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Goldeagle
01-09-2006, 08:13 PM
Do you think this combination will work? Whether you think Bush is God, or Bush is subpar, Kubiak in Denver has been able to make average running backs look great.

Just curious on your thoughts.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 08:15 PM
If there is one system that could make him look better than he actually is it would be the Denver system. The real question is whether he can bring the success of the Denver system to Houston.

ccdude730
01-09-2006, 08:16 PM
denver's system + reggie = "....wont that tear a hole in the universe or something?"

DD and coach k can work just fine with me

Runner
01-09-2006, 08:26 PM
Interesting thought. Denver's zone blocking scheme allows them to plug in a variety of backs and get similar results year after year. The Texans' zone blocking scheme allows Wells to replace Davis and post similar numbers, the same with Morency (for one game anyway).

Hmmm.

Given that, if Kubiak and Bush come here Kubiak may judge our lineman for their zone blocking skills first, and have them improve their pass blocking by:

a) better coaching
b) defenses respecting the run more
c) as well as an infusion of new blood

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 08:43 PM
Do you think this combination will work? Whether you think Bush is God, or Bush is subpar, Kubiak in Denver has been able to make average running backs look great.

Just curious on your thoughts.


What I think is that the Denver system gets any reasonably talented back put into it very good numbers. What stands out most though is that when they put an exceptional back in there the numbers go way up. Terrell Davis had monster numbers in this system. Olandis Gary not so much but still very good. he went elsewhere and did nothing. Anderson had some pretty good numbers here and so did Droughns but Portis was going through the roof before he was traded. Ok, I take that back. He was having some very good years. Going through the roof was Terrell Davis.

In short you can get good numbers easily but a top tier back is going to really leverage this system for huge numbers. Terrell Davis running in this system four years in a row did 1117, 1538, 1750, and 2008 yards from 1995 to 1998 before injuries brought him down. Clinton Portis did 1508 and 1591 in his two years in Denver. Portis did his damage in Griese's last year and Plummers first so it's not like he had John Elway taking care of the pasing duties.

Notice also that Denver plugs a lot of backs into their system because they tear up a lot of backs. They run the ball a lot and so if the Texans hire Kubiak, plan on running this offense, and draft Reggie Bush I don't look to see Domanick Davis going anywhere. They'll use them both. I think Bush will love this offense with it's emphasis on the RB cutting back through the gap and taking off. He's going to excel in it.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 08:47 PM
What I think is that the Denver system gets any reasonably talented back put into it very good numbers. What stands out most though is that when they put an exceptional back in there the numbers go way up. Terrell Davis had monster numbers in this system. Olandis Gary not so much but still very good. he went elsewhere and did nothing. Anderson had some pretty good numbers here and so did Droughns but Portis was going through the roof before he was traded. Ok, I take that back. He was having some very good years. Going through the roof was Terrell Davis.

In short you can get good numbers easily but a top tier back is going to really leverage this system for huge numbers. Terrell Davis running in this system four years in a row did 1117, 1538, 1750, and 2008 yards from 1995 to 1998 before injuries brought him down. Clinton Portis did 1508 and 1591 in his two years in Denver. Portis did his damage in Griese's last year and Plummers first so it's not like he had John Elway taking care of the pasing duties.

Notice also that Denver plugs a lot of backs into their system because they tear up a lot of backs. They run the ball a lot and so if the Texans hire Kubiak, plan on running this offense, and draft Reggie Bush I don't look to see Domanick Davis going anywhere. They'll use them both. I think Bush will love this offense with it's emphasis on the RB cutting back through the gap and taking off. He's going to excel in it.

Zone blocking is suited perfectly for Davis and Bush. I do not fully support bush, but I could live with him after a trade down and aquiring an extra pick or two.

Runner
01-09-2006, 08:47 PM
Notice also that Denver plugs a lot of backs into their system because they tear up a lot of backs. They run the ball a lot and so if the Texans hire Kubiak, plan on running this offense, and draft Reggie Bush I don't look to see Domanick Davis going anywhere. They'll use them both. I think Bush will love this offense with it's emphasis on the RB cutting back through the gap and taking off. He's going to excel in it.

Yep. If we pick Bush he'll save some wear and tear by being a threat at receiver while Davis takes some of the runs. It could be an interesting offense. Exciting even.

HeartofHouston
01-09-2006, 08:48 PM
Gary Kubiak + Reggie Bush = Playoffs

Bush puts up great numbers...

Defenses Respect The Run..

8 Men in the box..

Recievers 1 on 1 with CBs..

Big Downfield plays..

More Points..

More Wins...

Playoffs...

Eventually Superbowl Champions..

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 08:49 PM
It has also been said that with Kubiak, comes his O-line coach and WR coach. I could care less about the WR coach, but the O-line coach would better our current zone scheme, and might even give us denvers "mystic" effect.

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2006, 08:50 PM
What I think is that the Denver system gets any reasonably talented back put into it very good numbers. What stands out most though is that when they put an exceptional back in there the numbers go way up. Terrell Davis had monster numbers in this system. Olandis Gary not so much but still very good. he went elsewhere and did nothing. Anderson had some pretty good numbers here and so did Droughns but Portis was going through the roof before he was traded.

In short you can get good numbers easily but a top tier back is going to really leverage this system for huge numbers. Terrell Davis running in this system four years in a row did 1117, 1538, 1750, and 2008 yards from 1995 to 1998 before injuries brought him down. Clinton Portis did 1508 and 1591 in his two years in Denver. Portis did his damage in Griese's last year and Plummers first so it's not like he had John Elway taking care of the pasing duties.

Notice also that Denver plugs a lot of backs into their system because they tear up a lot of backs. They run the ball a lot and so if the Texans hire Kubiak, plan on running this offense, and draft Reggie Bush I don't look to see Domanick Davis going anywhere. They'll use them both. I think Bush will love this offense with it's emphasis on the RB cutting back through the gap and taking off. He's going to excel in it.

This is it in a nutshell. I am confident Kubiak can develop a QB, but can he communicate this blocking scheme without any of his cohorts before or currently with the Broncos. I trust that Team McNair will be asking to see who he brings on staff. Early rumors are the Denver Oline coach will come, that would be a big help in alleviating my own personal concern to this large facet of the Broncos success in the last decade.

Runner
01-09-2006, 08:52 PM
Gary Kubiak + Reggie Bush = Playoffs

Bush puts up great numbers...

Defenses Respect The Run..

8 Men in the box..

Recievers 1 on 1 with CBs..

Big Downfield plays..

More Points..

More Wins...

Playoffs...

Eventually Superbowl Champions..


8 men in the box - Bush moves to the slot - covered by a safety.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 08:52 PM
Gary Kubiak + Reggie Bush = Playoffs

Bush puts up great numbers...

Defenses Respect The Run..

8 Men in the box..

Recievers 1 on 1 with CBs..

Big Downfield plays..

More Points..

More Wins...

Playoffs...

Eventually Superbowl Champions..

It doesnt matter how many points we score, our Defense has proven that to be inadequate. Until the defense is addressed, no amount of offense will win us a game. We proved that this year. Our defense and Kris Brown easily lost us 5 games alone this year.

Grid
01-09-2006, 08:59 PM
yah our defense stunk it up.. but i think it is safe to say that Fangio can be blamed for the majority of that. His defense in Indi before he came here had the same issues... he makes his players think to much.. they arent allowed to depend on their instincts and it slows them down considerably.

Trust me.. our defense may not be amazing next year.. but a new DC will work wonders. We will see a noticable improvement with a better DC.

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 09:00 PM
It doesnt matter how many points we score, our Defense has proven that to be inadequate. Until the defense is addressed, no amount of offense will win us a game. We proved that this year. Our defense and Kris Brown easily lost us 5 games alone this year.


Yeah but Vic Fangio is gone. That alone might win us a couple of games.

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2006, 09:02 PM
yah our defense stunk it up.. but i think it is safe to say that Fangio can be blamed for the majority of that. His defense in Indi before he came here had the same issues... he makes his players think to much.. they arent allowed to depend on their instincts and it slows them down considerably.

Trust me.. our defense may not be amazing next year.. but a new DC will work wonders. We will see a noticable improvement with a better DC.

I agree 100%.

Runner
01-09-2006, 09:04 PM
yah our defense stunk it up.. but i think it is safe to say that Fangio can be blamed for the majority of that. His defense in Indi before he came here had the same issues... he makes his players think to much.. they arent allowed to depend on their instincts and it slows them down considerably.

Trust me.. our defense may not be amazing next year.. but a new DC will work wonders. We will see a noticable improvement with a better DC.

Yep. We might even allow our speed rusher to rush, rather than read and react.

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 09:09 PM
Yep. We might even allow our speed rusher to rush, rather than read and react.


No Antwan, how many times have I told you; read, THINK, and react. You never stop to think about what you're going to do. That's why you don't get more sacks.

Signed
Your pal, Coach Vic

Goldeagle
01-09-2006, 09:14 PM
It has also been said that with Kubiak, comes his O-line coach and WR coach. I could care less about the WR coach, but the O-line coach would better our current zone scheme, and might even give us denvers "mystic" effect.

Very true

Goldeagle
01-09-2006, 09:14 PM
Yeah but Vic Fangio is gone. That alone might win us a couple of games.



Vick is gone, the WITCH IS DEAD!!!

GP
01-09-2006, 10:45 PM
Yeah, if Kubiak is hired...I think it's a good bet that we'll grab Bush No. 1.

He'll want to replicate what he already has a good comprehension of in Denver in terms of zone blocking for the run game and using multiple backs.

Heck, it works so well...why re-invent the wheel? We're already doing that as we speak, so it won't be a conversion to something new.

The big question is at QB. Can Kubiak re-build Carr or not? I dunno. But if we draft Bush and with the way the Denver system has limited the pressure on Plummer to win the games on his own shoulders...I think it can work.

The problem with the Carr haters is that they are sooooo bitter about us losing the way we have this season that they are very very reluctant to let Carr off the ropes even for a breather. They smell blood and they want ANY dead weight out of the locker room (and they wanted it yesterday). Which, in a way is good because great teams don't get great without intense fans who pretty much set a standard for their sports team.

By the way Jags fan (and we know you're here) nice FG in your playoff loss. Bwaaa-ha-ha! :tv:

edo783
01-09-2006, 10:59 PM
The problem with the Carr haters is that they are sooooo bitter about us losing the way we have this season that they are very very reluctant to let Carr off the ropes even for a breather. :tv:

Orange nation will NEVER give Carr any credit for anything. Vince not here, Carr then is crap. Carr scores 40 TDs, throws for 4,800 yards, and 1 INT win 13 game and the refrain will be "He's a piece of crap, no leadership AND he threw an interception and lost 3 games, trade the dirt bag". It wont matter what he does, they will never let it go. Not very good fans of the Texans IMO, just following their schools guy.

GP
01-09-2006, 11:14 PM
I don't think it's so much that they are "following their school."

I think it's that they are just so thirsty for a winning formula that it's very difficult to see a guy DOMINATE a team like USC and to do it the way he did it with two heroic TD drives at the very end of the game. It's the last BIG game in college, and it shell-shocked the nation. Now we're already hungry for a piece of that ourselves and so a lot of people are getting all worked up into thinking that VY will do the same thing in Houston...if we can only convince the owner that it will turn out the same as it did in Pasadena.

That's why I am in the "trade the pick and get the 'Brick" camp. Bush was the hot commodity before Pasadena. Now Young is the hot commodity AFTER Pasadena. So which one is it? You can only pick one...

And I guess I am a conservative guy about most everything. I even play poker very conservative and rarely change gears in a game. I think we should let someone else over-commit to two guys that I think are more suited for the college game than they are for the NFL. That's all. I really want to see a star player who can anchor the o line like Pace or Gallery...someone to protect the blind side for a change, and give Kubiak and Carr the chance to pull a Jake Plummer and get our team into the playoffs.

But, I think we really are going to stay at No. 1 and take either Young or Bush. I am seeing things that convince me that Carr will be traded, and that will definitely create a wildfire of gossip and activity. It's probably going to happen if you ask me.

Lucky
01-09-2006, 11:56 PM
...Not very good fans of the Texans IMO, just following their schools guy.
I think it's more than that. It was easy for the Carr haters to morph into pro-Vince guys because it accomplishes their primary objective. Let's face it, Dom and his cronies weren't enough to satisfy the 2-14 bloodlust. Carr & Casserly needed to get the axe to destroy the remains of the evil C triumvirate.

Vince is just a metaphor for a new beginning. Let's pretend the past 4 years never happened. It's OK to lose next season, because the Texans are an expansion team again. These fans would rather lose with Young than give Carr another chance with a new coach, a new offense, a new weapon, and (hopefully) a new offensive line. Carr is the metaphor for their lost dreams.

The said part is that these fans would turn on Vince as soon as their patience runs thin (around the 2007 preseason is my guess). And it's because they see the NFL backwards. The QBs drive the hype, not the success. QBs need an offense system that works and players to protect and make plays for them. That's why guys like Big Ben and Palmer have had success, they were the last piece of the puzzle. For the Texans to go down the same road and expect a rookie QB to solve all of the team's problems would be ridiculous.

GP
01-10-2006, 12:03 AM
Exactly.

Picking up o linemen is just an ugly pick. Let's face it, we all want to be the team on ESPN highlights, getting the face-time as the team taking the dynamic player who will change the faceof the NFL forever.

And so it goes next year.

And next.

And next.

Where are each year's DYNAMIC playmaker who the talking heads hyped as being "the next so-and-so"?

It's just plain old modern-day theatrics. WWF used to be the place where people paid money to watch what they thought was "real." And now it's people watching ESPN and thinking that they are seeing real journalism in action. No, that's found on ESPN News channel. SportsCenter is the wisely-crafted sports tabloid. Period. And some of you guys are buying every edition as if it were The Enquirer at the check-out counter of a supermarket.

The End is Near!

Elvis Alive on A Spaceship!

Bush Next Gayle Sayers!

No, Wait A Minute...Young Is Love Child of Cunningham and Vick!

(sigh)

No chance of us trading down a couple of spots and picking up a star OL is there? Nope, I didn't think so.

Erratic Assassin
01-10-2006, 01:20 AM
Do you think this combination will work? Whether you think Bush is God, or Bush is subpar, Kubiak in Denver has been able to make average running backs look great.

Just curious on your thoughts.

Interesting point. Kubiak has seen first hand, the value of a good offensive line. You can put almost anyone behind Denver's line and get a ton of yards. He might be okay with Wells and DD, so no urgent need to get Bush.

Kubiak also has experience with average QBs. He might think he can turn David Carr into a decent QB, as long as he can keep him upright.

I HOPE that means that he would recommend that we FINALLY get a first-round offensive lineman. Unfortunately, I worry that he would want to get Bush thinking he can turn into a 2,000 yard RB like Terrell Davis. I just don't see how he can do that without a decent O-line.

I think the writing is on the wall. I'm already taking for granted that Kubiak will be our next coach. Supposedly he blew everyone away with his great interview and we know that Kubiak wants to come here. I suppose that he's probably the lesser evil out of the candidates.