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yaboycm
01-17-2006, 12:29 AM
The Denver Broncos have been what for the last decade? A running back factory! That team has been able to turn numerous mid-round draft picks into very productive backs. Terrell Davis was a sixth round pick! Mike Anderson, Portis, Droughns, Tatum Bell, etc, etc. Why would you draft a running back with the first pick for this system. I say keep Davis, Wells is your change of pace big back, Morency is your back up for Davis.

DRAFT VINCE YOUNG!!!

DAVID CARR IS NO GOOD. HE SEES THE FIELD THROUGH A PAPER TOWEL ROLL.

VINCE IS A PROVEN LEADER AND WINNER. HE IS THE DOUBLE THREAT THAT OFFENSIVE COORDINATORS DREAM OF HAVING AND DEFENSIVE COORDINATORS HAVE NIGHTMARES ABOUT STOPPING.

Carr Bombed
01-17-2006, 12:34 AM
YES, what took so long! I've been waiting for another Vince Young thread

Big B Texan Fan
01-17-2006, 12:42 AM
Bush on a team with a steer and horns on the helmet?
Vinces' logo (Saints) was used as an identifier on sheilds and flags back in early Roman times?

Bush steals the Heisman and Hometown from Vince?
Vince on a team that could quite possibly be in LA in a season or two?

Too much irony, i like none of it?

Draft Vince, let leinert be the face of the Saints resurrection as they move to LA and become the Los Angeles Earthquakes or something and Bush gets reunited with Norm Chow as the search for a RB ends for the Titans as they were unsuccessful with their guys this past season.

Fiddy
01-17-2006, 12:50 AM
To elaborate on the RB factory thing. It's a good point. Kubiak is bringing Shanny's system and philosophy, right??? Where in Shanny's system does it say draft a RB high when you get great production out of any back you put in there???

The Broncos had 2000 yards rushing between Anderson and Bell. If Bush get's 15 carries a game, averages a generous 5 yards a carry and plays all 16 games, then that comes to 1200 rushing yards. And of course, Davis will get carries to put that total up near 2000, but why do want to get 2000 yards with a 4th rounder and a 1st overall when you could get it with a 4th rounder and a 3rd rounder (Morency would thrive in the Denver system)???

Why not take a QB at #1 that will touch the ball every play and can make plays and lead a team instead of taking a running back #1 when you can get that type of production at a much cheaper price?

yaboycm
01-17-2006, 01:04 AM
To elaborate on the RB factory thing. It's a good point. Kubiak is bringing Shanny's system and philosophy, right??? Where in Shanny's system does it say draft a RB high when you get great production out of any back you put in there???

The Broncos had 2000 yards rushing between Anderson and Bell. If Bush get's 15 carries a game, averages a generous 5 yards a carry and plays all 16 games, then that comes to 1200 rushing yards. And of course, Davis will get carries to put that total up near 2000, but why do want to get 2000 yards with a 4th rounder and a 1st overall when you could get it with a 4th rounder and a 3rd rounder (Morency would thrive in the Denver system)???

Why not take a QB at #1 that will touch the ball every play and can make plays and lead a team instead of taking a running back #1 when you can get that type of production at a much cheaper price?

Nice addition.

Big B Texan Fan
01-17-2006, 01:18 AM
To elaborate on the RB factory thing. It's a good point. Kubiak is bringing Shanny's system and philosophy, right??? Where in Shanny's system does it say draft a RB high when you get great production out of any back you put in there???

The Broncos had 2000 yards rushing between Anderson and Bell. If Bush get's 15 carries a game, averages a generous 5 yards a carry and plays all 16 games, then that comes to 1200 rushing yards. And of course, Davis will get carries to put that total up near 2000, but why do want to get 2000 yards with a 4th rounder and a 1st overall when you could get it with a 4th rounder and a 3rd rounder (Morency would thrive in the Denver system)???

Why not take a QB at #1 that will touch the ball every play and can make plays and lead a team instead of taking a running back #1 when you can get that type of production at a much cheaper price?
Word

FirstTexansFan
01-17-2006, 01:25 AM
Why not pass on both? Oh the world through orange glasses sure clouds the minds of most, I refuse to drink the KoolAid personally :)

jacquescas
01-17-2006, 01:25 AM
at least the trade down threads can have some difference, i'm just soo tired of them i want april to come so fast.

LBblitz
01-17-2006, 01:26 AM
I think that if we DO use the 1st overall pick I want Bush, if not, trade back to get hawk at LB (i wanted DJ last year too) and shore up the OL/DL. Like fiddy said, we can get the same production out of the RBs we have now. Why dont we address our needs?

jacquescas
01-17-2006, 01:27 AM
also if you look at the denver system they also have a QB they didn't draft high, plummer was falling out of favor in Arizona and Kubiak turned him around, he will try the same thing with Carr...

If you look at denvers system they have highly athletic offensive lineman that are all around 280-300lbs none really over 300lbs. so D'Brickshaw Furgeson makes the most sense according to the scheme denver runs. Obviously a trade down would be in order.

LBblitz
01-17-2006, 01:31 AM
right now I am still split on who i would like if we traded down, hawk or D'Brick

LBblitz
01-17-2006, 01:33 AM
IF we do get D'Brick, I would be fine with waiting untill next year to draft the LB from Penn St.

HardKnockTexan
01-17-2006, 01:37 AM
If Kubiac sees Carr as a functioning NFL QB with potential to grow; as Davis as a very productive NFL runningback that, if healthy, could easily thrive in his system; and Morency as a very suitable sub for Davis, then wouldnt it make more sense to trade out of the top spot? Having a player like Young or Bush on our team is something that dreams are made of for football fans. With that being said I cant remember the last player with that much hype that has actually won a championship. Ledanlian Tomlinson hasnt gotten a ring yet. Same goes for Peyton Manning, Mike Vick, Ricky Williams, Terrel Owens, Randy Moss, Donavan McNabb or Danta Cullpepper. Tom Brady is the only superstar on the offensive side of the ball that I can think of that won a championship. The championship winning superstars on the defensive side of theball seem to stand out to me a lot more.... but maybe that's just me.

The most I can hope for is that solid football people are making the decissions. I've always had faith in this team and even with the rough season no love has been lost for them from me. So if it makes more sence for our team to trade down, as hard as it would be to see, then I say go for it.

Good luck to Vince and Reggie... hello Furguson and many.. many other picks.

CoastalTexan
01-17-2006, 01:42 AM
Why not instead of replacing a quality QB with a rookie QB, get an elite pass rusher? super mario would create plays on defense in which we wouldn't normally have. Or protect our Qb with an elite LT to create plays on offense which we dont have. Why replace quality players with questionable ones when we could improve our weaknesses? i dont really know, i guess an elite LT or an agressive pass rusher are not exciting enough. the UT homers especially should know that a dominant defense and offensive line are mandatory.

Nighthawk
01-17-2006, 01:50 AM
If Kubiac sees Carr as a functioning NFL QB with potential to grow; as Davis as a very productive NFL runningback that, if healthy, could easily thrive in his system; and Morency as a very suitable sub for Davis, then wouldnt it make more sense to trade out of the top spot? Having a player like Young or Bush on our team is something that dreams are made of for football fans. With that being said I cant remember the last player with that much hype that has actually won a championship. Ledanlian Tomlinson hasnt gotten a ring yet. Same goes for Peyton Manning, Mike Vick, Ricky Williams, Terrel Owens, Randy Moss, Donavan McNabb or Danta Cullpepper. Tom Brady is the only superstar on the offensive side of the ball that I can think of that won a championship. The championship winning superstars on the defensive side of theball seem to stand out to me a lot more.... but maybe that's just me.

The most I can hope for is that solid football people are making the decissions. I've always had faith in this team and even with the rough season no love has been lost for them from me. So if it makes more sence for our team to trade down, as hard as it would be to see, then I say go for it.

Good luck to Vince and Reggie... hello Furguson and many.. many other picks.

The problem with this thought is that it assumes if you draft Vince your draft is over, but that's silly. Even if you keep Carr (I would not) you've got the rest of the draft to build the rest of your team. If you trade Carr, you've got maybe 5 picks in the first three rounds, and they're all good picks (low).

Vince is THE FUTURE OF THE FRANCHISE, you don't want to let him slip through your hands.

HardKnockTexan
01-17-2006, 01:59 AM
Vince is THE FUTURE OF THE FRANCHISE, you don't want to let him slip through your hands.[/QUOTE]

The last big time QB to come out of a Texas college that I can think of is Andre Ware. I was young but I remember watching some of his hismen winning games. One time Ware and the Coogs finished the game with a score in the 90's. That definentally didnt work out for the Lions.

I love Vince Young. I watched nearly all of Texas's games this year and he rarley dissapointed. The Rose Bowl was a game for the history books and his performance was the Jewel of the best game maybe ever. But what if he flops? We'd be stuck in a hole with no where to go for years. Carr has proven that with time he can get the job done. No he's not consistant but he does have flashes that make me think that he can get the job done in this league. With a functioning NFL QB, which I believe Carr is, then the potential for the team is unlimited.

I wont be disapointed with any way they go untill I see the onfield product. If we get Vince and I see a dramactic improvement in our team then I'll be satsified. Same goes for Reggie and trading down. Whatever produces the most on field results is what I want us to do. I dont care if we have a superstar on our team as long as we're winning football games.

TMac48
01-17-2006, 03:29 AM
DAVID CARR IS NO GOOD. HE SEES THE FIELD THROUGH A PAPER TOWEL ROLL.
I think somebody's been playing a little to much Madden...

Big B Texan Fan
01-17-2006, 03:40 AM
also if you look at the denver system they also have a QB they didn't draft high, plummer was falling out of favor in Arizona and Kubiak turned him around, he will try the same thing with Carr....

That's like lightning striking the same place twice. Highly unlikely. You think Kubes can just walk into a town and request your poor, beaten down QB. Then in a season or 2 lead them to a deep playoff run or maybe yet a championship.

Steve Marriucci inhereted a top flight, highly scouted, top 3 draft pick QB and he couldn't get him turned around. And it got him fired, well maybe not just that reason but the team usually goes as the QB goes.

Coughlin came in and got rid of his QB (a former capers' guy) and went out and got his QB. Jumped through hoops to make it happen. Is Eli a higher rated QB than VY? Is leinert this years Rivers.

Crenell had a gun slingin' QB but brought in Dilfer to hold down the fort for a while until the kid from Akron gets the nod. He did get a start or two this season right.

Jack Del Rio got himself a QB rght away. They're a pretty solid team. But their pocket QB has no scramblin' ability and keeps getting hurt as well as their RB (someone who bush may resemble if he's not a bust) keeps getting hurt season after season because he's not a disciplined runner and gets popped on the norm

One of Jeff Fishers' 1st years he took a QB. And let him watch and learn for 2 years. Then when Air McNair got going he was anything but Air but rather noticed for his geat escapability 1st, pocket prowess 2nd.

Was Marvin Lewis' 1st player to draft Palmer? That seems to have worked out pretty good huh?

How long was it after Andy Reid showed up in Philly did he draft McNabb?

I don't think Fox was around when Weinke was taken but it did not take long until he was replaced with Delhomme

Lovie Smith takes Sexy Rexy (i think he was a 1st rd guy)

Mularky takes Losman

Holmgren gets to Seattle and brings in someone he knows

Nolan takes Smith #1 overall

My point is new coaches or old coaches in a new city usually don't want someone elses re-treads.

I just don't want Kubes to end up like Mooch.

touttail
01-17-2006, 07:25 AM
To elaborate on the RB factory thing. It's a good point. Kubiak is bringing Shanny's system and philosophy, right??? Where in Shanny's system does it say draft a RB high when you get great production out of any back you put in there???

The Broncos had 2000 yards rushing between Anderson and Bell. If Bush get's 15 carries a game, averages a generous 5 yards a carry and plays all 16 games, then that comes to 1200 rushing yards. And of course, Davis will get carries to put that total up near 2000, but why do want to get 2000 yards with a 4th rounder and a 1st overall when you could get it with a 4th rounder and a 3rd rounder (Morency would thrive in the Denver system)???

Why not take a QB at #1 that will touch the ball every play and can make plays and lead a team instead of taking a running back #1 when you can get that type of production at a much cheaper price?


Denver always has a great offensive line, year in and year out.

Bobby 119C

Spoda
01-17-2006, 08:24 AM
[ Why dont we address our needs?[/QUOTE]



what do you mean?? we have been drafting lineman in the first couple of rounds every season since everyone in the world knew we needed o-line...haven't we? it was just a bad dream that we have drafted 4 RB's and 4 QB's in 4 years...we are so good our first rounder last year is a backup..we have no needs..casserly has done such a great job amassing talent he was able to keep his job after a 2-14 season

whiskeyrbl
01-17-2006, 08:38 AM
Just a question here,i work alot on weekends and did not get to watch alot of texas' games,i did however go to the big12 championship game.My question is has Vince ever run a pro type offense?Not once in the big 12championship was he under center and was not in the national championsip game.Or do you think Kubes will run a spread option offense if they draft him?:brickwall

Spoda
01-17-2006, 09:02 AM
yes VY has run a pro style offense..texas decided to make young be an under the center guy..but it didn't work...so the released him and he flourished..so no there is no evidence that he can play a pro style..nor is there evidense he definately can't..but there is evidence in these threads that we will be in the superbowl possibly next year because he is all we need..he is a can't miss no doubter...he will probably even play corner or perhaps SS...i can't wait til week one when our line crumbles but he jukes all 5 passrushers lobs the ball to the pylon, where he is standing there..out jumps everyone and scores..man that will be sweet

outofhnd
01-17-2006, 09:08 AM
I really have no idea I mean we might draft Bush. In denver they have prided themselves on the 2 headed monster rushing attack the last year or 2 with Mike anderson and Tatum bell splittin time... here it would be Wells and Bush playing that role... We have quality at each of those positions yes, but with quite a few good running backs and a few top notch QBs also coming out this year it would be hard for us to find someone that is willing to make a deal with us for the 1st overall pick... Maybe we can get some late round gems on the line, I know they havent worked in the past but Denver seems to have a better eye for talen in that area.

I hear AJ Hawk Supporters, but who is our Defensive Coach and what scheme will be run here will it be the 3-4 again or will we move to a 4-3? I think Carr will thrive in the offense that denver runs... Look what they did with Jake Plummer...

We just really need to find out what is what befre we start assuming who we draft...

whiskeyrbl
01-17-2006, 09:16 AM
anyone know what picks we have outside of #1,i know we have 4 in the first 66

Spoda
01-17-2006, 09:20 AM
we have 1st pick in 1st 2nd and 3rd round plus the second pick in the third from the saints..but as you have likely heard vince is all we need...those other picks won't make the team as vince will play most positions at the same time....it will be sweet when he wins MVP and offensive and defensive rookie of the year..plus they might as well give him coach of the year..actually we can cut our punter as we will never need him

Maddict5
01-17-2006, 10:11 AM
I hear AJ Hawk Supporters, but who is our Defensive Coach and what scheme will be run here will it be the 3-4 again or will we move to a 4-3? I think Carr will thrive in the offense that denver runs... Look what they did with Jake Plummer...
..

well denver run a 4-3 and rod marinelli of tampa is being tipped as our D.C. if detroit doesnt hire him as HC. so if that happens it will be some sort of 4-3, cover 2 scheme

MorKnolle
01-17-2006, 11:01 AM
To elaborate on the RB factory thing. It's a good point. Kubiak is bringing Shanny's system and philosophy, right??? Where in Shanny's system does it say draft a RB high when you get great production out of any back you put in there???

The Broncos had 2000 yards rushing between Anderson and Bell. If Bush get's 15 carries a game, averages a generous 5 yards a carry and plays all 16 games, then that comes to 1200 rushing yards. And of course, Davis will get carries to put that total up near 2000, but why do want to get 2000 yards with a 4th rounder and a 1st overall when you could get it with a 4th rounder and a 3rd rounder (Morency would thrive in the Denver system)???

Why not take a QB at #1 that will touch the ball every play and can make plays and lead a team instead of taking a running back #1 when you can get that type of production at a much cheaper price?

At the same time Denver has not taken a QB in the first two rounds in the last 11 drafts since Shanahan/Kubiak came there, and they've been quite successful for most of those years, and we already have a #1 overall QB in David Carr that is fully capable of running the new offense that Kubiak is going to bring in.

Fiddy
01-17-2006, 04:33 PM
At the same time Denver has not taken a QB in the first two rounds in the last 11 drafts since Shanahan/Kubiak came there, and they've been quite successful for most of those years, and we already have a #1 overall QB in David Carr that is fully capable of running the new offense that Kubiak is going to bring in. They've ever been in position to take a QB like Young. The best pick they've had in the first round since Elway left was #15 overall in 2000. You arent going to have a VY at #15 so to say they don't use high draft picks on QBs isnt accurate because they've never had a high enough pick to draft a game-changing QB.

On the flip-side, they passed on Shaun Alexander in 2000 and Michael Bennent and the A-Train in 2001. They passed on these players when they didnt have a stud back.

MorKnolle
01-17-2006, 04:38 PM
They've ever been in position to take a QB like Young. The best pick they've had in the first round since Elway left was #15 overall in 2000. You arent going to have a VY at #15 so to say they don't use high draft picks on QBs isnt accurate because they've never had a high enough pick to draft a game-changing QB.

On the flip-side, they passed on Shaun Alexander in 2000 and Michael Bennent and the A-Train in 2001. They passed on these players when they didnt have a stud back.

Indeed they had Elway for their first couple years so they weren't concerned about bringing in a new QB, but even the year Elway retired and they knew they'd need a new QB they didn't draft one until the 3rd round (Brian Griese). If they had thought it was such an important thing to have a top-flight QB, I would think they'd get one higher in the draft that year or else look for one in a later year. You could similarly argue that they never were in a position to draft someone of Reggie Bush's talent either.

Fiddy
01-17-2006, 04:44 PM
Indeed they had Elway for their first couple years so they weren't concerned about bringing in a new QB, but even the year Elway retired and they knew they'd need a new QB they didn't draft one until the 3rd round (Brian Griese). If they had thought it was such an important thing to have a top-flight QB, I would think they'd get one higher in the draft that year or else look for one in a later year. They know how important QB is but it's hard to get a top flight QB if you arent in the position to take one high in the draft. One reason is that no top-flight QBs are on the FA market because of the Franchise tag. Secondly, teams that struggle and are have a top pick usually need a QB, therefore, they arent going to give up the rights to a stud. You can take an Aaron Rogers type QB (who i've never been very high on) in the mid-first or you can take a Brian Gresie in the 3rd round who may be better with development.

You could similarly argue that they never were in a position to draft someone of Reggie Bush's talent either. Shaun Alexander is a 15 TD horse a year, averages 5 yards a carry and is the league MVP. Bush isnt in Alexander's class right now.

MorKnolle
01-17-2006, 04:47 PM
Shaun Alexander is a 15 TD horse a year, averages 5 yards a carry and is the league MVP. Bush isnt in Alexander's class right now.

I agree Alexander is a better RB than Bush is right now, but coming out of college Alexander was not the RB that Bush is, and Bush has some physical gifts that Alexander does not have. I'm not in the Bush camp, but I'd rather take him over Vince Young if we stay at the #1 pick and I see him being able to help this team a lot more than Vince.

Fiddy
01-17-2006, 07:51 PM
I agree Alexander is a better RB than Bush is right now, but coming out of college Alexander was not the RB that Bush is, and Bush has some physical gifts that Alexander does not have. Yes, but Alexander was still a top prospect RB, you have to be a top prospect to be a first round pick, that the Broncos passed up because they knew they could plug in a lesser back (Olandis Gary, Mike Anderson, etc.).