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Wolf
01-17-2006, 08:47 PM
http://espn.go.com/ncf/seniorbowl/carr.html


wow.. I need to find out what they said about other players.. I am not sure who did the scouting report and how reliable they were.. Makes me wonder.. Has the Texan ex-coaching staff ruined him or was the NFL just "too fast"

Wolf
01-17-2006, 09:01 PM
Escape Ability B+ Can run and has quickness.

lol:

*edit* funny because for 4 years I thought Carr escaped pretty well

Hardcore Texan
01-17-2006, 09:01 PM
Wow. Good Stuff. It should give the team/fans some hope. You pose a good question, I think he will thrive under Kubiak.

HoustonFan
01-17-2006, 09:10 PM
I think his ability and quickness were kept in check a big part of the season. Hopefully we'll see more of that next season w/ Carr. The Texans need to Woosah or something.

TexansMVP
01-17-2006, 09:21 PM
Nice find on the article.

thegr8fan
01-17-2006, 09:44 PM
Can throw the short ball too hard at times. Did show the ability to take something off the ball on screen passes. It's an area he can work on.he hasn't improved on this MUCH in 4 years of playing. He did improve last year, slightly, IMHO, but not enough to say he was good at it, though. He also doesn't realize that a blocking TE, not know for his catching ability does not get the same hard, over the head area, speed ball, on a short pass as a WR or DD might. QB's have to adjust for the player somewhat and Carr doesn't do that well at all, IMHO.

Can run and has good speed, but the thing he does best is throw from the pocket -- he's no Donovan McNabb. this is probably the most accurate statement I have seen to date on Carr and his ability overall.

Wharton
01-17-2006, 10:29 PM
Character : Solid. Married with a child. He's a leader.

This is the line I thought was the funniest. Just hasn't shown any of this ability yet.

Wolf
01-17-2006, 10:34 PM
Character : Solid. Married with a child. He's a leader.

This is the line I thought was the funniest. Just hasn't shown any of this ability yet.

except that he has 2 kids now :lol:

YoungTexanFan
01-17-2006, 10:36 PM
Character : Solid. Married with a child. He's a leader.

This is the line I thought was the funniest. Just hasn't shown any of this ability yet.

He has shown a lot of leadership qualities. He makes plays when most couldnt. He has willed our team to first downs and some victories. He gets up after each hit and demonstrates the willingness to move through adversity. He is quite a leader. He is just on a bad team, and coached by a very poor staff.

pskinny
01-17-2006, 10:40 PM
In his 5th year, Carr threw for over 4800 passing yards, 46 TDs, 9 Ints, and 5 Rushing TDs.

http://gobulldogs.collegesports.com/sports/m-footbl/mtt/carr_david00.html

wrestler4life
01-17-2006, 10:43 PM
I agree, and thus we do not need VY

Napa Auto Parts
01-17-2006, 11:02 PM
Well that just shows how even the scouts go wrong we all knew carr would never make it in the NFL for the love of Life David isnt even the best QB to come out of fresno state and that is a sad thing to say. david is what you can really call a product of the system that had no chance in the NFL ala akili smith heath shuler tim couch. may be carr would of had a chance if he went to and established team to late now we wont ever know the kid is shot in the head. i just hope we can get something for him in a trade.

Wharton
01-17-2006, 11:19 PM
He makes plays when most couldn’t. Yep, running out of bounds for a 2 yard loss and a sack are really great plays.


He has willed our team to first downs and some victories.Who cares about first downs and 2 victories last year. I am impressed!


He gets up after each hit and demonstrates the willingness to move through adversity.He's tuff, I'll give him that one. But, Its how you react to adversity that makes you great. You either step up to the challenge or you fall back. Since Carr regressed this year, I'd say he didn't do so well in the leadership category. Also, given how much he gets paid, anyone would stick around for a paycheck. Just because he didn't quit the team doesn't mean he performed well under adversity.

Yep, David is quite a leader

bigcarlos
01-17-2006, 11:21 PM
Well that just shows how even the scouts go wrong we all knew carr would never make it in the NFL for the love of Life David isnt even the best QB to come out of fresno state and that is a sad thing to say. david is what you can really call a product of the system that had no chance in the NFL ala akili smith heath shuler tim couch. may be carr would of had a chance if he went to and established team to late now we wont ever know the kid is shot in the head. i just hope we can get something for him in a trade.
:redtowel:

Wolf
01-17-2006, 11:23 PM
Well that just shows how even the scouts go wrong we all knew carr would never make it in the NFL for the love of Life David isnt even the best QB to come out of fresno state and that is a sad thing to say. david is what you can really call a product of the system that had no chance in the NFL ala akili smith heath shuler tim couch. may be carr would of had a chance if he went to and established team to late now we wont ever know the kid is shot in the head. i just hope we can get something for him in a trade.

I understand what you are saying but If it weren't for the "system" in college.. could you not agree that Capers "system" wasn't fitting Carr's style in the pros? I am not saying Kubiak (by reports are he is our coach) can turn things around (I hope he can) for David, but I'd like to see a coach show some confidence in his QB and a QB (along with the team) have confidence in their coach... (mind what the players said off the field, it didn't look like it on the field on both sides of the ball)

bigcarlos
01-17-2006, 11:28 PM
He has shown a lot of leadership qualities. He makes plays when most couldnt. He has willed our team to first downs and some victories. He gets up after each hit and demonstrates the willingness to move through adversity. He is quite a leader. He is just on a bad team, and coached by a very poor staff.
lol: :neener:

Wolf
01-17-2006, 11:37 PM
my thing is scouting report (and yes they can be wrong) is Carr had a future

Is it the game is too fast for him or did the Texan ex-coaches and the whole philosophy just ruin him?

What I see out of Carr is he can make pretty much every throw yet reading defenses he either can't or he just hasn't had enough blocking up front to allow him to let the game slow down for him.. he still watches the rush in the pocket (not to blame him) instead of going to the next level and looking downfield and "feeling" the rush.

LBC_Justin
01-18-2006, 12:08 AM
http://espn.go.com/ncf/seniorbowl/carr.html


wow.. I need to find out what they said about other players.. I am not sure who did the scouting report and how reliable they were.. Makes me wonder.. Has the Texan ex-coaching staff ruined him or was the NFL just "too fast"
Two Words: Pass Protection.

Carr has what it takes, but because of poor coaching, bad schemes, bad luck(Tony Boselli), indecisiveness from coaches, all this has made him look bad.

I am telling you right now. If we let this kid go, he is going to pull a Steve Young and go to another team and lead them to the promise land over and over again, on his way to the Hall of Fame. All he needs is a season of good pass protection to get his confidence back.

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 12:13 AM
Scouting Reports, just like newspaper headlines are written to sale papers & magazines. Let's take a look at othe ESPN.com scouting reports, and see if they hit the mark or not. I wonder what they had on Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith, even Drew Brees and Eli Manning.

The media machine gets going on these guys, and just like you have people on this forum writing their ideas, their delusions in the form of posts, so to you have these analyst...... except they get paid to do it.

For this to have any meaning, we need to know who wrote it, and what their track history is.

edo783
01-18-2006, 12:31 AM
Scouting Reports, just like newspaper headlines are written to sale papers & magazines. Let's take a look at othe ESPN.com scouting reports, and see if they hit the mark or not. I wonder what they had on Ryan Leaf or Akili Smith, even Drew Brees and Eli Manning.

The media machine gets going on these guys, and just like you have people on this forum writing their ideas, their delusions in the form of posts, so to you have these analyst...... except they get paid to do it.

For this to have any meaning, we need to know who wrote it, and what their track history is.

Soooo, that applys to all the Vince hypers also, correct?

Wharton
01-18-2006, 12:32 AM
Two Words: Pass Protection.

Carr has what it takes.........All he needs is a season of good pass protection to get his confidence back.:rofl: My side hurts!!!!!

Hookem Horns
01-18-2006, 12:40 AM
All I have to say is things are going to get real ugly next season when this guy continues to flop even with a new coach and system in place. The fact that the Texans could have had a Vince Young is only going to compound the ugliness with the fans and media. :hide:

michaelm
01-18-2006, 12:45 AM
Remember this thread... one day you will all look back and see this...

David Carr will be a Houston Texan for at least the next three years and my prediction IS:

In the next three years (under Kubiak) David Carr will have a single season with 3,600+ yds passing; 300+ yds rushing; 24+TDs and 16 or fewer INTs.

These are not hall of fame numbers, but with a decent team around him, these numbers are enough to win games...

I will go as far as to say that he will have these numbers or close to them next season.
Would numbers like that satisfy you all?


edited to say that once he achieves numbers like these, he will be able to duplicate them in the following seasons...

Mr. White
01-18-2006, 12:53 AM
Is it the game is too fast for him or did the Texan ex-coaches and the whole philosophy just ruin him?

I've heard accounts of both. Heard of articles with Defensive Coordinators saying he has slow reflexes (second-hand...never got a source to begin with)and heard all the recent media speculation that he is shellshocked from all the sacks.

For some reason, I think the "shellshock" can be coached by a staff that really knows what they are doing.

CoastalTexan
01-18-2006, 01:01 AM
Didn't we all witness what Carr can do when he has control of the play calling? Wasn't it something like 24 points in 1 half or quarter? then the next half pendry took over and we scored 3 points? That is clearly the system bringin the man down. Lets give him an O-line and a good TE along with a defense that creates turnovers (this is alot to get I understand) and see what he does. If he sucks, oh well we have a good foundation, bring in the next best thing in 2-3 years. We got suckered oh well, but we gave our #1 pick the chance. All i know is i saw him calling his own plays and had more success than pendry could dream up.

Mr. White
01-18-2006, 01:07 AM
Wasn't that against the Rams? (Carr calling his own plays.) It was one of the games that got pulled here in Austin by the CBS affiliate, so I'm not real sure.

edo783
01-18-2006, 12:33 PM
Wasn't that against the Rams? (Carr calling his own plays.) It was one of the games that got pulled here in Austin by the CBS affiliate, so I'm not real sure.

True, but I think the point he was trying to make that in the SAME circumstance/same game, Carr did MUCH better when left on his own than when our CRACK coaching staff tried to micro-manage the same game. It is hard for me to understand that a lot of the fans don't seem to see just how INCOMPETENT this coaching staff was.

Dennis007
01-18-2006, 12:37 PM
Soooo, that applys to all the Vince hypers also, correct?

Applies more to the DC hypers.:challenge

Mr. White
01-18-2006, 12:41 PM
It is hard for me to understand that a lot of the fans don't seem to see just how INCOMPETENT this coaching staff was.

I totally agree about the coaching staff. The question now is how much better will the players be now with the benefit of a new coaching staff? Are they really the chumps that a 2-14 record would indicate? Hard to tell with the awful coaching.

That being said, I expect that a credible staff will improve all phases of the game.

Cjeremy635
01-18-2006, 12:53 PM
How many of you Carr bashing fans will be on his bandwagon next year if he starts winning? I, being of sound mind and judgement, am the first to say that he has made some bonehead decisions over the past few years. He hasn't however, been properly given the basic fundamental coaching one should receive when coming into the NFL from college. I do think that he will be a better QB next year under a new system/coaching regime. Hall of Famer....probably not, not even close, but give this kid another season to see what he is made of and I think we will all be presently suprised. I think David knows that this is a "do or die" year for him. The pressure is squarely on his shoulders and we'll see how he responds to it. He might have a Bree's type year and shut a lot of the screaming VY fans up. Either way we go, I think this will be a better team. Here's to 06'.....:twocents: :superman:

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 12:59 PM
3 year extension equals:
Next season is 3-13 or 4-12 (new coach, new system, new cordinators learning a new system with new verbage who were previously assistants at two different teams, and that fact that they all will be together for the first time)
season after that 6-10 or 7-9
season after that (Carrs' last season under the 3 year extension scenario) we go 9-7 or 10-6 and thers's no guarantee that 10-6 get's us in the playoff, Especially if VY or leinert tears it up @ Tenn and Peyton is still lighting it up in Indy.

Then what? Do we give a 5 year extension cuz he's shown improvement. That 7 seasons without a playoff appearance. With the 7th being the 1st season we have a winning record. He'll be pushing 30 by this point.

He must go.

I'm gonna try and find his scouting report coming out of HS.

Caphorn
01-18-2006, 01:04 PM
There is NOTHING more frustrating than a guy who can't regularly deliver on low hanging fruit - short dump screens - the tight end toss. David really is not good enough at these things and the scouting report had that right. For whatever reason, I still can't stand that he doesn't have this skill down pat. It allows the DEs to just pin their ears back and come after him on every down. There's not a good safety valve in this offense without consistent - I mean damn near perfect - tosses in the short game.

Can David improve? I certainly hope so because I don't think there's a chance in hell that the Texans really draft Vince. Albeit Vince's strengths - escability like none, dead consistent in the short game, finding the TE - are what the Texans absolutely need to see from Carr.

SBTexans08
01-18-2006, 01:18 PM
may be carr would of had a chance if he went to and established team to late now we wont ever know the kid is shot in the head.
That alone is adversity. Before he was even drafted he faced adversity....coming to an expansion team was something he was willing to take on. That showed his courage and he looked very excited about getting this team to take it's baby steps and mature throughout.

Any and all QBs would prefer to go to an established team, with good reason. You're able to make a quicker impact. David however's had to deal with the trial and errors along with Bob McNair in getting the right coaching staff as well as the right schemes. Carr's taken the pounding and has missed very few games. One thing that Carr's getting knocked on is his willingness to listen to the coaches and follow orders. When out there on the field, the coaches see one thing, the QB sees another. We saw what Carr can do when empowering or entrusting him with calling plays and making the neccessary changes on offense depending on his judgement. As it's been mentioned....when given that authority or sole role of dictator of his offense.....Carr's produced very well.

Carr's done what he's had to do with what's been given to him. I think even now, with him listening every day to our sports radio shows, probably coming into these MBs to see what the buzz is on him and how his team is down on him, he's showing great class and being a big man about how he's carrying himself. When a drink was thrown at his young wife, Carr conducted himself in such a professional manner. The guy has fought and suffered not only physically on the field but also emotionally, no doubt as the QB for this city. I'm sure he doesn't doubt himself but to see how some Houston fans are turning on him and wanting him replaced by another prospect, ridiculing him and his lack of productivity because of his subjection to the coaching staffs headship in regards to play-calling I bet churns his stomach. However...he's ready when called upon and I hardly doubt that when the new coaching staff, he'll blossom into what he's truly potentially able to be.

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 01:18 PM
I found this. Not much on his recruitment out of HS. I'll keep trying to find something. Check this out though.

http://www.jockbio.com/Bios/Carr/Carr_bio.html

Something that stood out to me was that he was red-shirted after his sophomore season. Then came back and had a somewhat respectable season and then the monster season that pt him in a class of only 6 to pass for 4000 yds.

I still think it's time to go.
He needs a fresh start, a break even, maybe even a season behind another QB on another team, kinda like his red-shirt sophomore season. Cuz if he goes at this pace he's gonna be ruined by forming too many bad habits. Cowboys could be a good fit, redskins, GB if favre stays (then he can battle out rogers for the start).
Other teams that he can impact is Cards, Raiders (maybe not since new coach unless it's Pat Hill), Miami,

He needs a fresh start like I said but it needs to be on a team with an existing system and existing coaches.

SBTexans08
01-18-2006, 01:19 PM
3 year extension equals:
Next season is 3-13 or 4-12 (new coach, new system, new cordinators learning a new system with new verbage who were previously assistants at two different teams, and that fact that they all will be together for the first time)
season after that 6-10 or 7-9
season after that (Carrs' last season under the 3 year extension scenario) we go 9-7 or 10-6 and thers's no guarantee that 10-6 get's us in the playoff, Especially if VY or leinert tears it up @ Tenn and Peyton is still lighting it up in Indy.

Then what? Do we give a 5 year extension cuz he's shown improvement. That 7 seasons without a playoff appearance. With the 7th being the 1st season we have a winning record. He'll be pushing 30 by this point.

He must go.

I'm gonna try and find his scouting report coming out of HS.

Elway took far more than 7 years to finally win the Super Bowl. Patience is key.

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 01:22 PM
Elway took 10 years to finally win the Super Bowl. Patience is key.
But he got to three along the way. Not at all bad my friend. Everyone wants to win one, especially if you get to three, but he got his cuz he's a great QB period. Not a QB that needs all the right pieces in place in order to be great.

SBTexans08
01-18-2006, 01:26 PM
But he got to three along the way. Not at all bad my friend. Everyone wants to win one, especially if you get to three, but he got his cuz he's a great QB period. Not a QB that needs all the right pieces in place in order to be great.
To begin with, Elway was in a far better situation coming into the league than Carr. Hell....Elway HAD to be traded cause he didn't want to go to..:confused: ..forgot who it was again...

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 01:31 PM
To begin with, Elway was in a far better situation coming into the league than Carr. Hell....Elway HAD to be traded cause he didn't want to go to..:confused: ..forgot who it was again...


It was Baltimore Colts. It was a better situation coming in. I'm not doggin' the guy though, I just think he needs a new start before he turns into a washed up QB that had all the tools without the instructions. Kubes in not gonna fix him in a season or two, so if it's a three year project, do you give him a 5-6 year extension in his last year of a 3 year ext despite the fact we haven't made the playoffs.

cadahnic
01-18-2006, 01:33 PM
It was the Colts, also in an ealier post in this thread they wanted Carr to head out of town. For whom then we pick Young or are stuck with Banks and Ragone until who Quinn comes out. Come on man, we have a top-flight QB right now, and you can ask any league expert and they would say the same thing. Hell the Raiders would trade for CArr right now if we let them. Al Davis feels that Carr would lead the team he has put together to SB Wins. I dont know about all that, but that should tell you something about Carr. Yes I restucture Carr's contract right now to something similar to Plummer's. If he proves he can play we pay the option and we have him at a competitive salary for 5-7years, if not then we dont and let him walk in 2.

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 01:35 PM
How many of you Carr bashing fans will be on his bandwagon next year if he starts winning?
I will, count me....

I, being of sound mind and judgement, am the first to say that he has made some bonehead decisions over the past few years. He hasn't however, been properly given the basic fundamental coaching one should receive when coming into the NFL from college. I do think that he will be a better QB next year under a new system/coaching regime. Hall of Famer....probably not, not even close, but give this kid another season to see what he is made of and I think we will all be presently suprised. I think David knows that this is a "do or die" year for him. The pressure is squarely on his shoulders and we'll see how he responds to it. He might have a Bree's type year and shut a lot of the screaming VY fans up. Either way we go, I think this will be a better team. Here's to 06'.....:twocents: :superman:

If we pass on Vince, I don't think you'll ever shut us Vince Supporters up... Unless he flops in the NFL.

But how can we go from:
Didn't we all witness what Carr can do when he has control of the play calling? Wasn't it something like 24 points in 1 half or quarter?
Even though he had the same offensive line in both halves
to:
He hasn't however, been properly given the basic fundamental coaching one should receive when coming into the NFL from college. I do think that he will be a better QB next year under a new system/coaching regime.

The First quote implies he has the skills and the talent necessary to get the job done, and yours says he needs to develop.

Kaiser Toro
01-18-2006, 01:36 PM
Elway took far more than 7 years to finally win the Super Bowl. Patience is key.

There was no cap when the Broncos took him. It was prudent at that time to spend the money on a talent and develop him. In today's age you need faster returns that is why I believe you take a QB on the rebound after he has been developed in someone elses program.

SBTexans08
01-18-2006, 01:38 PM
There was no cap when the Broncos took him. It was prudent at that time to spend the money on a talent and develop him. In today's age you need faster returns that is why I believe you take a QB on the rebound after he has been developed in someone elses program.
Excellent point there. :ok:

Vinny
01-18-2006, 01:41 PM
There was no cap when the Broncos took him. It was prudent at that time to spend the money on a talent and develop him. In today's age you need faster returns that is why I believe you take a QB on the rebound after he has been developed in someone elses program.It's not like Elway wasn't great during the 7 years it took him to win the big one. He carried that team when the team wasn't good enough. Without Elway they were just another team...with Elway they were playoff regulars before he won it all.

Grndzro
01-18-2006, 02:03 PM
Vinny - I agree with you about Elway, but was he ever on a team even nearly as bad talent wise and coaching as the texans. One can not assume that just because Elway is who he is that if he was on a team like the Texans that he would have never been the player he was. Sometimes people just get lucky and then there talent takes over, others are not and there talent is buried. Just a thought.

Hardcore Texan
01-18-2006, 02:05 PM
If so, then everyone that is Pro-Kubiak should be willing to give him time to work with Carr.

Kubiak's comment from his press briefing:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2333

(on David Carr) “I think, first off, he’s got tremendous ability. We all know he’s a great kid. Those are two things that you can’t ask for anything more. But then you’ve got to go to work. He’d be a joy to work with. He’s got some weapons around him to help make him better. Through a lot of hard work, there’s another level there for him to reach. But you couldn’t ask for a better kid to work with.”

Unless you think he is just blowing hot air for PR purposes shouldn't the Carr haters be a little less cutthroat since Kubiak thinks Carr has another level to reach? Unless they are better evaluators of talent than Kubiak.

Most (not all) posters are happy with Kubiak being the next HC (unofficially of course). So we should take him at his word and see what kind of results he can get out of Carr.

I guess if anyone out there is Anti-Kubiak and Anti-Carr, then you might want Carr gone regardless.

Kaiser Toro
01-18-2006, 02:19 PM
If so, then everyone that is Pro-Kubiak should be willing to give him time to work with Carr.

Kubiak's comment from his press briefing:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2333

(on David Carr) “I think, first off, he’s got tremendous ability. We all know he’s a great kid. Those are two things that you can’t ask for anything more. But then you’ve got to go to work. He’d be a joy to work with. He’s got some weapons around him to help make him better. Through a lot of hard work, there’s another level there for him to reach. But you couldn’t ask for a better kid to work with.”

Unless you think he is just blowing hot air for PR purposes shouldn't the Carr haters be a little less cutthroat since Kubiak thinks Carr has another level to reach? Unless they are better evaluators of talent than Kubiak.

Most (not all) posters are happy with Kubiak being the next HC (unofficially of course). So we should take him at his word and see what kind of results he can get out of Carr.

I guess if anyone out there is Anti-Kubiak and Anti-Carr, then you might want Carr gone regardless.

As a former coach, that is pure coachspeak. Moreover, that is coachspeak within the context of a post job interview. I like Kubiak and I think he, as most, see potential and a good guy in Carr.

bigTEXan8
01-18-2006, 02:35 PM
Here is the one thing that bothers me about Kubiak. Is it Kubiak that brought Plummer around, or is it Shannahan? I've heard plenty of times on ESPN that Shannahan is the one that helped Plummer. I hardly if never hear that Kubiak helped bring Plummer around. Now, I beg to God that someone has proof saying that Kubiak helped Plummer, further convincing me that Kubiak is going to be our next HC. I know Kubiak is the OC, and a good one at that.

TreWardTxn
01-18-2006, 03:33 PM
Here is the one thing that bothers me about Kubiak. Is it Kubiak that brought Plummer around, or is it Shannahan? I've heard plenty of times on ESPN that Shannahan is the one that helped Plummer. I hardly if never hear that Kubiak helped bring Plummer around. Now, I beg to God that someone has proof saying that Kubiak helped Plummer, further convincing me that Kubiak is going to be our next HC. I know Kubiak is the OC, and a good one at that.

It would be foolish to give all the credit for Plummer's success in Denver squarely to either Shannahan or Kubiak. However, I believe this dichotomy is most accurate. Kubiak would have been largely responsible for Plummer's mechanics and making sure he knows what to do within the context of each play. Shannahan it seems does do the bulk of the play calling and shares game-planning responisbility with Kubiak. Kubiak is Shanny's bird's eye view of the field, he understands how to adjust to what the defense is doing and likely gives the head coach potential plays that will work. The bottom line is, due to Shannahan's other personnel responisbilities involving the entire team, Plummer's development has been largely handled by Kubiak, as far as what he should be looking for in the defense and the objective of each play. On gameday though, it is the game design and play calling (which both coaches share, but it is most likely the HC has final say on) which has helped Jake cut mistakes and make better decisions...
Although this is far from "proof", it should be remembered that George Seifert gave Shannahan the responsibility of developing Steve Young, largely because he was too busy with front office details, and it is likely Shannahan kept this same system with Kubiak and Plummer...

thegr8fan
01-18-2006, 04:43 PM
(on David Carr) “I think, first off, he’s got tremendous ability. We all know he’s a great kid. Those are two things that you can’t ask for anything more. But then you’ve got to go to work. He’d be a joy to work with. He’s got some weapons around him to help make him better. Through a lot of hard work, there’s another level there for him to reach. But you couldn’t ask for a better kid to work with.”
this conversation is revealing in more ways than one. Biggest one to me, or in the form of a question, when does DC get to grow up and come out and play with the big boys? KID??? Is Kubiak talking about juvenile in attitude, development, potential attainment? Surely he can't be calling a 25+ yr. old MAN a kid, can he?

I'm with Kaiser on his reply. This is a Houston native, HC potential, candidate playing the correct cards during a POTENTIAL job interview. What did anyone expect him to say about DC, who is KNOWN to be a Bob McNair favorite KID.

bigTEXan8
01-18-2006, 04:58 PM
this conversation is revealing in more ways than one. Biggest one to me, or in the form of a question, when does DC get to grow up and come out and play with the big boys? KID??? Is Kubiak talking about juvenile in attitude, development, potential attainment? Surely he can't be calling a 25+ yr. old MAN a kid, can he?

I'm with Kaiser on his reply. This is a Houston native, HC potential, candidate playing the correct cards during a POTENTIAL job interview. What did anyone expect him to say about DC, who is KNOWN to be a Bob McNair favorite KID.

Kubiak is older than Carr. Sometimes coaches refer to players as kids, because they are younger. I think people may be reading a little too much into how he answered the question.

Mr. White
01-18-2006, 05:05 PM
Sounds to me like Kubiak just holding the party line after the interview....saying what he would think his new boss would want to hear. I doubt there's any more to it.

justtxyank
01-18-2006, 05:10 PM
Kubiak does the play calling in Denver. Shanahan and the players have all said it. He calls the plays and Shan has final word. Shan also calls 4th down plays.

Plummer has also been quoted as saying Kubes is who worked with him

chuckm
01-18-2006, 09:48 PM
Elway took far more than 7 years to finally win the Super Bowl. Patience is key.


patience and Terrell Davis

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 10:47 PM
For the record, Carr is not Elway, and Reggie isn't Terrell.

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 10:54 PM
If so, then everyone that is Pro-Kubiak should be willing to give him time to work with Carr.

Kubiak's comment from his press briefing:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2333

(on David Carr) “I think, first off, he’s got tremendous ability. We all know he’s a great kid. Those are two things that you can’t ask for anything more. But then you’ve got to go to work. He’d be a joy to work with. He’s got some weapons around him to help make him better. Through a lot of hard work, there’s another level there for him to reach. But you couldn’t ask for a better kid to work with.”

Unless you think he is just blowing hot air for PR purposes shouldn't the Carr haters be a little less cutthroat since Kubiak thinks Carr has another level to reach? Unless they are better evaluators of talent than Kubiak.

Most (not all) posters are happy with Kubiak being the next HC (unofficially of course). So we should take him at his word and see what kind of results he can get out of Carr.

I guess if anyone out there is Anti-Kubiak and Anti-Carr, then you might want Carr gone regardless.


I agree with everything Kubiak said.... Carr's got talent... So does Aaron Brooks, so does Joey Harrington, So does Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, John Kitna, etc.....

Sure Carr would be fun to work with...... pay me 1.5 million, and I'll enjoy working with TonyBanks.(what can I say, I'm cheap):homer:

And we know he's got weapons.

But he's a great kid........ not a strong leader...... great kid.

This has nothing to do with the Draft... has nothing to do with the prospect of Vince Young, and says nothing about what our QB situation is going to be next year.

I've been saying David is going to be a great QB on someone else's team. I think cutting him will be the catalyst that turns him around.

Tulip
01-18-2006, 11:29 PM
Elway took far more than 7 years to finally win the Super Bowl. Patience is key.

Sigh. First we compared David Carr to Peyton Manning. Now we're comparing him to one of the greatest football players of all time, a first-ballot hall of famer? Color me befuddled.

And Elway was considered one of the greatest ever before he won a Super Bowl. And in his fourth year, he led the Broncos to a comeback to win the AFC Championship.

I think 4 years is more than enough patience. I'd have been willing to give Carr the 5th year if there had been an option for just one more year instead of 2 or 3. But the way things are structured, his time is up for me.

Ibar_Harry
01-19-2006, 02:23 AM
I agree with everything Kubiak said.... Carr's got talent... So does Aaron Brooks, so does Joey Harrington, So does Quincy Carter, Anthony Wright, John Kitna, etc.....

Sure Carr would be fun to work with...... pay me 1.5 million, and I'll enjoy working with TonyBanks.(what can I say, I'm cheap):homer:

And we know he's got weapons.

But he's a great kid........ not a strong leader...... great kid.

This has nothing to do with the Draft... has nothing to do with the prospect of Vince Young, and says nothing about what our QB situation is going to be next year.

I've been saying David is going to be a great QB on someone else's team. I think cutting him will be the catalyst that turns him around.

What I find interesting is he is referring to him as a Kid, not a young adult nor an adult. Sounds to me like more of the same as in Capers. We need someone with maturity to make this team feel like they are a group of adults who can accomplish something and looks to gain their respect and input into what is wrong with this ball club. You see PM on the sideline involved in the decision making process. I would hope Carr is old enough to be called a man. The same is true of AJ, Gaffny, Mathis or any other player on this ball club.

Big B Texan Fan
01-19-2006, 11:28 AM
I think he has.
Of course you do, you want your 'boy to go #1. Just kidding Please clarify as to what you've seen he has done to prove he's been a leader on this team.

chuckm
01-19-2006, 11:30 AM
I was listening to Charlie Palillo yesterday and he had what I thought was a very good analogy .... he said that the Texans hired Carr and set him to work as a hospital would hire a neuro-surgeon and give him a butcher knife and ask him to operate ... or something to that effect .... anyway I don't always agree with the guy but even the biggest Carr hater couldn't completely disagree with that analogy .... but then again who knows?

Big B Texan Fan
01-19-2006, 11:34 AM
What is funny is that Jake had nothing to do with himself getting better?:spy:
The one thing he DID have to do was get to a different team. Do you think Denny Green could've ressurrected his career with being new in town and all the hiring and other things he had going on. If your answer is no, then there is no way Kubes will be able to do it right away (it'd take 3 years) cuz he's never been a coach before, Green has. On top of that tthe cordinators we get will pobably will will former line coaches themselves and they'll go through a learning curve and on top of that it'll be the first year these 3 spend together with their new positions, promotion from old position, new team, etc......

Carr will succeed when and if he goes to a different team that has leadership squarely in place.

Caphorn
01-19-2006, 11:39 AM
Shannahan it seems does do the bulk of the play calling and shares game-planning responisbility with Kubiak.

According to John McClain (OK don't shoot the messenger here), Shannahan only calls plays on 4th down. Weird, but apparently he is following along his sheet while Kubiak is making the calls. McClain says he verified this with Denver folks during the playoff game after the atrocious 4th and Goal call made by Denver. I think he wanted to make sure (as do I) that Kubiak didn't call for the fade route to the corner on 4th and Goal from the 2.

sangien
01-19-2006, 04:54 PM
I am a Texan fan first and formost. I do not like the way the team plays at times but it is my team. I do think there needs to be changes, but as long as they are on the team lets use facts and not opinions about the players. facst are like $#@holes we all have one. I think Young and bush are great players that can help us, I do not belive Bush is a everydown back and I think Young need a few years to get ready. So each have thier upside and down side. Don't bash the current players to justify drafting either, let ther abilities be the determining factor. P.S We need OL and DL morre than both positions but they are too good to pass up IMHO.

Tulip
01-19-2006, 07:40 PM
Don't bash the current players to justify drafting either, let ther abilities be the determining factor. P.S We need OL and DL morre than both positions but they are too good to pass up IMHO.

Because of the pending option deadline, there was going be intense David Carr discussion during the early part of the offseason regardless of the draft.

Big78
01-19-2006, 09:52 PM
Well that just shows how even the scouts go wrong we all knew carr would never make it in the NFL for the love of Life David isnt even the best QB to come out of fresno state and that is a sad thing to say. david is what you can really call a product of the system that had no chance in the NFL ala akili smith heath shuler tim couch. may be carr would of had a chance if he went to and established team to late now we wont ever know the kid is shot in the head. i just hope we can get something for him in a trade.
and i guess we will never know how u would have done as a writer because u couldnt make it because u never use any kind of punctuation i can't belive u turned that whole statement into just three sentences man i wish people would stop being @$$holes and stop being so negative we are stuck with him and so maybe we should talk about his strengths he is 26 for gosh sakes so he lost his cool a couple of times Bret Farve lost his in a game but no one said anything and hes one of the best ever in most peoples opinions man i wish i could use a comma but it had a bad year so i kicked it off the keyboard i guess ill just draft a younger one that costs 10 million dollars.:soapbox:

Wolf
01-20-2006, 08:02 PM
this conversation is revealing in more ways than one. Biggest one to me, or in the form of a question, when does DC get to grow up and come out and play with the big boys? KID??? Is Kubiak talking about juvenile in attitude, development, potential attainment? Surely he can't be calling a 25+ yr. old MAN a kid, can he?

I'm with Kaiser on his reply. This is a Houston native, HC potential, candidate playing the correct cards during a POTENTIAL job interview. What did anyone expect him to say about DC, who is KNOWN to be a Bob McNair favorite KID.


exactly

edo783
01-20-2006, 08:55 PM
Geeezzz, all this parsing of words and assigning of personal interpretations so that it fits the intrepeters wants an desires is rediculouse. Kubiak is in his 40s and to him someone in thier 20s is VERY likely thought of and refered to as a kid and that is all that it probebly is. There isn't some underlying subliminal message to the world about how he thinks about Carr.

thunderkyss
01-20-2006, 09:01 PM
and i guess we will never know how u would have done as a writer because u couldnt make it because u never use any kind of punctuation i can't belive u turned that whole statement into just three sentences man i wish people would stop being @$$holes and stop being so negative we are stuck with him and so maybe we should talk about his strengths he is 26 for gosh sakes so he lost his cool a couple of times Bret Farve lost his in a game but no one said anything and hes one of the best ever in most peoples opinions man i wish i could use a comma but it had a bad year so i kicked it off the keyboard i guess ill just draft a younger one that costs 10 million dollars.:soapbox:


That's one thing right their, one reason that we get this right, right now. We are not stuck with him, not now. As of today, we owe Carr nothing.. If we let him go, he walks. we owe him nothing.

Will David do better in another season, with a new coach, with a new OC, a new system?? We Honestly don't know. He should, but Joey Harrington should have got it done in Detroit. Ryan Leaf should have done it in SanDiego, or at least get the back up job in Dallas. He might do well, he might not. Should we pay him his salary this year?? Probably $3million + an $8million dollar bonus.
Or should we draft another prospect who may do just as well as Carr in the new system, and in the long run..... way better than your wildest Carr wet dream.

and it's not just one bad season. It's one good season out of four...

Wolf
01-20-2006, 09:03 PM
here is a 2001 scouting report

Date: Dec 29, 2001




SEPTEMBER SCOUTING REPORT

David Carr Fresno St 5Sr 6-3/230/4.85 #8

The Good: Nice sized passer effective in a variety of offensive schemes. Quick setting up in the pocket with good ball placement, shows decent footwork and patient, buying time for his receivers. Scans the field, goes through receiver progressions and has a nice sense of where his wide outs are. Quick setting and throwing off a three step drop. Nice overall release and arm strength; short and intermediate passes have zip, puts his deep passes out in front of wide outs and his throws immediately get to the intended target. Hits receivers in stride. Intelligent; does well with his reads, takes what the defense gives him and does not force his throws or make bad decisions. Stands in the pocket and takes a hit in order to get the throw off or gets to the outside and throws with proper mechanics on the move, losing nothing on his passes.

The Bad: Not always poised under pressure, does a lot of throwing off his back-foot or steps out of his throws. Places his passes nicely but lacks the pinpoint accuracy and must put more air under his deep throws.

The Skinny: Off to a blazing start in 2001 and could move way up the charts into the middle third of the initial round.



http://nfldraft.scout.com/2/30843.html

Napa Auto Parts
01-20-2006, 09:26 PM
and i guess we will never know how u would have done as a writer because u couldnt make it because u never use any kind of punctuation i can't belive u turned that whole statement into just three sentences man i wish people would stop being @$$holes and stop being so negative we are stuck with him and so maybe we should talk about his strengths he is 26 for gosh sakes so he lost his cool a couple of times Bret Farve lost his in a game but no one said anything and hes one of the best ever in most peoples opinions man i wish i could use a comma but it had a bad year so i kicked it off the keyboard i guess ill just draft a younger one that costs 10 million dollars.:soapbox:




Wrong we are not stuck with him should we make the same mistakes the browns did by picking Tim Couchs Option on his contract. just to cut him the next season we have all the makings for that and then it would really hurt us cap wise i just wish we had a time machine. so we could go back and draft Peppers instead of our Lemon. oh and here.,.;:'"'".,';< i hope thats enough :)

Tulip
01-20-2006, 09:52 PM
Matt Hasselbeck was on PTI today praising Julius Peppers, calling him the best player in the NFL. :stirpot:

Napa Auto Parts
01-21-2006, 02:39 AM
Matt Hasselbeck was on PTI today praising Julius Peppers, calling him the best player in the NFL. :stirpot:



And just think he could of been our franchise player:drool:

texan279
01-21-2006, 02:44 AM
Matt Hasselbeck was on PTI today praising Julius Peppers, calling him the best player in the NFL. :stirpot:

Best player in the NFL? Not sure about that one...Maybe Matt is just hoping Peppers gets wind of it and goes easy on him this weekend...:)