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View Full Version : Bob McNair and this franchise are at a crossroads


Wordem
01-08-2006, 04:03 PM
If they pass on Young, who indicated in his press conference that he would love to come home, and if he has ANY kind of success in Nashville playing for the freaking Oilers, McNair will lose this city. I grew up in the Astrodome watching the Astros and Oilers. A gaffe like this will not be tolerated nor will it be forgiven. The honeymoon is long over. Bob McNair is not stupid. Vince Young will be a Texan or this team will be doomed in a very fickle sports town. We never forgave Bud for firing Bum and we never forgave McMullen for letting Nolan go.

If he misses with Young, he WILL be forgiven. If not, he will lose fans and money. It's just that simple.

ALIVE287
01-08-2006, 04:06 PM
here, here

bigcarlos
01-08-2006, 04:07 PM
We never forgave Bud for firing Bum .
LMAO...I thought I was the only one that holds that against him to this day:redtowel:

the wonger need food
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
They have to take VY, not really much of a choice here... he is a special talent.

They should be able to get a 3rd, maybe a 2nd rounder for Davie Franchise from a team that is desperate for a potentially average QB.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
Fans of professional sports in Houston have long memories.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
Only in Texas would a 20 year grudge still be ongoing over a Bud firing a Bum.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 04:10 PM
I agree, this franchise will be scarred for life if they pass on Vince, and he turns out to be great (especially if he goes to the Titans)...........I smell "a curse of Bambino" of some sort.

ALIVE287
01-08-2006, 04:11 PM
All I know is that we were 2-14...It can't get much worse. RB is our deepest position. Let's get rid of Carr and start over with the hometown hero and a new coach and GM.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 04:14 PM
Yes, Vince Young will be a Texan or else ... we will all be doomed?

Honestly, stop watching TV. Stop watching ESPN, stop reading Yahoo Sports and whatever other media source it is that is heaping gasoline on this ridiculous fire. It is making this board dumber by the minute. I mean, what the hell, I suppose lightning will strike, and this next hurricane will park itself over Reliant until every last brick is washed away?

Could you try any harder?

You just don't get it.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 04:16 PM
You just don't get it.

I guess you know more than the talent evaluators around the league.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 04:17 PM
LMAO...I thought I was the only one that holds that against him to this day:redtowel:

That's the biggest reason we told him to watch out for the door hitting his rear end on the way out. I'm so glad he left.

Mr. White
01-08-2006, 04:17 PM
...and ditching Earl and Warren Moon and moving the team....

The Dream
01-08-2006, 04:18 PM
All I know is that we were 2-14...It can't get much worse. RB is our deepest position. Let's get rid of Carr and start over with the hometown hero and a new coach and GM

EXACTLY..........honestly can Vince do any worst of a job than Carr???....people act like David is something special, when he's not.

Hookem Horns
01-08-2006, 04:19 PM
I guess you know more than the talent evaluators around the league.

No, the problem is Casserly doesn't.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 04:20 PM
If they pass on Young, who indicated in his press conference that he would love to come home, and if he has ANY kind of success in Nashville playing for the freaking Oilers, McNair will lose this city. I grew up in the Astrodome watching the Astros and Oilers. A gaffe like this will not be tolerated nor will it be forgiven. The honeymoon is long over. Bob McNair is not stupid. Vince Young will be a Texan or this team will be doomed in a very fickle sports town. We never forgave Bud for firing Bum and we never forgave McMullen for letting Nolan go.

If he misses with Young, he WILL be forgiven. If not, he will lose fans and money. It's just that simple.

It's a huge risk for him, because if Vince tears it up for the Titans and shows the Texans up in Reliant Stadium once a year, he will never live it down.

But I disagree that he's not the stupid. He is strangely devoted to his man David. I fully expect to see the Texans pass on Vince Young.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 04:21 PM
I guess you know more than the talent evaluators around the league.

It has nothing to do with that. It has everything to do with ticket sales and a fickle fan base. It's in McNair's economic interest to take Young, who I believe is the most talented player on the board. Go by the book. Take the best player available. That is Vince Young, the hometown hero? You think Olajuwon was popular?? You have no idea what VY will do to rally fans in Houston.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 04:22 PM
...and ditching Earl and Warren Moon and moving the team....

Yep. Warren Moon was my final straw, but Bud did plenty before that to nudge me.

dat_boy_yec
01-08-2006, 04:42 PM
If Young has really declared, then I would hope Reggie doesn't declare. Then it would be ok to pick VY or trade down to another team that wants VY. The one thing I could not tolerate would be the Titans having young. Also, all these scenarios depend on Bush and Young coming out, the draft order remainin unchanged and the Saints passing on Young. Nobody really knows what NO will do. I don't know I just hope these next few months go by in the blink of an eye.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 04:49 PM
If Young has really declared, then I would hope Reggie doesn't declare. Then it would be ok to pick VY or trade down to another team that wants VY. The one thing I could not tolerate would be the Titans having young. Also, all these scenarios depend on Bush and Young coming out, the draft order remainin unchanged and the Saints passing on Young. Nobody really knows what NO will do. I don't know I just hope these next few months go by in the blink of an eye.

Vince Young declared at 3:00 today. Which means Casserly can comment on him tonight at 10:35 pm on Channel 13, lol.

I would be thrilled if Reggie didn't declare, but I can't see that happening.

RTP2110
01-08-2006, 04:51 PM
It doesn't matter to me really who the Texans draft. we have the #1 pick, so whoever we get will help us. The thing is this, the Texans have to make the decision that is in the best interests of the franchise. Obviously winning is #1 on the priority list. The Texans have to draft the player that will help them win the most. In the case of Vince Young they cannot make a decision on him based on where he is from, or on what team might draft him if they pass on him. They have to draft the player who gives them the best chance at winning, everything else is irrelevant. Any decision they make will be second guessed, whether they draft Young, Bush, or trade the pick.

Wordem
01-08-2006, 04:54 PM
If you take Bush, you run the risk of VY succeeding in Nashville. That is unacceptable, especially when Vince has such an upside. No way he plays for Bud. No way.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 04:55 PM
What if we succeed?

Wordem
01-08-2006, 05:00 PM
They won't. Reggie Bush is not that type of player. He can't play every down.
Vince Young will touch the ball on every single play. He's the obvious choice.

chuckm
01-08-2006, 05:02 PM
I'm making plans for my bomb shelter just in case the city riots ...

Wordem
01-08-2006, 05:03 PM
I'm making plans for my bomb shelter just in case the city riots ...

Nah. Just plan on seeing more empty seats. Houstonians are the most fickle fans in all of sports behind Atlanta.

chuckm
01-08-2006, 05:04 PM
Nah. Just plan on seeing more empty seats. Houstonians are the most fickle fans in all of sports behind Atlanta.


not mine or my wife's seat .... plus it's easier to get to the bathroom .... feel free to stay home

Wordem
01-08-2006, 05:08 PM
not mine or my wife's seat .... plus it's easier to get to the bathroom .... feel free to stay home

You don't miss the pick of a generation. You just don't. You think the end of last season was bad. Just wait.

devo-x
01-08-2006, 05:11 PM
A question - Is Vince Young capable of leading this team through his first NFL season? Should the Texans try to draft more veteran leadership? :shrug:

chuckm
01-08-2006, 05:13 PM
You don't miss the pick of a generation. You just don't. You think the end of last season was bad. Just wait.

hang on I gotta go to the bathroom

BringItOn
01-08-2006, 05:14 PM
Yes, he is. He's such a leader he changed the mindset of a whole coaching staff. How many players do that?

Wordem
01-08-2006, 05:47 PM
You're right we shouldn't pass up the best player in the draft.... which is REGGIE BUSH and not Vince. You're obviously a UT fan and not a Texans fan and just want Vince to stay in Texas, but guess what we ain't gonna pick him. He going to the Titans and I couldn't care less.

Reggie Bush is not the better player. The NFL will bear that out. Trust me. Vince Young will change the game.

devo-x
01-08-2006, 05:58 PM
Texans have more than one QB on their team ....

Why would the Texans benefit from Reggie Bush over Vince Voung?

(I have not read through all the related threads on this issue yet :yahoo: )

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 06:09 PM
I guess you know more than the talent evaluators around the league.

Why even worry about the talent evaluators around the league (which are split). Let's ask Pete Carroll who the most dependable player on the bench was for USC's most important offensive play of the season? Bush was on the freaking bench for Pete's sake, and anyone wants to think that he is a franchise running back? When Mack Brown needed one play to win, who did he go to -- the guy who everyone in the world knew was going to score a touchdown no matter what.

VY is the greatest college quarterback to ever play football, if a pro coach can't design an offense of him, he is unworthy to coach at the professional level. Period.

Nighthawk
01-08-2006, 06:10 PM
I'm thinking that the Texans must consider Vince Young, in spite of their inexplicable devotion to David Carr. Young is too big to be overlooked. However, management has shown itself (with the Casserly hire, and the Capers hire, and the run of the team for the last 4 years) to be inherently conservative, corporate, inclined to take the safe road.

I'm afraid the safe road will be Bush, which means we will lose out on a once in a generation talent. Maybe McNair will surprise us, but think back over his decisions--he hasn't surprised us yet. Surprise isn't really part of his vocabulary. He never planned for Vince Young to land in his lap. Young was supposed to stay in school another year. Now he's announced and the ball is in McNair's court. Let's see how well he can think on his feet.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 06:12 PM
By the way Tulexan... roll wave roll!!! :redtowel:

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 06:13 PM
VY is the greatest college quarterback to ever play football, if a pro coach can't design an offense of him, he is unworthy to coach at the professional level. Period.

:thud:

BradK10
01-08-2006, 06:14 PM
it's not just a "Vince is better than David" thing

Some of yall don't realize how difficult is to move players in this league via trade. You talk like it's a dead giveaway that we can trade Carr for picks? You have aboslutely no idea the cap workings of NFL deals (nor do I).

This isn't Madden, you can't just trade guys for picks. There are other factors.

Besides, if Kubiak is the coach and brings his OL coaches, why waste a pick on a top RB? He already said he can work with Carr (which I believe, our inept coaches had more to do with our struggles of past) and your local sacker at HEB can rush for 1400 yds in the Broncos system.

WILLIEG
01-08-2006, 06:15 PM
We need to have the courage to dump the garbage like the Gm from the Rockets did concerning Steve Francis. I know that if Bush is taken that i will continue be be a loyal Texan fan but will be watching from the comfort of my chair at home like many of my friends that feel the same way.

Overalls
01-08-2006, 06:16 PM
If they pass on Young, who indicated in his press conference that he would love to come home, and if he has ANY kind of success in Nashville playing for the freaking Oilers, McNair will lose this city. I grew up in the Astrodome watching the Astros and Oilers. A gaffe like this will not be tolerated nor will it be forgiven. The honeymoon is long over. Bob McNair is not stupid. Vince Young will be a Texan or this team will be doomed in a very fickle sports town. We never forgave Bud for firing Bum and we never forgave McMullen for letting Nolan go.

If he misses with Young, he WILL be forgiven. If not, he will lose fans and money. It's just that simple.


You know what? I will support this team no matter what. Have I been happy with every move no, but you won't find me following you off the bandwagon just because we don't pick the flavor of the moment.

bradytom41
01-08-2006, 06:20 PM
trade carr to new orleans

we get first and second draft

young and bush

dat_boy_yec
01-08-2006, 06:24 PM
A question - Is Vince Young capable of leading this team through his first NFL season? Should the Texans try to draft more veteran leadership? :shrug:

You can't draft a veteran, but you can pick one up in free agency. Also look at Rothleisberger he did pretty good his rookie season, not that I would want to throw Young out there like that, I was just making a comparison.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 06:29 PM
Flavor of the moment? Where have you been the last three years.

Vince Young is as big as Peyton Manning is now -- 6'5", 230 and will get bigger.

As fast as Vick (both run in the 4.4/40 yd) range.

The highest rated quartback in D1 this year.

The first quarterback in NCAA history to pass for 3000yds and run for 1000 yds in HISTORY.

Is a true leader in that every player on the team looks up to him, trusts him, and would never ever want the ball in anyone elses hands to win the game.

HE IS THE GREATEST COLLEGE QUARTERBACK EVER (even Lee Corso agrees). Like I said before, if a coach can't design an offense for him than he is not worthy to be a professional coach.

This would be like passing up on Jordan.

I've never understood how people could be loyal to a player and not a team, BUT, my family had Oilers season tickets for 20 year and have had Texans season tickets since they began and I can easily say: wherever Vince goes, that's my team.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 06:31 PM
Big Ben did well because his team had a great offensive line, a great running game, great receivers, and a great defense. The Texans will have none of that so don't expect Vince to be as successful as Big Ben.

Napa Auto Parts
01-08-2006, 06:32 PM
One way to settle this is easy who would other teams want Vice Young Or David Carr who would they give up more for then you get the answer who we should get.:twocents:

tulexan
01-08-2006, 06:34 PM
Vince is not as fast as Michael Vick. Vick entered the league running a 4.28 and now runs a low 4.3. Vince runs in a 4.4 range and will slow down once he gets in the league.

And you are quoting Lee Corso? That is like quoting Dick Vitale. Both are cartoon characters who make their living being outrageous and over the top.

Coach C.
01-08-2006, 06:37 PM
Vick btw entered the league running in the 4.3s and Vince will not run in the 4.4s he is in the 4.5s or 4.6s.

Bongo59
01-08-2006, 06:38 PM
trade carr to new orleans

we get first and second draft

young and bushput down the crack pipe and go back to sleep............

abbest
01-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Why even worry about the talent evaluators around the league (which are split). Let's ask Pete Carroll who the most dependable player on the bench was for USC's most important offensive play of the season? Bush was on the freaking bench for Pete's sake, and anyone wants to think that he is a franchise running back? When Mack Brown needed one play to win, who did he go to -- the guy who everyone in the world knew was going to score a touchdown no matter what.

VY is the greatest college quarterback to ever play football, if a pro coach can't design an offense of him, he is unworthy to coach at the professional level. Period.Brother i found you>

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 06:42 PM
Vince is not as fast as Michael Vick. Vick entered the league running a 4.28 and now runs a low 4.3. Vince runs in a 4.4 range and will slow down once he gets in the league.

And you are quoting Lee Corso? That is like quoting Dick Vitale. Both are cartoon characters who make their living being outrageous and over the top.

Those Vick times are on and indoor track. His outside times were in the 4.4 range. Even if there is a .1 or .2 difference, he will at LEAST be the second fastest quarterback in the NFL and maybe the biggest: that is sick. And no, I was not quoting Corso, I have said that for a good while, I was just mentioning how someone who was a college coach (albeit not incredibly successful) and is knowledgeable enough for ESPN to think he is worthy to be on GameDay since 1987 at least agrees with me. And yes I was trying to get a laugh with dropping his name.

Bongo59
01-08-2006, 06:44 PM
sorry to pop your bubble but Vick dissappointed us with a 4.51 in his workouts before the draft................not the numbers you posted

abbest
01-08-2006, 06:48 PM
Vince is not as fast as Michael Vick. Vick entered the league running a 4.28 and now runs a low 4.3. Vince runs in a 4.4 range and will slow down once he gets in the league.

And you are quoting Lee Corso? That is like quoting Dick Vitale. Both are cartoon characters who make their living being outrageous and over the top.But they are Professional cartoon characters who are respected for their opinions. what are your credentials?

OzzO
01-08-2006, 06:51 PM
Unless there's a major smoke screen, I beleive Bob McN has noted Carr is the QB of the future, they're discussing his contract extension, Kubiak (if he comes here) likes Carr and feels he can improve him and the team, and all the heads are noting Bush will be the "safer" pick for the Texans - whatever safer is.

So, if Young heads to Tennesee (which I would think NO would take him first... but who knows) then all "fickle fans" may don their Titan gear and exit the stage to the East. If the smoke screen clears and we have him - then I'll still be supporting the Texans among the fickle fans that follow the savior of the generation.

AustinJB
01-08-2006, 06:51 PM
Flavor of the moment? Where have you been the last three years.

Vince Young is as big as Peyton Manning is now -- 6'5", 230 and will get bigger.

As fast as Vick (both run in the 4.4/40 yd) range.

The highest rated quartback in D1 this year.

The first quarterback in NCAA history to pass for 3000yds and run for 1000 yds in HISTORY.

Is a true leader in that every player on the team looks up to him, trusts him, and would never ever want the ball in anyone elses hands to win the game.

HE IS THE GREATEST COLLEGE QUARTERBACK EVER (even Lee Corso agrees). Like I said before, if a coach can't design an offense for him than he is not worthy to be a professional coach.

This would be like passing up on Jordan.

I've never understood how people could be loyal to a player and not a team, BUT, my family had Oilers season tickets for 20 year and have had Texans season tickets since they began and I can easily say: wherever Vince goes, that's my team.

I actually agree with most of your points and am a huge VY fan. But the Rockets actually did pass on Jordan to draft Olajuwon.

AustinJB
01-08-2006, 06:54 PM
Unless there's a major smoke screen, I beleive Bob McN has noted Carr is the QB of the future, they're discussing his contract extension, Kubiak (if he comes here) likes Carr and feels he can improve him and the team, and all the heads are noting Bush will be the "safer" pick for the Texans - whatever safer is.

So, if Young heads to Tennesee (which I would think NO would take him first... but who knows) then all "fickle fans" may don their Titan gear and exit the stage to the East. If the smoke screen clears and we have him - then I'll still be supporting the Texans among the fickle fans that follow the savior of the generation.

I'll still be a Texans fan too...but a lot less forgiving when VY beats our Texans twice a year in a Titans uniform. But as true Houston football fans know, I guess bad decisions and heartbreak are just a way of life.

Nawzer
01-08-2006, 06:57 PM
Even though I'm a huge VY fan ever since his days at Madison I think the Texans will pick Reggie Bush. I just have this feeling like they want to give Carr a decent shot at becoming a good NFL QB. I would like to see VY in a Texans uniform but I will be happy with Bush too.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 07:02 PM
Those Vick times are on and indoor track. His outside times were in the 4.4 range. Even if there is a .1 or .2 difference, he will at LEAST be the second fastest quarterback in the NFL and maybe the biggest:

What do you mean by the biggest? There are several quarterbacks who are bigger than Vince Young. Some who are mobile too.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 07:24 PM
What do you mean by the biggest? There are several quarterbacks who are bigger than Vince Young. Some who are mobile too.

None as mobile as VY.
Bigger? I said maybe. Can you think of any bigger? Big Ben is 6'5"/240, Brady is only 6'4"/220, Brad Johnson is 6'5"/215; and no, I'm not comparing VY to Brady.

Just a reminder: Bush is just a utility back, not even close to being one of the greatest college running backs ever. VY is the best college quarterback to ever play.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 07:30 PM
I actually agree with most of your points and am a huge VY fan. But the Rockets actually did pass on Jordan to draft Olajuwon.

I remember well. As a life long Rockets fan and huge Hakeem fan ( I crazily think he and Kareem are the best centers to ever play - maybe Shaq if he gets better) I am about to write this, duck, cringe, run and hide: Jordan 6 rings, Olajuwon 2. I would have taken Jordan any day. Sorry, Hakeem, I love you, thanks for the 2 trophies for Houston, but there is no comparison.

pskinny
01-08-2006, 07:35 PM
VY is the best college quarterback to ever play.

God, It's killing me to be a Texan fan right now. Why do you think Aggies call you guys T-sippers? It's this whole "take Vince Young or we will never forgive you, Bob" arrogance some of you guys have. He is NOT the messiah people. He can't cure disease, or make your grandmom walk again. In fact he wasn't even cosidered a better prospect than Bush or Lienert before the rose bowl.

How about you hire your new coaching staff, let them review hours of film, and decide what is best for this football team, Bob. Unfortunately for UT fans, I don't think you'll like the descision.

dat_boy_yec
01-08-2006, 07:44 PM
I remember well. As a life long Rockets fan and huge Hakeem fan ( I crazily think he and Kareem are the best centers to ever play - maybe Shaq if he gets better) I am about to write this, duck, cringe, run and hide: Jordan 6 rings, Olajuwon 2. I would have taken Jordan any day. Sorry, Hakeem, I love you, thanks for the 2 trophies for Houston, but there is no comparison.

Traitor, I can't believe the words that you typed!:bomb: J/K. You can't really base all that on rings. Look at the teams surrounding Jordan when he got the rings, even when he played baseball the Bulls reached the playoffs. That speaks volumes of Jordan how would he have fared without the triangle offense, without Pippen, Kukoc, etc. etc. Hakeem did great things in Houston and imagine if Drexler had been teamed up with the Dream from the get go, or if the talent or coaching would have been different. Jordan's skills overshadowed the rest of the team, but they were a byproduct of the system he was in. Had he been on any other team he would have still been good, but not Jordanesque. I would stay with Hakeem because he was still a great player, and there's no guarantee that if Jordan was here the Rockets would have won 6. What do you mean crazily think Hakeem and Kareem are the best centers. They are the best centers.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 07:49 PM
God, It's killing me to be a Texan fan right now. Why do you think Aggies call you guys T-sippers? It's this whole "take Vince Young or we will never forgive you, Bob" arrogance some of you guys have. He is NOT the messiah people. He can't cure disease, or make your grandmom walk again. In fact he wasn't even cosidered a better prospect than Bush or Lienert before the rose bowl.

How about you hire your new coaching staff, let them review hours of film, and decide what is best for this football team, Bob. Unfortunately for UT fans, I don't think you'll like the descision.

Who in the world would even care what an Aggie thinks about a a Longhorn. For the record I went to Tulane. Messiah? Curing disease? Man, you are melodramatic; dude, it's football.

And he was considered a better prospect than Bush and Lienert by some people before the Rose Bowl - people who had actually seen him play enough to know that this guy is a once in a lifetime like Jordan was. When he was a Freshman a lot of people said he couldn't win a national championship. He proved them wrong this year and he will prove the nay sayers wrong again. HE IS A MONSTER PLAYING AMONG BOYS.

groutfulone
01-08-2006, 07:53 PM
Traitor, I can't believe the words that you typed!
That's why I ducked and ran. It felt slimy saying it but I believe it. And yes I can compare rings because Jordan would have won them with any one. He made people around him better. Truly. That is why many people think he is the greatest basketball player ever. That is why the Texas players on O and D say the same thing about Young. They all say how VY makes them better players. And I am confident he can do the same thing in the NFL.

Nighthawk
01-08-2006, 08:03 PM
I just have this feeling like they want to give Carr a decent shot at becoming a good NFL QB.

This is the kind of thinking, if it's accurate, that will mire this team in mediocrity forever. They want to "give David a shot"--oh, please.

If they have half a brain between the 4 of them (McNair, Casserly, new head coach, and Reeves) they'll start negotiating with Vince Young on Monday.

Failure to do so will be the biggest disappointment in Houston football history.