PDA

View Full Version : Bpa


Texan in Japan
01-13-2006, 06:58 PM
For years we've discussed who should the Texans take with various picks. Should it be different this year? If you answer yes, then is it because apparently the top 2-3 players (QB & RB) now are at positions we have covered.

At 2-14 do we have enough talent to target positions or just look at need or should we stick with BPA?

I like Carr, if Matt Linehart was consensus #1, I'd say trade down for more value and that BPA should be parlayed into more value.

Over the next 3+ months hype and scrutiny will run rampant. If Vince Young is truly the new age QB, a combo of Vick and Kosar, with a little Michael Jordan superstardom sprinkled on top, then is it logical to select him as BPA because he's also a hometown boy? But if flaws in his game are apparent and the after Rosebowl glow is replaced by a 4.65 40 time and an average arm; does his appeal overweigh his evaluation?

What happens if Bush blazes the work-out circuits with sub 4.4 times, shows amazing agility and the ghost of Gale Sayers appears in all of the USC tapes? Are the media reports true? Has the Texan leadership decided he's the way to go already--is he Coach Kubiak's man?

As a fan, my emotions scream for VY's hometown hero appeal, but as a student of the game, I can be swayed by a sound argument for BPA or a trade that nets us several studs. In any event, I hope we don't reach for need and focus on BPA with each pick...2-14 talent needs upgrades at multiple positions. So I propose a new acronym; best player available for Texans' future (BPAFTF).

beerlover
01-13-2006, 07:18 PM
Vince has already recorded a 4.42 40 :cool: I would expect Reggie Bush somewhere between 4.25-4.30. still doesn't change anything in my opinion. its the leadership that the Texans lack & sorely need, you can't time that with a stop watch only by results in pressure packed title games the more pressue the better. I don't think anyone has even mentioned this but upon watching Vince (if you have DVR or have the BCS game taped) Vince doesn't even seem to be breathing hard (it would make an interesting study to monitor players heart rates during game situations).

I would say this- there will be alot of interest in that 1st pick & it could = a virtual single season face lift but the Texans will still need to find a leader, I'm not convinced the risk/reward is worth it :confused:

texplayer2
01-13-2006, 08:31 PM
Vince has already recorded a 4.42 40 :cool: I would expect Reggie Bush somewhere between 4.25-4.30. still doesn't change anything in my opinion. its the leadership that the Texans lack & sorely need, you can't time that with a stop watch only by results in pressure packed title games the more pressue the better. I don't think anyone has even mentioned this but upon watching Vince (if you have DVR or have the BCS game taped) Vince doesn't even seem to be breathing hard (it would make an interesting study to monitor players heart rates during game situations).

I would say this- there will be alot of interest in that 1st pick & it could = a virtual single season face lift but the Texans will still need to find a leader, I'm not convinced the risk/reward is worth it :confused:

I would think the pressure of trying to be the best College team ever, would be more than the pressure of coming into the game not even expected to win.
Vince came in with a chip on his shoulder about the Heisman and his let down at A&M. He was refocused with little expectation of success. Bush and Lienert came in as two Heisman winners working on securing their third straight #1 finish in a row and trying to live up to all the hype. They both tried to force themselves early and then calmed down, they then rolled off 4tds in a row and thought they had the game sown up and let off the gas. Big mistake, but that doesn't change them into frogs. They are still very good football players and so is Young. If we are looking for leadership, all three of these guys have it. Take anyone of them away and their team doesn't even get to play in that game.

beerlover
01-13-2006, 09:52 PM
I would think the pressure of trying to be the best College team ever, would be more than the pressure of coming into the game not even expected to win.
Vince came in with a chip on his shoulder about the Heisman and his let down at A&M. He was refocused with little expectation of success. Bush and Lienert came in as two Heisman winners working on securing their third straight #1 finish in a row and trying to live up to all the hype. They both tried to force themselves early and then calmed down, they then rolled off 4tds in a row and thought they had the game sown up and let off the gas. Big mistake, but that doesn't change them into frogs. They are still very good football players and so is Young. If we are looking for leadership, all three of these guys have it. Take anyone of them away and their team doesn't even get to play in that game.

I'd pretty much agree with most your points especially that all three players exhibit the leadership skills the Texans need to aquire, but I disagree that Texas led by Vince had low expectations, but BELIEVED they BELONGED on the same field with USC. Its also a fact that USC was not the only team with a resume filled with come from behind wins. the difference being USC was loaded using a three pronged jugernaut (Bush, Leinart, White) while Texas had just one man they needed to stop, everyone knew it but they either could not make the adjustment or where overwhelmed by InVinceable.

texplayer2
01-13-2006, 10:43 PM
I'd pretty much agree with most your points especially that all three players exhibit the leadership skills the Texans need to aquire, but I disagree that Texas led by Vince had low expectations, but BELIEVED they BELONGED on the same field with USC. Its also a fact that USC was not the only team with a resume filled with come from behind wins. the difference being USC was loaded using a three pronged jugernaut (Bush, Leinart, White) while Texas had just one man they needed to stop, everyone knew it but they either could not make the adjustment or where overwhelmed by InVinceable.

What I should have said was the media and such weren't comparing Texas and Young to the greatest of all time(high expectations of Vince). It's easier to strive to be the best, then to maintain yourself on the top of the heep. Matt Lienert had better #'s than last year, when he won the Heisman, but was third in the balloting( More was expected of him, than the other two candidates). Texas had definitely earned the right to play in the game, but were a 7pt. underdog in the betting public. I had thought the game was going to be around 55-49 with both offenses being dominate, but neither lived up to that standard. So from that I infer that neither team was unstoppable. It was a good game and could have gone either way. So do you think when Vince steps on the field in the NFL, and is behind a line that will not give him the time the one at Texas gave him, he will be InVinceable to Defense's that will be at the worst slightly better than USC's(And thats giving SC's d. all kind of Credit). He only won that game by 3pts.

beerlover
01-13-2006, 11:18 PM
What I should have said was the media and such weren't comparing Texas and Young to the greatest of all time(high expectations of Vince). It's easier to strive to be the best, then to maintain yourself on the top of the heep. Matt Lienert had better #'s than last year, when he won the Heisman, but was third in the balloting( More was expected of him, than the other two candidates). Texas had definitely earned the right to play in the game, but were a 7pt. underdog in the betting public. I had thought the game was going to be around 55-49 with both offenses being dominate, but neither lived up to that standard. So from that I infer that neither team was unstoppable. It was a good game and could have gone either way. So do you think when Vince steps on the field in the NFL, and is behind a line that will not give him the time the one at Texas gave him, he will be InVinceable to Defense's that will be at the worst slightly better than USC's(And thats giving SC's d. all kind of Credit). He only won that game by 3pts.

yes & yes. I agree with your clarification that is more realted to media hype and public perception so it seems we are on the same page there. As far with the Texans anything is possible, I see alot of positive changes including schemes, coaches & players. But in the end the intangible does take the team over the top, so far he has not been punked so until proven otherwise I'll say he will transition well to the next level and carry this team on his back as well. :homer:

texplayer2
01-13-2006, 11:36 PM
yes & yes. I agree with your clarification that is more realted to media hype and public perception so it seems we are on the same page there. As far with the Texans anything is possible, I see alot of positive changes including schemes, coaches & players. But in the end the intangible does take the team over the top, so far he has not been punked so until proven otherwise I'll say he will transition well to the next level and carry this team on his back as well. :homer:

In my opinion Vince would have to carry the team by himself, without Carr, and without Reggie. Reggie on the other hand can be teamed with Carr,and Domanick to give our team more options. Add a FA WR and I see all kind of possibilities.With Vince I see a decent QB that will have to learn for awhile at the next level and then, could be a star. Even the greats had to learn(Brett Farve and Steve Young come to mind). The only guy I remember coming out and lighting the sky was Marino, and Vince is nowhere near his Passing Ability yet. We agree on their college potential and leadership, but disagree on their ability to make an immediate impact.

nunusguy
01-13-2006, 11:46 PM
I'd pretty much agree with most your points especially that all three players exhibit the leadership skills the Texans need to aquire, but I disagree that Texas led by Vince had low expectations, but BELIEVED they BELONGED on the same field with USC. Its also a fact that USC was not the only team with a resume filled with come from behind wins. the difference being USC was loaded using a three pronged jugernaut (Bush, Leinart, White) while Texas had just one man they needed to stop, everyone knew it but they either could not make the adjustment or where overwhelmed by InVinceable.
I was happy that Texas won, but honestly felt they were fortunate. I won't
say the USC D was as bad as the USC O was good (no make that great, maybe the greatest offensive unit I've seen in college ball), but the USC D was not very good.
But it was a home game for USC, which was a tremendous advantage as we all know. And I think I see why Carrol wasn't very good in the NFL, because he made some really dumb decisions. And hats off to VY, he was of course
the player of the game, and on another issue, should have won the Heisman.
But the thing is I don't think the best team won - would they to play 5 or
10 games I think USC would win most of them. And I didn't graduate from any
college in Texas, just my honest, objective opinion.

texplayer2
01-13-2006, 11:57 PM
But in the end the intangible does take the team over the top, so far he has not been punked so until proven otherwise I'll say he will transition well to the next level and carry this team on his back as well. :homer:

OU Twice wasn't it?:)

beerlover
01-14-2006, 12:51 AM
We agree on their college potential and leadership, but disagree on their ability to make an immediate impact.

until proven otherwise I'm not betting against VY. good intelligent discussion which I've enjoyed and will enjoy even more someday when I become vincedicated :)

just fyi Vince will not have to carry the team they will carry him because they will protect him, empower him and develop him per Kubes :tv:

Texan in Japan
01-14-2006, 01:00 AM
Vince has already recorded a 4.42 40 :cool: I would expect Reggie Bush somewhere between 4.25-4.30. still doesn't change anything in my opinion. its the leadership that the Texans lack & sorely need, you can't time that with a stop watch only by results in pressure packed title games the more pressue the better. I don't think anyone has even mentioned this but upon watching Vince (if you have DVR or have the BCS game taped) Vince doesn't even seem to be breathing hard (it would make an interesting study to monitor players heart rates during game situations).

I would say this- there will be alot of interest in that 1st pick & it could = a virtual single season face lift but the Texans will still need to find a leader, I'm not convinced the risk/reward is worth it :confused:

Where did VY run a 4.42? Do u have a link?

I agree his charismatic leadership and athletic skills are a dynamite combo; however, the combines and workouts typically either reveal other qualities or reinforce ones that have been recognized. My point wasn't to harp on the overrated 40 times, but to point out we have 3.5 months to study and evaluate these players. I'm all for VY now, but if other factors can make a case for someone else or a terrific trade down for a jackpot...I'm willing to not be so close-minded (VY or else squad).

Texan in Japan
01-14-2006, 01:28 AM
Some discussion on Bush and Young; Texans still evaluating who's BPA...

http://www.gbnreport.com/index.htm

(12:01 AM): Bush, Young like Houston… If first impressions are any indication, Houston which has the #1 pick at the 2006 draft, likely won’t have to deal with their choice boycotting the organization. Indeed, both Southern California RB Reggie Bush and Texas QB Vince Young, the two players at the top of the Texans’ value board, say they’d be happy to play in Houston. In fact, QB Young, who grew up in Houston, has reportedly been lobbying his hometown team to select him. Bush also made it clear at his news conference Thursday announcing his decision to enter this year’s draft, that he also would like a chance to play for the Texans. "I wouldn't have a problem playing for Houston if they were to pick me," Bush said at his news conference in Los Angeles. "This is a dream come true. I'm excited about having an opportunity to prove myself at the next level, and if that was with Houston, it would make everything even better." For now, the Texans are in the evaluation process and won't tip their hand, despite Young's popularity and the mounting pressure to keep him in his hometown. The Texans reportedly have filled a major piece in their evaluation process with reports that long-time Denver offensive co-ordinator has reportedly agreed to come on board as the Texans head coach.

Trogdor014
01-14-2006, 02:00 AM
But the thing is I don't think the best team won - would they to play 5 or
10 games I think USC would win most of them. And I didn't graduate from any
college in Texas, just my honest, objective opinion.

I agree completely with you, and I am a student at UT and a diehard Longhorn fan. I feel we had the best college player, but they had the better team. I would say that out of 10 games, USC would win about 7 of them.

Trogdor014
01-14-2006, 02:03 AM
OU Twice wasn't it?:)

Nope... His two loses were Washington State in the Holiday Bowl and Oklahoma in 2004. Chance Mock started the OU game in 2003 and Young came in later.

beerlover
01-14-2006, 03:45 AM
Where did VY run a 4.42? Do u have a link?

yes sir, direct from the man on 610 sports radio, take a listen I can't remember at what specific moment so go ahead and check out the whole interview, seems you missed it! http://www.sportsradio610.com/goout.asp?u=http://www.angelfire.com/tx6/gtmtx/610am.html

beerlover
01-14-2006, 04:04 AM
speaking of BPA that should apply to all the rounds, so lets discuss the 2nd round pick. do most of you feel the Texans will switch to a 4-3? I know Babin & Peek where good DE's in College do you think both could adjust back into their old positions or is that a receipe for disaster?

I'm going to just throw out three names of the best available defensive ends who may be still on the board when the Texans pick again. these are pass rushers now, the best in the nation, my favorite is Tamba Hali from Penn State. the next BPA DE is Darryl Tapp Virgina Tech both are near identical in size & quick hard hitting/working ends. last name most of you already know is Elvis Dumervil from Louisville who led the nation in sacks, he is most likely the BPA DE available when the Texans pick (I have both the other two projected to go in the 1st rd. just FYI in case for some reason they are still around) 2nd rd.

If the Texans really want one of the stud tackles they would have to find a way to somehow trade back up into the 1st round, at this point one of these DE's might be the BPA.

Texan in Japan
01-14-2006, 05:58 AM
yes sir, direct from the man on 610 sports radio, take a listen I can't remember at what specific moment so go ahead and check out the whole interview, seems you missed it! http://www.sportsradio610.com/goout.asp?u=http://www.angelfire.com/tx6/gtmtx/610am.html

Thanks for the info/link!

Texan in Japan
01-14-2006, 06:05 AM
speaking of BPA that should apply to all the rounds, so lets discuss the 2nd round pick. do most of you feel the Texans will switch to a 4-3? I know Babin & Peek where good DE's in College do you think both could adjust back into their old positions or is that a receipe for disaster?

I'm going to just throw out three names of the best available defensive ends who may be still on the board when the Texans pick again. these are pass rushers now, the best in the nation, my favorite is Tamba Hali from Penn State. the next BPA DE is Darryl Tapp Virgina Tech both are near identical in size & quick hard hitting/working ends. last name most of you already know is Elvis Dumervil from Louisville who led the nation in sacks, he is most likely the BPA DE available when the Texans pick (I have both the other two projected to go in the 1st rd. just FYI in case for some reason they are still around) 2nd rd.

If the Texans really want one of the stud tackles they would have to find a way to somehow trade back up into the 1st round, at this point one of these DE's might be the BPA.

I think that Babin can play DE by getting back to 265-270 range. Peak could be a situational rusher, but not everydown. I think Travis Johnson could be an every down DE if he dropped a little weight and worked on his speed/agility.

Given the above, if one of those guys slipped to the 3rd, I'd consider it, but I'm thinking that a really good OL or LB is gonna slip and that should be our BPA in 2nd. I really like Bobby Carpenter/OSU LB and hope e slips because of injury. A stud OT or OG would be nice also.