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View Full Version : Bush or Vince Young its easy when you think about it


CyberTexan
01-07-2006, 05:31 PM
You know after the rose bowl I too like many of you had 2nd thoughts on picking Bush or Young but after thinking about it long and hard and reading every piece of info I could find I have to say everything points to picking Bush that is the best choice by far . You have to keep in mind Youngs performance was against the 39th ranked defense , if you think about the games he had against A&M and Oklahoma to name a couple it wasnt near as good actually almost dissaster . Young wont be able to play like the rose bowl game against the NFL theres no way . Look at Vick sure he wins for that team sometimes but he gets hurt alot and for long periods of time and he has never taken that team to the big game and Vick is alot faster than Young . Picking Young will be like starting over too will take 2 or 3 years at least to develope where as Bush will be an imediate help not only as a HB but as a WR too wouldnt it be nice to have Bush and Davis sharing the running duties plus having Bush as another WR threat. So in my mind Bush is still the right way to go. I dont think our team is that bad as we are sure we need some help here and there but I think it was just poorly coached and they underachieved .

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:59 PM
Ive come to the conclusion that Bush is the better pick as well. I think he could add alot to the offense.. and we have a good setup for him, with our zone blocking, and the fact that DD is a great complimentary back to his running style, and both DD and Bush need to split carries.. and not carry the whole workload.

Bush or trading down strike me as the best options to get this team back on track quickly.

Huge
01-07-2006, 07:02 PM
Yep, Bush is certainly a player that'd never be second guessed.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 07:18 PM
How many players are contained to 160 yards and a touchdown? 270 including returns? I think he adds so much to our offense, which is in need of some more playmakers. He reminds me of Steve Smith as a receiver and Tiki Barber as a RB combined. I guess that would be Tiki Smith or Steve Barber. He could be solely lined up as a receiver and give you over 1200 yards receiving or could be solely lined up as a running back and give you 1300 yards running not to mention a plethora of touchdowns.

Bubbajwp
01-07-2006, 07:24 PM
How many players are contained to 160 yards and a touchdown? 270 including returns? I think he adds so much to our offense, which is in need of some more playmakers. He reminds me of Steve Smith as a receiver and Tiki Barber as a RB combined. I guess that would be Tiki Smith or Steve Barber. He could be solely lined up as a receiver and give you over 1200 yards receiving or could be solely lined up as a running back and give you 1300 yards running not to mention a plethora of touchdowns.
I choose Steve Barber.

Huge
01-07-2006, 07:35 PM
Reggie Bush rush for a loss of 2 yards to the USC 10.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the Texas 29 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the Texas 26 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 3 yards to the Texas 23.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the USC 35 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 1 yard to the USC 41.
Reggie Bush rush for 2 yards to the Texas 49.
Reggie Bush rush for 1 yard to the Texas 25.
Reggie Bush rush for 18 yards to the USC 44 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 4 yards to the Texas 49.
Reggie Bush rush for no gain to the Texas 21.
Reggie Bush rush for 2 yards to the Texas 47.
Reggie Bush rush for 26 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.

How many other games did you see Bush have only 2 runs over 10 yards?

Texas was willing to give up the underneath stuff (that's where he got his receiving yards) as long as they contained him on the edge...which they did a really good job of except for his lone TD.

Are his 102 return yards really that impressive when you factor in that he only averaged 20.4 per return?

Of his 82 receiving yards, 26 of them came on the 2nd to last play of the game when Texas was playing a prevent defense.

He only scored once and didn't much else that put USC in scoring range inside the 20's. So yeah, I'd say they did a fair job of containing him.

Grid
01-07-2006, 07:36 PM
I choose Tiki Steve cause it sounds like a surfboarders nickname from the 60s

dat_boy_yec
01-07-2006, 08:27 PM
I don't think it's an easy decision either way. Of course who knows if VY and RB will come out for sure, but both are definetely upgrades to our current talent. VY seems to have more intangibles on Carr, Carr has a better throwing motion (though VY could improve with coaching) and VY has better, way better mobility than Carr. The same comparisons can be made for Bush and Davis, Bush has more speed, juking abilities, and intangibles. It all depends what direction the Texans want to go.

If they are willing to groom another QB, they would have to loose Carr (I think it would be an insult to the guy to basically give him the placeholder role in the team while VY improves) and toss in another QB to be the crash dummie. However in the longrun this move might be better, a QB that hasn't become paranoid of sacks, has huge upside, can work with whatever coach to learn the system and be groomed to great effect. Not picking up Carr's option would free up alot of money in the cap, allowing the Texans more manuevering room. Getting other high priced free agents would become more realistic, local fanbase would be ecstatic and team would improve.

Getting RB, they still have a great position. They have flexibility in the cap as it stands and could probably still get a couple of free agents and improve with this move. The impact would also be immediate, Bush would start playing almost immidiately, would have a mentor in DD, not only a mentor but somebody to share the load with. Both these running backs careers would be longer and could be used to great effect.

It's a difficult choice, and hindsight will prove a ***** if we make a mistake this draft.

Personally I hope VY stays in school, he has an opportunity to keep the streak going and win another championship. Raise his stock and finish out his education. It would be nice to see the longhorns win another title next yr. and have the Texans greatly improve with bush.

Thas my :twocents:

Grid
01-07-2006, 08:49 PM
and VY has better, way better mobility than Carr.

I gotta disagree with that. Better, probably, but not WAY better. Carr is a pretty mobile QB.

texplayer2
01-07-2006, 09:00 PM
Reggie Bush rush for a loss of 2 yards to the USC 10.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the Texas 29 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the Texas 26 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 3 yards to the Texas 23.
Reggie Bush rush for 9 yards to the USC 35 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 1 yard to the USC 41.
Reggie Bush rush for 2 yards to the Texas 49.
Reggie Bush rush for 1 yard to the Texas 25.
Reggie Bush rush for 18 yards to the USC 44 for a 1ST down.
Reggie Bush rush for 4 yards to the Texas 49.
Reggie Bush rush for no gain to the Texas 21.
Reggie Bush rush for 2 yards to the Texas 47.
Reggie Bush rush for 26 yards for a TOUCHDOWN.

How many other games did you see Bush have only 2 runs over 10 yards?

Texas was willing to give up the underneath stuff (that's where he got his receiving yards) as long as they contained him on the edge...which they did a really good job of except for his lone TD.

Are his 102 return yards really that impressive when you factor in that he only averaged 20.4 per return?

Of his 82 receiving yards, 26 of them came on the 2nd to last play of the game when Texas was playing a prevent defense.

He only scored once and didn't much else that put USC in scoring range inside the 20's. So yeah, I'd say they did a fair job of containing him.

Fact is Bush was what they were trying to contain and the rest of the offense opened up a 12 pt. lead with about 6 min. left and then went into a protect the lead throttle down rather than blow and go offense. When Texas fired back they couldn't recover fast enough. Bush and company weren't held any better than they had been all season. Except on one 4th down play which was the game winning stop. Both teams didn't look good for the first half after a month long layoff. That is where the 50 pt. avg of both suffered.
USC also used Bush as a decoy alot out at WR and Lendale pounded the Middle. And as for the Stats you posted three of those were 9 yrds., 5 out of the 13 runs, were almost first downs. That is real close to a 1:2 ratio or almost 50% of the time he was going for a first down. He helped his team to a 12 pt. lead with 6 min. to play and then the coaching changed. How many touches did he get in those last series where they were sitting on the lead?And as for Bushes last run when they were back down by 3, who did they give the ball too? Reggie Bush, hoping he could pull off a game breaker against a prevent.

DynoMoxie
01-07-2006, 09:07 PM
I personally would like to see the pick traded for multiple picks and players, but if I had to select only one player I want one that's a game changer. Reggie Bush played in the Pac 10. How many Pac 10 teams played in bowl games? How many Pac 10 teams won their bowl games? How many Big 12 teams played in bowl games? How many Big 12 teams won their bowl games? If anyone values and respects Pete Carroll's opinion...Vince Young is clearly and unarguably a game changer...proven. He can pass and he can run. He clearly ran the ball better than Reggie Bush. Can Reggie pass the ball as well as Vince? Pete Carroll said Vince Young was CLEARLY the difference maker. Isn't that what the Texans want! David Carr may have athletic ability (not nearly as much as Young) but his decision making abilities are killing the Texans. I watched the games. He's poor at reading coverages. He holds the ball too long. He makes bad decisions with the ball. He has no skill when it comes to audibling. Our offensive line isn't as bad as he made them appear. The average NFL quarterback has 4 seconds or less to get rid of the ball. I counted from the snap and there were many times he tried to hold the ball for 6, 7 or even 8 seconds...most of which ended in a sack, a fumble, an interception or just a poorly thrown football. Houston won't ever be a legitimate Super Bowl contender with David Carr at quarterback. The dilemma the Texans are having about not keeping him is not getting anything of value for him. Otherwise I think he'd be gone. I truly hope they do the smart thing and first try to get multiple quality players and picks for that first overall pick, but I want a TRUE game changer (like Vince Young) if we're only going to take the one player. All you Bush fans haven't done you're homework, no disrespect intended...because once you do you'll seel the light.

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 09:14 PM
I gotta disagree with that. Better, probably, but not WAY better. Carr is a pretty mobile QB.


\oh come on man...

Carr's yards are all from short runs to his right to escape pressure.

they arent even comparable. Carr has the mobility of jake the snake, not michael vick.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 09:17 PM
Carr and Plummer also don't get injured as much as Vick

texplayer2
01-07-2006, 09:18 PM
I personally would like to see the pick traded for multiple picks and players, but if I had to select only one player I want one that's a game changer. Reggie Bush played in the Pac 10. How many Pac 10 teams played in bowl games? How many Pac 10 teams won their bowl games? How many Big 12 teams played in bowl games? How many Big 12 teams won their bowl games? If anyone values and respects Pete Carroll's opinion...Vince Young is clearly and unarguably a game changer...proven. He can pass and he can run. He clearly ran the ball better than Reggie Bush. Can Reggie pass the ball as well as Vince? Pete Carroll said Vince Young was CLEARLY the difference maker. Isn't that what the Texans want! David Carr may have athletic ability (not nearly as much as Young) but his decision making abilities are killing the Texans. I watched the games. He's poor at reading coverages. He holds the ball too long. He makes bad decisions with the ball. He has no skill when it comes to audibling. Our offensive line isn't as bad as he made them appear. The average NFL quarterback has 4 seconds or less to get rid of the ball. I counted from the snap and there were many times he tried to hold the ball for 6, 7 or even 8 seconds...most of which ended in a sack, a fumble, an interception or just a poorly thrown football. Houston won't ever be a legitimate Super Bowl contender with David Carr at quarterback. The dilemma the Texans are having about not keeping him is not getting anything of value for him. Otherwise I think he'd be gone. I truly hope they do the smart thing and first try to get multiple quality players and picks for that first overall pick, but I want a TRUE game changer (like Vince Young) if we're only going to take the one player. All you Bush fans haven't done you're homework, no disrespect intended...because once you do you'll seel the light.

Was Vince the light coming out of highschool? He is becoming a very good College QB, but he will not be better at reading NFL defense's than Carr for awhile. Whoever the Texans will get for linemen will also take time to gel. That was the learning curve Carr has had to deal with. We already have him why do we want another 4 yr. plan guy. I would like to win more say,.... next season. Vince would still be in NFL school then along with the line he was suppose to be reading behind. Give Carr some more time he will be OK, give him more weapons and he will be good.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 09:23 PM
Was Vince the light coming out of highschool?

Yes. So much so that the Longhorns almost lost him to Miami.

texplayer2
01-07-2006, 09:35 PM
Yes. So much so that the Longhorns almost lost him to Miami.

I thought so, but don't remember his first year as a Longhorn being all that stellar. Cedric was the man then wasn't he.( It takes time at QB). His breakout game was last years Rose bowl, that I remember.

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 09:40 PM
I thought so, but don't remember his first year as a Longhorn being all that stellar. Cedric was the man then wasn't he.( It takes time at QB). His breakout game was last years Rose bowl, that I remember.

vince was the nations #1 recruit outta highschool

tulexan
01-07-2006, 09:51 PM
vince was the nations #1 recruit outta highschool

Actually he was #4. Lorenzo Booker, Haloti Ngata, and Devin Hester were above him

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=4&pid=88&yr=2002

Tulip
01-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Actually he was #4. Lorenzo Booker, Haloti Ngata, and Devin Hester were above him

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=4&pid=88&yr=2002

Or he was #1

http://footballrecruiting.rivals.com/viewrank.asp?SID=880&Year=2002&ra_key=50

tulexan
01-07-2006, 10:03 PM
I guess he was #1 in some eyes and #4 in others.

Agree to disagree.

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 10:03 PM
Actually he was #4. Lorenzo Booker, Haloti Ngata, and Devin Hester were above him

http://scout.scout.com/a.z?s=73&p=9&c=4&pid=88&yr=2002

he was National player of the year for like 3 publications, i think scout is the onyl one that didnt have him #1 overall.


Parade‘s and Student Sports’ National Player of the Year ,also named the 2001 Texas 5A Offensive Player of the Year, listed as The Sporting News’ top high school prospect.

also won the MVP award at the army all-american game.


i actually played against Vince twice in high school. He was somethin else then.

WILLIEG
01-07-2006, 11:20 PM
Assuming VY is coming out this. I was curious to how many Texans fans lean towards one or the other.

Texan fans for Bush

Texan fans for Vince

Texans fans on a trade down

Tulip
01-07-2006, 11:24 PM
Wouldn't this be better as a poll?

My answer is Vince.

Grid
01-07-2006, 11:24 PM
You're a couple days late on this :)

but im somewhere between taking Bush, and trading down. Either one could make me happy.