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texan279
01-15-2006, 02:15 AM
from www.kffl.com

Texans | First draft pick decision will be new head coach's call
Sat, 14 Jan 2006 22:46:42 -0800

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the decision on the Houston Texans first pick in the 2006 NFL Draft will belong to their new head coach - expected to be Denver Broncos offensive coordinator Gary Kubiak. The Texans' new coach will get input from the team's personnel department, including general manager Charley Casserly. He will get input from his offensive assistants, buy ultimately the decision will belong to the new head coach.

TexansTrueFan
01-15-2006, 02:17 AM
well he knows the importance of a solid line so hopefully he will not make a FIRST BAD draft pick.

Mr. White
01-15-2006, 02:20 AM
Wouldn't be surprised if he traded it down. Seems like his mentor is practical when it comes to draft selection.

beerlover
01-15-2006, 02:27 AM
Wouldn't be surprised if he traded it down. Seems like his mentor is practical when it comes to draft selection.

thats a very insightful point. also on record is they don't draft lineman or RB's early :rolleyes: but would an offensive coach go defensive with the 1st pick after trading down :confused:

TexansTrueFan
01-15-2006, 02:28 AM
thats a very insightful point. also on record is they don't draft lineman or RB's early :rolleyes: but would an offensive coach go defensive with the 1st pick after trading down :confused:


who would u take ?

Hookem Horns
01-15-2006, 02:37 AM
according to JM. http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3587895.html

Whether you are for Young or Bush, stop and put yourself in GK shoes. Let's say you are GK and you have no bias to either player. Who do you go with?

I can see him going either way. Here are some reasons why he might go with Young...

He is a rookie coach and specializes in coaching QB's. In Young he get's a fresh guy to start from scratch. He could think Carr is damaged goods who already has 4 years of wear and tear and has developed plenty of bad habits on the NFL level that may be hard to break. Of maybe he just thinks VY has a lot more potential than Carr. Also, if he goes with Young, he won't have the pressure to "turn this thing around" as quick as he would with Carr. The fans and the front office might be more patient with him because he would truly be starting from scratch.

Here is why he might go with Bush...

He watches a lot of ESPN :).

OK seriously, maybe he thinks Carr can be "all of that and a bag of chips". Maybe he is confident that Carr just needs a little tweaking to be a top flight QB. In his mind Bush would be a valuable weapon to take the pressure off of Carr and help him along. However to pick Bush #1 he is going to have to buy into a lot of the hype that this guy is going to be the next Gayle Sayers, not the next Eric Metcalf. Bush is going to have to be a lot more than a mere luxury to choose at #1. If Kubiak is sold on that he might go this way.

Trading down for a deal too good to pass up is another great option for him to get started. I am sure he won't be opposed to that even if he has decided on a player at #1. It would give him multiple new pieces to start with obviously.

Honestly, if the ball is truly in GK court as JM thinks. I think EVERYTHING is going to hinge on what he TRULY thinks of David Carr because as Capers will attest too, it is his butt on the line if things don't work out. Young will buy him more time to be successful however if Young bust and Carr goes on to be a great QB, it will also be his head that will roll.

One thing is certain however, Casserly will either be taking credit or deflecting blame on the coach depending on how things go.


OK, someone beat me to the punch because of my long post. Feel free to merge my post with the other thread that is titled the same :)

Mr. White
01-15-2006, 02:38 AM
A good trade would be with the Jets at #4. Any of the Big Three would be great in that media fishbowl and we take AJ Hawk. He would be a good leader to replace Sharper.

I doubt it would be in his philosophy to take Brick in the draft. His coaching changes and some later round OL picks may be enough to help the OL out.

beerlover
01-15-2006, 02:44 AM
who would u take ?

the question is who would Kubiak take? the Texans have so many needs, if the Texans switch to a 4-3 that may influence the decison to take a DE pass rushing specialist like Mario Williams, but I have'nt seen him play so I'm not sure about him. Hawk would fill the MLB position even though he's listed as a OLB, I like his toughness and speed to cover ground sideline to sideline which is what you need especially if you are in :spy: coverage.

however after watching Denver today and sensing that Kubiak is coming to Houston to ressurect Carrs career I think the best move (in a trade down) would be to draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson, this should help Kubiac with Carr's development as much as the scheme and playcalling. :twocents:

BREAZE
01-15-2006, 02:55 AM
"The worst mistake the Texans could make would be to listen to the fans and media, but that won't keep everyone from having an opinion." Translation, the worst mistake a company could make would be to listen to its customers, but that won't keep everyone from having an opinion...sorry, that struck me as funny. That's why football is so unique I guess.

I have faith the Texans and GK will make the move that will most improve the team for years to come. I just hope they have a good risk/reward caculator handy...

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 03:00 AM
He's taking Vince.

He's a QB guy and will ressurect Carr for a season and raise his trade value. Then with a season of watching, learning, getting used to the bench just in case he makes bone-headed mistakes early, an NFL Training Camp, andsome garbage time in season one, Vince will take-over.

Grid
01-15-2006, 03:03 AM
They should function under the assumption that their fans will be their fans whether they take Bush or Young. Anything else just isnt acceptable. Besides.. any fan that would quit supporting the team because they didnt take Young.. would quit supporting them cause they lost four in a row.. or didnt finish above .500.. etc..etc.. basicly.. fairweather fans will be fairweather fans no matter what you do.. so dont worry about them.

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 03:07 AM
"The worst mistake the Texans could make would be to listen to the fans and media, but that won't keep everyone from having an opinion." Translation, the worst mistake a company could make would be to listen to its customers, but that won't keep everyone from having an opinion...sorry, that struck me as funny. That's why football is so unique I guess.

I have faith the Texans and GK will make the move that will most improve the team for years to come. I just hope they have a good risk/reward caculator handy...
Good post
Do you think that if they take Vince it'll only be because of fan pressure.

Scenario:
Bush is rated a 96 on their board
Young a 95

Who do you take?

texan279
01-15-2006, 03:14 AM
Good post
Do you think that if they take Vince it'll only be because of fan pressure.

Scenario:
Bush is rated a 96 on their board
Young a 95

Who do you take?

I doubt Kubiak takes Young solely because of pressure from the fans. He is going to come in and try to do what it takes to turn this ship around, so I would think he would make the choice that he believes will help the team the most.

Nighthawk
01-15-2006, 04:25 AM
Kubiak and his coaches and Casserly and McNair will all be involved in the selection adn there will be plenty of evaluation going on, including interviews, workouts, film, background checks, outside opinions, more workouts. People are going to want to see VY up close and in person, see how he throws in person, see what kind of person he is. Ditto Bush (well, not the throwing).

I gotta think that at this point Bush is the fave if they keep the pick, just because Carr is a kind of mid-quality QB they can work with, and Young is too fancy a prospect.

You take Young you plan on building the franchise around him for ten years. Carr's got another 3 years before he's a backup somewhere.

TexanFanInCC
01-15-2006, 04:29 AM
as much as i want to see reggie bush in a texans uniform, i feel that under kubiak's direction, the running game behind domanick davis should be sufficient enough for us to win alot of games. however i still think kubiak will stick with david carr for at least another year. in the meantime, i think the texans need to draft in the following order (priorities):

1. LB - aj hawk (the next brian urlacher)
2. OL
3. CB
4. WR who can run!
5. FS or SS for insurance

i really hope the texans switch to a 4-3 defense. keep payne and travis johnson in the middle and stick peek and robaire at the DE's with babin being the wildcard. some way or another, ur d-line needs to get a better pass rush, so might as well play peek at his natural DE spot. ur linebackers would consist of aj hawk, kailee wong, morlon greenwood, and the wildcards being shantee orr and da shon polk. ur secondary would have dunta, pbuc, glenn earl, and cc brown. the texans may need to look for a more serviceable nickle.

LCOOL
01-15-2006, 07:07 AM
He's taking Vince.

He's a QB guy and will ressurect Carr for a season and raise his trade value. Then with a season of watching, learning, getting used to the bench just in case he makes bone-headed mistakes early, an NFL Training Camp, andsome garbage time in season one, Vince will take-over.
What do you think about Kubiak going after Lavar Arrington in the Free agent market?

Malloy
01-15-2006, 07:53 AM
however after watching Denver today and sensing that Kubiak is coming to Houston to ressurect Carrs career I think the best move (in a trade down) would be to draft D'Brickashaw Ferguson, this should help Kubiac with Carr's development as much as the scheme and playcalling. :twocents:

I agree, as good as Young and Bush are, we do have greater needs that a new coach (Kubiak hopefully) would probably adress first. That means trading down. Oh well, we'll see :)

MorKnolle
01-15-2006, 10:03 AM
thats a very insightful point. also on record is they don't draft lineman or RB's early :rolleyes: but would an offensive coach go defensive with the 1st pick after trading down :confused:

Denver has drafted a couple OLinemen pretty early, but the majority of their 1st round picks are on defense and a couple on WR, (none on QBs or RBs), so I wouldn't at all be surprised to see Kubiak push for a trade down to bring in OLinemen or defensive players, I would think OLinemen would be a higher priority since ours are lousy for the most part and he is an offensive coach and when people evaluate his success in a year or two, they're first going to look at how he turned around the offense since he is an offensive coach.

What do you think about Kubiak going after Lavar Arrington in the Free agent market?

Arrington is not a free agent unless Washington releases him, we missed our chance to get him earlier this year when they were not happy with him and we probably could have traded a 4th round pick for him, but now it seems like Washington is happier with him again and will keep him.

Also Denver has 1,500 yard rushers every year it seems. They had Terrell Davis who retired. Then they got Portis who they traded. Then they had 3 guys who combined for 2,000 yards. They have a very good playbook and guys up front that create huge holes and protect the pocket.

Kubiak will bring that to Houston.

Denver also got 1500 yard seasons out of Olandis Gary after TD got hurt and out of Mike Anderson after Gary and TD got hurt the following season.

HardKnockTexan
01-15-2006, 01:31 PM
Even though Kubiak will be a rookie head coach I'm sure he has quite an ego. He has put together one of the most effective offensive schemes in the NFL. He has a reputation for being able to plug any runningback into his system and make them look like superstars. Along with that he is known for being great at developing quarterbacks. If he sees potential in Carr and has faith in his running scheme then I could very easily see him trading out of the first spot.

uhcougar08
01-15-2006, 01:39 PM
He's taking Vince.

He's a QB guy and will ressurect Carr for a season and raise his trade value. Then with a season of watching, learning, getting used to the bench just in case he makes bone-headed mistakes early, an NFL Training Camp, andsome garbage time in season one, Vince will take-over.

Why would he want Vince when he has Plummer's twin brother Carr. Not only that, but Vince Young will be horrible as an NFL QB.

Erratic Assassin
01-15-2006, 03:15 PM
from www.kffl.com

John McClain, of the Houston Chronicle, reports the decision on the Houston Texans first pick in the 2006 NFL Draft will belong to their new head

That's Casserly's job. Kubiak's job will be to coach the team that Casserly assembles. :brickwall

Casserly takes no responsibility for picking players (his job). That's how Casserly gets to keep his job. He can always blame the lack of talent on the coach.

It's amazing that Casserly doesn't even take responsibility for #1 overall picks.

Erratic Assassin
01-15-2006, 03:20 PM
One thing is certain however, Casserly will either be taking credit or deflecting blame on the coach depending on how things go.

You are absolutely correct about Casserly. I'm starting to question Bob McNair's judgement for not recognizing the game Casserly is playing.

Marcus
01-15-2006, 04:22 PM
That's Casserly's job. Kubiak's job will be to coach the team that Casserly assembles. :brickwall

Casserly takes no responsibility for picking players (his job). That's how Casserly gets to keep his job. He can always blame the lack of talent on the coach.

It's amazing that Casserly doesn't even take responsibility for #1 overall picks.

If Bob McNair informs both Casserly and Kubiak, that Kubiak will make the final call on the #1 pick, then Kubiak is responsible, right? I dunno . . sounds rather simple to me.

What are you complaining about? You complain about his decision making, but then when the decision is left to someone else, you're still complaining. Make up your mind.

Vinny
01-15-2006, 04:27 PM
I think he'll stick with Carr.

This isn't aimed at you but why does everyone just assume this because Carr compares to Jake? He coached Steve Young and John Elway and hasn't sniffed the Super Bowl since then. Perhaps he hates Jake and we don't know it as fans. It's not like he would come out and be critical of his QB.

just throwing that out there. none of us really know what he is thinking.

MojoX
01-15-2006, 04:30 PM
McNair has decided the head coach should have more say in personnel. That is why everything in the organization is on hold until Kubiak is on the job. Sportsline has some tidbits about this:

http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/HOU/9162382
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/HOU/9162384
http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/HOU/9162383

While you check out the links, note this quote (http://www.sportsline.com/nfl/teams/report/HOU/9162383) by Gary Walker:

"It was the Vince Young show. Damn, if he comes out, he should be the No. 1 pick in the draft. What an athlete. Bush is a great player, too, but I don't think he's better than Vince Young. Young was the best player on the field. I mean he made so many good plays throwing and running." - DE Gary Walker, when asked at halftime of the Rose Bowl game what he thought of Reggie Bush.

Don't know if that's been posted here, but it was new to me.

Mr. White
01-15-2006, 06:50 PM
Looks like the writing's on the wall already. This is McNair's way of telling the angry mob "Kubiak's the one who didn't want your guy. Let's give him a chance" while Reliant is under siege.

LoneStarState
01-15-2006, 09:17 PM
"It was the Vince Young show. Damn, if he comes out, he should be the No. 1 pick in the draft. What an athlete. Bush is a great player, too, but I don't think he's better than Vince Young. Young was the best player on the field. I mean he made so many good plays throwing and running." - DE Gary Walker, when asked at halftime of the Rose Bowl game what he thought of Reggie Bush.

Don't know if that's been posted here, but it was new to me.
Heh... Gary Walker probably won't even be here next year... :redtowel:

Nighthawk
01-15-2006, 09:24 PM
They should function under the assumption that their fans will be their fans whether they take Bush or Young. Anything else just isnt acceptable. Besides.. any fan that would quit supporting the team because they didnt take Young.. would quit supporting them cause they lost four in a row.. or didnt finish above .500.. etc..etc.. basicly.. fairweather fans will be fairweather fans no matter what you do.. so dont worry about them.

It's not about calling people names just because they don't follow the team when the team is a total dud. Who would want to follw the mess Capers and Casserly and Carr created? They made the same mistakes week in and week out, this season, last season, the season before that. Why would you go to the games, or watch the games on TV, if the team is total crap and not getting any better?

And the Vince Young stuff is not about take Vince Young or else, it's about Young being a better NFL prospect than anyone else available--Bush/Leinart/Ferguson/Whomever.

And Carr, of course. Young is probably ALREADY better than Carr and Young hasn't taken an NFL snap yet.

These are the things the front office should "function under the assumption" of.

Nighthawk
01-15-2006, 09:30 PM
I think he'll stick with Carr. trade the picks and draft an offensive line.

The thing is, he can draft Vince Young, trade Carr for extra picks/players to build the offensive line and D, and have a way better team and a way better QB.

That said, if it's really up to K, and I don't know if I believe the hype that it is, I figure he'll take a close look at Carr, a close look at Young, and a close look at Bush before deciding what to do.

Maybe Carr, significantly less of a natural talent than Young, is more the kind of QB that K wants, though I find it hard to imagine why one would prefer a lesser talent at QB.

ccdude730
01-15-2006, 09:31 PM
This isn't aimed at you but why does everyone just assume this because Carr compares to Jake? He coached Steve Young and John Elway and hasn't sniffed the Super Bowl since then. Perhaps he hates Jake and we don't know it as fans. It's not like he would come out and be critical of his QB.

just throwing that out there. none of us really know what he is thinking.
we may not know what coack k is thinking, but we know what plummer is saying about him:

"I'm actually lucky to have had a chance to be coached by him," Plummer said. "He's given me confidence, put me in situations where I can function so I can utilize my talents.

"Not only does Kubes understand offense, but he understands defenses so well that he puts all of us in positions where we can do what we're best at. He doesn't ask certain guys to do things they aren't good at, me especially."

Plummer is in his third season with the Broncos. He spends more time with Kubiak than any player on the roster.

"I think he's going to be a great head coach," Plummer said. "I think he'll be great at seeing the big picture. Because he played for so many years (nine), he can rub elbows with the players. He can associate with us after a tough game or after a big win.

"You want a head coach who's honest with you. Guys appreciate Kubes' honesty, and I don't see him changing. I'm very happy for him. I'm very sad to lose him, obviously, because of what he's done for me and my career. How do you replace a guy like that? He's been the buffer between Mike and me. Losing that is going to be tough, but I'm very excited for him. I want to see him do well, and I believe he will do well."Chron (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/fb/texansfront/3586983.html)
Jake is just so high on this guy as a player's coach. i find it hard to believe kubiak would have a problem with plummer

Vinny
01-15-2006, 09:35 PM
Jake is just so high on this guy as a player's coach. i find it hard to believe kubiak would have a problem with plummerYou can think a guy is wonderful but not have a high grade on his talent. Capers is a wonderful guy and nobody had a problem with him other than the fact he isn't a good head coach.

chuckm
01-15-2006, 09:38 PM
Capers is a wonderful guy and nobody had a problem with him other than the fact he isn't a good head coach.

is this a fact or your opinion?

ccdude730
01-15-2006, 09:39 PM
You can think a guy is wonderful but not have a high grade on his talent. Capers is a wonderful guy and nobody had a problem with him other than the fact he isn't a good head coach.
talent wise he isnt the cream of the crop. but in the offense he can do what suites him best, like what kubiak stresses. a good running game and the play action bootlegs help them to be one of the most consistent offenses in the league.

Vinny
01-15-2006, 09:41 PM
talent wise he isnt the cream of the crop. but in the offense he can do what suites him best, like what kubiak stresses. a good running game and the play action bootlegs help them to be one of the most consistent offenses in the league.My point wasn't so much about how much Kubiak thinks of Plummer as much as it is about the fact that we are just speculating that he wants a player like Plummer just because Plummer is his QB right now.is this a fact or your opinion?I just assume everyone posts their opinion, so yeah, if I post it, it's my opinion.

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 09:42 PM
Looks like the writing's on the wall already. This is McNair's way of telling the angry mob "Kubiak's the one who didn't want your guy. Let's give him a chance" while Reliant is under siege.
The fans will hold it against him that he is a hometown guy and he chooses a guy from CA and bypasses on the greatest Hometown college athelete we've ever seen. Gonna be a tough decision.

Blake
01-15-2006, 09:43 PM
The fans will hold it against him that he is a hometown guy and he chooses a guy from CA and bypasses on the greatest Hometown college athelete we've ever seen. Gonna be a tough decision.

I dont agree....

As long as we win, there is no problem. As long as we are contenders, I dont care what the hell happens to Vince.

Winning Cures All. Period.

chuckm
01-15-2006, 09:51 PM
I dont agree....

As long as we win, there is no problem. As long as we are contenders, I dont care what the hell happens to Vince.

Winning Cures All. Period.


I couldn't agree with this more ....

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 10:07 PM
I dont agree....

As long as we win, there is no problem. As long as we are contenders, I dont care what the hell happens to Vince.

Winning Cures All. Period.
Yeah, you're probably right in that we win and go to the playoffs. Think that'll happen every year. No. Think it'll happen next year or the season after that.No. So basically, when Carr screws up it'll K's fault, when we don't go to the playoffs, it'll be K's fault, when we don't go to the playoffs and VY does, it'll be K's fault. I don't care if we go 11-5 and not get in, the fans will clammor over it, especially if the VY led Titans get in @ 11-5 with the tie-breaker being that they sweep the season series. And if the Texans are setting K up to take the heat when/if we don't pick him cuz he's a hometown guy himself and that the heat will be minimal cuz of that, well they're wrong. He doesn't even have an inkling of the clout of "The Hometown Guy" as VY does. If we draft Bush and he either can't stay on the field cuz of inj or independability (ie National Championship Game) and Carr/Texans stinks up the joint and wins the #1 overall selection in the 07' draft again we'd just end up taking Quinn (given he performs as expected). So whats the difference
I ask, or let me guess, Brady Quinn will be twice QB as VY will ever be. Give me a break

ccdude730
01-15-2006, 10:09 PM
My point wasn't so much about how much Kubiak thinks of Plummer as much as it is about the fact that we are just speculating that he wants a player like Plummer just because Plummer is his QB right now.
gotcha. fair assessment :ok:

OzzO
01-15-2006, 10:24 PM
Yeah, you're probably right in that we win and go to the playoffs. Think that'll happen every year. No. Think it'll happen next year or the season after that.No. So basically, when Carr screws up it'll K's fault, when we don't go to the playoffs, it'll be K's fault, when we don't go to the playoffs and VY does, it'll be K's fault....

Can someone get this guy a refil - his glass is half empty and looks to be draining pretty quick.

So, let's try the other side (gonna plagerize a bit).... Yeah, you're probably right in that we win and go to the playoffs. Think we;ll have that possiblity every year. Yes. Think it'll happen next year or the season after that. Maybe in 2 seasons. So basically, when Carr becomes the leader under better coaches it'll K's opportunity, when we go to the playoffs, it'll be K's opportunity, when we go to the playoffs because VY can't do it all himself with the Titans, it'll be K's opportunity...

See, now doesn't that have a better feel to it? :redtowel:

uhcougar08
01-15-2006, 10:42 PM
My point wasn't so much about how much Kubiak thinks of Plummer as much as it is about the fact that we are just speculating that he wants a player like Plummer just because Plummer is his QB right now.

Well, right now Plummer is in the AFC championship, while McNabb, Vick, and Culpepper sit at home. I think he (Kubiak) is a smart guy who likes QB's, not throwing, running backs (if that makes since); that is what I think VY is. I just see him as a true pocket QB type guy, IMO.