PDA

View Full Version : Why Kubiak may not draft Bush


Dr. Toro
01-17-2006, 02:07 AM
Denver has Moneyballed the NFL with their running backs/system.

Terrell Davis (6th rd.)-
1995 (R) 14 gp, 1117 yds, 4.7 ypc
1996 16 gp, 1538 yds, 4.5 ypc
1997 15 gp, 1750 yds, 4.7 ypc
1998 16 gp, 2008 yds, 5.1 ypc

Olandis Gary(4th rd.)- 1999(R) 12 gp, 1159 yds, 4.2 ypc
Mike Anderson(6th rd.)-2000(R) 12 gs, 1487 yds, 5.0 ypc
Committee 2001- 16gp, 1877 yds, 3.9 ypc

Clinton Portis(2nd-51) -
2002 (R) 12 gs,1508 yds, 5.5 ypc
2003 13 gp,1591 yds, 5.5 ypc

Reuben Droughns(3rd)- 2004 15 gs, 1240 yds, 4.5 ypc
Mike Anderson(6th rd.)-2005 15 gp, 1014 yds, 4.2 ypc
Tatum Bell (2nd rd.) - 2005 14 gp, 921 yds, 5.3 ypc

The Broncos traded Clinton Portis for Champ Bailey and a second round pick, which they used to draft Tatum Bell.

The Broncos traded Reuben Droughns for Ebenezer Ekuban and Michael Myers. Myers is a starter, and Ekuban contributed as a backup. They ran better this year without Droughns.

Both running backs were dealt after money issues came up. In short, Denver keeps drafting RBs low, making them dominant rushers, and flipping them to hungry NFL teams when their price tags rise/when they open their mouths.

EDIT: tried to make the stats more manageable.

thetexanator
01-17-2006, 02:35 AM
i dont think kubiak is going to have much weight on the 1st pick in the draft.

Grid
01-17-2006, 02:41 AM
I think he is gonna have more weight than Casserly. I think the first pick will probably be decided by Kubiak.. and approved by McNair and Reeves.. and Casserly will get the privilege of saying "hey thats just what I was gonna do!"

Big B Texan Fan
01-17-2006, 04:05 AM
I think he is gonna have more weight than Casserly. I think the first pick will probably be decided by Kubiak.. and approved by McNair and Reeves.. and Casserly will get the privilege of saying "hey thats just what I was gonna do!"
Things you might hear Cass say on Draft day #1:
is that 1 lump or 2 mr reeves
mr kubiak may i plz have my chair back
uh mr mcnair, why is reeves and kubiak ignoring me
(whispering) hey dave, i cannot talk long but i'm doing the best i can, be sure to turn off your tv
i used to coach
i bet the titans will do a trade
what was the grade that the raiders gave that cb
who's hair looks better, mine or kiper jrs
if you guys are lookin' for a good qb, check out the wac conference
where is snyders ph #
uh mr mcnair, i'm not really sure whos car it is but i think kubiak parked in my spot
:stirpot:

Texan in Japan
01-17-2006, 08:40 AM
Things you might hear Cass say on Draft day #1:
is that 1 lump or 2 mr reeves
mr kubiak may i plz have my chair back
uh mr mcnair, why is reeves and kubiak ignoring me
(whispering) hey dave, i cannot talk long but i'm doing the best i can, be sure to turn off your tv
i used to coach
i bet the titans will do a trade
what was the grade that the raiders gave that cb
who's hair looks better, mine or kiper jrs
if you guys are lookin' for a good qb, check out the wac conference
where is snyders ph #
uh mr mcnair, i'm not really sure whos car it is but i think kubiak parked in my spot
:stirpot:

Nice!

Wharton
01-17-2006, 08:47 AM
Things you might hear Cass say on Draft day #1:

:rofl: Now thats funny

One reason Denver keeps rolling running back is due to the short life span of a back in the NFL. While some backs, like Bettis can endure for years most don't last. They keep young, fresh leg around all the time.

Jack Bauer
01-17-2006, 10:11 AM
In short, Denver keeps drafting RBs low

Since when is taking a RB in the second round drafting RBs low? Just because they haven't recently drafted a RB in the first round does not mean they do not value the top prospect in the entire draft.

As an FYI, here are the last number one RB by team:

AFC East
Buffalo: Willis McGahee 2003
Miami: Ronnie Brown 2005
New England: Robert Edwards 1998
NY Jets: Blair Thomas 1990

AFC North
Baltimore: Jamal Lewis 2000
Cincinnati: Chris Perry 2004
Cleveland: William Green 2002
Pittsburgh: Tim Worley 1989

AFC South
Houston: NONE
Indianapolis: Edgerrin James 1999
Jacksonville: Fred Taylor 1998
Tennessee: Eddie George 1996

AFC West
Denver: Steve Sewell 1985
Kansas City: Larry Johnson 2003
Oakland: Napoleon Kaufman 1995
San Diego: LaDainian Tomlinson 2001

NFC East
Dallas: Emmitt Smith 1990
NY Giants: Ron Dayne 2000
Philadelphia: Keith Byars 1986
Washington: Charley Taylor 1964 WOW!

NFC North
Chicago: Cedric Benson 2005
Detroit: Kevin Jones 2004
Green Bay: Darrell Thompson 1990
Minnesota: Michael Bennett 2001

NFC South
Atlanta: T.J. Duckett 2002
Carolina: Tim Biakabatuka 1996
New Orleans: Deuce McAllister 2001
Tampa Bay: Carnell "Cadillac" Williams 2005

NFC West
Arizona: Thomas Jones 2000
St. Louis: Steven Jackson 2004
San Francisco: William Floyd (FB) 1994
Seattle: Shaun Alexander 2000


It is hard to believe that the Redskins have not drafted a RB in the first round since 1964!! The caveat here is that Washington did NOT have a first round pick in 19 drafts from 1969 to 1990 (a total of 22 drafts).

MorKnolle
01-17-2006, 10:14 AM
I have pointed this out a couple different times, and while starting your head coaching career with a RB like Reggie Bush could be very enticing, I think he'll discover that he can have the same type of success running the ball with Davis/Morency/Wells and all four of those RBs are similar to guys he's recently coached (Domanick Davis is like a less durable Terrell Davis, Jonathan Wells could be like Mike Anderson, Vernand Morency is similar to Olandis Gary, and Reggie Bush would be the next Tatum Bell for him). On the same note, if this thread was meant to imply that he'll draft Vince Young instead of Reggie, I am going to have to disagree because the Broncos have used even fewer picks on QBs and he has already said he likes David Carr and he thinks he can turn into a very good QB, so if anything I think Kubiak will be more inclined to want to trade down and look to fix up the OLine and defense.

Nice work on your post Zephyr.

humbleone
01-17-2006, 10:55 AM
I have pointed this out a couple different times, and while starting your head coaching career with a RB like Reggie Bush could be very enticing, I think he'll discover that he can have the same type of success running the ball with Davis/Morency/Wells and all four of those RBs are similar to guys he's recently coached (Domanick Davis is like a less durable Terrell Davis, Jonathan Wells could be like Mike Anderson, Vernand Morency is similar to Olandis Gary, and Reggie Bush would be the next Tatum Bell for him). On the same note, if this thread was meant to imply that he'll draft Vince Young instead of Reggie, I am going to have to disagree because the Broncos have used even fewer picks on QBs and he has already said he likes David Carr and he thinks he can turn into a very good QB, so if anything I think Kubiak will be more inclined to want to trade down and look to fix up the OLine and defense.

Nice work on your post Zephyr.

That would be the best move IMO and I am hoping that he and McNair will be strong enough to do just that in the face of all the media hype over Bush and Young. The only thing that scares me is why he kept CC if he was going to deal the pick probably...does not seem to add up.

Big B Texan Fan
01-17-2006, 10:55 AM
Since when is taking a RB in the second round drafting RBs low? Just because they haven't recently drafted a RB in the first round does not mean they do not value the top prospect in the entire draft.

As an FYI, here are the last number one RB by team:

AFC East
Buffalo: Willis McGahee 2003
Miami: Ronnie Brown 2005
New England: Robert Edwards 1998
NY Jets: Blair Thomas 1990

AFC North
Baltimore: Jamal Lewis 2000
Cincinnati: Chris Perry 2004
Cleveland: William Green 2002
Pittsburgh: Tim Worley 1989

AFC South
Houston: NONE
Indianapolis: Edgerrin James 1999
Jacksonville: Fred Taylor 1998
Tennessee: Eddie George 1996

AFC West
Denver: Steve Sewell 1985
Kansas City: Larry Johnson 2003
Oakland: Napoleon Kaufman 1995
San Diego: LaDainian Tomlinson 2001

NFC East
Dallas: Emmitt Smith 1990
NY Giants: Ron Dayne 2000
Philadelphia: Keith Byars 1986
Washington: Charley Taylor 1964 WOW!

NFC North
Chicago: Cedric Benson 2005
Detroit: Kevin Jones 2004
Green Bay: Darrell Thompson 1990
Minnesota: Michael Bennett 2001

NFC South
Atlanta: T.J. Duckett 2002
Carolina: Tim Biakabatuka 1996
New Orleans: Deuce McAllister 2001
Tampa Bay: Carnell "Cadillac" Williams 2005

NFC West
Arizona: Thomas Jones 2000
St. Louis: Steven Jackson 2004
San Francisco: William Floyd (FB) 1994
Seattle: Shaun Alexander 2000


It is hard to believe that the Redskins have not drafted a RB in the first round since 1964!! The caveat here is that Washington did NOT have a first round pick in 19 drafts from 1969 to 1990 (a total of 22 drafts).
32 teams and I only see about 2 or 3 of those RB's made it to the SB.

We don't need Bush

Jack Bauer
01-17-2006, 12:09 PM
Edit: Nevermind.

jerek
01-17-2006, 01:06 PM
I and others have been saying this for weeks. Thanks for doing the statistical research for us. I think Bush would be an asset for Kubiak, but I think the guy has proven he can run with whoever. Denver has a talented O-line for sure, but you have to respect Kubiak's system and his ability to get the job done. That kind of consistency speaks volumes of his abilities as a coach.

Glacier
01-17-2006, 03:39 PM
That kind of consistency speaks volumes of his abilities as a coach.


True true.....so again, why waste the first pick on a runner? There are quality runners in Houston already.

Daonly
01-17-2006, 03:49 PM
True true.....so again, why waste the first pick on a runner? There are quality runners in Houston already.


It takes more than somone putting up a 1000 yard season;It takes someone with the will to win.Reggie Bush has the beast hands of any running back in this draft. He can go into motion;Play slot, draw the attention off the QB, which means one less pass rushing LB or one on one coverage somewhere else.

Also if Denver can do that with those running backs; Surely he can have a wonderful time creating and offense around Reggie Bush. The Highest Rated Prospect since John Elway.. Hmmmmm makes you wonder. Also Giles,Scott, or The Center from Wisconsin Would be locked to be there top of the second. Texans are going to be in great Shape next year! :redtowel:

MorKnolle
01-17-2006, 03:50 PM
True true.....so again, why waste the first pick on a runner? There are quality runners in Houston already.

Ricky did go at #5 but he was the only pick they had that whole draft because Ditka traded off everything else in order to get him.

7thsign
01-17-2006, 06:04 PM
Also anouther good reason not to go with Bush,

Anyone notice when he played teams with speed, he couldnt get to the outside. he cant run up the middle. he just isn't big enouph for it. He got outside on texas once. Once he goes to the NFL he wont be able to get to the outside. There are very few backs that make threir livings going outside the tackels.


As for Vince. If Houston doesn't take him I'd be very disapointed. Anyone that has followed his career know how much of a winner he is... He just doesn't ever give up...

If houston takes Vince.... They will have everyone in Austin become Texan fans....

C Madd
01-17-2006, 06:20 PM
As for Vince. If Houston doesn't take him I'd be very disapointed. Anyone that has followed his career know how much of a winner he is... He just doesn't ever give up...

Didn't Reggie Bush only lose 2 games in the 39 games he was at USC? Guess he's a winner, too, and I also bet he never gives up.

C Madd
01-17-2006, 06:27 PM
I and others have been saying this for weeks. Thanks for doing the statistical research for us. I think Bush would be an asset for Kubiak, but I think the guy has proven he can run with whoever. Denver has a talented O-line for sure, but you have to respect Kubiak's system and his ability to get the job done. That kind of consistency speaks volumes of his abilities as a coach.
It's exciting to hear about the probable hiring of Kubiak after seeing what his system has done for the Broncos. Hopefully, this is what will help keep Carr on his feet and open holes for Davis and/or possibly Reggie Bush if we take him like everyone is reporting.

MikeMc
01-17-2006, 06:30 PM
.Reggie Bush has the beast hands of any running back in this draft.

Really??? How do you figure that? Any idea who Wali Lundy is? If not, then do not go around saying RB has the beast hands in this draft.

The reason Young has won is because he has been on good teams. Think the Horns can't win with Nordgren or Mock?? There are more reasons why a team wins than by saying it is because of one player (Football is the one sport that must have a solid team...unlike basketball or baseball where one player can control everything).

I give VY his props, but I do not want the Texans to draft either of the two (VY or RB)......the RB & QB spot is not the place to look to when figuring out the problem.....it lies with the DL & OL. Maybe Cass will realize he needs to listen to his scouts and draft players that will help build the team...not trade the picks for other teams scraps (see PBuch!).

7thsign
01-17-2006, 07:31 PM
I cant wait in 10 years when they are reflecting back on this draft.... Who ever took VY is going to look like awesome....

It's also a money game... what talent is going to bring more fans? VY or Bush...

Untamed Guerillaz
01-17-2006, 08:24 PM
hey, 7thsign man i totally agree with you man VY will bring them running and the texans will be getting a whole lot of publicity b/c the man will change the gamea swe know ....just watch people......and wake up people

run-david-run
01-17-2006, 09:03 PM
Also anouther good reason not to go with Bush,

Anyone notice when he played teams with speed, he couldnt get to the outside. he cant run up the middle. he just isn't big enouph for it. He got outside on texas once. Once he goes to the NFL he wont be able to get to the outside. There are very few backs that make threir livings going outside the tackels.


As for Vince. If Houston doesn't take him I'd be very disapointed. Anyone that has followed his career know how much of a winner he is... He just doesn't ever give up...

If houston takes Vince.... They will have everyone in Austin become Texan fans....
Can you guys please stop bashing Bush and saying take VY because he is a "winner"? Bush lost a whole 1 game in his college career!!! Whoopee!!! Gues what, it dosnt matter how many games you won in college if you are going to be sacked after 2 seconds or met behind the line every other play...get some LINEMEN!!!!

C Madd
01-17-2006, 10:11 PM
hey, 7thsign man i totally agree with you man VY will bring them running and the texans will be getting a whole lot of publicity b/c the man will change the gamea swe know ....just watch people......and wake up people
People said the same about Michael Vick. The truth is, no one knows how Vince Young will do. He's never played a NFL game. He may end up being great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

MikeMc
01-18-2006, 12:47 AM
It's also a money game... what talent is going to bring more fans? VY or Bush...

Yes it is a money game....and winning puts people in the seats.....which translates to $$$. Jersey sales do not help as much as a filled stadium.

Do you think that all of the UT fans will start going to the Texans games because of VY (if he gets picked by HOU)??? Doubt it! If they are losing, then you will see a repeat of 2005.

Do you think UT fans will not support the Texans if Cass does not draft VY?? Doubt it, unless they are losing.....UT fans only support winning teams.

This debate has been more ridiculous that the Texans 2003 #1 pick....Joey/David/Julius/Bryant...... oh the good ole days of the original Houston Texans.com MB!!

thunderkyss
01-18-2006, 01:20 AM
Yes it is a money game....and winning puts people in the seats.....which translates to $$$. Jersey sales do not help as much as a filled stadium.

Do you think that all of the UT fans will start going to the Texans games because of VY (if he gets picked by HOU)??? Doubt it! If they are losing, then you will see a repeat of 2005.

Do you think UT fans will not support the Texans if Cass does not draft VY?? Doubt it, unless they are losing.....UT fans only support winning teams.

This debate has been more ridiculous that the Texans 2003 #1 pick....Joey/David/Julius/Bryant...... oh the good ole days of the original Houston Texans.com MB!!

Let Michael Vick come to Reliant Stadium......... You'll see more Vick Jerseys than Carr jerseys.... There will be people there you ain't never seen. There will be people there, to see Michael Vick. This will happen in Dallas, Carolina, SanFrancisco, Even Greenbay, but not as much as it will in Atlanta.

And it will be easier for Kubiak his first year as Head coach to finish less than .500 if he signed the Hometown Kid.

Do the best you can in Free Agency... put Carr on a summer tutoring program... draft Reggie Bush, it doesn't matter, there is nothing we can do to gaurantee that we will have a winning season next year.

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 10:28 AM
In case no one here tried last year, tickets were still sold out for every game. I could not get any tickets thru the box office when I tried and last I checked there was an 8-9 year waiting list for season tickets, so it's not like they're not in high demand here. If we don't draft Vince it's not going to suddenly make all of those people that were buying tickets and that are waiting in line for season tickets suddenly change their minds, the stadium is not going to be empty unless people do like this year and buy tickets and decide not to show up just to show their displeasure, and if that's the case the team will still be earning money off of ticket sales. The Texans do not need to draft Vince Young (or Reggie Bush for that manner) to get people to buy tickets and fill the stadium, all they have to do is win games. Selling a little extra merchandise that's just going to be thrown back in the NFL shared revenue pool and split among all the teams isn't going to add much more revenue to the team anyways, and bottom line, five years from now no one is going to care if we made an offseason move and sold a few more jerseys, all they will remember is how the team has performed on the field and what our won/loss record is, and the team is going to make the decision that they feel is best for the success of our team on the field, which should lead to being best in their bank account too.

7thsign
01-18-2006, 01:50 PM
People said the same about Michael Vick. The truth is, no one knows how Vince Young will do. He's never played a NFL game. He may end up being great, but let's not get ahead of ourselves here.

Yes people did say the same thing about Vick... I think his team, and the money he pulls in for his team.. is better than what Bush and Carr can do.