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View Full Version : What has Carr done in 4 years?


Htown34s
01-07-2006, 05:26 PM
OK, someone please show me an example of the potential of Carr. He has been here 4 years. Surely, in those 4 years, he would have to have had at least one shining moment. One game where he showed a glimmer of what his shining potential is. I'm just curious. I've watched all of the games, but I can't remember a single game where I said to myself "Wow, that Carr could be special."

My memory may be weak so please, describe what game or games we should watch again or try to remember that shows us what Carr could do one day.

I'm not flaming, I'd just like to hear some positive things Carr has done.

sprtsfanatic
01-07-2006, 05:29 PM
comeback vs the vikes is the first that comes to mind...im sure there are more, but that hit like a freight train.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 05:30 PM
Here they come.....

Bongo59
01-07-2006, 05:38 PM
the best thing one can say about him is you dont know what he can become because of bad coaching and no OL for the first 4 yrs..........I think you have to fire the coaches but i also would fire CC because he is the reason the Texans have no OL............and your drafting has blown..............Carr deserves a shot............but i would not pay that option...........id get him to agree to a new cap friendly deal or just transition tag him to trade him next yr..............but i dont think you guys can afford to trade him with their cap situation as it stands.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Last year against Minnesota:

27 of 42 for 372 yards with 3 touchdowns and 0 interceptions

This year against the Rams:

25 of 34 for 293 yards with 3 touchdowns and 1 interception


He had a pretty good year last year considering how many times he was sacked (49)

285 of 466 for 3531 yards with 16 touchdowns and 14 interceptions plus 299 yards rushing

Mr. White
01-07-2006, 05:42 PM
If the Texans want to stay the #3 team in Texas, then they should keep Carr. If they want to get respect from all over Texas (and the nation,) then they should go get Vince Young.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 05:43 PM
Surely, in those 4 years, he would have to have had at least one shining moment.

Well..............


1. he has those awesome H-E-B commercials with Andy Pettite and Roger Clemens....those are really funny.

2. that thing with him growing out his hair until the Texans won 2 in a row showed some strong leadership capabilities.

3. Did I already mention the H-E-B commercials????

LikeABoss
01-07-2006, 05:43 PM
What has Carr done in 4 years?

Get sacked a total of 208 times for a total of 1226 yards including 68 for 424 yards(the most yards he's ever been sacked for) this season. I don't see how Vince Young could fair any better in the same situation when he still hasn't even played in a pro offense yet and that's including his college offense. Carr still completed 60% of his throws, so he is still accurate with his throws even with all the intense pressure coming at him, he can make all the throws if he just get's the time.

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:17 PM
It boils down to whether you want to blame everything on Carr.. or blame it on the Oline and bad coaching.

If you feel that Carr is at the root of the problem, then nothing anyone can say is going to change that in your mind.. because for every positive stat, you can say how someone else could have done better, or just quote a negative stat, like his sack totals, and say that his negatives outweigh his positives.

I think the fact that everyone in the league agrees that our Oline is bad... that he has been limited to 3 step drops for most of his career.. and that our coaching staff just got fired.. and that no phase of our game is working properly.. is a big indication that all the blame cant be placed on Carr. And if all the blame cant be placed on Carr.. then you have to consider how he did when he had control of the offense.. how he has improved every year (though this year was as bad for him as it was for the rest of the Texans)... how he has all the physical attributes needed to be a good QB. So on and so forth.

I dont think this arguement will be solved until we bring in a new staff and see how Carr does. Or if we bench him or cut him and get someone else.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 06:18 PM
more Sundays than not he's been running for his life ....

Tulip
01-07-2006, 06:23 PM
It boils down to whether you want to blame everything on Carr.. or blame it on the Oline and bad coaching.

Not necessarily. I pretty much blamed it all on coaching all year. The problem is that I have no clue if it's too late for David or if he can have the loser coached out of him. And he hasn't really shown any flashes of brilliance that I would have expected from a 1st overall pick. I would think that I would have seen something in him, regardless of the coaching.

Drafting Vince has about the same risk as keeping Carr, IMO. We don't have assurances that either of them will be good.

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:27 PM
True.. but why use a #1 pick on someone who is no more of a sure thing than Carr? I certainly wouldnt say that he is MORE of a sure thing.

I will draw my final conclusions about Carr next offseason. I want to give him one season under a new coaching staff. If he shows a marked improvement, then ill be happy to keep him for another season and see if he shows another improvement. I think in a couple seasons, with a better coaching staff and an improved Oline, Carr COULD be a great QB. But after this next season I think we will know for sure if he is a bust.

So.. one more year is my opinion. If he doesnt do well.. we will probably have a top 10 pick again, and we can use it to either get a rookie QB, or trade it to get an established one. I just dont see the point in getting Young. For one.. we dont know if we need him yet.. and for two.. running QBs havent done well in the playoffs, or the superbowl. Pocket QBs win championships.

Htown34s
01-07-2006, 06:32 PM
It boils down to whether you want to blame everything on Carr.. or blame it on the Oline and bad coaching.

Yeah Grid this is what I have thought, but you know, no matter who or what is to blame, Carr should have at least shined for one complete game.

The Vikings comeback is the best game I can think of, although we had to come back after a bad first half and we still lost the game (if my memory is correct).

Tulip
01-07-2006, 06:33 PM
True.. but why use a #1 pick on someone who is no more of a sure thing than Carr? I certainly wouldnt say that he is MORE of a sure thing.

I will draw my final conclusions about Carr next offseason. I want to give him one season under a new coaching staff. If he shows a marked improvement, then ill be happy to keep him for another season and see if he shows another improvement. I think in a couple seasons, with a better coaching staff and an improved Oline, Carr COULD be a great QB. But after this next season I think we will know for sure if he is a bust.

So.. one more year is my opinion. If he doesnt do well.. we will probably have a top 10 pick again, and we can use it to either get a rookie QB, or trade it to get an established one. I just dont see the point in getting Young. For one.. we dont know if we need him yet.. and for two.. running QBs havent done well in the playoffs, or the superbowl. Pocket QBs win championships.

Vince doesn't have any NFL wear on him. And Vince has a bigger upside. I just don't believe that Carr, after 4 years of being bad to mediocre, can elevate himself above good. Certainly not great.

Vince is a winner. He talked his own coach out of being a loser. Carr just doesn't have that type of impact on other people. Carr is a victim. He treats himself like one. WE treat him like one. That is not a positive in his favor.

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:37 PM
I understand the impact that Young had on his college team.. he WAS the offense. But keep in mind that running QBs have had limited success in the NFL.. pocket QBs win championships. Carr is a pocket QB who HAS shown talent when the situation allowed him to. I think that gives Carr better upside than Young, personally.

As for Carr's impact on other people.. I cant really comment on that because im not in the lockerroom with him. I think that our coaching staff repressed alot of the emotions that Carr COULD have shown. I remember him getting fired up those first couple of years.. running to the endzone.. getting the crowd and the team into it. I dont think there is any reason to beleive that his attitude has been unalterably changed. I think a new coaching staff.. a better Oline.. and a little bit of success.. will get Carr back in his old groove. I imagine it was real hard to get fired up this season... with all these last minute losses... and the same old problems they have had since 2002, still not fixed.

I dont think he treats himself like a victim either.. ive seen too many interviews where he COULD have felt sorry for himself, and didnt.

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 06:41 PM
Young isn't a running QB. Tommy frazier = running qb
eric crouch = running qb
seneca wallace = running qb

Vince Young = DUAL THREAT (3300yds passing 26tds 10 ints 65%completion, 1000rushing yards 10tds at 7ypc)

that my friend, is as dual threat as it gets. No one in the history of College ball has come close to those numbers.

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:43 PM
I watched the Rose Bowl.. he is a running QB.

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 06:43 PM
I watched the Rose Bowl.. he is a running QB.


congrats, you watched 1 of his 32 career starts and consider yourself an insider to his abilities.


brilliant

Grid
01-07-2006, 06:44 PM
hah.. so you are saying the Rose Bowl was a special circumstance and that isnt how he plays the game?

texan279
01-07-2006, 06:51 PM
the best thing one can say about him is you dont know what he can become because of bad coaching and no OL for the first 4 yrs..........I think you have to fire the coaches but i also would fire CC because he is the reason the Texans have no OL............and your drafting has blown..............Carr deserves a shot............but i would not pay that option...........id get him to agree to a new cap friendly deal or just transition tag him to trade him next yr..............but i dont think you guys can afford to trade him with their cap situation as it stands.

Coming from a non Texan fan/ non homer looking at the situation from the outside.

edo783
01-07-2006, 06:58 PM
Coming from a non Texan fan/ non homer looking at the situation from the outside.

Yes, it's strange how those who aren't in the forest can see the trees and none of them are burnt orange.

LCOOL
01-07-2006, 07:14 PM
I agree Carr has done nothing in 4 years, look at what Eli Manning, Chris Simms, and Carson Plamer have done. When Carr has had time he still did not do anything, were has he been in the 4 QTR? By the way Chris Mortesen reported today that if Vince Young comes out this year, the Texans will still draft Reggie Bush no#1.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 07:24 PM
I agree Carr has done nothing in 4 years, look at what Eli Manning, Chris Simms, and Carson Plamer have done. When Carr has had time he still did not do anything, were has he been in the 4 QTR? By the way Chris Mortesen reported today that if Vince Young comes out this year, the Texans will still draft Reggie Bush no#1.

When David Carr has the supporting casts of what Eli, Carson, and Chris have, and still performs this way, then you can criticize him.

texan279
01-07-2006, 07:32 PM
I agree Carr has done nothing in 4 years, look at what Eli Manning, Chris Simms, and Carson Plamer have done. When Carr has had time he still did not do anything, were has he been in the 4 QTR? By the way Chris Mortesen reported today that if Vince Young comes out this year, the Texans will still draft Reggie Bush no#1.

Simms has thrown for 10 TD's and 7 INTs this season, Manning threw for 24 TD's but also 17 INT's, Palmer is really the only one who has shined this season with 32 TD's and 12 INTs. Palmer also had the luxury of sitting out his first season. Sure all 3 are in the playoffs, but all 3 also have strong defenses and offensive weapons surrounding them like Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress, Jeremy Shockey, Carnel Williams, Joey Galloway, Rudi Johnson, Chad Johnson, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.

Grid
01-07-2006, 07:34 PM
and competent coaching staffs

tulexan
01-07-2006, 07:43 PM
Simms has thrown for 10 TD's and 7 INTs this season, Manning threw for 24 TD's but also 17 INT's, Palmer is really the only one who has shined this season with 32 TD's and 12 INTs. Palmer also had the luxury of sitting out his first season. Sure all 3 are in the playoffs, but all 3 also have strong defenses and offensive weapons surrounding them like Tiki Barber, Plaxico Burress, Jeremy Shockey, Carnel Williams, Joey Galloway, Rudi Johnson, Chad Johnson, and T.J. Houshmandzadeh.


Your facts are no match for their blind loyalty. You might as well stop.

dml923
01-07-2006, 07:55 PM
if carr had an Oline he would be great but he has 1.5 seconds in the pocket which maks him suck

Mr. White
01-07-2006, 07:58 PM
Seems to me that blind loyalty also exists in the Carr supporters. He does have a supporting cast. Domanick Davis has good numbers and Andre Johnson is a stud. The line is suspect, but it didn't stop DD from putting up the numbers.

Bongo59
01-07-2006, 08:00 PM
honestly i dont think Carr was ever worthy of the top slot but it was a bad yr...................I still would not blow that much cash on him now............he is, even at his best a in the bottom third of all starters................i would seriously ponder letting him go for the cash he is supposed to get....................I could not imagine paying that much for the result. I think if the Texans were smart they would trade him right now for a one from a team like the fins........I would then take their 16th pick and the texans second and move up to get D'Brick..................i would take Leinart at one if i was the Texans.............he is ready right now to play and VY is not.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 08:17 PM
Flame me if you will, but:

Was David Carr drafted to be the "face of the Texans"?

If I remember correctly, he didn't even hit #1 on Kiper's draft board until it was definitive that the Texans were taking him.

And, in Houston (not here on this board), there seems to be this very superficial attachment to him.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 08:18 PM
Flame me if you will, but:

Was David Carr drafted to be the "face of the Texans"?

If I remember correctly, he didn't even hit #1 on Kiper's draft board until it was definitive that the Texans were taking him.

And, in Houston (not here on this board), there seems to be this very superficial attachment to him.

how can I flame you if I don't understand your post?

Tulip
01-07-2006, 08:27 PM
how can I flame you if I don't understand your post?

I mean - I'm wondering if that isn't why McNair can't let go of him. Because he's McNair's poster boy.

Casual fans (chatter around Houston) seem to like him because he's pretty or because he's white.

There just doesn't seem to be much interest in him below the surface. And McNair may be taking that as fan approval.

I'm probably too punchy with cabin fever to make much sense anymore today.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 08:31 PM
I mean - I'm wondering if that isn't why McNair can't let go of him. Because he's McNair's poster boy.

Casual fans (chatter around Houston) seem to like him because he's pretty or because he's white.

There just doesn't seem to be much interest in him below the surface. And McNair may be taking that as fan approval.

I'm probably too punchy with cabin fever to make much sense anymore today.

I'm white but I'm not pretty and if he's crap next year under Kubiak (or whomever) I'll join my voice with yours ...

Texanfan4ever
01-07-2006, 08:38 PM
Hey Tulip, are you a democrat? Just wondering.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 08:44 PM
Hey Tulip, are you a democrat? Just wondering.

I remember the years when Felicia Moon got pelted with racial epithets by people sitting around her the Astrodome. That's where my skepticism about Houston fans was born.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 08:45 PM
I remember the years when Felicia Moon got pelted with racial epithets by people sitting around her the Astrodome. That's where my skepticism about Houston fans was born.

ok fellas ... we were talking about football

Texanfan4ever
01-07-2006, 08:52 PM
Ok chuckm, couldn't help it. I just think there are some great things working and McNair being the business man that he is, has people in place to help him make the right decisions. Thank God CC isn't left to his own accord. That would spell disaster. I think we have a lot to look forward to no matter who they pick. I for one, don't think VY is coming out this year. Once all the hype settles down, he will stay at UT for another year.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 08:53 PM
I for one, don't think VY is coming out this year. Once all the hype settles down, he will stay at UT for another year.


IMO staying is a mistake and the Texans drafting him a bigger mistake

GoBlue
01-07-2006, 09:09 PM
If I remember correctly Carr also had a great game at KC last year, and a pretty good game when we shut out Jacksonville at home.

Many other quarterbacks have struggled for years under oppressive coaches- Steve Young suffered in Tampa for years before heading to SF. Trent Dilfer was a nomad NOBDOY before fitting into a good system and wining a Superbowl.

As evidenced by the games this year where he called the plays and made the reads (Arizona) he did quite a good job. Our D let them down more often than Carr did. How bad does own O-line look when we're down by 14 and the other team knows we have to throw the ball. They pinned their ears back and flattened Carr.

People who say it's Carr not the O-line because DD can run for 1000 yds- remeber that pass blocking and run blocking are very different beasts. Hopefully we can find coaches who can show our linemen how to do both. Speaking of which, any ideas on who could coach our offensive line? can we steal Russ Grim from Pittsburgh? What about Mark Schlereth? I just think this position could be key to our success.

SESupergenius
01-07-2006, 09:15 PM
When Carr was handed the reigns wth year you saw immediate improvement. He answered critics about his ability to find another reciever when he locks on, too back the WR's miss perfect passes.

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 09:27 PM
David has done wonders have any of you seen those momentum comercials they are sweet only a great field general could pull that off. but david has proven he is and elite QB ala Manning and palmer i hope i dont sound like a :homer: but david carr truely is elite look at his W's he is a winner i mean he almost got us in to the playoffs this year.:fans:

chuckm
01-07-2006, 09:29 PM
have any of you seen those momentum comercials


what's a momentum commercial?

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 09:30 PM
what's a momentum commercial?



A local VW Dealership http://www.momentumcars.com/

stevo3883
01-07-2006, 09:32 PM
its BMW

Davie wouldnt model for a jetta!


he's m5 material!

chuckm
01-07-2006, 09:32 PM
A local VW Dealership


ah ok ... saw him in his HEB commercial .... he hates sacks

bigcarlos
01-07-2006, 09:42 PM
This year against the Rams:

25 of 34 for 293 yards with 3 touchdowns and 1 interception



Didnt he have more than that..............oops ,my bad, it was the 3rd string Ivy guy:redtowel:

Grid
01-07-2006, 09:44 PM
yah if Carr was a real playmaker he would have been out there intercepting balls for the defense.

what a lazy worthless bum.. letting that Ivy guy run over his defense.

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 09:44 PM
Didnt he have more than that..............oops ,my bad, it was the 3rd string Ivy guy:redtowel:


hahahaha good one always someone out there to reminds us how david carr got out played by a 3rd stringer that got benched the last two weaks of the season and we are still considering keeping carr LMAO:yahoo:

Grid
01-07-2006, 09:45 PM
yah what kind of QB is he if his defense sucks.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 09:48 PM
hahahaha good one always someone out there to reminds us how david carr got out played by a 3rd stringer that got benched the last two weaks of the season and we are still considering keeping carr LMAO:yahoo:

So our lack of defense and lack of the ability to field an onside kick is Carr's responsibility?

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 09:49 PM
So our lack of defense and lack of the ability to field an onside kick is Carr's responsibility?


no just that he couldnt produce better numbers that a 3rd stringer that got benched.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 09:59 PM
Doesn't that say more about our defense? That we let a 3rd stringer from Harvard play like that?

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 10:12 PM
Doesn't that say more about our defense? That we let a 3rd stringer from Harvard play like that?



Not really the Rams defense was equally as bad and we still did not Win if i remember correctly they had no namers playing secondary.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 10:14 PM
You're right, but if I remember correctly, that was one of those games where we would get a lead and then have the most conservative offensive play calling, just to make sure that we didn't turn the ball over.

Nighthawk
01-07-2006, 11:25 PM
The guy asks where Carr's remarkable potential has been shown over the last four years and after 60 posts there are only a couple games mentioned?

I'd call that game, set, match for the anti-Carr contingent.

This has got to be a tough thread for Carr supporters.

Or maybe, just maybe, a wake up call.

Grid
01-07-2006, 11:28 PM
Whats the weather like in your little world Nighthawk?

Go check out some of the other threads... its not that there isnt plenty of information to support taking Young, taking Bush, trading down, keeping Carr.. or whatever other subject you support.. its just that people are tired of repeating the same arguements in every thread.

If you want to see more of the arguements in support of Carr.. they are out there.

blockhead83
01-08-2006, 12:01 AM
Carr has shown flashes of his potential very rarely, and even his strongest supporters have to question that after leaving year four, especially with VY possibly in the next draft. On the other hand, look at what Carr has had to work with. No gamechanging RB, no reliable dual threat TE, no #2 receiver, an absolutely broken offensive line, and an absolutely broken offensive scheme, period. Who can blame him for not producing when he's had so little help. He may not be a QB that can take a team on his shoulders and will them to win, but then again as seen this year, neither is Brett Favre. I think with a decent supporting cast, Carr could become an above average quarterback for us. Vince Young could become an elite quarterback for all we know, but if Bob McNair wants to win now - Reggie Bush is probably a very appealing choice. That and trading down and drafting OL.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 12:08 AM
In semi-related news- Julius Peppers was named Pro Bowl starter for the second year in a row.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 12:27 AM
He may not be a QB that can take a team on his shoulders and will them to win, but then again as seen this year, neither is Brett Favre.

I'm not going to compare Brett to David, but you do make an intriguing point. Look at the difference between the Packers when they have their best RB, best WR, TE, and a good line compared to this year when they have none of those. They go from a playoff team to a bottom of the barrel team. You can't expect a quarterback to be successful without a line or weapons.

Nighthawk
01-08-2006, 12:39 AM
Whats the weather like in your little world Nighthawk?

Go check out some of the other threads... its not that there isnt plenty of information to support taking Young, taking Bush, trading down, keeping Carr.. or whatever other subject you support.. its just that people are tired of repeating the same arguements in every thread.

If you want to see more of the arguements in support of Carr.. they are out there.

Nope, afraid not. The question was where specifically over the last four years did Carr burn it up and thus show his great potential. The answer is, he hasn't.

There are, as you point out, many arguments for keeping Carr, but NONE OF THEM are based on what Carr's actually done in the last four years.

The fact is that he has NEVER SHOWN THE FABULOUS POTENTIAL that his supporters imagine he has. The reason for that is simple: he really DOESN'T have all this fantastic potential. It's a myth, a construct, wishful thinking based on a pretty good small college career and some of the physical attributes of a big time QB.

I was hoping that some of the Carr-fans would stop and reflect a little on his performance over his tenure with us. It's one thing for Casserly and Capers and the beat writers and so on to SAY HE HAS POTENTIAL, it's quite another for Carr to actually DEMONSTRATE THAT POTENTIAL. He hasn't.

There are a lot of excuses, I'll agree. But you'd think that over four years and 64 games his supporters would have more than a couple quarters of good play to point at, wouldn't you?

I feel bad about it, yoo, but I don't think that we ought to handicap the franchise out of loyalty to a pick that didn't quite work out.

blockhead83
01-08-2006, 01:03 AM
You're absolutely right when you say Carr has rarely demonstrated his potential aside of a few games over his four game career. Based on ESPN's reports of us not wanting VY, it appears as though Dan Reeves, Bob McNair, and the Texans front office disagree with you about his potential being a myth.

Surround the guy with some good talent, don't force him to go out and win the game for us single handedly, and I think he'll work out. It's hilarious seeing all these threads that make it out to be either we draft VY or it's the death of the franchise. VY would be great, but I believe Carr can get us where we want to go if we can give him some help. We don't need a hall of famer behind center to win a superbowl.

Napa Auto Parts
01-08-2006, 11:46 AM
You're absolutely right when you say Carr has rarely demonstrated his potential aside of a few games over his four game career. Based on ESPN's reports of us not wanting VY, it appears as though Dan Reeves, Bob McNair, and the Texans front office disagree with you about his potential being a myth.

Surround the guy with some good talent, don't force him to go out and win the game for us single handedly, and I think he'll work out. It's hilarious seeing all these threads that make it out to be either we draft VY or it's the death of the franchise. VY would be great, but I believe Carr can get us where we want to go if we can give him some help. We don't need a hall of famer behind center to win a superbowl.


True but if you remeber correctly that was the same thing with tim couch. thye gave him the bonus on his contract becuase they believed he had potential.:twocents:

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 11:59 AM
I think the fact that he never quit this team after year one shows his potential. It shows the fact that he cares, he's a leader, he's a man. Not one person on this board who had his talent going into his rookie year would have stuck around this krap organization after year one. Everyone and their mother knows the ridiculous BS that this team put Carr through. The fact that Carr has never once turned his back on this organization shows the fact that he is the leader of this team, that he wants to be the face of this franchise.

Vinny
01-08-2006, 12:02 PM
I think the fact that he never quit this team after year one shows his potential. It shows the fact that he cares, he's a leader, he's a man. Not one person on this board who had his talent going into his rookie year would have stuck around this krap organization after year one. This is just so absurd.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 12:03 PM
This is just so absurd.
May be absurd, but yet so bloody true.

blockhead83
01-08-2006, 12:10 PM
McClain's artical this morning, as I'm sure has already been posted elsewhere, indicated that Casserly and Co. said that they haven't singled out either Bush or Young as their choice yet. They'll be waiting to see what the new coaching staff says after seeing what FA brings. They may end up drafting Carr's replacement after all.