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Texan Gal 312
01-17-2006, 01:25 PM
Why are 99% of the threads on this board about offense. Did you see the Pittsburgh defense dismantle the "greatest show on turf"?
With a decent o-line coach, offensive coordinator and a free agent pickup or two our offense can be good enough to make the playoffs. Our defense is no where close. We need a defensive playmaker worse than anything else.
We need AJ Hawk. In all likely hood we can get him, another player (maybe abraham) and probably two other high draft choices. This should be a no brainer.

And, officially I am a Longhorn, but Vince is not what the Texans need. Put down the burnt orange glasses for a bit.

Runner
01-17-2006, 01:27 PM
Why are 99% of the threads on this board about offense. Did you see the Pittsburgh defense dismantle the "greatest show on turf"?


Pittsburgh does have an awesome 3-4 defense. Extremely disruptive. I want one!

eriadoc
01-17-2006, 01:36 PM
Well, we had the worst offense and the worst defense this season, so I guess you have to start somewhere. Given that the offensive line play was so absolutely horrid this year, I personally think that's where we'll get the greatest return. Fixing the O-line will enable the offense to stay on the field longer, which will keep the defense fresh and not put them in impossible situations. We also played one of the toughest schedules this year, facing the Colts and Jags twice, Seahawks, KC, Pittsburgh, and Cincinatti. Even the "easy" teams we faced had pretty decent offenses that we couldn't keep off the field (Rams, Cardinals, and even SF who scored against some good teams).

But yeah ... we need improvement on both sides of the field and it's pretty close to a tie as to where to start.

jerek
01-17-2006, 02:06 PM
I think it has to do with fantasy leagues, personally.

I would love for our defense to get a major overhaul. I don't even know if it's the players so much as Fangio's squandering of them. I think we have a lot more ability than we have indicated and we need to get a real DC to put the pieces together.

However, having not looked through this year's draft class enough, I can't really comment on who to bring in. At this point.

HJam72
01-17-2006, 02:07 PM
My priorities (or what they would be):

O-line (O-line is ALWAYS first)
TE (circumstantial need)
Defense
Defense
Defense
Defense...

HJam72
01-17-2006, 02:10 PM
I would say also say that in four years of play this team has never had descent pass protection. We've had a good defense, just not this year. People (including me) are sick of watching this swiss cheese O-line. It's partly a matter of wanting what we've never had before.

TEXANRED
01-17-2006, 02:15 PM
In my opinion we should go 4-3 sign abraham, trade our 2 and two 3rd round pick (and if we have to next years first) and get AJ Hawk. Also get some safties thru FA. Then we have ourselves a D.

But I dont see it happening.

Spoda
01-17-2006, 02:16 PM
everyone knows it..everyone sees it..the o-line is bad....it has been the worst of all time....our defense is also bad...why sharper? why? i digress...one scenario i see that might happen is this..we draft bush(please no!!) then 2nd round Pope is sitting there..so we take him...and once again try through free agency to pick up trash...i hope this doesn't happen..

TreWardTxn
01-17-2006, 02:22 PM
No true football fan will tell you that a team can win with a great offense and below average defense. I think all the talk about this years draft is focused on offense because there is no Casey Hampton or Peppers (close, but not quite...) in this years draft, and both Bush and Young combine talents and qualities that have not been witnessed in this generation, therefore, if you have the first pick, you've got to take one of them. The key for the texans is to make their 2nd-4th round picks matter...

Caphorn
01-17-2006, 02:45 PM
In an ideal world, you have a great defense coupled with a great, ball control offense. Right now the Texans have neither and they need wins. I can count wins they would have had this year with some semblance of an offense. I really think its a question of which one is further away from getting there. Right now the offense is so bad that it acts as a negative to your defense.

chall8
01-17-2006, 03:14 PM
TexanGal, great post.

I too am a Longhorn. As a fan, nothing would make me happier than to see Vince as QB.

That being said, Vince is really not what this team needs. Although I am NOT a David Carr fan (in terms of his ability to lead us to he promised land), I'm even LESS of a fan of our defense, which made the Texans virtually unwatchable this past season.

I too would like to see us get AJ Hawk (I really believe that guy is a "football player"), and also figure out a way to trade for Michael Huff (which by the way would appease Longhorn fans upset that we didn't get Vince).

Texan Gal 312
01-17-2006, 04:04 PM
I can count wins they would have had this year with some semblance of an offense. I really think its a question of which one is further away from getting there. Right now the offense is so bad that it acts as a negative to your defense.

You must have left the Rams game early. I stayed until the bitter end.
And pity the poor Bill's fans -- after the first game against the Texans they thought they had the second coming of Jim Kelly - NOT

In general the defense did nothing to help the offense out - I just don't see too many offenses driving 80 yards on a regular basis to score touchdowns.
Don't get wrong, our offense is offensive but I think it can be adequate. (for example the bears)

dat_boy_yec
01-17-2006, 04:08 PM
Seriously I think our D will be fine, but IF we do trade down and look for a defensive player assuming we stay in the 3-4 I would rather target Haloti Ngata, Payne is gettin on in yrs. and we would do well to get a great replacement. If we switch to 4-3 then Super Mario would be the guy I want. I'm sorry but Hawk just doesn't impress me, he isn't head and shoulders above everybody.

TheOgre
01-17-2006, 04:37 PM
The reasons that the offense is getting more attention:

1. The top few rated players in this draft are on the offensive side.
2. The strength of this draft appears to be at TE and on the line, our most blaring weaknesses on offense.
3. We do not yet know if we will have a 3-4 or 4-3. It is somewhat assumed we will go to a 4-3. If that is the case, it is not entirely clear what all we need and how players will perform in their new positions.
4. We mainly interviewed offensive coaches. It is clear that McNair wants that to be our initial emphasis.
5. Our offense seems to have a few "nice" pieces mixed with a lot of "horrible" ones. Our defense seems to have a ton of "about average" pieces with a couple of holes. It is easier to upgrade those "horrible" areas to "about average" than to upgrade "about average" ones. In other words, it seems far easier to upgrade our offense than our defense right now.

TreWardTxn
01-17-2006, 04:43 PM
TexanGal, great post.

I too am a Longhorn. As a fan, nothing would make me happier than to see Vince as QB.

That being said, Vince is really not what this team needs. Although I am NOT a David Carr fan (in terms of his ability to lead us to he promised land), I'm even LESS of a fan of our defense, which made the Texans virtually unwatchable this past season.

I too would like to see us get AJ Hawk (I really believe that guy is a "football player"), and also figure out a way to trade for Michael Huff (which by the way would appease Longhorn fans upset that we didn't get Vince).

Vince is exactly what this teams needs. If you play on a team in which everyone is bad, you need a guy who makes other players better. Receivers look better because they get extra time to get open when Vince sidesteps a defender to make a throw, or buys extra time in the backfield. Running backs look better because defenses don't know if on that play action boot if the QB will keep the ball and possibly beat everyone to the edge, wide open to either throw or run, this slows down the defense's pursuit to the ball just enough to get those extra yards. O-line looks better because the QB doesn't get thrown down every time they miss a block. The ability of your offense to pick up first downs offers the first relief for any bad defense, keep them off the field, and the number of plays they have to defend down. Of course this doesn't happen all next year, give it 2-3, but where do you want the franchise to be in 5-7-10 years? There are other guys in future drafts at LB and S that can run like hell, cover and hit. There is NO guy on the horizon with the
combined talents of running, throwing, and PROVEN leadership that Young gives you...
Oh, and offense is getting all the attention because we just hired an offensive coach, give 'em some new toys...

Caphorn
01-17-2006, 04:46 PM
You must have left the Rams game early. I stayed until the bitter end.
And pity the poor Bill's fans -- after the first game against the Texans they thought they had the second coming of Jim Kelly - NOT

In general the defense did nothing to help the offense out - I just don't see too many offenses driving 80 yards on a regular basis to score touchdowns.
Don't get wrong, our offense is offensive but I think it can be adequate. (for example the bears)

At least the Rams were a Top 10 offense (and playing on their favorite turf). As for Buffalo, how can you forget what world beaters we made out of Buffalo's defensive unit? Yes. We scored all of 7 pts against what turned out to be the 3rd or 4th worst defense in the league. Solid performance! Its funny but the list can go on and on for horrors this year. Actually it's not funny.

As to your original point, Chicago is an aberration and Indy's O was suspect at times against the right scheme. Chicago is the only truly poor offensive unit that made the playoffs this year. The rest do not find themselves in the bottom 5 and certainly not in the bottom 5 for Time of Possesson. You typically have to be able to eat clock at minimum with your offense.

I do admit that my thinking has more to do with the last 3 years than this past year when our D was flat. It seems to me though that we haven't even come close to putting together a passable offense in 3 years. That has to be rectified fast or you are not going to keep fans around.

chall8
01-17-2006, 05:09 PM
Vince is exactly what this teams needs. If you play on a team in which everyone is bad, you need a guy who makes other players better.

I don't disagree with you at all. This is exactly what I think Vince would do for this team. Everyone is saying he's a running QB or can't do this or that, but it's his intangibles that make him truly unique.

However, if the Texans want to win quickly then they need to focus on building the defense. Because as bad as our offense was last year, our defense was worse.

There is at least an argument to be made for sticking with Carr. Personally I think it's the wrong decision, but at the same time it's not a completely crazy notion. It's been proven many times over that you can win championships with a sub-mediocre QB and a stellar defense. Look no further than the Broncos and Colts this year.

Unfortunately there's not a soul on our defense right now who is feared by opposing teams. Dunta may be one day but he's still developing.

I want them to draft Vince, I hope they draft Vince, and build for the future. But if their goal is to win as quickly as possible (which it is) then they need to draft defense, NOT another RB.

Caphorn
01-17-2006, 05:24 PM
It's been proven many times over that you can win championships with a sub-mediocre QB and a stellar defense. Look no further than the Broncos and Colts this year.

I know you didn't mean Colts. Maybe the Bears. Either way, the Bears are out and the Broncs have yet to make it to a Championship game. You could throw in the Panthers though as well with a mediocre QB - although Jake has a way of showing up for the big games.

Good examples of Champions with a mediocre or journeymen QBs abound really. But I think most people would like to see a real shot taken here. Get a Tom Brady if you can with the No. 1 pick. I think the problem with Carr is that he's been the figurehead for a failing team and his laid back style doesn't go over so well when the team's effort looks poor. That and his confrontational style on the field - yelling at his WRs and getting in spats with defensive players. That's just poor leadership. He should aknowledge that he's had his head up his !ss at least. Maybe he has and I missed it. If he takes on the role of the scrappy journeyman (instead of the poor victim of his OLINE) then maybe I can compare him to those mediocre QBs of the past.

bigTEXan8
01-17-2006, 05:32 PM
My priorities (or what they would be):

O-line (O-line is ALWAYS first)
TE (circumstantial need)
Defense
Defense
Defense
Defense...

I totally concur. This is the exact way we should go.

chall8
01-17-2006, 06:42 PM
I know you didn't mean Colts.

My bad, I actually meant Steelers.

Caphorn, I couldn't agree more with what you're saying. This team is 2-14. Bottom-line is this is a rebuilding project no matter how you slice it. Why rebuild around a mediocre QB when you have this kind of guy coming out.

Unfortunately I have a bad feeling that the Texans are in love with Bush, which to me would be worse than NOT taking Young and focusing on defense.

ccdude730
01-17-2006, 06:51 PM
people would rather see a 42 45 OT thriller than a 13-16 OT thriller

greatest needs on defense are ILBs and a FS!

Wolf
01-17-2006, 07:31 PM
I have to go with the OL TE and defense..defense..defense.


we have weapons on offense, we just can't use them.

Defensively..DL ..2/3 are long in the tooth and we need to rebuild

ccdude730
01-17-2006, 07:43 PM
wolf, it would be smart, but realistically we dont have the luxury to rebuild 2/3 of our line right now.

TJ is going to be the replacement of walker (who has a really big contract) and payne is the best option at the NT position. it would be really difficult to find a suitable replacement (unless we can get ngata somehow this draft). and im assuming smith is your 1/3 that we can keep in place

run-david-run
01-17-2006, 07:44 PM
I know you didn't mean Colts. Maybe the Bears. Either way, the Bears are out and the Broncs have yet to make it to a Championship game. You could throw in the Panthers though as well with a mediocre QB - although Jake has a way of showing up for the big games.

Good examples of Champions with a mediocre or journeymen QBs abound really. But I think most people would like to see a real shot taken here. Get a Tom Brady if you can with the No. 1 pick. I think the problem with Carr is that he's been the figurehead for a failing team and his laid back style doesn't go over so well when the team's effort looks poor. That and his confrontational style on the field - yelling at his WRs and getting in spats with defensive players. That's just poor leadership. He should aknowledge that he's had his head up his !ss at least. Maybe he has and I missed it. If he takes on the role of the scrappy journeyman (instead of the poor victim of his OLINE) then maybe I can compare him to those mediocre QBs of the past.
There is nothing wrong with Carr arguing with his WR's. He is the leader of the team, if a receiver runs the wrong route, ussually Bradford, he should get an earfull from the QB. Even Manning and Brady are reknown for getting on their WR's. QB's have to demand perfection from their supporting cast, especially Carr...(no line)

Wolf
01-17-2006, 07:55 PM
wolf, it would be smart, but realistically we dont have the luxury to rebuild 2/3 of our line right now.

TJ is going to be the replacement of walker (who has a really big contract) and payne is the best option at the NT position. it would be really difficult to find a suitable replacement (unless we can get ngata somehow this draft). and im assuming smith is your 1/3 that we can keep in place

yes it would.. that is almost why I am hoping we trade down. if we could gain a a pick or two and (just say maybe a 2nd and 4th this year and maybe a 1st next (yes I am dreaming)) .. and get OL or DL with our 1st 2 picks .. with 2 or 3 to go in the 1st day to maybe work on a TE,#2 WR ,CB or whatever ...