you need a quarterback that is mobile. Period. David Carr gets killed routinely. Matt Leinart is David Carr V 2.0. Besides, Vince Young vs. Matt Leinart isnt a debate.....Young wins hands down. I personally wouldnt care if he went to eastern carolina university. Im not burnt orange, and i actually went to a school that hates most ut products......TEXAS STATE! but anyways.....Carr didnt get it done. Dominack Davis has had success. Carr needs to be replaced. Davis doesnt.
THAT'S THE WHOLE POINT!!!! How on earth can you say that a QB who is noted for his smart play and quick release would be eaten alive on out team because of the line, then not have the next few words you type be to the effect of "which is why we have to fix the line"????? Mike Vick was sacked over 40 times last season, with a "playmaker" at running back, a great TE and the best running game in the league! Mobility in the form of speed and a running QB is not the way to avoid sacks. The key to avoiding sacks and pressure is to actually get some quality linemen who understand the system and communicate. Speed should not be a factor in getting a QB. If you truly want a new QB, we should not be so limited in our choices (as we were limited in our offense this season) because the line play is so terrible.

By the way, there is no "system" in the league where you get 1.3 second to throw the ball, that just a lack of talent/coaching. It's not ment to be that way...

swtbound07
01-18-2006, 07:23 PM
A mobile QB likely would have more success with this team's line, but it won't last too long. You've seen what happened to Vick, McNabb, and Culpepper this season, and with VY's reckless running (he engages the tackler rather than protecting himself), he could easily suffer the same fate. Not to mention the aforementioned QBs have better lines than we do.

vick missed 2 games i believe...nothing serious...and 31 other nfl teams have better lines than we do. To address other points made;

I agree, and feel i have been fairly consistent in saying the line needs a serious upgrade/overhaul. However, 4 years have gone by, and that hasnt happened, so excuse me if im a little hesistant to think that magically this year management will get it. ideally, the line would be addressed, however if its not, my point is that a matt leinart brings no more to the table then does a david carr, and we've already seen that a david carr type qb doesnt work here. Unless you want to argue with me that matt leinart is more mobile than vince young, then i stand by my arguement of saying matt brings nothing new to the table

big homey
01-18-2006, 07:36 PM
vick missed 2 games i believe...nothing serious...and 31 other nfl teams have better lines than we do. To address other points made;

I agree, and feel i have been fairly consistent in saying the line needs a serious upgrade/overhaul. However, 4 years have gone by, and that hasnt happened, so excuse me if im a little hesistant to think that magically this year management will get it. ideally, the line would be addressed, however if its not, my point is that a matt leinart brings no more to the table then does a david carr, and we've already seen that a david carr type qb doesnt work here. Unless you want to argue with me that matt leinart is more mobile than vince young, then i stand by my arguement of saying matt brings nothing new to the table
I'm not pushing for Leinart over Young (check the sig), and I believe if we do take a QB for some reason, Young is it. Also, a David Carr works as well as a Peyton Manning or Tom Brady behind our line (you saw the games), so it's not exactly Carr's fault he hasn't succeeded here. I'm not saying Carr is as good as either of the two, but they look just as bad without protection.

Whatever moves the staff makes will depend immensely on Kubiak's input, and if he can coach up the line to make drafting a bunch unnecessary, great. But then the pick would still be better used to shore up the D, IMO.

Vick was also out for a long time a couple of seasons ago, and I've never seen a QB so pestered by injury. Carr has taken the hits and gotten up, which may mean more than just toughness.

Texans_Chick
01-18-2006, 11:28 PM
I won't argue that Leinart doesn't possess many physical attributes like Young does, but to say he's a "fungible pocket passer" is kind of silly.

You left out the part of my post about him being nicked up. No matter what the Carr bashers say, dude is solid and doesn't get hurt much given the lickings he's taken.

I just wouldn't want to replace a great college stat pocket passer (Carr) with another great college stat pocket passer that happens to get nicked up (Leinart)--whether it is his knee or shoulder. (Statistically, in college, Carr was a pocket passer--he just happens to be faster than many QBs).

I think it is funny that the SI top 20 in the draft showed Leinart with the knee brace. I keep thinking back to the preseason this year where all of our QBs were hurt to some degree. Leinart wouldn't survive that. JMO.

Napa Auto Parts
01-18-2006, 11:34 PM
I want Vince Young but im not impressed with where he decided to play college it would mean more to me if he played in a power house like Conference usa or the WAC and never won a national championship then i would be all for tacking him number 1:stirpot:

bdiddy
01-18-2006, 11:47 PM
Of those who feel like we should take Vince, would your opinion still be as strong if he'd just led Notre Dame or Michigan or whoever to the national championship?

If your honest answer is yes, then you're basically saying that you feel we need a change a QB for the long term (which happens to be my opinion).

If your honest answer is no, then you're basically saying that you want him here because he's a Longhorn, or from Houston, which to me isn't a good enough reason alone to take a guy. It's icing on the cake, but shouldn't be the driving force behind the decision.

If he went to ND he would have been forced to go to class. Additionally, he would have learned to speak the English language.

texplayer2
01-18-2006, 11:47 PM
I don't think anyone on this board who has suggested us taking Bush has said they don't want to draft a lineman or two also. To me the problem with trading down to address this and Defense with more picks doesn't mean you will get the guys You want.(D.J. last year) As with that pick decision are being made on the fly with very little time. If it comes to the picks after the first Rnd D. or O-line guy you want to draft and these other players aren't available they will pick off their draftboard.So these guys you think might fall, might be gone so then your actuall getting your second or maybe third choices for these later picks. Say Mel dosen't take into account the same type of trades you are looking being made early are made late. Maybe 2-3 teams trade into the backend of the first and scoop these GREAT linemen away. By using the first pick you get anyone you want FOR SURE, everything after that is up for grabs. If we were to trade I can only see it happening one time and out of the first three. If it wasn't four or five then those Linemen every body keeps talking about quite possibly be Gone. Would Winston Justice or which ever linemen you think is third be enough for the first pick and a first next year? Maybe one more second rnd this year? As a GM of the teams in the positions we want to trade into I would not give you much more, I couldn't go back to my own fans with that. The Value of the pick might have already been over Hyped. Sticker Shock.