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View Full Version : David Carr deserves to start here 1 more year


gtexan02
01-10-2006, 06:35 PM
Lets face it, despite the common notion, Carr has worked extremely hard and except for some terrible moments this past season, has managed to put up some respectable numbers. Heres my reasoning:

1st two seasons, we were an expansion team lead by a rookie--tough situation.

3rd season, Carr posted a significantly improved completion percentage, gained 3538 yards, and tossed 16tds (83.5 passer rating). We had just swithced to zone blocking, and towards the end of the season, defenses were triple teaming AJ and that limited some of Carrs numbers. Davis was also hurt for about half the season

4th season, Carr did regress. But look at the situation he was in. The O-Line shuffled around almost the entire season, key blockers were hurt, DD was hurt, and AJ was hurt for a lot of the season. Despite this, he still completed over 60% of his passes and threw for more TDs than INTs. True, we were throwing mostly slant routes and quick hooks, but the fact is, he was surrounded by almost no one this season, and performed admirably well.

The thing is, VY could probably make our team a lot better. But with a new coach, I have no reason to believe that Carr will be any worse than a rookie VY. Therefore I think it is only fair to give Carr a chance to develop under some real coaching, and if we takes steps backwards, then maybe its time to start lookie elsewhere.

Kaiser Toro
01-10-2006, 06:42 PM
Valid points and a good take. I will take him back as long as his contract is commensurate to where he fits in with his cohorts in the league, which in my opinion is right in the middle.

He needs a lot of help to be successful. This situation kind of reminds me of the IBM consulting commercial set in a medieval time at a round table. The "chief", McNair, asks the consultant, Reeves, what we should do solve the current quagmire and he recommends to throw more money at the problem. That is what we will be doing with an extension.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 06:49 PM
i say we we get some OL ans see what he can do w/ some protection before we cast the first stone.

texansfaninla
01-10-2006, 07:05 PM
He showed flashes of great play, especially that first half against St. Louis this past season. And you have to respect the fact that the guy hasn't completely given up after getting sacked around 200 times in four years. Give the man some time to throw, and some more weapons (read: Reggie Bush), and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised and happy that we stuck by him.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:08 PM
He showed flashes of great play, especially that first half against St. Louis this past season. And you have to respect the fact that the guy hasn't completely given up after getting sacked around 200 times in four years. Give the man some time to throw, and some more weapons (read: Reggie Bush), and I think we'll be pleasantly surprised and happy that we stuck by him.

so you think we need reggie and all our OL problems will be solved ?

tulexan
01-10-2006, 07:08 PM
so you think we need reggie and all our OL problems will be solved ?

I believe he said to get some protection and add more weapons.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:13 PM
he said more weapons (read reggie bush) so he was implying reggie bush when he said weapons. :redtowel:

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:15 PM
plus i have been pleasently suprised with "out of nowhere only a special teamer" :challenge D. Davis. Plus we just signed him to a contract extension last year.

texansfaninla
01-10-2006, 07:15 PM
Yes, that's what I said. Get Reggie, get some OL help and maybe another solid WR, and the offense could really take off.

Don't we have four picks in the first 70, or something like that? Why not take Bush, then bolster the OL with second and third round picks? Or get a solid WR, or some defensive help, or go get some OL in free agency? That's the quickest recipe for improvement, in my opinion.

And I have absolutely nothing against DD. Heck, I'm an LSU alum. I love to see him succeed. But him, plus Bush in the same backfield, could be really great. Bush hasn't carried the ball more than like 25 times a game for SC, and Davis has shown he is not the most durable fella out there. Combine their efforts. Could be very interesting.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:18 PM
Yes, that's what I said. Get Reggie, get some OL help and maybe another solid WR, and the offense could really take off.

Don't we have four picks in the first 70, or something like that? Why not take Bush, then bolster the OL with second and third round picks? Or get a solid WR, or some defensive help, or go get some OL in free agency? That's the quickest recipe for improvement, in my opinion.

if all the nfl played football east to west i would say get him, but most teams play north to south, and i watch alot of college ball and he is best when running to the outside and no RB can make it if thats all he's good at. Besides the fact that D. Davis has has some health issues i have been pleasently suprised and happy with his play.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:18 PM
yes but why both when we could trade firt overall pick and just add to our overall team depth ???

HoustonFan
01-10-2006, 07:24 PM
I really want to see Carr succeed here. he has been done disservice for a minute here. Sure there were some areas that he could/should have used better judgement, but he hasn't been Joey Harrington bad.

With an offensive minded coach sre to get the job let's see what Carr does.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:26 PM
most of the picks he threw this year were on his receivers and not just because of bad decesions, unlike i had seen from him in the past.

Kaiser Toro
01-10-2006, 07:31 PM
most of the picks he threw this year were on his receivers and not just because of bad decesions, unlike i had seen from him in the past.

I never thought that picks were an issue with Carr. In fact most of his detractors would probably not argue his accuracy. However, when most of his attempts are within 5 yards of the line of scrimmage you won't see many picks.

TexansTrueFan
01-10-2006, 07:33 PM
but that will happen when ya barely have time to take a 3 step drop before ya have to pass.

profan
01-10-2006, 08:05 PM
When all the good vibes from this Rose Bowl performance wears off lets please stop and think. Vince Young had one of the best if not the best offensive line this year. He had the best pass catching tight end in college football. He had recievers that will be playing in the nfl and some very good running backs. David Carr had the worst offensive line in the NFL, average at best receivers excluding Andre. Did I mention that David Carr also had some of the poorest coaching. If we would have surrounded David with one of the best lines, three good receivers, and a tight end, these conversations would not be taking place, because we could possibly still be playing football. If we keep Carr and surround him with quality players, i will be at every game supporting the team. If we draft vince i will be there also, but whoever is the qb, he will need some help that david has not gotten from this front office and previous coaching staff.

swtbound07
01-10-2006, 08:06 PM
When all the good vibes from this Rose Bowl performance wears off lets please stop and think. Vince Young had one of the best if not the best offensive line this year. He had the best pass catching tight end in college football. He had recievers that will be playing in the nfl and some very good running backs. David Carr had the worst offensive line in the NFL, average at best receivers excluding Andre. Did I mention that David Carr also had some of the poorest coaching. If we would have surrounded David with one of the best lines, three good receivers, and a tight end, these conversations would not be taking place, because we could possibly still be playing football. If we keep Carr and surround him with quality players, i will be at every game supporting the team. If we draft vince i will be there also, but whoever is the qb, he will need some help that david has not gotten from this front office and previous coaching staff.


So maybe if you give david carr the most ideal of circumstances for a qb, he could possibly turn into a valid qb and win games....lets give him 9 years for that to happen!

pskinny
01-10-2006, 08:20 PM
Since the Rose Bowl this board has exploded with Vince Young talk. I understand most of you wanting the talented home town kid, but it's almost ridiculous the effect his performance in that game had on this city. So instead of me getting frustrated and defending my Reggie Bush position in countless threads. I thought I would create my own, telling my side of the story.

First off, the Texans should extend David Carr. You're right David didn't perform this season, but who on the team did? Coaching changes were made, Carr had nothing at TE, AJ was hurt, DD was hurt, his OL was shuffled around constantly, and when they findly started playing with some continuity, Weigert, Hogden, Wade got hurt. Now we're going to blame Carr for not stepping up and carrying this team on his shoulders? Give the man a chance to succeed next year. Hire Kubiak, fix the OL, draft a TE, get a second WR, and get ready to see a new Carr on field on Sunday.

Now we're left deciding what to do with the number 1 pick. Drafting VY after deciding to keep Carr would be a disaster. First off, you'd have nothing to show for that first pick in the 2006 season with Young on the bench. Not adding an offensive weapon such as Bush when you have the chance would be a mistake, and only setting Carr up for more failure. Every time Carr threw a incompletion, interception, or got sacked, the boo birds would be out in full force. We don't need that next season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a VY hater, I think he will be great some day, but I feel the same about Bush. Do you guys forget how two weeks ago this city was praying for the Texans to lose to SF so they would have the right to Draft Reggie. WOW!!!! How quick things change. The guy is unbelievable, he's got Jerome Mathis speed with Barry Sanders like moves. He's the closest thing to a can't miss prospect as they get in College Football, and 49 other states still believe that, even after the Rose Bowl.

Carr, AJ, Bush, and DD on the field at the same time? Coupled with an offensive minded coach such as Kubiak, a new WR, new TE, and new OL??? Man, the possibilities.....Who would you rather have the next five years? VY and DD? Or Carr, DD, and Bush?

Now you ask how are we going to add all these needed peices? I say to pursue one of the top FA linemen. Hutchinson? Bentley? Draft the best OT available with the first pick of the 2nd round, Draft the best TE and OG with the two picks in the 3rd. Then pursue a FA WR like Antonio Bryant, Kevin Curtis, maybe Charles Rogers (if he gets released), and you see what Mathis can do.

That's just how I see it.........and I didn't even mention the defense.

eriadoc
01-10-2006, 08:41 PM
So maybe if you give david carr the most ideal of circumstances for a qb, he could possibly turn into a valid qb and win games....lets give him 9 years for that to happen!


OR -- if you put VY in the circumstances that DC has had to endure for four years, he'd realize life isn't all Rose Bowls and national championships. He'd be begging for that Texas O-line and even more importantly, those less-than-stellar defenses he faced in the NCAA.

NO QUARTERBACK would have done any better to this point than DC has, given the same set of circumstances from 2002 forward.

El Tejano
01-10-2006, 09:56 PM
OR -- if you put VY in the circumstances that DC has had to endure for four years, he'd realize life isn't all Rose Bowls and national championships. He'd be begging for that Texas O-line and even more importantly, those less-than-stellar defenses he faced in the NCAA.

NO QUARTERBACK would have done any better to this point than DC has, given the same set of circumstances from 2002 forward.
Steve Mcnair was also not supposed to scramble around in the NFL and he faced even less than stellar defenses. The one thing that I saw in Mcnair that I see in Vince is HEART. Yes, Steve eventually was slowed down by a bruising hit by Donnie Edwards but he became a very good pocet passer. Steve is Vince's mentor. You think he didn't tell Vince that he needs to be a better more complete QB? Nah, instead he showed him how to be in the offseason. Why do you think Vince got better as his career went on.

ArlingtonTexan
01-10-2006, 10:16 PM
OR -- if you put VY in the circumstances that DC has had to endure for four years, he'd realize life isn't all Rose Bowls and national championships. He'd be begging for that Texas O-line and even more importantly, those less-than-stellar defenses he faced in the NCAA.

NO QUARTERBACK would have done any better to this point than DC has, given the same set of circumstances from 2002 forward.

I have seen this argument over and over for the last year or so. It is false that NO QB would have done better than Carr. One of the marks which separates speical players from different versions of "just another guy" is the ability to get somethings done despite his circumstances.

thunderkyss
01-10-2006, 10:43 PM
Since the Rose Bowl this board has exploded with Vince Young talk. I understand most of you wanting the talented home town kid, but it's almost ridiculous the effect his performance in that game had on this city. So instead of me getting frustrated and defending my Reggie Bush position in countless threads. I thought I would create my own, telling my side of the story. It's not only because he had a great game, But there was no way you could deny that Vince would enter the Draft after you watched that game. It makes no difference if he was from podunk. Nobody talked about him, because he wasn't going to declare for the Draft. Brady Quinn, he's out there, no one is talking about taking him with the #1 pick....... We can't give our first pick to anyone who wants to use it to take Quinn #1 overall..... Because he won't be in the draft.
Give the man a chance to succeed next year. Hire Kubiak, fix the OL, draft a TE, get a second WR, and get ready to see a new Carr on field on Sunday. And what if he doesn't succeed?? who do we give the ball to?? Just think about the QBs you'll be able to get to replace Carr, if we start looking for a QB next year.

Now we're left deciding what to do with the number 1 pick. Drafting VY after deciding to keep Carr would be a disaster. First off, you'd have nothing to show for that first pick in the 2006 season with Young on the bench. Not adding an offensive weapon such as Bush when you have the chance would be a mistake, and only setting Carr up for more failure. Every time Carr threw a incompletion, interception, or got sacked, the boo birds would be out in full force. We don't need that next season. how is it can you think Bush is going to be another offensive weapon. If he isn't taking the ball directly from Carr's hands, he needs to be pass blocking.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a VY hater, I think he will be great some day, but I feel the same about Bush. Do you guys forget how two weeks ago this city was praying for the Texans to lose to SF so they would have the right to Draft Reggie. WOW!!!! How quick things change. The guy is unbelievable, he's got Jerome Mathis speed with Barry Sanders like moves. He's the closest thing to a can't miss prospect as they get in College Football, and 49 other states still believe that, even after the Rose Bowl.
If we don't pick Bush, he'll more than likely drop to #4, that's how good he is. New Orleans will take Leinart...... they(like us don't need a running back) Tennesee will take Young(Unless we do) Vince will sit behind his buddy for a year, McNair will gladly groom him.

Carr, AJ, Bush, and DD on the field at the same time? Coupled with an offensive minded coach such as Kubiak, a new WR, new TE, and new OL??? Man, the possibilities.....Who would you rather have the next five years? VY and DD? Or Carr, DD, and Bush?
Get me two near ProBowl OTs, and our offense is in business. That's about all we really need. Get just one pass rushing Defensive end, and another Corner, and your whole defense will look better........well, add some disguised Coverage schemes, with lots of shifting, and movement.

Now you ask how are we going to add all these needed peices? I say to pursue one of the top FA linemen. Hutchinson? Bentley? Draft the best OT available with the first pick of the 2nd round, Draft the best TE and OG with the two picks in the 3rd. Then pursue a FA WR like Antonio Bryant, Kevin Curtis, maybe Charles Rogers (if he gets released), and you see what Mathis can do.

That's just how I see it.........and I didn't even mention the defense.
You see, this is why Fantasy Football is going to ruin the NFL.

pskinny
01-10-2006, 11:15 PM
It's not only because he had a great game, But there was no way you could deny that Vince would enter the Draft after you watched that game. It makes no difference if he was from podunk. Nobody talked about him, because he wasn't going to declare for the Draft. Brady Quinn, he's out there, no one is talking about taking him with the #1 pick....... We can't give our first pick to anyone who wants to use it to take Quinn #1 overall..... Because he won't be in the draft.

You can't deny that before the rose bowl, Reggie could do no wrong on this board. Afterwards he's a bust? That seems to be the consensus around here, and it's just crazy talk.

And what if he doesn't succeed?? who do we give the ball to?? Just think about the QBs you'll be able to get to replace Carr, if we start looking for a QB next year.

My point is that he deserves a fair chance, which he has not been given yet. You can't just kick the guy to the curb after putting him behind that line for four years.

how is it can you think Bush is going to be another offensive weapon. If he isn't taking the ball directly from Carr's hands, he needs to be pass blocking.

Not sure here. Are you implying that drafting Reggie Bush would not add to the offense? Please. He'd be the best playmaker on the team. By the way, Bush can pass block pretty good.

If we don't pick Bush, he'll more than likely drop to #4, that's how good he is. New Orleans will take Leinart...... they(like us don't need a running back) Tennesee will take Young(Unless we do) Vince will sit behind his buddy for a year, McNair will gladly groom him.

Doubtful. Bush is considered the best prospect in the draft nationwide. It's only here in Texas where VY rules all. And NO and Tennesse both need a QB. Brooks was benched, and McNair is on his way out. No surprise they take a QB. The Texans should do the same and draft where they have a need. DD can't stay healthy a full season. Bush would more than likely keep him fresh.

Get me two near ProBowl OTs, and our offense is in business. That's about all we really need. Get just one pass rushing Defensive end, and another Corner, and your whole defense will look better........well, add some disguised Coverage schemes, with lots of shifting, and movement.

I'd be all for that, but where are you going to find two near probowl OTs?

You see, this is why Fantasy Football is going to ruin the NFL.

I'm not following. I only had the Texans signing two free agents. An offensive lineman, and a middle of the pack WR. I could have said "get free agent Reggie Wayne" but we all know that's not happening. The rest I had the Texans addressing though the draft. Is that a fantasy?

texan279
01-10-2006, 11:18 PM
I have seen this argument over and over for the last year or so. It is false that NO QB would have done better than Carr. One of the marks which separates speical players from different versions of "just another guy" is the ability to get somethings done despite his circumstances.

Special players usually have good supporting casts. I would be interested to see who could have a better year than Carr this past season in this offense with Pendry calling plays.

StarStruck
01-10-2006, 11:40 PM
Personally, I like Carr as a quarterback and believe that he will have a good career. I also believe that Young is a special talent that comes along every decade or more. The questions is, do you take the chance and have the most talked about and feared QB in the league, or let him go and find out three or so years down the road the the safe decision costs you millions in dollars, publicity and championships.

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 12:12 AM
Steve Mcnair was also not supposed to scramble around in the NFL and he faced even less than stellar defenses. The one thing that I saw in Mcnair that I see in Vince is HEART. Yes, Steve eventually was slowed down by a bruising hit by Donnie Edwards but he became a very good pocet passer. Steve is Vince's mentor. You think he didn't tell Vince that he needs to be a better more complete QB? Nah, instead he showed him how to be in the offseason. Why do you think Vince got better as his career went on.

I'm not taking anything away from VY, just like I'm not taking anything from David arr. This team has set forth a set of circumstances from 2002-present that inhibits the growth of a QB in this system. Now that Capers and staff is gone, that's one major variable gone from that equation. Now, if we can just get some decent line play .....

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 12:14 AM
I have seen this argument over and over for the last year or so. It is false that NO QB would have done better than Carr. One of the marks which separates speical players from different versions of "just another guy" is the ability to get somethings done despite his circumstances.

You're certainly entitled to disagree with me, but I can't think of any QBs in my lifetime that have overcome such circumstances. I can think of a couple that have left circumstances such as this and gone on to become special players, but none that have thrived in a situation such as this.

thunderkyss
01-11-2006, 08:02 AM
My point is that he deserves a fair chance, which he has not been given yet. You can't just kick the guy to the curb after putting him behind that line for four years.

I want to give him a fair shot..... to get his trade value up. IF we draft Young, then there is no way we can keep Carr. I understand that. I'd really like for David to put us in the situation San Diego, but I can't see what they see to make them think Rivers would be better. Maybe the fact that they had to Draft Rivers to get Drew to perform the way he has.... But say David Does all that we expected of him.... Should we expect him to do the same in 2007?? I'm being Honest, we've Given David Carr a free Ride the last 4 years. No other QB(other than Jake Plummer) has had such luxury, not Ryan Leaf, Joey Harrington, Akilli Smith(sp), Quincy Carter, and a bunch more. We've spoiled him, and babbied him. I'm giving him time to show the league that he is worth something. Let's pay him $8mil over the next three years. $3mil for the next two, then we're only talking about a $2mil hit in 2007.

Not sure here. Are you implying that drafting Reggie Bush would not add to the offense? Please. He'd be the best playmaker on the team. By the way, Bush can pass block pretty good. 3 steps, that's all David gets, sometimes less. He doesn't have time to get his head up to look down the field. REggie will be pass blocking all day long. Unless you're talking about turning him into a WR..... but that's a lot of money to convert a player.
[/quote]

The Texans should do the same and draft where they have a need. DD can't stay healthy a full season. Bush would more than likely keep him fresh.
That's the best part of our offense, our run game. Fix the offensive line, and well be in the top ten rushing offenses. We're only 140yards out of the top ten spot as it is now, 400 yards shy of the top 5. Keep those Defensive tackles off Domanick, he'll last a little longer. I'd be fine if we drafted based on need, and passed on Young. If drafting Bush fits "drafting to fill needs" Then I'd be much happier getting Vince.

I'd be all for that, but where are you going to find two near probowl OTs?

One would be through free Agency. The other will be through the Draft.

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 08:04 AM
I have seen this argument over and over for the last year or so. It is false that NO QB would have done better than Carr. One of the marks which separates speical players from different versions of "just another guy" is the ability to get somethings done despite his circumstances.

Overcoming adversity is a huge trait that all great leaders have. DC has failed miserably at this level in displaying this trait. I am still a trade down guy, but after seeing that story where a 7 year old VY was hit by a car and seeing him walk around the hospital days after just makes you think that this kid had something at an early age that you cannot teach or learn. I have seen it during UT games in the last year and a half when the Horns were down a number of times, but VY would take the emotional spirits of the team on his shoulder. He is a leader. Something we sorely need.

BigBull17
01-11-2006, 08:23 AM
I have seen this argument over and over for the last year or so. It is false that NO QB would have done better than Carr. One of the marks which separates speical players from different versions of "just another guy" is the ability to get somethings done despite his circumstances.
Remember even Peyton Manning went 3-13 because he had no help. He may end up breaking every record and he couldnt do it with no line or offensive weapons. What if Indy had "cut ties" and got a new QB.

CaptainPatriot
01-11-2006, 08:28 AM
but that will happen when ya barely have time to take a 3 step drop before ya have to pass.


and when you can`t read the blitz

texansfan1974
01-11-2006, 08:34 AM
D.C. is going to be a good quarterback he just needs the chance under some good coaching. If he can run the offence like he did at the end of the season this year he will do just fine.:ok:

LCOOL
01-11-2006, 08:41 AM
Steve Mcnair was also not supposed to scramble around in the NFL and he faced even less than stellar defenses. The one thing that I saw in Mcnair that I see in Vince is HEART. Yes, Steve eventually was slowed down by a bruising hit by Donnie Edwards but he became a very good pocet passer. Steve is Vince's mentor. You think he didn't tell Vince that he needs to be a better more complete QB? Nah, instead he showed him how to be in the offseason. Why do you think Vince got better as his career went on.
I think we should give David Carr one more year, and draft VY and let Kubiak work with them both. Remember this is why Parcells wanted to come back to the Cowboys so that he can rebuild the offensive line, since he rebuilt the defensive line last year. My point is this: 1. We need to have the defense rebuilt first 2. Then work on the offensive line 3. This is going to take some time, dont expect a winning season next year, because there are so many flaws to work out. 4. CC needs to besides drafting good players, get some impact players from the free agent market, when is the time he has done that?

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 08:52 AM
Remember even Peyton Manning went 3-13 because he had no help. He may end up breaking every record and he couldnt do it with no line or offensive weapons. What if Indy had "cut ties" and got a new QB.

That is an example of someone that does not put history in context. The Colts went 13-3 the following year. If DC had done that we would not be having any converations about VY. Peyton rebounded the second year. Still waiting for DC after 4 years.

CaptainPatriot
01-11-2006, 08:54 AM
Lets face it, despite the common notion, Carr has worked extremely hard and except for some terrible moments this past season, has managed to put up some respectable numbers. Heres my reasoning:

1st two seasons, we were an expansion team lead by a rookie--tough situation.

3rd season, Carr posted a significantly improved completion percentage, gained 3538 yards, and tossed 16tds (83.5 passer rating). We had just swithced to zone blocking, and towards the end of the season, defenses were triple teaming AJ and that limited some of Carrs numbers. Davis was also hurt for about half the season

4th season, Carr did regress. But look at the situation he was in. The O-Line shuffled around almost the entire season, key blockers were hurt, DD was hurt, and AJ was hurt for a lot of the season. Despite this, he still completed over 60% of his passes and threw for more TDs than INTs. True, we were throwing mostly slant routes and quick hooks, but the fact is, he was surrounded by almost no one this season, and performed admirably well.

The thing is, VY could probably make our team a lot better. But with a new coach, I have no reason to believe that Carr will be any worse than a rookie VY. Therefore I think it is only fair to give Carr a chance to develop under some real coaching, and if we takes steps backwards, then maybe its time to start lookie elsewhere.


I`m sure he works hard.... How much more FAIR you want to give Carr? He had 4yrs of FAIR.I donít care about stats. I want a QB that is a winner. I will take a situational QB over a big stat QB.Only thing that matters is 4th Q play under pressure. I want a QB that makes good decisions and can LEAD a team to victory! You donít have to put up 40 TD passes and 4000 yards every yr. IE: Manning how many TD`s he put up against PATS last yr in the playoffs? With the PATS having Depleted DB`s. QB`s like VY don`t come around to often. He can be a GREAT roll out passer in the NFL. I don`t want to be a OLB seeing him come at me! Wondering if he is going to pass or run! Lets give VY 4yrs like we did Carr. Carr had his chance! Remember you have to sit VY down for the 1st yr. So he won`t be a so called rookie. He would be in his 2nd yr with a better understanding of reading Defenses. That`s were the Texans went wrong with Carr. Like in college called Red Shirt. If we give Carr that 1 more fair chance. We know it is not going to workout.Texans go back in the wash looking for a QB. Need to go back and look at the tape of the 2 Rose Bowl games VY was in and look in his eyes in the 4th Q. Tell me if he is not a winner.

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 09:03 AM
I`m sure he works hard.... How much more FAIR you want to give Carr? He had 4yrs of FAIR.

I'm just curious what you thought was fair about the first four years? Was it the stellar O-line play? Was it the ESPN commercials commenting on the state of that O-line? Was it the incredible game planning that the coaching staff came up with? Was it the incredible surrounding cast? Or maybe it was the team's building philosophy, from outside to inside? Maybe it was the set of circumstances that has led scouts, coaches, NFL executives, media personnel, and people a helluva lot smarter about football than you or I to state outright that this team has not given hima chance to succeed. These same people have all more or less declared Joey Harrington and Patrick Ramsey busts, yet they still hold off on condemning Carr.

Fair? Give me a bleeping break. Carr may or may not have "it" and you can argue that all day long, but there has been nothing "fair" about these four years for Carr or any QB we would have thrust into that situation.

Cjeremy635
01-11-2006, 09:27 AM
Since the Rose Bowl this board has exploded with Vince Young talk. I understand most of you wanting the talented home town kid, but it's almost ridiculous the effect his performance in that game had on this city. So instead of me getting frustrated and defending my Reggie Bush position in countless threads. I thought I would create my own, telling my side of the story.

First off, the Texans should extend David Carr. You're right David didn't perform this season, but who on the team did? Coaching changes were made, Carr had nothing at TE, AJ was hurt, DD was hurt, his OL was shuffled around constantly, and when they findly started playing with some continuity, Weigert, Hogden, Wade got hurt. Now we're going to blame Carr for not stepping up and carrying this team on his shoulders? Give the man a chance to succeed next year. Hire Kubiak, fix the OL, draft a TE, get a second WR, and get ready to see a new Carr on field on Sunday.

Now we're left deciding what to do with the number 1 pick. Drafting VY after deciding to keep Carr would be a disaster. First off, you'd have nothing to show for that first pick in the 2006 season with Young on the bench. Not adding an offensive weapon such as Bush when you have the chance would be a mistake, and only setting Carr up for more failure. Every time Carr threw a incompletion, interception, or got sacked, the boo birds would be out in full force. We don't need that next season.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not a VY hater, I think he will be great some day, but I feel the same about Bush. Do you guys forget how two weeks ago this city was praying for the Texans to lose to SF so they would have the right to Draft Reggie. WOW!!!! How quick things change. The guy is unbelievable, he's got Jerome Mathis speed with Barry Sanders like moves. He's the closest thing to a can't miss prospect as they get in College Football, and 49 other states still believe that, even after the Rose Bowl.

Carr, AJ, Bush, and DD on the field at the same time? Coupled with an offensive minded coach such as Kubiak, a new WR, new TE, and new OL??? Man, the possibilities.....Who would you rather have the next five years? VY and DD? Or Carr, DD, and Bush?

Now you ask how are we going to add all these needed peices? I say to pursue one of the top FA linemen. Hutchinson? Bentley? Draft the best OT available with the first pick of the 2nd round, Draft the best TE and OG with the two picks in the 3rd. Then pursue a FA WR like Antonio Bryant, Kevin Curtis, maybe Charles Rogers (if he gets released), and you see what Mathis can do.

That's just how I see it.........and I didn't even mention the defense.


Very nice post. You have some great points and I agree with them for the most part. This town has flip-flopped more than John Kerry in the past week......it is quite humorous. I agree that a Bush/DD backfield would be appealing and it would possibly open up the passing game a lot more because opposing teams have to account for two playmakers in the backfield and can't just drop everyone into coverage. That should limit some of the pressure on AJ. This would be the fastest route to improving our win percentage and getting us into the playoffs within the next few years or sooner. Either way, I'm glad it's not my decision. Whoever is picked, believe me that this organization would have done everything that they can to make sure the right man was chosen that will be this best fit for this team. I have confidence in McNair and whoever our new coaching staff will be.

ArlingtonTexan
01-11-2006, 09:38 AM
Special players usually have good supporting casts. I would be interested to see who could have a better year than Carr this past season in this offense with Pendry calling plays.

Start listing the top 10 QBs in the league any of them would have made more of the situation than Carr did. Would any of them made the texans into a superbowl team? No. would any of them made the texans a playoff team ? doubtfull, Would we would have the top pick in the draft? NO.

If Pendry had another QB, the chances are pretty high that he would have called different plays for another QB. I know guys want to do a one for one plug in and assume that the performance around the QB and the playcalling would not have changed, but that is far from the case.

Vinny
01-11-2006, 09:38 AM
Remember even Peyton Manning went 3-13 because he had no help. He may end up breaking every record and he couldnt do it with no line or offensive weapons. What if Indy had "cut ties" and got a new QB.Peyton's first year was 1998 when they were one of the worst teams in the league (the reason they were picking that high). Since Peyton's second season that team has been 76-33. From 1999 to present the Colts are 76 - 33 From 1998 back to 1991 the Colts were 46 - 82. Not a bad turn around.

2005 NFL Indianapolis Colts 13-0-0
2004 NFL Indianapolis Colts 12-4-0
2003 NFL Indianapolis Colts 12-4-0
2002 NFL Indianapolis Colts 10-6-0
2001 NFL Indianapolis Colts 6-10-0
2000 NFL Indianapolis Colts 10-6-0
1999 NFL Indianapolis Colts 13-3-0

1998 NFL Indianapolis Colts 3-13-0 (Peyton's rookie year)

From 1999 to present the Colts are 76 - 33 From 1998 back to 1991 the Colts were 46 - 82

1998 NFL Indianapolis Colts 3-13-0
1997 NFL Indianapolis Colts 3-13-0
1996 NFL Indianapolis Colts 9-7-0
1995 NFL Indianapolis Colts 9-7-0
1994 NFL Indianapolis Colts 8-8-0
1993 NFL Indianapolis Colts 4-12-0
1992 NFL Indianapolis Colts 9-7-0
1991 NFL Indianapolis Colts 1-15-0

tulexan
01-11-2006, 09:40 AM
Start listing the top 10 QBs in the league any of them would have made more of the situation than Carr did. Would any of them made the texans into a superbowl team? No. would any of them made the texans a playoff team ? doubtfull, Would we would have the top pick in the draft? NO.

If Pendry had another QB, the chances are pretty high that he would have called different plays for another QB. I know guys want to do a one for one plug in and assume that the performance around the QB and the playcalling would not have changed, but that is far from the case.


If we could make a field goal or not give up 10 points in 30 seconds we wouldn't have the first pick.

Vinny
01-11-2006, 09:41 AM
Start listing the top 10 QBs in the league any of them would have made more of the situation than Carr did. Would any of them made the texans into a superbowl team? No. would any of them made the texans a playoff team ? doubtfull, Would we would have the top pick in the draft? NO.

If Pendry had another QB, the chances are pretty high that he would have called different plays for another QB. I know guys want to do a one for one plug in and assume that the performance around the QB and the playcalling would not have changed, but that is far from the case.Agreed...good stuff.

djchapa11
01-11-2006, 09:53 AM
When you look back at the 2002 draft. Joey harrington was the only other decent QB besides Carr. That what houston had to build on.

Texans need some new adjustment. Start fresh with a new coach and QB.

tulexan
01-11-2006, 10:00 AM
I guess our quarterback is responsible for blowing leads in the final minutes of the game and missing field goals.

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 10:07 AM
That is an example of someone that does not put history in context. The Colts went 13-3 the following year. If DC had done that we would not be having any converations about VY. Peyton rebounded the second year. Still waiting for DC after 4 years.
Funny thing is DC is still waiting for this organization to give him an o-line.

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 10:17 AM
Start listing the top 10 QBs in the league any of them would have made more of the situation than Carr did. Would any of them made the texans into a superbowl team? No. would any of them made the texans a playoff team ? doubtfull, Would we would have the top pick in the draft? NO.

If Pendry had another QB, the chances are pretty high that he would have called different plays for another QB. I know guys want to do a one for one plug in and assume that the performance around the QB and the playcalling would not have changed, but that is far from the case.

No QB in the NFL have had the living snot beaten out of them 200+ times over the past four years, and those are the times where it actually counts as a stat. How man times has Carr been hit after letting the ball go? Every QB in the NFL, if they had been brought up the way Carr had, it is impossible to believe that any of them could have done much better to make a significant difference. Most of them have actually been coached.

Vinny
01-11-2006, 10:25 AM
No QB in the NFL have had the living snot beaten out of them 200+ times over the past four years, and those are the times where it actually counts as a stat. How man times has Carr been hit after letting the ball go? Every QB in the NFL, if they had been brought up the way Carr had, it is impossible to believe that any of them could have done much better to make a significant difference. Most of them have actually been coached.Carr wasn't hit any more than Tom Brady or Eli Manning was per game. Sports Inc has the stats.....Carr was hit 117 times and Tom Brady was hit 111 times.

TheOgre
01-11-2006, 10:30 AM
In the history of the NFL, I don't think any offensive line has ever gotten the negative pub this one has. Whether it is talent or scheme, this has been arguably the worst pass blocking team ever. How often does ESPN make fun of another team's O-line before the draft? I've seen lines that were bad for a year, but this one has been "horrible" 3 of 4 years and was merely "bad" the 4th.

The skill positions aren't much better. You do have Pro Bowler AJ, but after that you have a mediocre back (DD) that cannot pass block, no true #2 receiver, TE's that might as well have stubs for hands, a FB that is a good (not great) blocker that brings nothing else to the table, and a QB running for his life (sometimes legitimately and sometimes from phantom rushers). Lets not forget that we had the run/run/pass/punt offense too. So why are we 31-32nd in the league in offense every year?

I'd like to see us get Bush, draft an O-lineman in the 2nd, sign a good lineman, draft a TE in the 3rd, and see what Kubiak can do to resurrect a shell-shocked Carr's career. Carr is the guy that showed us guts against Atlanta. He couldn't lift his arm and throw more than 2 yards, but he will us to win that game. He has endured 4 years of the least imaginative, worst coached, and most predictable offense I can ever remember. He has kept his complaining to a minimum despite knowing every 3rd and long is an effort in futility. Look at what Jake Plummer did this year, and imagine Carr doing even better (go back and look at his senior season at Fresno State) in a year or two.

bigTEXan8
01-11-2006, 10:35 AM
Carr wasn't hit any more than Tom Brady or Eli Manning was per game. Sports Inc has the stats.....Carr was hit 117 times and Tom Brady was hit 111 times.
Yeah...we know how elusive Brady and E. Manning are. Carr has been hit more than any other QB over the past 4 years...hands down.

BigBull17
01-11-2006, 10:37 AM
That is an example of someone that does not put history in context. The Colts went 13-3 the following year. If DC had done that we would not be having any converations about VY. Peyton rebounded the second year. Still waiting for DC after 4 years.

And nothing has change in the 4 years hes been the QB. Nothing. Period. Almost the same crappy O-Line, a fragile RB, one WR with next to no support from his #2. Next to no D, even though we spent FA money and draft picks out the *** on it. Im just saying that Manning had a horrible year and the Colts franchise surrounded him with help and the improvement was tremendous. Carr has had 4 years yeah, but the Texans never gave him the chance or the help to end his struggles. He has been beat against a rock and hung out to dry. To let him go through that and then give him the boot cause fans want to have VY love child is horrible.

texplayer2
01-11-2006, 10:38 AM
I'd like to see us get Bush, draft an O-lineman in the 2nd, sign a good lineman, draft a TE in the 3rd, and see what Kubiak can do to resurrect a shell-shocked Carr's career. Carr is the guy that showed us guts against Atlanta. He couldn't lift his arm and throw more than 2 yards, but he will us to win that game. He has endured 4 years of the least imaginative, worst coached, and most predictable offense I can ever remember. He has kept his complaining to a minimum despite knowing every 3rd and long is an effort in futility. Look at what Jake Plummer did this year, and imagine Carr doing even better (go back and look at his senior season at Fresno State) in a year or two.

This would be a good strategy going into the draft and see where it leads.

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 10:50 AM
To let him go through that and then give him the boot cause fans want to have VY love child is horrible.

Well there are many fans out there who are not caught up in the VY man crush, like myself, who think we can spend 7 million dollars in better places.

Dennis007
01-11-2006, 10:54 AM
Well there are many fans out there who are not caught up in the VY man crush, like myself, who think we can spend 7 million dollars in better places.

Better yet, spend 8 MM on a 4 year QB that has been given a lump of excuses on his potential?! Interesting...

Yea, I know a "better place" to put Carr's option..:heh:

BigBull17
01-11-2006, 10:55 AM
And how much do you think VY will want? With the public outcry he would be able to demand a small fortune, and the front office will have to give it to him.

Dennis007
01-11-2006, 11:04 AM
And how much do you think VY will want? With the public outcry he would be able to demand a small fortune, and the front office will have to give it to him.

Pay the man.

The sportsworld always pays on potential. That's what we paid DC on, so what's the big difference. Since when has the top 3 in any sport coming out of college not been paid a small fortune on potential?!

This is not an exception case, this guy could be the top 3 in the draft,
what do u expect.:shrug:

texan279
01-11-2006, 11:10 AM
Pay the man.

The sportsworld always pays on potential. That's what we paid DC on, so what's the big difference. Since when has the top 3 in any sport coming out of college not been paid a small fortune on potential?!

This is not an exception case, this guy could be the top 3 in the draft,
what do u expect.:shrug:

We paid Carr on the 46 TD's and 4839 yards he threw for, which led the nation in his senior season as well as his 62.8 completion percentage. He was also only the 6th player to throw for over 4,000 yards and over 40 TD's. He also won four awards his senior season, including the Johnny Unitas award, and was named the WAC offensive player of the year and first team All-WAC.

Dennis007
01-11-2006, 11:17 AM
We paid Carr on the 46 TD's and 4839 yards he threw for, which led the nation in his senior season as well as his 62.8 completion percentage. He was also only the 6th player to throw for over 4,000 yards and over 40 TD's. He also won four awards his senior season, including the Johnny Unitas award, and was named the WAC offensive player of the year and first team All-WAC.

You're right though, he's WAC-k, ALL WAC-k.


The Rosebowl 2005 - Arguably the best college bowl in history.

BEST in the WAC -BEST IN THE NATION ??? - Hmm Hard choice huh?

Let me break it down further - Who has more power, the Mayor or the President?! Easy enough? - :twocents:

texan279
01-11-2006, 11:19 AM
You're right though, he's WAC-k, ALL WAC-k.


The Rosebowl 2006 - Arguably the best college bowl in history.

BEST in the WAC -BEST IN THE NATION ??? - Hmm Hard choice huh?

Let me break it down further - Who has more power, the Mayor or the President?! Easy enough? - :twocents:

Carr was the best QB in the country his senior year...

Dennis007
01-11-2006, 11:24 AM
Carr was the best QB in the country his senior year...

Vince is still one up, He's the best his junior year

and we know his senior year would have been a lock.

texan279
01-11-2006, 11:25 AM
Vince is still one up, He's the best his junior year

and we know his senior year would have been a lock.

No you don't, do you have a crystal ball?

Dennis007
01-11-2006, 11:27 AM
No you don't, do you have a crystal ball?


Actually I do

and so does Vince :redtowel:


Rosebowl 2005 Champs and MVP

Double Barrel
01-11-2006, 11:28 AM
In the history of the NFL, I don't think any offensive line has ever gotten the negative pub this one has. Whether it is talent or scheme, this has been arguably the worst pass blocking team ever. How often does ESPN make fun of another team's O-line before the draft? I've seen lines that were bad for a year, but this one has been "horrible" 3 of 4 years and was merely "bad" the 4th.

The skill positions aren't much better. You do have Pro Bowler AJ, but after that you have a mediocre back (DD) that cannot pass block, no true #2 receiver, TE's that might as well have stubs for hands, a FB that is a good (not great) blocker that brings nothing else to the table, and a QB running for his life (sometimes legitimately and sometimes from phantom rushers). Lets not forget that we had the run/run/pass/punt offense too. So why are we 31-32nd in the league in offense every year?

I'd like to see us get Bush, draft an O-lineman in the 2nd, sign a good lineman, draft a TE in the 3rd, and see what Kubiak can do to resurrect a shell-shocked Carr's career. Carr is the guy that showed us guts against Atlanta. He couldn't lift his arm and throw more than 2 yards, but he will us to win that game. He has endured 4 years of the least imaginative, worst coached, and most predictable offense I can ever remember. He has kept his complaining to a minimum despite knowing every 3rd and long is an effort in futility. Look at what Jake Plummer did this year, and imagine Carr doing even better (go back and look at his senior season at Fresno State) in a year or two.

Good points, and I agree. Bad coaching can drive a team into the ground quicker than anything. And if anyone wants to disagree that this team was horribly coached, then explain firing our OC two games into a season, and explain why none of them are no longer here.

I'll support the Texans regardless if Carr or Young is at QB. I don't blindly support any one player, because valid arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.

But to ignore the FACT that this entire 2005 Texans SUCKED beyond anything I've had to endure while pinning it all on one man is ludicrous. It amazes me how completely rational human beings can turn off logic because of a personal agenda.

The truth of the matter is that nothing about the 2005 Texans, at 2-14, was worth a dime (save for Mathis).

You could pretty much fire 95% of the team and start over from scratch for all I care.

But don't be so dense to blame ONE PLAYER for it all, because it was a TEAM meltdown, plain and simple.

And ONE PLAYER, be it Young or Bush, will not make a darn bit of difference unless there are fundamental changes in the way this franchise operates. Four freakin' years to get a consistent offensive line, and here we sit still waiting. It's clear that the front office of this team, from Mr. McNair to Casserly to the scouts to the coaching staff has failed to put together a TEAM, but instead have focussed on individual players.

Hopefully things are changing. Only time will tell. But Vince Young is NOT Jesus Christ, and he will NOT perform miracles on the worst team in football unless many things are upgraded soon. Why anyone expects David Carr to do the same is beyond me. He's one player, one position, on a team sport.

texplayer2
01-11-2006, 11:30 AM
No you don't, do you have a crystal ball?

Lots of people around here seem to have those things.:)

BigBull17
01-11-2006, 11:34 AM
Good points, and I agree. Bad coaching can drive a team into the ground quicker than anything. And if anyone wants to disagree that this team was horribly coached, then explain firing our OC two games into a season, and explain why none of them are no longer here.

I'll support the Texans regardless if Carr or Young is at QB. I don't blindly support any one player, because valid arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.

But to ignore the FACT that this entire 2005 Texans SUCKED beyond anything I've had to endure while pinning it all on one man is ludicrous. It amazes me how completely rational human beings can turn off logic because of a personal agenda.

The truth of the matter is that nothing about the 2005 Texans, at 2-14, was worth a dime (save for Mathis).

You could pretty much fire 95% of the team and start over from scratch for all I care.

But don't be so dense to blame ONE PLAYER for it all, because it was a TEAM meltdown, plain and simple.

And ONE PLAYER, be it Young or Bush, will not make a darn bit of difference unless there are fundamental changes in the way this franchise operates. Four freakin' years to get a consistent offensive line, and here we sit still waiting. It's clear that the front office of this team, from Mr. McNair to Casserly to the scouts to the coaching staff has failed to put together a TEAM, but instead have focussed on individual players.

Hopefully things are changing. Only time will tell. But Vince Young is NOT Jesus Christ, and he will NOT perform miracles on the worst team in football unless many things are upgraded soon. Why anyone expects David Carr to do the same is beyond me. He's one player, one position, on a team sport.
Great post

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 12:39 PM
Good points, and I agree. Bad coaching can drive a team into the ground quicker than anything. And if anyone wants to disagree that this team was horribly coached, then explain firing our OC two games into a season, and explain why none of them are no longer here.

I'll support the Texans regardless if Carr or Young is at QB. I don't blindly support any one player, because valid arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.

But to ignore the FACT that this entire 2005 Texans SUCKED beyond anything I've had to endure while pinning it all on one man is ludicrous. It amazes me how completely rational human beings can turn off logic because of a personal agenda.

The truth of the matter is that nothing about the 2005 Texans, at 2-14, was worth a dime (save for Mathis).

You could pretty much fire 95% of the team and start over from scratch for all I care.

But don't be so dense to blame ONE PLAYER for it all, because it was a TEAM meltdown, plain and simple.

And ONE PLAYER, be it Young or Bush, will not make a darn bit of difference unless there are fundamental changes in the way this franchise operates. Four freakin' years to get a consistent offensive line, and here we sit still waiting. It's clear that the front office of this team, from Mr. McNair to Casserly to the scouts to the coaching staff has failed to put together a TEAM, but instead have focussed on individual players.

Hopefully things are changing. Only time will tell. But Vince Young is NOT Jesus Christ, and he will NOT perform miracles on the worst team in football unless many things are upgraded soon. Why anyone expects David Carr to do the same is beyond me. He's one player, one position, on a team sport.

DB good post. The only thing I would add is that when you are 2-14 in sports, much like a corporation missing their number for the year, you start looking at the costly expenses. As you know I am not for ever drafting a QB at the #1, due to historicals in the salary cap era showing that it is not prudent for Super Bowl Champions.

Does the first four years of ineptness rest on Carr? Absolutley not. But his contract is where we should start in trying to right this ship.

thunderkyss
01-11-2006, 02:30 PM
Hopefully things are changing. Only time will tell. But Vince Young is NOT Jesus Christ, and he will NOT perform miracles on the worst team in football unless many things are upgraded soon. Why anyone expects David Carr to do the same is beyond me. He's one player, one position, on a team sport.
Very Good Post.

I pray that Casserly and his Cronies were trying to boost the Value of the #1 pick, by saying we'll definitely take Regie Bush. I hope he means to do the smart thing, and get us an offensive line, and a pass rush. If he is serious about using the pick, then I've got to fight for, and demand Vince Young. If that means I have to be against David Carr, then I'm against David Carr.

If we trade down, and make good picks in the Draft, and FA, to fix our lines, I'll be happy, and I believe the majority of Fans will be...... But it has got to translate into wins. If we do the right thing, and end up with 6 wins, trying to win our 7th in week 17, I, and I'll assume the rest of us Vince Supporters... will be in a hoot.

If we Pick Reggie Bush We had better win a SuperBowl.

If we pick Vince, we can go 2-14 again,(we know we won't, but we could).....

edo783
01-11-2006, 04:52 PM
Carr wasn't hit any more than Tom Brady or Eli Manning was per game. Sports Inc has the stats.....Carr was hit 117 times and Tom Brady was hit 111 times.

But he DANG sure has been sacked more.

texplayer2
01-11-2006, 05:26 PM
Very Good Post.

I pray that Casserly and his Cronies were trying to boost the Value of the #1 pick, by saying we'll definitely take Regie Bush. I hope he means to do the smart thing, and get us an offensive line, and a pass rush. If he is serious about using the pick, then I've got to fight for, and demand Vince Young. If that means I have to be against David Carr, then I'm against David Carr.

If we trade down, and make good picks in the Draft, and FA, to fix our lines, I'll be happy, and I believe the majority of Fans will be...... But it has got to translate into wins. If we do the right thing, and end up with 6 wins, trying to win our 7th in week 17, I, and I'll assume the rest of us Vince Supporters... will be in a hoot.

If we Pick Reggie Bush We had better win a SuperBowl.

If we pick Vince, we can go 2-14 again,(we know we won't, but we could).....

I want the Texans to win, and giving Vince a couple Years because he went to UT is not an acceptable line of logic to me. :penalty: I would definitely expect results out of our #1 pick no matter who he is.

CaptainPatriot
01-11-2006, 06:45 PM
I'm just curious what you thought was fair about the first four years? Was it the stellar O-line play? Was it the ESPN commercials commenting on the state of that O-line? Was it the incredible game planning that the coaching staff came up with? Was it the incredible surrounding cast? Or maybe it was the team's building philosophy, from outside to inside? Maybe it was the set of circumstances that has led scouts, coaches, NFL executives, media personnel, and people a helluva lot smarter about football than you or I to state outright that this team has not given hima chance to succeed. These same people have all more or less declared Joey Harrington and Patrick Ramsey busts, yet they still hold off on condemning Carr.

Fair? Give me a bleeping break. Carr may or may not have "it" and you can argue that all day long, but there has been nothing "fair" about these four years for Carr or any QB we would have thrust into that situation.


Why you attacking me? I`m just giving an opinion about the facts I have seen in the past 4 yrs! So what you are saying that all these scouts and coaches never make a mistake? What does SMARTS have to do about drafting? The Draft is a crap shoot. 1 more thing the NFL is not FAIR. NFL also stands for (Not for Long).Players come and players go! Maybe you should find another sport that is fair that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

stevo3883
01-11-2006, 07:00 PM
I would definitely expect results out of our #1 pick no matter who he is.


so im guessing you're not too happy with Travis Johnson

eriadoc
01-11-2006, 07:58 PM
Why you attacking me? I`m just giving an opinion about the facts I have seen in the past 4 yrs! So what you are saying that all these scouts and coaches never make a mistake? What does SMARTS have to do about drafting? The Draft is a crap shoot. 1 more thing the NFL is not FAIR. NFL also stands for (Not for Long).Players come and players go! Maybe you should find another sport that is fair that will make you feel all warm and fuzzy?

I'm not attacking you at all. I don't know you well enough to have a beef with you. Your statement alluding that Carr has had four years of fair treatment is totally fair game, however. I never said the NFL is fair, and I understand how things go in the NFL. If you think that Carr should toughen up because life isn't fair, I have no quarrel with that opinion. But YOU said that he's had four years of fair treatment, which is pretty blatantly wrong, IMO.

texplayer2
01-11-2006, 08:12 PM
so im guessing you're not too happy with Travis Johnson

At the Very top #1 pick, their needs to be an impact.:drool: I would have been real disgruntled if we would have gotten him #1 overall.:crying:

Mightymike
01-11-2006, 08:39 PM
Lets face it, despite the common notion, Carr has worked extremely hard and except for some terrible moments this past season, has managed to put up some respectable numbers. Heres my reasoning:

1st two seasons, we were an expansion team lead by a rookie--tough situation.

3rd season, Carr posted a significantly improved completion percentage, gained 3538 yards, and tossed 16tds (83.5 passer rating). We had just swithced to zone blocking, and towards the end of the season, defenses were triple teaming AJ and that limited some of Carrs numbers. Davis was also hurt for about half the season

4th season, Carr did regress. But look at the situation he was in. The O-Line shuffled around almost the entire season, key blockers were hurt, DD was hurt, and AJ was hurt for a lot of the season. Despite this, he still completed over 60% of his passes and threw for more TDs than INTs. True, we were throwing mostly slant routes and quick hooks, but the fact is, he was surrounded by almost no one this season, and performed admirably well.

The thing is, VY could probably make our team a lot better. But with a new coach, I have no reason to believe that Carr will be any worse than a rookie VY. Therefore I think it is only fair to give Carr a chance to develop under some real coaching, and if we takes steps backwards, then maybe its time to start lookie elsewhere.

the first year he might not, but wait until 3-4 years from now he'll be lightyears ahead of carr

TheOgre
01-12-2006, 10:22 AM
Good points, and I agree. Bad coaching can drive a team into the ground quicker than anything. And if anyone wants to disagree that this team was horribly coached, then explain firing our OC two games into a season, and explain why none of them are no longer here.

I'll support the Texans regardless if Carr or Young is at QB. I don't blindly support any one player, because valid arguments can be made on both sides of the debate.

But to ignore the FACT that this entire 2005 Texans SUCKED beyond anything I've had to endure while pinning it all on one man is ludicrous. It amazes me how completely rational human beings can turn off logic because of a personal agenda.

The truth of the matter is that nothing about the 2005 Texans, at 2-14, was worth a dime (save for Mathis).

You could pretty much fire 95% of the team and start over from scratch for all I care.

But don't be so dense to blame ONE PLAYER for it all, because it was a TEAM meltdown, plain and simple.

And ONE PLAYER, be it Young or Bush, will not make a darn bit of difference unless there are fundamental changes in the way this franchise operates. Four freakin' years to get a consistent offensive line, and here we sit still waiting. It's clear that the front office of this team, from Mr. McNair to Casserly to the scouts to the coaching staff has failed to put together a TEAM, but instead have focussed on individual players.

Hopefully things are changing. Only time will tell. But Vince Young is NOT Jesus Christ, and he will NOT perform miracles on the worst team in football unless many things are upgraded soon. Why anyone expects David Carr to do the same is beyond me. He's one player, one position, on a team sport.

Very well said.

bdiddy
01-12-2006, 12:00 PM
if all the nfl played football east to west i would say get him, but most teams play north to south, and i watch alot of college ball and he is best when running to the outside and no RB can make it if thats all he's good at. Besides the fact that D. Davis has has some health issues i have been pleasently suprised and happy with his play.

I hate this argument. Reggie Bush always runs to the outside in college because this is all he needs to do.

This is like saying, in college all Olajuwon did was dunk on people. Well, yeah thats true, but he had no need to do anything else. Once he got to the pros and realized he needed to do more he did more. If you are a great athlete, coaching can cure bad habits learned by dominating at a lower level of competition.

Reggie Bush is very coachable and has tremendous talent, with proper coaching he will have no problem executing inside runs in the zone blocking scheme. He will never be an every down RB, or our man inside runner, but this does not mean he cannot do it at all. Have you looked at Denver's running backs? Not all of them have been exactly huge, sure some have and some haven't. In the zone blocking scheme it is all about running against the grain - make one cut and accelerate. We all know that Bush can accelerate with the best backs in the NFL, once gets his reads down lookout.

CaptainPatriot
01-12-2006, 06:43 PM
I'm not attacking you at all. I don't know you well enough to have a beef with you. Your statement alluding that Carr has had four years of fair treatment is totally fair game, however. I never said the NFL is fair, and I understand how things go in the NFL. If you think that Carr should toughen up because life isn't fair, I have no quarrel with that opinion. But YOU said that he's had four years of fair treatment, which is pretty blatantly wrong, IMO.

Oh Ok understood. Look what happen to Brooks at N.O. this year.

beerlover
01-12-2006, 11:26 PM
Just fetched this near season's end list of Texans needs with an unbiased opinion, not great stuff but at least it does take us back to some root issues before the end of season. http://football.about.com/od/teamneeds/a/teamneeds_HOU.htm

David Carr has not quite lived up to the expectations of being a No.1 overall pick. Carr is not the perfect quarterback and he still has some flaws, but he is not at all fully responsible for the offensive woes in Houston. Carr's accuracy is not exceptional, as he has consistently overthrown his receivers, but has often thrown on the run. His unique delivery leaves him susceptible to batted down passes and his interception totals are unimpressive. Carr has been error-prone in his early career and his game management skills still need to be sharpened, but he has the tools and talent to eventually develop into an elite NFL Quarterback.

texplayer2
01-12-2006, 11:37 PM
the first year he might not, but wait until 3-4 years from now he'll be lightyears ahead of carr


In 3-4 yrs. the price of gas could be 4-5 $ a gallon. The National Championship Game of 2006, will be a fading memory and the Texans MIGHT be in a Superbowl with Carr, Reggie, and that awesome line we developed along the way. Kubiak Might be coach of the year that year also.

MYDAUGHTER'STEXANS
01-13-2006, 07:29 AM
I Do Agree We Need To Give David One More Year, Let's Face It People Young Is Good In College But This Is The Nfl Only The Best Of The Best, I Do Not Believe Playing Baylor, Rice And Texas A&m Are Even Close To Nfl Standards. When Are You People Going To Give David Carr Any Credit, He Has Taking A Beating For The Team And The Fans Of Houston. Give Him A O-line And Let's See How He Does, Vince Young Is Good, But We Already Have A Great Qb, Let's Pass On Him And Give Our Qb One More Chance. Please Back Up The Players We Already Have And Stop Looking For Just One Man That Win's The Rose Bowl To Make All The Difference.

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 07:54 AM
I want the Texans to win, and giving Vince a couple Years because he went to UT is not an acceptable line of logic to me. :penalty: I would definitely expect results out of our #1 pick no matter who he is.


I'm just saying Fans will give management a break.......... With Vince, we'll win at least 6 games.......if you can honestly see Carr winning 6 games next year, and think that is fine, and good, then by all means....... support your quarterback.

HoustonFrog
01-13-2006, 07:59 AM
DB, I liked your post above. When you are 2-14 and have been unsuccessful for 4 years well then NOBODY DESERVEs to be on the team because it is obvious that you don't have the talent to win. Is it all Carr's fault?No, but I don't see why people don't think he is blameless and that the team let him down. He caused many of his own problems and IMO I don't have faith in the guy. Right now no one deserves anything and we need to get to the point in the franchise where people have to beat out or earn their time.

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 08:17 AM
Right now no one deserves anything and we need to get to the point in the franchise where people have to beat out or earn their time.

I think........ Honestly, that Domanick deserves to be on this team. We've got no passing offense, we are one dimensional, and he nearly got 1000 yards. He get's hurt, true. I'm willing to give him at least one year, to see if he can stay healthy. Of course, if Wells, or Morency comes in, and get the job done, they deserve to start, and DD will have to take his carries when he can get them, and make the most of them. But there is no way, I'd use a #1 overall for any running back, it just doesn't make sense to me.

Dennis007
01-13-2006, 09:47 AM
I think........ Honestly, that Domanick deserves to be on this team. We've got no passing offense, we are one dimensional, and he nearly got 1000 yards. He get's hurt, true. I'm willing to give him at least one year, to see if he can stay healthy. Of course, if Wells, or Morency comes in, and get the job done, they deserve to start, and DD will have to take his carries when he can get them, and make the most of them. But there is no way, I'd use a #1 overall for any running back, it just doesn't make sense to me.


What's so funny is how the DC suppoters use the excuse of the OL but want to draft Reggie as if we don't have a solid RB in DD....

If everyone is going to make excuses for DC about why he is sooooo unsuccessful then DD needs to be praised that much more for having a solid year with no OL.

The RB needs an OL just like the QB..

Excuses, excuses for DC- :blah: Trade em!

TheOgre
01-13-2006, 11:03 AM
Just fetched this near season's end list of Texans needs with an unbiased opinion, not great stuff but at least it does take us back to some root issues before the end of season. http://football.about.com/od/teamneeds/a/teamneeds_HOU.htm


Good find. I agree with his take. Basically as far as starters go on defense we DEFINITELY need to sign good to great veterans to play LDE and at least one of our safety positions. I think we can survive with Babin at RDE and CC Brown starting at one of the safety positions for at least one year. I'd like to see if Babin can return to his college pass rushing skills if he is on the line (remember some of his best games in college were against BCS conference teams). We could also take a safety with a 3rd-4th round selection to give CC competition and add depth. Glenn Earl isn't starting material, but he is good enough to be our backup SS. Depth might be an issue at MLB and DE, but we cannot fix everything in one offseason.

Offensively we will likely add Bush (but potentially Young). We should draft a OL and TE with our 2nd and one of our 3rd's. Depending on how many of our starters on the line leave or are cut, will dictate how many FA's we have to sign. Since the guys Kubiak wants need to be lighter and quicker, I wouldn't be surprised to see us let Wiegert, Wade (lots of dead money though), and/or McKinney go. I don't see Pitts going anywhere though. We should sign wait until late in the FA period and snatch up an undervalued WR to compete with Mathis for our #2 slot. I'd like to see Gaffney come back as our #3 guy, but I don't know if he wants that.

Lots of decisions. I do wonder if Kris Brown "missed" those kicks or was manuveuring to get us the #1 pick. I guess if he is cut, we know our answer.

tulexan
01-13-2006, 11:07 AM
What's so funny is how the DC suppoters use the excuse of the OL but want to draft Reggie as if we don't have a solid RB in DD....

If everyone is going to make excuses for DC about why he is sooooo unsuccessful then DD needs to be praised that much more for having a solid year with no OL.

The RB needs an OL just like the QB..

Excuses, excuses for DC- :blah: Trade em!

Pass blocking and run blocking are very different. An OL can be good at one and bad at the other. We have a good run blocking line, but a bad pass blocking line.

thunderkyss
01-13-2006, 11:08 AM
What's so funny is how the DC suppoters use the excuse of the OL but want to draft Reggie as if we don't have a solid RB in DD....

If everyone is going to make excuses for DC about why he is sooooo unsuccessful then DD needs to be praised that much more for having a solid year with no OL.

The RB needs an OL just like the QB..

Excuses, excuses for DC- :blah: Trade em!

That is even when you acknowledge RunBlocking is not the same as Pass protection. Look at Denver, those guys are great at Pass Protection. Why shouldn't we think David should be having the kind of season Jake is having??

David is a fine QB, but he needs a pocket to pass from. These guys won't give it to him, and you won't transform them over one offseason. We need a guy who can pass on the move...

bigTEXan8
01-13-2006, 11:21 AM
I think that besides Bush, the only offense that we need to draft is a TE. I got big-ups on David Thomas from UT. Other than that, I want all D. Maybe some rookies won't give up leads all the time.

TexansTrue#1Fan
01-13-2006, 11:35 AM
I really want to see Carr succeed here. he has been done disservice for a minute here. Sure there were some areas that he could/should have used better judgement, but he hasn't been Joey Harrington bad.

With an offensive minded coach sre to get the job let's see what Carr does.
Watching the texans this season made me wonder, is the problem really our offensive line or is it David Carr? Our OL almost had a 1000yd runner (due to injury DD missed it by 24yds), and two other rb that had a combine yds of 509, almost getting 1500yds is really good. Carr, watching him all year, he held the ball to long (they are called 3 step drops for a reason), when he audible to a quick slant, he held the ball too long and got sacked, a quick slant needs the freakin ball thrown quickly, and he also has trouble throwing the deep ball accurately. And I'm sure you all saw the 49ers v. Texans game, first half stats Carr was 4/11 for 23yds, 23YARDS!!! that's ridiculous. It was a good thing he got hurt, on the first play banks was there he completed a 31 yard pass, on his first pass completion he already had more yards than Carr did in the first HALF. I think Carr has been given to much leverage because of his mechanics, the thing is he's a terrible quarterback, the last game Banks showed that it's not the O-Line, but rather Carr.