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KING_HOUSTON
01-11-2006, 08:59 AM
Do you guys believe the line is better than they really are? I think that the line doesn't block for him because he is too SOFT..hes not locker room guy...Dont get me wrong Carr is a nice guy, but he is not that football warrior that we should want on the field..AS you can see the team does not rally around him..Especially the line!!!

Just some thoughts to Ponder??:confused:

Texan Asylum
01-11-2006, 09:06 AM
That is directly a result of the lack of leadership from the coaching staff to allow that type of negative player relationships to continue. IMO, that reflects just as bad on the other players as well as Carr. They don't have to like each other BUT they had better get along and pull together. That shouldn't be tolerated at all. IMO

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 09:09 AM
I don't know why I'm responding to this. With 13 posts to your credit and a flood of less-than-credible posts here lately, it's probably a poor decision. However, I'll answer as if it were a legitimate question. If my cynicism is misplaced, please forgive me.

All the linemen are professionals and their resume, unlike yours and mine, is right there on tape for all the NFL to see. They are not going to sacrifice their careers (at the very least, the big payday) for anyone, much less a guy that you contend they don't like.

Texan Asylum
01-11-2006, 09:12 AM
I don't know why I'm responding to this. With 13 posts to your credit and a flood of less-than-credible posts here lately, it's probably a poor decision. However, I'll answer as if it were a legitimate question. If my cynicism is misplaced, please forgive me.

All the linemen are professionals and their resume, unlike yours and mine, is right there on tape for all the NFL to see. They are not going to sacrifice their careers (at the very least, the big payday) for anyone, much less a guy that you contend they don't like.
Amen, Brother.

KING_HOUSTON
01-11-2006, 09:14 AM
One day, probaly a long time ago...you had 13 post too..so relax..

But Im serious, is the line really that bad?? Ok maybe so!LOL! but c'mon i've seen plenty of plays where it looks like the lineman just moved out of the way i.e. VIctor Riley, Seth WAnd,..Not only that but when g-Funk got mad at Carr it shows the locker room is not completly behind Senor Carr...:challenge

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 09:17 AM
When a team is 2-14, the locker room is going to be fragmented. I'm sure it's probably worse than we know. I'm sure when Carr was playing well last season and players were not making plays around him, those players probably got nasty little comments from the defense as well.

This O-line is very bad as a unit. They don't work well together. They don't coordinate to double team, pick up stunts or blitzes, or change assignments at the line. Individually, we may have a few talented linemen. As a whole, they are the absolute worst unit in the NFL.

Texan Asylum
01-11-2006, 09:21 AM
My amen was about the line not about the amount of posts you have. Sorry if it was taken that way.:)

kingh99
01-11-2006, 09:21 AM
The line doesn't play for him because he holds the ball and takes coverage sacks instead of chances. He's all about his QB rating. Not necessarily a bad thing but it prolly chaps this line that the get all the blame for his sacks.

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 09:26 AM
The line doesn't play for him because he holds the ball and takes coverage sacks instead of chances. He's all about his QB rating. Not necessarily a bad thing but it prolly chaps this line that the get all the blame for his sacks.

You state this as if it is indeed fact. I will now politely excuse myself from this pointless conversation. Good day to you.

BREAZE
01-11-2006, 09:33 AM
I seriously don't think anybody on our line would start for another team, but that's just my opinion...

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 09:36 AM
I seriously don't think anybody on our line would start for another team, but that's just my opinion...

The linemen we did not draft, started on NFL teams before they got here. Maybe your comment is about the players we drafted?

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 09:42 AM
Let's get one thing clear about G-Funk. He's a big fat ***** who won't be here next year. The guy's bark is much bigger than his bite, as shown by the past couple years. He'd rather complain, piss and moan about the fact Carr can't put up 80 points a game because then the D actually has a chance to maintain a lead. G-Funk needs to stuff his face with some food and quit complaining. Find another home loser.

Runner
01-11-2006, 09:42 AM
One day, probaly a long time ago...you had 13 post too..so relax..

But Im serious, is the line really that bad?? Ok maybe so!LOL! but c'mon i've seen plenty of plays where it looks like the lineman just moved out of the way i.e. VIctor Riley, Seth WAnd,..Not only that but when g-Funk got mad at Carr it shows the locker room is not completly behind Senor Carr...:challenge

Seth Wand, right. He played about 10 offensive snaps last season.

Vinny
01-11-2006, 09:43 AM
Let's get one thing clear about G-Funk. He's a big fat ***** who won't be here next year. The guy's bark is much bigger than his bite, as shown by the past couple years. He'd rather complain, piss and moan about the fact Carr can't put up 80 points a game because then the D actually has a chance to maintain a lead. G-Funk needs to stuff his face with some food and quit complaining. Find another home loser.Walker was probably our best defender last year, one of our few pro bowlers...and one of our best players period.

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 09:44 AM
Let's get one thing clear about G-Funk. He's a big fat ***** who won't be here next year. The guy's bark is much bigger than his bite, as shown by the past couple years. He'd rather complain, piss and moan about the fact Carr can't put up 80 points a game because then the D actually has a chance to maintain a lead. G-Funk needs to stuff his face with some food and quit complaining. Find another home loser.

Well I would surmise that there are 5,839,493 reasons why we would not cut him. Walker stays, to much of a cap hit not to have him.

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Walker was probably our best defender last year, one of our few pro bowlers...and one of our best players period.
Polk was our best member on the D this year. Walker got lucky that the opposing o-line felt sorry for him and let him get through a few times.

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 09:46 AM
Well I would surmise that there are 5,839,493 reasons why we would not cut him. Walker stays, to much of a cap hit not to have him.
krap...thought he was on his last year...thanks kaiser

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 09:50 AM
krap...thought he was on his last year...thanks kaiser

No sweat, should have backed it up with a link.

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/cap2006.html

kbourda
01-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Do you guys believe the line is better than they really are? I think that the line doesn't block for him because he is too SOFT..hes not locker room guy...Dont get me wrong Carr is a nice guy, but he is not that football warrior that we should want on the field..AS you can see the team does not rally around him..Especially the line!!!

Just some thoughts to Ponder??:confused:

I'll say this. The line has had some help in looking bad (coaching and QB). Look at it this way, DD won rookie of the year behind that terrible line (and it hasn't changed very much since then). And was I the only one that noticed that the second Carr left the game in SF a TD was scored three plays later. Eventhough he had two drives begin no deeper than the SF thirty. Don't get me wrong, Carr deserves another shot with decent coaching (for that matter the whole team does). I will say this as well, for him getting sacked as much as he has been and getting up from it, I wouldn't classify him as being soft.

Vinny
01-11-2006, 09:51 AM
Polk was our best member on the D this year. Walker got lucky that the opposing o-line felt sorry for him and let him get through a few times.I can tell you don't know what you are looking at then. That comment was no better than my 12 year old neice could serve up...get real man.

Spoda
01-11-2006, 09:52 AM
no ..the answer is the line sucks...oh and the coaching sucked...how could the line get better when we moved our stellar line coach to offensive coordinator?

KING_HOUSTON
01-11-2006, 09:56 AM
Seth Wand, right. He played about 10 offensive snaps last season.

Out of ten plays he blocked only two!! What Im saying is its not all the O Lines fault that Carr cant get the ball out quicker!

Not the O Lines fault that Carr runs out of bounds...

Not the O Lines fault that Carr takes coverage sacks...

Not the O Lines fault that Carr is scared of his shadow either..

The Line needs help, but the problem is not them...

Who wants to fight a battle without a LEADER?????

kbourda
01-11-2006, 09:57 AM
I don't know why I'm responding to this. With 13 posts to your credit and a flood of less-than-credible posts here lately, it's probably a poor decision. However, I'll answer as if it were a legitimate question. If my cynicism is misplaced, please forgive me.

All the linemen are professionals and their resume, unlike yours and mine, is right there on tape for all the NFL to see. They are not going to sacrifice their careers (at the very least, the big payday) for anyone, much less a guy that you contend they don't like.

Give me a break, the post total doesn't make a person more or less credible. There are people on this MB with high post totals who make "less than credible" posts as well.

Runner
01-11-2006, 10:00 AM
I've bitten my tongue on this for a couple of months now, but I think it's time to let fly.

For what it’s worth, here is something I found interesting when I heard it during the past season. I didn’t post it then because I didn’t think that would be a good thing to do while our coaching staff was here. I heard this from a Texans player who told me he heard this with his own ears. So it was hearsay to me, but I have no reason to think the player telling me this was lying.

If you’ll recall, after the fourth game of the season it was a big deal that Riley was being replaced at left tackle. If I recall correctly, the news was broken on ESPN.com on Tuesday. Since Tuesday is the Texans day off, the news was in the media before the players knew of the change.

Anyway, on Wednesday the coaches benched Riley and moved Pitts to tackle. The player I was talking to told me that at some point that day he heard Pitts say something to another o-lineman like “I don't understand why they aren't putting Wand back in at left tackle”.

So I asked the player I was talking to “how did the coaches answer that question?”

He looked at me with a resigned and then disgusted look on his face and said, “you don’t ask our coaches questions like that”.

I think that short conversation was very illuminating about a number of things:

1) How our players felt about our coaches as early as the 4th game of the season
2) Who at least some players close to the situation thought our best left guard/left tackle combination was
3) Insight into why our line didn’t seem to be very coordinated at times and played worse this year than last
4) Why I'm a little higher on Wand than some on this board


The good news is a new coaching staff might make a lot more out of the talent we already have.

kbourda
01-11-2006, 10:04 AM
The good news is a new coaching staff might make a lot more out of the talent we already have.


My thoughts exactly.

edo783
01-11-2006, 10:13 AM
The good news is a new coaching staff might make a lot more out of the talent we already have.

If we get the folks I expect we will, I will be EXTREMILY surprised if we don't see that our players are better than they have shown for our previouse CRACK coaching team.

Runner, that is some very illuminating data. Thanks.

Spoda
01-11-2006, 10:19 AM
i think we all agree the new coaching staff can't do any worse...plus we should all agree the line was getting better...and i pray we all (including the new staff) that Mckinney is not a center...we will be fine...i feel we only NEED one good lineman... but 2 would be nice

pitts LT
mckinney LG
hogdon C
wade/rookie RG (the giant from USC)
wade /rookie RT (brick)

that's my dream..take bush, trade down i don't care..get us a lineman or 2...and a TE and we'll be fine.....oh and please get an OC that will call a few passing plays over 3 yds....oh and one more thing..a HC that will play to win..not keep it close and try not to lose too badly

Chance_C
01-11-2006, 12:25 PM
I'm a huge follower of sports that claims to know very little about the intricacies of the NFL game. I follow the Texans very closely, but I'm not an astute observer of film nor do I really focus on offensive lineman during the game (always say I am but end up focusing on the skill positions or wherever the ball is instead). Therefore I feel my opinion could be way off, but here goes:

Chester Pitts imo is our best lineman. I want to see him cut down on the false start penalties, but I think he is here to stay. Probably our best lineman. I think McKinney would be better suited at LG which is where he will most likely be. I think he could be a better than average zone "finesse blocking" guard. I do not want to see him at center again, that's for sure. The rest is a little foggier to me. The reports on Hodgon seem to be good. Could he be our starting center long term? If so, we need to concentrate on the right side of the line. Weigert is good enough when healthy, but he is getting older and like I said, definately injury prone. Wade has got to better than he has shown, but it's time to start looking for his replacement if his performance does not escalate to a level that substantiates his salary. Give me Gary Kubiak and his assistants and I think they can take our line, mix it up in a bowl, add a sprinkle here and there, and come up with totally different results.

We also obviously need a No. 2 receiver and a tight end. Once again I think that Kubiak and Co. could be great for Carr. That's right I said Carr. I put at least 75% of the blame for his regression this year on the coaching or lack thereof. He's not faultless, but he's not rotten meat either. Let's see what a new staff can do for him, and the entire offense.

Texans Horror
01-11-2006, 02:44 PM
If we draft a running quarterback or a running back who runs to the outside, we need faster offensive linemen, especially tackles. While Pitts is definitely a good lineman, he does not have Wand's speed, so I think we are going to see Seth on the field. I am not sure how the others line up by speed, but if somebody could rate the speed of our line, you would probably have a good idea of who will be out there next year.

Bobo
01-11-2006, 02:45 PM
Do you guys believe the line is better than they really are? I think that the line doesn't block for him because he is too SOFT..hes not locker room guy...Dont get me wrong Carr is a nice guy, but he is not that football warrior that we should want on the field..AS you can see the team does not rally around him..Especially the line!!!

Just some thoughts to Ponder??:confused:

So when you screw up on the job it's your supervisor's fault because he isn't a motivator? Yeah, right.

Bobo
01-11-2006, 02:47 PM
The good news is a new coaching staff might make a lot more out of the talent we already have.

We already had that coach and he was fired.

Texans Horror
01-11-2006, 03:05 PM
I've bitten my tongue on this for a couple of months now, but I think it's time to let fly.

For what it’s worth, here is something I found interesting when I heard it during the past season. I didn’t post it then because I didn’t think that would be a good thing to do while our coaching staff was here. I heard this from a Texans player who told me he heard this with his own ears. So it was hearsay to me, but I have no reason to think the player telling me this was lying.

If you’ll recall, after the fourth game of the season it was a big deal that Riley was being replaced at left tackle. If I recall correctly, the news was broken on ESPN.com on Tuesday. Since Tuesday is the Texans day off, the news was in the media before the players knew of the change.

Anyway, on Wednesday the coaches benched Riley and moved Pitts to tackle. The player I was talking to told me that at some point that day he heard Pitts say something to another o-lineman like “I don't understand why they aren't putting Wand back in at left tackle”.

So I asked the player I was talking to “how did the coaches answer that question?”

He looked at me with a resigned and then disgusted look on his face and said, “you don’t ask our coaches questions like that”.

I think that short conversation was very illuminating about a number of things:

1) How our players felt about our coaches as early as the 4th game of the season
2) Who at least some players close to the situation thought our best left guard/left tackle combination was
3) Insight into why our line didn’t seem to be very coordinated at times and played worse this year than last
4) Why I'm a little higher on Wand than some on this board


The good news is a new coaching staff might make a lot more out of the talent we already have.


I have mentioned before that all of this Bush/Young back and forth is donkey punch bunk until we have a coach, which is likely to not be for another 2 - 3 weeks. The coaches could very likely decide that we have good players but bad coaching. Reeves could have decided it during his evaluation phase.

Texans Horror
01-11-2006, 03:08 PM
We already had that coach and he was fired.
I won't say you're wrong, but man are you in the minority here.

Added: Second thought - Did you mean Palmer or Capers? Cause I'd agree with you to some extent on Palmer.

Double Barrel
01-11-2006, 03:18 PM
What Im saying is its not all the O Lines fault that Carr cant get the ball out quicker!

yeah, he should have released the ball in 0.05 of a second instead of the 0.08 of a second that the o-line afforded him.

Some of Carrs sacks were his own doing. But I'd venture that a good 85%+ of his 200+ sacks in four years were due to bad protection. Every QB gets himself sacked at one point or another. But none of them average 52 sacks/season on their own without the assistance of poor line protection.

We already had that coach and he was fired.

Hope you're not talking about Dom Capers. One winning season out of eight years as a head coach speaks volumes about his abilities to manage a team. Watch closely as no other team bothers to even interview him for their open HC positions.

Runner
01-11-2006, 06:27 PM
I think that the line doesn't block for him because he is too SOFT..hes not locker room guy...:

Highly unlikely, since the players make their next pay checks from their game film.

(Whatever "too SOFT" means)

HJam72
01-11-2006, 08:54 PM
This line wouldn't pass block any better for John Elway. A new coaching staff might help, a regular blocking scheme might help, an RB who can pass block would certainly help, and new players would cerainly help at least a little, but a new QB will not help this line pass block any better.

Actually, I think this line's biggest pass blocking problems are blocking schemes and DD.

NFLforher
01-11-2006, 10:12 PM
Do you guys believe the line is better than they really are? I think that the line doesn't block for him because he is too SOFT..hes not locker room guy...Dont get me wrong Carr is a nice guy, but he is not that football warrior that we should want on the field..AS you can see the team does not rally around him..Especially the line!!!

Just some thoughts to Ponder??:confused:


He's not a warrior?


How many times has he been bashed on the ground and then got up?