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F-minus67
01-14-2006, 01:09 AM
I was wondering if Bush is drafted, how many ways can he be used? I mean Bush and DD could become our verson of thunder and lighting. In the past RBs have lined up as WRs in games, so imagen Bush linning up in the slot then motioning into the backfield with Davis, the options are limitless. Can anyone else see this or am I just a victim of sleep deprivation?

TexansTrueFan
01-14-2006, 01:12 AM
ya get some sleep buddy :). na i dunno i jusst dont see us drafting bush when we signed D.D to a new contract last year. plus i think D.D is our answer for RB.

Big B Texan Fan
01-14-2006, 01:35 AM
Bush and DD don't have any thunder. They're all lightning.

TexansTrueFan
01-14-2006, 01:37 AM
Bush and DD don't have any thunder. They're all lightning.


no D.D more power a lil speed, u ever see him in the open field i could catch him "well maybe not"

MightyTExan
01-14-2006, 08:42 AM
All I want to see is AJ, Mathis, And Bush on the field. So much speed, what can the defense do?

Kaiser Toro
01-14-2006, 08:46 AM
He is fast for college. The players will be faster in the NFL. Getting to the edge is not as easy in the NFL, he will have to shake his allergic reaction to going between the tackles. If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes.

bdiddy
01-14-2006, 12:27 PM
He is fast for college. The players will be faster in the NFL. Getting to the edge is not as easy in the NFL, he will have to shake his allergic reaction to going between the tackles. If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes.

The dude ran a 4.25 in spring ball and a 4.33 during another workout, that is fast no matter what level you but him on. Reggie Bush will be one of the top 10 fastest guys in the NFL and he has remarkable running instincts. He is unparalleled in the open field. Are guys faster in the NFL? Yes, but not nearly as fast as Bush. He, Mathis, and AJ would give us three players that run 4.4 or below (with Bush and Mathis having broken 4.3). That is just scary. With more protection the Texans will be able to stretch the field.

HOOK'EM
01-15-2006, 09:16 PM
.............I agree with you MightyTexan!:twocents:

Bubbajwp
01-15-2006, 09:43 PM
All I want to see is AJ, Mathis, And Bush on the field. So much speed, what can the defense do?
Sack Carr instantly.:brickwall

Johnny Utah
01-15-2006, 09:57 PM
Good luck for any defense that want's to cover Bush out of the backfield with a LB. That will cause the biggest mismatches right there.

Runner
01-15-2006, 10:07 PM
I think that those three would create extreme match-up problems for our opponents. An offense that effectively moves Bush from RB to the slot would exacerbate this if we can force coverage by a safety rather than a nickel back. We need to have enough offensive sets and options to confuse the defense.

As far as sack Carr instantly, I'm not ready to write off next season yet. Just the change to average (or above) offensive coaching would be equivalent to adding a first round o-lineman, IMO. I think quality coaching will make that much of a difference with our linemen and Carr. Add "another" lineman through free agency or the draft and I think it could be a decent year for the offense.

Wolf
01-15-2006, 10:49 PM
I look at it as it would be a kurt Warner syndrome.

We'd use Bush like ST.Louis used Faulk and yet we don't have a #2 or #3 WR that would come close to what the Rams had back then.. We also don't have the OL that the rams had

We'd spread the formation out with Bush out there to create "matchup" problems only to find defenses would rush Carr even worse ... Warner took a beating and to me hasn't been the same QB ..and playing for Arizona hasn't helped him anymore

Big B Texan Fan
01-15-2006, 10:55 PM
I look at it as it would be a kurt Warner syndrome.

We'd use Bush like ST.Louis used Faulk and yet we don't have a #2 or #3 WR that would come close to what the Rams had back then.. We also don't have the OL that the rams had

We'd spread the formation out with Bush out there to create "matchup" problems only to find defenses would rush Carr even worse ... Warner took a beating and to me hasn't been the same QB ..and playing for Arizona hasn't helped him anymore
Not to mention the Rams did not even draft Faulk. The colts did and they couldn't make it work. The Rams did and they had all the right pieces in place to do something special. But it took lots of time for Faulk to become the player he was slated to become. That offense was perfect. Bush will come into a hornets nest of issues here as will VY. We've already got a Faulk but Carr wil never be Warner.

dat_boy_yec
01-15-2006, 11:09 PM
The way I see it Johnson is deep threat #1 Mathis with a little practice at pulling in the passes would be #2 towards the end of the season Carr utilized Rivers to great effect so he or a new TE could be #3 not a deep threat but a threat nonetheless. Armstrong and Gaffney also have to be accounted for by the defense. Bush would also be a threat, so this would already put alot of pressure on the defense. Add in the fact that you could line up Wells and Bush in the backfield making the defense think you are going to use Wells as a FB and then split Bush to the slot. Bush would present alot of problems for any defense. Would they be able to key in on him. No because then they would have A.J. and J.M. scoring on them. If the defense accounts for all these guys they would be stretching themselves and leave the TE open and these scenarios don't even take into account D.D. who is another threat. The line I think with 1-2 additions in FA or draft and good o-line coaching will go a long way to improve our pass blocking. Our offense would have the potential to compete with anyone. To me getting Bush 2 ln men or 1lnman and 1 TE would go a long way. Leaving the rest of the draft and FA to deal with Defense.

texplayer2
01-16-2006, 12:46 AM
He is fast for college. The players will be faster in the NFL. Getting to the edge is not as easy in the NFL, he will have to shake his allergic reaction to going between the tackles. If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes.

His Heisman run was off tackle into the secondary and then out to the side, spin on a dime, and then across the field for 6.

non natural texan
01-16-2006, 03:34 AM
He is fast for college. The players will be faster in the NFL. Getting to the edge is not as easy in the NFL, he will have to shake his allergic reaction to going between the tackles. If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes.

Two things.

1. "He is fast for college" - So is Vince Young

2. "If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes." (I may have picked up sarcasm here when there was none... if so sorry but please, read on)

Was it just me or do the coaches call the plays... remember my short-minded friends, in training camp the talk was all about using a short passing game with tons of slants and hitch routes to compensate for the poor o-line... and to hopefully open up the deep ball (plan A didn't work so the deep ball threat never materialized).
In addition, this was Palmers plan but Pendry barely changed it at all, in fact he may have made it even more predictable.

So the short passing wasn't all Carr's fault... was it as bad in the first 3 years, NO. I don't think Carr just decided in the offseason that he didn't like to throw passes longer then 5 yards.

HOOK'EM
01-16-2006, 11:05 PM
Bush WILL end up with a better pro career than faulk.

Bubbajwp
01-17-2006, 09:14 AM
4.2 or 4.3 whichever he runs in the 40 are both fast for the pros.

If they have to they can make plays just so he can get to the outside like screens or whatever.

HOOK'EM
01-18-2006, 05:05 AM
No one can stop da Bush!:redtowel:

Koolbrz
01-31-2006, 10:33 PM
I was wondering if Bush is drafted, how many ways can he be used? I mean Bush and DD could become our verson of thunder and lighting. In the past RBs have lined up as WRs in games, so imagen Bush linning up in the slot then motioning into the backfield with Davis, the options are limitless. Can anyone else see this or am I just a victim of sleep deprivation?


I can see were you coming from...You will be able to do so much more with Bush. With his speed alone defense's will have to back up. Will not be able to blitz you all the time. I can see him in the backfield, in the slot, put him in motion, catching balls coming out of the backfield, maybe even putting him at the wideout position and running a reverse. Just so much you can do with this guy. I do hope they do themselves a favor and Draft him.

angeltexus
01-31-2006, 11:19 PM
I can see were you coming from...You will be able to do so much more with Bush. With his speed alone defense's will have to back up. Will not be able to blitz you all the time. I can see him in the backfield, in the slot, put him in motion, catching balls coming out of the backfield, maybe even putting him at the wideout position and running a reverse. Just so much you can do with this guy. I do hope they do themselves a favor and Draft him.Everything you mention USC coaches did in the Rose Bowl and he was not effective. One play outside was all but for the most part he was shut down by college players imagine what Freeney and all the real defensive star are going to do to this guy. I will not be surprised if he gets hurt all year like some fella named Cedric Benson. :cool:

dat_boy_yec
01-31-2006, 11:30 PM
Everything you mention USC coaches did in the Rose Bowl and he was not effective. One play outside was all but for the most part he was shut down by college players imagine what Freeney and all the real defensive star are going to do to this guy. I will not be surprised if he gets hurt all year like some fella named Cedric Benson. :cool:
How many times did he touch the ball? Not many, how many runs did he break over 20 yds.? 3 1st when he tried that lateral, he made a mistake, but the run was over 20 what about the touchdown run, and the catch in the last few minutes. For the most part he wasnt used enough. If Freeney don't make the initial contact he would be burnt just like anybody else. Benson was used alone in the backfield wearing himself down, so Bush playing in tandem is actually an advantage.

kbourda
01-31-2006, 11:37 PM
How many times did he touch the ball? Not many, how many runs did he break over 20 yds.? 3 1st when he tried that lateral, he made a mistake, but the run was over 20 what about the touchdown run, and the catch in the last few minutes. For the most part he wasnt used enough. If Freeney don't make the initial contact he would be burnt just like anybody else. Benson was used alone in the backfield wearing himself down, so Bush playing in tandem is actually an advantage.

But if he isn't an "every down player" that is a disadvantage. If a defense is aware when he is on the field wouldn't you think that they could have a better grasp of where he is. Saying this I believe Reggie Bush is good, I just don't believe he's what has been advertised. Just my :twocents:

Big B Texan Fan
01-31-2006, 11:39 PM
How many times did he touch the ball? Not many, how many runs did he break over 20 yds.? 3 1st when he tried that lateral, he made a mistake, but the run was over 20 what about the touchdown run, and the catch in the last few minutes. For the most part he wasnt used enough. If Freeney don't make the initial contact he would be burnt just like anybody else. Benson was used alone in the backfield wearing himself down, so Bush playing in tandem is actually an advantage.
He did not touch the ball that many times cuz he wasn't effective towards winning the game. Sure he can run all over the place in between the 20's but what are you gonna do when you have 1st and ten from the other teams 22 yrd line with lil' time left and you're losing. He wasn't even trusted in the big game at a very important time in it. He wasn't even trusted in the Notre Dame game with the season on the line 2 plays in a row nor was he the option on the 4th and 9 that gave them new life and put them in the 3rd and goal (immaculate fumble out of bounds by linert that stops the clock) and 4th and goal where he did find a way to get some of the spot light by cheating/pushing leinert into the end zone for the win. My bad, I guess they couldn't have done it without him. :challenge

TEXANS84
01-31-2006, 11:44 PM
ya get some sleep buddy :). na i dunno i jusst dont see us drafting bush when we signed D.D to a new contract last year. plus i think D.D is our answer for RB.

As much as I love DD, when he's on the sideline injured for 2-4 games per season it doesn't do our running game any good.

A runningback by committe is a good thing to have. As aj said on another post, the Denver comitte managed to get 2200 rushing yards all together.

Plus Bush can move out of the tailback position into the slot wide reciever, so he's more versatile as an all around player.

powda
01-31-2006, 11:46 PM
i think wells could play a special role in this offense as far as contributing to match up problems...consider:

wells as a fullback/pass protector/effective single back threat...

how does that relate to bush?

if wells can function efffectively as a fullback opposing defenses are forced to run more 4-3 packages against a wells/bush backfield. heres where the mismatch happens...bush is motioned into the slot and a defense is forced to cover him with a lb or safety which clearly favors the texans.

if the texans cant function effectively with a wells/bush backfield, defenses run more nickle packages and the speed of the extra cornerback nuteralizes bush if hes motioned into the slot.

i expect to see a serious misdirection offense and all of those dumpoff passes davis has been catching will be more effective with bush...if he can get the ball consistently in space we will be succesful this year...

bigTEXan8
01-31-2006, 11:48 PM
To me, the 40 can be deceiving. Where as, 4.2-4.3 speed is impressive, I'm more concerned with his acceleration, and patience. To me, Bush is going to be doing a lot of sweeps, stretches, and counters. How he waits for those holes to open, and then accelerates through the hole, that's what I'm concerned with. Hopefully, if we do draft Bush, he can translate well from the college acceleration to NFL acceleration.

Runner
02-01-2006, 12:09 AM
i think wells could play a special role in this offense as far as contributing to match up problems...consider:

wells as a fullback/pass protector/effective single back threat...

how does that relate to bush?

if wells can function efffectively as a fullback opposing defenses are forced to run more 4-3 packages against a wells/bush backfield. heres where the mismatch happens...bush is motioned into the slot and a defense is forced to cover him with a lb or safety which clearly favors the texans.

if the texans cant function effectively with a wells/bush backfield, defenses run more nickle packages and the speed of the extra cornerback nuteralizes bush if hes motioned into the slot.

i expect to see a serious misdirection offense and all of those dumpoff passes davis has been catching will be more effective with bush...if he can get the ball consistently in space we will be succesful this year...


These types of ideas are what sway me from my trade down stance toward drafting Bush. The flexibililty he could bring is amazing.

As far as him being an every down RB - he doesn't have to be - he could be an every down RB/receiver.

nunusguy
02-01-2006, 12:31 PM
To me, the 40 can be deceiving. Where as, 4.2-4.3 speed is impressive, I'm more concerned with his acceleration, and patience. To me, Bush is going to be doing a lot of sweeps, stretches, and counters. How he waits for those holes to open, and then accelerates through the hole, that's what I'm concerned with. Hopefully, if we do draft Bush, he can translate well from the college acceleration to NFL acceleration.
Bush has the "best" kind of speed for football because he is quicker, more
explosive at the start of a sprint that he is as a finisher. I expect his 40
times, which is of course an extremely short distance, to be comparable to
the best times posted in the combine. Jerome Mathis, on the other hand, is better top end with a running start so the use of his speed is greatest in kick offs when he's going near full tilt by the time the coverage arrives. This
is supported by the fact that Mathis was best at a longer sprint, the 200.

tulexan
02-01-2006, 12:36 PM
These types of ideas are what sway me from my trade down stance toward drafting Bush. The flexibililty he could bring is amazing.

As far as him being an every down RB - he doesn't have to be - he could be an every down RB/receiver.

Kind of like Marshall Faulk

bigTEXan8
02-01-2006, 12:37 PM
Bush has the "best" kind of speed for football because he is quicker, more
explosive at the start of a sprint that he is as a finisher. I expect his 40
times, which is of course an extremely short distance, to be comparable to
the best times posted in the combine. Jerome Mathis, on the other hand, is better top end with a running start so the use of his speed is greatest in kick offs when he's going near full tilt by the time the coverage arrives. This
is supported by the fact that Mathis was best at a longer sprint, the 200.

Oh...I totally agree with you. Mathis is more long distance and he is short distance. Mathis did a good job at improving his acceleration towards the end of the year. Bush will be a welcomed addition, because I think with his acceleration, he creates matchup problems for safeties and LBs, the exact people who are going to be guarding him.

tulexan
02-01-2006, 12:42 PM
Oh...I totally agree with you. Mathis is more long distance and he is short distance. Mathis did a good job at improving his acceleration towards the end of the year. Bush will be a welcomed addition, because I think with his acceleration, he creates matchup problems for safeties and LBs, the exact people who are going to be guarding him.

I think this is why Mathis is a good kick returner, but not a very good punt returner. Kick returns are all about flat out speed, and making moves 20 or 25 yards into your run. Punt returns you have to start making moves immediately and have great initial acceleration. Mathis seemed to like to try to run backwards and sweep around trying to build up speed, but then would get tackled for a major loss.

O.G.
02-01-2006, 01:39 PM
Bush and DD don't have any thunder. They're all lightning.

If they are able to resign Wells, couldn't be Thunder?

Malloy
02-01-2006, 01:45 PM
If he is with the Texans then he is in a good place since the current QB maybe the best QB in the league at throwing less than 5 yard routes.

hehe :)

HoustonFrog
02-01-2006, 01:59 PM
As much as I love DD, when he's on the sideline injured for 2-4 games per season it doesn't do our running game any good.

A runningback by committe is a good thing to have. As aj said on another post, the Denver comitte managed to get 2200 rushing yards all together.

Plus Bush can move out of the tailback position into the slot wide reciever, so he's more versatile as an all around player.

DD is NOT a franchise back. He can't stay healthy and I have yet to see him in one game single handedly win a game. Does he contribute alot?Sure but is he going to break a 60 yarder when you need to ice a game or score in the final minute?No. Bush is closely the same size as Portis was coming out. Portis hit the outside hard and then gained bulk to run for the Skins. I think Bush is the type of guy that even if he only touched it 15 times, the other plays the defense will be looking for him. That opens things up.

nunusguy
02-01-2006, 02:03 PM
I think this is why Mathis is a good kick returner, but not a very good punt returner. Kick returns are all about flat out speed, and making moves 20 or 25 yards into your run. Punt returns you have to start making moves immediately and have great initial acceleration. Mathis seemed to like to try to run backwards and sweep around trying to build up speed, but then would get tackled for a major loss.
Good points there Tulexan in clarifying some difference between kick-off and punt returns.

Meloy
02-01-2006, 03:04 PM
I think that those three would create extreme match-up problems for our opponents. An offense that effectively moves Bush from RB to the slot would exacerbate this if we can force coverage by a safety rather than a nickel back. We need to have enough offensive sets and options to confuse the defense.

As far as sack Carr instantly, I'm not ready to write off next season yet. Just the change to average (or above) offensive coaching would be equivalent to adding a first round o-lineman, IMO. I think quality coaching will make that much of a difference with our linemen and Carr. Add "another" lineman through free agency or the draft and I think it could be a decent year for the offense. Is there going to be an Olineman of quality available @ #33? Hopefully, Pitts will be able to hold down left tackle. Wand may look better in Kubiak's scheme. Please, please, please! I promise I'll be good if you just give me one good season. :yahoo:

Meloy
02-01-2006, 03:30 PM
He did not touch the ball that many times cuz he wasn't effective towards winning the game. Sure he can run all over the place in between the 20's but what are you gonna do when you have 1st and ten from the other teams 22 yrd line with lil' time left and you're losing. He wasn't even trusted in the big game at a very important time in it. He wasn't even trusted in the Notre Dame game with the season on the line 2 plays in a row nor was he the option on the 4th and 9 that gave them new life and put them in the 3rd and goal (immaculate fumble out of bounds by linert that stops the clock) and 4th and goal where he did find a way to get some of the spot light by cheating/pushing leinert into the end zone for the win. My bad, I guess they couldn't have done it without him. :challenge
Yeah but won't it be exciting to watch him run to the 20? And maybe just maybe, AJ and Mathis can do it also? And then maybe just maybe, the defense will be focusing on those three and DD or Wells or the tight end or Gafney can pick up 12 - 15 yds on a carry/catch? I think we can get to the red zone 6 times per game. 2 touch downs and 4 field goals is reasonable. 26 points should be interesting.:twocents:

exclude
02-01-2006, 03:48 PM
Yeah but won't it be exciting to watch him run to the 20? And maybe just maybe, AJ and Mathis can do it also? And then maybe just maybe, the defense will be focusing on those three and DD or Wells or the tight end or Gafney can pick up 12 - 15 yds on a carry/catch? I think we can get to the red zone 6 times per game. 2 touch downs and 4 field goals is reasonable. 26 points should be interesting.

Look that guy is a Bush hater, you can't sway him no way.

He probably thinks it was dumb luck when Bush ran around the end for a TD.

bigTEXan8
02-01-2006, 03:52 PM
He did not touch the ball that many times cuz he wasn't effective towards winning the game. Sure he can run all over the place in between the 20's but what are you gonna do when you have 1st and ten from the other teams 22 yrd line with lil' time left and you're losing. He wasn't even trusted in the big game at a very important time in it. He wasn't even trusted in the Notre Dame game with the season on the line 2 plays in a row nor was he the option on the 4th and 9 that gave them new life and put them in the 3rd and goal (immaculate fumble out of bounds by linert that stops the clock) and 4th and goal where he did find a way to get some of the spot light by cheating/pushing leinert into the end zone for the win. My bad, I guess they couldn't have done it without him. :challenge

The reason why Bush wasn't effective in winning the game was because Leinart was all over the place. Leinart and his buddy Carrol are the ones that cost USC that game. I'm not saying Bush carried that team to as close as they were, but he played a significant role in getting them close. Bush did his job.

Texans Horror
02-01-2006, 03:59 PM
Is there going to be an Olineman of quality available @ #33? Hopefully, Pitts will be able to hold down left tackle. Wand may look better in Kubiak's scheme. Please, please, please! I promise I'll be good if you just give me one good season. :yahoo:

The draft is deep this year. The Texans are in a good place, IMO, to get the equivalent of a second first-round pick at #33. I think there will still be a few quality linemen around at that time. I say Winston, only because that's my drum, but I have heard other names mentioned, too. In fact, my belief is that without trading Bush, the Texans will still be able to pick a quality TE and lineman out of this draft, and have decent rooom left to work on the D.

El Tejano
02-01-2006, 04:56 PM
I am thinking the same thing. Even after looking at the Senior Bowl, I was realizing there is some deep talent in this years draft.

jdog
02-01-2006, 05:20 PM
I think we should draft Bush and use a single back formation with Davis and a four receiver set every down with Johnson, Gaffney, Mathis, and Bush. At least, I will be doing this with Madden '07 on Rookie level.

Koolbrz
02-01-2006, 08:23 PM
Everything you mention USC coaches did in the Rose Bowl and he was not effective. One play outside was all but for the most part he was shut down by college players imagine what Freeney and all the real defensive star are going to do to this guy. I will not be surprised if he gets hurt all year like some fella named Cedric Benson. :cool:


In all reality he did better than what you think. Check your numbers and you will see that he touched the ball what a total of maybe 15-18 times in the game. Not his fault, if the coach would have fed him the ball more USC would have won the game. In his limited play he had a combined total of 170+ yds. and a touchdown! All against the 2nd ranked defense in the nation. :neener: That is better than what you think! Anyone, can get hurt playing football only problem is that with Bush's quickness defenders can not get a clean hit on him. Sorry to dissappoint you, but this guy should be and hopefully will be a Houston Texan.:texans:

LikeABoss
02-01-2006, 09:03 PM
Leinart and his buddy Carrol are the ones that cost USC that game.

I don't mean to go off topic, but please explain how Leinart cost USC the game? From my understanding, USC had a 38-26 lead on Texas and USC's defense blew it. When USC tried to comeback they had 8 seconds left with no timeouts because their last timeout was blown on that 2 pt conversion. I'm not understanding how Leinart's play cost them the game.

bigTEXan8
02-01-2006, 09:20 PM
I don't mean to go off topic, but please explain how Leinart cost USC the game? From my understanding, USC had a 38-26 lead on Texas and USC's defense blew it. When USC tried to comeback they had 8 seconds left with no timeouts because their last timeout was blown on that 2 pt conversion. I'm not understanding how Leinart's play cost them the game.

Leinart spent a lot of time standing there when they were driving to go for the tie. Each time he had Bush down under, and he hit him the first time. The 2nd time, Bush could have gotten an extra 20 yds when there was 8 seconds left. Instead, Leinart looked for the inzone and the win, and then he just ended up throwing the ball away.

Bush has nice speed. More or less back on topic. JM:twocents:

LikeABoss
02-01-2006, 09:25 PM
Leinart spent a lot of time standing there when they were driving to go for the tie. Each time he had Bush down under, and he hit him the first time. The 2nd time, Bush could have gotten an extra 20 yds when there was 8 seconds left. Instead, Leinart looked for the inzone and the win, and then he just ended up throwing the ball away.

Wow, just wow. This is just one big reach and based on that, this conversation does not need to continue any further.

*shakes his head in utter disbelief and leaves the thread laughing at the ridiculous logic he just witnessed*

TXurias
02-02-2006, 12:17 AM
The dude ran a 4.25 in spring ball and a 4.33 during another workout, that is fast no matter what level you but him on. Reggie Bush will be one of the top 10 fastest guys in the NFL and he has remarkable running instincts. He is unparalleled in the open field. Are guys faster in the NFL? Yes, but not nearly as fast as Bush. He, Mathis, and AJ would give us three players that run 4.4 or below (with Bush and Mathis having broken 4.3). That is just scary. With more protection the Texans will be able to stretch the field.
That's a great point if u run a 4.27/4.3 iTn college u are not gonna be slower in the NFL. The players will have to adjust to him. Look what Vick does in the open field. I really would like to see Bush in a Texans uniform and I think Carr will learn a lot from Kubiak and suprise a lot of people next year.

TXurias
02-02-2006, 12:24 AM
I look at it as it would be a kurt Warner syndrome.

We'd use Bush like ST.Louis used Faulk and yet we don't have a #2 or #3 WR that would come close to what the Rams had back then.. We also don't have the OL that the rams had

We'd spread the formation out with Bush out there to create "matchup" problems only to find defenses would rush Carr even worse ... Warner took a beating and to me hasn't been the same QB ..and playing for Arizona hasn't helped him anymore
Why is everyone so negative on this site. We do have a WR2 (Gaffney) who is a possesion receiver. Mathis the 3WR who can be Az Hakim in St L in and run the deep routes. Then U have Bush coming out of the backfield leavng an empty backfield and Carr will go for 300 everygame!!! Just kidding about the last one but that scenario could pose a problem for defenses.

TXurias
02-02-2006, 12:31 AM
Everything you mention USC coaches did in the Rose Bowl and he was not effective. One play outside was all but for the most part he was shut down by college players imagine what Freeney and all the real defensive star are going to do to this guy. I will not be surprised if he gets hurt all year like some fella named Cedric Benson. :cool:
What do u mean shut him down? He had a great game that was overshadowed by Young's MVP performance.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 12:32 AM
If our running game is as good as it can be with bush. I dont think we would have to worry about other teams blitzing to many linebackers.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 12:41 AM
What do u mean shut him down? He had a great game that was overshadowed by Young's MVP performance.
Young played a terrible defense and touched the ball every play
Bush played a great defense and touched the ball like 17 times :hmmm: lets use common sense.

Everybody knew that UT's gameplan was to stop Reggie Bush. If we knew that dont you think Pete Carroll knew it. UT put more DB's on the field to contain bush's speed. So what would you do run Bush to the outside or run White up the middle. Also I dont want to hear about Bush trying to lateral the ball because Young did the same thing and got lucky by a bad call by the ref.

Can someone explain to me when 170 yards and 1 TD became a bad game. Ill be waiting for my anwser.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 12:44 AM
it would be more beneficial to draft vincent young, a michael jordan in cleats, and see what the NFL has to defend such a rare talent.

of course this is my opinion.

he, vy, just seems like a rare, once in a lifetime talent. one that his team managed to shut reggie bush down.

how many teams have shut vy down???
More teams shut down VY than RB.
Texas A&m and Rice.

TXurias
02-02-2006, 12:46 AM
The draft is deep this year. The Texans are in a good place, IMO, to get the equivalent of a second first-round pick at #33. I think there will still be a few quality linemen around at that time. I say Winston, only because that's my drum, but I have heard other names mentioned, too. In fact, my belief is that without trading Bush, the Texans will still be able to pick a quality TE and lineman out of this draft, and have decent rooom left to work on the D.
I don't think TE is as big as a whole as everyone believes. I say we take either a LB or DB with the 3rd pick. Maybe find a TE with 4th/5th pick. Does anyone know who might be available with the those picks.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 12:53 AM
I don't think TE is as big as a whole as everyone believes. I say we take either a LB or DB with the 3rd pick. Maybe find a TE with 4th/5th pick. Does anyone know who might be available with the those picks.
One of these TEs would still be available in the third or fourth round.
Dominque Byrd
Tim Day
David Thomas
Anthony Fasano
Joe Klopfenstien

TXurias
02-02-2006, 12:57 AM
More teams shut down VY than RB.
Texas A&m and Rice.
That is too funny. VY one game and he's the Savior. Not saying he won't be good maybe even great but QB is the least of our needs. Carr had a bad season and so did the rest of the team. Some say these are excuses but when your top WR and RB play maybe 6 games together due to injuries and and a terrible offensive scheme.....oh and did I mention that we let go our best DB and LB go in the offseason.

stevo3883
02-02-2006, 01:03 AM
More teams shut down VY than RB.
Texas A&m and Rice.


did you seriously say Rice shut down vince?



I now know to never take anything you say seriously, thanks.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:04 AM
That is too funny. VY one game and he's the Savior. Not saying he won't be good maybe even great but QB is the least of our needs. Carr had a bad season and so did the rest of the team. Some say these are excuses but when your top WR and RB play maybe 6 games together due to injuries and and a terrible offensive scheme.....oh and did I mention that we let go our best DB and LB go in the offseason.
My brother is a cowboys fan and every time we talk about football he makes fun of the Texans for letting glenn go who is now a cowboy and Sharper. I think Sharper is now glad that everything happened the way it did.:trophy: If you know what I mean.

AustinJB
02-02-2006, 01:06 AM
Young played a terrible defense and touched the ball every play
Bush played a great defense and touched the ball like 17 times :hmmm: lets use common sense.

Everybody knew that UT's gameplan was to stop Reggie Bush. If we knew that dont you think Pete Carroll knew it. UT put more DB's on the field to contain bush's speed. So what would you do run Bush to the outside or run White up the middle. Also I dont want to hear about Bush trying to lateral the ball because Young did the same thing and got lucky by a bad call by the ref.

Can someone explain to me when 170 yards and 1 TD became a bad game. Ill be waiting for my anwser.

It's a bad game when....the most hyped player ever and Sportscenter's proclaimed "god" of football ONLY had 170 yds and 1 TD in the biggest game of the year and probably his career to date.

Add to that that USC's three-headed monster was outplayed by UT's ONE star (no, VY didn't do it by himself, but he did outplay USC's three.) Hmmmm....Heisman winner has 170 yds and 1 TD.....runner-up has 267 passing, 200 rushing and 3 TD. C'mon, if it was the other way around and VY had 170 yds, etc. and Bush had 467 total, etc. ya'll would be giving VY hell (many are anyway)....as is evidenced by the A&M game comments (and that game wasn't even as big as the RB.)

Yeah, why don't we use common sense.:rolleyes:

I won't even get into the USC gameplanned for VY too except it didn't matter, or if Bush was held in check b/c Texas put fast people on the field what will he do against an NFL defense. Almost sounds like you're making my point for me.:)

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:09 AM
did you seriously say Rice shut down vince?



I now know to never take anything you say seriously, thanks.
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/000_stats/2005/HTML/plyr0092.htm
Maybe im reading it wrong correct me if I am. please.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:15 AM
It's a bad game when....the most hyped player ever and Sportscenter's proclaimed "god" of football ONLY had 170 yds and 1 TD in the biggest game of the year and probably his career to date.

Add to that that USC's three-headed monster was outplayed by UT's ONE star (no, VY didn't do it by himself, but he did outplay USC's three.) Hmmmm....Heisman winner has 170 yds and 1 TD.....runner-up has 267 passing, 200 rushing and 3 TD. C'mon, if it was the other way around and VY had 170 yds, etc. and Bush had 467 total, etc. ya'll would be giving VY hell (many are anyway)....as is evidenced by the A&M game comments (and that game wasn't even as big as the RB.)

Yeah, why don't we use common sense.:rolleyes:

I won't even get into the USC gameplanned for VY too except it didn't matter, or if Bush was held in check b/c Texas put fast people on the field what will he do against an NFL defense. Almost sounds like you're making my point for me.:)
Im not question the fact the Young had a great game. But saying Bush got shutdown is just stupid. He touched the ball 19 times and had 177 yards which is about 9.31 yards every time he touched the ball. How is that possibly getting shutdown. That is your team not giving you the ball.

TXurias
02-02-2006, 01:16 AM
One of these TEs would still be available in the third or fourth round.
Dominque Byrd
Tim Day
David Thomas
Anthony Fasano
Joe Klopfenstien
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41375
check out this site and let me know what u think about our 3rd and 4th pick.

I think if we can get Byrd at with the 4th that would be great or maybe Thomas/Fassano in 5th.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:20 AM
http://www.footballsfuture.com/phpBB2/viewtopic.php?t=41375
check out this site and let me know what u think about our 3rd and 4th pick.

I think if we can get Byrd at with the 4th that would be great or maybe Thomas/Fassano in 5th.
IMO it depends on if we use the zone blocking scheme or not because Giles doesnt fit zone blocking. If we dont though he would be amazing. Im not to sure about the third round though I think it could be better.

AustinJB
02-02-2006, 01:20 AM
That is your team not giving you the ball.

See....THAT is my point. Why was his team not giving him the ball? Pete is a great coach....he didn't make a bad decision. He just put the person in the game that was playing better...White. If the Texas defense can limit Bush's success and has problems w/ White, that makes me think that White is a better pro prospect.

AustinJB
02-02-2006, 01:23 AM
http://www.mackbrown-texasfootball.com/000_stats/2005/HTML/plyr0092.htm
Maybe im reading it wrong correct me if I am. please.

You're reading it right. VY had 77 rushing yds on 8 carries (9.63 avg) and was 8 for 14 w/ 101 passing yds.

Did you also notice that VY left the game w/ 10 min. left in the 3rd quarter b/c his team was up 45-0?

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:27 AM
See....THAT is my point. Why was his team not giving him the ball? Pete is a great coach....he didn't make a bad decision. He just put the person in the game that was playing better...White. If the Texas defense can limit Bush's success and has problems w/ White, that makes me think that White is a better pro prospect.
Here is the way I see it.

If there is five seconds left in a basketball game and on one side you have Tracy McGrady and on other side you have David Wesly. The defense is obviously going to make Wesly be the one to beat them by double teaming McGrady or somthing. Here is the question do you try and fake out the defense by giving the ball to Wesly or do you give the ball to your best and most trusted player McGrady. Personally im giving the ball to McGrady.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:28 AM
You're reading it right. VY had 77 rushing yds on 8 carries (9.63 avg) and was 8 for 14 w/ 101 passing yds.

Did you also notice that VY left the game w/ 10 min. left in the 3rd quarter b/c his team was up 45-0?
I figured it was something like that I dont remember the game. It was way to long ago.

AustinJB
02-02-2006, 01:39 AM
Here is the way I see it.

If there is five seconds left in a basketball game and on one side you have Tracy McGrady and on other side you have David Wesly. The defense is obviously going to make Wesly be the one to beat them by double teaming McGrady or somthing. Here is the question do you try and fake out the defense by giving the ball to Wesly or do you give the ball to your best and most trusted player McGrady. Personally im giving the ball to McGrady.

Are you agreeing w/ me or trying to make a point against me??

I'd give the ball to McGrady too....that is what Pete did b/c White was the "McGrady" in that game. White was the one coming up big all day....not Bush. Which, again...makes me wonder who will be better in the NFL.:ok:

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:42 AM
Are you agreeing w/ me or trying to make a point against me??

I'd give the ball to McGrady too....that is what Pete did b/c White was the "McGrady" in that game. White was the one coming up big all day....not Bush. Which, again...makes me wonder who will be better in the NFL.:ok:
IMO Pete made White the McGrady in that game before the game ever started.

AustinJB
02-02-2006, 01:47 AM
IMO Pete made White the McGrady in that game before the game ever started.

I respectfully disagree....I think it was the fact that White was running right through the middle of the Texas defense and getting huge chunks of yds and Bush was less than spectacular.

Even if he did, you must ask yourself why such a good coach would make such a decision...maybe he knew that many of Bush's weapons were negated if he was playing a fast defense. After all, Texas had to worry about Bush catching the ball too...as well as running it...he was a double threat in that game but Texas' speed could contain it. What makes you think that NFL defenses won't be able to stop it just b/c he's a double threat?:twocents:

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 01:57 AM
IMO Pete had a couple of questionable calls like the timeout during the 2 point conversion.

The only thing I can say about NFL defense stopping Bush's outside running game is that RB's in the NFL can make it to the outside and most of them are not as fast or quick as Bush. Also on a side note IMO if defenses are worried about bush getting to the outside then it should be easier for him to run up the middle. Also if we do draft bush I want to see alot of misdirection plays and screens.

WILLIEG
02-02-2006, 02:51 AM
RB is the man and so is VY, however, in my opinion after careful consideration and being part of the VY homer thing, it's in the best intererst of the orgnization that the texans either drasft RB as the #1 overall or trade down to pick up D'brick!

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 10:17 AM
Here is the way I see it.

If there is five seconds left in a basketball game and on one side you have Tracy McGrady and on other side you have David Wesly. The defense is obviously going to make Wesly be the one to beat them by double teaming McGrady or somthing. Here is the question do you try and fake out the defense by giving the ball to Wesly or do you give the ball to your best and most trusted player McGrady. Personally im giving the ball to McGrady.


In this case, you'd want your second best player on the field to at-least be a decoy.......

for USC, I'd have to assume that was Jarrette, 'cause Reggie wasn't there.

thunderkyss
02-02-2006, 10:23 AM
IMO Pete had a couple of questionable calls like the timeout during the 2 point conversion.




the only thing questionable about the two calls, is WTF was Pete Caroll thinking. On this one, maybe he was thinking Texas would take one, and try for another touchdown to wint he game.... he didn't do the math and realize that two plus a field goal would win the game. He must have thought Texas was going to try an onside after getting the PAT, and try for another touchdown.

With Reggie on the sideline....... he just tought he was tougher than Texas, and he was going to Ram it home..... he must not have noticed the change of personel on the Texas side. Putting Reggie in the backfield as a decoy may have enabled LenDale to pick up that first.......


.... but we'll never know.

TXurias
02-02-2006, 11:26 AM
IMO Pete had a couple of questionable calls like the timeout during the 2 point conversion.

The only thing I can say about NFL defense stopping Bush's outside running game is that RB's in the NFL can make it to the outside and most of them are not as fast or quick as Bush. Also on a side note IMO if defenses are worried about bush getting to the outside then it should be easier for him to run up the middle. Also if we do draft bush I want to see alot of misdirection plays and screens.
Just think about the Texans in a shotgun formation with DD and #5 in the backfield. Tough to stop, put either back in formation and the defense doesn't know who to key on. I think buy picking up #5 we avg at least 7 more points a game this year.

bigTEXan8
02-02-2006, 11:48 AM
Wow, just wow. This is just one big reach and based on that, this conversation does not need to continue any further.

*shakes his head in utter disbelief and leaves the thread laughing at the ridiculous logic he just witnessed*

Whatever...I know what I saw.

Bubbajwp
02-02-2006, 12:16 PM
rice was losing 42-0 at halftime. the dogs had been called off, just like many games this past year.

reggie bush great performance was against fresno st. real power there.

people have bashed young and all he does is prove people wrong.
Like people have not been bashing Bush.

infantrycak
02-02-2006, 12:50 PM
this linebacker kept up with bush fairly easily.

http://media.putfile.com/drew-kelson-pick

C'mon folks have a little objectivity. On the clip Bush is running to a spot where a ball already in the air will land. It isn't going to serve any purpose at that point for him to turn on the burners and out run the ball as well as the LB.

stevo3883
02-02-2006, 12:56 PM
C'mon folks have a little objectivity. On the clip Bush is running to a spot where a ball already in the air will land. It isn't going to serve any purpose at that point for him to turn on the burners and out run the ball as well as the LB.


Kelson was on bush the entire game.

Kelson isnt some ordinary LB, he was the #1 safety recruit in the nation out of lamar HS and is about 215. not exactly your everyday lb in that he can run a 4.45. He played VERY impressively and was mainly responsible for Bush's small impact in the game

Runner
02-02-2006, 01:08 PM
C'mon folks have a little objectivity. On the clip Bush is running to a spot where a ball already in the air will land. It isn't going to serve any purpose at that point for him to turn on the burners and out run the ball as well as the LB.

There you go again with those facts.

Good work.

infantrycak
02-02-2006, 01:21 PM
Kelson was on bush the entire game.

Kelson isnt some ordinary LB, he was the #1 safety recruit in the nation out of lamar HS and is about 215. not exactly your everyday lb in that he can run a 4.45. He played VERY impressively and was mainly responsible for Bush's small impact in the game

Geez, I am not commenting on Kelson at all or taking anything away from him, but that clip doesn't show anything about Bush's speed as he is clearly waiting up for a ball. Heck Kelson could have out run that ball it appears.

stevo3883
02-02-2006, 01:34 PM
Geez, I am not commenting on Kelson at all or taking anything away from him, but that clip doesn't show anything about Bush's speed as he is clearly waiting up for a ball. Heck Kelson could have out run that ball it appears.


i know, just givin props to a hometown boy.

(i know its not supposed to matter, haha)

TreWardTxn
02-03-2006, 03:55 AM
Everybody wants to talk about the matchup problems that Bush could command for an offense. Well, we saw in that one play, against an LB with NFL potential (at the LB spot) sending Bush deep will not be the money play we all hope it will be. I've been a Broncos fan for years, and I have seen a lot more PA passes to the FB than the RB, and that is because the RB commands the attention of the D due to his running ability. Unless Kubiak has some new wrinkles he has never quite displayed, then I doubt that would be a HUGE part of the offense. But lets talk about the matchup problems a tall, aware, strong bodied, ultra-mobile QB would possess. If the offense can get just 3 yds on 1st and 2 on 2nd down, that puts them at 3 and 5. Please tell me, what defensive coordinator in the league would NOT SPY on that QB, effectively eliminating one (or more if in zone) of his defenders from the play. I would remind people that in this offense, any motioning of the RB out the backfield signals pass, whereas the dual threat of the QB keeps the D guessing, creating matchup difficulties across the field. Whether people like guys like Vick, McNabb, and others or not, they're ability to pick up the first down when the called play doesn't work as planned leads to extra plays, which wears down defenses, which makes teams more likely to be scored on and keeps their D off the field, a quick fix for a bad defense. I like that set of matchups too...

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 08:32 AM
Everybody wants to talk about the matchup problems that Bush could command for an offense. Well, we saw in that one play, against an LB with NFL potential (at the LB spot) sending Bush deep will not be the money play we all hope it will be. I've been a Broncos fan for years, and I have seen a lot more PA passes to the FB than the RB, and that is because the RB commands the attention of the D due to his running ability. Unless Kubiak has some new wrinkles he has never quite displayed, then I doubt that would be a HUGE part of the offense. But lets talk about the matchup problems a tall, aware, strong bodied, ultra-mobile QB would possess. If the offense can get just 3 yds on 1st and 2 on 2nd down, that puts them at 3 and 5. Please tell me, what defensive coordinator in the league would NOT SPY on that QB, effectively eliminating one (or more if in zone) of his defenders from the play. I would remind people that in this offense, any motioning of the RB out the backfield signals pass, whereas the dual threat of the QB keeps the D guessing, creating matchup difficulties across the field. Whether people like guys like Vick, McNabb, and others or not, they're ability to pick up the first down when the called play doesn't work as planned leads to extra plays, which wears down defenses, which makes teams more likely to be scored on and keeps their D off the field, a quick fix for a bad defense. I like that set of matchups too...


Not only that, but your Safety is going to be frozen for an extra second to make sure the ball will come out of the QBs hands....

DRAMA
02-03-2006, 10:47 AM
Reggie Bush is now no faster than avg LB's in college? It has definitely sunk to 'stupid' proportions now. VY vrs Bush was actually, at one time, a pretty good debate but when people say he's no better than some scrub linebacker? Come on. These arguments hurt your cause alot. So I guess since Deion wasn't intercepting passes that means was not shutting down an entire side of the field and that he sucked? Right?

Spin it however you like but here's the fact of the matter - Bush is LIGHTNING quick and fast, he has great vision, is a HARD worker from what every person has said and he understands the game at such a high level. Defensive Co's WILL scheme to stop this guy - period! I wish people would stop saying that they won't. (Yes - I like Vince...had to throw that in for the Reggie-blinder people). Like the other poster said, why would Reggie outrun the ball? To show he's faster than some scrub? NFL or not - there's NO linebacker in the country that is as fast or quick as Bush. There is no argument there.

He poses matchup problems. You draft him because he CAN one-step CUT, because he ALREADY has better hands and runs better routes than most WR's (At least on our team), because he DOES pick up blocks, because he CAN run through arm tacklers, because he CAN line up wide, because he CAN return kicks if need be, because he CAN be a decoy, because he CAN be a leader, because he IS marketable, because he WILL start on day 1, because he is compared to the greatest who've ever played at the COLLEGE (I know...) level, because IMHO, he WILL make others better......AND.....

....because HE ACTUALLY MAY take it to the house. I mean, other teams schemed for Mathis as a freaking returner. Just think how excited we were, or at least I was, every time they kicked off to Mathis. I just loved watching what MAY happen. With Bush, and Young to some degree, it will be like almost every down of the game. I like Vince but I don't believe in running QB's - scrmabling QB's but NOT running QB's. He may indeed prove me totally wrong but as for scheming against a player, defenses will do that against BUSH from play 1 of the 2006-7 season.

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 11:19 AM
Wow Drama............ why all the drama........

I agree that Bush is faster now, than most LBs.... but he's got to get past them first. If he's trying to get to the corner, LBs have the advantage of picking the angle they attack him at....... and getting past them isn't the same as getting past a LB at the College level. You don't have to be as fast as Reggie if he's moving towards the sideline, you just have to be fast enough not to let him turn it upfield.

But..... I'm not like those guys, I think his game will translate well to the pros....... i just don't think RB is a need on this team. I can make a better argument for needing a QB, than I can a RB.

TreWardTxn
02-03-2006, 11:44 AM
Reggie Bush is now no faster than avg LB's in college? It has definitely sunk to 'stupid' proportions now. VY vrs Bush was actually, at one time, a pretty good debate but when people say he's no better than some scrub linebacker? Come on. These arguments hurt your cause alot. So I guess since Deion wasn't intercepting passes that means was not shutting down an entire side of the field and that he sucked? Right?

Spin it however you like but here's the fact of the matter - Bush is LIGHTNING quick and fast, he has great vision, is a HARD worker from what every person has said and he understands the game at such a high level. Defensive Co's WILL scheme to stop this guy - period! I wish people would stop saying that they won't. (Yes - I like Vince...had to throw that in for the Reggie-blinder people). Like the other poster said, why would Reggie outrun the ball? To show he's faster than some scrub? NFL or not - there's NO linebacker in the country that is as fast or quick as Bush. There is no argument there.

He poses matchup problems. You draft him because he CAN one-step CUT, because he ALREADY has better hands and runs better routes than most WR's (At least on our team), because he DOES pick up blocks, because he CAN run through arm tacklers, because he CAN line up wide, because he CAN return kicks if need be, because he CAN be a decoy, because he CAN be a leader, because he IS marketable, because he WILL start on day 1, because he is compared to the greatest who've ever played at the COLLEGE (I know...) level, because IMHO, he WILL make others better......AND.....

....because HE ACTUALLY MAY take it to the house. I mean, other teams schemed for Mathis as a freaking returner. Just think how excited we were, or at least I was, every time they kicked off to Mathis. I just loved watching what MAY happen. With Bush, and Young to some degree, it will be like almost every down of the game. I like Vince but I don't believe in running QB's - scrmabling QB's but NOT running QB's. He may indeed prove me totally wrong but as for scheming against a player, defenses will do that against BUSH from play 1 of the 2006-7 season.

Read the post right young man, it doesn't say Bush doesn't have breakaway speed, it says that you won't be able to simply line him up and bomb the ball out there consistently. Bush has way too much developing to do as an in-between the tackles runner to become a perennial deep threat, that's what the whole "money play" thing was about. Second of all, Kelson will be playing on Sunday's, so he is far from scrub, u just didn't know his name before Jan 3. Now, if you want to talk about marketability, fanfare, and leadership then the QB has your guy beat in a landslide (leaders DO NOT sit on the sideline during the biggest play of the year, PERIOD). If you want to talk X's O's; all i'm saying is, I'd rather have the guy who reconfigures the defense everytime he is on the field, and last I checked the QB is there 100%, rather than a guy who might be on the field for 15-20 plays...

michaelm
02-03-2006, 11:48 AM
I agree that Bush is faster now, than most LBs.... but he's got to get past them first. If he's trying to get to the corner, LBs have the advantage of picking the angle they attack him at....... and getting past them isn't the same as getting past a LB at the College level. You don't have to be as fast as Reggie if he's moving towards the sideline, you just have to be fast enough not to let him turn it upfield.


We all should agree that there are running backs in the NFL and in college that have the ability to get around the corner against NFL talent.
If that's the case, then RB can do it too. He is at least as fast as just about every back in the league, and faster than the vast majority.
The argumant about his speed not translating to the next level is just silly. Silly.

Following is a statement of fact...
Reggie Bush has more speed and quickness than just about every single back currently in the league.

Refute that at your leisure and please provide me a list of current NFL RBs that are either faster or quicker than Bush. And then those that are both...

*edit*
I edited this to clarify that I am not speaking directly to you when referring to Reggie's speed not translating to the next level. You cleary said that you think it will.
That particular statement is aimed at the other posters who make the claim that his speed won't translate well.

bigTEXan8
02-03-2006, 12:02 PM
I'm excited to see Reggie Bush play this upcoming season, whether it's with us, or with another team. He has the ability to become a very popular, dominant player. I'm all for draftiing Bush, even though I'd rather trade down. I think Bush is going to work well in this system. With the background of running the ball that Kubiak brings to the Texans, Bush could flourish more with counters and stretchesrather than toss and sweeps. JM:twocents:

DRAMA
02-03-2006, 12:12 PM
Wow Drama............ why all the drama........


It's Friday and I'm not going out tonight.... :crying:

Someone's got to take the brunt of it......I guess the Reggie/VY is taking it's toll. I'm gonna look like JVG by mid-April.

To 3rdward - I understand that VY is marketable and such in Houston but Reggie is much more hyped around the country. For every time someone here says Bush should've been in there on that play, 10 football guys will say Carroll made a HUGE mistake by not having him in there. Can't blame that on Reggie. Also, if Quinn was coming out this year, VY would be 3rd behind him and Leinart. All I'm saying is this - make no mistake - Bush is the consensus number 1 pick in the nation whereas VY is not a guaranteed top 2 QB simply based on talk that other teams may trade up to get Cutler AHEAD of Vince.

Look, I like Vince ALOT! I like Bush ALOT as well. It comes down to my patience. Now, if we trade Carr for a high pick and let Vince start day 1, I may be more inclined to go VY...MAYBE.....but I certainly do not want to wait for him to play for 2 years. I truly believe this - we can be competitive next year. IMHO, Bush gives us that chance. Whether it be with DD in the backfield when Reggie's in slot, whatever.

However, here's one thing that you can literally bet the house on - Bush will not be on the field for 15 plays. Reggie Bush will be on the field for every single offensive play that the Texans run. I'll give him an occasional breather but for every legitimate play, Bush will be IN on that play.

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 12:15 PM
*edit*
I edited this to clarify that I am not speaking directly to you when referring to Reggie's speed not translating to the next level. You cleary said that you think it will.
That particular statement is aimed at the other posters who make the claim that his speed won't translate well.

Good, because I was about to say....

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 12:28 PM
It's Friday and I'm not going out tonight.... :crying:
All I'm saying is this - make no mistake - Bush is the consensus number 1 pick in the nation whereas VY is not a guaranteed top 2 QB simply based on talk that other teams may trade up to get Cutler AHEAD of Vince.
To me, that's just media talk.... media Hype.... Everybody thought Ricky Williams would go number one, or the first RB at least. didn't happen. If the Texans don't draft Reggie........let's say they hypothetically take D'Brick at the #1 spot(I know it don't make sense) Reggie would drop to #4. If we take Vince @ 1, he drops to 3. and Our RB is better than theirs, and our QB isn't far from theirs.

Look, I like Vince ALOT! I like Bush ALOT as well. It comes down to my patience. Now, if we trade Carr for a high pick and let Vince start day 1, I may be more inclined to go VY...MAYBE.....but I certainly do not want to wait for him to play for 2 years. I truly believe this - we can be competitive next year. IMHO, Bush gives us that chance. Whether it be with DD in the backfield when Reggie's in slot, whatever.
We'll be competitive with our current RB lineup......... adding Reggie Bush doesn't change that. our problems are not directly addressed by adding Bush to our lineup. Trade down, get your OL talent, use the extra pick to find you a tightend, or a deffensive starter..... that makes a whole lot more sense than adding a 4th running back to our stable.

Daonly
02-03-2006, 12:44 PM
this linebacker kept up with bush fairly easily.

http://media.putfile.com/drew-kelson-pick


If you look at the begining of that play, The Linebacker you talked about wasn't even up on the line or anywhere 10 yards of the line. If he had "decent" speed he could have been stride to stride with anyone, Even Hester or Moss.

Can't even compare this tape, because if Bush cut off his route and Linehart just dish it to him on this play he could have got 15 yards easily, I don't know what down it was or how much they had to go though. :homer:

DRAMA
02-03-2006, 12:46 PM
I agree with trading down before I pick up a QB. The thing is DD is a good, solid back, Morency may or not be an avg to good back, Wells is a solid backup and a great special teams player, Hollings is a DB.

Bush is going to be a special back IMHO - someone who can do it all. I understand media hype but these guys understand that this kid is something that hasn't happened before. DD, a fourth rounder from OSU, and Wells are not Bush. We can ask ourselves this - would any team in the league trade Reggie Bush to us for those backs? There's a reason IMHO that it would take a Hersel Walker deal to get us to NOT take Reggie. I doubt anyone will even make an offer - that's how much this kid brings to the table. VY is nowhere near the hype outside of Houston other than asking whether or not we're going to take him with our pick.

Lendale White's last carry as a collegiate player gets 3 yards....and uhh..... :)

michaelm
02-03-2006, 12:51 PM
Good, because I was about to say....


Well, sometimes I lose my focus halfway through a post.
Sounds like some of oour players!

thunderkyss
02-03-2006, 12:55 PM
I agree with trading down before I pick up a QB. The thing is DD is a good, solid back, Morency may or not be an avg to good back, Wells is a solid backup and a great special teams player, Hollings is a DB.

Bush is going to be a special back IMHO - someone who can do it all. I understand media hype but these guys understand that this kid is something that hasn't happened before. DD, a fourth rounder from OSU,Tom Brady was a 7th round pick, Rod Smith wasn't even drafted, I don't see what you are getting at and Wells are not Bush. We can ask ourselves this - would any team in the league trade Reggie Bush to us for those backs? There's a reason IMHO that it would take a Hersel Walker deal to get us to NOT take Reggie. I doubt anyone will even make an offer - that's how much this kid brings to the table. VY is nowhere near the hype outside of Houston other than asking whether or not we're going to take him with our pick. there were a few folks in Pasedena about a month ago saying the same things about Vince. You're crazy, if you can't see that. As soon as the SB is over, the rage will continue, and you'll see it's not just people in Houston............. I'm not in Houston.

If you look at the begining of that play, The Linebacker you talked about wasn't even up on the line or anywhere 10 yards of the line. If he had "decent" speed he could have been stride to stride with anyone, Even Hester or Moss.

Can't even compare this tape, because if Bush cut off his route and Linehart just dish it to him on this play he could have got 15 yards easily, I don't know what down it was or how much they had to go though. :homer:
& if frogs had wings........... point is, that's the way the game is played. you don't have to match speed for speed to scheme against it. If Reggie were to cut off his route, is the LB fast enough to get there & break up the pass?? I don't know.... maybe...

TreWardTxn
02-03-2006, 01:31 PM
It's Friday and I'm not going out tonight.... :crying:

Someone's got to take the brunt of it......I guess the Reggie/VY is taking it's toll. I'm gonna look like JVG by mid-April.

To 3rdward - I understand that VY is marketable and such in Houston but Reggie is much more hyped around the country. For every time someone here says Bush should've been in there on that play, 10 football guys will say Carroll made a HUGE mistake by not having him in there. Can't blame that on Reggie. Also, if Quinn was coming out this year, VY would be 3rd behind him and Leinart. All I'm saying is this - make no mistake - Bush is the consensus number 1 pick in the nation whereas VY is not a guaranteed top 2 QB simply based on talk that other teams may trade up to get Cutler AHEAD of Vince.

Look, I like Vince ALOT! I like Bush ALOT as well. It comes down to my patience. Now, if we trade Carr for a high pick and let Vince start day 1, I may be more inclined to go VY...MAYBE.....but I certainly do not want to wait for him to play for 2 years. I truly believe this - we can be competitive next year. IMHO, Bush gives us that chance. Whether it be with DD in the backfield when Reggie's in slot, whatever.

However, here's one thing that you can literally bet the house on - Bush will not be on the field for 15 plays. Reggie Bush will be on the field for every single offensive play that the Texans run. I'll give him an occasional breather but for every legitimate play, Bush will be IN on that play.

There is no doubt about whether Reggie Bush would be a top back as far as speed and quickness are concerned. The concern is with his running style and his tendency to want to beat people with speed, rather than read blocks, set them up, and hit holes between the tackles. I'm sorry, but that is a legitimate concern. Also is the concern about his durability, 6'0'' 200 is lightweight for an NFL back, DeAngelo Williams goes 5'10'' 215. If a guy did not carry the load week in and out in college, then how can you say he will do it in the pros? It is proven that he was not the best short yardage back on his own college team, and the same would be true if he came to the Texans next year, so in short yardage sets (arguably the most important downs, as football is a "game of inches") he would likely not be the first or second option (Domanick/Wells or AJ w/the quick hit).

El Tejano
02-03-2006, 02:15 PM
If the offense can get just 3 yds on 1st and 2 on 2nd down, that puts them at 3 and 5.
Wasn't this Caper's philosophy??

tulexan
02-03-2006, 02:38 PM
Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams both shared carries last year and they were very successful this year in the NFL. Cedric Benson carried the load and is injured.

You can look at it two ways, either carrying the load or wearing down the treads on your tires.

El Tejano
02-03-2006, 03:40 PM
Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams both shared carries last year and they were very successful this year in the NFL. Cedric Benson carried the load and is injured.

You can look at it two ways, either carrying the load or wearing down the treads on your tires.
I have to say, that is a very good observation and argument.

DRAMA
02-03-2006, 03:44 PM
I agree. Amongst scouts and such, there's really no concern about Bush's size more than there is Brick's size. They can put on whatever weight they choose when they get into the NFL. Plus. the best backs in football can't break tackles if they gang tackle you. One person has a hard time bringing down Reggie because 99.8% of them can in no way counter his quickness - hence the comparisons to the greatest in college history.

Shaun Alexander gets caught in the backfield quite a bit. And as for Reggie Bush reading blockers and cutting off them, well, his talent for that may be better than his speed. To say this is a concern is ridiculous. His vision MAY be his best asset even moreso than his speed.

Look, we can continue to say 'there are concerns' about Reggie Bush but honestly, there are as few with this player than with any other in recent memory. His size - 6'0" - 207 at last report is fine - there's no concern there. You can easily 'run between the tackles' as that size. Plus, Denver's scheme is a one-step cut read - it's not a smashmouth. So, no, we're not going to give Reggie the ball 35 times a game or even 25, which virtually no other back in the WHOLE NFL does either.

If you like Vince - that's great! I personally am not a fan of running QB's but I can respect his game. However, there is no argument for or against one of these players that can't be debated. So, what are their positives should be the focus as opposed to their negatives. I mean, saying that Barry and Sayers never won Superbowls means that Bush can't is the silliest thing there is. Then someone says Vince against A&M and then we're right back where we started.

Will defenses have to scheme against Reggie? Well, from the scouts mouths, they all feel like yes, this kid is something to scheme against. And yes, Vince will have to be too. BUt IMO, I want Bush for this team because I do NOT want to be adequate at RB - I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think I think - and again, I think Bush is going to be electric and a literal homerun 'threat' every single time he touches the ball. Let me say this again - I think he will - I think...and no, as refered to earlier, I'm actually not crazy, and with my Ginko, my memory's actually doing better. So, I'm good actually! :)

michaelm
02-03-2006, 08:41 PM
Ronnie Brown and Cadillac Williams both shared carries last year and they were very successful this year in the NFL. Cedric Benson carried the load and is injured.

You can look at it two ways, either carrying the load or wearing down the treads on your tires.


I have to say, that is a very good observation and argument.

???


I'm sorry...


???


Benson had 61 carries in 9 games and only started one game.

That doesn't qualify for anything close to carrying a load.

TreWardTxn
02-03-2006, 10:27 PM
There is a difference between injury and simply physically wearing down. Any player can get injured at any point in time; players play hurt, not injured. Benson got injured, which may have been a product of not coming to camp, which certainly hurt his ability to get on the field early in the season. As far as Cadillac goes, scouts were concerned about his ability to carry the load because he shared the backfield w/ an NFL prototype back in Ronnie Brown. However, Cadillac is a touch bigger and, regardless of size, much more physical runner than Bush. I doubt durability will be an issue with Bush, as he will have Davis and Wells (who will get touches) to spell him. However, the point was, may it not be more beneficial to have a guy that is in every play, and alters the defense every play, rather than only during the plays he is on the field...Additionally, there is a distinct difference between being able to cut back across a field and beat people with speed to the opposite side, and reading the first block and cutting immediately upfield, which is the staple of any NFL running game.

thunderkyss
02-04-2006, 01:46 AM
???


I'm sorry...


???


Benson had 61 carries in 9 games and only started one game.

That doesn't qualify for anything close to carrying a load.

I'm pretty sure he was saying that Cedric carried the load in college, and got hurt in the pros, where as the other two shared carries for their teams in college, but carried the load in the NFL without injury.

michaelm
02-04-2006, 02:25 AM
I'm pretty sure he was saying that Cedric carried the load in college, and got hurt in the pros, where as the other two shared carries for their teams in college, but carried the load in the NFL without injury.


OK... I can agree with that. I must have misunderstood. I might have been too casual in reading his post.

HOOK'EM
02-08-2006, 09:30 AM
NO ONE can stop da Bush!:drool:

HOOK'EM
03-19-2006, 10:35 PM
................NO ONE!:redtowel:


I can see it now: Reggie,Reggie,Reggie!:redtowel: