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View Full Version : Peyton can’t win the big one


texan279
01-16-2006, 01:02 PM
LINK (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10869075/)

If Peyton Manning is considered such a great decision-maker at quarterback, then how come he left Sunday’s playoff game on the lap of his ***** kicker?

Because it’s the playoffs.

You might say, wasn’t it Manning who rallied the Colts to a near-victory? Wasn’t it Mike Vanderjagt — whom Manning called not only an “***** kicker,” but also a “liquored-up” ***** kicker, at the 2003 Pro Bowl after Vanderjagt ripped Manning (and Colts coach Tony Dungy) as too unemotional — who missed a game-tying 46-yard field-goal with 21 seconds to go?

Well, yes. But Manning, starting in college at Tennessee, has made a habit out of digging a huge hole early in big games, then rallying just enough to lose respectably and stay title-free.

For all of Manning’s famed improvisational skills in play-calling before the snap, Manning loses all composure if the play doesn’t develop as planned after the snap. It’s not just that Manning is not very mobile.

It’s that the offense is based on timing, and any disruption of timing sends Manning into a panic. It also turns him against his teammates.

Rather than try to inspire his Colts when they’re behind, Manning tends to go into a shell and wonder why everybody else is screwing up.

Kaiser Toro
01-16-2006, 01:08 PM
Peyton and the umpteen million before him that could not win the big one is great literary fodder. Usually we have to wait for the full body of work to be closed before we can actually make that assertion.

Peyton is a big name in the sports world and the media's scurtiny comes with it. But if it were any other QB in his position yesterday, we would be talking about the kicker more so than the QB in my opinion.

Tale Gator
01-16-2006, 01:15 PM
Too early to say he can't win the big one, but certainly he has looked shaky during his playoff appearances. If he is going to win it all it needs to be in the next couple of years. The level of talent the Colts have at this point will be tough to keep around and difficult to duplicate in the future.

gtexan02
01-16-2006, 01:16 PM
To be fair, the defense really let them down more than Peyton in my opinion. I mean giving up those kinds of yards to Big Ben in the 1st half, then not stopping the run (even though everyone and their mother knew the Steelers were going to run) in the 4th quarter is unacceptable for a supposed super bowl defense

Tale Gator
01-16-2006, 01:21 PM
To be fair, the defense really let them down more than Peyton in my opinion. I mean giving up those kinds of yards to Big Ben in the 1st half, then not stopping the run (even though everyone and their mother knew the Steelers were going to run) in the 4th quarter is unacceptable for a supposed super bowl defense

Even with some shaky play they still only gave up 21 points.

Double Barrel
01-16-2006, 02:04 PM
Straight up [hypothetical] trade: Peyton Manning for David Carr

I'd take it in a heartbeat and never look back. :ok:

Lots of big name talent never made it to the Big One over the years. It doesn't diminish their talent, but rather our perception of it. It is a team sport, though, so there are a lot of great players that played on teams that just couldn't pull it through the clutch.

TD
01-16-2006, 02:12 PM
Is it Peyton Manning can't win the big one or Tony Dungy can't?

Both have a history of great regular seasons, but both seem to come up short in the big games.

Speedy
01-16-2006, 02:17 PM
Straight up [hypothetical] trade: Peyton Manning for David Carr

I'd take it in a heartbeat and never look back. :ok:
Maybe so, but funny how a 2-time MVP at QB doesn't look so good when he doesn't have time to throw the ball. Good thing Carr doesn't have a problem like that.

HJam72
01-16-2006, 02:19 PM
It's a team sport. Most of the most praised QBs are overrated and many of the less respected ones are underrated. Brett Farve had a terrible year, but it's the whole offense, including him, (if not he whole team) that actually failed, not just him. John Elway never won it all until he had an offense with a serious running game. I'm not putting down the Colts. I'm just saying that Manning got more pressure than a winning QB will usually get. That kind of pressure on your QB is almost always a loss, no matter who your QB is. The Steelers have a really good D and that makes them a formidable opponent to anyone.

Bayern
01-16-2006, 03:34 PM
I lost a lot of respect for Manning yesterday. His line obviously stunk it up for 3 quarters and he certainly didn't hold back blaiming them for the loss. It was one thing when this team couldn't beat the New England machine, yesterday they just looked unprepared and rusty.

Kaiser Toro
01-16-2006, 03:46 PM
Maybe so, but funny how a 2-time MVP at QB doesn't look so good when he doesn't have time to throw the ball. Good thing Carr doesn't have a problem like that.

Funny how that QB is a big reason why his team is in the playoffs every year and our QB is a big reason why we are not because we have not mortaged the future of our franchise to realize his potential.

Some people who love Carr, love to bash Manning. Not quite sure how this helps the fans perception of Carr.

SheTexan
01-16-2006, 05:38 PM
yesterday they just looked unprepared and rusty.

That's what ya get when you bench your team after they make the playoffs. Stupid decision IMO, never quiet understood that concept. Sure, they want to avoid injury, but, what does it matter if they are so stale and out of sync they can't win the game anyway. That's what I saw yesterday. A team that was not only rusty, but out of sync. The offense stunk, and it took them into the forth quarter before they found their old rhythm. What good did it do them to win 13 straight if they get lazy and blow it in the playoffs.

SESupergenius
01-16-2006, 05:59 PM
Phil Mickelson couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one. John Elway couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one.

Marino couldn't win the big one....but he's a HOF'r.

texan279
01-16-2006, 06:01 PM
Funny how that QB is a big reason why his team is in the playoffs every year and our QB is a big reason why we are not because we have not mortaged the future of our franchise to realize his potential.

Some people who love Carr, love to bash Manning. Not quite sure how this helps the fans perception of Carr.

Yesterday's Colt's game just proved that even great QB's like Manning would not succeed behind our offensive line...

HJam72
01-16-2006, 06:45 PM
Yesterday's Colt's game just proved that even great QB's like Manning would not succeed behind our offensive line...

That and that the best team doesn't always win anyway. I still say that Pittsburgh was the best team in the NFL LAST YEAR, but they fell apart in the play-offs. This year, Indianapolis was the best team (probably) and they lost to Pittsburgh (go figure). From a pure numbers standpoint, the odds are actually against the best team winning it all. You just have to be good, get into the play-offs, fight your butts off, and hope that things go your way.

kbourda
01-16-2006, 06:55 PM
Is it Peyton Manning can't win the big one or Tony Dungy can't?

Both have a history of great regular seasons, but both seem to come up short in the big games.


So it was Tony Dungy's fault he couldn't beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.

WWJD
01-16-2006, 07:06 PM
So it was Tony Dungy's fault he could beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.


Actually that's pretty much what I heard Peyton say after the game. He said he's been in the league 8 years and his time is finite....he knows the margin is narrow to get the job done. He stated the obvious too...their O line was terrible yesterday although he wasn't using those words. I'm kind of on the fence about that type of talk...you shouldn't do that maybe but it was obvious to anybody that's ever watched football. Their line got roughed up.

Snapple
01-16-2006, 07:22 PM
There's a difference between "can't win the big one" and "hasn't won the big one yet." A lot of guys labelled as chokers have gone on to win Superbowls and prove their doubters wrong. Peyton may well do the same thing.

I would absolutely take Peyton on the Texans though, that's for sure. And so would most people who are sane.

So he never won a championship in college. You could say the same thing about most of the all-time great pro QBs. And a lot of the guys who do win the national championship stink as pros (except for Vince <_<).

Double Barrel
01-16-2006, 08:12 PM
Phil Mickelson couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one. John Elway couldn't win the big one....until he won the big one.

Marino couldn't win the big one....but he's a HOF'r.

No doubt. Every Houston Oiler that ever lived - even the Hall of Fame ones - never went to the big dance, much less won one.

But it doesn't diminish our love for them in spite of it all. :)

TD
01-16-2006, 08:56 PM
So it was Tony Dungy's fault he couldn't beat Florida in college too, right? I knew I was going to hear this sooner or later. Sure Dungy hasn't won the big one as a coach. I think he'll be the first to tell you that. But what's Peyton's excuse? He's been in the league for eight going on nine years, he's no Carr now. He has zero excuses.

No, but when you consider that Tampa Bay won the SB the year after Dungy left with basically the same talent, it has to make you wonder.

Dungy had fantastic stats as a player (in college) and has one the best winning percentages as a coach, but hasn't won a "big game" either. I'm not knocking Dungy, but he and Manning seem to share the same affliction.

RTP2110
01-16-2006, 10:10 PM
Peyton Manning = Warren Moon
Indy Colts = Houston Oilers

kbourda
01-16-2006, 11:34 PM
No, but when you consider that Tampa Bay won the SB the year after Dungy left with basically the same talent, it has to make you wonder.

Dungy had fantastic stats as a player (in college) and has one the best winning percentages as a coach, but hasn't won a "big game" either. I'm not knocking Dungy, but he and Manning seem to share the same affliction.
That's fair.

HJam72
01-17-2006, 04:23 AM
I think it's mostly just the way things are. You can't blame one person, but I'd sure blame Dungy more than I would Manning. Manning is one player (the best player) on a 40? man roster.

TD
01-17-2006, 08:37 AM
I think it's mostly just the way things are. You can't blame one person, but I'd sure blame Dungy more than I would Manning. Manning is one player (the best player) on a 40? man roster.

Maybe, but at least for this year, Dungy gets a pass. I don't think I could bury my child and be back to work as quick as he did.

I suspect that part of the Colts problem is what happended to Tony's son. It put football in perspective which isn't a good thing when your trying to win in the playoffs. You need to play and coach like its the most important thing in the world, perspective needs to come AFTER the game.

BigBull17
01-17-2006, 08:50 AM
The thing that beats the Colts year in and year out is thier ego. They made no adjustments what so ever to Pitt. They thought that because hey had a great season and beat the crap out of Pitt that the Steelers were gonna curl up and let them roll on them.

Kaiser Toro
01-17-2006, 09:18 AM
This thread is crazy. It was a great game, one like I have never seen before, that did have a comeback led by the QB in question. What is lost in all of the sub plots is possibly the most amazing one, Nick Harper. As I was watching him scoop up the Bettis fumble and begin to run downfield I was asking myself, isn't he slow for a DB? I had forgotten that the dude was stabbed in the knee by his wife the night before.

Dennis007
01-17-2006, 12:29 PM
I think it's mostly just the way things are. You can't blame one person, but I'd sure blame Dungy more than I would Manning. Manning is one player (the best player) on a 40? man roster.

Shheesh, you must be Texan fans,pull out the "101 Excuses for your QB" !

Don't even bring Dungy into this, he's not on the field. Peyton forgot to put on his cape. that's all.

Peyton will win a championship a la Steve Young..The monkey is riding him right now but he'll get it soon. Then you guys won't praise the coach?! It will be all about Peyton.

So don't blame the coach b/c Peyton loss another playoff game. I like the guy but stop the excuses. he gets all the praise for the almost undefeated season but as soon as they lose the big one-- it's someone else's fault. Gimme a break! Porter was right.:stirpot:

El Tejano
01-17-2006, 12:37 PM
Peyton Manning = Warren Moon
Indy Colts = Houston Oilers
I was just going to say the same now but I definetly thought that as soon as they lost.

Bullpen Drew
01-17-2006, 12:44 PM
Peyton is Dan Marino reborn!

dtran04
01-17-2006, 01:22 PM
This game shows how important an O-Line is. Peyton was cleary rattled and missed alot of throws. He then proceeds to hang his O-Line dry. It was funny seeing the best QB in the NFL get happy feet and seeing how he reacted to actually being roughed up some. He wasn't as invincible as before.

TheOgre
01-17-2006, 02:48 PM
The Colts have too much money invested in their skill position players. If you cannot block and cannot stop the run, you won't win the playoffs. They have approximately 65% of their salary invested in their offense. I seem to remember reading that they had one of the lowest priced O-lines in the game. So where is that money going? You got it, the skills.

I believe that both James and Wayne are FA's. They should definitely let one, and perhaps both, go. It is time for them to improve their defense and their O-line. Otherwise they will continue to have a similar experience.

TEXANS84
01-18-2006, 10:36 AM
That's real nice of you Peyton :sarcasm: :

Colts quarterback Peyton Manning raised some eyebrows Sunday after the team's playoff loss to Pittsburgh when he appeared to criticize his offensive line. At the same time Manning was speaking in the interview room, left tackle Tarik Glenn was in the locker room, hogging the blame and defending Manning. Coach Tony Dungy said Manning was not pointing fingers.
-- Indianapolis Star
http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/01/17/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html

Kaiser Toro
01-18-2006, 10:52 AM
That's real nice of you Peyton :sarcasm: :


http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2006/scorecard/01/17/truth.rumors.nfl/index.html

The way I read this it puts a softer light on the words Manning chose.

BringItOn
01-18-2006, 04:43 PM
Yeah, that Peyton Manning sucks. The Colts should just cut their losses and trade him to us for a 5th round pick.

cuppacoffee
01-18-2006, 05:55 PM
This game shows how important an O-Line is. Peyton was cleary rattled and missed alot of throws. He then proceeds to hang his O-Line dry. It was funny seeing the best QB in the NFL get happy feet and seeing how he reacted to actually being roughed up some. He wasn't as invincible as before.

The Anti-Carr posters on this board will refuse to acknowledge this or to see the correlation...:shrug:

It happened to Payaton once, its happened to Carr four years now and counting.

"There are none so blind as those who refuse to see".


:coffee:

Kaiser Toro
01-20-2006, 09:44 AM
Dungy can win the big one, and I define big one as the game of life. The guy is extremely grounded.

"Maybe that's one of the blessings with my son's situation that really puts everything into perspective. I'm sure I'll get over this (loss to the Patriots) a lot faster than I'll get over (the death of) my son.' " (Colts coach Tony Dungy)

http://www.mercurynews.com/mld/mercurynews/sports/13670637.htm

WWJD
01-20-2006, 09:50 AM
It was the Steelers not Patriots but he is right. His son can never be replaced while a football game is just that...a game.

mike moffat
01-22-2006, 03:08 AM
There's a difference between "can't win the big one" and "hasn't won the big one yet." A lot of guys labelled as chokers have gone on to win Superbowls and prove their doubters wrong. Peyton may well do the same thing.

I would absolutely take Peyton on the Texans though, that's for sure. And so would most people who are sane.

So he never won a championship in college. You could say the same thing about most of the all-time great pro QBs. And a lot of the guys who do win the national championship stink as pros (except for Vince <_<).
Excellent observation, Snapple. I think that it's just a matter of time and Peyton will have his superbowl ring.
As for the National champions that can't make it in the pros. The one that comes to mind with me is Steve Spurrier. Mr. Heisman trophy winner. All that he could do in the pros was punt for S.F. Hell of a great college coach. I lived in Gainsville, Fl. for 3 years and became a huge Gator fan. Even played golf once with him. Super competitive, but, couldn't cut it in the Big Boys game.

HoustonFan
01-22-2006, 09:27 AM
As for Manning, maybe he'll make it to the big dance one day. Last Sunday made me realize one thing - NOT TO GET CAUGHT UP IN THE HYPE OF A HOT TEAM. You think I would have learned that from the Oilers w/ back to back awesome seasons, and the Vikiings.

Manning is still young. It's a team game. They've gotta learn to suck it up in the playoffs.

mancunian
01-22-2006, 02:33 PM
LINK (http://msnbc.msn.com/id/10869075/)

If Peyton Manning is considered such a great decision-maker at quarterback, then how come he left Sunday’s playoff game on the lap of his ***** kicker?

Because it’s the playoffs.

You might say, wasn’t it Manning who rallied the Colts to a near-victory? Wasn’t it Mike Vanderjagt — whom Manning called not only an “***** kicker,” but also a “liquored-up” ***** kicker, at the 2003 Pro Bowl after Vanderjagt ripped Manning (and Colts coach Tony Dungy) as too unemotional — who missed a game-tying 46-yard field-goal with 21 seconds to go?

Well, yes. But Manning, starting in college at Tennessee, has made a habit out of digging a huge hole early in big games, then rallying just enough to lose respectably and stay title-free.

For all of Manning’s famed improvisational skills in play-calling before the snap, Manning loses all composure if the play doesn’t develop as planned after the snap. It’s not just that Manning is not very mobile.

It’s that the offense is based on timing, and any disruption of timing sends Manning into a panic. It also turns him against his teammates.

Rather than try to inspire his Colts when they’re behind, Manning tends to go into a shell and wonder why everybody else is screwing up.

Manning blew it at the end as well not just the kicker. Ok his line had not been able to handle the blitz but he had chances to move them a bit further forward but he kept on going for the big play.
After the late Bettis fumble and return they had good field position. The first down gave them 8 yards. Second and third downs were shots at the end zone and 4th down was the missed field goal.
They should have played for OT as they had 3 time outs left. Imagine getting another 10 - 15 yards with those 2nd and 3rd downs. The kick would have been 30 - 35 yards not 46.

mancunian
01-22-2006, 02:35 PM
Yeah, that Peyton Manning sucks. The Colts should just cut their losses and trade him to us for a 5th round pick.

Yep and he can spend the rest of his career looking up at the sky - if the oline doesn't improve!

GoPats
01-26-2006, 01:39 PM
Manning will make it to a Super Bowl someday... maybe when the Pats sign him in four or five years as Brady's backup! (LOL, sorry... couldn't resist.)

Seriously though, you have to wonder. I'm not a sports psychologist or anything, but he's 3-6 in the playoffs. You can blame the O-line all you want for the loss to the Steelers, but isn't it Manning who's jumping around like a monkey on crack before every play, pointing out blitzers and assigning protections? Part of the protection is his responsibility. Besides, if you have a blitzer, you have at least one guy in single coverage, or uncovered. It's the QB's job to find that guy quick and get the ball out.

You're also talking about an O-line that gave up 17 sacks this year in 16 games, and kept Peyton clean and upright most of the time. They struggled in one game, but it's not like that's a bad line.