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awtysst
01-07-2006, 02:54 PM
I have not gotten into the whole Bush vs Young debate becuase I am honestly not sure which side I am on at the moment. I do have a question though.

Many of the discussions have centered on the idea that Carr will continue to underpreform and Young will be a superstar. My question is if Carr was able to develop to that of a solid QB and Vince Young also developed into a solid QB will we be in a bad situation?

If Vince and David both become solid qbs, does it matter which one is here or would there still be a preference to Vince since he is a Houstonian?

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 02:57 PM
I do not have an answer.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 03:00 PM
I would say that if they are both going to be solid QBs, you'd want Young because Carr has 4 years and 200+ sacks of NFL wear on him.

sprtsfanatic
01-07-2006, 03:01 PM
i dont have an answer either, but that is a big "if" in both cases...potentially Young has a bright future ahead of him, and Carr has yet to materialize into what this organization envisioned four years later...although I have to admit that most of that fault goes to the coaching staff we had...its still a big "if" to state the Carr recovers from all of the shell shock, beating, and turf burns all over his body that he has accumulated the last 4yrs.

TexanSam
01-07-2006, 03:01 PM
I don't think we'll be in a bad situation if both turn out to be solid QB's. We'll only have one of them (most likely Carr). If Carr turns into a solid, but not an elite QB but Young turns into a superstar then we'll have different opinions 5 years from now.

Many teams have gotten to the Super Bowl with QB's who aren't in the upper-echelon in the NFL though. Rich Gannon with Oakland, Kerry Collins with the Giants, Trent Dilfer with the Ravens, etc.. I don't care if Young turns out to be an awesome QB. I care about making the playoffs and going to the Super Bowl and I think Carr and QB this team to a SB, we need the supporting cast though.

swtbound07
01-07-2006, 03:02 PM
Its a pretty simple answer to me, just looking at the math. David has been in the league 4 years, and been sacked an ungodly amount of times. Young would be just coming into the league, after having played behind a line that protected pretty well. David hasnt developed into the QB we hoped he would be in those 4 years, but for the sake of arguement, lets assume the new head coach could rehab him and make him into what we thought he would be. lets assume his development would follow the same 3 year path that most qbs do....i.e drew brees. So with david, if he gets help, gets coached up, and really DOES have whatever it takes to be a franchise qb, the soonest we would get good production out of him would be year 7 of his career, and you could expect maybe 4 years after that. With vince, if you assume that the same coaching that could fix carr could teach young, then it will still take 3 years for him to develop, but he will have a lot more years left in his body than carr will. So i say 4 years of bad quarterbacking is enough, we have to cut our losses with carr and start from scratch....hopefully building through the trenches, and getting a qb that doesnt have the "happy feet" that results from getting 200 blows to the head over 4 years.

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 03:04 PM
Vince and the connection to Houston is big.

Last year we had a chance to draft D. Johnson (LB @ UT) in the 1st round but we traded down a couple of pix and by the time our pick came up again he was gone. The Texans caught major crap from the fans for this.

Now accelerate this from a local LB to a local high school legend QB who won the National Champioship, won back to back Rose Bowls, back to back Rose Bowl MVP's, 1st ever QB to pass for 2500 and rush for 1000. His leadership skills seem to be magnificent.

I strongly believe the only reason for him wanting to think about coming out is because we're picking #1. If we were #12 or something like that then he'd probably be going back no ?'s asked.

TexanSam
01-07-2006, 03:07 PM
Its a pretty simple answer to me, just looking at the math. David has been in the league 4 years, and been sacked an ungodly amount of times. Young would be just coming into the league, after having played behind a line that protected pretty well. David hasnt developed into the QB we hoped he would be in those 4 years, but for the sake of arguement, lets assume the new head coach could rehab him and make him into what we thought he would be. lets assume his development would follow the same 3 year path that most qbs do....i.e drew brees. So with david, if he gets help, gets coached up, and really DOES have whatever it takes to be a franchise qb, the soonest we would get good production out of him would be year 7 of his career, and you could expect maybe 4 years after that. With vince, if you assume that the same coaching that could fix carr could teach young, then it will still take 3 years for him to develop, but he will have a lot more years left in his body than carr will. So i say 4 years of bad quarterbacking is enough, we have to cut our losses with carr and start from scratch....hopefully building through the trenches, and getting a qb that doesnt have the "happy feet" that results from getting 200 blows to the head over 4 years.

You make it sound that Carr hasn't developed at all as an NFL QB. Not true. I'm sure he's gotten used to the speed of the NFL defenses and I'm sure he's learned how to read NFL defenses. I think Carr could be a good QB NEXT YEAR if we have an O-line to protect him. Even with a good O-line, I don't think Vince Young will be a good QB until his 2nd or 3rd year. This is just the impression I got from your post though.

edo783
01-07-2006, 05:00 PM
If we keep Carr and both are playing and Vince puts up 3,500 and Carr puts up 4,500 yards with 35 TDs and 1 int, the reply will be "But he threw an INT and Vince looked faster" or some other BS. The Carr haters will NEVER acknowledge ANYTHING that Carr does well. It will always be followed with "Ya, But". I am not against a move of Carr or what EVER the coaching staff deems as the right thing for the TEAM and not because of a bunch of "Well if they don't take him I won't be a Texans fan" type of stupid BS.

Htown34s
01-07-2006, 05:22 PM
I'm of the opinion that we should have at least seen SOMETHING from Carr during the past 4 years. At least ONE GAME we could point to and say "See, that is what he is capable of". But alas, there is none. Not one.

TexanSam
01-07-2006, 07:08 PM
I'm of the opinion that we should have at least seen SOMETHING from Carr during the past 4 years. At least ONE GAME we could point to and say "See, that is what he is capable of". But alas, there is none. Not one.

How many games have you watched exactly?

Tulip
01-07-2006, 07:10 PM
How many games have you watched exactly?

I can't answer for Steve, but I've watched 64 Texans games- 32 of them in person- and I agree with him.

Grid
01-07-2006, 07:18 PM
Carr against the Vikings that went into overtime.

Carr against the Patriots that went into overtime

Carr against the Jags where he dove in for the game winning TD

Carr against the....jags? where he had to come in with the hurt shoulder

Carr against the Chiefs where we won in Arrowhead and werent supposed to

Carr against the Cardinals where he led the offense for the second quarter and had the highest scoring quarter in Texans history.

i cant find stats for all the previous seasons.. so im going by memory.. im sure there are other games where he showed his stuff though.

Carr HAS had good games.