PDA

View Full Version : Chronic's Lopez: Bush is the choice


Marcus
01-13-2006, 06:23 AM
Bush gives Texans best chance to wins (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/3584478.html)

But along the way toward bringing one hometown boy home, Texans leadership used the interviewing process to help make a more important, even tougher call regarding the great Vince Young or Reggie Bush debate.

With seven top NFL minds at their disposal during the interviews, McNair and his top advisers decided to use the coaches as a panel of experts, so to speak, on top of their scouting and personnel staff.


And the survey says ...

They asked each candidate to evaluate David Carr. And McNair and Co. wanted details.

Critique Carr's performance. What kind of leadership do you think Carr displayed? What would you do different? Rank Carr among all NFL quarterbacks. Can you win with him?

All seven candidates voiced the same opinion. Carr is not the problem.

The Texans then asked each candidate about Bush and pressed Fresno State's Pat Hill, a former NFL personnel man whose team played USC this season, meaning he had watched about 10 games' worth of tape on Bush.

Again, it was unanimous. All seven told the Texans: Draft Bush.

Grid
01-13-2006, 06:27 AM
They are blind... blind i tell you! :)

Nah seriously.. its good to see that some experts agreed that Carr isnt the problem. its one thing hearing it from other fans around the league and such.. but to hear it come from professional coaches just gives me hope.

Malloy
01-13-2006, 06:33 AM
Game-wise, I don't really care if we get Young or Bush with our first pick. What I am worried about is the economics of the choice. DD has a long-term contract whereas Carr's is running out. If we get Bush we'll hurt $-wise for years to come, but if we get Young as an upgrade to Carr(with a possible 1-2 years transition-period) we'll only hurt for a couple of years.

Despite what player one wants the most, I believe it is the economic aspect of the game that will ultimately decide who gets picked.
That would leave us possibly trading down the pick, again for economical reasons. Tough decision, glad I'm not making it :)

aj.
01-13-2006, 06:36 AM
It's funny to watch this ebb and flow among the fans and media. The point made on the VY learning curve has and always will be valid.

texan279
01-13-2006, 06:37 AM
All seven candidates voiced the same opinion. Carr is not the problem.

Like a breath of fresh air...Nice to hear it from someone on the outside looking in, I am just curious who the "NFL minds" were that they interviewed...

aj.
01-13-2006, 06:37 AM
The head coach candidates.

Grid
01-13-2006, 06:39 AM
couple things.

Ive been thinking about this whole "Bush will hurt the Cap since we just re-signed DD" thing.. and ive got a few thoughts.

1. What if we drafted a WR #1 overall? They will only touch the ball 10-15 times a game... and thats if they are good. The cap hit would be similar, and the number of times the player gets the ball would actually be LESS than if we drafted Bush.

2. If the Colts can pay Peyton so much..and the Falcons can pay Vick so much.. how is it that we cannot pay DD + Bush without crippling ourselves? Heck.. both of their salaries together will probably still be 20-40 million less than Peyton or Vick gets.

3. The first few years of a rookie contract are usually fairly "light" on the cap, arent they? Obviously a #1 pick will cost more but for the first few years it shouldnt be a huge amount, right? Well by the time Bush really starts putting some pressure on the cap, DD will either be gone, or restructured.. correct? SO we probably shouldnt worry bout that either.

aj.
01-13-2006, 06:41 AM
DD's contract doesn't start to get real stupid until '07. Next season won't be that bad. But then you'll have to deal with those last three years eventually.

Grid
01-13-2006, 06:45 AM
Well if we keep him happy.. keep him sharing carries with Bush and playing a part in the offense... he strikes me as the type of guy that would restructure his contract to help the team out of cap difficulty. hes a team player.

Thanks for the info aj.

Runner
01-13-2006, 06:46 AM
1) Did they even watch the games?

2) What he didn't say was the next 20 viable head coaching candidates would have all said Vince Young. Period.

3) They are all in McNair's pocket.

4) They all just like David Carr's hair.

5) They don't know anything about NFL football.

Did I miss anything? :)

Malloy
01-13-2006, 06:49 AM
5) They don't know anything about NFL football.

Did I miss anything? :)


OMG don't say that, one of these guys will run our team in 3-4 weeks! :)

I guess this shouldget all the Carr-haters out, "horrible HC candidates, they like Carr!!" :)

Runner
01-13-2006, 07:07 AM
OMG don't say that, one of these guys will run our team in 3-4 weeks! :)



I guess there is some chance they know what they are talking about!

geofb
01-13-2006, 07:28 AM
It appears cooler heads will ultimately prevail. The knee-jerk Vince Young crowd will be unhappy but we will be better in the long run by giving him a pass.

OzzO
01-13-2006, 08:29 AM
Marcus, you missed a good part of the article, though. Regardless of who we pick....
...McNair has made billions from making well-researched decisions and never making the same mistake twice. He has told Kubiak that hiring top-level assistants will not be a problem.

If it takes a $1 million a year contract to lure a defensive coordinator who will implement a 4-3 defense and bring an edge to the defensive side of the ball, so be it. If Kubiak wants a quarterbacks coach to also work with Carr — which he does — fine.

Kubiak will serve as offensive coordinator and will call the plays, but if he wants the best offensive line coach available? Go get him, Kubiak has been told.

McNair will equip the new coach with every resource available toward winning and winning soon....

WHAAA HOOO!!! Ding dong the Fangio's dead, the Pendry's dead, the Fangio's dead... ding dong with wicked schemes are deeeaaaaad.

Grid
01-13-2006, 08:31 AM
I ****ing love Bob McNair.

OzzO
01-13-2006, 08:33 AM
I ****ing love Bob McNair.

LOL!!! Don't we all. That has signature possibilities. :)

Kaiser Toro
01-13-2006, 09:08 AM
Like a breath of fresh air...Nice to hear it from someone on the outside looking in, I am just curious who the "NFL minds" were that they interviewed...

Kind of like a poll question, Is David Carr the problem for the Texans lack of success? Of course not.

I would like to see how the break down went. That is what is being debated on this board, well by me at least. ;)

jerek
01-13-2006, 09:24 AM
Though I agree with this 'survey' opinion regarding Carr, and though I am not 100% sold on Bush but have come to more or less view it as a very good idea, I only hesitate to accept the validity of all of Lopez' statements.

Though I tend to think Lopez is the least biased and most fact based Chronic writer, I nevertheless always wonder where they get some of their info from.

I would be curious to learn more about this 'wise circle of seven' and how Lopez got the inside word on their proceedings. I am not saying he is false - hell, it could be 100% true - but I guess I only advise that the buyer beware.

I wonder if those people who bet me $50 that Vince wouldn't be wearing a Texans uniform intend to pay up if they lose?

The Preacher
01-13-2006, 09:31 AM
Is it just me or is it a little disconcerting that the FO has to seek all this outside help to feel better about their decision making. Do the Patriots do this kind of thing? I'm a little surprised since Bob never makes the same mistake twice why the whole ship wasn't dismantled. Reeves must have thought the coaching was really bad.

Texans_Chick
01-13-2006, 09:33 AM
The head coach candidates.


Yeah, I could just imagine a guy interviewing for a job saying, "Yuppers, your QB stinks on ice." And personally, I think it is difficult to evaluate Carr at all given the coaching, protection issues and the difficulty in discerning what is Carr and what is not.

And IIRC, I read that the candidates have all said they would like to see more film on our team.

In any event, if I am a new head coach, I would want to win immediately and have an easier camp etc--that means no developing a new QB--and getting picks that can play right away.

But that doesn't mean that VY wouldn't be a great first pick.


I betcha we will be seeing lots of articles like this to prepare Houston for the notion that we are not going to get VY.

U4ikrob
01-13-2006, 09:43 AM
I ****ing love Bob McNair.

Me too Grid
But you know - I think Dom got the same deal - He could have anyone he wanted - McNair never put price tags on the staff - yet look at who he came up with? Fangio - Palmer - Pendry. :homer:

I still stand by what I said last off-season and during TC - The coaching staff is dragging[drug] this team down. I still cant believe they didnt understand the problem was themselves. Especially after McNair told them point blank to fix the O-line and protect DC - and look what they came up with - 3 step drops and 68 more sacks... :confused: I cant think of much better reasons to fire a staff than ignoring your bosses more than reasonable requests.

to the Reeves question above - IMO Charley is only going to be around 1 more year for Reeves to get OJT on the Cap and work with the staff and will be released next year as I'm doubtful he would take being demoted to cap specialist or accounting. Honestly - What is Casserley going to do that Reeves and the coaches are not doing outside of cap structuring now? All indication ive read recently are leaning toward personel and drafting decisions have pretty much been taken out of his hands and will be split between the new HC and McNair w/Reeves consulting. Where exactly does Charlie fit in anymore?? I certainly dont want him handling anything to do with personel choices as hes shown to be a horrible evaluator of talent on the whole. Basically 7 starters out of 4 years drafting doesnt cut it in my book.

But I digress - that was the old regime and thankfully Mr McNnair was intelligent and savvy enough to make a change for the better. Now we have the chance for a much brighter future with a new Coach/staff and a new leash on Casserley w/checks and balances.

I 'm looking forward to more of this :redtowel:

and less of this :brickwall next year

Texan in Japan
01-13-2006, 09:47 AM
Yeah, I could just imagine a guy interviewing for a job saying, "Yuppers, your QB stinks on ice." And personally, I think it is difficult to evaluate Carr at all given the coaching, protection issues and the difficulty in discerning what is Carr and what is not.

And IIRC, I read that the candidates have all said they would like to see more film on our team.

In any event, if I am a new head coach, I would want to win immediately and have an easier camp etc--that means no developing a new QB--and getting picks that can play right away.

But that doesn't mean that VY wouldn't be a great first pick.


I betcha we will be seeing lots of articles like this to prepare Houston for the notion that we are not going to get VY.

Let the propaganda begin! The media machine is prepping us for Bush in '06. As a conspiracy theorist, TC, I think you may be on to something. I just wish they would let the combine and workouts happen before they make up their minds. Heck, I could live with another losing season if we lay the foundation for an incredible future.

Wordem
01-13-2006, 09:48 AM
Lopez the aggy is wrong.

Bobo
01-13-2006, 09:52 AM
Game-wise, I don't really care if we get Young or Bush with our first pick. What I am worried about is the economics of the choice. DD has a long-term contract whereas Carr's is running out. If we get Bush we'll hurt $-wise for years to come, but if we get Young as an upgrade to Carr(with a possible 1-2 years transition-period) we'll only hurt for a couple of years.

Yet another reason to trade the pick

Bobo
01-13-2006, 09:54 AM
Heck, I could live with another losing season if we lay the foundation for an incredible future.

And the only way to do that is to trade the pick. Neither Young nor Bush excite me whatsoever because I know that, no matter which guy they choose, he won't do much if they don't work on their real weaknesses -- especially when they have two good players at both QB and RB already.

Bobo
01-13-2006, 09:56 AM
Me too Grid

But you know - I think Dom got the same deal - He could have anyone he wanted - McNair never put price tags on the staff - yet look at who he came up with? Fangio - Palmer - Pendry.

Everybody was really happy with all three of these guys for the first three years. Do you think for some reason that they all of a sudden got stupid this year?

Marcus
01-13-2006, 10:01 AM
Though I tend to think Lopez is the least biased and most fact based Chronic writer, I nevertheless always wonder where they get some of their info from.

He gets his info from the same place that Richard Justice does.
He gets his info from the same place that John McClain does.
He gets his info form the same place that Chris Mortenson does.
He gets his info from the same place that 610 does.
He gets his info from the same place that Charlie Palillo does.
He gets his info from the same place that ESPN does.
He gets his info from the same place that the "experts" on this MB does.

They pull it out of their bung holes.

The ones that are talking, don't know, and the one thats know, aren't talking.

Runner
01-13-2006, 10:07 AM
Everybody was really happy with all three of these guys for the first three years. Do you think for some reason that they all of a sudden got stupid this year?

I beleive Pendry was only here for 2 years, and our downward slide started halfway through his first season.

I think as o-line coach he undermined Palmer, and as offensive coordinator he was pathetic.

Hervoyel
01-13-2006, 10:11 AM
They are blind... blind i tell you! :)

Nah seriously.. its good to see that some experts agreed that Carr isnt the problem. its one thing hearing it from other fans around the league and such.. but to hear it come from professional coaches just gives me hope.

Yep, assuming this story is based on facts (and we have to proceed under that assumption) then it's nice to hear that all these guys who interviewed for the job basically said that Carr wasn't the issue. I assume that they met with the entire "brain trust" of the Texans (McNair, McNair, Casserly, Reeves,) and so they weren't alone in a small room with Charlie Casserly being asked to validate "his boy" DC.

You and I can go back and forth all day long saying good things about Carr and patting one another on the back for it but it's not the same as hearing those words from a broad consensus of (mostly) offense minded coaches.

People who want Vince Young to be the pick, let us lay down our swords and come together in support of Reggie Bush and wishing Vince Young well in his career as a New Orleans Saint or Tennesse Titan (not too well though in the case of the Titans). Lets stop this bickering back and forth and get back on the same team standing 100% behind our new HC Gary Kubiak and our soon to be high scoring offense led by David Carr, Reggie Bush, and Andre Johnson!

Malloy
01-13-2006, 10:12 AM
Is it just me or is it a little disconcerting that the FO has to seek all this outside help to feel better about their decision making. Do the Patriots do this kind of thing? I'm a little surprised since Bob never makes the same mistake twice why the whole ship wasn't dismantled. Reeves must have thought the coaching was really bad.

IMO it's not a problem, it's basically asking the candidates questions about where they want to take the team.

Hervoyel
01-13-2006, 10:15 AM
Lopez the aggy is wrong.

How can you possibly misspell "aggie"? Dude HOW?

"Lopez the aggy is wrong." says Wordem as the opening notes of Elton John's Can You Feel The Love Tonight begin to play. The lights go down low....

Runner
01-13-2006, 10:18 AM
How can you possibly misspell "aggie"? Dude HOW?

"Lopez the aggy is wrong." says Wordem as the opening notes of Elton John's Can You Feel The Love Tonight begin to play. The lights go down low....


I think it adds more weight to opinions spoken has God's own facts if the words are spelled right.

But that's just me.

U4ikrob
01-13-2006, 10:19 AM
Everybody was really happy with all three of these guys for the first three years. Do you think for some reason that they all of a sudden got stupid this year?

I dunno who everybody was your talking about BoBo - but I know several folks including Myself have never been happy with this staff outside of Hoke and Marciano. They consistently under-achieved coaching this team. I think this last year as ive stated before had alot to do with the staff's lack of Vision and inability to coach rookie talent up to the NFL level and bring them along together with the veterans as a team to produce players who play hard and can make plays when they need to. A defense coached by a D-coordinator that was touted as a 3-4 master - yet clearly let things go and never produced with this squad anythign better than average.

IMO - 1st big mistake last year was getting rid of most of all the veteran leadership on defense and putting rookies in to start at all those positions with no PT experience - Then expecting them to perform at the same or better level than the previous 3 years defenses with little to no drop-off. To me that was an incredible reach and a very poor decision on the coaches parts. The team suffered major setbacks because of it all year. We went from an average to above average defense to almost last in the league - IMO Lack of experience cannot be just made up for on pure talent [Hence why i'm im in the Trade down camp] Then they kept on tinkering with the O-line after year 2 and progress being made to go to a zone blocking scheme that nobody had experience with - Thus making everyone on the line and the RB's have to relearn a new blocking scheme all over again and because of it and the lack of talent - we got rewarded with 2 more high sack seasons for Carr. To me it just showed how out of touch the staff really was with the team. Especially the ignoring of McNair and the O-line talent level even when the owner clearly showed he was willing to spend the money to do whatever we needed and the staff just treated him like they were deaf - Get some FA patchwork fix players and took the "its good enough" philosophy when it clearly was obvious to pretty much everyone else in the NFL circles and fans that it was not even close to good enough to compete with an average NFL team much less playoff caliber teams. I'll stop there as the drafting and the rest just get worse.

But now we have a chance to make thigns good - get a better read on the overall team talent/production level and make some better decisions for the future. Honestly I'm hopeful and excited to see what next year brings. I'm thinking I might have a good Christmas/Birthday game to attend next year for the Texans :yahoo: :redtowel:

I'm just wondering if there goign to flush this Board again and restart next year too. I still remember the first incarnation - lol boy you think we got flames and trolls right now from the VY debate - Sheesh that first Texan Mboard was bloody ugly!! Heck I still remember the team taking the MB down because it got so bad - If I recall right Vinny even got banned at one point - lol - :penalty:

TheOgre
01-13-2006, 10:22 AM
How can you possibly misspell "aggie"? Dude HOW?

How can every Aggie manage to mess up the abbreviations for The University of Texas? Some things just go without saying.

Jack Bauer
01-13-2006, 10:30 AM
How can every Aggie manage to mess up the abbreviations for The University of Texas? Some things just go without saying.

t.u. is correct. We know how sips prefer it, but that does not make it correct! :yahoo:

Jack Bauer
01-13-2006, 10:33 AM
Yeah, I could just imagine a guy interviewing for a job saying, "Yuppers, your QB stinks on ice."

If a coach thinks DC is a problem, I think he would bring it up. If Carr's production does not improve under the new HC who said that Carr was not the problem, the HC will be gone after two years. It would not be in the potential HC's best interest to say that Carr is not the problem.

stevo3883
01-13-2006, 10:36 AM
How can you possibly misspell "aggie"? Dude HOW?

"Lopez the aggy is wrong." says Wordem as the opening notes of Elton John's Can You Feel The Love Tonight begin to play. The lights go down low....


just an fyi- TM&A is now officially called simply "aggy"

no plural, no -ie, just aggy

Hervoyel
01-13-2006, 10:59 AM
I dunno who everybody was your talking about BoBo - but ive never been happy with this staff outside of Hoke and Marciano.

You are not alone. Anyone who's spent any time at all on this or any of the other Texans boards can attest to the fact that the coaching staff has concerned a lot of people from the very first season. It's not like we were real worried about Dom Capers but his assistants made many of us hesitate a little bit. Chris Palmer and Dom Capers didn't seem like a good philisophical mix and Fangio's record in Indy was brought up regularly. When the defense came out and played well in 2002 we all assumed that meant that he just didn't have the players he needed when he was with the Colts.

I don't look at the people on this board (including myself) as a collection of the greatest football minds ever assembled because we're not. We're just a fairly accurate cross section of the fanbase. We've all been pretty vocal about how this didn't seem to fit together correctly. It's just that the evidence has gotten increasingly hard to ignore as the years went by.

Htown34s
01-13-2006, 11:16 AM
I would be astonished if a single coach interviewed said that they should draft VY. He is a risk, and they would all play it safe with that answer. It was no secret who the Texans were leaning towards, so possibly all of the candidates didn't want to confront Casserly's favorite and take themselves out of the running for HC.

Porky
01-13-2006, 12:06 PM
I will definetely back up Herv and u4ikrob on their thoughts.

I don't doubt for a minute that this isn't "made up" as marcus seems to be suggesting. I think Cass or some other high level individual is feeding him info. There is an old adage in politics. Get the bad news out first. When there is a skeleton in the closet, the politician's handlers will leak that info to the media so that the shock has died down, the pol has answered the questions, and thier opponent cannot bring it up at the last minute prior to the draft... errr election. This is no different. They are leaking this to the press so that by the time the draft rolls around, the early negative reactions will have died down, and to let us fans know that we aren't going to get the local hero here, so DEAL WITH IT!

The other interesting tidbit is that he says Kubiak will serve as the offensive coordinator and will be calling his own plays. My initial reaction to that is positive, as I think he has been great in Denver in that capacity, but we will have to see how that plays out here. Will he be stretched too thin?

Vinny
01-13-2006, 12:13 PM
I would be astonished if a single coach interviewed said that they should draft VY. He is a risk, and they would all play it safe with that answer. It was no secret who the Texans were leaning towards, so possibly all of the candidates didn't want to confront Casserly's favorite and take themselves out of the running for HC.seriously...how much time do you think Capers spent breaking down film of Matt Hasslebeck or Chad Pennington during the season? How much film other than opposing teams did Pendry or Palmer view on teams that may need a HC next year, or to gather and break down film of Vince Young? When do they have time for this? Why would Cam Cameron or Kubiak have a friggin clue how Carr breaks down on film unless they studied a large body of work...but they are working currently on their own teams missions (at least Kubiak is at this point). I think most of the fans and some of the media are making way way too much out of percieved favorites and perceived notions coaches may have.

aj.
01-13-2006, 12:21 PM
Yep, assuming this story is based on facts (and we have to proceed under that assumption) then it's nice to hear that all these guys who interviewed for the job basically said that Carr wasn't the issue. I assume that they met with the entire "brain trust" of the Texans (McNair, McNair, Casserly, Reeves,) and so they weren't alone in a small room with Charlie Casserly being asked to validate "his boy" DC.



What's conspicuously absent from the article however, is a quote from anyone associated with the brain trust to back up Lopez' assertion.

Who said "all seven candidates voiced the same opinion?" McNair? Casserly? Reeves? McNair? Burguieres? The towel boy?

Maybe Lopez arranged exclusive interviews with the seven to draw this conclusion.

Or maybe it was 'a source...'

Vinny
01-13-2006, 12:24 PM
Also, this is draft time so IF they were thinking about trading Carr they would talk him up as much as possible. This is January and the draft is still a good bit away...and this is when all the posturing goes down.

aj.
01-13-2006, 12:28 PM
Hell, someone has to write the pro-Bush/Carr article considering what's been going on the last few days...whether they truly believe what they are writing or not...

Vinny
01-13-2006, 12:29 PM
True dat. Any time you negotiate or use posture/leverage you talk UP what you are trying to build value in....then later throw down an excuse like...."we love carr but there is too much fan pressure for the local boy.....but we love him....was that a mid first you said you may have to offer?"

Kaiser Toro
01-13-2006, 12:30 PM
Also, this is draft time so IF they were thinking about trading Carr they would talk him up as much as possible. This is January and the draft is still a good bit away...and this is when all the posturing goes down.

Moreover, I would think that his agency, Octagon, would be speaking with teams as well. If that were the case it would have hit the Did Your Hear the Rumor Channel by now.

tulexan
01-13-2006, 12:35 PM
seriously...how much time do you think Capers spent breaking down film of Matt Hasslebeck or Chad Pennington during the season? How much film other than opposing teams did Pendry or Palmer view on teams that may need a HC next year, or to gather and break down film of Vince Young? When do they have time for this? Why would Cam Cameron or Kubiak have a friggin clue how Carr breaks down on film unless they studied a large body of work...but they are working currently on their own teams missions (at least Kubiak is at this point). I think most of the fans and some of the media are making way way too much out of percieved favorites and perceived notions coaches may have.


Considering that these interviews lasted 8 hours, I believe that they could break down a large body of work of Carr's game film.

I also don't think that they are talking Carr up just to trade him because they aren't going to sign him and then trade him. If they did, they would be taking a big cap hit and have a lot of dead money sitting on the cap.

tulexan
01-13-2006, 12:52 PM
I will definetely back up Herv and u4ikrob on their thoughts.

I don't doubt for a minute that this isn't "made up" as marcus seems to be suggesting. I think Cass or some other high level individual is feeding him info. There is an old adage in politics. Get the bad news out first. When there is a skeleton in the closet, the politician's handlers will leak that info to the media so that the shock has died down, the pol has answered the questions, and thier opponent cannot bring it up at the last minute prior to the draft... errr election. This is no different. They are leaking this to the press so that by the time the draft rolls around, the early negative reactions will have died down, and to let us fans know that we aren't going to get the local hero here, so DEAL WITH IT!


I think you are right about this. They are starting to gradually prepare the potential disgruntled fans for the inevitable. I didn't see Casserly on ESPN News yesterday, but I read the thread about it which had the recap and it sounded like that was exactly what he is doing. I agree with what Lopez is saying too. If Bush is their guy, they should just come out and say it. There is no point in leading the Longhorn fans on if they have no intention to draft him and get them all pissed off on draft day. Let them be upset now and they will eventually warm to the idea as time goes on.

SteelBlueToro
01-13-2006, 12:56 PM
I'm sure they were given tasks prior to the interview so that they could speak intelligently about the team. To me - that seems like a given.

And that article by John "I vote for Reggie Bush before I voted against him" McClain... He tries to make the case that Kubiak, a former qb, would use the Denver scheme here and would not take a rb with the first pick, and would be good to develop Vince Young into a qb. Ok, first, McClain, et al have stated all along that David Carr has not been given the proper tools to succeed. What better situation to develop the first player ever selected by the Texans than to put him with a coach who is skilled at developing qbs? Also, it is unlikely that Denver ever had the opportunity to pick a player like Reggie Bush with the first pick. Few players can play as many positions and can do the things that Reggie Bush can do.

MightyTExan
01-13-2006, 01:02 PM
Someone posted on the Chronic messageboard that they already picked up Carr's option and are keeping it hush-hush.

http://forums.chron.com/n/pfx/forum.aspx?nav=messages&tsn=1&tid=129&webtag=hc-texans

J-Man
01-13-2006, 01:06 PM
seriously...how much time do you think Capers spent breaking down film of Matt Hasslebeck or Chad Pennington during the season? How much film other than opposing teams did Pendry or Palmer view on teams that may need a HC next year, or to gather and break down film of Vince Young? When do they have time for this? Why would Cam Cameron or Kubiak have a friggin clue how Carr breaks down on film unless they studied a large body of work...but they are working currently on their own teams missions (at least Kubiak is at this point). I think most of the fans and some of the media are making way way too much out of percieved favorites and perceived notions coaches may have.

Actually you would be surprised how much film you can study on a guy with a few days notice prior to the interview. Heck, with the film study programs most coaches (and players) have a candidate could be checking film on his laptop and refining his pitch right up until "game time" so to speak. The other things is that these guys watch tape for a living and the amount of time it would take us mere mortals to pick up on things is probably quite a bit different than the time it would take them.

I honestly think that a coach coming in would voice concerns over the QB situation if they had doubts, particulalry in our situation when everyone knows that Carr is under tight scrutiny.

Fiddy
01-13-2006, 01:07 PM
The quickest way to get removed from the coaching search: "David Carr is the problem." McNair is in love with Carr, that is not a hidden fact. The wanna-be-Texans-coach is gonna have to pucker up to McNair's boy if he wants the job.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2006, 01:27 PM
The quickest way to get removed from the coaching search: "David Carr is the problem." McNair is in love with Carr, that is not a hidden fact. The wanna-be-Texans-coach is gonna have to pucker up to McNair's boy if he wants the job.

THANK YOU!!I have been thinking this all day and stayed out of it but had to dive in. What is a coaching candidate supposed to say when they may be coaching the guy AND the people who drafted him and stuck by him are in the room?"That was a horrible pass, his mechanics are not good." If the other 6 guys said he was a stud then you would automatically be gone. These guys were kissing up as we do in all interviews and were just conveying the fact that THEY could fix it. Isn't that Interviewing 101, "here is what I can do for you."

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 01:28 PM
Draft Young or not, you've got to extend Carr for at least two years. It may not seem like the most fiscal responsible thing to do, but that is what you've got to do. I'd like to see Vince Start next year for the Houston Texans, I think he's ready. I know it's a Gamble, but to draft him, and let Carr go is an even Bigger Gamble.

David is going to start next year, he's going to have a great year. He's going to get sacked a lot. If he looses the will to get back up, which he might, we're going to see Young.

But it will be enough motivation for David to play well, and do well mainly because he'll be filling out his Job resume, He'll be proving us wrong, and that's what winners do. Play to win, no matter what.

Nighthawk
01-13-2006, 01:30 PM
I would be curious to learn more about this 'wise circle of seven' and how Lopez got the inside word on their proceedings. I am not saying he is false - hell, it could be 100% true - but I guess I only advise that the buyer beware.

Carr fanboys won't stop to think about where the info came from or why some Croc reporter is spreading it now. Your friend, Charlie Casserly? Hmmm.

On the other hand, it does begin to sound like the same brain-truss that has brought us this far is now leaning precariously for Bush and the fleet-footed, lightning-fast decision maker and dirt-passer par excellance David "Hairboy" Carr.

They should change our name to Hopeless.

TD
01-13-2006, 01:35 PM
They should have interviewed June Jones. I heard him on ESPN Radio last night call Bush the next Eric Metcalf. Exciting and multi-talented, but no way an every down back. He said he would take VY with the first pick.


The host (can't remember his name) couldn't believe it and said so a couple hundred times.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2006, 01:38 PM
They should have interviewed June Jones. I heard him on ESPN Radio last night call Bush the next Eric Metcalf. Exciting and multi-talented, but no way an every down back. He said he would take VY with the first pick.


The host (can't remember his name) couldn't believe it and said so a couple hundred times.

Again, I don't trust the locals, but the same thing was said by Zerlein this morning...that he could be a Metcalf. All guesses though.

JDizzle
01-13-2006, 01:46 PM
I hope Rich Lord is reading this today, I get very tired of the stuff that comes out of his mouth.

Yeah, those guys at 610 are annoying, which is why I listen to good ol' Charlie on ESPN 790.

Nighthawk
01-13-2006, 01:46 PM
And then your spoon-fed Chronicle reporter entoned: "But with Reggie Bush, we know we can compete for a playoff berth next season."

Please, God, give McNair the sense to recognize all the suck-up job candidates spewing the party line on Casserly's Folly for what they are.

Ibar_Harry
01-13-2006, 01:48 PM
I'm going to be blunt and say I told you so, but I'm going to be polite and say I'm happy about some comments made in this thread.

To begin with I posted some time ago that McNair should look thing about investing his money in coaching where there is no Cap hit. My point is that in this league of equality its the coaching that now makes the difference as much as the trenches. You only have so much to work with and its the coaches who bring out the best of what they have that seems to win the most games. Each year it seems like the same coaches come to the forefront for the most part. I'm glad that it appears one way or another that Mr. McNair may have picked up on this fact.

We need a good receivers coach. Are receivers have no idea what they are doing on the field. That's being a bit rought, but the truth is they do not run routes the way they should. AJ has digressed this year and I believe has had zero coaching while a Texan. He is no TO or MOSS at this point and isn't even a threat to them. AJ can not alone take over a game. Just as people can talk about Carr's inabilities you can talk about AJ's too. Don't get me wrong AJ is a heck of a talent, but he needs coaching to bring out his best and he hasn't had that.

Carr is very similar to AJ. Is there a lot of talent there? Yes, there is, but the coaching has been absolutely horrible. You talk about game planning and the utilization players, and anthing else you want to talk about and it all goes back to coaching at this point in time.

The O-line is a bust again because of coaching. They affect what the QB and recievers do. We have not had anyone coaching the offensive line that knows what the ----- they are doing. I still say Boselli left and decided not to help with the O-line, because of the coaching staff and not the players. Do I know that for certain? No, but my gut feel tells me I'm right based on some comments.

You could continue on with this and it would all lead back to coaching even on the defensive side of the ball. But I will elaborate on one point made by Vinny and I will say I think he is dead wrong, but then again he does not like Carr and that is putting it midly. Most of the coaches who have come in for interviews have been on opposing teams we have played. As such they have extensive reviewed game film of David's tendencies and abilities looking for ways to beat Houston. Those films have been poured over with a fine tooth comb and discussed in depth by the rest of the oppositions coaching staff. I think they have a very good idea of what David's abilities are and respect above all else his toughness. I suspect they did things to keep David and the Texans from beating them by out foxing our previous coaches. They probably know that the Texans telegraph their plays by the way they substitute and what certain linemen do when they lineup.

Is David, DD, AJ, Gaffny, DROB or any other player on the Texans what we think he is? I think right now its hard to answer that question because of the coaching all of the players received. It was simply SH-----y. I don't believe you can even criticize a player like PBUCH because of the way he was coached and the schemes that were run.

ONCE AGAIN, IT DOESN'T MATTER SO MUCH WHEITHER IT IS BUSH OR YOUNG, but it matters more who McNair hires to coach this ball club and the assistants who are then hired to assist the new HC. The money spent their and who we are able to get will determine where the Texans are going. If you fail to hire a top tier coaching staff, then you will have a sub par team regardless of the talent on the team. It can't be stated more simply than that. Once, again, there is no CAP limit on coaching. Go find the best that money can buy and you will have a team. Most owners don't like to pay the coaches, but hopefully our owner figures out that's how you get a winner.

robwoody
01-13-2006, 01:59 PM
The truth is that we need a leader on this team. VY will be great leader for any team he is playing for. I for one will think twice before renewing my four season tickets if we don't take VY first. Carr will never lead any team to a championship much less the Texans!!!!

J-Man
01-13-2006, 02:04 PM
Young, Bush, Leinart, whoever...I just don't want us embaressed like we were this season.

U4ikrob
01-13-2006, 02:08 PM
The quickest way to get removed from the coaching search: "David Carr is the problem." McNair is in love with Carr, that is not a hidden fact. The wanna-be-Texans-coach is gonna have to pucker up to McNair's boy if he wants the job.

Certainly understand your PoV - but I dont think its a valid one in this case. You seem to be "implying" that these guys coming into interview are the only ones saying these thigns and that everyone else in the league must think differently. But if you keep reading furhter down in the article you wil lsee these words...

"Seven head coaching candidates, the Texans' personnel staff, consultant Dan Reeves and various other owners and general managers with whom McNair has talked say Carr is playoff-caliber and Bush is the right pick.

Why, in essence, trade Carr and Bush for Young?"

IMO - Its not just these guys coming in the office for a job thinking this as the article implies. I can pretty much guess that Mr. McNair is getting as much input as he can after last year for opinions on Carr and the team - Good - bad or indifferent. From the reports it seems everyone is saying the same as myself and some others are here - Carr's not the huge problem some are trying to make him out to be, but is more a product of poor coaching and lack of talent to protect him.

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 02:20 PM
Young, Bush, Leinart, whoever...I just don't want us embaressed like we were this season.


:bag:


Embarrassed?? who was Embarasses?? I root for that Texas football team. Always have, always will.

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 02:26 PM
Carr's not the huge problem some are trying to make him out to be, but is more a product of poor coaching and lack of talent to protect him.


do you know how long People have been saying that about Jake Plummer?? He even went through coaching changes in Arizona, to be the same old Jake. It wasn't until he got to a different team, that he finally became a Winner. I think some folks just need a kick in the pants. Some people have to know they are expendable..... True leaders, no.... True champions... no. But if David Carr is to be a leader, he's going to have to be pushed. If he's going to be a champion(which I think he is absolutely capable of) then he's going to need to know that he is not above scrutiny. That his job is not secure. That there are at least a handful of Quarterbacks that we'd rather give his money to, and two of them are in this draft right now.

ZipDog
01-13-2006, 02:39 PM
Bush gives Texans best chance to wins (http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/lopez/3584478.html)

I love the Pink Floyd avatar! The thing that concerns me is that NFL teams will do to Reggie Bush in the games what the Longhorn defense did to him in the Rose Bowl. With no offensive line to provide the holes and seams that Bush needs, he will be stacked up just like he was (for the most part) in the Pasadena game. I think Reggie Bush will be a great back if he is put in a position where he has blocking and can show his stuff. On the other hand, he could end up just like Ron Dane or most of the Heisman winners of yore....

As far as the "committee" is concerned, the Houston Texans have done everything by committee since two years before their first game. This latest committee meeting, including retreads from Denver/Atlanta, may be helpful. But, I doubt it. After all, Atlanta tried to turn Michael Vick into a dropback, pocket passer. How dumb was that?

Wordem
01-13-2006, 02:49 PM
If you think the Texans are going to the playoffs next year with Reggie Bush, you need to stop sniffing glue.

run-david-run
01-13-2006, 03:05 PM
Marcus, you missed a good part of the article, though. Regardless of who we pick....


WHAAA HOOO!!! Ding dong the Fangio's dead, the Pendry's dead, the Fangio's dead... ding dong with wicked schemes are deeeaaaaad.
Yesssssss!!! Great news, esspecially about Kubiak also being the OC.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2006, 03:08 PM
I guess he talked to different front office guys than Bayless..lol. this is getting funnier by the minute because there is a whole bunch of bad writers with different personnel guys handing them secrets:)

An NFL personnel director who encouraged me to pick USC told me on Thursday: "That's the closest thing I've seen to Michael Jordan since he left Chicago. I watched this kid every game this year, and he just got better and better and better until you finally step back and say, 'I've never seen anything like him.' I don't want to hear another word about David Carr. The Texans will never live it down if they don't take Vince Young."

blockhead83
01-13-2006, 03:24 PM
Those of you suggesting this article is just a indication of an ebb and flow of support for the candidates, or that someone just needed to chime in for Bush and Carr are mistaken. Lopez has been writing pro Bush article's since the Rose Bowl. It's McClain and Justice who've eased their stances since then, now not supporting VY as absolutely.

1-3
01-13-2006, 04:54 PM
It's McClain and Justice who've eased their stances since then, now not supporting VY as absolutely.

McClain said on Dallas radio yesterday that he is certain we are taking Vince. Basically saying the same thing on 610 today that Kubiak won't waste a first overall pick for a RB for his system. He also said that it's possible Kubiak maybe hadn't even watched the Rose Bowl yet because all he does is study film........ Hey, maybe this could be true for all these assistants Lopez is speaking for thirdhand. Just maybe they haven't broken down film on college players quite yet. :cool:

blockhead83
01-13-2006, 05:05 PM
I'm speaking solely from the standpoint of reading their article's in the chronic. McClain's last said he thought both would be great players, though he still leaned towards VY.

Double Barrel
01-13-2006, 05:21 PM
I for one will think twice before renewing my four season tickets if we don't take VY first.

Mr. McNair called and told me to tell you :BananaWav

j/k, man. But seriously, I have a hard time wrapping my mind around the concept of blowing off your team because of one player.

I understand that you really want VY to be a Texan, and I respect that opinion. But it seems to me that you punish yourself, because the beat goes on regardless. What if they did draft Young, and he has a career ending injury in pre-season? Do you still blow off the team because your player can no longer play? idonno:

I'll support my team through thick and thin, and that includes during times that I disagree with their decisions. That's just part of being a dedicated fan.

But it's your right to make that decision, but when they win (and they will, just a matter of time), you'll have to look at yourself in the mirror as you put your Texans gear on and know that you bailed at one point and didn't stick with them. This is the difference in definitions of hardcore and fairweather, man.

edo783
01-13-2006, 05:31 PM
I'll support my team through thick and thin, and that includes during times that I disagree with their decisions. That's just part of being a dedicated fan.

But it's your right to make that decision, but when they win (and they will, just a matter of time), you'll have to look at yourself in the mirror as you put your Texans gear on and know that you bailed at one point and didn't stick with them. This is the difference in definitions of hardcore and fairweather, man.

Yup DB. This fan base needs to go spend a couple of years up around Greenbay and learn what it is to be a solid fan. Waiting 30 years for a ticket whether they win or lose puts a different perspective on the term "Fan".

Double Barrel
01-13-2006, 06:57 PM
Yup DB. This fan base needs to go spend a couple of years up around Greenbay and learn what it is to be a solid fan. Waiting 30 years for a ticket whether they win or lose puts a different perspective on the term "Fan".

No doubt, edo. I heard the story a couple of weeks ago about a 70-something year old lady who had just went to her first Green Bay game. She's lived in Green Bay her entire life and has always been a fan of the Packers. (Think of the history she's seen!)

She has been waiting for decades - since the freakin' 1960's - for a chance to see the team at Lambeau Field! That is just amazing to me, and really puts things into perspective as a fan.

Houston fans take so many things for granted that I really have to wonder how the majority truly appreciates the good times, since they didn't suffer with the teams through the bad times. idonno:

I don't "blame" them, but it is kind of weird to see World Series fever by some folks that wouldn't bother to go to a baseball game when it was a free ticket.

Guess I'm weird that way, though. :howdy:

Marcus
01-13-2006, 06:59 PM
Marcus, you missed a good part of the article, though. Regardless of who we pick....

...McNair has made billions from making well-researched decisions and never making the same mistake twice. He has told Kubiak that hiring top-level assistants will not be a problem.

If it takes a $1 million a year contract to lure a defensive coordinator who will implement a 4-3 defense and bring an edge to the defensive side of the ball, so be it. If Kubiak wants a quarterbacks coach to also work with Carr which he does fine.

Kubiak will serve as offensive coordinator and will call the plays, but if he wants the best offensive line coach available? Go get him, Kubiak has been told.

McNair will equip the new coach with every resource available toward winning and winning soon....
WHAAA HOOO!!! Ding dong the Fangio's dead, the Pendry's dead, the Fangio's dead... ding dong with wicked schemes are deeeaaaaad.

What convinces me that McNair is leaning towards Bush, is that he has stated publicly at the news conference that he wants to win sooner than later. He might change his mind between now and then, but my feeling is that he looks at it like this:

We can add Bush, or switch quarterbacks and start over again. In his mind, drafting VY would be an admission to himself that he just totally wasted 4 years. I don't think he's willing to do that.

aj.
01-13-2006, 07:20 PM
I also don't think that they are talking Carr up just to trade him because they aren't going to sign him and then trade him. If they did, they would be taking a big cap hit and have a lot of dead money sitting on the cap.

They can transition tag him - essentially give him a one year deal - and it would cost around $8 million on the cap, that is until they trade him, and the Texans would be immediately relieved of that cap amount. No dead money, no acceleration. Nada.

Unlike signing bonus/option bonus accelerations, t-tag salary is treated just like base salary on the cap so there's no residual dead money or cap acceleration after you trade a t-tagged player. But the trick is you have to trade him otherwise you are stuck with the player and often times it's not under the best of circumstances. The new team will usually work a long(er) term deal from the one year t-tag salary to make things more cap friendly for them.

Texans_Chick
01-13-2006, 07:58 PM
McClain said on Dallas radio yesterday that he is certain we are taking Vince. Basically saying the same thing on 610 today that Kubiak won't waste a first overall pick for a RB for his system. He also said that it's possible Kubiak maybe hadn't even watched the Rose Bowl yet because all he does is study film........ Hey, maybe this could be true for all these assistants Lopez is speaking for thirdhand. Just maybe they haven't broken down film on college players quite yet. :cool:

This is what CC said:

(on if he already knows who the team with draft) “No, and I think that’s a premature question. We don’t even have a head coach. First, you get a coach. The coach comes in and analyzes all your personnel. In all the interviews, the coaches gave us a rundown of our personnel but, admittedly, said they would need to study more tape to feel more comfortable about it. So the coach comes in, analyzes the team, looks at it and he’s going to have opinions on it. Certainly, no decision’s going to be made here without the head coach having a tremendous say in it.

Sourced:
http://www.houstontexans.com/news/news_detail.php?PRKey=2346

Lopez is full of it.

"So is Carr the problemo?"

"Nah, I could work with Carr."

Which I am sure is the truth and what you would say in a job interview. That is entirely a different question than VY, Bush or trade down, a choice not made by looking at a little bit of tape while the season is still going. (and before VY declared).

LoneStarState
01-13-2006, 08:26 PM
It's obvious there were areas of concern that McNair and the rest are concerned about. It is quite likely that applicants were asked for their take on the level of talent of key skill positions (qb). If the team is at the crossroads, it is important to get the opinion of those who want to coach the team. I doubt if any of the candidates watched film of every player on the team. There's not enough time - but there is time to review film of how the offense, defense, and skill positions performed during the season. Believe me - watching one game was enough to let anyone see where the problems are.

And this business about the candidates telling McNair, et al what they wanted to hear (that Carr is a keeper) is crap. Why would a potential new coach say anything positive to keep a player who clearly can't play the game? Is that how you'd want to start your new job, surrounded by dead weight?

Nighthawk
01-13-2006, 08:29 PM
Yup DB. This fan base needs to go spend a couple of years up around Greenbay and learn what it is to be a solid fan. Waiting 30 years for a ticket whether they win or lose puts a different perspective on the term "Fan".


Oh Lord. Here we go again with the "real fan" syndrome. Please, get a clue. The guy says he wants Young because he thinks Young is best for the team. He says if they screw up the pick and pass on Young, he's voting with his feet. This is reasonable and appropriate behavior, though I suspect the guy will come around even if the team screws up this way. But he's allowed to say it anyway as a way of comminicating how strongly he feels about it.

Kaiser Toro
01-13-2006, 08:34 PM
They can transition tag him - essentially give him a one year deal - and it would cost around $8 million on the cap, that is until they trade him, and the Texans would be immediately relieved of that cap amount. No dead money, no acceleration. Nada.

Unlike signing bonus/option bonus accelerations, t-tag salary is treated just like base salary on the cap so there's no residual dead money or cap acceleration after you trade a t-tagged player. But the trick is you have to trade him otherwise you are stuck with the player and often times it's not under the best of circumstances. The new team will usually work a long(er) term deal from the one year t-tag salary to make things more cap friendly for them.

This may be the most feasible option to satisfy the army of one that is me - The Republic of Kaiser's Carr Contractual Liberation Army.

edo783
01-13-2006, 08:54 PM
Oh Lord. Here we go again with the "real fan" syndrome. Please, get a clue. The guy says he wants Young because he thinks Young is best for the team. He says if they screw up the pick and pass on Young, he's voting with his feet. This is reasonable and appropriate behavior, though I suspect the guy will come around even if the team screws up this way. But he's allowed to say it anyway as a way of comminicating how strongly he feels about it.

Reading is fundamental and I guess that isn't on your dance card. It was about giving up your tickets in a childish fit of pique when others elswhere have to wait life times to get them. Some people have no clue how good they have it. Why I heard one time of a city that lost their pro football team. Seems there was a great deal of wailing and knashing of teeth at that loss and they waited & waited and waited and then one day....they were given the blessing of having one again and again they could support their team with their hearts. Bet they learned from that lose........Mmmm, well, maybe.