PDA

View Full Version : If I was the Owner/GM, here's why I would draft Young...


BattleRedTexan
01-09-2006, 08:04 PM
This is my best opinion of why the Texans should go ahead a draft Vince Young (by the way, I don't think Vince Young is the answer to our problems, but I do think he will end up being a great QB).

If I was the Owner/GM of the Houston Texans, I would draft Vince Young #1, because:

1) If you don't draft Young, and he ends up being a great QB, then you look bad; and basically you spend the rest of your days hearing about how you "blew it" by not drafting Vince Young, and how we could of/should of had him. Ultimately, this ends up hurting your pocket book (the team becomes less profitable because you have jaded fans -- this would be even worse if the Titans got him).

2) If you don't draft Young, and he ends up being a bust, then you can say, "look I made the right decision." The fans can breathe a sigh of relief, because we did not draft a "bust," and everyone is happy because we didn't get caught up in the hype and make a "mistake." (once again, this is a hypothetical situation in which Young ends up being a bust -- which I don't think will happen).

3) If you draft Young and he ends up being a great QB. You can say, "look, I listened to the fans, and I made the right decision." You are a HERO of an Owner/GM, because first of all you listened to the fans, secondly you picked a "winner," and lastly because you brought home the hometown guy.

4) PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT (this makes my case for drafting Young). If you draft Young, and he ends up being a "bust." Then, you always have an "out." Basically, you go with this arguement:
"Well, I just did what the fans wanted. I was under tremendous pressure from the Houston fans and community to draft Vince Young, and I listened to what the FANS WANTED. I had my mind made up to draft Reggie Bush, but the fans wanted Vince Young." In this scenerio, you are unhappy that Young turned out to be a "bust," but on the other hand at least you can say you have an Owner/GM that cares about the fans (nothing like a Bud Adams). This scenerio kind of stinks, because basically it means that you wasted a #1 draft pick, but on the other hand it gives the fans some ACCOUNTABILTY. Some of the blame SHOULD be passed on to the fans, and ultimately nothing is lost nothing is gained.



So ultimately, if you draft Vince Young #1, it is a win-win situation. In one scenerio he turns out to be a "bust," but at least you are an Owner/GM that cares about what the fans want -- plus some of the blame can be passed down to the fans that DEMANDED the Texans draft Vince Young. In the other scenerio, Vince Young turns out to be a great QB, and the rest is history...

tulexan
01-09-2006, 08:13 PM
4) PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT (this makes my case for drafting Young). If you draft Young, and he ends up being a "bust." Then, you always have an "out." Basically, you go with this arguement:
"Well, I just did what the fans wanted. I was under tremendous pressure from the Houston fans and community to draft Vince Young, and I listened to what the FANS WANTED. I had my mind made up to draft Reggie Bush, but the fans wanted Vince Young." In this scenerio, you are unhappy that Young turned out to be a "bust," but on the other hand at least you can say you have an Owner/GM that cares about the fans (nothing like a Bud Adams). This scenerio kind of stinks, because basically it means that you wasted a #1 draft pick, but on the other hand it gives the fans some ACCOUNTABILTY. Some of the blame SHOULD be passed on to the fans, and ultimately nothing is lost nothing is gained.



I really don't think the fans will care if that is who they wanted. A bust is a bust and they will boo him no matter how popular he was. There will still be trade Vince signs, fire Casserly signs, fire Kubiak signs, draft whoever is the flavor of the month signs. It won't matter. All fans care about is results and if you aren't performing then they do not care.

Jerry
01-09-2006, 08:17 PM
As a fan (from Houston), I want the Texans to do whatever they can to field the team that has the best chances of winning a Super Bowl. I think that VY will be a good, maybe even great, QB, but I also think that Carr can too. We need help elsewhere (not at RB though). I don't see how having an out for screwing up is the best/most important though...Ditto what tulexan said there.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 08:39 PM
Failure with Young is forgivable. Failure with Bush is not, especially if VY succeeds elsewhere. McNair is not going to screw this up.

CyberTexan
01-09-2006, 08:44 PM
Failure with Young is forgivable ? and not Bush ? LOL are you serious ? neither will be forgivable period to these fans LOL

BattleRedTexan
01-09-2006, 09:06 PM
Seriously though...

When you have fans that are lining up outside of Reliant Stadium to sign a petition to sign Vince Young AND
Fans saying "let's boycott the team if they don't draft Vince Young,"
Then you have to take that seriously.

If I am the Texans, I am recording every TV News broadcast and Radio Show in Houston right now. The hype is freakin' ridiculous.

Then, when you have the initial press conference to introduce your #1 draft pick. You say, "we had planned on drafting Reggie Bush, but the fans asked for Vince Young." You make sure you have a video or recording of this...

That way, if Young does "bust," you have "proof" that you did it for the FANS.

And I disagree with the comment that you can't blame the fans, because when the fans are signing petitions and threatening petitions, you have to worry about TICKET SALES. As Bob McNair said in the last press conference:
"The head coach is judged by wins and losses, and the Owner is judged by the how many people are in the stands."

McNair is under PRESSURE right now to draft Vince Young. It seems to me that a large majority of Houstonians are saying "draft Vince Young." (if this is not true, then the "don't draft Vince Young" fans sure are not making themselves very visible). The fans and the Houston community are creating a situation where McNair has NO CHOICE but to draft Vince Young.

If you are against drafting Vince Young, then I suggest you form a group of people to go down in front of Reliant Stadium and make your voice heard. Maybe you can show McNair, that the entire city of Houston will not turn on him if the Texans choose not to draft Vince Young.

I, for one, will support the team no matter what they end up doing...

CyberTexan
01-09-2006, 09:11 PM
See your a Loyal fan as i am I will be a Texan fan no matter who they pick , it is a business decision and you cant make every fan happy but the only way to make most of them happy is to draft Young or Bush picking either one will make most the fans happy , if you trade down you will make even less happy so no matter which one Young or Bush either will be the best choice as far as the fans are concerned

tulexan
01-09-2006, 09:12 PM
McNair is going to do what is going to help the team the most. A winning team without Young will put more people in the stadium than a losing team with Young. If you think that people are going to show up to watch a losing team because of one player than you are mistaken.

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2006, 09:19 PM
I am not really sold on the ticket sales arguement. Please correct me if I am wrong, but weren't there 50,000 PSL's sold? That is about 75% of the stadium sold out with money in hand for the year. That leaves you just 25% to sell out for each game. And I have no inkling about the boxes, but you know those will be sold out.

To find 20k paying fans, if my estimation is correct, in a city of 4 million is not hard whether we have Vince or Bush. Follow the pick up with wins and in the end it will not have mattered if we drafted Snarfee McGee with the #1.

BattleRedTexan
01-09-2006, 09:19 PM
I hate to say this, but the team may be a losing team with or WITHOUT Vince Young (the Texans didn't have Vince Young this year, and they were a losing team).

So if you have a losing team (hopefully not, BUT it could happen):

A losing team with Vince Young SELLS MORE TICKETS, than
a losing team without Vince Young.

I would be willing to bet that you could sell more tickets to watch Vince Young lose, than to watch David Carr lose. Just my opinion...

But it doesn't make much difference, since Vince Young is going to be winner no matter where he goes (I just hope he doesn't go to the Titans).

CyberTexan
01-09-2006, 09:23 PM
we dont know for sure if Young is going to be a success or Bush for that matter either one or both could be a bust , if one is a bust and the other not I just hope we make the right choice

tulexan
01-09-2006, 09:36 PM
I would be willing to bet that you could sell more tickets to watch Vince Young lose, than to watch David Carr lose. Just my opinion...


They will sell out games no matter who is playing. The difference is that some people who have bought tickets just won't go to the games which means that the team loses out on concession and merchandise sales.

People will come to watch Reggie Bush to lose. Two weeks ago we were competing in the Bush Bowl and people were going nuts when we "won". Reggie is still the exciting player that he was two weeks ago and people will want to watch him play too. There are a lot of UT fans in Houston, but I am guessing that there aren't 3.98 million UT and Vince Young fans.

BattleRedTexan
01-10-2006, 08:20 AM
I agree with you that people will pay to see Reggie Bush, but

Vince Young also ends up being a success, people will still say that we should have drafted Vince Young.

Especially if we draft Bush, and the team has another losing season. You will constantly hear: "See, I told you we should have drafted Vince Young." Even if the losing had nothing to do with Reggie Bush or David Carr.

People in this city have decided that Vince Young is the answer for the Texans. Therefore, I say you draft him. If he ends up being phenomenal then that is good for us. If he ends up being a "bust" then as an owner/GM all of the blame doesn't lie squarely on you. You can just say: "Well I guess EVERYONE was wrong."

Heck, Bush and Young could both end up being "busts" for all we know (but this is highly unlikely).

Big B Texan Fan
01-10-2006, 08:36 AM
It doesn't matter what your needs are, you draft the best player available.

None of the linemen are gonna grade out better than the 3 Young/Leinert/Bush.

TheOgre
01-10-2006, 08:42 AM
It doesn't matter what your needs are, you draft the best player available.

None of the linemen are gonna grade out better than the 3 Young/Leinert/Bush.

But would a 2007 1st, a 2006 2nd, 2007 2nd, and OT D. Ferguson grade out better than Young/Line Art/Bush?

SteelBlueToro
01-10-2006, 08:51 AM
Failure with Young is forgivable.

PUT THE KOOL-AID DOWN!!! :party:

TexansFight
01-10-2006, 08:51 AM
They will sell out games no matter who is playing. The difference is that some people who have bought tickets just won't go to the games which means that the team loses out on concession and merchandise sales.

People will come to watch Reggie Bush to lose. Two weeks ago we were competing in the Bush Bowl and people were going nuts when we "won". Reggie is still the exciting player that he was two weeks ago and people will want to watch him play too. There are a lot of UT fans in Houston, but I am guessing that there aren't 3.98 million UT and Vince Young fans.

tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

SteelBlueToro
01-10-2006, 08:56 AM
I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.
It won't be because there's no VY - It will be because the team still stinks. Was VY here in year 1? WINNING CHANGES EVERYTHING!!!

cap1
01-10-2006, 09:00 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.



TexansFight. How can you say that because the Texans pass on VY that you will abandon them as a fan. Your are more of a problem to the Texans than anything. And for others here to say if we draft VY and he is a bust then it is Unforgivable. You people kill me. :twocents:

JDizzle
01-10-2006, 09:03 AM
But would a 2007 1st, a 2006 2nd, 2007 2nd, and OT D. Ferguson grade out better than Young/Line Art/Bush?

I like that deal, but I'm not for taking Ferguson in the top 5. If we trade back I think we should take the draft's top defensive player in Mario Williams. I'm just assuming we switch to a 4-3, and seeing as how we have no prototypical edge rusher for a 4-3 I think we should take the blue-chip DE and pick up a lineman or two in later rounds.

Marcus
01-10-2006, 09:04 AM
4) PROBABLY THE MOST IMPORTANT (this makes my case for drafting Young). If you draft Young, and he ends up being a "bust." Then, you always have an "out." Basically, you go with this arguement:
"Well, I just did what the fans wanted. I was under tremendous pressure from the Houston fans and community to draft Vince Young, and I listened to what the FANS WANTED. I had my mind made up to draft Reggie Bush, but the fans wanted Vince Young." In this scenerio, you are unhappy that Young turned out to be a "bust," but on the other hand at least you can say you have an Owner/GM that cares about the fans (nothing like a Bud Adams). This scenerio kind of stinks, because basically it means that you wasted a #1 draft pick, but on the other hand it gives the fans some ACCOUNTABILTY. Some of the blame SHOULD be passed on to the fans, and ultimately nothing is lost nothing is gained.

Fans holding themselves accountable? lol: Yeah . . . . right!

Fans . . . have the art of blame-shifting down cold. If Bush is drafted, and he busts . . . they'll blame it on McNair. If Young is drafted, and he busts, they'll blame it on the coaching.

But if Young succeeds, guess who'll take all the credit?

Big B Texan Fan
01-10-2006, 09:17 AM
But would a 2007 1st, a 2006 2nd, 2007 2nd, and OT D. Ferguson grade out better than Young/Line Art/Bush?
I see your point but I'm not a big fan of trading pix for pix. Why turn 1 potential bust into 3 potential busts. Now if we were to swap some pix for the same amount of pix and some seasoned NFL talent. Example, BV (before Vince), I was stoked about the possibility to swap pix with the Jets if they were to toss in Vilma. Now I'd rather take Vince and build around him. We already have a decent RB stable and 1 pro-bowl WR as well as a solid #3 wr in Mathis. Just need a TE, a couple of better line-men (they don't all need to be replaced), and some better coaching. Well the coching is coming, we should draft a linemen in the 2nd and a TE in the 3rd. Then we could focus next years draft on a solid #2 WR, more linemen.

I know I didn't mention the D but I was specifically talking about building around Young and that were not that far off.

JDizzle
01-10-2006, 09:25 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

LOL .... amazing. This whole "I'm taking my toy and going home" bit is just childish IMO.

We passed on Derrick Johnson last year and still sold out, didn't we? When did fans stop coming? When we started losing, that's when. I'm glad all fans don't have that type of mentality.

Dennis007
01-10-2006, 09:40 AM
Guys,

So what do you think is the plan? We know for sure, the Texans will pick up Carr's option in February.

Will we package him up? What do you think is the best plan once the Texans pick up his option and they decide to draft VY?:hmmm:

BigBull17
01-10-2006, 10:07 AM
If we draft VY Carr will NOT be traded. Period. To big of a cap hit.

MichaelMC
01-10-2006, 10:32 AM
I personally do not think the texans will draft VY. That is my answer, we will have to spend way to much money weather we trade Carr or let VY play backup for a while. It will not happen. For a bunch of people that have spent 4 years talking about staying out of cap trouble so we do not end up like the titans you are all sure ready to jump out of the pot and into the fire for VY. It makes no sence to draft VY unless you let Carr walk and get nothing out of it. Deal with it and move on already.:twocents:

Double Barrel
01-10-2006, 10:45 AM
They won't draft Young, in spite of the apparent overwhelming public demand for it.

Kubiak (most likely candidate) will install an offensive system that protects Carr and allows him to develop his QB skills accordingly. Along with two playmakers (AJ and Bush), and a solid RB corps, the new HC will implement a consistent scheme to put points on the board. It should be exciting football, and I hope we have a defense that can protect some leads. :howdy:

Holden135
01-10-2006, 10:55 AM
I don't think VY will be drafted by the Texans. Carr is coming back and either Bush will be here or Fergueson will along with a few extra picks.

Str8tupg42k1
01-10-2006, 11:32 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

Hey man, when you sell the tickets or when your friends sell their tickets let me know. No BS let me know for real cuz i'm willing to buy them just don't try to make 150% profit out of a team that is dead to you. If I dont hear from you you'll be like all the other fans just saying things but deep inside you know come next year you will be sitting in those seats watching Reggie Bush running the ball.

cadahnic
01-10-2006, 11:39 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

Sweet, then I'll be in line with tens of thousands of other fans to get your tickets at a cheaper price, last I called and checked it was a 7-8 year waiting list so maybe I'll only have to wait 3-4 after we don't draft Vince Young and draft Reggie, or maybe it will drop to 1-2 years after we don't get Bush either and trade down to fix the holes that are on this team and actually make the whole team better, then I'll be sitting with my nice, cheap tickets when we turn this thing around and all the Vince bandwagoners will either move to Nashville or be stuck back at the bottom of the list where they belong.

BattleRedTexan
01-10-2006, 01:15 PM
The fans who say that they will "sell their tickets" if we don't draft Vince, are WEAK fans in the first place, and frankly we don't need fans like that...

However, seeing that the way our fans react has convinced me that we need to draft Vince Young for the following reason:

The Texans have been around for 4 seasons now, BUT they are still a new (expansion) team. The Texans still haven't developed the sense of tradition, and the hardcore fan base (like the Oilers had) -- but it take time.

I think that taking the local guy, the Hometown Hero, will help to move the Texans in that direction. It will create some additional history and tradition for the team (similar to the Oilers having Earl Campbell).

I think that it will ADD to our fanbase (maybe we will even steal away some of the Cowboys fans in Houston, as well as some of the lingering Titans (i.e. Oilers) fans. Drafting Vince Young, will allow us to have one of the greatest Texas quarterbacks in history, playing for the Texans. It is only fitting to see Vince Young in a Texans uniform...

Kaiser Toro
01-10-2006, 01:28 PM
The fans who say that they will "sell their tickets" if we don't draft Vince, are WEAK fans in the first place, and frankly we don't need fans like that...

I do not classify a fan as strong or weak based upon their fiscal contribution to the Texans, specifically tickets/PSL. Just because they do not see value in the foreseeable 2006 product and choose to root for the Texans in other ways - print, internet, tv, etc. does not make them less of a fan.

If we want to keep the Texan nation strong then we have to act like one first. Although I quoted you am not singling you out as there have been many that have taken this line of thinking.

BREAZE
01-10-2006, 01:29 PM
The fans who say that they will "sell their tickets" if we don't draft Vince, are WEAK fans in the first place, and frankly we don't need fans like that...

However, seeing that the way our fans react has convinced me that we need to draft Vince Young for the following reason:

The Texans have been around for 4 seasons now, BUT they are still a new (expansion) team. The Texans still haven't developed the sense of tradition, and the hardcore fan base (like the Oilers had) -- but it take time.

I think that taking the local guy, the Hometown Hero, will help to move the Texans in that direction. It will create some additional history and tradition for the team (similar to the Oilers having Earl Campbell).

I think that it will ADD to our fanbase (maybe we will even steal away some of the Cowboys fans in Houston, as well as some of the lingering Titans (i.e. Oilers) fans. Drafting Vince Young, will allow us to have one of the greatest Texas quarterbacks in history, playing for the Texans. It is only fitting to see Vince Young in a Texans uniform...

Put it another way, if San Fran had the 1st pick and were saying they don't need an RB and where leaning toward a QB and VY what would the 49er fans be saying today? I'm going to go out on a limb and say they would turn this anger and hysteria up a notch...

BattleRedTexan
01-10-2006, 03:49 PM
I'm not saying that someone is a weak fan, because they are selling their tickets (or not supporting the Texans financially, etc, etc).

I'm saying they are a WEAK FAN for their reason for selling their tickets.
Their are a multitude of good reasons you could give for selling your tickets:
1) You're just not interested in Football anymore (you may be crazy, but if you are not interested, then there is no reason to have season tickets)
2) Maybe you experienced some financial hardship, and cannot affort the season tickets anymore.
3) There are MANY other GOOD reasons for selling your season tickets, BUT

Selling you tickets because you don't like the player the team drafted, or because you don't like the new head coach is WEAK. I don't care how you look at it, but in my opinion acting like a crybaby and threatening to "sell your tickets" if they don't draft player X, or coach Z, is SAD!!!

I hope the Texans decide to draft Vince Young also, but if they don't, I'll still be wearing my Battle Red and cheering for the Texans!

HomeBred_Texan
01-10-2006, 04:03 PM
Sell those tickets. "Wah, if you don't draft VY, blah blah blah". I will buy em also.

You know on his way to meet his agent this morning, Vince cured cancer and figured out how to breed burnt orange kittens that smell like gingerbread and fart sparkles. He walked on water to bless the Pope... Now he is working on the cure for the common cold....

Give me a break....

Double Barrel
01-10-2006, 04:18 PM
Most (but not all) NFL cities have their fair share of fairweather fans. But these same boycott-driven part-timers will be back in line once the Texans put a winning product on the field. Too bad for them that us diehard fanatics will have upgraded our seats, because they'll be sitting behind us at the games.

I certainly don't understand the "Young or bust" mentality. People are entitled to their opinions and belief systems, but I don't have to agree with it. I'll be rooting for the Texans regardless if they choose Young or Bush, or even if they trade away the pick for a sweeter deal. It's all good, because there's no way to go but up!

Kaiser Toro
01-10-2006, 04:41 PM
Most (but not all) NFL cities have their fair share of fairweather fans. But these same boycott-driven part-timers will be back in line once the Texans put a winning product on the field. Too bad for them that us diehard fanatics will have upgraded our seats, because they'll be sitting behind us at the games.

I certainly don't understand the "Young or bust" mentality. People are entitled to their opinions and belief systems, but I don't have to agree with it. I'll be rooting for the Texans regardless if they choose Young or Bush, or even if they trade away the pick for a sweeter deal. It's all good, because there's no way to go but up!

Me and my buddy are already plotting for our upgrade. One person's garbage is another person's treasure. 40 to 50 yard line here I come. :redtowel:

BattleRedTexan
01-10-2006, 10:17 PM
This is my question for EVERYONE: Do the Texans care what the fans want? (read my original post, and tell me if my arguement holds up -- i.e. worst case scenerio Young is a "bust" but the owner/GM can lay some of the blame on the fans for 'demanding' that they draft Young).

I, for one, believe that the Texans care A LOT about what the fans want. Heck they even have a "Help Desk" link on the homepage for fans to voice their opinion about who they want for the next head coach (how many other teams would do something like that?)...

I wouldn't be surprised if they end up putting a "Help Desk - Help Us with the #1 Pick" link up in the near future (look for it around February or March). If they do put this link up, they will be overwhelmed with Vince Young supporters.

In any case, if the Texans 'concede' to the fans wishes and draft Vince Young, do you think it is fair for the fans to "take some responsibility" for the pick. I think it is fair, and if you don't want to take responsibility, then you shout just keep your mouth shut and let the team do what they think is best.

(By the way, I don't care who the Texans pick. I'm a Texan fan for life!!!)

tulexan
01-10-2006, 10:27 PM
I believe to a point that they do care about what the fans think, but I don't think (at least hope not) that will concede to the fans' pressure. In the end, I would hope that they would do what is in the best interest of the team.

I also don't think that if whoever the fans want (Vince for example) is a bust that they will blame the fans. Even if it's true, fans generally don't want to hear that they are at fault.

On the flip side, I also don't believe that fans will take responsibility. Fans tend to have short memories and like I said earlier, do not want to accept that they are at fault. They will blame the coaches, GM, owner, and dare I say even Vince Young.

LoneStarState
01-10-2006, 10:35 PM
They will blame the coaches, GM, owner, and dare I say even Vince Young.
Blame Vince Young?! :shocked

BattleRedTexan
01-11-2006, 07:58 AM
Well, I haven't taken any kind of poll, BUT

if you listen to sports radio then you realize that 80+ % of the callers are pro-Vince Young, and basically all of the conversation this week has been about Vince Young.

It seems to me that a LARGE MAJORITY of the fans want the Texans to draft Vince Young.

You have to think that this has put the Texans under a great deal of pressure! (plus, if you read John McClain's article in the Houston Chronicle today, he notes that both of McNair's sons went to UT, and that McNair is likely getting "pro-Vince" propaganda from his sons).

I'm not saying that Vince Young is the answer or that we should draft him, but I am saying that THE FANS ARE MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE TEXANS NOT TO DRAFT VINCE YOUNG!

Kaiser Toro
01-11-2006, 08:17 AM
Well, I haven't taken any kind of poll, BUT

if you listen to sports radio then you realize that 80+ % of the callers are pro-Vince Young, and basically all of the conversation this week has been about Vince Young.

It seems to me that a LARGE MAJORITY of the fans want the Texans to draft Vince Young.

You have to think that this has put the Texans under a great deal of pressure! (plus, if you read John McClain's article in the Houston Chronicle today, he notes that both of McNair's sons went to UT, and that McNair is likely getting "pro-Vince" propaganda from his sons).

I'm not saying that Vince Young is the answer or that we should draft him, but I am saying that THE FANS ARE MAKING IT VERY DIFFICULT FOR THE TEXANS NOT TO DRAFT VINCE YOUNG!

Well that may be the case since Mr. McNair needs to look at what his market wants. If you have an apatheitc market will they be receptive to your product and service?

Let's face it VY did not just hit the radar as a great player since he was one of the nation's top players in HS when he graduated. He was one of the top players in the country last year. He finished second in the Heisman this year and led his team to the National Championship. Some people are painting VY as the flavor of the day. Whether you like it or not he will be a top three pick, he is that good of a prospect.

Bush, Leinart and Young are appetizing and should yield suitors. I still am in the trade down camp.

chuckm
01-11-2006, 08:19 AM
unless I'm mis-informed, McNair is a self-made billionaire ..... I suspect that he understands the value of marketing and public support .... However, I also suspect that he understands the value of listening to those with more football knowledge than he possesses ..... he hasn't called me to ask my opinion, nor has he called John McClain, or Richard Justice ... and I'm not expecting a call ... in the end this will be a football decision because the player he selects will be judged not by where he was born, or the college he attended, or how much the public adores him ...it'll be based upon what McNair (and his advisors) decides is the best fit for the Texans .... I just wish we could fast forward and get past all this crap ... as usual all this is IMO

chuckm
01-11-2006, 08:20 AM
I still am in the trade down camp.

I'm beginning to warm up to that idea as well ...

BeerTastesLikeVictory
01-11-2006, 08:37 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

Will you sell me your PSL's and donate the clothes to me, I wear an XL. In all honesty this is the reason our city is considered Fair-weather, because even if they did not take VY, in a few years from now if they go to the Superbowl or even playoffs you will be the one searching for tickets. My wife and In-laws are from Pittsburgh, PA so I have spent a lot of time in that area. During the Cordell Stewart years I would say 90% if the city hated him and gave the Fire Cowher speech. But none the less that stadium was FULL week in and week out, the fans still traveled as well, and there was still a 5-10 year waiting period on Season Tickets. As much as most people dislike the Steelers, I have to give credit to the majority of their fanbase. :bomb:

BigBull17
01-11-2006, 10:19 AM
tulexan you are flat our wrong. I own 2 PSLs in the field level with my parents. I fly down from New York frickin City to watch at least 4 home games a year. If the Texans pass on VY, I will be selling my PSLs and I won't spend another dime on the Texans. I will donate all of my Texans t-shirts, clothing, etc. to Goodwill. I am not alone in feeling this way. My friends who are also season ticket holders and who like me were diehard Oilers fans intend on doing the same thing. The Texans will be dead to us. The Texans are not the Oilers who I grew to love as a kid.

A sold out Reliant is not a lock especially if we pass on VY. I can see a lot of fans not renewing their tickets.

Dont let the door hit ya where the good Lord split ya.

BattleRedTexan
01-22-2006, 09:46 AM
A caller on Sports Radio 610 Friday, said something along the lines of my original post.

Basically, he said: "Fans in Houston would be more forgiving of a failed Vince Young, than they would be of a failed Reggie Bush or any other failed player for that matter."

His point was that Houstonians can forgive the Texans' management for drafting Vince Young, even if he turns out to be a letdown. However, if they draft ANYONE else other than Young, and that player turns out to be a letdown, the fans will not be forgiving.

Furthermore, he went on to say that the fans also would not be forgiving, if we let Vince Young get away and then he turns out to be a phenomenal player for some other team.

The caller had some good points to make, and Mark and Rich (sports radio 610)agreed with his points.

I think this is a very legitimate way to look at the situation. And from a purely PR standpoint, it makes sense for the team to draft Vince Young.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 10:35 AM
Here's my thing. SD took LT over Vick, and SD has gotten back 100 fold back from LT than ATL has gotten from Vick. I see this as the same situtation. Was Vick a SD native, no, but this is beyond home-town heroes. This is about the best player that can contribute to a team. Bush will be able to contribute more than Young will. I think that someone mentioned that a writer at a local paper (in Houston) said that the owners should not listen to the fans, but listen to their talent advisors or something along those lines.

Tulip
01-22-2006, 11:56 AM
I do not think the Texans' potential ticket problems will stem from boycotts. I think their biggest problem will be lack of interest. That's the main reason I have little interest in trading down. The Texans are still trying to take hold in Texas, and they just suffered a big setback year in terms of branding and marketing.

Like many of you guys, I intend to use this downswing to upgrade my tickets. But I'd rather sit in my same nosebleed seats next year and have the stadium full and enthusiastic than sit on the second row (30 yard line) like I did for the Jags game and watch with an unenthusiastic, half-full stadium. It's close, but it's not quite so fun.

Reggie or Vince would help marketing a great deal. Trading down is not the right move for marketing this year. The team desperately needs a boost.

Does anyone know what happens if a PSL holder doesn't sell the PSL but refuses to buy the season tickets? I'm just curious.

swtbound07
01-22-2006, 12:04 PM
Here's my thing. SD took LT over Vick, and SD has gotten back 100 fold back from LT than ATL has gotten from Vick. I see this as the same situtation. Was Vick a SD native, no, but this is beyond home-town heroes. This is about the best player that can contribute to a team. Bush will be able to contribute more than Young will. I think that someone mentioned that a writer at a local paper (in Houston) said that the owners should not listen to the fans, but listen to their talent advisors or something along those lines.


do you define production by wins or production by stats? Cause when vick plays, he has one of the highest winning percentages of a quarterback in the nfl.....i also didnt see the chargers in the conference championship game last year...but i sure saw atlanta.

vtech9
01-22-2006, 12:12 PM
Here's my thing. SD took LT over Vick, and SD has gotten back 100 fold back from LT than ATL has gotten from Vick. I see this as the same situtation. Was Vick a SD native, no, but this is beyond home-town heroes. This is about the best player that can contribute to a team. Bush will be able to contribute more than Young will. I think that someone mentioned that a writer at a local paper (in Houston) said that the owners should not listen to the fans, but listen to their talent advisors or something along those lines.
Then what you are suggesting is for the Texans to trade down? That is exactly what San Diego did. They traded down and took LT, and took Drew Brees with their 2nd round pick.

BobbyG
01-22-2006, 02:14 PM
McNair is going to do what is going to help the team the most. A winning team without Young will put more people in the stadium than a losing team with Young. If you think that people are going to show up to watch a losing team because of one player than you are mistaken.


Huh!? Michael Vick-Altanta Falcons.
That is just what happened. people line up to buy tickets because of Vick.

IMO Young is better than Vick coming out of college. And Altanta is not Vick's HOMETOWN

Nighthawk
01-22-2006, 04:12 PM
If I'm the owner or GM I draft Vince Young because

HE HAS A CHANCE, AND A PRETTY GOOD CHANCE, IT LOOKS LIKE, TO BE A GREAT QUARTERBACK IN THE NFL

and I'm sitting here with a QB who looks like in the best possible case is going to be run of the mill.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 04:15 PM
But would a 2007 1st, a 2006 2nd, 2007 2nd, and OT D. Ferguson grade out better than Young/Line Art/Bush?

I think it would. Sure up the o-line, get a bonus 2nd pick that we could use as trade bait or another solid player to add to the team.

Bubbajwp
01-22-2006, 04:22 PM
The GM doesnt care about putting fans in the stands he cares about putting a winning, Talented team on the field.

The owner wants fans in the stands.

bigTEXan8
01-22-2006, 04:23 PM
do you define production by wins or production by stats? Cause when vick plays, he has one of the highest winning percentages of a quarterback in the nfl.....i also didnt see the chargers in the conference championship game last year...but i sure saw atlanta.

Now you are just questioning strength of conferences. The NFC is weak beyond words. This year is one of their strongest showings in a long time. I mean, last year, other than Philly, there wasn't another strong NFC team, other than ATL, who was overrated to me. The AFC is way beyond the NFC when it comes to solid teams.

Then what you are suggesting is for the Texans to trade down? That is exactly what San Diego did. They traded down and took LT, and took Drew Brees with their 2nd round pick.

Yup...that's exactly what I think the Texans should do. That, to me, is the smartest decision we could make as a team. Is Bush awesome, yeah. I just feel we have more pressing needs.

whiskeyrbl
01-22-2006, 04:43 PM
It doesn't matter how many tickets you sell that won't win games. Now on the other hand you win games you sell tickets.I personally do not think VY is the answer.You draft bush you add someone who can do multiple things for you,yet he alone is not the answer.I think drafting bush and other solid picks and a couple good FA pickups will serve us better in the long run.

OzzO
01-22-2006, 04:59 PM
BRT - good post, however - if the GM turns from "well the coaches wanted.." to "well the fans wanted..." to point the blame - that's a new low. I do get the point you're making though and could be an easier out if Texans do take Young and turns to a bust.

Taking Young will sell more tickets, true - but it'll be just the hype machine selling them. If he does turn into the bust, the hype machine will die and we'll be back to "buy 1, get 10 free" tickets. Winning brings the fans, GM's and scouts find the players.... not the fans, not the coaches (to an extent).

Tulip - to answer your question, if a PSL owner does not buy tickets, they lose the seat and move to the back of the line (should they become ticket buyers again).

Jack Bauer
01-22-2006, 05:06 PM
do you define production by wins or production by stats? Cause when vick plays, he has one of the highest winning percentages of a quarterback in the nfl.....i also didnt see the chargers in the conference championship game last year...but i sure saw atlanta.

Here is the ultimate in Vince-lust. You are trying to say that you would rather have Mike Vick on your team than LT???

phan1
01-22-2006, 06:04 PM
This is loser talk. You draft people to win games. Not to make good excuses when you lose. :rolleyes:

thunderkyss
01-22-2006, 07:43 PM
Here's my thing. SD took LT over Vick, and SD has gotten back 100 fold back from LT than ATL has gotten from Vick. I see this as the same situtation. Was Vick a SD native, no, but this is beyond home-town heroes. This is about the best player that can contribute to a team. Bush will be able to contribute more than Young will. I think that someone mentioned that a writer at a local paper (in Houston) said that the owners should not listen to the fans, but listen to their talent advisors or something along those lines.


Neither player is considered a bust just yet..... But San Diego did draft a QB last year.

So let's say we are "San Diego" and will be looking for a QB next year, or the year after.... You're not going to have a VinceYoung available. Good runningBacks?? Without a doubt. Reggie Bush, no, but he isn't a RB per se... evaluate him as a RB against all the other RBs in the draft today, just as a RB.... forget what he's done when he isn't lined up in the back field... how does he stack up??

swtbound07
01-22-2006, 08:00 PM
Here is the ultimate in Vince-lust. You are trying to say that you would rather have Mike Vick on your team than LT???


in a word, yes. Its not vince lust, its pointing out the simple fact that no matter what you think about him being a traditional quarterback, he wins games. He wins a lot of games. You can spin that however you want, but the falcons win games with vick and lose without him. Check out starting quarterback winning percentages in the NFL since vick was drafted. Then check out the chargers winning percentage with LT. There is no reason to bash vick because you think he is overrated. High winning percentage, playoff wins, conference championship game, pro bowls (3). Not overrated. Good. Quite good.