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texan279
01-09-2006, 09:25 AM
Has us taking Bush at #1 because "we are comitted to David Carr" and thinks he'll have the most impact in the NFL. He also has Leinhart going before Vince Young. Woody and Skip are coming up to discuss what we should do on draft day.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 09:27 AM
keep us posted because at least I don't have cable.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 09:31 AM
Isn't it funny how Woody Paige backed up his reason for drafting Bush with facts while Skip Bayless backed up his reason for Young with superlatives and no facts?

Sounds familiar.

texan279
01-09-2006, 09:31 AM
keep us posted because at least I don't have cable.

Woody thinks we should draft Bush, he says Reeves said we should keep Carr. He said our front office has spoke to 5 or 6 current/past NFL scouts and think Carr will be a great QB. Woody says he would take Carr over Young. Skip says we should thank God that Young fell in our laps and it could ruin the franchise/fanbase for years if we do not draft him.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 10:55 AM
The public relations fiasco that will be a successful VY anywhere else means we're taking him. McNair likes money. VY guarantees him more of it. Period. There will be other Reggie Bushes. There's only one Vince Young. Once he works out, it will further solidify his spot as the number one pick. Trust me on this. If you doubt me, you haven't really been paying attention to what Young did at Texas.

MorKnolle
01-09-2006, 10:57 AM
The public relations fiasco that will be a successful VY anywhere else means we're taking him. McNair likes money. VY guarantees him more of it. Period. There will be other Reggie Bushes. There's only one Vince Young. Once he works out, it will further solidify his spot as the number one pick. Trust me on this. If you doubt me, you haven't really been paying attention to what Young did at Texas.

Successful teams are built on what is best for the team, not what sells the most jerseys or makes the highest percentage of the hometown fans happy for the two months from the draft leading into the season.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 11:00 AM
Successful teams are built on what is best for the team, not what sells the most jerseys or makes the highest percentage of the hometown fans happy for the two months from the draft leading into the season.

VY is best for the team. Reggie Bush comes along every year or every other year. Vince Young is the opportunity of a lifetime. You don't skip that for a generic 5' 10" running back.

Coach C.
01-09-2006, 11:02 AM
VY is the best for New Orleans. See we dont need him to make our franchise. We have a QB that is solid, so NO will need someone to sell tickets. It should be interesting to see how the combine plays out.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 11:06 AM
You really don't get it. None of you arguing against VY do. There is no one like him. If we skip on him, this franchise will never, ever live it down. He's THAT special. Bush isn't. Once you watch him play, once you see how big he really is, man.

He'll be a Texan because the entire franchise will be salivating once they meet him, work him out, and really break down his film and understands what he brings to the table. He's the best college football player in a generation and the best to ever play at Texas. That's saying a lot, but it is absolutely the truth.

He'll be a Texan. He's the best player on the board.

Coach C.
01-09-2006, 11:08 AM
I have personally sat next to Vince and shared a drink. I know exactly how big he is. I have never said that he wont be a good NFL QB, but will he revolutionize football? No. Will he add the running dimension to his team?Yes. Will he win early in his career? NO. He will go to a team that is not very good, and likely unless he goes to the Titans will have to play pretty early. His reads are ok, but his passing and decision making is erratic and lower NFL quality.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:09 AM
I forgot, he is already better than Peyton Manning like you said earlier

Blake
01-09-2006, 11:12 AM
VY is best for the team. Reggie Bush comes along every year or every other year. Vince Young is the opportunity of a lifetime. You don't skip that for a generic 5' 10" running back.


Hahaha! Now Reggie is a generic 5'10" back, that comes along every year!

Wow. I know you think VY is god, but lets not get crazy with all this Bush is mediocre talk.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:12 AM
Vince may look big in college, but he is roughly the same size as Aaron Brooks. If you want to see a big QB, look at Daunte Culpepper.

MorKnolle
01-09-2006, 11:13 AM
You really don't get it. None of you arguing against VY do. There is no one like him. If we skip on him, this franchise will never, ever live it down. He's THAT special. Bush isn't. Once you watch him play, once you see how big he really is, man.

He'll be a Texan because the entire franchise will be salivating once they meet him, work him out, and really break down his film and understands what he brings to the table. He's the best college football player in a generation and the best to ever play at Texas. That's saying a lot, but it is absolutely the truth.

He'll be a Texan. He's the best player on the board.

What Vince brings to the board:
One of the faster QBs in the league. Not anywhere near as fast as Vick but about at fast as Donovan McNabb or Daunte Culpepper in their rookie season about on par with Seneca Wallace or Kordell Stewart. He is taller than Michael Vick, but with his sidearm throw the ball will be released at about the same height. He is bigger than Vick and could break thru tacklers a little better, but not as well as 265 lb. Culpepper, and Vick can dodge them much better. His arm strength is questionable, his accuracy is quite good up to 20-25 yards, then gets pretty sloppy after that, not to mention any throw after that is lofted pretty high (has to be to get over DL), and in the NFL lofted, underthrown balls are INTs 90% of the time unless you have a T.O. or Randy Moss-type WR. His field vision is quite good against college cover 2 defenses, yet to see what it is like in the NFL. His leadership is pretty good, but once again at a college level, once he gets to the NFL it will take several years to step into the full-respected leadership position.

I do not necessarily want us to draft Bush either, but this nonsense about Vince Young being the best college QB ever or a once in a lifetime talent is ridiculous. He is a blend of size and speed that is not found overly often, but he does not have a great arm at all to go along with it.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 11:14 AM
Vince may look big in college, but he is roughly the same size as Aaron Brooks.

That's funny. Really it is.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 11:15 AM
Not anywhere near as fast as Vick but about at fast as Donovan McNabb or Daunte Culpepper in their rookie season about on par with Seneca Wallace or Kordell Stewart.

If you really believe this, you are doomed to support a loser of a franchise.

He's better than all of those players.

The Preacher
01-09-2006, 11:16 AM
Mission Accomplished: The whole world thinks we're taking Reggie. Now if you want him cough up some picks. Personally I think offense is overrated and I would be happy if we had a team like Chicago that could barely move the ball but had a bye and hosted their first playoff game. If the Texans had a dominant D they could achieve similar heights. Not that I don't want a couple of o-lineman because I do but the tables are set for our trade down. If Bush is our guy I will support that but I would MUCH rather see a move down to #4for an extra second and #1 next year. Then we could pick up super mario and build a dynasty built on defense. Address the 0-line with the two seconds if you want or with one if we get Bentley in FA. More D in the third and the foundation has begun. A move back to the 4-3 will help greatly if you ask me because it seems nobody is allowed to play with their instincts because they're too caught up in trying to figure out what they need to do for the scheme. Dunta even admitted it and I saw basically where whatever coach is getting interviewed is getting points deducted for wanting to stay with the 3-4 so I think that is set in stone already. We'll finally get to see these guys play with their ears pinned back(whatever that means). In the meanwhile let the media do the Texans' job until the draft rolls around.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:17 AM
Really it is? Vince Young is listed at 6'5 230. He, like all other college players, are not as big as they are listed. He is probably 6'4 220. Aaron Brooks is listed at 6'4 220 as well. If you don't believe me about height and weight differences, go back and check players and see what they were listed at in college compared to the NFL. Almost every single time they come in smaller and lighter.

Wordem
01-09-2006, 11:19 AM
Really it is? Vince Young is listed at 6'5 230. He, like all other college players, are not as big as they are listed. He is probably 6'4 220. Aaron Brooks is listed at 6'4 220 as well. If you don't believe me about height and weight differences, go back and check players and see what they were listed at in college compared to the NFL. Almost every single time they come in smaller and lighter.

Not this time. He's closer to 6' 6". You don't watch much Texas football, do you?

Aaron Brooks. Please.

Coach C.
01-09-2006, 11:22 AM
Preach I also agree we have the table set for a move down with the Jets. They will have to convince their franchise that they are still trying to win. A trade up I think would cost them 1st,2nd, 4th and next years 1st, 3rd. The 4th is just to try and steal another pick, but not overly neccessary. Hopefully we ink this deal and we Mario runs in the 4.6s and we get him at #4. If need be trade back into the first and get Huff or Winston, if not in the second take Joseph and Manny Lawson. In the third, Mangold and a Corner. Man I want our D to be tough and I believe from proof that our offense is ready to make plays and just needs a change of system. I think signing LeCharles Bentley is neccessary and would really like to get Winston. That would put us with Pitts, Joseph, Bentley, Weigert, Winston. Damn that would be nice.

Coach C.
01-09-2006, 11:23 AM
Not this time. He's closer to 6' 6". You don't watch much Texas football, do you?

Aaron Brooks. Please.

Vince Young is not closer to 6'6". He is actually much closer to 6'4". sorry Wordem, take it from someone who has been around the guy.

groutfulone
01-09-2006, 11:33 AM
Vince Young is not closer to 6'6". He is actually much closer to 6'4". sorry Wordem, take it from someone who has been around the guy.


Actually, Wordem has stood next to the guy and gone to all of VY's home games. VY is as big as he is listed. Michael Vick was listed as 5' 10" 195 lbs. at VaTech and is now listed as 6'0" 215 lbs., his fastest 40 times were on an indoor track and his outdoor times were in the 4.4 range. VY's outdoor times are in the 4.4 range and he is at least 6'5" 230 and will probably be at least 245 in the next two years.
VY was the highest rated passer in D1 this year and he is the first quarterback EVER to pass for 3000 yds. and rush for 1000 yds. in a college season.

Reggie bush is a utility back and that is why he was on the bench when USC had their most important play of the year.

MorKnolle
01-09-2006, 11:37 AM
Vince finished the season as the 3rd ranked passer, go check it out if you are not convinced, not to mention he drops down the list if you configure it on an NFL rating system. I don't know why people keep saying he's #1. I have also seen Vince in person, he could be 6'5" but he's definitely not 6'6". Vince is not as fast as Michael Vick, and if he gets up to 245 he definitely won't be.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/statistics

groutfulone
01-09-2006, 11:43 AM
Vince finished the season as the 3rd ranked passer, go check it out if you are not convinced, not to mention he drops down the list if you configure it on an NFL rating system. I don't know why people keep saying he's #1. I have also seen Vince in person, he could be 6'5" but he's definitely not 6'6". Vince is not as fast as Michael Vick, and if he gets up to 245 he definitely won't be.

http://sports.espn.go.com/ncf/statistics

Corrected, third according to ESPN, that definitely doesn't include the bowl games. I'll have to search for those. I remember reading several times that Young was the highest rated passer coming in to the Rose Bowl, I'll have to search for that also. And yes, he is as fast as Vick.

edo783
01-09-2006, 11:51 AM
Preach I also agree we have the table set for a move down with the Jets. They will have to convince their franchise that they are still trying to win. A trade up I think would cost them 1st,2nd, 4th and next years 1st, 3rd. The 4th is just to try and steal another pick, but not overly neccessary. Hopefully we ink this deal and we Mario runs in the 4.6s and we get him at #4. If need be trade back into the first and get Huff or Winston, if not in the second take Joseph and Manny Lawson. In the third, Mangold and a Corner. Man I want our D to be tough and I believe from proof that our offense is ready to make plays and just needs a change of system. I think signing LeCharles Bentley is neccessary and would really like to get Winston. That would put us with Pitts, Joseph, Bentley, Weigert, Winston. Damn that would be nice.

Right on target again IMO. Geez, you must be a Coach or something.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:54 AM
Corrected, third according to ESPN, that definitely doesn't include the bowl games. I'll have to search for those. I remember reading several times that Young was the highest rated passer coming in to the Rose Bowl, I'll have to search for that also. And yes, he is as fast as Vick.


That does include the bowl games and no he is not as fast as Michael Vick.

MorKnolle
01-09-2006, 11:57 AM
Corrected, third according to ESPN, that definitely doesn't include the bowl games. I'll have to search for those. I remember reading several times that Young was the highest rated passer coming in to the Rose Bowl, I'll have to search for that also. And yes, he is as fast as Vick.

He was the highest going into the bowl week but he got beat out by two others during that week. ESPN's ratings do include the bowl games because he was not at 3000 passing yards or 1000 rushing yards before the Rose Bowl.
As a side note, out of the top 10 college rating QBs, here's what their ratings in the NFL would be:
Rudy Carpenter, Arizona St. - 121.8
Brian Brohm, Louisville - 113.4
Vince Young, Texas - 109.2
Troy Smith, Ohio St. - 110.1
Drew Olson, UCLA - 114.1
Phil Horvath, N. Illiois - 107.0
Brady Quinn, Notre Dame - 109.7
Matt Leinart, USC - 105.3
Colt Brennan, Hawaii - 105.7
Drew Stanton, Michigan St. - 100.2

Out of those 10, Vince is rated 6th on the NFL rating scale. (http://footballguys.com/qbrating.htm)

whiskeyrbl
01-09-2006, 12:24 PM
Granted i agree that both players have potential to be elite at this level,BUT
The Texans have a good QB and a couple of good RB's.The part we are missing is an OL.Trade the #1 overall to NY jets for their #4 1st round pick (D. Ferguson),an established OL and next years first rd. pick

beerlover
01-09-2006, 12:36 PM
it would be fair to think that the Texans will get some very tempting offers for that #1 pick, so who really knows what the future will bring, I'll just stick to evaluating talent because there are just too many combinations to consider.

as far as trading down partners some on this board have done a very comprehensive analysis of the possibilites. as much it would be nice to have a VY or Bush in a Texan uniform I would be lying if I said that it would'nt be nice to extract some pain from the Titans, meaning trading the #1 pick to a team that wants VY, cause you know thats who they want- its going to come with a high price- take Al Davis Oakland Raiders what would you all say to a trade with them that could possibly include not only their #1 this year (not sure if its a #6 or #7 at this point) but next year as well plus RT Robert Gallery?

that would work for me! Bud does not get his man, the Texans address the offensive line & can take one of the highest rated 4-3 defensive playmakers in this years draft plus another high pick the following year. hey at this point anything is possible:)

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 01:59 PM
it would be fair to think that the Texans will get some very tempting offers for that #1 pick, so who really knows what the future will bring, I'll just stick to evaluating talent because there are just too many combinations to consider.

as far as trading down partners some on this board have done a very comprehensive analysis of the possibilites. as much it would be nice to have a VY or Bush in a Texan uniform I would be lying if I said that it would'nt be nice to extract some pain from the Titans, meaning trading the #1 pick to a team that wants VY, cause you know thats who they want- its going to come with a high price- take Al Davis Oakland Raiders what would you all say to a trade with them that could possibly include not only their #1 this year (not sure if its a #6 or #7 at this point) but next year as well plus RT Robert Gallery?

that would work for me! Bud does not get his man, the Texans address the offensive line & can take one of the highest rated 4-3 defensive playmakers in this years draft plus another high pick the following year. hey at this point anything is possible:)

I would cry of joy. Gallery is a beast, and we avoid having Young to the Titans. That would be ideal. We are then allowed to adress the defensive side of the ball.

That is probally the best trade down I have seen yet.

The Preacher
01-09-2006, 02:03 PM
Aren't the Raiders WAY over the salary cap? I would probably be a for a trade down with any team if it was reasonable but I think their situation makes it difficult.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 02:30 PM
Aren't the Raiders WAY over the salary cap? I would probably be a for a trade down with any team if it was reasonable but I think their situation makes it difficult.

I don't think the raiders are way over, but they would actually be helping their cap. Gallery is a very highly paid guy, and not having a #1 next year and a pick or so less this year is less they have to spend. Their team is also fairly old, and I imagine some of the expensive vets wont be back next year.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 02:46 PM
I can't see the Raiders getting rid of Gallery.

YoungTexanFan
01-09-2006, 03:17 PM
I can't see the Raiders getting rid of Gallery.

nor can I, but it was a proposed option that no true Texan fan could be opposed to.

exclude
01-09-2006, 03:22 PM
VY is best for the team. Reggie Bush comes along every year or every other year. Vince Young is the opportunity of a lifetime. You don't skip that for a generic 5' 10" running back.

Michael Vick was an opportunity of a lifetime.

I'd, and other people on this board, would much rather have the guy that got picked 5th that year than Vick.

Long Baller
01-09-2006, 03:47 PM
I am a huge Longhorn fan and what VY did in the Rose Bowl was spectacular, but as much as I love him, I don't think he is the best option for the Texans. My preference would be to trade down.

We are much better than 2-14 and I think this can be turned around quickly, but throw away Carr and switch to VY will set the team back 3 years.

VY may prove to be great, but Carr has shown he can do it with his arm and legs as well, so let's give him more support and move forward rather than totally rebuild. I want to watch a winning team on Sundays not just a spectacular athlete.

geofb
01-09-2006, 04:23 PM
It's really no surprise to hear Leinhart will go in the draft before Young. In the offseason if Vince could learn how to throw a spiral instead of a wounded duck, he might help himself a little.

HomeBred_Texan
01-09-2006, 04:33 PM
You really don't get it. None of you arguing against VY do. There is no one like him. If we skip on him, this franchise will never, ever live it down. He's THAT special. Bush isn't. Once you watch him play, once you see how big he really is, man.

He'll be a Texan because the entire franchise will be salivating once they meet him, work him out, and really break down his film and understands what he brings to the table. He's the best college football player in a generation and the best to ever play at Texas. That's saying a lot, but it is absolutely the truth.

He'll be a Texan. He's the best player on the board.
Me thinks you don't really get it...
The kid had "1" good year in college, not 2 or 3, BUT 1. And you want to ditch Carr for this? Not me... Bush will put fans back in the stadium, he can play immediately, Young can't. He should have stayed in college another year instead of coming out. Everyone though M Vick was the next best thing to gasoline for cars, but look what a QB flop he is. Give us a break. Go sell VY T-Shirts in NO please......