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View Full Version : Rags to Riches?


Runner
01-18-2006, 04:29 AM
Under the new coaching regime I would like to see Dave Ragone get a chance to prove what he has, assuming he is re-signed. I'd like to see him get some significant pre-season time with the first unit, although I don't know how we can work this because I think Carr will need lots of time with the new offense too. I'd like to see him get real game experience during the season as well, whether in blowouts (either way) or if we just want to try to spark the offense by changing something.

I know that the NFL Europe is frequently treated as a joke around here, but I think the competition there is better than in college. I think the typical NFLE team is stronger and deeper across the roster than any college team and therefore provides a legitimate opportunity to evaluate players. I will admit that I actually watched the NFLE games when they were on TV, and I saw these three characteristics in Rags:

1) He stayed in the pocket as long as possible
2) He moved around in the pocket, giving himself more time and his lineman more room to operate
3) He looked down field at multiple receivers while doing the previous two and made good passes to the open man

I saw these same three things out of Rags in his limited pre-season playing time. In other words, I think Rags has good pocket presence. Coincidentally, these are also three items for which David Carr is frequently criticized. I think that if Carr falters or is hurt for an extended period of time, Ragone should be given the chance to show his capabilities in real games. I think it would be our duty as fans to stick with Ragone through his first couple of games, which may be rough as he adjusts and gets in sync to NFL game speed and opposition. A solid running game would certainly smooth this transition should it occur.

If he gets this sort of chance next year, I think we may all be pleasantly surprised.

Texans Horror
01-18-2006, 08:41 AM
NFL Europe is where we send good players to get better. But that being said, I haven't seen anything to make me think that Rags is Rags, and Carrs is Carrs, meaning that Rags would have the same problems, if not more, than Carr when he (Rags) is playing because of the line.

Double Barrel
01-18-2006, 02:24 PM
While giving Ragone due credit for being Mr. NFL Europe last year, we still have to keep it in perspective that there has to be a reason why he's still the third QB on our roster.

I'd like to see him play more, too, just to evaluate his talent against NFL starters. But not to the detriment of the team.

Vinny
01-18-2006, 02:34 PM
3 NFLe QB's have made the Pro Bowl.

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 02:34 PM
I agree that Ragone is 3rd on the depth chart for a reason, but I would still like to see him get some good playing time in the preseason, if nothing else to show that he's not capable of running the team so everyone will finally get that. However, as was mentioned, Carr should get enough reps in preseason (although he'll get a lot in camps and all that) to make sure he is getting the new offense, and if for some reason Carr isn't working out well with it during next season, I wouldn't mind seeing Ragone get in there (or as you said at the end of blowout games), but I would not just sub him in there to see how he does if Carr is handling himself well. This of course assumes we don't draft a QB that will be higher than Ragone on the depth chart.

Runner
01-18-2006, 02:43 PM
While giving Ragone due credit for being Mr. NFL Europe last year, we still have to keep it in perspective that there has to be a reason why he's still the third QB on our roster.



That's why at some point it would have been nice to give him some real playing time this past season. I hate for the reason he is 3rd string to be lack of opportunity. We'll kick ourselves if he leaves and becomes a player somewhere.

eric138
01-18-2006, 02:44 PM
REASON:
Because Capers was married to his system and his Depth Chart.

JohnGalt
01-18-2006, 04:18 PM
While giving Ragone due credit for being Mr. NFL Europe last year, we still have to keep it in perspective that there has to be a reason why he's still the third QB on our roster.

I'd like to see him play more, too, just to evaluate his talent against NFL starters. But not to the detriment of the team.

In an organization that uses reason and sense concerning depth chart and FA moves, I think that that perspective is needed. I don't think we that history in Houston.

I am can't believe Banks is better than Ragone. I was in StL when Banks was the starter. I'm still amazed that the man is still in the league.

I just had a thought, how about trading Banks or Ragone for some players in needed positions. We seem to be well stocked in quality QB's

Double Barrel
01-18-2006, 04:27 PM
That's why at some point it would have been nice to give him some real playing time this past season. I hate for the reason he is 3rd string to be lack of opportunity. We'll kick ourselves if he leaves and becomes a player somewhere.

I agree. We would chant "Ragone" at the last few games, just because we need actual game tape of him against real NFL defenses. It would give future coaches a points of reference.

There has to be something in him to become MVP of the NFL's "minor" league. But we never get a chance to see it for whatever reason(s).

I honestly have no idea how Ragone stacks up to Banks. It's just strange that he comes back from a very successful NFL Europe campaign and is put third on the roster.

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 06:12 PM
This is ridiculous. Back up quarterbacks are back up quarterbacks, to be backup quarterbacks.

No one comes into this league with NFL experience..... they are all evaluated in college, or on the practice field. They may have the toughest job in the league. They have to know that they are as good as the guy starting, and more times than not, they have to be "OKay" with being the only one in the world that knows. They have to be able to keep a good attitude, and be ready to play better than they ever have at any given moment. When their opportunity comes, they've got to understand that is their opportunity to let the rest of the world know what they've known all the time.

Kurt Warner... Tom Brady... Ryan Fitzpatrick.... Aaron Brooks..... and a few others. The Man went down, they stepped in and showed the world what they could do. Sometimes, they have to go back to the bench... and prepare themselves to do it again.... such is the life of a backup quarterback.

We are not owed anything as a fan... the ability to "evaluate" a third string quarterback in real game situations... while nice, isn't a right owed us.

Especially on this team, where our first string quarterback needs as many reps as he can get. With our old system... with our new system... with the system we imagine would be good for him....

Runner
01-18-2006, 06:21 PM
Kurt Warner... Tom Brady... Ryan Fitzpatrick.... Aaron Brooks..... and a few others. The Man went down, they stepped in and showed the world what they could do. Sometimes, they have to go back to the bench... and prepare themselves to do it again.... such is the life of a backup quarterback.



So no matter how bad the starter is or is playing, it's his job unless he gets hurt? I don't think that is what you meant, or is it? It seems that sometimes back-ups just get to play.

Double Barrel
01-18-2006, 06:37 PM
We are not owed anything as a fan... the ability to "evaluate" a third string quarterback in real game situations... while nice, isn't a right owed us.

I don't think anyone in this thread advocated a position that we (the fans) are "owed" anything. idonno:

I just said it would have been cool to see him play in some of those pathetic blowout games. Obviously Dom Capers disagreed (perhaps because he knew his days were numbered, so what did he care).

It would have been nice to have game tape for coaches to evaluate Ragone, not necessarily us.

Especially on this team, where our first string quarterback needs as many reps as he can get.

yeah, as many reps - and SACKS - as he could get in a game is always good for your starting QB. :ok:

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 09:17 PM
So no matter how bad the starter is or is playing, it's his job unless he gets hurt? I don't think that is what you meant, or is it? It seems that sometimes back-ups just get to play.


ehh.... kinda sorta... IF you as the coach think that is your best chance to win, then yeah... when he comes to the sideline, you work out every detail of that last possesion... what went right, what went wrong, what did you see, what you should've been looking at. Then start preparing for what we are going to be doing on the next possession. Let's do this now, instead two days from now, after watching film for 6 hours, and playing against a different bunch of guys.

The starter doesn't get a break, he's got to work his way threw it.

If he's not being responsive, if he's taking the criticism negatively and is taking it out on the game.... Yeah he comes out, he get's fined... he won't start the next game....

But I'm not going to throw in a my backup, just because we are getting blown out..... It's obvious that the first team needs some work.

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 09:26 PM
I don't think anyone in this thread advocated a position that we (the fans) are "owed" anything. idonno:

I just said it would have been cool to see him play in some of those pathetic blowout games. Obviously Dom Capers disagreed (perhaps because he knew his days were numbered, so what did he care).

It would have been nice to have game tape for coaches to evaluate Ragone, not necessarily us.



:ok:

Ir-regardless :)..... I think that came out wrong..... I didn't mean to be all talking to little man and all. Sorry.

Hookem Horns
01-18-2006, 09:27 PM
Speaking of NFL Europe, why don't they send Carr to Europe? If he doesn't turn into Joe Montana over there than we know we need to draft a starting QB. :)

kbourda
01-18-2006, 10:48 PM
WOW!!!!! F-IN WOW!!!!! So now am I supposed to trust the former regime when someone says "he's third string for a reason"? We are talking about a regime that had a person who never played the position of QB teaching another QB how to be one in the NFL. Behind a makeshift line. Personally, I need to be around you guys, cause Carr has shown me nothing these past four years. So it blows my mind that some of you are willing to bestow him with all this greatness and pass it off as "the coaching was bad". Granted I know this to be a fact. The coaching was BS. But I also said that from day one (Boy, do I wish that old message board was still here). No matter what, Vince or Reggie or whatever, that QB position needs to be up for grabs. Carr has been given this spot for the past four years, no more. Like some of you are willing to post numbers from Carr and his college career. I'm here to tell you, I look at Ragone's numbers too, (excuse my english) they ain't too shabby! It just strikes me as odd that the one position that we really had no problem with (RB), for the most part, is the one that we so anxious to "upgrade". When I think of the Texans offensive woes, RB isn't one of them.

Nighthawk
01-19-2006, 12:15 AM
I agree that Ragone is 3rd on the depth chart for a reason,

Yeah, the coaches. Casserly. Their "boy" in David Carr. Don't want to stress him out, wouldn't want to risk Little Davy's confidence.

Carr is a boy among men, exactly the opposite of VY in the context of the Rose Bowl. If you can't see that you need your eyes examined. And see it on the field, not in the stats, see it in the way he moves and the others on the team move, in the demeanor, the facial expression, the remarks, the sense of possibility in the team.

Example: when Banks played in that game late this year the team was much, and I mean MUCH, tighter, quicker, more aggressive on the field. Sure, Banks made a couple of bad decisions, but he got the off when Carr could not, he got the ball downfield when Carr could not.

And if you've watched the team over these four year, you've seen the same thing every time Banks comes in to play. If you saw it once, you could say it was coincidence. If you see it every time it's just may be the difference between the QBs.

Basically Carr was given a big birthday present and crowned the king of the team 4 years ago. Management is very pleased with Carr. The people on the team aren't buying it. They won't say much--they're employees, after all--but you hear it now and again, one way and another.

I say again: Carr is a boy king.

P_Buchanon
01-19-2006, 01:13 AM
Speaking of NFL Europe, why don't they send Carr to Europe? If he doesn't turn into Joe Montana over there than we know we need to draft a starting QB. :)
Not a bad idea!!! But they would not send him... He has to say: I want play in the NFL Europe!!!!

Hookem Horns
01-19-2006, 01:32 AM
Not a bad idea!!! But they would not send him... He has to say: I want play in the NFL Europe!!!!

Philip Buchanon is a great cornerback and David Hasselhoff is a great singer. Only in Germany. :rolleyes:

P_Buchanon
01-19-2006, 01:57 AM
Philip Buchanon is a great cornerback and David Hasselhoff is a great singer. Only in Germany. :rolleyes:
lol: Yes Philip is... and no hasselhoff isnīt....
Wait for next season... Phillip and Dunta will make :party: to the other receivers!!!

aj.
01-19-2006, 06:14 AM
While giving Ragone due credit for being Mr. NFL Europe last year, we still have to keep it in perspective that there has to be a reason why he's still the third QB on our roster.
.

Yeah, and that reason is due to the same thought process that concluded Steve Foley, Derrick Johnson, and Marlon McCree weren't good fits, and P-Buc, Todd Wade, Victor Riley and others were ...

cadahnic
01-19-2006, 06:47 AM
I am not going against Ragone's talent, but if you have ever watched a practice you will see why he does not get PT. Hell before Ragone was Rohan Davey who lit up NFLE and he actually won the big game, now he is at home hoping that Saban picks him up. Ragone is a good back-up QB and maybe in a couple of years he will have enough savy to start now, but his arm strength and accuracy is not up to starter or even some PT standards.

TheOgre
01-19-2006, 10:56 AM
If we draft Young and trade Carr, I'd actually like to see Ragone start the season for us. Why you ask? It would give Young time to learn the offense. It would allow Kubiak time to get the line put together so Young wouldn't take a pounding. If Ragone does well, we could trade him for a high pick after the season. If Ragone struggles, then Young comes off the bench and the fans would go crazy.

Double Barrel
01-19-2006, 11:27 AM
Yeah, and that reason is due to the same thought process that concluded Steve Foley, Derrick Johnson, and Marlon McCree weren't good fits, and P-Buc, Todd Wade, Victor Riley and others were ...

yep, good point. Unfortunately, half of that dynamic duo is still with us... :brickwall

We'll soon know what Ragone is made of and if he's worth giving a shot to when Kubiak gets here. If anyone can truly evaluate QBs, I believe he's the man for the job. Maybe some of the Carr hate will diminish if DC gets an endorsement by our new HC.

Runner
01-19-2006, 12:18 PM
I wouldn't be surprised to see Ragone in St. Louis back with Linehan if he doesn't stay here.