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LBC_Justin
01-14-2006, 10:47 PM
He said Kubiak will be the Texans new Head Coach. (Which I agree with.)

He said the Texans WILL draft Vince Young. It was kind of creepy because it sounded more like he was campaigning for it to happen, not reporting on the Texans.

Sirius NFL Radio being national is pretty unbiased by local fan pressure. The hosts of the show seemed a little shocked. I think most of them think Reggie Bush is a no brainer for the Texans. Because if you draft VY, you won't have Carr or Bush on the field. Most of them still see Carr as having an upside.

Not sure if anyone else caught it.

Tulip
01-14-2006, 10:55 PM
Thanks for the update.

There's a lot of confidence in the local media that the Texans will choose VY. I have no confidence that any such thing will happen, but it's interesting that so many of the media guys do.

John and Lance were on 610 with Richard Justice this week, and they all thought it was a no-brainer - McNair is going to want VY. I swear, I feel like I'm missing something.

Marcus
01-14-2006, 11:06 PM
Thanks for the update.

There's a lot of confidence in the local media that the Texans will choose VY. I have no confidence that any such thing will happen, but it's interesting that so many of the media guys do.

John and Lance were on 610 with Richard Justice this week, and they all thought it was a no-brainer - McNair is going to want VY. I swear, I feel like I'm missing something.

The local media and the talk show morons are sucking UT fan's butts. Give it about another month, and the puckering will wear off.

dat_boy_yec
01-14-2006, 11:06 PM
I think it's homerism plain and simple. They want their guy here and don't want to accept that it won't happen. Alot (not all so don't flame me for this) of this support comes from ppl who aren't really into football and just support the Texans because they're from Houston and think it makes sense that they get a hometown boy for the hometown team. You think all them ppl that listen to 97.9 know about Bush or the situation the Texans are in. I'm not being bias, but im sure the majority of them don't. I'm sure there are alot of imformed listeners that have their reasons to want Vince, but I find that many ppl are fairweather fans and go on what the information the media gives them. Many of them I'm sure are not even aware yet that the Texans could in fact trade down and pass on Young and Bush. You can't blame them for it, but that's what I think drives the hype for Young.

nunusguy
01-14-2006, 11:09 PM
He said Kubiak will be the Texans new Head Coach. (Which I agree with.)
He said the Texans WILL draft Vince Young. It was kind of creepy because it sounded more like he was campaigning for it to happen, not reporting on the Texans.
Sirius NFL Radio being national is pretty unbiased by local fan pressure. The hosts of the show seemed a little shocked. I think most of them think Reggie Bush is a no brainer for the Texans. Because if you draft VY, you won't have Carr or Bush on the field. Most of them still see Carr as having an upside.
Not sure if anyone else caught it.
You have to consider that John McClain said for most of 2005 that Dom Capers would never use a first round pick on a DL.
Sure everyone outside of Houston is shocked by reports that the Texans would actually choose VY over Bush, but they are far more objective and removed from all the whoola for the home town boy. People like McClain are too busy pumping a local stfory to sell papers.

kbourda
01-14-2006, 11:21 PM
Gentlemen, let's get something straight. VY is not hype, he's for real. I mean, he's doing nothing I haven't seen before from him. I hear people go on and on about Bush and the yardage he gets. It's ok, but don't act like Young gets absolutely no yards at all and doesn't deserve this attention. Homerism? Maybe it's there but don't think for one second that So Cal doesn't hype up Bush either. The only difference is that you live here or closer to the surrounding area. So please stop attempting minimize Young's career simply cause you don't like him. That's fine but enough with the "homer" and "fair-weather" blasts.

Marcus
01-14-2006, 11:32 PM
That's fine but enough with the "homer" and "fair-weather" blasts.

Pfffft! Those blasts ARE deserved. If VY went to Penn State, and lived in Philadephia, there wouldn't even be a debate in this town, or on this board. (But they'd be going crazy on the Eagles MB, though)

Tulip
01-14-2006, 11:49 PM
It's not just the :homer:s. Terry Bradshaw and Jimmy Johnson were salivating over Vince too and thought it would be great for the Texans to take him.

BREAZE
01-15-2006, 12:02 AM
I just get a kick reading how so many of you seem to know whats going to happen. By the way, when does the world come to an end so I can preplan?

Dr. Toro
01-15-2006, 12:21 AM
There are a ton of homers that want VY, but there's a sizeable amount of fans who A) don't like having a QB whose TD/INT ratio is worse than Joey Harrington's B) were sold by VY's Rose Bowl and season C) are intrigued by the possibility of the most freakish QB ever.

The fact that Vince is a Houstonian isn't entirely meritless. It might not make a difference on the field (then again it might... in an era when athletes are only loyal to the money, a little home town pride could go a long way), but it certainly makes a difference in the community. It matters to good management.

awtysst
01-15-2006, 12:30 AM
I just get a kick reading how so many of you seem to know whats going to happen. By the way, when does the world come to an end so I can preplan?

year 10,000. Thats when all my postdated checks are written for!

texan279
01-15-2006, 12:37 AM
There are a ton of homers that want VY, but there's a sizeable amount of fans who A) don't like having a QB whose TD/INT ratio is worse than Joey Harrington's B) were sold by VY's Rose Bowl and season C) are intrigued by the possibility of the most freakish QB ever.

The fact that Vince is a Houstonian isn't entirely meritless. It might not make a difference on the field (then again it might... in an era when athletes are only loyal to the money, a little home town pride could go a long way), but it certainly makes a difference in the community. It matters to good management.

Harrington has thrown for 60 TD's and 62 TD's compared to Carr's 48 TD's and 53 INT's, not like there is a real big difference there. And Carr has thrown for 10624 yards and a comletion percentage of 57.8 over four years compared to Harrington's 10242 yards and 54.7 completion percentage over four years if we want to get picky about it...

Dr. Toro
01-15-2006, 12:42 AM
Well, that makes Carr the equivalent of a guy who is a joke throughout the NFL and is being chased out of Detroit. Sorry, didn't mean to get picky. Just thought it was a telling stat.

Daonly
01-15-2006, 12:46 AM
Those Radio Jock guys knows what the hell going on.... RATINGS!! if they agree on Reggie Bush as being lock for the Texans no one listens. It's the Hot topic, to keep it hot.. you get two guys to represent the Vince Camp, and the other the Bush Camp.. you got a hot topic for the next 3 months, you charge a little more for advertising. and Boom! their you have it. Trust me i work in radio in one of the biggest markets; here in los angeles.

texan279
01-15-2006, 12:46 AM
Well, that makes Carr the equivalent of a guy who is a joke throughout the NFL and is being chased out of Detroit. Sorry, didn't mean to get picky. Just thought it was a telling stat.

I understand what you are saying, but Harrington has failed with talent around him on the field. I mean in the last draft with their first pick they took a WR, the draft before that they used their first and second picks on a WR and RB and in the last draft a WR with their 1st pick. Maybe his problem is the coaching also, I don't know, I do know several Lion fans have told me they would take Carr in a heartbeat over Harrington though...

Grid
01-15-2006, 12:51 AM
I think the media is fishing for a good story. Vince Young sells more papers.. so they are pushing him. Get the fans riled up and beleiving that we will be getting vince young.. then they have another great fiasco to write about if we dont.

Sounds to me like someone needs to smack John McClain upside the head... run him out of houston.. something.

Dr. Toro
01-15-2006, 01:01 AM
Well, what do you think about the fact that it seems Detroit will only keep Harrington if he renegotiates his deal, because he's due a $4 million roster bonus. Isn't Carr's $8 mill. I'm not saying Detroit management is fantastic, but they see Volek, Kitna, Schaub, Garrard, and Josh McCown as backups who have performed better than Joey in limited capacities (Volek and Kitna are legit), and wonder why they should pay him money he couldn't get on the open market. Why should Carr be a lock to get his money?

I'm not sure our situation is all that different, AJ and DD are good receiving options (the TE situation has hurt Carr). Harrington never had a healthy Charles Rogers and Mike Williams couldn't really crack the lineup this year.

texan279
01-15-2006, 01:06 AM
Well, what do you think about the fact that it seems Detroit will only keep Harrington if he renegotiates his deal, because he's due a $4 million roster bonus. Isn't Carr's $8 mill. I'm not saying Detroit management is fantastic, but they see Volek, Kitna, Schaub, Garrard, and Josh McCown as backups who have performed better than Joey in limited capacities (Volek and Kitna are legit), and wonder why they should pay him money he couldn't get on the open market. Why should Carr be a lock to get his money?

I'm not sure our situation is all that different, AJ and DD are good receiving options (the TE situation has hurt Carr). Harrington never had a healthy Charles Rogers and Mike Williams couldn't really crack the lineup this year.

I am not sure about the specifics of Carr's contract and I am not even sure if his contract can be negotiated at this point.

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 02:30 AM
I just don't want to see them not pick him because they don't wanna be viewed that they chose him because he is the home-town guy, *sorry for the triple negative*.

I'm a born and raised Houstonian but could care less about UT. But when one of our own kept it in-state that was I thought it would be a great time to an ear on the rail-road trax.

There are other Houstonians in the draft that will go in the 1st round but were not clammoring over them. Ashton Youboty, CB out of The Ohio State and Rodrique Wright, DT out of UT.

You see, there are alot of posters here from other parts of the country/world that have not seen all of our games. We see Carr getting sacked, making bad decisions, running out of bounds behind LOS still, overthrowing wide open WR down field, bullet pasing when a touch pass is needed, fumbling, sliding too late, and most importantly he's not shown much leadership capabilities.

We want Vince to upgrade a very weak QB corps
We don't Bush cuz we think we have a strong RB corps

Why replace a productive RB that has a viable back-up with a rookie flash in the pan RB who would mch rather shake rattle and roll his way out of trouble behind the LOS. Didn't really work in UT game against a pretty stout D.

Why not instead replace the unproductive QB with a QB that squashed the #'s comprably to QB's that many want to compare him to. McNabb, Culpepper, Vick, S. Young. Go ahead and look it up. He has performed better than all of those guys and has a National Championship and the accompanying MVP. He has also NEVER been injured while at UT. When Bush was interviewed at his coming out press conference, he was asked about his shoulder. I sure Cass and Co. investigate. Shelf life on Rb's is 3-5 years, Qb's is 6-9. Why waste a #1 on the RB that will probably get hurt alot along with having to gain weight ( he said that himself).

I'm a homer but I'm not stupid. If Young was not as good as he is and is not projected to be at least good at the QB position, then I say take Bush or Leinert or trade down and go after Hawk. But Young is that good, this isn't a fluke, he'll do great things in the league. And he wants to win for us. It just makes it sweet that he's from these parts.

Hey, we've got new smilies :yahoo:

fballer99
01-15-2006, 02:33 AM
There are three reasons we should get Vince Young, in my opinion based on what I have seen at the games:

1. For the sake of bringing people into the games. I don't know if anyone was at the San Francisco game, but my friends couldn't even give their tickets away. Vince Young would get every UT fan in the vicinity into the stadium, win or lose.

2. We have all seen Carr get booed at the games. It is some intense booing that definitely does not help team moral; and Carr unfortunately easily disparages his team and his fans. When he gets up from a sack slow like he is injured every time, or smiles and laughs when he is put into a 3 and out situation, he gives hope to the other team. Everyone who has played football knows that there is nothing more inspiring to a defense than a quarterback who gets up slow after you smash him, and nothing more depressing than a quarterback who takes a tremendous blow and hops back up, despite his pain. Carr just has the field presence of a loser, rather than a leader. I can never foresee any last quarter comebacks by him in a game that really counts; he lacks the leadership ability, and frankly looks like he doesn't care anymore (as he seems to pay more attention to his long hair during games than the valiant effort his depressed defense is putting up for every time they go right back out after 4 plays). Sure, he has the technical ability to throw good bullet passes and rolls out ok, but he has been mentally destroyed by being sacked so much. He is damaged goods, and he deserves a fresh start at another team. Then we get to my point: Can you imagine the uproar of the fans if we DON'T draft Vince and Carr goes out and has another abysmal performance and acts like he doesn't care? What if Vince Young goes somewhere else and performs awesomely and we sit back here in Houston and watch Carr "lead" his team to defeat after defeat? Mark my words, if we do not draft Vince, the first interception carr throws, or the first time he gets "injured" and goes out for one play and then happily strolls back onto the field, the fans of the Texans will be so outraged and angry that we skiped on Vince for keeping Carr that the franchise will be forever marked, and so will the players. Team morale will sink to an incredible new low as will ticket sales, and the franchise will take YEARS to recover.

3. Vince Young is a born winner. He is a leader of his team even more than an athlete. He has that x-factor that whenever the offense steps on the field, they know they can win no matter what the circumstances. If you have ever heard anyone who played with Elway, for example, you will learn he had the exact same presence on the field; when he stepped on it there was no doubt that hope still existed, that you could still come from behind and pull it off. I know, to compare Vince to elway so soon is almost a herassy, but I believe I have seen this quality of Elway in him by watching him these past two years. Believe in the X-factor or not, Vince Young does have the numbers to be drafted anyways even if you don't think he has the winning grit.

michaelm
01-15-2006, 02:49 AM
Why replace a productive RB that has a viable back-up with a rookie flash in the pan RB who would mch rather shake rattle and roll his way out of trouble behind the LOS. Didn't really work in UT game against a pretty stout D.


I guess it's either a tribute to VY's outstanding game, or just the fact that RB didn't go off like crazy that makes people totally discount his numbers.
Bush had a combined 170yds +or- and a td... against what you call a pretty stout D.
That's not what the media hype made people predict but still, it's pretty decent. Add in his return yardage and he had something like 270 yds total.
I see your point, just like I see many others on both sides of this debate, but I tell you one thing...
IF RB comes to the Texans next season, I can't wait to see what HE does with those little dump off type passes that DD gets all the time.
I mean, get this guy the ball on the other side of the defensive line in open space and there could be a td from anywhere at any time... IMO

michaelm
01-15-2006, 02:54 AM
...

Isn't it time to log off, create a new profile and log back in with it some you can pimp VY as a totally different person... again... :brickwall

TheOgre
01-15-2006, 09:34 AM
I am an UT alum, but I try to be objective about his NFL potential. My take on Young.
Strengths:
1. He has leadership skills and that intangible "it" that is characteristic of perenniel winners.

2. He has shown a great ability to work through his progressions, and make the "right" decision most of the time. (i.e. he can read defenses)

3. He has a combination of size, speed and strength that make him difficult to take down.

Reservations:
1. He employed the zone offense in college. It allowed him to play to his strengths of running the ball and throwing pinpoint short passes. He did throw downfield some, but I personally wouldn't consider that his strong area. Whatever coaching staff gets him, they will likely make some major adjustments to translate his skills into the NFL. He likely won't be able to run with the ball nearly as much.

2. There is a high probability that a coaching staff will mess with his "slinging poop" motion. It is just one more area that could mess up the college to pro product that is Vince Young.

3. Throughout his career at Texas, it seemed like Young's mistakes came in pairs. He often turned the ball over twice in a short period of time. I will say this didn't seem to an issue this season, but it was extremely prevalent in 2003 and 2004. If he is playing for a far less talented team (these Texans), then I would be afraid this trend my return.

4. If we really want a polished QB with that "it" and is pretty much a given to excel in the NFL, why not talk about Matt Lineart? The guy hits every pass and shows a winner's mentality. He is pretty much NFL ready too. You wouldn't have to tweak his game nearly as much. He took his team to 3 National Championship Games in 3 years. He had some huge comebacks through the years. He dominated a top-10 defense in the second half of the Rose Bowl, whereas Young dominated the 39th (?) overall defense. He led them to TD's on 4 consecutive drives and and scores on 5 straight possessions. They didn't lose the Rose Bowl because of him.

If we take VY, I would be happy, but I don't think it is the "smart" move. Heck, if we want a new QB (if Carr isn't the answer), I'd MUCH rather have Lineart.

Sincerely,
Apparently the only Longhorn Alum that hasn't drank the kool-aid

kingh99
01-15-2006, 10:58 AM
I was as much in awe of VY as anyone after the Rose Bowl. Now that a little time has passed I'm back on Reggie Bush and I hope and think most fans are going through the same regaining of their senses.

Did you watch the QB's in the playoffs so far, especially in last nights matchup of Tom Brady and Jake Plummer? Man, Brady plays the game at a different speed and the zip he puts on the ball, no way VY has this or will have it in the next couple of years. He's got to learn to take a drop. He's got to learn not just quick but super quick reads and finally he's got to be able to put the ball in tight places.

Sorry but when you consider these necessary attributes you have to think Carr is closer than Young. So I'm thinking Reggie Bush and a bunch of O and D Line picks. Reggie Bush is going to be a great pick!

Dr. Toro
01-15-2006, 11:48 AM
[QUOTE=TheOgre]

Reservations:
1. He employed the zone offense in college. It allowed him to play to his strengths of running the ball and throwing pinpoint short passes. He did throw downfield some, but I personally wouldn't consider that his strong area. Whatever coaching staff gets him, they will likely make some major adjustments to translate his skills into the NFL. He likely won't be able to run with the ball nearly as much.

2. There is a high probability that a coaching staff will mess with his "slinging poop" motion. It is just one more area that could mess up the college to pro product that is Vince Young.



Really?

1. What Vince Young did you watch this year? He threw the deep ball great. The longest pass from each of VY's games were 40, 63, 22 (on 14 attempts vs. Rice), 41, 64, 62, 75, 28 (@OSU), 55, 64, 25 (A&M), 38 (17 attempts vs CU), 26 (Rose Bowl). He led the nation in YPA. How do you do that "throwing downfield some"? Thats 8 games with a pass over 40 yards, and 6 with a pass over 50 yards. Vince throws downfield very well, the naked eye and the numbers back that up.

2. Thanks Bill Simmons.

dirty steve
01-15-2006, 12:40 PM
1. For the sake of bringing people into the games. I don't know if anyone was at the San Francisco game, but my friends couldn't even give their tickets away. Vince Young would get every UT fan in the vicinity into the stadium, win or lose.


maybe they give their tickets away because they were playing in SAN FRANCISCO.

uhcougar08
01-15-2006, 02:10 PM
Thanks for the update.

There's a lot of confidence in the local media that the Texans will choose VY. I have no confidence that any such thing will happen, but it's interesting that so many of the media guys do.

John and Lance were on 610 with Richard Justice this week, and they all thought it was a no-brainer - McNair is going to want VY. I swear, I feel like I'm missing something.

It is because he is a hometown boy. What is Reggie Bush played at Texas and VY played at USC. Don't you see how the local media does this crap. 610 AM has lost it with all their VY crap. I have talked to around 20 people in the last week that will not listen to them anymore, because they are so much on VY manhood, if you know what I mean. At least Charlie P. on ESPN 790 does not take a biased opinion on this subject. By the way, Rich Lord is the worst one of the bunch, he should be fired. Media makes me sick.

Htown34s
01-15-2006, 04:32 PM
Pfffft! Those blasts ARE deserved. If VY went to Penn State, and lived in Philadephia, there wouldn't even be a debate in this town, or on this board. (But they'd be going crazy on the Eagles MB, though)

I wished he DID go to Penn State so that all of the UT haters would shut up.

It amazes me how someone's bias towards a certain university would blind them to once-a-generation talent.

MorKnolle
01-15-2006, 07:26 PM
Really?

1. What Vince Young did you watch this year? He threw the deep ball great. The longest pass from each of VY's games were 40, 63, 22 (on 14 attempts vs. Rice), 41, 64, 62, 75, 28 (@OSU), 55, 64, 25 (A&M), 38 (17 attempts vs CU), 26 (Rose Bowl). He led the nation in YPA. How do you do that "throwing downfield some"? Thats 8 games with a pass over 40 yards, and 6 with a pass over 50 yards. Vince throws downfield very well, the naked eye and the numbers back that up.

2. Thanks Bill Simmons.

I have to agree with the other poster, Vince did have some deep passes but many of his long pass plays were not that long of a throw and a good run after the catch, and many of the long throws he did make were pretty badly underthrown and if he didn't have 6-5 WRs jumping over CBs from bad defenses they would not have been complete passes, and those won't work in the NFL.

I wished he DID go to Penn State so that all of the UT haters would shut up.

It amazes me how someone's bias towards a certain university would blind them to once-a-generation talent.

Outside of Texas and UT fans, very few people regard Vince Young as a "once-a-generation talent" and hardly any of them think the Texans should draft him at #1. Vince should be a good NFL QB one day, but I agree that if he went to Penn State or Miami, we wouldn't have any kind of push from the local media to draft him.

Vinny
01-15-2006, 07:27 PM
When you are up 40-3, or 57-12 you aren't throwing deep much. Stats are meaningless unless in context.

jetdoc
01-15-2006, 07:32 PM
He said Kubiak will be the Texans new Head Coach. (Which I agree with.)

He said the Texans WILL draft Vince Young. It was kind of creepy because it sounded more like he was campaigning for it to happen, not reporting on the Texans.

Sirius NFL Radio being national is pretty unbiased by local fan pressure. The hosts of the show seemed a little shocked. I think most of them think Reggie Bush is a no brainer for the Texans. Because if you draft VY, you won't have Carr or Bush on the field. Most of them still see Carr as having an upside.

Not sure if anyone else caught it.

According to ESPN, Reggie Bush had Pete Carrol speak with the Texans BEFORE he announced that he was leaving. To ME, that tells me that he was checking to see if they really were going to draft him first! If there was even the SLIGHTEST chance that he'd end up in New Orleans, I think he'd have stayed for his Senior season at USC. :twocents:

ArlingtonTexan
01-15-2006, 07:33 PM
Really?


Outside of Texas and UT fans, very few people regard Vince Young as a "once-a-generation talent" and hardly any of them think the Texans should draft him at #1. Vince should be a good NFL QB one day, but I agree that if he went to Penn State or Miami, we wouldn't have any kind of push from the local media to draft him.

Oh, you need to listen to national radio a little more.

edo783
01-15-2006, 07:55 PM
When you are up 40-3, or 57-12 you aren't throwing deep much. Stats are meaningless unless in context.

Not sure I follow the logic there Vinny. How did they get up 40-3 if they weren't throwing at least some? Sure they probably didn't throw much after, particularly deep stuff after they were up a bunch, but I would assume they did before then to get up. Can't get the Texas games here, so I can't say one way or the other, but it just seems like it would logicaly be that way.

Vinny
01-15-2006, 07:57 PM
Not sure I follow the logic there Vinny. How did they get up 40-3 if they weren't throwing at least some? Sure they probably didn't throw much after, particularly deep stuff after they were up a bunch, but I would assume they did before then to get up. Can't get the Texas games here, so I can't say one way or the other, but it just seems like it would logicaly be that way.Texas runs the football. Why pass it when you are ahead and winning on the ground? Stats are great in Baseball comparing great hitters, or to measure a great pitcher by era...but you have to watch the games in football and look past a stat line to form good opinions on players. If you just wanted to use stats in football then the Hawaii program or the Tech program QB's will look great all the time.

Dr. Toro
01-15-2006, 08:46 PM
I have to agree with the other poster, Vince did have some deep passes but many of his long pass plays were not that long of a throw and a good run after the catch, and many of the long throws he did make were pretty badly underthrown and if he didn't have 6-5 WRs jumping over CBs from bad defenses they would not have been complete passes, and those won't work in the NFL.


NFL scouts place a huge emphasis on where a QB places the ball and sets up his receivers to run after the catch. From what I've seen and heard from scouts, Young does this very well. We can agree to disagree about the deep throws, he threw some perfect long balls this year, he underthrew some (but guys do it in the NFL, sometimes intentionally... Santana Moss and Randy Moss love 'em underthrown).

Why is it when Vince succeeds passing its because he was playing bad defenses with tremendous receivers? Is it any different for Leinart? Leinart still ended up with a lower NFL QB rating (108.5 to 111.6) and a lower YPA (8.85 to 9.34). Anyone would agree that Leinart had better talent around him, so why do his numbers prove he's an NFL ready passer and Young's don't?

Concerning his arm strength, find highlights of his Army All-America game, he avoids a sack and throws a ball 70 yards... it was incomplete. That's not good if you're playing Super Tecmo Bowl, but it should get it done in the NFL.

texman8
01-15-2006, 10:59 PM
Yeah, I was there for the " Bush Bowl"......Boy, do they need a new stadium and $25 for a pitiful parking lot . I can say the best thing about VY is his poise and leadership qualities. Not sure about Carr's. If I can trade Carr for a 1st or 2nd,I would do it.