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View Full Version : HPF: No matter what we do,it will be wrong and we will "Eat it" twice a year


Wolf
01-08-2006, 05:17 PM
http://www.houstonprofootball.com/chair/arm44.html


At 8:00 PM EST this past Wednesday, Reggie Bush was the consensus #1 draft pick and the reining Heisman Trophy winner. He was on the verge of claiming an unprecedented third straight National Championship with a team that had people debating whether or not it was the greatest team ever.

Four and a half hours later, after gaining 177 yards from scrimmage on 13 carries and 6 receptions with a touchdown on an absolutely breathtaking run against one of, if not THE, best defenses in the nation, he’s being hailed in many quarters as an apocalyptic NFL bust. All thanks to the marvel that was Texas quarterback Vince Young’s Rose Bowl performance. Sura faints.

This is in no way an effort to disparage Young’s efforts. Anybody watching would agree that his play was, at times, jaw-dropping, particularly in the fourth quarter. What I am wondering is how this, in any way, detracts from Reggie Bush’s stellar career and more importantly, how it affects the Texans and the #1 pick.

Other than the ridiculous (and costly) lateral he attempted in the first quarter, Bush was everything that’s been advertised. Of course, many would have liked to see him more involved in the game, but that’s nothing more than an indication of how inept Pete Carroll is as a head coach. Again, Bush has been hailed as the best player in college football, the Heisman Trophy winner, and the consensus #1 pick all year… and on fourth and two with immortality on the line, he was on the sideline. Carroll lined LenDale White up alone in the backfield and played big.

Gee, I wonder who’s gettin’ the rock. Undiscovered life forms on undiscovered planets in undiscovered galaxies located undiscovered units of measurement away knew White was getting the ball. I’m pretty sure all eleven Longhorns on the field hit him simultaneously because they knew he was getting the ball.

But, Pete Carroll, Suuuuuuuuuper-Geeeeeeeenius, can’t figure out a way to get the Heisman Trophy winner and consensus future NFL superstar onto the field. Even if Bush DOES have some kind of deficiency that only he knows about, he can’t figure out that maybe, just maybe, Reggie could be used as a decoy? And even if the Horns KNEW about Reggie’s Achilles heel and didn’t fall for the decoy and thus keyed on White anyway leaving all kinds of room outside he can’t figure out how to have Leinart audible? Really??? And this all somehow means that Reggie’s gonna bust? Based on the results of ONE game? A game in which he played marvelously despite his coach’s ineptitude?

Bottom line, Reggie Bush is as good today as he was before the Rose Bowl, and his performance, by any objective analysis, supports this. Again, 177 yards from the line of scrimmage on 19 touches. Against, possibly, the best defense in the nation. And on a night when his head coach flat out choked.

big homey
01-08-2006, 06:10 PM
That was (sadly) kind of funny. Sometimes I share the same thoughts. It seems like we're cursed - no matter what the team will make the wrong move.

LikeABoss
01-08-2006, 06:22 PM
I agree with what he said. Reggie Bush should have at least been on the field as a WR to at least draw the attention away from Lendale White. Texas game planned to contain Bush not Lendale, Lendale had himself a good game off it too.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 06:23 PM
Vince accounted for 467 yards from the line of scrimmage and he won the national championship. He's the better player.

Hervoyel
01-08-2006, 06:27 PM
Vince accounted for 467 yards from the line of scrimmage and he won the national championship. He's the better player.


That was a heck of a game but it doesn't prove that he's the better player. That's speculation on your part. Nothing more. You just got that burnt orange "Rose Bowl Fever" that's going around.

As a matter of fact I don't think you've posted once on any subject other than how badly you want Vince Young to have your baby. Any other aspect of the Texans interest you? Anything?

dtran04
01-08-2006, 06:27 PM
The sad thing is that if we somehow got Young and Bush ends up shredding us up twice a year, people are gonna be like "Casserly is an *****. Bush was a no brainer." It really is a lose/lose situation.

Scooter
01-08-2006, 06:28 PM
you sure that was from HPF? it looks like something out of espn's page 2.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 06:29 PM
That was a heck of a game but it doesn't prove that he's the better player. That's speculation on your part. Nothing more. You just got that burnt orange "Rose Bowl Fever" that's going around.

As a matter of fact I don't think you've posted once on any subject other than how badly you want Vince Young to have your baby. Any other aspect of the Texans interest you? Anything?

I feel that strongly about it. You don't miss out on history. Those of you who still doubt VY's ability haven't watched him play nearly enough.

dtran04
01-08-2006, 06:38 PM
The only way the Texans don't get screwed is if Bush decides to stay at school.

Marcus
01-08-2006, 06:40 PM
I feel that strongly about it. You don't miss out on history. Those of you who still doubt VY's ability haven't watched him play nearly enough.

I believe Hervoyel asked you something.

As a matter of fact I don't think you've posted once on any subject other than how badly you want Vince Young to have your baby. Any other aspect of the Texans interest you? Anything?

Well?

Wordem
01-08-2006, 06:45 PM
I think Casserly should have gone with Capers. That was a mistake on McNair's part, who I believe is a good owner. I have no problem with Kubiak being named the head coach. He's learned from one of the best. I also think we're fine at RB with Davis. The problem is leadership on the field, and that falls at the feet of David Carr. And of course the O-line sucks.

McNair is in a difficult spot. As a lifelong fan of Houston's teams, having spent a good part of my youth in the Dome watching legends like Nolan Ryan and Earl Campbell, I know McNair would be making a BIG mistake in the eyes of many Houstonians if he passes on Young. He really is a special athlete and a special football player.

pskinny
01-08-2006, 08:21 PM
My thoughts exactly. I couldn't have said it any better than HPF. I'm not a Longhorn fan, but I understand the Horn fans who would love to see the man that brought them a national championship in a Texans uniform next season. What I can't understand is how Bush went from savior to scrub in a matter of three in a half hours, and Vince went from not worthy of the number 1 pick to the next coming of Jesus. Wake up!!! Bush is still the same player he was before the Rose Bowl....Remember? The next Barry Sanders, not Desmond Howard.

We all need to realize that the Texans have invested multiple millions of dollars into David Carr, and they are not going to give up on him until they believe he's been given a fair chance to excel. Meaning, put him behind a Oline that could block my 86 year old grandmother blitzing up the middle. And put him in an offense that allows him to showcase his abilities like he did at Fresno, not this three step drop, WR screen, or drop off to Dominick BS that we see week after week for the last three years.

That being said, it is pretty obvious to me that regardless what Horn fans want to happen, VY is not coming to Houston. Please stop acting like you'll cease to be a Texan fan if the Texans pass on Young. Cause you know you'll be on your feet screaming the first time Bush does his dive and roll into the endzone...."ROCK AND ROLL!!!! Touch down, Reggie Bush!!!!"

Trapped
01-08-2006, 09:06 PM
Gyep, Wolf is right.

We will either have to see Reggie Bush twice a year or Vince Young twice a year. Pick ur poison.

I think we as fans kinda feel that the Texans will make the wrong decision no matter what.

If we draft Vince Young, he will be considered a bust cuz Carr might turn into a Drew Brees and we have all this money tied up at the QB position. And if we draft Reggie Bush, Vince Young later on becomes an "elite QB" for an opponent that we hate and that we should of just drafted him cuz he was a houston product while Reggie Bush looks like "average".

I heard all the scenarios, let's just support houston no matter who they draft.

Wolf
01-08-2006, 09:16 PM
IMO .. the only solution is to get some players on the defensive side of the ball,because we are going to have our hands full for the next 5+ years after this draft either way

YoungTexanFan
01-08-2006, 09:24 PM
IMO .. the only solution is to get some players on the defensive side of the ball,because we are going to have our hands full for the next 5+ years after this draft either way

I think a consensous agreement will soon be reached on this point.

BREAZE
01-08-2006, 09:27 PM
I heard all the scenarios, let's just support houston no matter who they draft.

This is the biggest misunderstanding I get from this whole debate. Everyone wants what's best, but I would think we all realize whatever happens we will improve drastically in the long run...at least I hope we realize this.

However, assuming someone becomes a bust if you were GM/Owner and were going to take one of these 2 no matter what then selecting Houston's favorite son may be the safe choice because the fallout would not be as dramatic if VY turns bust. If you choose Bush and he becomes a bust then a bigger black eye is sustained. If you trade down and don't select either one then history will reflect back that you were trying to address needs.

One things for sure, the Titans could not pick a better year to get the 3rd pick and whoever they get will be a handful for us for many years to come...but it goes both ways.

I'm just glad I'm not the GM/Owner...

beerlover
01-08-2006, 09:38 PM
mistake if we squander the opportunity to address needs in areas of this draft that are deep & talented. meaning we can still address the offensive line & Linebackers in the 2nd & 3rd rounds after we take the #1 playmaker Young/Bush. if the Texans go VY I sure would be :) to take Pope 2nd. rd.

Offensive side of the ball- Offensive Tackles, Guards & Centers above average.

Defensive side of the ball- Inside & Outside Linebackers above average

awtysst
01-08-2006, 09:43 PM
mistake if we squander the opportunity to address needs in areas of this draft that are deep & talented. meaning we can still address the offensive line & Linebackers in the 2nd & 3rd rounds after we take the #1 playmaker Young/Bush. if the Texans go VY I sure would be :) to take Pope 2nd. rd.

Offensive side of the ball- Offensive Tackles, Guards & Centers above average.

Defensive side of the ball- Inside & Outside Linebackers above average

Beer,
I was just thinking, if the Texans do take Vince Young they should take a Guard or RT in the second round to provide him some extra protection. Then in the third round the Texans can take a defenisve player with pick 1 and a TE that Vince is very familair with: David Thomas.
Any thoughts?

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 09:52 PM
The main problems I have with this thread are these:
-I never believed Bush would be a dominant player in the NFL. He will be good, about as good as Warrick Dunn as a utility back, but not a running back legend. Why else was he on the bench for USC's most important offensive play of the year? NOT because Carroll is a bad coach. Please! He took a fallen school team to the brink of 3 national championships! He is fantastic. No, Bush was on the sidline because he is not a dominant runner against good teams. He is good a pushing guys in to the end zone, however.

-Vince Young is the most dominant quarterback to EVER play college football. He was the highest rated passer in D1 this year and is the first quaterback to throw for 3000 yds and rush for 1000 yds, EVER!

-This is a once in a lifetime opportunity for this franchise just like Jordan was for us, Portland and Chicago. He is that amazing of a player. As big as Ben, as fast as Vick as accurate and poised as Montana. He will win multiple Super Bowls.

BREAZE
01-08-2006, 09:59 PM
He is that amazing of a player. As big as Ben, as fast as Vick as accurate and poised as Montana. He will win multiple Super Bowls.


...and possibly all in Titan gear! Ah man, can you imagine?? This is the pure definition of a double edged sword.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2006, 09:32 AM
We will either have to see Reggie Bush twice a year or Vince Young twice a year. Pick ur poison.
........
I heard all the scenarios, let's just support houston no matter who they draft.


I guess some scenarios that could happen that would benefit Houston and screw TN would be:

We trade the first pick, preferably to the NFC...and get a ton of value.

New Orleans trades the second pick....and gets a bunch of value because there would be interest there.

Tennessee gets a sack of rocks valuewise.



Or, we take VY.

New Orleans trades the second pick because they have questions about Leinart and get a ton of value for Bush. (I do not want New Orleans to get VY because it might erode our fan base some because of proximity).

Tennessee gets a sack of rocks.


Reliant Stadium gets burnt down if we pick VY, he holds up the Texans jersey, and then trade him. :bomb:

Wolf
01-11-2006, 11:39 PM
too funny.. Texans are in a no win situation here.

only way I see it is if we take VY.. Carr gets traded.. (what happens to Ragone?)

We take Bush...the VY crowd will riot.

I personally hope someone offers the moon for our pick ..we trade down and hopefully gain about 4 or 5 solid picks for bolstering our lineup ( an OL,DT,TE, WR or maybe a CB/S)

Chaft
01-11-2006, 11:58 PM
If Norm Chow gets his guy Reggie Bush back into the gameplan, the Titans will be tough. He'll have Reggie Bush more involved in the passing game which is really how Reggie Bush should be utilized to maximize his production. Reggie Bush actually had more receptions in 2004 than he had in 2005.

""If I could sum it up in one word: complex," said Bush, the multi-threat running back. "It's all about putting people in position to create mismatches for the defense. It's very difficult for defenses to single out one person.""

http://sportsillustrated.cnn.com/2004/writers/stewart_mandel/12/31/orange.chow/

Double Barrel
01-12-2006, 11:23 AM
Of course, many would have liked to see him more involved in the game, but that’s nothing more than an indication of how inept Pete Carroll is as a head coach.

This article completely killed itself with this statement. It's written by a fool. Pete Carroll had his school competing for a third national title in a row, and now he's inept because of ONE game?

Cheese, and the rest of the article follows.

We'll face the Titans twice a year, and the better TEAM will prevail in each game. Vince Young won't single handedly beat any NFL team, even bad defenses. He'll need 10 other players around him pulling their weight. Let's save his Hall of Fame induction until he actually proves it in the NFL please.

dirty steve
01-12-2006, 11:46 AM
I guess some scenarios that could happen that would benefit Houston and screw TN would be:

Or, we take VY.

New Orleans trades the second pick because they have questions about Leinart and get a ton of value for Bush. (I do not want New Orleans to get VY because it might erode our fan base some because of proximity).

Tennessee gets a sack of rocks.


Reliant Stadium gets burnt down if we pick VY, he holds up the Texans jersey, and then trade him. :bomb:

You root for the team--not the player. NO can have those fans who jump ship if VY gets drafted by the Saints. like I said before, I would rather see empty fans at Reliant than those wearing a VY jersey of whichever team he goes to, unless it is Houston.

kytitan
01-12-2006, 01:44 PM
Glad you guys are picking first........who ever you pick half the fans will be PO
We get a good 3rd or trade down

Texans Horror
01-12-2006, 02:15 PM
How lugubrious. I prefer to believe that we will fare better than the Titans or Saints next year, and it will be in part due to our draft picks. The minute Reggie burns down the field and every defense goes "whoah, we better scheme towards a running game," and then Carr chunks the ball downfield to Dre for a TD, we are really going to like our pick.

Wolf
01-28-2006, 11:01 AM
I am now about 70/30 no trading down. 30 percent meaning no big offers for Bush so we draft him.. 70 percent in trading down and gaining some picks

like someone said on one of the threads..

Drafting VY = to giving away Carr and Bush.

:twocents:

Bobo
01-28-2006, 04:43 PM
And bottom line is this: Reggie Bush doesn't have one more down of NFL experience today than he did when he played against Fresno State. Bush is/was a great college talent -- nothing more, nothing less. DD is a good, strong running back who has proven himself on an extremely, extremely weak Texans team. He may be the Texans version of Steve Carlton. To even think of taking some unknown guy from college and have him play DD's position is ridiculous. Same can be said about VY and David Carr. If ever there was a clear decision on what to do with the #1 pick, it is a situation like this. Trade the pick, get help where you need it the most, and go with proven talent whenever possible.