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View Full Version : Casserly on Inside the Game Tonight at 10:35pm


Tulip
01-08-2006, 03:52 PM
Channel 13
10:35 pm

This will probably be Charley's first interview since one of the top 2 juniors has declared.

I'm interested to see how the Texans are going to frame the whole Vince Young thing.

bigcarlos
01-08-2006, 03:54 PM
keep me posted

sprtsfanatic
01-08-2006, 06:41 PM
def a post that needs to reappear on the first page later on tonight.

Will be very interesting to see how well he holds his hand or does his poker face suck so bad that it will be obvious to the entire league what our intention is come draft day

Marcus
01-08-2006, 06:55 PM
Just keep in mind, the 1st pick will not be Casserly's decision.

IT WILL BE McNAIR'S.

And I'd bet anyone 50 bucks that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

Nawzer
01-08-2006, 06:56 PM
Casserly will probably dodge those VY and Reggie Bush questions and give us generic answers...But I'll tune in anyway.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 06:58 PM
Please someone post tonight. Inquiring minds in Central Texas would like to know. We are out on the frontier fighting Cowboy fans and can't always get the games on TV.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:16 PM
Just keep in mind, the 1st pick will not be Casserly's decision.

IT WILL BE McNAIR'S.

And I'd bet anyone 50 bucks that he hasn't made up his mind yet.

One would hope, given that the combines and pro days haven't happened yet.

Fiddy
01-08-2006, 07:18 PM
This will probably be Charley's first interview since one of the top 2 juniors has declared. I dont think Bush has declared...

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:20 PM
I dont think Bush has declared...

He hasn't. That's why I said "one" of the top two juniors. Before, he couldn't talk about either of them. Now he can at least talk about Vince.

Fiddy
01-08-2006, 07:22 PM
He hasn't. That's why I said "one" of the top two juniors. Before, he couldn't talk about either of them. Now he can at least talk about Vince. Oh, my bad...read it wrong, sorry. :bag:

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:28 PM
Oh, my bad...read it wrong, sorry. :bag:

No problem.

Are you watching tonight? I've set it on Tivo to make sure I can rewind and analyze. I apparently have nothing better to do with my life.

Fiddy
01-08-2006, 07:30 PM
No problem.

Are you watching tonight? I've set it on Tivo to make sure I can rewind and analyze. I apparently have nothing better to do with my life. Of course I'm watching and I'm waiting to hear Casserly distance the Texans from Young completely so I can cry myself to sleep... :brickwall

Should be intresting...

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:32 PM
Of course I'm watching and I'm waiting to hear Casserly distance the Texans from Young completely so I can cry myself to sleep... :brickwall

Should be intresting...

:bomb: :crying: :brickwall

Texandiver
01-08-2006, 07:34 PM
Hi guys, I've been following the boards off and on throughout the season, and finally decided to join the discusson.

As far as Casserly being able to discuss Vince Young tonight it can't be done. According to Tim Melton on the 5:30 news the Texans can not comment about Young entering draft until they recieve an offical notice from the NFL that he has declared. Bummer if you ask me.

Fiddy
01-08-2006, 07:35 PM
Hi guys, I've been following the boards off and on throughout the season, and finally decided to join the discusson.

As far as Casserly being able to discuss Vince Young tonight it can't be done. According to Tim Melton on the 5:30 news the Texans can not comment about Young entering draft until they recieve an offical notice from the NFL that he has declared. Bummer if you ask me. Hm, that's right...Casserly lucks out again. The guy has nine lives and is on life eight...

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:38 PM
Hi guys, I've been following the boards off and on throughout the season, and finally decided to join the discusson.

As far as Casserly being able to discuss Vince Young tonight it can't be done. According to Tim Melton on the 5:30 news the Texans can not comment about Young entering draft until they recieve an offical notice from the NFL that he has declared. Bummer if you ask me.

Oh drat!

Welcome to the board.

Texandiver
01-08-2006, 07:38 PM
I bet Bob still asks the various Young questions even though he knows Casserly can not answer.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:41 PM
I bet Bob still asks the various Young questions even though he knows Casserly can not answer.

True. Maybe we'll get something out of his facial expressions.

And when on earth is Reggie going to declare? I don't know what he's waiting for. He made his decision a long time ago.

Texandiver
01-08-2006, 07:56 PM
True. Maybe we'll get something out of his facial expressions.

And when on earth is Reggie going to declare? I don't know what he's waiting for. He made his decision a long time ago.

Maybe he's having second thought's. :)

Tulip
01-08-2006, 07:58 PM
Maybe he's having second thought's. :)

Your teasing is so cruel, lol.

GP
01-08-2006, 07:58 PM
I guess this is where Casserly goes ahead and tells the NFL world who we'll pick with ALL of our draft positions.

VY declared for draft today, so there definitley WILL be questions in store for Uncle Casserly tonight.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 08:04 PM
Well, he still can't talk about Reggie, so maybe he'll try to keep an air of mystery.

I can't even keep a straight face saying that.

Texandiver
01-08-2006, 08:07 PM
Can you imagine the outcry if Bush stay's in school, and the Texans don't draft Young?

GP
01-08-2006, 08:21 PM
Tulip, you know that I don't particularly want VY at No. 1. I think you've seen my heated arguments on that.

HOWEVER, I have a very gut feeling that we've just witnessed VY and Bob McNair reaching a deal.

This is just a theory, but I base it on the entire air of mystery that has surrounded VY since they won the championship. I think he's been feeling out the Texans and sending signals, and I think those signals have been sent back to VY. Below is my theory...and I think Casserly is behind it all:

PET THEORY:

I think VY was told by Texans official that we'd take him: "We'll sign Carr, we'll trade Carr, and we'll draft you No. 1 on draft day..."

To me, VY did not declare immediately after the game because it took time for the process to get sorted out amongst Bob McNair and other high-ups.

That's why you had a leaked story in ESPN.com about Texans drafting "Bush no matter what" since we (wink-wink) will pick up Carr's option.

When you think about it, Casserly and the Texans DIDN'T ACTUALLY LIE when they said they would not be taking Leinart because (wink-wink) "we don't have a need for a QB." Everyone assumed that comment meant that Carr was the guy, but with the sensitivity of the NFL and NCAA toward luring comments...it looks like Casserly very selectively beat around the bush (pardon the pun) enough to do all sorts of things with that comment: (1) Didn't get in trouble with NFL/NCAA because the comment wasn't trying to lure VY into declaring; (2) Made Carr feel safe so he WOULD re-sign and think everything was fine rather than walking out and leaving us empty handed ; and (3) Landing us a trade (picks and/or players) for Carr.

So now we get VY AND players and/or more picks for Carr.

I just do not see VY coming out for the draft for anything less than being drafted numero uno. Do you?

Remember that this guy (Casserly) is a daring GM. He might not look good on camera, but I wouldn't put it past him to have orchestrated something as bizarre as what I just theorized.

bayshorebevo
01-08-2006, 09:53 PM
the guy on espn the other morning said that the texans were taking bush because charlie c. told him that they were renewing david's contract and that was just him (the espn guy) reading between the lines. that was a real bogus so-called scoop. charlie is not going to comment on juniors because he's a pro.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 09:57 PM
Tulip, you know that I don't particularly want VY at No. 1. I think you've seen my heated arguments on that.

HOWEVER, I have a very gut feeling that we've just witnessed VY and Bob McNair reaching a deal.

This is just a theory, but I base it on the entire air of mystery that has surrounded VY since they won the championship. I think he's been feeling out the Texans and sending signals, and I think those signals have been sent back to VY. Below is my theory...and I think Casserly is behind it all:

PET THEORY:

I think VY was told by Texans official that we'd take him: "We'll sign Carr, we'll trade Carr, and we'll draft you No. 1 on draft day..."

To me, VY did not declare immediately after the game because it took time for the process to get sorted out amongst Bob McNair and other high-ups.

That's why you had a leaked story in ESPN.com about Texans drafting "Bush no matter what" since we (wink-wink) will pick up Carr's option.

When you think about it, Casserly and the Texans DIDN'T ACTUALLY LIE when they said they would not be taking Leinart because (wink-wink) "we don't have a need for a QB." Everyone assumed that comment meant that Carr was the guy, but with the sensitivity of the NFL and NCAA toward luring comments...it looks like Casserly very selectively beat around the bush (pardon the pun) enough to do all sorts of things with that comment: (1) Didn't get in trouble with NFL/NCAA because the comment wasn't trying to lure VY into declaring; (2) Made Carr feel safe so he WOULD re-sign and think everything was fine rather than walking out and leaving us empty handed ; and (3) Landing us a trade (picks and/or players) for Carr.

So now we get VY AND players and/or more picks for Carr.

I just do not see VY coming out for the draft for anything less than being drafted numero uno. Do you?

Remember that this guy (Casserly) is a daring GM. He might not look good on camera, but I wouldn't put it past him to have orchestrated something as bizarre as what I just theorized.

I wish. :(

But if you're right, that would be wild-crazy.

mexican_texan
01-08-2006, 10:08 PM
well, has Bush earned his degree yet? maybe he wants to learn ballroom dancing. If he comes out now, he could run the risk of going third overall. If he waits and has another stellar year, can't win the heisman if he plays better, he could come back and be the consensus first overall pick all season next season.:pigfly:

BREAZE
01-08-2006, 10:10 PM
Casserly can't say anything until the official list comes out after 1/15 I believe.

However, he CAN say who he is not going to take. In fact he said on this very show that he would not be taking a QB or Matt Leinhart. Of course this was all before this week. If Bob Allen is smart he fires him with the same question.

Make him squrm Bobby!!

bckey
01-08-2006, 10:18 PM
Made Carr feel safe so he WOULD re-sign and think everything was fine rather than walking out and leaving us empty handed ; and (3) Landing us a trade (picks and/or players) for Carr.


Carr can't walk out and leave us empty handed unless the Texans let him. The Texans hold the cards as to whether they exercise a 2 or 3 year option on Carr or just let him go. But it is in the Texans hands not Carrs.

cuppacoffee
01-08-2006, 10:19 PM
well, has Bush earned his degree yet? maybe he wants to learn ballroom dancing. If he comes out now, he could run the risk of going third overall. If he waits and has another stellar year, can't win the heisman if he plays better, he could come back and be the consensus first overall pick all season next season.:pigfly:

Not a chance.

Brady Quinn will win the Heisman next year and be the overall #1...:yahoo:

T-sippers have nothing on domers when it comes to elevating our own.:ok:

:coffee:

awtysst
01-08-2006, 10:37 PM
Someone please do post on this. All of the Texans fans in Chicago(me) are very interested.

Texandiver
01-08-2006, 11:15 PM
I just hope they didn't tape the show before the announcement.

Sportsfan
01-09-2006, 09:11 AM
I just hope they didn't tape the show before the announcement.

They did.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 09:15 AM
Someone please do post on this. All of the Texans fans in Chicago(me) are very interested.Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

Elise Lanier just called the 610am show and was incredibly upset at Casserly's comments from last night saying we were not going to bring in a QB period. I hope Bob Lanier knows that Casserly is turning off the football fan here in Houston. I hope he really grasps how much we hate this guy and how much this is hurting his franchise (even with stupid comments like the one last night) since the only history this franchise has is the one they are creating right now.

Texans_Chick
01-09-2006, 09:20 AM
Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

Elise Lanier just called the 610am show and was incredibly upset at Casserly's comments from last night saying we were not going to bring in a QB period. I hope Bob Lanier knows that Casserly is turning off the football fan here in Houston. I hope he really grasps how much we hate this guy and how much this is hurting his franchise (even with stupid comments like the one last night) since the only history this franchise has is the one they are creating right now.

Taped show taped show taped show??? Please?

What else did he say in the show? I missed it.

FILO_girl
01-09-2006, 09:34 AM
I just hope they didn't tape the show before the announcement.

They did. Cass declared that we ARE keeping Carr, was very adament about it. I know I missed some of the key points and commentary because I was yelling at the TV every time they showed him. Whoever said he isn't camera friendly...:D ! He was asked about the "other players" besides Bush who we may want to get and no one would speak VY in particular (but they showed him playing in the background!) and Cass said a bit indignantly that we have two, three or four "other players" to look at. He addressed our options and talked some about trading down our pick for one impact player and a couple good players. Non commital on any idea.

Bob's interview came across as very warm and friendly, caring of the fans and the organization. If you didn't know or like him before, you do now. He also stated that Reeves is ONLY a consultant and that Cass is still in charge. :eek:

Casserly came across to me as smug and arrogant. After creating a 2-14 mess and having BigBrother Reeves over your shoulder, not sure how he expected to carry that one off.

I still wish that Bob had given him his walking papers. I know there are several fans besides me who are apprehensive on him picking our next roster after what he has done for us thus far.

ArlingtonTexan
01-09-2006, 09:37 AM
Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

Elise Lanier just called the 610am show and was incredibly upset at Casserly's comments from last night saying we were not going to bring in a QB period. I hope Bob Lanier knows that Casserly is turning off the football fan here in Houston. I hope he really grasps how much we hate this guy and how much this is hurting his franchise (even with stupid comments like the one last night) since the only history this franchise has is the one they are creating right now.

Sometimes I amazed by message boards. there are 35 replies on thread about Casserly on the show and only one (thank you Vinny) on what was actually said. We out-of-towners do actually want to hear what being said.

Edit: was typing at the same time Filo-girl was posting so thank you also.

WWJD
01-09-2006, 09:39 AM
Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

Elise Lanier just called the 610am show and was incredibly upset at Casserly's comments from last night saying we were not going to bring in a QB period. I hope Bob Lanier knows that Casserly is turning off the football fan here in Houston. I hope he really grasps how much we hate this guy and how much this is hurting his franchise (even with stupid comments like the one last night) since the only history this franchise has is the one they are creating right now.


I'm wondering why it matters what Bob Lanier thinks? Is he a minority owner?

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 09:41 AM
I'm wondering why it matters what Bob Lanier thinks? Is he a minority owner?

This is funny because I just wrote about this in another post. She was great:


I know people aren't huge McLain fans all the time but I'm just reporting what was said this morning as I drove into work on 610. 1) Kubiak is the man and he is heading there for 6 days to do pieces on him and his assistants. All of the other interviews are formalities. He interviewed well and even brought broke down tape. 2) ESPN has been wrong twice. Mort was wrong saying we are trying to buy out Jeff Fischer and Pasquerelli is wrong that we are trying to trade players for another pick. 3) In his opinion we will take VY because they will burn down the stadium if he isn't taken. His take is this. Kubiak is great with QBs. We pull a Carson Palmer and keep Carr for a year. If Carr does well, his trade value will be at its highest and we can get a pick for him. Then you play Young. It is too big of a cap hit if you just get rid of Carr. Lance argues that it makes no sense because you have noone to show for the draft by sitting him but McClain said it is the smart move. He said come draft time Young will be scouted more and will be the pick because many scouts didn't think he would come out until that game. 4) The funniest thing ..and then I got to work..Alyse(sp?) Lanier--ex-mayors wife..called in and said she would buy season tickets again if VY was picked. She said she was watching the Casserly thing last night and couldn't believe her ears when Casserly said they have a QB and would not be looking at QBs. She acted like Casserly was a moron for even speaking. ....does anyone like that guy?He is pretty much an moron. At least he didn't say anything about Bush since he hasn't declared yet.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 09:47 AM
I'm wondering why it matters what Bob Lanier thinks? Is he a minority owner?Just sharing news...and it's just another way for me to show that people are put off by Casserly. Casserly is the face of this franchise and he is angering the fans. I think Bob McNair should know this....no way this can be good.

playoff year please
01-09-2006, 09:49 AM
Was the show taped prior to the announcement or not?

Vinny
01-09-2006, 09:50 AM
I don't know if they taped it before or after 3pm yesterday, but I think they mentioned that Young declared (didnt tape it). Most of the time this show is live...but this was the first off-season verision yesterday so there was no after game situation.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 09:56 AM
Casserly said with a stern straight face they intend to exercise Carr's option.

Its not so much what he said that is rubbing me the wrong way, but how he said it. We are never going to win a ring with a GM who is too busy tripping over his own ego. My fear has always been that Carr is Casserly's pick and he's sticking with him no matter what. By bringing in another QB he would be admitting he made the wrong move which is why he should have been given his papers with Capers.

Things to keep in mind regarding last night's interview.

1. it was taped after VY declared.

2. CC never said he would not take VY.

3. CC said what they "intend" to do with Carr. VY "intended" to go back to school before the Rose Bowl.

4. The new coaching regime will have large input on who they draft.

5. Bush has not declared...although we all know he will...I think.

6. There is a lot of time between now and April 29th. What CC is saying now may change after 4 months of fan pressure.

7. they have not evaluated VY yet...nobody has.

The local ABC affiliate that carried the show did a poll and 79% of fans want the Texans to draft VY...12% want Reggie...6% want to trade down...remainder undecided. I was a little taken back by the smalll margin who say trade down and the huge margin for VY. I guess we will find out if the fans really do have a voice when all is said and done...

Marcus
01-09-2006, 09:56 AM
Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

I don't know, Vinny. Not to pick nits . . . but I TIVO'd that thing, and just listened to it again, I frankly couldn't understand what Casserly said when Bob Allen specifically asked about the 3-year option.

And Casserly definately said this.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

The "If David Carr is here" has me intrigued, but I admit it might be wishful thinking.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 09:57 AM
I don't know, Vinny. Not to pick nits . . . but I TIVO'd that thing, and just listened to it again, I frankly couldn't understand what Casserly said when Bob Allen specifically asked about the 3-year option.

And Casserly definately said this.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

The "If David Carr is here" has me intrigued, but I admit it might be wishful thinking.What about that isn't 'point-blank, matter-of-fact' saying we would not be taking a QB?

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 09:58 AM
Casserly said point-blank, matter-of-fact (in his weekly Sunday night show with Bob Allen) that he would not select a QB in the draft since we are picking up Carr's deal.

Elise Lanier just called the 610am show and was incredibly upset at Casserly's comments from last night saying we were not going to bring in a QB period. I hope Bob Lanier knows that Casserly is turning off the football fan here in Houston. I hope he really grasps how much we hate this guy and how much this is hurting his franchise (even with stupid comments like the one last night) since the only history this franchise has is the one they are creating right now.

I don't have a problem with him or what he's done. The fans hated Ladd too but the team he drafted won a lot of games and the people loved that. The football fans are rarely the guys you want to go to for insightful decisions on player personnel. You know that Vinny.

People can say it wasn't just "one game" all they want but where was this outpouring of demand for Vince Young prior to that one game? It didn't exist. It literally did not exist so regardless of what anybody says this is about the Rose Bowl and what Vince Young showed there. Sure there were a handful of people who were dreaming of getting him but their posts and reasonings were, for the most part irrational UT fan rambles which mirrored the "Reggie Bush WILL RULE!" crowd.

It's about one game and if taking Reggie Bush was a risky and unnecessary pick before that game then taking Vince Young is twice that now. Elise Lanier is a nice lady. I just don't think the Texans pick VY (or send Casserly packing) because she's upset over his statement. We don't need a QB. We need to see what Gary Kubiak (if that holds true) can do with the one we have on our roster right now.

FILO_girl
01-09-2006, 10:01 AM
I don't know, Vinny. Not to pick nits . . . but I TIVO'd that thing, and just listened to it again, I frankly couldn't understand what Casserly said when Bob Allen specifically asked about the 3-year option.

And Casserly definately said this.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

The "If David Carr is here" has me intrigued, but I admit it might be wishful thinking.

I heard "we do plan to excercise the option on David Carr". Fancy speak for "David ain't going nowhere". :)

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 10:03 AM
Elise Lanier is a nice lady. I just don't think the Texans pick VY (or send Casserly packing) because she's upset over his statement. We don't need a QB. We need to see what Gary Kubiak (if that holds true) can do with the one we have on our roster right now.

I think she is just showing a frustration that has built in many people about Charlie. I just think he is underqualified to do anything and I really wish he would just hide behind the scenes and shut his pie-hole.

Herv, I said it the other day but I love the avatar. Have to love the Chronic "les" of Narnia rap.

Marcus
01-09-2006, 10:07 AM
What about that isn't 'point-blank, matter-of-fact' saying we would not be taking a QB?

Well, I'm taking the the "If David Carr is here" in the context that they would if they traded Carr before the draft.

I dunno. Charley's good with word games.

TheOgre
01-09-2006, 10:08 AM
I think it is stupid to reveal your hand and lose leverage this early. If you plan on taking Bush, don't let the entire world know. Even if we re-sign Carr, we could even trade him on draft day.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:09 AM
I don't have a problem with him or what he's done. The fans hated Ladd too but the team he drafted won a lot of games and the people loved that. The football fans are rarely the guys you want to go to for insightful decisions on player personnel. You know that Vinny.I grew up with the Oilers as a child...This franchise doesn't get my childhood love. They have to earn my adult adulation. It's hard to get with a smug GM who has failed this franchise for 4 years with his poor scouting from FA to the draft. I know you don't think Casserly has done a poor job but I think you are way off on that one.
People can say it wasn't just "one game" all they want but where was this outpouring of demand for Vince Young prior to that one game? It didn't exist. Much like me, they all bought into the fact that Young wasn't coming out. Everyone knows that Young is the first big time underclassman player in the new Horns era to bolt for the NFL. It's a new dynamic, and he is a future NFL superstar. Heck I've been talking Young up for a year. I don't have time to search but here's a thread where I'm talking about Young way before he delcared for the draft...

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=55633&highlight=superstar+young#post55633

Running backs are a dime a dozen. More pop up every year and we can always get a great back if we need one. Heck, nobody wanted Shaun Alexander for a 2nd round pick last year. Nobody wanted Edge James...why? Backs are a dime a dozen no matter how great they are. Quarterbacks? Totally different story since all 32 teams don't even have a quality starter (much less franchise quality starter) and they are incredibly hard to find.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:10 AM
Well, I'm taking the the "If David Carr is here" in the context that they would if they traded Carr before the draft.

I dunno. Charley's good with word games.He said we would not take a QB in the draft. Who do you have playing QB if we trade Carr after we don't pick Young...I think you have your sequence out of kilter here. The only word game is the one you are playing on yourself.

playoff year please
01-09-2006, 10:12 AM
Is it possible that CC is saying this stuff to keep people from claiming the Texans and Young spoke to each other and broke some rules of the draft, or whatever rules are out there?

tulexan
01-09-2006, 10:13 AM
You also have Bob McNair say that they are going to draft someone who is going to make an immediate impact to the team.

GP
01-09-2006, 10:15 AM
That's the same language VY used: "I'm PLANNING on returning for a senior year..."

Throw in the "if," and you've got what we call WIGGLE ROOM.

At best, I think Carr is 50% "on the fence" in terms of ebing here or not when draft day rolls around.

All this talk about Reeves and other evaluators saying that Carr has the tools and the talent, and the big push to make it known that we are picking up his option and that "he's our guy," is (in my opinion) an attempt to drive up his trade value.

In the same fashion, the "we're taking Bush no matter what" is an ESPN.com report that cites no source (anonymous source....yeah, right) and is again a purposefully leaked bit of gossip to ALSO drive up Reggie Bush's draft stock so we can maximize his value on draft day.

Again, I'm thinking the Texans are playing this pretty cool: They are driving up Carr's intrigue among teams that have miserable QB situations, and they are also driving up Reggie Bush's value at the same time. To me, they are working all the angles and seeing what comes of it.

Marcus
01-09-2006, 10:15 AM
I don't have the sequence out of kilter. I said, trade Carr before the draft. If they trade Carr before the draft, then they can draft Vince Young.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:16 AM
I don't have the sequence out of kilter. I said, trade Carr before the draft. If they trade Carr before the draft, then they can draft Vince Young.I know YOU said this but you are commenting on Casserly's comments. Casserly said we would not take a qb in the draft. If we dont take a QB how the heck are you going to trade Carr and start Banks?

texan279
01-09-2006, 10:17 AM
I don't have the sequence out of kilter. I said, trade Carr before the draft. If they trade Carr before the draft, then they can draft Vince Young.

Thought we had to either sign him to the extension or he becomes a UFA? Why would we sign him to trade him?

HJam72
01-09-2006, 10:18 AM
Draft day:

Top 3 picks chosen in the following order:

1) Bush
2) Leinart
3) Young

The most repeated post on this message board will be the following:

Did the Texans just draft Bush to fool everyone because they're really going to trade Bush for Young before training camp? Did they? Did they? :)

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 10:20 AM
You also have Bob McNair say that they are going to draft someone who is going to make an immediate impact to the team.

Yep. heard that too which favors Bush. I wish the interviews where taped later in the week because I got a since all these talks were the day after the Rose Bowl. 4/29 is a long ways away...

GP
01-09-2006, 10:20 AM
"Is it possible that CC is saying this stuff to keep people from claiming the Texans and Young spoke to each other and broke some rules of the draft, or whatever rules are out there?" -- playoff year please

That's part of it.

IMO, the other part of it is to keep everything cool for the next month or two...giving time to see what comes out of their fishing trip: They are driving up Reggie's stock by saying "we're taking him even if VY comes out..." and they are at the same time driving up Carr's trade value with teams that have miserable QB situations (Oakland, Miami, Jets).

Just like fishing: Pitch it out into the water, reel it back, and see what you get.

I don't buy into the idea that we're announcing Bush as our pick a few days after our season ended.

texan279
01-09-2006, 10:21 AM
Draft day:

Top 3 picks chosen in the following order:

1) Bush
2) Leinart
3) Young

The most repeated post on this message board will be the following:

Did the Texans just draft Bush to fool everyone because they're really going to trade Bush for Young before training camp? Did they? Did they? :)

lol: Man I don't know if I can handle the Young madness for the next 3 months, I was already tired of the Bush talk for the last few weeks. Kiper on Cold Pizza just said we should take Bush at #1 because we are "comitted to David Carr". And Kiper has Young going AFTER Leinhart...Interesting...

Marcus
01-09-2006, 10:27 AM
I know YOU said this but you are commenting on Casserly's comments. Casserly said we would not take a qb in the draft. If we dont take a QB how the heck are you going to trade Carr and start Banks?

I'll repeat verbatum what Charley said.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

Or, in other words, "we won't be taking a quarterback if David Carr is here."

playoff year please
01-09-2006, 10:28 AM
If the Texans and Young talked, what could happen? I believe that Young is only coming out, because he wants to play in Houston.

About this Bush or Young issue...I do not like that the announcers were saying Bush couldn't have a great game because Texas focused on him and that he had not faced a deffense as fast and big as Texas. The worst NFL deffenses are as fast and big as Texas.

Young has been a winner and leader since high school. I have been watching, he will be big in the NFL.

I am really a Carr fan, but Young will be better, plus unfortunately Carr as possibly gotten used to losing, and that might take longer to get rid of than Young being new to the NFL.

FILO_girl
01-09-2006, 10:30 AM
I'll repeat verbatum what Charley said.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

Or, in other words, "we won't be taking a quarterback if David Carr is here."

Was this off the TiVo?

Marcus
01-09-2006, 10:33 AM
Was this off the TiVo?

Yes! Word for word.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:34 AM
I'll repeat verbatum what Charley said.

"If David Carr is here, we won't be taking a quarterback. Our intent is to have David Carr here, exercise the option, and that's our plan."

Or, in other words, "we won't be taking a quarterback if David Carr is here."This makes your point even worse...not better. Exercising the option will give us a massive cap hit. F-tagging Carr won't give you a drop of cap hit repercussion, so if you want to trade Carr you don't pick up the option at all. That would only destroy our cap.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 10:36 AM
They aren't going to extend his contract for 3 years and then trade him. They also aren't going to franchise him because that would be even more expensive.

David is staying, Vince isn't being drafted. Deal with it.

DRAMA
01-09-2006, 10:37 AM
It's like me saying I want to get my masters - my intent is to get my masters - i'm going to get my masters but if someone offers me a million dollars, my intent MAY change. That 'million dollars' declared yesterday. It changes everything. Now, after they go look at film, hire a new coach, and see what they have with Carr and possible trade value, the Texans 'intent' may have changed. MAY being the operative word here.

Make no mistake - NO MATTER WHAT MCCLAIN SAYS - Vince Young and David Carr will NOT be on the same team next year.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 10:40 AM
They aren't going to extend his contract for 3 years and then trade him. They also aren't going to franchise him because that would be even more expensive.

David is staying, Vince isn't being drafted. Deal with it.

Oh believe me, in 5 years we will ALL be dealing with it...

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:40 AM
They aren't going to extend his contract for 3 years and then trade him. They also aren't going to franchise him because that would be even more expensive.

David is staying, Vince isn't being drafted. Deal with it.If they intend to trade him the franchise tag is one way to go since there is no bonus that accelerates into this cap year. Carr has a base salary of $5,250,000 PLUS his bonus. The entire bonus would have to come of this years cap at once if we traded him.

DRAMA
01-09-2006, 10:40 AM
This makes your point even worse...not better. Exercising the option will give us a massive cap hit. F-tagging Carr won't give you a drop of cap hit repercussion, so if you want to trade Carr you don't pick up the option at all. That would only destroy our cap.

That's what I was screaming at the radio this morning as McClain was saying that they'll exercise Carr's deal and then trade him. Nice John, we'll just tie a hundred billion into 2 QB's and go ahead and forget about signing a free agent.

As Vince Vaughn said to Will Ferrell in OLD SCHOOL, "Way to think it through!!"

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 10:43 AM
I grew up with the Oilers as a child...This franchise doesn't get my childhood love. They have to earn my adult adulation. It's hard to get with a smug GM who has failed this franchise for 4 years with his poor scouting from FA to the draft. I know you don't think Casserly has done a poor job but I think you are way off on that one.

I hear you on the childhood love. I like to think though that I'm more patient as a man than I was when I was a boy. I've also learned that just because someone's personality grates on my nerves that doesn't mean he's not still doing a good job. I don't think Casserly has done a great job and I thank you for stating my position clearly. I think he's not done a poor job. I also think that if we accept at face value what Dan Reeves has said (always a tricky business in the NFL, taking things at face value) then the people who failed the franchise for the past four years were the coaches primarily and if Casserly is guilty of anything then it's picking those coaches and then allowing this to go on as long as it did. I think if they're going to hire Gary Kubiak then I want to see what he can do with David Carr. I want to see what he does with Domanick Davis too.

Much like me, they all bought into the fact that Young wasn't coming out. Everyone knows that Young is the first big time underclassman player in the new Horns era to bolt for the NFL. It's a new dynamic, and he is a future NFL superstar. Heck I've been talking Young up for a year. I don't have time to search but here's a thread where I'm talking about Young way before he delcared for the draft...

http://www.houstonprofootball.com/forums/showthread.php?s=&postid=55633&highlight=superstar+young#post55633


I think you give them too much credit Vinny. I think more of them didn't think of Young as an option until he practicially beat USC single handedly. You may have been sold on the idea that Young wasn't coming out and there may be a few others in here who could convince me they felt this way but the majority are on the bandwagon just like they were on the Bush bandwagon a week or two prior.

Running backs are a dime a dozen. More pop up every year and we can always get a great back if we need one. Heck, nobody wanted Shaun Alexander for a 2nd round pick last year. Nobody wanted Edge James...why? Backs are a dime a dozen no matter how great they are. Quarterbacks? Totally different story since all 32 teams don't even have a quality starter (much less franchise quality starter) and they are incredibly hard to find.

Vinny how come RB's are a dime a dozen even though all 32 teams lack a quality starter there but QB's are a totally different story since all 32 teams don't even have a quality starter? That's true you know. There aren't 32 guys starting at RB in this league who I'd call quality starters. Not every team has a RB who couldn't stand to be upgraded.

I think most teams feel they can find a RB on their own but they don't necessarily succeed at it just like teams that pick QB's don't always succeed at it. There's a list of busts at both positions that's a mile long so I'd hardly say that either one is a dime-dozen position.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 10:44 AM
That's what I was screaming at the radio this morning as McClain was saying that they'll exercise Carr's deal and then trade him. Nice John, we'll just tie a hundred billion into 2 QB's and go ahead and forget about signing a free agent.

As Vince Vaughn said to Will Ferrell in OLD SCHOOL, "Way to think it through!!"Now...if they only extend him for 2 years we only have a 5 mil hit to dissolve. If they extend him for two years, they will trade him (opinion...obviously) since it would be plain dumb to pass on Vince Young and only pick up Carr for 2 years. This would not be a very confident move....and if they are not confident in Carr they must take Young now since we likely won't get another Franchise QB in the middle of the draft down the road. If they extend him for the full 3 we will be keeping him.

Marcus
01-09-2006, 10:44 AM
This makes your point even worse...not better. Exercising the option will give us a massive cap hit. F-tagging Carr won't give you a drop of cap hit repercussion, so if you want to trade Carr you don't pick up the option at all. That would only destroy our cap.

I agree with that . . . if it is the 3-year option. Bob Allen specifically asked him if it would be the 3-year option, and after replaying the thing 10 times, I still could not understand his answer. It's like the editors cut it off or something.

texan279
01-09-2006, 10:44 AM
It's like me saying I want to get my masters - my intent is to get my masters - i'm going to get my masters but if someone offers me a million dollars, my intent MAY change. That 'million dollars' declared yesterday. It changes everything. Now, after they go look at film, hire a new coach, and see what they have with Carr and possible trade value, the Texans 'intent' may have changed. MAY being the operative word here.

Make no mistake - NO MATTER WHAT MCCLAIN SAYS - Vince Young and David Carr will NOT be on the same team next year.

As far as seeing what we have with Carr, Woody just said on 1st and 10 that Reeves thinks Carr should stay and that our people have talked to 5 or 6 current/past NFL scouts and they all think Carr will be a great NFL QB. I have no idea where he got the info though or how old it is, he didn't say.

DRAMA
01-09-2006, 10:48 AM
As far as seeing what we have with Carr, Woody just said on 1st and 10 that Reeves thinks Carr should stay and that our people have talked to 5 or 6 current/past NFL scouts and they all think Carr will be a great NFL QB. I have no idea where he got the info though or how old it is, he didn't say.

McNair also said yesterday in the interview with Allen that he wants to win quickly. Quickly may be a bigger word than we're thinking. Do we win quicker with Vince or Reggie? It may simply come down to that.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 10:49 AM
As far as seeing what we have with Carr, Woody just said on 1st and 10 that Reeves thinks Carr should stay and that our people have talked to 5 or 6 current/past NFL scouts and they all think Carr will be a great NFL QB. I have no idea where he got the info though or how old it is, he didn't say.

Maybe it is just me but I trust what I hear locally with their sources than someone like Woody. That guy is a nut case. I think this is a long ways away and that there is no way on God's green earth that people can make an assumption that Carr will be great.

texan279
01-09-2006, 10:51 AM
Maybe it is just me but I trust what I hear locally with their sources than someone like Woody. That guy is a nut case. I think this is a long ways away and that there is no way on God's green earth that people can make an assumption that Carr will be great.

It makes sense if you think about it. Cass said last night Carr will be back. Woody says Reeves says Carr should stay. They have been listening to a lot of what Reeves has been saying since he has been here. Also I think I have heard the thing about the scouts who think Carr will be great, but I want to say I heard it a very long time ago, like a couple of years ago, I could be wrong though.

Jack Bauer
01-09-2006, 10:51 AM
This makes your point even worse...not better. Exercising the option will give us a massive cap hit. F-tagging Carr won't give you a drop of cap hit repercussion, so if you want to trade Carr you don't pick up the option at all. That would only destroy our cap.

The keys to what Casserly said were two words: "plan" and "if". This is why I don't see Carr coming back as a slam dunk. I am not saying they have "decided" to take Vince. I don't think they have made their decision at this point. Before VY declared, it was a slam dunk that they would take Reggie Bush. With VY declaring, they are going to take a step back and look at the entire situation again. Charley said "if" and "plan" several times, so I do think he left a lot of wiggle room out there. If they were DEFINITELY going to pick up the option, there would have been no "ifs" and "plans" in his speech.

Bob McNair made me feel more like we were still set on choosing Bush. He kept mentioning that we needed an immediate impact player or a trade offer that we could not refuse for the first pick. I think VY will be an impact player, but not in year one. This is why I think he is still set on Bush at the moment.

Bottom line: I don't think the Carr contract situation is settled at this point. VY, Bush and a trade are still possibilities. In other words, nothing is settled.

Vinny
01-09-2006, 11:01 AM
I hear you on the childhood love. I like to think though that I'm a more patient as a man than I was when I was a boy. I've also learned that just because someone's personality grates on my nerves that doesn't mean he's not still doing a good job. I don't think Casserly has done a great job and I thank you for stating my position clearly. I think he's not done a poor job. After 4 years we had the worst offense in football and the worst defense. We don’t have an edge rusher (Peek is a situational pass rusher on most NFL teams), Babin may or may not pan out. We have the worst linebacker corp in the NFL. We have one quality corner back.

On offense we have the worst line in the NFL. We have a starter who has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts; we have the worst TE situation in the NFL….

So, where is all this talent? I don’t see it.

I know we brought in Stacey Mack to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in James Allen to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Keith Mitchell to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Charley Clemmons to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Matt Stevens to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Victor Riley to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Jay Foreman to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

We brought in Steve McKinney to start. He’s paid like a pro bowler…just like Todd Wade.

We traded for Pbuc and gave away the first day of last years draft outside of Travis Johnson for that

The only team in the NFL that offered Corey Bradford a contract? Casserly's team?

Hey, let’s cut Steve Foley! How about cutting Marlon McCree? How about Wright? Sharper? Glenn? They all start in the NFL….on good defenses. Nice roster moves there too....yeah, Charley has done a great job.

I also think that is we accept at face value what Dan Reeves has said (always a tricky business in the NFL, taking things at face value) then the people who failed the franchise for the past four years were the coaches primarily and if Casserly is guilty of anything then it's picking those coaches and then allowing this to go on as long as it did. I think if they're going to hire Gary Kubiak then I want to see what he can do with David Carr. I want to see what he does with Domanick Davis too.
Dan Reeves thought Tommy Maddox was a Franchise QB too. How come Reeves and Kubiak didn’t make him a great player? I’ll tell you….Players make players great players…not coaches.


Vinny how come RB's are a dime a dozen even though all 32 teams lack a quality starter there but QB's are a totally different story since all 32 teams don't even have a quality starter? That's true you know. There aren't 32 guys starting at RB in this league who I'd call quality starters. Not every team has a RB who couldn't stand to be upgraded. You tell me why Edge James and Shaun Alexander get no action on the trade block while Doug Jolley can get a first round pick…..I’ll save you the time…Quality backs can be had on the first day of any NFL draft, so there is no reason to trade a high pick for one.

If you don’t think the QB is the key to playing good football but when Carson Palmer went down the Bengals were done. When Pennington went down the Jets were done. If we had a better QB here the last 4 years we would not be debating this pick right now…that’s just what I think.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:07 AM
I believe that Edgerrin James and Shaun Alexander didn't get first rounders because they were going to be FA's, which meant that teams would have to give them big contracts and there would be no guarantee that they would be able to keep them after this season.

Would you give up a 1st rounder for a player that could leave after 1 season?

Vinny
01-09-2006, 11:09 AM
then you just sign them. problem sovled. Bush isn't coming here cheap...actually in his draft slot he would instantly be paid higher than Franchise backs are paid.....and backs can be had on day one in any draft...but franchise QB's can't.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:11 AM
What makes you so sure that Shaun Alexander or Edgerrin James would want to stay at whatever team they were traded to? They don't have to sign after their contract is over.

WWJD
01-09-2006, 11:13 AM
Just sharing news...and it's just another way for me to show that people are put off by Casserly. Casserly is the face of this franchise and he is angering the fans. I think Bob McNair should know this....no way this can be good.


Ok. I get your point. Thanks.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:15 AM
Didn't James Allen retire to be a rapper? Or was that someone else?

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 11:17 AM
It makes sense if you think about it. Cass said last night Carr will be back. Woody says Reeves says Carr should stay. They have been listening to a lot of what Reeves has been saying since he has been here. Also I think I have heard the thing about the scouts who think Carr will be great, but I want to say I heard it a very long time ago, like a couple of years ago, I could be wrong though.

Oh, I can totally see it. I have said all along that Bush with O-line in the upper to mid rounds and FAs is the safe way to go. I'm just not a Carr fan at all and I can see where VY could be an intriguing option. Considering that he really wasn't fully scouted up until now I think things might change, depending on what the can do with Carrs contract, etc.

chuckm
01-09-2006, 11:19 AM
If we had a better QB here the last 4 years we would not be debating this pick right now…that’s just what I think.

As I sit in my comfortable chair in my nice warm office, I'm wondering how well I could do my job if I were running for my life everytime I tried to make a decision .... or if my boss told me that I'm allowed to make decisions to adjust to what the competition does, but only small changes, don't go overboard ...... it's too narrow of a view to make the above statement, IMO

Jack Bauer
01-09-2006, 11:26 AM
As I sit in my comfortable chair in my nice warm office, I'm wondering how well I could do my job if I were running for my life everytime I tried to make a decision .... or if my boss told me that I'm allowed to make decisions to adjust to what the competition does, but only small changes, don't go overboard ...... it's too narrow of a view to make the above statement, IMO

DITTO!

tulexan
01-09-2006, 11:27 AM
or if my boss told me that I'm allowed to make decisions to adjust to what the competition does, but only small changes, don't go overboard ...... it's too narrow of a view to make the above statement, IMO

Not only that, but when you do make a change the competition knows exactly what you are doing because you are only allowed to make one change.

TexasJedi
01-09-2006, 11:36 AM
I thought Charley was unequivocal in saying that we are keeping Carr, meaning we will draft Bush. I think he was careful with his wording, not to leave himself wiggle room, but so that he would not violate league rules commenting about Juniors. Even though Vince had a presser announcing his decision, I think teams have to wait until they get official word from the league office before they can comment.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 11:40 AM
As I sit in my comfortable chair in my nice warm office, I'm wondering how well I could do my job if I were running for my life everytime I tried to make a decision .... or if my boss told me that I'm allowed to make decisions to adjust to what the competition does, but only small changes, don't go overboard ...... it's too narrow of a view to make the above statement, IMO

Sorry but I was done with this excuse last year. Maybe it is the O-line that takes too much abuse sometimes. Are they bad?Yes. But Carr holding the ball and his ability to only lock into one receiver while others run open probably leads to half the sacks he takes. I'm just tired of excuses when the man can't learn.

SESupergenius
01-09-2006, 11:40 AM
Vinny is on fire today!

For the most part I agree with Vinny, except that I think after all of that and stating the we have the worst line the league, just as you say we can't pass up on Young, we can't pass on Carr because of the situation he was put in, ie... no line, no talent, bad FA moves etc.

Two things i'd like to get cleared up:

1) If we sign Carr, then trade him, we eat the bonus this year. If we trade for another player, then the team we trade with has to eat their bonus on that player too. Isn't that essentially a wash and all we are doing is excelerating the cap hit? We still get a player.

2) After looking at the teams, who is desperate enough to trade up?

chuckm
01-09-2006, 11:44 AM
Sorry but I was done with this excuse last year. Maybe it is the O-line that takes too much abuse sometimes. Are they bad?Yes. But Carr holding the ball and his ability to only lock into one receiver while others run open probably leads to half the sacks he takes.

well there's no doubt about some of your points brother ... no argument from me ... I am not a Carr apologist in the slightest but neither do I bleed orange .... if Carr and Young decide tomorrow to retire and start a rock band, I wouldn't lose any sleep ..... but you have to look at the entire picture, not just zero in on what supports your point....

Mr. White
01-09-2006, 11:51 AM
Bob and Charley---- NEWSFLASH----your team just went 2-14. This is exactly the mentality that has caused you to be where you are now. We'll stay with the guy that has great potential and hasn't realized it in 4 years. (Oh yeah, he has a bad line... DD still got 1000 yards with it.) Once a loser, always a loser.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 11:55 AM
well there's no doubt about some of your points brother ... no argument from me ... I am not a Carr apologist in the slightest but neither do I bleed orange .... if Carr and Young decide tomorrow to retire and start a rock band, I wouldn't lose any sleep ..... but you have to look at the entire picture, not just zero in on what supports your point....

I agree, I don't bleed orange either and as I said in a post last week it got real bandwagony for VY after that game. I do think he is a stud and will be good. I also don't think people can predict what they will do. Alot of time left.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 11:56 AM
How many times does somebody have to tell you people that we are not taking Vince Young.

I truely believe that were ever Vince goes some of you better go with him.

HE WILL NEVER WEAR A TEXANS UNIFORM, EVER, STOP DOING THIS TO YOURSELF.

I just don't think you can say this without a doubt. I have been in the be safe, pick Bush camp all along but there are 3 months and alot of scouting left and things can change depending on deals, etc. Nothing is a given.

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2006, 11:58 AM
Not a chance.

Brady Quinn will win the Heisman next year and be the overall #1...:yahoo:

T-sippers have nothing on domers when it comes to elevating our own.:ok:

:coffee:

You got that right. When a school has their own network contract they have an unfair advantage. Not quite sure how that is allowed.

Marcus
01-09-2006, 12:02 PM
How many times does somebody have to tell you people that we are not taking Vince Young.

I truely believe that were ever Vince goes some of you better go with him.

HE WILL NEVER WEAR A TEXANS UNIFORM, EVER, STOP DOING THIS TO YOURSELF.

I'm going to remember this post . . . for future reference.:)

The Reggie Bush debate is just a football issue.

But this Vince Young thing has gone political.

Runner
01-09-2006, 12:03 PM
Vinny is on fire today!


2) After looking at the teams, who is desperate enough to trade up?

First statement: agreed.


2) I think we're desperate enough to trade up to the 1st and 2nd pick!

Kaiser Toro
01-09-2006, 12:04 PM
After 4 years we had the worst offense in football and the worst defense. We don’t have an edge rusher (Peek is a situational pass rusher on most NFL teams), Babin may or may not pan out. We have the worst linebacker corp in the NFL. We have one quality corner back.

On offense we have the worst line in the NFL. We have a starter who has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts; we have the worst TE situation in the NFL….

So, where is all this talent? I don’t see it.

I know we brought in Stacey Mack to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in James Allen to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Keith Mitchell to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Charley Clemmons to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Matt Stevens to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Victor Riley to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I know we brought in Jay Foreman to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

We brought in Steve McKinney to start. He’s paid like a pro bowler…just like Todd Wade.

We traded for Pbuc and gave away the first day of last years draft outside of Travis Johnson for that

The only team in the NFL that offered Corey Bradford a contract? Casserly's team?

Hey, let’s cut Steve Foley! How about cutting Marlon McCree? How about Wright? Sharper? Glenn? They all start in the NFL….on good defenses. Nice roster moves there too....yeah, Charley has done a great job.


Dan Reeves thought Tommy Maddox was a Franchise QB too. How come Reeves and Kubiak didn’t make him a great player? I’ll tell you….Players make players great players…not coaches.


You tell me why Edge James and Shaun Alexander get no action on the trade block while Doug Jolley can get a first round pick…..I’ll save you the time…Quality backs can be had on the first day of any NFL draft, so there is no reason to trade a high pick for one.

If you don’t think the QB is the key to playing good football but when Carson Palmer went down the Bengals were done. When Pennington went down the Jets were done. If we had a better QB here the last 4 years we would not be debating this pick right now…that’s just what I think.

Wow when do we hand the pink slips out. Nice post V.

chuckm
01-09-2006, 12:05 PM
I'm going to remember this post . . . for future reference.:)

The Reggie Bush debate is just a football issue.

But this Vince Young thing has gone political.

only political? I'm buying a Longhorn flag to hang outside my house after the draft in case the Texans pass on Young .... so that orange-clad, marauding mob passes right on by ....

Mr. White
01-09-2006, 12:13 PM
some guys are better run blockers then Pass blocking ones, not knowing that makes me question how much football knowledge is going on around here.

For you to question someone else's knowledge only when they have a different opinion than yours really reflects badly on your own intelligence. That BS is also prohibited on these boards. Not knowing how to use punctuation or which words to capitalize isn't real smart either.

I don't care if they can run block or pass block...They knew they needed help after the first season and it hasn't gotten better 3 years later....Or has it and the QB just doesn't check off on other recevers, stays in the pocket too long and has a team that generally doesn't follow him?

If the problem really is the line, then they've had plenty of time to fix it. If it's the QB, then it's time to fix it now.

TEXANS84
01-09-2006, 12:16 PM
One of the things that stood out on that interview was that it seemed as if they were talking in the past tense as far as the defensive coordinator position is concerned. Seems as if we've seen the end of Vic Fangio and the zone-blitz.

Also, Antwan Peek seemed to welcome the thought of being a defensive end in a 4-3.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 12:16 PM
For you to question someone else's knowledge only when they have a different opinion than yours really reflects badly on your own intelligence. That BS is also prohibited on these boards. Not knowing how to use punctuation or which words to capitalize isn't real smart either.

I don't care if they can run block or pass block...They knew they needed help after the first season and it hasn't gotten better 3 years later....Or has it and the QB just doesn't check off on other recevers, stays in the pocket too long and has a team that generally doesn't follow him?

If the problem really is the line, then they've had plenty of time to fix it. If it's the QB, then it's time to fix it now.

Could not agree more. It isn't like someone is here saying pick a TE #1. People have opinions and like certain players. Getting personal is just a no-no.

texan279
01-09-2006, 12:18 PM
For you to question someone else's knowledge only when they have a different opinion than yours really reflects badly on your own intelligence. That BS is also prohibited on these boards. Not knowing how to use punctuation or which words to capitalize isn't real smart either.

I don't care if they can run block or pass block...They knew they needed help after the first season and it hasn't gotten better 3 years later....Or has it and the QB just doesn't check off on other recevers, stays in the pocket too long and has a team that generally doesn't follow him?

If the problem really is the line, then they've had plenty of time to fix it. If it's the QB, then it's time to fix it now.

Just FYI, you told him that to question someone else's knowledge is prohibited then told him that not knowing how to use punctuation isn't smart...And yes, our biggest problem is the offensive line.

texan279
01-09-2006, 12:19 PM
One of the things that stood out on that interview was that it seemed as if they were talking in the past tense as far as the defensive coordinator position is concerned. Seems as if we've seen the end of Vic Fangio and the zone-blitz.

Also, Antwan Peek seemed to welcome the thought of being a defensive end in a 4-3.

Wasn't everyone canned already? Did I miss something?

bullman
01-09-2006, 12:20 PM
Could not agree more. It isn't like someone is here saying pick a TE #1. People have opinions and like certain players. Getting personal is just a no-no.
VY will not be drafted by the Texans he is going to the titans end of story!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :crying:

Mr. White
01-09-2006, 12:24 PM
Just FYI, you told him that to question someone else's knowledge is prohibited then told him that not knowing how to use punctuation isn't smart...And yes, our biggest problem is the offensive line.

Touche...lol.

Malloy
01-09-2006, 12:39 PM
If the Texans and Young talked, what could happen? I believe that Young is only coming out, because he wants to play in Houston.

About this Bush or Young issue...I do not like that the announcers were saying Bush couldn't have a great game because Texas focused on him and that he had not faced a deffense as fast and big as Texas. The worst NFL deffenses are as fast and big as Texas.

Young has been a winner and leader since high school. I have been watching, he will be big in the NFL.

I am really a Carr fan, but Young will be better, plus unfortunately Carr as possibly gotten used to losing, and that might take longer to get rid of than Young being new to the NFL.

What I'm thinking is, when are the cap-limit for rookie players going to take effect, and if it's next years draft, Young could be joining this draft to make sure he gets a good first contract?

thunderkyss
01-09-2006, 12:41 PM
People can say it wasn't just "one game" all they want but where was this outpouring of demand for Vince Young prior to that one game? It didn't exist. It literally did not exist so regardless of what anybody says this is about the Rose Bowl and what Vince Young showed there. Sure there were a handful of people who were dreaming of getting him but their posts and reasonings were, for the most part irrational UT fan rambles which mirrored the "Reggie Bush WILL RULE!" crowd.



I''ve got to agree. It is about one game. That RoseBowl game that Wednesday night. If it weren't for that one game, no one would be talking about drafting Vince this year. That game changed a lot, it did for me anyway. I've been a VinceYoung fan since last years Rose Bowl, and I followed him, and was amazed by him all year. But it was that one game, that put away any notion, that the kid would be going back to school next year. After watching that game, I knew without a doubt, that he would declare for the draft. I knew it, and everyone who saw the game new it. The kid is ready.

Now, this is totally different from the Reggie Bush thing. All year long, people have been talking about Regie and the Race for Reggie, and all year long, I've been saying we don't need Reggie. We've got RBs coming out of our rears. re-sign wells, and don't look back. Look at that one game, were Reggie faced the toughest defense of his college carreer, where he faced a pseudo NFL Defense....... Reggie Bush's only contribution to how that game turned out, was a goofball play he never wished happened. If he's coming to the Texans, he's going to have games like that week in, and week out. Even if we get two studs on the offensiveline, I've never seen a rookie dominate on the OL. So, nothings going to really change for us.

But Vince..... One player at QB, can make the difference. Can turn a team around....... you don't need any studs on the line with Vince. With Vince, even the four man rush is going to ease up a little, because they'll be thinking contain. Yeah, send a corner to blitz..... Vince will throw a 25 yard strike with the guy hanging from his waist....... kinda like he did in that one game.

Speedy
01-09-2006, 12:45 PM
Just sharing news...and it's just another way for me to show that people are put off by Casserly. Casserly is the face of this franchise and he is angering the fans. I think Bob McNair should know this....no way this can be good.
NO, he's just angering you UT fans who can't see anything through those orange colored glasses you wear. Now I'm sure that since the big bad mod is a UT fan/VY fan, that this post gets deleted, whatever. If that's the kind of Nazi board you want to run that's your business.

WAY TO GO CASSERLY!!!!

BUSH MAKES THIS TEAM BETTER NOW!!! YOUNG IS ANOTHER 2-3 YEARS OF LOSING, WAITING FOR HIM TO DEVELOP. YOU THINK YOUNG IS THIS GREAT PASSER WHO CAN BUST OUT A RUN? SEE MICHAEL VICK. HE LED THE NCAA IN PASSER RATING IN '99. ALSO SEE DAVID CARR, 2nd LEADING RUSHING QB IN THE NFL. WE ALREADY HAVE A RUNNING QB WHO CAN THROW. WITH A COACHING STAFF IN HERE THAT ACTUALLY COACHES AND WEAPONS AROUND HIM (AJ, BUSH, WHAT IF MATHIS DEVELOPS, DD/MORENCY, DRAFT A GOOD TE WHO CAN BLOCK AND CATCH UP THE SEAM, USE REST OF DRAFT OR FA ON SOME LINEMEN) CARR WILL BE ABLE TO PLAY UP TO HIS POTENTIAL THAT THE LAST COACHING STAFF PREVENTED HIM FROM DOING, IMO, AND THIS OFFENSE IS POTENT NOW!!! NOT 2-3 YEARS DOWN THE ROAD WHEN VINCE DEVELOPS INTO AN NFL QB, IF HE EVER DOES.

AND WHEN YOUNG IS STRUGGLING HIS FIRST COUPLE OF YEARS, YOU UT FANS WON'T BE IN THE STADIUM EITHER. WINNING PUTS PEOPLE IN THE SEATS!!! PERIOD!!!!

Now go ahead and delete my post since it doesn't fall in line with the UT way of thinking since this has become a UT Texans board even though it still says HOUSTON Texans at the top of the page.

TheOgre
01-09-2006, 12:46 PM
Another great Casserly choice:

Carolina strong safety Marlon McCree continues to have a terrific season. The journeyman safety, who moved into the starting lineup two games into the year, replacing first-round draft choice Thomas Davis, had six tackles, two interceptions and two passes defensed on Sunday. Not bad for a guy making the minimum base salary.


http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/columns/story?columnist=pasquarelli_len&page=morning18

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 01:32 PM
I'm not making excuses for all the mistakes made by Capers & Co, but we should keep in mind that this team started with NOTHING 4 yrs ago. We've picked up many quality players in the draft over the last 4 yrs and with a real coaching staff could still be on track for the playoffs next year.

I think it's clear to most people, after their rose bowl buzz has worn off, that we can't honestly evaluate Carr until he is under a new coahing staff. Which means no trading him, no VY, and no more hysteria. Either draft an impact player (other than QB) at #1 or trade down and stock pile 5 picks in the first 3 rounds- (5 of the first 70 or so picks, which should be a ton of talent even allowing for a bust or two which happens to all teams)

As an aside, I think CC is more matter-of-fact than smug. He only irritates me when he avoids answering simple questions. Besides he's the best evaluator of 4th round talent ANYWHERE- DD (1,000 yd rusher), Mathis (ProBowler), Glenn Earl (starter), Jonathan Wells (quality RB).

Htown34s
01-09-2006, 01:33 PM
only political? I'm buying a Longhorn flag to hang outside my house after the draft in case the Texans pass on Young .... so that orange-clad, marauding mob passes right on by ....

You lose credibility when you say that the Longhorns are the only ones pushing for Vince.

**NEWSFLA******** Channel 13 did a poll and 79% of Houstonians they polled wanted Vince. I guess all of the graduates of UT have only moved to Houston.

I'm a Longhorn fan, but I am not fond of Simms or Benson, and Roy Williams seems to be slacking just like he did at UT. Get it out of your head that only homers like VY.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 01:34 PM
I would hope that if we traded the #1 pick we would get more than one other pick in the first 3 rounds because right now we have 4 picks in the top 66.

Runner
01-09-2006, 01:37 PM
Just FYI, you told him that to question someone else's knowledge is prohibited then told him that not knowing how to use punctuation isn't smart...And yes, our biggest problem is the offensive line.

Especially when your post has misspellings...

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 01:39 PM
After 4 years we had the worst offense in football and the worst defense. We don’t have an edge rusher (Peek is a situational pass rusher on most NFL teams), Babin may or may not pan out. We have the worst linebacker corp in the NFL. We have one quality corner back.

On offense we have the worst line in the NFL. We have a starter who has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts; we have the worst TE situation in the NFL….

So, where is all this talent? I don’t see it.

Wow, you really feel strongly about this issue and about this player. Hey, I understand that and I can tell it's genuine. I'm going to reply but it's just talk and I'm just putting my case out there. The more points of view the better if you get my drift.

Yes, there's no denying that we had the worst offense and defense in football last year and I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. We did see that Antwaan Peek wasn't all he was cracked up to be and our edge rusher is still non-existent. I'm going to lay Babin on the coaches though since the only thing I've ever heard about where that decision came from was that Capers and Fangio wanted him. I'm not saying that's the truth, just that it's all I have to go on. Now following last season you were talking about how Babin had a pretty fair rookie season and how "tweeners" took time to develop. Now this year the reports are that he was injured so I can't completely come down on him for his lack of development this season.

Our cornerback is a good one but it sure would be nice if we had a pair of them. The Buchanon deal is a case where even I cannot say that Casserly did a good job, or even an adequat job. That one is a mystery to me.

On offense though I have to take issue with the "worst line in the NFL" statement, I'm not saying they aren't the worst line in the NFL of course. I'm saying that if they are then don't you have to allow for that when you note that our QB has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts? I'm assuming you're not calling them the worst line in the NFL because of their run blocking right? Domanick Davis gets his thousand yards a year for the most part and both Wells and Morency can run behind this line. It's got to be the pass protection that you are talking about and if that's true then surely you have to admit that some of the shortcomings we all see in David Carr must be laid at their feet.

Not all of course. No, I don't believe that David Carr is flawless or without room for improvement. That would be pretty silly to suggest. I'm saying that you're talking about throwing Vince Young behind the "worst line in the NFL" because David Carr has played poorly behind the "worst line in the NFL". That one runs in circles in your head doesn't it?

As for the TE situation you cannot possibly suggest that Bennie Joppru and his three straight season ending injuries could have been predicted. Granted of course that a move should have been made to realistically address the void left by his departure.


I know we brought in Stacey Mack to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

Yes and we drafted Domanick Davis in the fourth round and he's done pretty much what we expected Stacey Mack to do. He neither excels nor does he embarass. He just gets the job done "well enough" until another back can be found to improve the position. Tony Hollings was supposed to improve the position. I guess Vernand Morency was too. Jonathan Wells was about the same caliber as Davis though in a different mold and a much slower starter. Dime a dozen these guys are.

I know we brought in James Allen to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

Did James Allen even try to get a job in the NFL after he left here? He wanted to be a rapper if I'm not mistaken. I honestly don't remember if I heard tell of him trying to make another squad or not. I know that he saw the writing on the wall and was out of here. Why wouldn't he be. We had just signed Stacey Mack and much of the talk prior to 2003 was about how Allen and Wells were losers who wouldn't make it out of training camp. I know you remember that.

I know we brought in Keith Mitchell to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

Did he ever even challenge for a starting spot? I don't remember him all that well but I do remember the name. I seem to recall him being with the Jaguars for a very short time following his year here. Oh well, you win some you lose some right? James Posey stood out while Keith Mitchell faded out.

I know we brought in Charley Clemmons to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

You got me on that one. To this very day I find myself thinking "WTF, where did the little chubby dude come from" when I look at a game from that season. That is of course when he was on the field. I think that outside of our clear starters Casserly has brought in some good linebackers (Posey, Foley) and some bad ones (Mitchell, Clemons) and to date we haven't had a defense that knew what to do with them or how to tell them apart.

I know we brought in Matt Stevens to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

Another 2002 alumnus. You were more forgiving of them back in the day. Now they are evidence that Casserly has never know what he was doing? Matt Stevens played here long enough for us to find someone to take his place. That was explanation enough for me. Granted I thought Marlon McCree should have been that guy and that it should have happened a lot sooner but that's water under the bridge. Matt Stevens sucked, I'll agree with you there willingly.

I know we brought in Victor Riley to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

I got the impression that Victor Riley was brought in to replace Marcus Spears who was, for all intents and purposes no more than someone to practice against. Joe Pendry is the one that decided to replace Seth Wand with Victor Riley. Now that I think about it Joe Pendry was the one who decided that it was time to replace Chester Pitts with Seth Wand. Hmmm, I think we're on to something here. I wonder what would have happened if Chester Pitts had stayed at LT following the Texans 36 sack season?

We'll never know. You know I consider the offensive lines shortcomings to be primarily the result of scheme and coaching so no sense going back over that.

I know we brought in Jay Foreman to start…and he couldn’t get a job in the NFL after we cut him.

2002 alumnus and I've already said my piece on Texans linebackers so you know what I'm going to say about this. No point in retyping it all.

We brought in Steve McKinney to start. He’s paid like a pro bowler…just like Todd Wade.

McKinney was again a 2002 team member. An original free agent signing from back in the "long ago time". Sure he should be cut now and it's time we found a real center but we got what we could get back in 2002. What can I say, we needed some veteran linemen and nobody was giving them out for free.

We traded for Pbuc and gave away the first day of last years draft outside of Travis Johnson for that

Now we get to it. The straw that really did break the Camels back. The Buchanon trade was indefensible and solidly on the side of things Charlie Casserly has screwed up. We're still mostly burning about this one and if any one thing runs Casserly out of town it's going to be this one. More than anything it haunts him and he carries the blame for it. He can say that Capers wanted Babin and so he made the deal and we're all inclined to let him have that one. Buchanon he can't shift to anybody. It's become synonymous with him.

I hate like hell that we traded those picks for Phillip Buchanon. Honestly If I were an NFL GM I'd refuse to answer the phone when the Raiders were calling. It just seems like we always get the "muddy" end of that stick.

The only team in the NFL that offered Corey Bradford a contract? Casserly's team?

I don't hold it against Casserly that he offered Bradford a very reasonable contract. I do hold it against the coaching staff here that Bradford started for us for 16 weeks. I found that incomprehensible with the other receivers we had on our roster. That was a coaching decision though. Bradford, it was reported had the best camp of his career last year so maybe they made the right choice. People bring guys into camp all the time who don't make it to opening day. I blame the coaches here.

Hey, let’s cut Steve Foley! How about cutting Marlon McCree? How about Wright? Sharper? Glenn? They all start in the NFL….on good defenses. Nice roster moves there too....yeah, Charley has done a great job.

That bunch of roster moves goes from one end of the spectrum to another so I can't address them all with one answer. All of them IMO should still be here and I'm at a loss as to why they are not. I don't think that it's possible to lay each and every one of their cases at Charlie Casserly's feet though and I don't think you really believe that either. The GM by himself doesn't just walk down to the Head Coaches office and tell him that he's running these guys off whether Dom likes it or not. He doesn't let those guys go without some input from the coaches who work with those players.

All of the guys you mention there are on defense where the Texans have traditionally had the most "slip ups" when it came to players getting vocal with their complaints and frustrations. I think there's something to that. The very vocal complaints you've seen in our defensive players also have led to guys like Jeff Posey signing a deal the moment it was possible, just like Steve Foley did. Good players who could ran like hell from Vic Fangios defense. Other guys who could like Sharper and Glenn didn't make any bones about bailing when the opportunity presented itself. Bad players like Jay Foreman were upset by being let go but the good ones leave without a second thought. You think it's lack of faith in the system and coaching or do you think it's a deep seated dislike of the GM here?

Dan Reeves thought Tommy Maddox was a Franchise QB too. How come Reeves and Kubiak didn’t make him a great player? I’ll tell you….Players make players great players…not coaches.

Well the Steelers proved years later that Tommy Maddox just might have been a franchise QB so maybe he was on to something. I'm not sure how Reeves was going to make Maddox a franchise QB in Denver when he was right smack dab in the middle of John Elways career but hey, the man can dream right? Kubiak I think had split to San Francisco by the time Maddox came to town but I might be wrong about that. Regardless he'd be in his first year as an assistant of some sort so I don't know if I'd expect him to be creating franchise QB's just yet. Everything takes time.


You tell me why Edge James and Shaun Alexander get no action on the trade block while Doug Jolley can get a first round pick…..I’ll save you the time…Quality backs can be had on the first day of any NFL draft, so there is no reason to trade a high pick for one.

If you don’t think the QB is the key to playing good football but when Carson Palmer went down the Bengals were done. When Pennington went down the Jets were done. If we had a better QB here the last 4 years we would not be debating this pick right now…that’s just what I think.

Maybe not. Maybe we'd be talking about our first wildcard game or something. Or maybe we did have a better QB here but did a lousy job of developing him. It's not impossible. Why can't David Carr do what Jake Plummer did? Why can't he turn a corner and improve with better coaching and more weapons? I can accept that Reggie Bush isn't necessary. If we do hire Kubiak I want Bush because that offensive system can have any back plugged into it BUT it gets even better when you plug a guy like Bush into it. I also think that if Kubiak wants to trade down and get some better linemen or fix some defense that's ok too. I see Vince Young as a complete waste of that pick though and I think that unless he proves me wrong I always will.

This is one of those times when I wish I could fast forward life to see what these two QB's are doing three years from now. Despite what I said at the start of this long post I'm an impatient man and always have been. For some reason though I'm not impatient about the Texans right now. I think that they've let go of the people they needed to and that the team is better than it seems. Hopeless optimism? Maybe but I feel like it's not that far out there.

Oh and maybe the reason why Edge and Shaun get no offers is that one has over 9000 yards on him and the other is closing on 8000 yards. Right now it's a legitimate question to wonder how much tread is left on those tires. Who wants to be the guy who's going to pay either one of these players big bank to watch them sputter out like Emmitt in Arizona?

Ricky Williams got the Saints some good compensation when he was up on the trade block but then he didn't have that many miles on him.

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 01:43 PM
I would hope that if we traded the #1 pick we would get more than one other pick in the first 3 rounds because right now we have 4 picks in the top 66.
Just trading down from #1 to #3 should get us an additional 2nd round pick

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 01:55 PM
Wow, you really feel strongly about this issue and about this player. Hey, I understand that and I can tell it's genuine. I'm going to reply but it's just talk and I'm just putting my case out there. The more points of view the better if you get my drift.

Yes, there's no denying that we had the worst offense and defense in football last year and I'd be a fool to argue otherwise. We did see that Antwaan Peek wasn't all he was cracked up to be and our edge rusher is still non-existent. I'm going to lay Babin on the coaches though since the only thing I've ever heard about where that decision came from was that Capers and Fangio wanted him. I'm not saying that's the truth, just that it's all I have to go on. Now following last season you were talking about how Babin had a pretty fair rookie season and how "tweeners" took time to develop. Now this year the reports are that he was injured so I can't completely come down on him for his lack of development this season.

Our cornerback is a good one but it sure would be nice if we had a pair of them. The Buchanon deal is a case where even I cannot say that Casserly did a good job, or even an adequat job. That one is a mystery to me.

On offense though I have to take issue with the "worst line in the NFL" statement, I'm not saying they aren't the worst line in the NFL of course. I'm saying that if they are then don't you have to allow for that when you note that our QB has never thrown for a combined 2TD’s plus 201 yards in a victory in 60 NFL starts? I'm assuming you're not calling them the worst line in the NFL because of their run blocking right? Domanick Davis gets his thousand yards a year for the most part and both Wells and Morency can run behind this line. It's got to be the pass protection that you are talking about and if that's true then surely you have to admit that some of the shortcomings we all see in David Carr must be laid at their feet.

Not all of course. No, I don't believe that David Carr is flawless or without room for improvement. That would be pretty silly to suggest. I'm saying that you're talking about throwing Vince Young behind the "worst line in the NFL" because David Carr has played poorly behind the "worst line in the NFL". That one runs in circles in your head doesn't it?

As for the TE situation you cannot possibly suggest that Bennie Joppru and his three straight season ending injuries could have been predicted. Granted of course that a move should have been made to realistically address the void left by his departure.




Yes and we drafted Domanick Davis in the fourth round and he's done pretty much what we expected Stacey Mack to do. He neither excels nor does he embarass. He just gets the job done "well enough" until another back can be found to improve the position. Tony Hollings was supposed to improve the position. I guess Vernand Morency was too. Jonathan Wells was about the same caliber as Davis though in a different mold and a much slower starter. Dime a dozen these guys are.



Did James Allen even try to get a job in the NFL after he left here? He wanted to be a rapper if I'm not mistaken. I honestly don't remember if I heard tell of him trying to make another squad or not. I know that he saw the writing on the wall and was out of here. Why wouldn't he be. We had just signed Stacey Mack and much of the talk prior to 2003 was about how Allen and Wells were losers who wouldn't make it out of training camp. I know you remember that.



Did he ever even challenge for a starting spot? I don't remember him all that well but I do remember the name. I seem to recall him being with the Jaguars for a very short time following his year here. Oh well, you win some you lose some right? James Posey stood out while Keith Mitchell faded out.



You got me on that one. To this very day I find myself thinking "WTF, where did the little chubby dude come from" when I look at a game from that season. That is of course when he was on the field. I think that outside of our clear starters Casserly has brought in some good linebackers (Posey, Foley) and some bad ones (Mitchell, Clemons) and to date we haven't had a defense that knew what to do with them or how to tell them apart.



Another 2002 alumnus. You were more forgiving of them back in the day. Now they are evidence that Casserly has never know what he was doing? Matt Stevens played here long enough for us to find someone to take his place. That was explanation enough for me. Granted I thought Marlon McCree should have been that guy and that it should have happened a lot sooner but that's water under the bridge. Matt Stevens sucked, I'll agree with you there willingly.



I got the impression that Victor Riley was brought in to replace Marcus Spears who was, for all intents and purposes no more than someone to practice against. Joe Pendry is the one that decided to replace Seth Wand with Victor Riley. Now that I think about it Joe Pendry was the one who decided that it was time to replace Chester Pitts with Seth Wand. Hmmm, I think we're on to something here. I wonder what would have happened if Chester Pitts had stayed at LT following the Texans 36 sack season?

We'll never know. You know I consider the offensive lines shortcomings to be primarily the result of scheme and coaching so no sense going back over that.



2002 alumnus and I've already said my piece on Texans linebackers so you know what I'm going to say about this. No point in retyping it all.



McKinney was again a 2002 team member. An original free agent signing from back in the "long ago time". Sure he should be cut now and it's time we found a real center but we got what we could get back in 2002. What can I say, we needed some veteran linemen and nobody was giving them out for free.



Now we get to it. The straw that really did break the Camels back. The Buchanon trade was indefensible and solidly on the side of things Charlie Casserly has screwed up. We're still mostly burning about this one and if any one thing runs Casserly out of town it's going to be this one. More than anything it haunts him and he carries the blame for it. He can say that Capers wanted Babin and so he made the deal and we're all inclined to let him have that one. Buchanon he can't shift to anybody. It's become synonymous with him.

I hate like hell that we traded those picks for Phillip Buchanon. Honestly If I were an NFL GM I'd refuse to answer the phone when the Raiders were calling. It just seems like we always get the "muddy" end of that stick.



I don't hold it against Casserly that he offered Bradford a very reasonable contract. I do hold it against the coaching staff here that Bradford started for us for 16 weeks. I found that incomprehensible with the other receivers we had on our roster. That was a coaching decision though. Bradford, it was reported had the best camp of his career last year so maybe they made the right choice. People bring guys into camp all the time who don't make it to opening day. I blame the coaches here.



That bunch of roster moves goes from one end of the spectrum to another so I can't address them all with one answer. All of them IMO should still be here and I'm at a loss as to why they are not. I don't think that it's possible to lay each and every one of their cases at Charlie Casserly's feet though and I don't think you really believe that either. The GM by himself doesn't just walk down to the Head Coaches office and tell him that he's running these guys off whether Dom likes it or not. He doesn't let those guys go without some input from the coaches who work with those players.

All of the guys you mention there are on defense where the Texans have traditionally had the most "slip ups" when it came to players getting vocal with their complaints and frustrations. I think there's something to that. The very vocal complaints you've seen in our defensive players also have led to guys like Jeff Posey signing a deal the moment it was possible, just like Steve Foley did. Good players who could ran like hell from Vic Fangios defense. Other guys who could like Sharper and Glenn didn't make any bones about bailing when the opportunity presented itself. Bad players like Jay Foreman were upset by being let go but the good ones leave without a second thought. You think it's lack of faith in the system and coaching or do you think it's a deep seated dislike of the GM here?



Well the Steelers proved years later that Tommy Maddox just might have been a franchise QB so maybe he was on to something. I'm not sure how Reeves was going to make Maddox a franchise QB in Denver when he was right smack dab in the middle of John Elways career but hey, the man can dream right? Kubiak I think had split to San Francisco by the time Maddox came to town but I might be wrong about that. Regardless he'd be in his first year as an assistant of some sort so I don't know if I'd expect him to be creating franchise QB's just yet. Everything takes time.




Maybe not. Maybe we'd be talking about our first wildcard game or something. Or maybe we did have a better QB here but did a lousy job of developing him. It's not impossible. Why can't David Carr do what Jake Plummer did? Why can't he turn a corner and improve with better coaching and more weapons? I can accept that Reggie Bush isn't necessary. If we do hire Kubiak I want Bush because that offensive system can have any back plugged into it BUT it gets even better when you plug a guy like Bush into it. I also think that if Kubiak wants to trade down and get some better linemen or fix some defense that's ok too. I see Vince Young as a complete waste of that pick though and I think that unless he proves me wrong I always will.

This is one of those times when I wish I could fast forward life to see what these two QB's are doing three years from now. Despite what I said at the start of this long post I'm an impatient man and always have been. For some reason though I'm not impatient about the Texans right now. I think that they've let go of the people they needed to and that the team is better than it seems. Hopeless optimism? Maybe but I feel like it's not that far out there.
Why can't David Carr do what Jake Plummer did? Why can't he turn a corner and improve with better coaching and more weapons? I can accept that Reggie Bush isn't necessary. If we do hire Kubiak I want Bush because that offensive system can have any back plugged into it BUT it gets even better when you plug a guy like Bush into it. I also think that if Kubiak wants to trade down and get some better linemen or fix some defense that's ok too. I see Vince Young as a complete waste of that pick though and I think that unless he proves me wrong I always will.


Totally Agreed. This whole thing is a work in progress and drafting VY would require us starting over, both due to cap implications and personeel limitations.

Woops, sorry about the long quote, I ment to only include part of the post.

El Tejano
01-09-2006, 01:58 PM
I don't have a problem with him or what he's done. The fans hated Ladd too but the team he drafted won a lot of games and the people loved that. The football fans are rarely the guys you want to go to for insightful decisions on player personnel. You know that Vinny.

People can say it wasn't just "one game" all they want but where was this outpouring of demand for Vince Young prior to that one game? It didn't exist. It literally did not exist so regardless of what anybody says this is about the Rose Bowl and what Vince Young showed there. Sure there were a handful of people who were dreaming of getting him but their posts and reasonings were, for the most part irrational UT fan rambles which mirrored the "Reggie Bush WILL RULE!" crowd.

It's about one game and if taking Reggie Bush was a risky and unnecessary pick before that game then taking Vince Young is twice that now. Elise Lanier is a nice lady. I just don't think the Texans pick VY (or send Casserly packing) because she's upset over his statement. We don't need a QB. We need to see what Gary Kubiak (if that holds true) can do with the one we have on our roster right now.
We didn't know Vince would go to the draft. The Rose Bowl is what influenced VINCE to come tot he draft.

El Tejano
01-09-2006, 02:03 PM
Totally Agreed. This whole thing is a work in progress and drafting VY would require us starting over, both due to cap implications and personeel limitations.

Woops, sorry about the long quote, I ment to only include part of the post.
We went from 7-9 to 2-14. Sorry to say but this team started over before the season started when Cass let too many people go.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 02:08 PM
I''ve got to agree. It is about one game. That RoseBowl game that Wednesday night. If it weren't for that one game, no one would be talking about drafting Vince this year. That game changed a lot, it did for me anyway. I've been a VinceYoung fan since last years Rose Bowl, and I followed him, and was amazed by him all year. But it was that one game, that put away any notion, that the kid would be going back to school next year. After watching that game, I knew without a doubt, that he would declare for the draft. I knew it, and everyone who saw the game new it. The kid is ready.

The only thing I could agree on was that there are a bunch of uniformed fans on this board who saw Young for the 1st time last week. This kind of explaination has got me really baffled now...unless you are making the whole "last year's Rose Bowl" thing up. Did you happen to catch the comeback at "The Horseshoe" or the giant comeback against Ok-State since last year's Rose Bowl?? Its like me saying Bush is overhyped because of one bad game...thank God for scouts. For the last time...before last week VY was "intending" to go back to school!!!! Yes this one game changed his mind so now there is a debate. Had he said last season was going to be his final season at the beginning of the season this issue would have been debated all year...PERIOD! You would have seen "We Want VY" signs all over the place throughout the year.

And why does this argument always turn into an athletic debate? Carr, Bush, and VY are great athletes. Is anyone saying Carr is a bad athlete? Its not about athletic ability...its about rings!!! If we are eventually in a championship game or Super Bowl and are 2 TDs behind at halftime who would you want handling the ball in the second half...VY, Bush, or Carr? The better question might be who don't you want handling the ball? Athletic ability alone does not win big games...ask M.Vick. This is why the VY/Vick comparison is so retarded.

I hate to think that in 5 years this debate may finally rest and "The curse of VY" will soon begin. Regardless of what happens this has the potential to get really nasty over the years if the Texans don't start contending pretty quick...

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 02:09 PM
Who would you rather have calling the shots besides CC? No, Vinny you may not apply for the job. Looking at teams with supposedly "great" personnel people their draft results don't stand out much more than the Texans. Look at the picks of the Colts, Patriots, and Denver from the past draft:

Indianapolis
1. (29) Marlin Jackson, CB Michigan
2. (60) Kelvin Hayden, CB Illinois
3. (92) Vincent Burns, DE Kentucky
4. (129) Dylan Gandy, OG Texas Tech
4. (135) Matt Giordano, S California
5. (148) Jonathan Welsh, DE Wisconsin
5. (165) Robert Hunt, OL North Dakota State
5. (173) Tyjuan Hagler, OLB Cincinnati
6. (202) Dave Rayner, PK Michigan State
7. (243) Anthony Davis, RB Wisconsin

New England
1. (32) Logan Mankins, OG Fresno State
3. (84) Ellis Hobbs, CB Iowa State
3. (100) Nick Kaczur, OT Toledo
4. (133) James Sanders, DB Fresno State
5. (170) Ryan Claridge, LB Nevada-Las Vegas
7. (230) Matt Cassel, QB USC
7. (255) Andy Stokes, TE William & Penn

Denver
2. (56) Darrent Williams, CB Oklahoma State
3. (76) Karl Paymah, CB Washington State
3. (97) Domonique Foxworth, CB Maryland
3. (101) Maurice Clarett, RB Ohio State
6. (200) Chris Myers, OG Miami (Fla)
7. (239) Paul Ernster, PK Northern Arizona

A couple of highlights- MAURICE CLARETT!!! we may want to be sure Kubiak didn't have any role in that waste of a pick. Also note the Pats took 2 O-linemen in the first 3 rounds- both are starting as the LEFT side of their line during this playoff run (scouting masterpiece or good coaching?). And I don't remember hearing much of anything from Indy's rookies. Maybe that's because they already had a team from their last 50 or so years in existence.

Be mad at CC all you want, but be careful what the alternatives are. I didn't even bring up Matt Millen's draft choices- I don't want CC to look like some kind of genius.

SteelBlueToro
01-09-2006, 02:16 PM
We didn't know Vince would go to the draft. The Rose Bowl is what influenced VINCE to come tot he draft.
So one game should make the Texans scrap 4 years? Granted, the team regressed last year - but it is a little extreme to throw 4 years out because of 1 player's performance in 1 game (against the nation's 39th ranked defense I might add).

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 02:20 PM
So one game should make the Texans scrap 4 years? Granted, the team regressed last year - but it is a little extreme to throw 4 years out because of 1 player's performance in 1 game (against the nation's 39th ranked defense I might add).

...and what was Ohio State's defense rated?

tulexan
01-09-2006, 02:22 PM
Troy Smith barely played in the Ohio State game and Justin Zwick was pathetic.

I don't think that Texas could beat the Ohio State team that just won the Fiesta Bowl.

SteelBlueToro
01-09-2006, 02:25 PM
...and what was Ohio State's defense rated?
Probably high ranked defense, so I will give you that one. BUT the ROSE BOWL is supposedly when the "second coming" was born. FRESNO STATE put 40+ on USC.

SteelBlueToro
01-09-2006, 02:25 PM
Troy Smith barely played in the Ohio State game and Justin Zwick was pathetic.

I don't think that Texas could beat the Ohio State team that just won the Fiesta Bowl.
No they couldn't

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 02:27 PM
Troy Smith barely played in the Ohio State game and Justin Zwick was pathetic.

I don't think that Texas could beat the Ohio State team that just won the Fiesta Bowl.


Your missing the point, he scored points against a top defense when it mattered most in the most hostile enviornment imaginable. This is what so many people seem to be overlooking. I admit they would of had there hands full with Troy Smith, but scoreboard is "scoreboard" and VY entered the draft...

TheOgre
01-09-2006, 02:30 PM
Troy Smith barely played in the Ohio State game and Justin Zwick was pathetic.

I don't think that Texas could beat the Ohio State team that just won the Fiesta Bowl.

I don't think that Texas team would necessarily win AT OHIO STATE the way both teams were playing at the end. I think that Texas would win most of the time at home or in a neutral site against that Ohio State team though.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 02:30 PM
Probably high ranked defense, so I will give you that one. BUT the ROSE BOWL is supposedly when the "second coming" was born. FRESNO STATE put 40+ on USC.

Funny, I thought last year's Rose Bowl was VY's coming out party...now its this year's...what next, the Superbowl in those old Oiler colors? Yikes!

tulexan
01-09-2006, 02:34 PM
Your missing the point, he scored points against a top defense when it mattered most in the most hostile enviornment imaginable. This is what so many people seem to be overlooking. I admit they would of had there hands full with Troy Smith, but scoreboard is "scoreboard" and VY entered the draft...

If I'm missing the point, then what is the point? That scoring against a tough defense in a hard environment is more important than the win? Because if Troy Smith played in that game, and Texas lost but Vince played well what does that prove? Isn't that the same as David Carr having a good game but his defense couldn't get it done? Which is what happened in many of our losses.

The Dream
01-09-2006, 02:34 PM
I swear I wanted to hop through that t.v. screen and slap the piss outta Cass last night........he seems so stubborn and cold.......if they pass up on Vince, I personally hope the Titans draft him so he can kick our *** for the remainder of his career and so this franchise and their stupid front office personal can be haunted for the rest of their lives.......and I'm serious.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 02:43 PM
If I'm missing the point, then what is the point? That scoring against a tough defense in a hard environment is more important than the win? Because if Troy Smith played in that game, and Texas lost but Vince played well what does that prove? Isn't that the same as David Carr having a good game but his defense couldn't get it done? Which is what happened in many of our losses.

Let me guess, you probably picked USC over TX this year too? I'm speaking about what "did" happen and you are assuming what "might" have happened.

I just want rings man!! If we extend Carr's deal, bring Bush, and win rings I will be on cloud 9! If we don't and VY wins rings for the Titans (of all teams) I will just puke all over myself and McNair will catch crap that he really does not deserve. I think that's what most are freaking out over...if you have been a footballl fan in Houston for a while you should be able to relate...this is a frightening scenerio regardless of what happens and trying to debate its not is foolish.

texan279
01-09-2006, 02:45 PM
I swear I wanted to hop through that t.v. screen and slap the piss outta Cass last night........he seems so stubborn and cold.......if they pass up on Vince, I personally hope the Titans draft him so he can kick our *** for the remainder of his career and so this franchise and their stupid front office personal can be haunted for the rest of their lives.......and I'm serious.

That's right. Wish losses for our team to punish the front office because we passed on Young. Sounds like a Young fan not a Texan fan...

tulexan
01-09-2006, 02:46 PM
You still didn't answer my question. If I'm missing the point, then what is it?

I don't want to hear about how upset you will be if Vince plays well for the Titans. If they lost against Ohio State, but Vince played well, how is that different from all of the games where David played well, but the team still lost?

Big B Texan Fan
01-09-2006, 02:48 PM
So one game should make the Texans scrap 4 years? Granted, the team regressed last year - but it is a little extreme to throw 4 years out because of 1 player's performance in 1 game (against the nation's 39th ranked defense I might add).
Look here Bitter Cat-
You're making it sound like VY had his 1st good game last Wed. He was a local HS stud, only lost 1 game last year and none this year. I'm sure you're one of those UT haters cuz you go to another TX school but c'mon, lay off it.
And quit comparing what guys will equivilate to in the NFL due to the D's they face in college. It's an unfair comparison. Would you say that the SEC is the toughst Conference in the NCAA, then if so then should NFL teams only pick QB's from the SEC. What about McNown. I'm sure all you Cats fans were hyped when he threw that winning TD against the Vikes to keep them out of the playoffs a couple seasons ago and then got the starting job the season after.
As for the 4 years we've invested in the team, I assume you're talking about Carr. Usually when you replace your coaching staff and wind up with the 1st pick in the draft, you usually draft a QB. Especially if the one you got has 150+ sax on his sack-dometer and missed no time with injuries. Especially if the freakiest ath/qb is available and happens to be a hometown product. What more do you want?

The Dream
01-09-2006, 02:52 PM
That's right. Wish losses for our team to punish the front office because we passed on Young. Sounds like a Young fan not a Texan fan...


Look I am a Texans fan and as a fan I want to see us take the best player, when my team makes stupid moves why should I support them as a fan?.....I'm just so frustrated with CC right now.....I have nothing against the players, but I have a problem with our hard headed GM.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 03:01 PM
Look I am a Texans fan and as a fan I want to see us take the best player, when my team makes stupid moves why should I support them as a fan?.....I'm just so frustrated with CC right now.....I have nothing against the players, but I have a problem with our hard headed GM.

You want us to take who you think is the best player. What if their scouts, coach, and GM believe that he isn't.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 03:01 PM
Look here Bitter Cat-
You're making it sound like VY had his 1st good game last Wed. He was a local HS stud, only lost 1 game last year and none this year. I'm sure you're one of those UT haters cuz you go to another TX school but c'mon, lay off it.
And quit comparing what guys will equivilate to in the NFL due to the D's they face in college. It's an unfair comparison. Would you say that the SEC is the toughst Conference in the NCAA, then if so then should NFL teams only pick QB's from the SEC. What about McNown. I'm sure all you Cats fans were hyped when he threw that winning TD against the Vikes to keep them out of the playoffs a couple seasons ago and then got the starting job the season after.
As for the 4 years we've invested in the team, I assume you're talking about Carr. Usually when you replace your coaching staff and wind up with the 1st pick in the draft, you usually draft a QB. Especially if the one you got has 150+ sax on his sack-dometer and missed no time with injuries. Especially if the freakiest ath/qb is available and happens to be a hometown product. What more do you want?

Its pointless bro. The sky is blue and yet so many want a detailed explanation as to why its blue. There are no Cliff's Notes on VY, Bush, or Carr. Do the research and figure it out for yourselves people...

The Dream
01-09-2006, 03:04 PM
You want us to take who you think is the best player. What if their scouts, coach, and GM believe that he isn't.


Sorry but I don't have the slightest bit of confidence in Cass, with the decisions he's made as GM thus far.......he seems like a stubborn, brain dead GM, who should be making decisions for an arena football team.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 03:05 PM
So if Casserly agrees with what scouts, Dan Reeves, Gary Kubiak, and other talent evaluators across the league say, that it is still the wrong decision?

Porky
01-09-2006, 03:07 PM
CC has a vested interest in seeing his boy make good. Mcnair has screwed the pooch again. His heart is in the right place, but he needs to pull his head out of his a** and get with it, or we will be looking at 4th place finishes for a long time. I don't want to be the Bengals of the AFC South. He should have dumped Cass in the bloodletting and started clean. It is a huge mistake to have holdovers who may have a personal interest in seeing that certain players remain. A whole new regime was the way to go. Yet ANOTHER major screwup by Mcnair. Cass has earned the right to be canned, and nothing more.

As to Young, I have been on his jock all year. I just didn't think he was coming out. Whatever happened to these lenghty debates that he wouldn't even be drafted as a QB in the NFL? He will go to the Titans and will haunt this franchise for the next 15 years. So be it.

Another thing that bothered me last night was Cass was saying that we won't be active in FA. So forget about Bentley or any other premium FA. Thanks for another great offseason Cass. :brickwall

Toxicology
01-09-2006, 03:08 PM
This is a longish post, but I really wanted to get some feedback on my points (that I'm sure others have discussed to some degree.)

1. IMO, the new coaching staff will have more impact on the Texans from a W-L perspective in 2006. If Bob McNair is being realistic, 6-7 wins for 2006 is the goal. The new coaching staff can probably get there, regardless of whether we get Young or Bush. Switch to the 4-3. Run DD and Morency behind the Denver Bronco's line. That's enough for 6 to 7 wins. Shoot, the 2005 team should have won 4-5 games.

2. Then who to chose, VY or Bush? What to do with Carr? The best way for Bob McNair to hedge his bets is to pick up the 2 year option on Carr and draft VY. In 2006, Carr gets one last shot to show what he's got. While he's doing that, VY is learning and the fans aren't going beserk. The team wins 6-7 games, the fans aren't angry b/c VY is waiting in the wings. After a 2-14 debacle, 6-7 wins is ok.

3. What's worse for Carr? Draft VY and the fans boo every time Carr throws an incompletion, chanting VY's name? OR, let VY go Tennessee and the fans will boo every time Carr throws a bad pass. It's the same. The only difference is that the fans won't be upset at the team if VY is here.

4. Doesn't McNair want an "impact player"? Yes, but see point 1 above. Bush won't have that much of an "impact" from a W-L standpoint. (my opinion). Bush's impact would be from a gate/fan interest standpoing. VY kicks bush's *** in that category.

5. Fast forward to mid or end 2006: At that point, You know a lot more about Carr's ability, you have insight on VY's progress.

Here are the possibilities for 2006:

A. Let's say Carr takes a huge step forward and you are faced with dealing VY. The rest of the world doesn't know squat about Vince's progress and he is still hot property. In next year's draft, it is entirely conceivable that you could package VY and our first round pick for Adrian Petersen. No stretch whatsoever. In 2007, you have a polished Carr and Adrian Petersen. Yeah, that doesn't stink. I'll go on record right now and say that Adrian Petersen's NFL career will crush Reggie Bush's (and I hate OU). What about angering the fan base? Well, if Carr is proving to be the guy, the fans will understand a lot better than if McNair declines to draft VY now, before anyone knows whether Carr will ever live up to his "potential".

B. Alternatively, let's say Carr improves, but not much, and VY is progressing. You are faced with trading Carr for a 3rd rounder. So, in 2007, you start VY, DD/Morency. Under this assumption though (that Carr doesn't improve much in 2006 under the new staff), thank goodness you didn't pick Bush instead of VY. IMO, A mediocre Carr plus Bush is probably not good enough to get into the playoffs, certainly not enough to unseat Indy, and certainly not enough to win it all. Even if Bush becomes an elite running back. Remember, Indy has Manning, James and Harrison - Mannign being the most important piece. Assuming that Bush becomes an elite rusher (and not Eric Metcalf, Rocket Ismail or Desmond Howard), we'd have James and Harrison, but no Manning. A 2nd year VY has the potential to push us into the playoffs. No lock to do so, but potential with a high upside.

C. Alternatively, Carr doesn't improve, and VY looks clueless, and Bush was Rookie of the Year with 1,400 yards rushing. We'd be better off with Carr and Bush, but we could still deal VY. Nobody else knows that VY can't get the job done. This is our worst case scenario, but the down side is controlled.

In short, by taking BY, you delay the QB decision, control the downside risk, take the path with the highest upside, and enable yourself to make the decision based on much more information -- all at little or no cost to the franchise in terms of Wins and Losses and fan base.

Marcus
01-09-2006, 03:09 PM
Dream

Do you actually believe that the decision regarding the 1st pick will be Casserly's? Tell me that you don't actually believe that . . . please!

profan
01-09-2006, 03:11 PM
Cass. has been about average in the draft. Been terrible in free agency. Getting rid of glen and sharper was a disaster. Missed on a few draft picks,, but nothing major. We will be in good shape after this years draft no matter who we take, but i truly believe vince young will be the best choice for this team in the long run. Our rushing offense was pretty good this past year, but, our passing was terrible. Take Young, but we will be should win either way, just like our chances better with Young.

BREAZE
01-09-2006, 03:11 PM
So if Casserly agrees with what scouts, Dan Reeves, Gary Kubiak, and other talent evaluators across the league say, that it is still the wrong decision?
If VY wins a ring for a divisional team within 5 years or just keeps us out off the playoffs year in and year out would Casserly have made the right decision? It goes both ways. The fear is his ego "could" be making the decisions now...

FILO_girl
01-09-2006, 03:23 PM
Look I am a Texans fan and as a fan I want to see us take the best player, when my team makes stupid moves why should I support them as a fan?.....I'm just so frustrated with CC right now.....I have nothing against the players, but I have a problem with our hard headed GM.

MANY of us have a problem with Casserly. Mention his name and my BP goes to the roof! I start talking like a sailor (some words I didn't know I knew). The man is poison to our organization, but until Bob sees it...he is here. We have to deal with it. I still think Dan Reeves is here for a reason not given yet. :whistle:

Look at it this way, for those of us who don't care for http://www.texanstalk.com/yabbfiles/Smilies/beatcass.gif to be our GM, use this time proactively.
Let's plan his going away party! It has to come soon! :redtowel:


PS to Khari- can you add Charley to our collection? :)

mamoo
01-09-2006, 04:10 PM
The show was taped Saturday prior to any glimpse of Young's announcement.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 04:13 PM
Actually Bob Allen referred to Vince Young declaring in the show and even if it was taped before the actual announcement, it was common knowledge that he was declaring that morning.

The Dream
01-09-2006, 04:15 PM
Dream

Do you actually believe that the decision regarding the 1st pick will be Casserly's? Tell me that you don't actually believe that . . . please!


I know McNair will have a say so in it, but it doesn't help that CC has a man crush on David Carr.

Coach C.
01-09-2006, 04:17 PM
I know McNair will have a say so in it, but it doesn't help that CC has a man crush on David Carr.
VY supporters, please list for me VY's stats, intangibles, and mannerisms that make him you all's top prospect. Nothing emotional would be great.

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 04:17 PM
I know McNair will have a say so in it, but it doesn't help that CC has a man crush on David Carr.

You got a direct line to Kettle there Pot? Maybe you and Vince can double date with Charlie and Carr?

chuckm
01-09-2006, 04:24 PM
You got a direct line to Kettle there Pot? Maybe you and Vince can double date with Charlie and Carr?


hey Dream ..... don't reply .... you're overmatched

The Dream
01-09-2006, 04:28 PM
You got a direct line to Kettle there Pot? Maybe you and Vince can double date with Charlie and Carr?

Who in the hell says that I'm jocking VY, all I'm doing is mentioning the obvious things that the man can do, why you guys sit here and rejoice over our pretty boy QB who has done nothing in 4 years.

mamoo
01-09-2006, 04:36 PM
Actually Bob did not mention that he declared since he didn't even know Vince was going to make his announcement when the show was taped. It made for a nice panic attack Sunday morning when the news broke out. But the message is still the same either way. The Texans want to win now, not later. QB's take time to learn the pro game. RB's don't. It's really that simple. We'll have another Bush in Texas.

abbest
01-09-2006, 04:37 PM
This is a longish post, but I really wanted to get some feedback on my points (that I'm sure others have discussed to some degree.)

1. IMO, the new coaching staff will have more impact on the Texans from a W-L perspective in 2006. If Bob McNair is being realistic, 6-7 wins for 2006 is the goal. The new coaching staff can probably get there, regardless of whether we get Young or Bush. Switch to the 4-3. Run DD and Morency behind the Denver Bronco's line. That's enough for 6 to 7 wins. Shoot, the 2005 team should have won 4-5 games.

2. Then who to chose, VY or Bush? What to do with Carr? The best way for Bob McNair to hedge his bets is to pick up the 2 year option on Carr and draft VY. In 2006, Carr gets one last shot to show what he's got. While he's doing that, VY is learning and the fans aren't going beserk. The team wins 6-7 games, the fans aren't angry b/c VY is waiting in the wings. After a 2-14 debacle, 6-7 wins is ok.

3. What's worse for Carr? Draft VY and the fans boo every time Carr throws an incompletion, chanting VY's name? OR, let VY go Tennessee and the fans will boo every time Carr throws a bad pass. It's the same. The only difference is that the fans won't be upset at the team if VY is here.

4. Doesn't McNair want an "impact player"? Yes, but see point 1 above. Bush won't have that much of an "impact" from a W-L standpoint. (my opinion). Bush's impact would be from a gate/fan interest standpoing. VY kicks bush's *** in that category.

5. Fast forward to mid or end 2006: At that point, You know a lot more about Carr's ability, you have insight on VY's progress.

Here are the possibilities for 2006:

A. Let's say Carr takes a huge step forward and you are faced with dealing VY. The rest of the world doesn't know squat about Vince's progress and he is still hot property. In next year's draft, it is entirely conceivable that you could package VY and our first round pick for Adrian Petersen. No stretch whatsoever. In 2007, you have a polished Carr and Adrian Petersen. Yeah, that doesn't stink. I'll go on record right now and say that Adrian Petersen's NFL career will crush Reggie Bush's (and I hate OU). What about angering the fan base? Well, if Carr is proving to be the guy, the fans will understand a lot better than if McNair declines to draft VY now, before anyone knows whether Carr will ever live up to his "potential".

B. Alternatively, let's say Carr improves, but not much, and VY is progressing. You are faced with trading Carr for a 3rd rounder. So, in 2007, you start VY, DD/Morency. Under this assumption though (that Carr doesn't improve much in 2006 under the new staff), thank goodness you didn't pick Bush instead of VY. IMO, A mediocre Carr plus Bush is probably not good enough to get into the playoffs, certainly not enough to unseat Indy, and certainly not enough to win it all. Even if Bush becomes an elite running back. Remember, Indy has Manning, James and Harrison - Mannign being the most important piece. Assuming that Bush becomes an elite rusher (and not Eric Metcalf, Rocket Ismail or Desmond Howard), we'd have James and Harrison, but no Manning. A 2nd year VY has the potential to push us into the playoffs. No lock to do so, but potential with a high upside.

C. Alternatively, Carr doesn't improve, and VY looks clueless, and Bush was Rookie of the Year with 1,400 yards rushing. We'd be better off with Carr and Bush, but we could still deal VY. Nobody else knows that VY can't get the job done. This is our worst case scenario, but the down side is controlled.

In short, by taking BY, you delay the QB decision, control the downside risk, take the path with the highest upside, and enable yourself to make the decision based on much more information -- all at little or no cost to the franchise in terms of Wins and Losses and fan base.makes a lot of sense to me I `ll buy that

The Dream
01-09-2006, 04:37 PM
We'll have another Bush in Texas.

Oh boy :cool:

Hervoyel
01-09-2006, 04:49 PM
Who in the hell says that I'm jocking VY


You, in big letters about a quarter mile high with every post you've made in the last two or three days.

It's no biggie. "Wordem" has you beat by a mile. He's announced his man-crush in rhinestone letters a thousand feet high. His posts are like QB porn or something.

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 05:13 PM
Cass. has been about average in the draft. Been terrible in free agency. Getting rid of glen and sharper was a disaster. Missed on a few draft picks,, but nothing major. We will be in good shape after this years draft no matter who we take, but i truly believe vince young will be the best choice for this team in the long run. Our rushing offense was pretty good this past year, but, our passing was terrible. Take Young, but we will be should win either way, just like our chances better with Young.
Didn't Sharper blow out his knee and likely end his career? Wasn't that Aaron Glenn giving up a 70 yd TD pass to Moss of the NY Jets with only minutes to play, thus losing the game? They are both older and closer to retirement than providing any meaningful contributions on the field. I'm begining to wonder if CC knew this season would be a wash with the same pathetic coaching staff and tried to dump salary and age (are you listening Gary Walker?) to made us leaner in the future.

HoustonFrog
01-09-2006, 05:20 PM
Didn't Sharper blow out his knee and likely end his career? Wasn't that Aaron Glenn giving up a 70 yd TD pass to Moss of the NY Jets with only minutes to play, thus losing the game? They are both older and closer to retirement than providing any meaningful contributions on the field. I'm begining to wonder if CC knew this season would be a wash with the same pathetic coaching staff and tried to dump salary and age (are you listening Gary Walker?) to made us leaner in the future.

One play does not a CB make. Glenn also sealed their Charger win and started the second half of the year when Henry went down. He did a great job. I believe it was more Roy not getting there at the safety spot by the way. He was a leader. Again, lacking on this team.

GoBlue
01-09-2006, 05:25 PM
One play does not a CB make. Glenn also sealed their Charger win and started the second half of the year when Henry went down. He did a great job. I believe it was more Roy not getting there at the safety spot by the way. He was a leader. Again, lacking on this team.
clearly Glenn would have been much better than P-Buc this year. I just don't know if it would have been worth big money to keep him for another year or 2. Hopefully we draft a decent corner in the 2nd or 3rd round, 'cause Petey is a nickel back PERIOD.

The Dream
01-09-2006, 05:51 PM
You, in big letters about a quarter mile high with every post you've made in the last two or three days.

Dude, me saying that Vince is a leader, winner, having untapped potential is not jocking.......it's just the flat out truth.

cuppacoffee
01-09-2006, 06:56 PM
You got that right. When a school has their own network contract they have an unfair advantage. Not quite sure how that is allowed.

By remaining an independent. Not real sure how that is an unfair advantage in the Heisman. NBC doesn't vote. They just broadcast all the Irish home games so that all the Irish fans can watch their team.


:coffee:

GP
01-09-2006, 07:40 PM
"...It's no biggie. "Wordem" has you beat by a mile. He's announced his man-crush in rhinestone letters a thousand feet high. His posts are like QB porn or something." -- hervoyel

----------------------

Ouch.

Gets my vote for the "call-out" post of the week. Nice one.

Someone else said it best: "Makes you think Casserly knew this season was a wash and so he went ahead and cut dead weight (Sharper and Glenn)..."

I love how Casserly is the biggest "fraud" of all but yet he's somehow still here after Capers got royally booted. Of course, for those same Casserly-haters they don't recognize that McNair is capable of separating out who's responsible for what around here.

I've said it, and I'll say it again: If anything, Casserly should be congratulated for at least gaining us some players (almost exclusively in the draft) who we will can still utilize with our new coaching staff and whatever system they will employ. Capers' 3-4 style, as Dunta put it himself, was out of whack with the type of players he was putting in certain spots within the 3-4. And I think Capers' and Pendry's style of offense was also a mis-match with our players. Imagine Casserly saddled with the burden of tyring to get whomever Capers wanted but also knowing that Capers is probably history after the 2005 season anyway! That's called doing the best with what ya' got.

tulexan
01-09-2006, 07:43 PM
By remaining an independent. Not real sure how that is an unfair advantage in the Heisman. NBC doesn't vote. They just broadcast all the Irish home games so that all the Irish fans can watch their team.


:coffee:


You gotta respect Notre Dame. You never see them scheduling teams like Appalachain State and Louisiana Lafayette. They generally have pretty tough schedules.

Tulip
01-10-2006, 12:11 AM
I am so late to this party, but I just had to comment about the interview last night.

Casserly was playing word games.

I saved it on Tivo, so I'll watch it again tomorrow, but that was my impression watching live last night.

GP
01-10-2006, 12:18 AM
Most definitely he is playing word games.

I don't even have to see the tape.

It's typical stuff: A lot of generalities and the ever-important cliff hanger of what he DIDN'T say. Talking in circles, leaving himself wiggle room for the day when Carr gets told that he's been TRADED.

I'm in the "trade the pick and get the 'Brick" camp, and yet I somehow feel that this will end up with us taking Young or Bush at No. 1.

tulexan
01-10-2006, 12:20 AM
I am so late to this party, but I just had to comment about the interview last night.

Casserly was playing word games.

I saved it on Tivo, so I'll watch it again tomorrow, but that was my impression watching live last night.


If it makes you sleep easier at night, then you can think that.

keyfro
01-10-2006, 12:27 AM
well i think we have all just about had it with casserly...IMO he deserved to be fired last offseason when he stated that our three main needs were OL, TE, and a #2 WR...what did he give us...no TE help, victor riley, and re-signed dropford...he passed on muhammid, burriss, and mason as recievers...at the very least we should have picked up one of the recievers...kept aaron glenn and not traded for p-buc...with the 2nd and 3rd rounders going to the other needs that the team needed

now we have a chance to correct a lot of the mistakes done last year with this year's draft and FA...and for all of ya'll debating on whether we should draft bush or young neither are the best "football" move to make...neither fill any of our main holes on this team...if we switch to a 4-3 defense(and we will) our number one need will be an every down DE...#2 will be OL help...#3 will be a #2 WE...#4 is a TE...#5 is a 2nd CB...and #6 is LB's...runningbacks and quarterback is not a need for us...so techniquelly the best move is to trade down in the draft and pick up as many picks as possible

that being said i fully understand going after either one of the top two guys in the draft...VY is the hometown savior and Bush would give us a RB that we wouldn't have to worry about getting hurt every play...but that's just my two cents

Tulip
01-10-2006, 12:28 AM
If it makes you sleep easier at night, then you can think that.

Yes, because Charley Casserly controls my sleep patterns. :rolleyes:

thunderkyss
01-10-2006, 12:34 AM
Someone else said it best: "Makes you think Casserly knew this season was a wash and so he went ahead and cut dead weight (Sharper and Glenn)..."
So what did the master mind get us for those players?? I know Glenn Started for Dallas, won Defenseive player of the week once....... Didn't look bad.


I love how Casserly is the biggest "fraud" of all but yet he's somehow still here after Capers got royally booted. Of course, for those same Casserly-haters they don't recognize that McNair is capable of separating out who's responsible for what around here.

I've said it, and I'll say it again: If anything, Casserly should be congratulated for at least gaining us some players (almost exclusively in the draft) who we will can still utilize with our new coaching staff and whatever system they will employ. Capers' 3-4 style, as Dunta put it himself, was out of whack with the type of players he was putting in certain spots within the 3-4. And I think Capers' and Pendry's style of offense was also a mis-match with our players. Imagine Casserly saddled with the burden of tyring to get whomever Capers wanted but also knowing that Capers is probably history after the 2005 season anyway! That's called doing the best with what ya' got.

Before the Stadium was Built, we all knew we'd be playing a 3-4. Didn't Casserly get the memo?? & you say McNair's got it all figured out?? Our Corner says we have the wrong personnel for the 3-4, so we'll fire the head coach, and let the GM build the right team with anther coach.

GP
01-10-2006, 12:46 AM
"...Before the Stadium was Built, we all knew we'd be playing a 3-4. Didn't Casserly get the memo?? & you say McNair's got it all figured out?? Our Corner says we have the wrong personnel for the 3-4, so we'll fire the head coach, and let the GM build the right team with anther coach..." --thunderkyss

----------------------------

Man, you are realllllly combative. Have you YET to even offer up some sort of "but I can see what you're saying," or perhaps a "...you're entitled to your opinion, but I disagree?"

You just desire so badly for a victory on each of your arguments.

I'm cool with that. I'm kinda' the same way.

Look, you're not following what I am saying about Casserly. The guy, in spite of Capers' inability to plug the right players into the 3-4, has brought us some pretty decent players. McNair said so himself, claiming that Casserly has done enough according to Reeves to show that Capers was at fault for not placing the puzzles correctly. Casserly is not a coach, he's a GM. He arranges for the coach to get what the coach needs as it fits into the team's budget and future, etc.

To me, and THIS IS MY OPINION (big disclaimer, OK?), Casserly has drafted us the talent that satisfied Capers but yet has also managed to be plugged into the new system whenever the new coach takes over. In short, I think he juggled the demands of his job well.

But people want to pair the GM up with the head coach because it's an easy fit. He wears bad suits, his hair style is Trump-tastic, and he has pock marks on his face, so he's an easy target.

Casserly is here for one more year, so relax and drop the Casserly-hating until we see some results. Who knows, we might just make the playoffs next year...and that'll leave the boards with crickets chirping when it comes down to giving credit where credit is due. Oh, but it will be because of the new head coach and it will also be because of us getting Young or Bush.

Why some of you blame the GM is beyond me. Some bad decisions? Yep. BUt not as many bad decisions as he's had good decisions. Chew his rear out for grabbing Mathis why don't you? "He doesn't have sure hands!"

Oh, and the 4th round DD pick was also a puker of a pick, huh? What a stretch...geez, he's just a 3rd down back at best, maybe kickoff return, too.

We;ve got the talent, we just need a coaching staff who isn't amateur hour.