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Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 02:19 PM
According to this ESPN report out today...

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2283797

If this scenario plays out Bob and Casserly better pray that VY doesn't turn into a superstar and start kicking our *** every time especially in Bud duds. That would be the ultimate kick in the groin. Of course this scenario will mean MORE Titans fans in the Houston area and Texas in general. Real nice. Thanks Bob and Charlie.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 02:22 PM
It makes we want to, how you say..... puke.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 02:24 PM
I'll have a hard time forgiving this franchise if Young becomes the pro bowler I think he will become and Carr gives us more average play for Franchise money. This franchise doesn't seem to football savvy to me sometimes.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 02:24 PM
I won't believe it til I see it.

Fiddy
01-07-2006, 02:25 PM
I'll have a hard time forgiving this franchise if Young becomes the pro bowler I think he will become and Carr gives us more average play for Franchise money. This franchise doesn't seem to football savvy to me. Ditto...

VY becoming a Titan would make life unbearable...i'm picturing him in a Titans jersey :crying:

tulexan
01-07-2006, 02:25 PM
It makes we want to, how you say..... puke.

Antonio Banderes Show?

ThaShark316
01-07-2006, 02:26 PM
My prediction...

Bush taken #1...Young goes back to school.

Texans go 3-13 in 2006.

Young goes #1 to Texans in 2007.

Ok, my dream is over. :)

Tulip
01-07-2006, 02:30 PM
And THAT is my absolute worst-case scenario.

Which is probably going to happen.

I won't mind getting Reggie Bush, but the thought of my VY playing for the Titans is just awful. Good for Vince. Bad for me. It's all about MEEEEEEEEEEEEEE.

:crying:

UberDork
01-07-2006, 02:31 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but doesn't VY have some connection to Steve McNair?...I think McNair was a mentor of sorts...

aj.
01-07-2006, 02:32 PM
This is a nightmare scenario and could be the biggest sports blunder in history in this city from the perspective of losing a great player to a division rival - arguably the best football player ever to come out of Houston - and turning fans against the team by letting Bud get his hands on him. I would be beyond pissed if this happened. Yes Steve and Vince are good buds.

If Vince ends up in TN and does well, which there's no reason to believe he won't, there will be more TN fans in Houston than Houston fans in Houston. Why don't you just give the city up to Cowboys and Titans fans while you're at it Mr. McNair?

What's funny is I was about halfway through an article on this when it appeared ...

Fiddy
01-07-2006, 02:33 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but doesn't VY have some connection to Steve McNair?...I think McNair was a mentor of sorts... Yeah, McNair is VY's mentor...

I hold hope that Chow talks Fisher into taking Lineart...

Corrosion
01-07-2006, 02:35 PM
I don't know if anyone has mentioned this, but doesn't VY have some connection to Steve McNair?...I think McNair was a mentor of sorts...


Young goes to McNairs off-season QB camps .

Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 02:37 PM
Yeah, McNair is VY's mentor...

I hold hope that Chow talks Fisher into taking Lineart...

According to that article Leinart will be gone to the Saints at #2. The only way VY doesn't go to Bud is if the Saints take him instead of Leinart.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 02:39 PM
I sort of remember everyone wanting that first pick at all costs, welcome to the Terrordome.

barzilla
01-07-2006, 02:41 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion, but people were torching that USC defense all year. Heck, let's draft Brady Quinn since he torched USC. Come on folks, as amazing as Young's performance was we need some perspective here. If Young weren't from Houston some of you would be still thinking Bush. Geography shouldn't have anything to do with it. Let's go out and get the best football player.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 02:42 PM
According to that article Leinart will be gone to the Saints at #2. The only way VY doesn't go to Bud is if the Saints take him instead of Leinart.

Exactly. He will be taken at #3 unless he's already gone. :crying:

Reddevil63
01-07-2006, 02:43 PM
Thank God!

Atleast somebody knows what they are doing.

aj.
01-07-2006, 02:44 PM
This is based on one football game folks. One football game. .

No it isn't. It's based on two years of VY dominating at the NCAA Div-I level, including two Rose Bowl victories where he carried his team. He's a great talent and even greater leader. I hardly ever jock college players, much less juniors, but to pass on him would be a huge mistake and one that could set this franchise back another lifecycle.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion, but people were torching that USC defense all year. Heck, let's draft Brady Quinn since he torched USC. Come on folks, as amazing as Young's performance was we need some perspective here. If Young weren't from Houston some of you would be still thinking Bush. Geography shouldn't have anything to do with it. Let's go out and get the best football player.

I ain't from Houston, but if I was I would rather die with a local behind center than with Carr and then the local guy kicking our **** for a decade. It's junior highish from a distance, but I would be with them.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 02:44 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. I think you forget that Young started in all the Texas wins...not just the Rose Bowl. he was the first EVER QB to throw for 2500 yards and run for 1000 in NCAA HISTORY. EVERY single QB to EVER play has never done this in the long long history of College football.

Reddevil63
01-07-2006, 02:45 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion, but people were torching that USC defense all year. Heck, let's draft Brady Quinn since he torched USC. Come on folks, as amazing as Young's performance was we need some perspective here. If Young weren't from Houston some of you would be still thinking Bush. Geography shouldn't have anything to do with it. Let's go out and get the best football player.
I <3 you and your unbiased opinion. Really

beerlover
01-07-2006, 02:46 PM
According to that article Leinart will be gone to the Saints at #2. The only way VY doesn't go to Bud is if the Saints take him instead of Leinart.

that would be like lighting the fuse to total implosion :bomb: of this young franchise. some of us are struggling with the fact that Casserly is still having input, if I said it once I said it twice he is a lame duck GM now it seems he is a cancer that just continues spreading bad ideas and refuses to awknowedge mistakes.

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 02:48 PM
Ditto...

VY becoming a Titan would make life unbearable...i'm picturing him in a Titans jersey :crying:
I was a Titans fan once before, I can be one again if needed.

If we have a chance at him and pass, it would make me sick to my stomach.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 02:48 PM
that would be like lighting the fuse to total implosion :bomb: of this young franchise. some of us are struggling with the fact that Casserly is still having input, if I said it once I said it twice he is a lame duck GM now it seems he is a cancer that just continues spreading bad ideas and refuses to awknowedge mistakes.If anyone thinks we hate Casserly now...just wait till they pass on Young. McNair hasn't seen anything yet.

beerlover
01-07-2006, 02:50 PM
If anyone thinks we hate Casserly now...just wait till they pass on Young. McNair hasn't seen anything yet.

I totally agree, it will make passing on Derrick Johnson a mere blimp on the radar :rolleyes:

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 02:51 PM
that would be like lighting the fuse to total implosion :bomb: of this young franchise. some of us are struggling with the fact that Casserly is still having input, if I said it once I said it twice he is a lame duck GM now it seems he is a cancer that just continues spreading bad ideas and refuses to awknowedge mistakes.
With ya on this.
His input shouldn't even be used on the #1 pick. That seems like an Owner decision, and now the Owner has a consultant (without biases) that will help him make "The Right Decision".

Lucky
01-07-2006, 02:52 PM
If anyone thinks we hate Casserly now...just wait till they pass on Young. McNair hasn't seen anything yet.
Maybe that's why McNair kept Casserly? To take the heat in case Bush is a bust and Young is the superstar playing in the same division. I wonder who really is making the decisions at Reliant, Casserly or Reeves?

Nawzer
01-07-2006, 02:52 PM
VY had one of the greatest game's in college football history and it does play a part when Houstonians are clamoring for Young to be a Houston Texan. But VY has been outstanding this ENTIRE year not just the Rose Bowl. Time after time he has shown and proven that he is a winner and I personally think that is the most important quality to have as an athlete. If VY goes to the Titans I will be dissapointed not only because of his potential but he will go to our division rival. Both Bush and Young have unbelievable potential but both of them could be duds (although I doubt it very much) so we won't know if passing by Young is a stupid decision or not until a few years from now. But I do think that if you're going to miss you miss big. By that I mean draft VY if he's available and let's hope things work out for the best.

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 02:53 PM
I totally agree, it will make passing on Derrick Johnson a mere blimp on the radar :rolleyes:
More like a spec of dust on the back of the radar machine.

Hottoddie
01-07-2006, 02:54 PM
I'll have a hard time forgiving this franchise if Young becomes the pro bowler I think he will become and Carr gives us more average play for Franchise money. This franchise doesn't seem to football savvy to me sometimes.

You forgot to mention, "....and the Texas/USC game proved to be a precursor of what Bush wouldn't be able to do in the NFL. He still can't get around the corner against the faster players of the NFL."

aj.
01-07-2006, 02:55 PM
I wonder who really is making the decisions at Reliant, Casserly or Reeves?

According to Casserly yesterday, the "technical" questions during the interviews, i.e., x's and o's gameplanning etc., are Reeves' baby.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 02:56 PM
I totally agree, it will make passing on Derrick Johnson a mere blimp on the radar :rolleyes:


as a Texan fan that thinks this is the correct decision, here's a little help for you guys


http://www.titansonline.com/

Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 02:58 PM
No it isn't. It's based on two years of VY dominating at the NCAA Div-I level, including two Rose Bowl victories where he carried his team. He's a great talent and even greater leader. I hardly ever jock college players, much less juniors, but to pass on him would be a huge mistake and one that could set this franchise back another lifecycle.

aj, you are always the voice of reason and typically have the most thought out opinions. I was wondering when you would chime in on this issue. I tend to get a little emotional about these things (this is from being abused by Houston football my whole life..lol). Despite my board name, I like to think I don't see things through burnt orange colored glasses when it comes to the NFL. I am a bigger NFL fan that NCAA fan, always have been. If A&M had just won the National Title with VY and dominated Division I football like he did here, I don't think I would think any different about VY. I would want the best for my NFL team regardless. Your opinion only solidifies my thoughts because I know you are not a UT fan.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 02:59 PM
If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion....

I'm one of those people.

There's a reason we're hearing much more VY love regarding the draft:

1. The media. Geez, they did the same thing with Reggie Bush. He got all of his "one of the greatest ever" hype from the media after one game too. Now VY is a national, not just a state, hero.

2. Most of the local fans never dreamed until this week that VY would even BE in this draft. Now that it looks very likely, a reevaluation of the draft situation is in order.

Vince Young has a high school and college career to back up every ounce of positive attention that he's getting right now. He's no one-game wonder.

Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 03:05 PM
I'm one of those people.

There's a reason we're hearing much more VY love regarding the draft:

1. The media. Geez, they did the same thing with Reggie Bush. He got all of his "one of the greatest ever" hype from the media after one game too. Now VY is a national, not just a state, hero.

2. Most of the local fans never dreamed until this week that VY would even BE in this draft. Now that it looks very likely, a reevaluation of the draft situation is in order.

Vince Young has a high school and college career to back up every ounce of positive attention that he's getting right now. He's no one-game wonder.

Yep, I was convinced VY was staying in school so never even gave it a thought. The sick thing about Vince is that he keeps getting better and better. Anyone that watches UT every week like myself can easily tell you that. Last year I thought that there would be no way the guy could be an NFL QB. His improvement has been amazing, now I don't think there is anything he can't do.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 03:07 PM
I like a few other posters have been watching Vince do this since Madison vs. North Shore at the dome.......and the reason I want him here is because I believe he IS the best player in this year's draft, not because he was a longhorn (I'm a FSU fan, when it comes to college football) and not because he's a local guy, I want him because I think he's that damn good.

aj.
01-07-2006, 03:07 PM
... Despite my board name, I like to think I don't see things through burnt orange colored glasses when it comes to the NFL....Your opinion only solidifies my thoughts because I know you are not a UT fan.

No I'm not a 'horn and I don't own anything orange, but I was rooting like hell for the 'horns Wednesday night because it was Texas HS kids vs. California HS kids for the most part, fighting for a title on the biggest stage of them all.

I was aware of Vince as a Marlin (who wasn't) but I've really only become a 'big' fan over the last two years because of who he is as a player and a person. The more I saw him play, and improve his game, plus read about who he was - the more I liked. I follow Houston 5A football closely and to let one of our own escape - to a hated rival no less - would disgust me beyond description. I'm getting sick thinking about it.

To clarify, I have horns and ags in the family and I graduated from U of H so I've got most of the state school bases covered.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 03:08 PM
If you are pro VY, then the Texans have got to release DC.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 03:10 PM
I totally agree, it will make passing on Derrick Johnson a mere blimp on the radar :rolleyes:

You bet. There's going to be a much bigger backlash on this one. And much, much, much bigger than Ragone over Simms.

GP
01-07-2006, 03:12 PM
Sometimes just enough happens to really muddy the water...

..the Vince Young performance is one of those.

The guy was all set to stay in college before USC. But he pulls off a very good game (albeit against a verrrrry weak defense, nobody can say otherwise--ranked 39th, I think) and now the entire galaxy has been re-organized around Vince Young and how phenomenal he will be in the NFL.

Does anybdy else here see what I see?

I see a great performance against a weak USC defense, the same USC defense that allowed Fresno State to put 40-something points on the board late in the season.

I also saw a very sub-par performance by Bush who was supposed to be unstoppable. Was that LenDale White carrying the USC team on his back?

And now the most recent argument for the Pro-Vince camp is the idea of the Titans getting him and us paying for it forever.

Emotions are running high right now. People are stating their case for both Bush and for Young based upon emotional factors. Other than Vinny's stat about how VY is the only NCAA QB to pass for x-number of yards AND rush for over 1,000 yards, I have yet to see sound evidence that VY is a great pick at the top of the draft--Scouts say he has a bad delivery motion, release point, etc.

Carr capitalized on his opportunity when he got to call the shots on his own this season. How soon we seem to forget that this coaching staff squandered all the talent on this team in exchange for their own ideals and their own pride and ego.

Beg for VY or Bush all you want, I have a gut feeling we'll be seeing a monster o lineman with our first pick. Owner McNair isn't drinking the kool aid.

Carr Bombed
01-07-2006, 03:15 PM
I don't think Mcnair realizes the gamble he is taking. If he lets Vince drop to the Titans and he becomes great. Then he will have more Titan fans in his backyard then Texan fans. This could end up being catastrophic for the franchise.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 03:15 PM
If I remember correctly, David Carr spent his first years of Texans' practice partnered with a ladder.

Some things can be coached, and some can't.

Tayton
01-07-2006, 03:16 PM
Did I miss something but why would we think that NO would take Leinart instead of Young anyway. Just heard on TV that Bush declared and Texans say taking him regardless of what Young does.

dtran04
01-07-2006, 03:18 PM
This would be more of a sign that we are getting Kubiak. It's probably a done deal.

aj.
01-07-2006, 03:18 PM
As far as cutting Carr, if I invested $22 million of real money in a player and got as little out of Carr as I have in four years then, I'd really have to ask myself whether throwing another $8+ million at that investment is smart or mad money. They could always t-tag him and try a trade I guess but I haven't looked at that option at all. If they were not able to trade him off the t-tag then I guess DC would have to suck it up and play one more year here with Vince breathing down his neck. To let him go with no compensation doesn't seem like a good business move but if we lose him as a UFA there could be a compensatory pick - maybe - haven't even looked to see if that's even an option with his contract structured the way it is (since the Texans would decline to execute the option would that void the compensatory pick?).

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 03:18 PM
Did I miss something but why would we think that NO would take Leinart instead of Young anyway. Just heard on TV that Bush declared and Texans say taking him regardless of what Young does.

It will be worse for the locals if he goes to the Titans, but it may be even worse for McNair if VY went to NO.

Corrosion
01-07-2006, 03:20 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion,


First of all Bush didnt have 250 yards against Texas .... 13/80 rushing and 6/94 passing . (If you add in the LESS THAN STELLAR kick returns 5/101 then sure he had 250+ but a 20.2 avg is just that ... AVERAGE) .... Throw in a bone headed turn over for good measure and you have a great game by the best player in college football .

http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/live/NCAAF_20060104_USC@TX

Second of all . Young has done this ALL YEAR . Did you watch Ohio St. vs UT earlier this year ? Oh by the way , Vince Young was the most efficient QB in college football THROWING the ball this season , not for just ONE game .
Young is 30-2 as a starter at UT playing in arguably the toughest conference in all of college football (Big 12 / SeC are a toss up) .... A National Champoinship , TWO Rose Bowl MVP's ....Yeah , thats ONE GAME .

Thirdly and probably most important .... Before the Rose Bowl Vince Young had stated MANY Times that he would return to UT for his senoir year .... There was NO DEBATING Bush / Young #1 prior to this date .

I also saw a very sub-par performance by Bush who was supposed to be unstoppable. Was that LenDale White carrying the USC team on his back?

Thats exactly what we saw .... Bush wasnt even the best RB on his team much less the best in the nation ..... At least for that ONE GAME ....

dtran04
01-07-2006, 03:21 PM
It will be worse for the locals if he goes to the Titans, but it may even worse for McNair if VY went to NO.


Agreed. I'm more scared of Leinart goin to the Titans. He'll be with Chow and be light years ahead of most rookie QB's. He'll be playing the same system and have probably the best transistion. With Vince, they would have to change their offense quite a bit.

GP
01-07-2006, 03:21 PM
Surely this is speculation. I can't even begin to see this franchise already voicing who they will take just a few days into their offseason. Please, football gods, say it ain't so--If this franchise is announcing this...we are fans of the dumbest-operated NFL team in the league.

link (full story is below) : http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2283797

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 03:21 PM
If you are pro VY, then the Texans have got to release DC.
Career suicide if Carr doesn't request a trade.
Scenarios:
1. We keep him and draft Young. Well the 1st int. in a home game the fans will boo the total crap out of him (worse than ever before) or cheer loudly because it's one step closer to Young on the field.

2. We keep him and do not draft Young. And we keep losing (let's say Bush gets hurt on his 1st carry and is out with a season ender). Then he'll be viewed as the one who kept the local kid out of his hometown team. Then imagine Young with the Titans and all the Young jerseys at Reliant when they come to town. Heck, he'll get a Standing O when the announcer announces the visitors.

His agent needs to start the ground work for a trade now if he knows what best for his client.

Of course this all pivots on whether Young declares by the 15th

GP
01-07-2006, 03:25 PM
I TOLD you Dan Reeves had fallen in love with Carr, and I TOLD you that Reeves was definitely the catalyst and orchestrator behind Carr calling the plays for a half of a game. The results of that situation sealed our fates.

This is so anti-climactic. I mean....unless this is just a HUGE smoke-screen, we're putting Bush in steel blue. And "Yes," we'll be seeing exactly what I also said: Young dutifully holding the clipboard and watching his mentor from the sidelines.

Ugghh.....me not feel so good....

rmartin65
01-07-2006, 03:26 PM
A lineman would be a better pick than either Bush or Young. No point in getting a franchise player if you cant keep them off their butt.

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 03:33 PM
A lineman would be a better pick than either Bush or Young. No point in getting a franchise player if you cant keep them off their butt.
no point in drafting a linemen with no franchise players to protect.:bomb:

The Dream
01-07-2006, 03:39 PM
^^^exactly Big B, players like Vince are a dime dozen, there will be plenty of linemen along the way.......God I have the worst feeling that Vince will turn out to be good, and be in a Titan's uniform :brickwall ................hopefully these reports are just rumours.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 03:39 PM
no point in drafting a linemen with no franchise players to protect.:bomb:

lol: Too funny.

RTP2110
01-07-2006, 03:41 PM
Everyone keeps worrying that if we pass on VY and he goes to TEN and destroys us year in and year out. Well, what if we trade Carr away, he goes somewhere and has a Hall of Fame career, then we draft Young, and he turns out to be a bust?? Either scenario COULD happen, and either road the Texans take will be second guessed.

MorKnolle
01-07-2006, 03:41 PM
First of all Bush didnt have 250 yards against Texas .... 13/80 rushing and 6/94 passing . (If you add in the LESS THAN STELLAR kick returns 5/101 then sure he had 250+ but a 20.2 avg is just that ... AVERAGE) .... Throw in a bone headed turn over for good measure and you have a great game by the best player in college football .

http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/live/NCAAF_20060104_USC@TX

Second of all . Young has done this ALL YEAR . Did you watch Ohio St. vs UT earlier this year ? Oh by the way , Vince Young was the most efficient QB in college football THROWING the ball this season , not for just ONE game .
Young is 30-2 as a starter at UT playing in arguably the toughest conference in all of college football (Big 12 / SeC are a toss up) .... A National Champoinship , TWO Rose Bowl MVP's ....Yeah , thats ONE GAME .

Thirdly and probably most important .... Before the Rose Bowl Vince Young had stated MANY Times that he would return to UT for his senoir year .... There was NO DEBATING Bush / Young #1 prior to this date .



Thats exactly what we saw .... Bush wasnt even the best RB on his team much less the best in the nation ..... At least for that ONE GAME ....

Vince was actually the 3rd most efficient passer this year, and if you configure those on an NFL rating system that drops him to about #8 just out of the top 10 (this was done in a post about a month ago). The Big 12 is far from the best conference in college football anymore, maybe two years ago. Last year the Big 12 South was decent but the North was terrible, and this year both werre terrible. The SEC and ACC are clearly better, the Big 10 is better, and the Pac-10 and Big East are even pushing the Big 12 this year. Vince has not been putting up that good of a game all year, you could just as easily point out his poor game against A&M as you could his good game against Ohio St. Reggie Bush has been performing all season long as well. That said, I'm a fan of trading down anyways as I don't see Bush being much of an upgrade over Davis as our main RB and I don't want to spend that much on him to be a part-time guy, and I don't see how Vince is supposed to come in and be an improvement over Carr whatsoever, plus I see many other teams wanting these guys and giving us nice trade offers to trade down and fill the holes that we have.

Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 03:43 PM
we are fans of the dumbest-operated NFL team in the league.

As long as "Dumber" is still calling the shots I think that might be a good assumption. I just might have to redo my avatar with "Dumb and Dumberer", having Bob McNair being the "Dumberer" for keeping "Dumber" around.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 03:44 PM
what if we trade Carr away, he goes somewhere and has a Hall of Fame career,


The only way David Carr has a hall of fame career is if another hall of fame QB dresses up in his uni with the name Carr on the back of his jersey..............David Carr = average.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 03:46 PM
Well, what if we trade Carr away, he goes somewhere and has a Hall of Fame career.....:lol: most hilarious post of the day!

:homer:

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 03:52 PM
^^^exactly Big B, players like Vince are a dime dozen, there will be plenty of linemen along the way.......God I have the worst feeling that Vince will turn out to be good, and be in a Titan's uniform :brickwall ................hopefully these reports are just rumours.
Thanx for the props Dream-

If Young stays in school and the Titans wind up with him before we gotta chance to get 'em then cool, but..........if we pass on him in this draft or the next, then piss on this team. I'll be dusting off my Titans apparel that hasn't seen the light of day for the past 4 years.

LoneStarState
01-07-2006, 03:52 PM
I think you forget that Young started in all the Texas wins...not just the Rose Bowl. he was the first EVER QB to throw for 2500 yards and run for 1000 in NCAA HISTORY. EVERY single QB to EVER play has never done this in the long long history of College football.

How many games did VY play all 4 quarters? And what were the ranks of each of the defenses he played against?

Vinny
01-07-2006, 03:55 PM
How many games did VY play all 4 quarters? And what were the ranks of each of the defenses he played against?I donno, but College football has been around longer than we have been alive...and I'm 41. I'd call his accomplishment..."historic"

RTP2110
01-07-2006, 03:56 PM
:lol: most hilarious post of the day!

:homer:


Ok, hall of fame was obviously going overboard, but he could have a very successfull career somewhere else.

Question: How am I labeled a homer? At least Im not one of the ones doing backflips for Vince Young just because he's from Houston. How come nobody is suggesting that the Texans draft Matt Leinart? Know why, because we don't need to draft a QB.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 03:57 PM
How come nobody is suggesting that the Texans draft Matt Leinart? Know why, because we don't need to draft a QB.


Cause Matty isn't Vincent Young.....that's why.

BREAZE
01-07-2006, 03:59 PM
If you have been a Houston fan for a while then deep down you have to be gringing at this scenerio...even if you don't want VY. If VY becomes a Titan then with our luck him winning rings for Tenn. is almost a certainty. "The curse of VY". I've been a Houston fan for along time and it would only make since this plays out.

Steve McNair took VY under his wing and became a mentor/father figure for a while now. He could keep mentoring him his 1st couple of years as a Titan...a great situation for VY.

Bob McNair might as well pack up the franchise and change the name to the Los Angeles Califorians if this happens to play out over the years...

LoneStarState
01-07-2006, 03:59 PM
I donno, but College football has been around longer than we have been alive...and I'm 41. I'd call his accomplishment..."historic"

Maybe... Some think Ryan Leaf had "historic" games, too. And before all the crap gets flung my way... I AM NOT COMPARING VY TO RYAN LEAF.

I was talking to an orangeblood about the game and they kept saying "but we beat the number 1 team." I told them USC was #1 because of their offense. They didn't know that USC had the 39th ranked defense... a defense that gave up 40+ pts to Fresno State. Once realizing that - they laid off the kool-aid a little.

Before VY is deemed the be-all end-all - I would just like to know more about the games he played the past 2 years and the defenses he played against.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 03:59 PM
Does everyone remember the good old days when there was only two factions - Carr Lovers vs Carr Haters? Such a simpler time. Anybody gotta scoop of Blue Bell?

Corrosion
01-07-2006, 04:01 PM
That said, I'm a fan of trading down anyways as I don't see Bush being much of an upgrade over Davis as our main RB and I don't want to spend that much on him to be a part-time guy, and I don't see how Vince is supposed to come in and be an improvement over Carr whatsoever, plus I see many other teams wanting these guys and giving us nice trade offers to trade down and fill the holes that we have.


Neither would be in Immediate upgrade . Bush would not see 25 touches a game splitting time w/ DD ..... Young wouldnt see the field for at least a year ..... probably two .

The trade value of this first pick could prove to be a franchise builder ....


Prior to the USC / UT game I had been on the fence about trading down or taking Bush (Young wasnt in the equasion) .... He didnt show me enough to warrant taking him #1 ....


No , Vince didnt have a great game Vs T A&M ..... but didnt they play @ A&M and isnt that one of the biggest rivalry games in college football ? I would expect a close game ... Also the defense was designed to stop Young and force someone else to beat them (Ramonce Taylor 15/102 2 TDs).Youngs passing stats werent Horrible in that game but were quite ordinary . 13/24 162 w/ 1td and 1int.

http://www.sportsline.com/collegefootball/gamecenter/live/NCAAF_20051125_TX@TXAM

Tulip
01-07-2006, 04:02 PM
Does everyone remember the good old days when there was only two factions - Carr Lovers vs Carr Haters? Such a simpler time. Anybody gotta scoop of Blue Bell?

And I never had fun because I was always so apathetic about Carr. Now he's getting in the way, so my patience with him is has worn very thin very quickly.

LoneStarState
01-07-2006, 04:04 PM
I know that those wanting VY will support the Texans after he is drafted, but you still support the team if he is drafted and in 2 years, the Texans are 2-14? A 2-14 season under VY is just a likely as it is that he will be the best pro player in the history of the game...

Vinny
01-07-2006, 04:06 PM
Ok, hall of fame was obviously going overboard, but he could have a very successfull career somewhere else.

Question: How am I labeled a homer? At least Im not one of the ones doing backflips for Vince Young just because he's from Houston. How come nobody is suggesting that the Texans draft Matt Leinart? Know why, because we don't need to draft a QB.Only a true homer would think that Carr is on any sort of HOF track after 60 NFL starts. He has never thrown for a combined 2+TD's plus 201 yards in a win...ever. Not once....its half a decade next year...year FIVE.

OzzO
01-07-2006, 04:07 PM
That's the way it is boys and girls - draft is a c-shoot at times and Bush, Young, Leinhart will go to Texans, Saints, Titans.... not necessariliy in that same order and assuming no trade down and Young declares.

I just find it amusing that before the Rosebowl there might have been 3 or 4 posters that were pro-Young with the rest divided among Bush and trade down camps. Most of the radio talk and talking heads was Bush was the savior and defintely the first pick. Guess Young is the one in the HOF now.

Understandable, all are fans and want what's best for the team - but to note that if the Texans don't pick the player you want, you're jumping ship... well, here's your life-preserver... have fun.

I'm personally in the 4th camp - bring in a quality HC and coordinators, we'll work on GM later if need be. Bob has gotten a little smarter, Reeves is consulting, Casserly's on a shorter leash - we'll see what happens.

The Texans will get a quality player with the first pick, hopefully to save some "fandom" - they get the one that applies to you this day... week... month? Assuming Casserly pulls better players in rounds 2 and 3 as well to contradict his previous performance.

If Young goes to the Titans, good luck to him. He most likely will be comfortable there with McNair his camp leader.... better get his track shoes on though to shoot out from the shotgun formation, don't recall McNair having many people to throw too last year.

swtbound07
01-07-2006, 04:07 PM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion, but people were torching that USC defense all year. Heck, let's draft Brady Quinn since he torched USC. Come on folks, as amazing as Young's performance was we need some perspective here. If Young weren't from Houston some of you would be still thinking Bush. Geography shouldn't have anything to do with it. Let's go out and get the best football player.


I've favored most players over reggie bush, i've been consistent in the fact i think he will be an absolute bust.

aj.
01-07-2006, 04:09 PM
At least Im not one of the ones doing backflips for Vince Young just because he's from Houston.
.

Me either.

I'm doing backflips because the Texans have a shot at a QB who is a game chnger, a rare athlete with outstanding leadership skills who will win at the next level - it's in his makeup. But the fact that he's one of our own makes it even more special - and more devastating if we lose him.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 04:11 PM
I just find it amusing that before the Rosebowl there might have been 3 or 4 posters that were pro-Young with the rest divided among Bush and trade down camps. Most of the radio talk and talking heads was Bush was the savior and defintely the first pick. Guess Young is the one in the HOF now.



I've been wanting VY, but he kept saying he was gonna stay another year, so he was out of the pic......but he is hinting he wants to come out now, so yes I want dude in a texans uni.

Hookem Horns
01-07-2006, 04:13 PM
I've been wanting VY, but he kept saying he was gonna stay another year, so he was out of the pic......but he is hinting he wants to come out now, so yes I want dude in a texans uni.

He is hinting that he wants to be a Texan, all the more special.

Big B Texan Fan
01-07-2006, 04:14 PM
I just find it amusing that before the Rosebowl there might have been 3 or 4 posters that were pro-Young with the rest divided among Bush and trade down camps. Most of the radio talk and talking heads was Bush was the savior and defintely the first pick. Guess Young is the one in the HOF now.

That's because he said I'm coming back to school. Then after the game he said I gotta talk with the Family etc... Excuse the doo-doo out of us for believing him. Have you never changed your mind?

Fiddy
01-07-2006, 04:17 PM
How many games did VY play all 4 quarters? Which makes it all the more impressive...

Nawzer
01-07-2006, 04:17 PM
VY said he was gonna go back to school and it looked like he really was going to and he still might, but the situation has changed and we'll know about his final decision in a few days. Everyone in Houston who is a football fan is a fan of VY it's not an overnight thing that just happened. There was always that possibility lurking in every Texan's fans mind and now it might just come true. We'll just have to wait and see...

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:19 PM
You people have lost your damn minds. Before the Rose Bowl Reggie Bush was GOD on this board. True, Vince Young had an amazing performance, but it was one game against a weak defense. I'm sorry aj, but Vince has not "dominated" for the past two years. Last year, NFL scouts wanted to turn him in to a WR. Remember? It wasn't until the Rose Bowl last year that VY broke out.

What almost every one of you is forgetting is that Bush was the BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL for the whole year. Sorry but, one game doesn't change that. Plus he had a pretty damn good performance against a STRONG Texas defense. 13 carries for 80 yards is over 6 yards per carry. 6 receptions for 90 something yards is over 15 per reception.

Get a grip people. For some of you to say Bush had a "subpar" performance is down right RETARDED. Bush looked electric turning the corner and in the open field in that game. I can't wait to see this guy in a Texans uni.

Vince is a much bigger risk than Bush for a couple of reasons:

-He not close to the passer that Carr is, just doesn't have the arm strength.
-He won't be able to scramble like he does in college.
-He will be coming to play behind the same horrible pass blocking line that Carr played behind.

Let's fix the line, get a new coach, and not give up on our first pick in the draft 4 years ago. Many of you forget Carr was progressing nicely before this last season. And then lets get the best player in College. REGGIE BUSH!!!!

GP
01-07-2006, 04:20 PM
I see you made good on your idea to switch avatars, hook 'em. Nice.

Yeah, why does VY have to flirt with Houston during all this? Totally frustrated by this situation. :confused:

You'd think that if he was going to turn pro...he would have done it by now. Which makes me think he's not exactly liking his prospects with the top few teams. In short: He wants the Texans, but they don't want him. He wants the Titans, but the Saints stand in the way at number 2 and he sure doesn't want to play for New Orleans if he's as smart and legendary as he's being made out to be. BTW, Saints are in a horrible spot because NOBODY wants to go there.

Oh well, I guess the only source of pleasure I get from all this is that Leinart The Arrogant (by virtue of staying "one more year") is pretty much going to New Orleans and you know he's barfing over THAT. Tee-hee-hee....

OzzO
01-07-2006, 04:20 PM
Nope, never hcnaged my mind Big B. No need for the calling out - even though I don't think I directed the opinion at you.

Besides, if he does come here - great, love to have him. But I'll leave it up to those that get paid for the decision to make it and won't result in me heading to another team if they don't.

My point I guess, was that we'll end up with one of the "3 players" that will help the team unless we do trade down - so I'm not to worried about other teams picking up the other 2.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 04:21 PM
What almost every one of you is forgetting is that Bush was the BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL for the whole year. Sorry but, one game doesn't change that. Only according to ESPN and the the foolish Heisman voters who look dumb at this point. Funny how all the VY bashers point to "ONE GAME" when UT averaged 50 points a game and Young set historic records...one game at a time.

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:28 PM
Only according to ESPN and the the foolish Heisman voters who look dumb at this point. Funny how all the VY bashers point to "ONE GAME" when UT averaged 50 points a game and Young set historic records...one game at a time.

I'm not a hater, just don't think we should give up on Carr. I'd like to see him mentored by a offensive minded coach like Kubiak. I love the idea of having Carr, AJ, Bush, and DD on the field at the same time. I love the idea of finding a coach that can find creative ways to use Bush whether if it's lining up in the backfield, or in the slot. I also think RB is a huge need for this team being that DD can't stay healthy.

Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry on the year, and 30 yards per touch down, scoring 19. I just feel like he's the game breaker we need.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 04:31 PM
Bush averaged 8.9 yards per carry on the year, and 30 yards per touch down, scoring 19. I just feel like he's the game breaker we need.Bush didn't have any more impressive stats than JJ Arrington last year, and Denny Green is looking for another back this year...Also, Desmond Howard was the last great Heisman winning open field runner (ie slash/kick returner) that was unstoppable in College....Casserly drafted him too. We may be getting the Desmond Howard of Running backs....when backs are a dime a dozen around the NFL. We have a chance to change our fortunes with a Franchise QB....and they are hard to come by. I'd love us to take a chance on greatness instead of pouring good money after bad...but thats just me.

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:32 PM
Vinny you used to be the voice of reason on this board. While every body as having knee jerk reactions, you would try to right the ship, calm everybody down.

Well that's exactly what is happening here. Before the Rose Bowl it was all Bush, nobody was talkin VY. After ONE GAME, all that has changed.

What happened man?

blockhead83
01-07-2006, 04:33 PM
The most surprising thing about Young's performance vs. Texas A&M isn't that we held him to 162 yards passing, it was that we held him to 19 yards rushing on 11 attempts..... our self-admittedly pathetic defense smothered Vince Young through the air and on the ground, ruining his chances at the Heisman. He looked horribly mediocre that game.

Everyone's buying into the VY hype right now, just as everyone was buying into the Bush hype in recent weeks. I see Vince Young turning into Steve McNair in the NFL, the quarterback who's a great leader and a special playmaker because he's nearly impossible to bring down. I would probably be happier drafting Young over Bush at this point, but I won't crestfallen if we pass on Young. Like many have stated, the draft is somewhat of a crapshoot, how many "sure things" have ended up being busts? Too many to count, and you can say that Vince Young will be successful in the NFL all you want but you're going to have to wait years before declaring who's right on the issue. I think Young'll be special, but there's still plenty of quarterbacks I'd much rather have. It's easy to be critical of the front office no matter who they choose in these situations, so I'm preaching patience and to be reasonable in your criticism. It's not like we won't be having a very similar argument, just with new names, every year for the rest of the franchise's lifetime.

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:33 PM
We may be getting the Desmond Howard of Running backs.....

.....Or the Andre Ware of Quarter Backs.....I hardly think that Bush is comparable to JJ Arrington.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Vinny you used to be the voice of reason on this board. While every body as having knee jerk reactions, you would try to right the ship, calm everybody down.

Well that's exactly what is happening here. Before the Rose Bowl it was all Bush, nobody was talkin VY. After ONE GAME, all that has changed.

What happened man?I just give football opinion and I don't agree with you. That's what happened. If you search my history you will see that I have called Vince Young a "future NFL superstar" for well over a year. Everyone knows I am not high on David Carr to boot...this is nothing new for me. We are now in position to take him....and I will let the Texans know how I feel as a fan. Simple.

Lucky
01-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Steve McNair took VY under his wing and became a mentor/father figure for a while now. He could keep mentoring him his 1st couple of years as a Titan...a great situation for VY.
I think McNair is about to be due a $50 million roster bonus. Obviously, they would have to renegotiate that in order to keep Steve. But, McNair would still want to be paid and I don't think many teams can afford to keep 2 high priced QBs on their roster. Especially not the cap-strapped Titans. Look for Billy Volek to do the mentoring if Tennessee selects Vince.

Fiddy
01-07-2006, 04:35 PM
Vinny you used to be the voice of reason on this board. While every body as having knee jerk reactions, you would try to right the ship, calm everybody down.

Well that's exactly what is happening here. Before the Rose Bowl it was all Bush, nobody was talkin VY. After ONE GAME, all that has changed.

What happened man? Just so you know, me and Vinny have been the drivers of the VY bandwagon forever. It's just we didnt think he would come out.

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:36 PM
I just give football opinion and I don't agree with you. That's what happened. If you search my history you will see that I have called Vince Young a "future NFL superstar" for well over a year. Everyone knows I am not high on David Carr to boot...this is nothing new for me. We are now in position to take him....and I will let the Texans know how I feel as a fan. Simple.

Fair enough.

Vinny
01-07-2006, 04:36 PM
.....Or the Andre Ware of Quarter Backs.....I hardly think that Bush is comparable to JJ Arrington.You are the one that threw out the stats...I just mentioned a back from the last draft that had the same stat line.

pskinny
01-07-2006, 04:40 PM
You are the one that threw out the stats...I just mentioned a back from the last draft that had the same stat line.

I don't remeber JJ's stats in college, but I'll take your word for it. Regardless, a weak comparison.

TexanSam
01-07-2006, 04:44 PM
This is the smart decision. Take Bush or trade down. I don't give a crap if Vince Young is from Houston, he's not the answer to the Texans problems. Bush isn't either and I'd rather have them trade down, but I'll take Bush over Vince.

aj.
01-07-2006, 04:47 PM
I just find it amusing that before the Rosebowl there might have been 3 or 4 posters that were pro-Young with the rest divided among Bush and trade down camps. Most of the radio talk and talking heads was Bush was the savior and defintely the first pick. Guess Young is the one in the HOF now.
.

Before the Rose Bowl, Vince had yet to drive home the fact that he is the best player in college football. He knew it. His teammates knew it. Some of his fans knew it. But on that night, he made sure that millions more would know it. Chief Osceola couldn't have driven it home any better.

Great players have signature games where you look at them differently after as compared to before. I think it's more an evolution of knowledge or awareness in this case, and not so much hype as you infer.

pv1999
01-07-2006, 04:55 PM
Just so you know, me and Vinny have been the drivers of the VY bandwagon forever. It's just we didnt think he would come out.

Thank you.
If we knew that there would be a chance of VY coming out this year AND having the first pick there might have been some Battle Orange days at Reliant this year. Everyone liked BUSH because we he was the best player that we knew would be there. Now that Vince may come out, he is the best player out there because he is just better than Reggie. And I will say that unless something drastic happens like the return of Chris Palmer or something, VY will produce more than Bush. Where ever he goes. And everything will return to normal in Houston as we watch yet another one get away....

BREAZE
01-07-2006, 05:18 PM
Just so you know, me and Vinny have been the drivers of the VY bandwagon forever. It's just we didnt think he would come out.

NOBODY DID!!! This debate and point is way old and stupid. Had VY said at the start of 2005 it would be his last year at UT this board would have been flooded with VY talk.

I'm beginning to think some of you making this dumb aurgument saw VY for the 1st time Wed...

tiger06
01-07-2006, 05:21 PM
Maybe we think that by stating early that we're gonna take Bush, Vince will think more about staying, giving us a shot at him next year.

travfrancis
01-07-2006, 05:21 PM
glad to see some of the most respected posters on this forum hold the same belief that i do.

Marcus
01-07-2006, 05:22 PM
Some of you need to calm down and think for a minute. The Texans have yet to even hire a head coach. They're going to need the head coach's input and talk over offensive philosophy before they can even seriously discuss personnel requirements, or who they are going to take in the draft.

On top of that, Bob McNair doesn't have his head in the sand to the point where he doesn't recognize the business and marketing significance of bringing Vince Young to Houston.

C'mon! This is Chris Mortenson, for God's sake.

Hasn't anyone heard of trial balloons?

pv1999
01-07-2006, 05:23 PM
Hope this QB from UT is better than the last QB from UT in the pros.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 05:26 PM
Hope this QB from UT is better than the last QB from UT in the pros.

He may not be having a great first quarter, but he is QBing in the playoffs this year.

Marcus
01-07-2006, 05:28 PM
Hope this QB from UT is better than the last QB from UT in the pros.

If you're talking about Chris Sims, you might want to wait a few years and talk to John Gruden about that one.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 05:30 PM
Hope this QB from UT is better than the last QB from UT in the pros.

They are both better than Major.

edo783
01-07-2006, 05:35 PM
Me, I HOPE it is true and all the whinning BS'es moves over to the Titanics board and we can get back to actually discussing the Texans and what they are doing and not the flavor of the week saviour who has the cure for cancer and walks on water. Damn I am tired of all this.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 05:36 PM
They are both better than Major.

That's "The Major", says Brent Musburger.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 05:38 PM
Lets get this straight,

Bad coaching
No line
Bad play calling
Dropped balls from your #1 WR every game this year
and a RB that can not score the big one.
AND you want this guy to play better then average?
Wait I forgot about our stud Defense!

It is statements like this that should put everyone on the same page. We should not be paying a QB first pick money if he is not good enough to make a difference. We can pay someone league minimum and get the same results.

Marcus
01-07-2006, 05:40 PM
Me, I HOPE it is true and all the whinning BS'es moves over to the Titanics board and we can get back to actually discussing the Texans and what they are doing and not the flavor of the week saviour who has the cure for cancer and walks on water. Damn I am tired of all this.

You ain't the only one. It's gotten to the point where I hope both of em decide to stay in school. I'd laugh myself sick if that happened.

The Dream
01-07-2006, 05:46 PM
that would not be funny

Corrosion
01-07-2006, 05:47 PM
NOBODY DID!!! This debate and point is way old and stupid. Had VY said at the start of 2005 it would be his last year at UT this board would have been flooded with VY talk.

I'm beginning to think some of you making this dumb aurgument saw VY for the 1st time Wed...


Doubt we would have heard a word about Reggie Bush if Vince had said he was coming out early . Not in this state ....


You ain't the only one. It's gotten to the point where I hope both of em decide to stay in school. I'd laugh myself sick if that happened.


If that happens .... the value of that #1 pick plummets

pv1999
01-07-2006, 05:48 PM
Me, I HOPE it is true and all the whinning BS'es moves over to the Titanics board and we can get back to actually discussing the Texans and what they are doing and not the flavor of the week saviour who has the cure for cancer and walks on water. Damn I am tired of all this.

Then Logoff.

Go play some golf, Go to the Park and feed the pigeons. I love it.

We have struggled through the season from hell so we could debate who we would take if we could have anybody. Carr deserves a chance to be successful elsewhere before he gets too old, kinda reminds me of Reggie White who had never won a championship on any level of football until the Superbowl. Carr has been good for us but we owe him to let him go. He won't win here. That means a franchise QB makes since, so its a good idea to get excited about him. Now I don't know about water in to wine or any of that other stuff but if he can give us more wins than Bud's Team, He is worth every minute.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 05:50 PM
Me, I HOPE it is true and all the whinning BS'es moves over to the Titanics board and we can get back to actually discussing the Texans and what they are doing and not the flavor of the week saviour who has the cure for cancer and walks on water. Damn I am tired of all this.


it will ...... as soon as Bush breaks a long run

aj.
01-07-2006, 05:55 PM
Lets get this straight,

Bad coaching
No line
Bad play calling
Dropped balls from your #1 WR every game this year
and a RB that can not score the big one.
AND you want this guy to play better then average?
Wait I forgot about our stud Defense!


And what will it be next year, "give him a season or two to get used to the new offense?" You don't need to make excuses for the really good ones because they usually find ways to adapt and overcome.

WILLIEG
01-07-2006, 05:59 PM
I've never seen someone like VY take so much pride in where he is from and show the amount of kleadership he posses on the field. He's a natural born leader and that isn't something you learn how to be , its just something your born with. Carr might have the potential to be great but Vy is already great and basically they would be learning a whole new Offensive Scheme. I know Carr's got the NFL experience but I realistically don't see us heading to the playoffs this year and I'm sure there will still be O-line problems that will be much of the continuing topic of discussions on the message board. Why not pick VY up so at least he can make things happen with his instints until the new Offensive Scheme is learned and the problem with the O-line takes care of its self. We have all been waiting for the potential long enough in Houston and if we continue to base players on their potential then it's a fact that VY coming out as a Junior rather DC coming out as a senior has more potential than that of DC currently. That's the truth and it's clear to see. Leaders (VY)are born not molded (DC)!

ArlingtonTexan
01-07-2006, 06:04 PM
You don't need to make excuses for the really good ones because they usually find ways to adapt and overcome.

I attempted to say this about Carr a year or so ago only to be met with this of excuses. At some point if Carr was special he would have made a way.

Can Carr look like a good NFL Qb if you put him behind a really good line, give him a quality RB, two or three above average WRs, and coach who understand what he does well? Of course. Then again there are 50 guys floating around the NFL I could say that about.

Htown34s
01-07-2006, 06:10 PM
This is based on one football game folks. One football game.

Riiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiiight.
:confused: :confused:
:brickwall :brickwall

Hottoddie
01-07-2006, 06:11 PM
You ain't the only one. It's gotten to the point where I hope both of em decide to stay in school. I'd laugh myself sick if that happened.

Then we could take our new Franchise LT (D'Brick). :drool: I've been for trading down all along, but Vince Young sure has me thinking a little differently now.

Texans_Chick
01-07-2006, 06:12 PM
This is a nightmare scenario and could be the biggest sports blunder in history in this city from the perspective of losing a great player to a division rival - arguably the best football player ever to come out of Houston - and turning fans against the team by letting Bud get his hands on him. I would be beyond pissed if this happened. Yes Steve and Vince are good buds.

If Vince ends up in TN and does well, which there's no reason to believe he won't, there will be more TN fans in Houston than Houston fans in Houston. Why don't you just give the city up to Cowboys and Titans fans while you're at it Mr. McNair?

What's funny is I was about halfway through an article on this when it appeared ...

This is so right it is scary.

No it isn't. It's based on two years of VY dominating at the NCAA Div-I level, including two Rose Bowl victories where he carried his team. He's a great talent and even greater leader. I hardly ever jock college players, much less juniors, but to pass on him would be a huge mistake and one that could set this franchise back another lifecycle.

This too hits the mark.

2006 is both the grand opportunity and gift, and also the perfect storm. Us with the top pick. Hometown hero, and in my belief, the best player in the draft possibly available. (And if there were a post bowl recount of the Heisman, those voters would be agreeing too). New Orleans, right down the street and with eyes on San Antonio with the second pick, and the evil in-conference nemesis, the Titanhicks with the 3rd pick.

Personally, I have never been sold on the Bush pick but was OK with it unless we got a blockbuster deal.

VY in a Texans uniform would benefit us:

1. On the field. He is such a competitor, I could never bet against him. Just as a shorthand comment, Mike Vick was taken with the first pick in 2001--VY has better college stats and a better NFL body. People claiming VY as the first pick is a reach, I do not understand.
2. In the clubhouse: VY obviously has a lot of personal charisma. I think he would be a good addition in that regard.
3.. In marketing. He would put people in the seats--this matters to winning because it gives us a better home field advantage. If we do the "unpopular but 'right' thing"--maybe it works or maybe it doesn't, but it doesn't help to p.o. the casual fan. We pick up VY, we are instantly the coolest team in the league. We need some of that.
4. In preventing VY from going somewhere else. He'd be popular in New Orleans and make me weep in TN. A QB touches every snap on offense--VY doing that for TN kills me more than Bush doing the same over there.


I have to say that I am not a big Carr detractor like some, and think he might end up being good under a new system with better players around but maybe not. Who knows? Carr might do better with a new start somewhere else without the "HEB don't like sacks" baggage, instead of trying to prove himself better than the hometown hero QB who ended up in N.O. or gag, TN. People talk about the pressure that VY would have in Houston--it would be nothing like the pressure Carr would be faced with in facing a VY led TN twice a year.

Seriously, I feel so strongly about it that I've been praying to God every night to get VY to the Texans. Praying about the NFL draft for pete's sake! I've never ever felt so strongly about a draft pick in any sport ever. At the risk of blaspheming and whatnot, I don't think God pays much attention to the NFL, but if He does, He is giving Houston a gift at VY at #1 and we should appreciate the blessings we have been provided.

Bongo59
01-07-2006, 06:18 PM
I think McNair is about to be due a $50 million roster bonus. Obviously, they would have to renegotiate that in order to keep Steve. But, McNair would still want to be paid and I don't think many teams can afford to keep 2 high priced QBs on their roster. Especially not the cap-strapped Titans. Look for Billy Volek to do the mentoring if Tennessee selects Vince.salary cap woes are over..........after Mac deal is redone we will be 19 million under.............nice try..............now take Bush so we can make it truly hurt the next 15 yrs.................Carr deserves a chance with new coaching and a new OL but i think his contract make this a toughie to swollow.................I'd get him to cut his deal right now or just cut him.................you guys cant afford to trade him because it would kill your 06 cap to do so

The Dream
01-07-2006, 06:19 PM
Seriously, I feel so strongly about it that I've been praying to God every night to get VY to the Texans. Praying about the NFL draft for pete's sake!

Don't worry you're not the only one.

WILLIEG
01-07-2006, 06:19 PM
This is so right it is scary.



This too hits the mark.

2006 is both the grand opportunity and gift, and also the perfect storm. Us with the top pick. Hometown hero, and in my belief, the best player in the draft possibly available. (And if there were a post bowl recount of the Heisman, those voters would be agreeing too). New Orleans, right down the street and with eyes on San Antonio with the second pick, and the evil in-conference nemesis, the Titanhicks with the 3rd pick.

Personally, I have never been sold on the Bush pick but was OK with it unless we got a blockbuster deal.

VY in a Texans uniform would benefit us:

1. On the field. He is such a competitor, I could never bet against him. Just as a shorthand comment, Mike Vick was taken with the first pick in 2001--VY has better college stats and a better NFL body. People claiming VY as the first pick is a reach, I do not understand.
2. In the clubhouse: VY obviously has a lot of personal charisma. I think he would be a good addition in that regard.
3.. In marketing. He would put people in the seats--this matters to winning because it gives us a better home field advantage. If we do the "unpopular but 'right' thing"--maybe it works or maybe it doesn't, but it doesn't help to p.o. the casual fan. We pick up VY, we are instantly the coolest team in the league. We need some of that.
4. In preventing VY from going somewhere else. He'd be popular in New Orleans and make me weep in TN. A QB touches every snap on offense--VY doing that for TN kills me more than Bush doing the same over there.


I have to say that I am not a big Carr detractor like some, and think he might end up being good under a new system with better players around but maybe not. Who knows? Carr might do better with a new start somewhere else without the "HEB don't like sacks" baggage, instead of trying to prove himself better than the hometown hero QB who ended up in N.O. or gag, TN. People talk about the pressure that VY would have in Houston--it would be nothing like the pressure Carr would be faced with in facing a VY led TN twice a year.

Seriously, I feel so strongly about it that I've been praying to God every night to get VY to the Texans. Praying about the NFL draft for pete's sake! I've never ever felt so strongly about a draft pick in any sport ever. At the risk of blaspheming and whatnot, I don't think God pays much attention to the NFL, but if He does, He is giving Houston a gift at VY at #1 and we should appreciate the blessings we have been provided.


I totally feel the same way and agree with you.

Htown34s
01-07-2006, 06:19 PM
It all boils down to this:

If McNair passes on Vince but the Titans don't, and Vince has success in the NFL, then Bob McNair will have wasted $1 Billion dollars for nothing. I predict a backlash toward the Texans that could cripple this franchise until McNair is forced to sell or move.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

T_Guru
01-07-2006, 06:21 PM
salary cap woes are over..........after Mac deal is redone we will be 19 million under.............nice try..............now take Bush so we can make it truly hurt the next 15 yrs.................Carr deserves a chance with new coaching and a new OL but i think his contract make this a toughie to swollow.................I'd get him to cut his deal right now or just cut him.................you guys cant afford to trade him because it would kill your 06 cap to do so

Preach!:redtowel:

The Dream
01-07-2006, 06:22 PM
It all boils down to this:

If McNair passes on Vince but the Titans don't, and Vince has success in the NFL, then Bob McNair will have wasted $1 Billion dollars for nothing. I predict a backlash toward the Texans that could cripple this franchise until McNair is forced to sell or move.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

^^^exactly..........TAKE VY, PLEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAS SE!!! (sorry to sound like a little kid)....this is destiny!!!!

Bongo59
01-07-2006, 06:23 PM
Hope this QB from UT is better than the last QB from UT in the pros.............Mr Simms has looked pretty good this yr friend..............i think Mack Brown and his Offensive staff had more do do with stunting Simms development given how he has blossomed under Gruden............................VY young is a runner so it is hard to screw him up when he pulls it down when he cant find his progressions or read a D........................

barzilla
01-07-2006, 06:45 PM
Most of you have made very good cases for VY and have supported him all along. Like I said before, I respect that opinion. This is what I would say to that.

1) The number one pick is important for YOUR franchise. I don't care who the Titans will pick. I don't care where Vincent Young or Reggie Bush are from. The number one pick should be the ultimate meritocracy. Some of you have made good arguments for Young on that point and some of you still seem stuck on the fact that he's from Houston and would go to the Titans.

2) Being the highest rated passer in college football doesn't mean you will succeed at the next level as a passer. Michael Vick was the number one rated passer his last season in college and he isn't a good passer. I'm not saying Young will be another Vick, but the fact that he was the highest rated passer is not PROOF of anything except for the fact that he was the best college QB this season. You will get no argument from me on that front.

3) "The first QB to pass for 2500 yards and run for 1000 yards." This is what my wife would call "random *** stats." I could find guys that passed for 3000 yards and maybe ran for 700 or 800. He's a great double threat and we'll leave it at that.

However, the body of work was great. I have a couple of concerns about Young though:

1) He did have a few down games (like A&M) where defenses were able to game plan for him. USC could game plan all they wanted, but they didn't have the players as proven by bad games against Notre Dame and Fresno State. Bush had a "down" game, but for him a down game was nearly five yards per carry and nearly 100 yards recieving. Overall, it wasn't what people expected, but it shows that neither player is Superman.

2) Young made good reads in the title game but some of his throws weren't that good. Yes, he went 30 for 40, but there were a lot of times that he threw off-target throws that were caught low to the ground or otherwise off target. Those players were wide open. They won't be wide open like that at the next level.

3) Realistically, we could expect Young to take a couple of years to adapt to the NFL. He took a couple of years to adapt to the NCAA, so we can reasonably expect the same at the next level. Running backs usually make an immediate impact. I like Bush because of his versatility. However, I recognize there are durability concerns with him as well.

Overall, even though it might seem I'm being negative, I would not be unhappy if we selected either player. It's a coin flip in my mind and I pick Bush for the reasons I elaborated on. Since it's a coin flip you can certainly offer very compelling reasons why you think Young is the guy. However, I think it is misrepresentation to say the Texans would be making an OBVIOUS mistake by passing on Young. We're a better team with either in my opinion.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 06:52 PM
good post Barzilla

Texans_Chick
01-07-2006, 06:55 PM
Most of you have made very good cases for VY and have supported him all along. Like I said before, I respect that opinion. This is what I would say to that.

1) The number one pick is important for YOUR franchise. I don't care who the Titans will pick. I don't care where Vincent Young or Reggie Bush are from. The number one pick should be the ultimate meritocracy. Some of you have made good arguments for Young on that point and some of you still seem stuck on the fact that he's from Houston and would go to the Titans.

2) Being the highest rated passer in college football doesn't mean you will succeed at the next level as a passer. Michael Vick was the number one rated passer his last season in college and he isn't a good passer. I'm not saying Young will be another Vick, but the fact that he was the highest rated passer is not PROOF of anything except for the fact that he was the best college QB this season. You will get no argument from me on that front.

3) "The first QB to pass for 2500 yards and run for 1000 yards." This is what my wife would call "random *** stats." I could find guys that passed for 3000 yards and maybe ran for 700 or 800. He's a great double threat and we'll leave it at that.

However, the body of work was great. I have a couple of concerns about Young though:

1) He did have a few down games (like A&M) where defenses were able to game plan for him. USC could game plan all they wanted, but they didn't have the players as proven by bad games against Notre Dame and Fresno State. Bush had a "down" game, but for him a down game was nearly five yards per carry and nearly 100 yards recieving. Overall, it wasn't what people expected, but it shows that neither player is Superman.

2) Young made good reads in the title game but some of his throws weren't that good. Yes, he went 30 for 40, but there were a lot of times that he threw off-target throws that were caught low to the ground or otherwise off target. Those players were wide open. They won't be wide open like that at the next level.

3) Realistically, we could expect Young to take a couple of years to adapt to the NFL. He took a couple of years to adapt to the NCAA, so we can reasonably expect the same at the next level. Running backs usually make an immediate impact. I like Bush because of his versatility. However, I recognize there are durability concerns with him as well.

Overall, even though it might seem I'm being negative, I would not be unhappy if we selected either player. It's a coin flip in my mind and I pick Bush for the reasons I elaborated on. Since it's a coin flip you can certainly offer very compelling reasons why you think Young is the guy. However, I think it is misrepresentation to say the Texans would be making an OBVIOUS mistake by passing on Young. We're a better team with either in my opinion.


If you believe, like I do, that a VY coming out would be the best player in the draft, you do not want such a player to go to the Titanhicks. In division. Horrible deluxe, and you can't ignore that. QB touches every offensive snap. (as opposed to however the heck number of times you are supposed to use Bush).

But that being said, and with me thinking VY IS the best choice no matter where he was from........

As much as some want this to be just a input in, output out kinda decision--put in the data, spit out a result--you cannot ignore the emotion that would be felt if VY becomes a flaming meatball in TN. Trying to make this a strictly, what would Mr. Spock do decision can't work--football is played in front of human beings, it ain't just Madden, and we need our casual fans to be really cool with what we do.

Lucky
01-07-2006, 06:55 PM
...you guys cant afford to trade him because it would kill your 06 cap to do so
Nice try, but there would only be about a $750K difference in the cap between trading Carr or keeping him.

Here's a story from the world's sports leader (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2274759) on McNair's contract status. McNair seems confident that he can play another 3 or 4 years.

Steve McNair's health isn't a question as the season ends. Now, it's money and a $50 million option bonus due this offseason that poses the biggest obstacle to the quarterback returning to the Tennessee Titans in 2006.

If the Titans actually pay the money, McNair's base salary and the prorated bonus would count for $26.8 million against the salary cap next year.

McNair said Thursday he is confident they can agree on a new deal and that he is open to playing for three or four more years if needed.

If the Titans kept McNair & drafted Vince, they'd likely have over $70 million invested in the QB position over the next 4-5 years. If they are out of cap hell, they'd be right back in with that kind of cap management.

CyberTexan
01-07-2006, 07:08 PM
after the rose bowl I too like many of you had 2nd thoughts on picking Bush or Young but after thinking about it long and hard and reading every piece of info I could find I have to say everything points to picking Bush that is the best choice by far . You have to keep in mind Youngs performance was against the 39th ranked defense , if you think about the games he had against A&M and Oklahoma to name a couple it wasnt near as good actually almost dissaster . Young wont be able to play like the rose bowl game against the NFL theres no way . Look at Vick sure he wins for that team sometimes but he gets hurt alot and for long periods of time and he has never taken that team to the big game and Vick is alot faster than Young . Picking Young will be like starting over too will take 2 or 3 years at least to develope where as Bush will be an imediate help not only as a HB but as a WR too wouldnt it be nice to have Bush and Davis sharing the running duties plus having Bush as another WR threat. So in my mind Bush is still the right way to go. I dont think our team is that bad as we are sure we need some help here and there but I think it was just poorly coached and they underachieved .

TD
01-07-2006, 07:12 PM
It all boils down to this:

If McNair passes on Vince but the Titans don't, and Vince has success in the NFL, then Bob McNair will have wasted $1 Billion dollars for nothing. I predict a backlash toward the Texans that could cripple this franchise until McNair is forced to sell or move.

Sorry, just the way I see it.

Same could be said if it went just the opposite and Bush has a great career for the Titans and Vince is a bust for the Texans.

IMO there are THREE great choices for the number one pick and it would be hard to fault the Texans for taking any one of them. But if we're gonna keep Carr, then Bush is the way to go.

Bongo59
01-07-2006, 07:14 PM
Nice try, but there would only be about a $750K difference in the cap between trading Carr or keeping him.

Here's a story from the world's sports leader (http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2274759) on McNair's contract status. McNair seems confident that he can play another 3 or 4 years.



If the Titans kept McNair & drafted Vince, they'd likely have over $70 million invested in the QB position over the next 4-5 years. If they are out of cap hell, they'd be right back in with that kind of cap management.....................maybe you should read this then.................http://www.websitetoolbox.com/tool/post/titanscentral/vpost?id=841365

DRAMA
01-07-2006, 07:22 PM
You people have lost your damn minds. Before the Rose Bowl Reggie Bush was GOD on this board. True, Vince Young had an amazing performance, but it was one game against a weak defense. I'm sorry aj, but Vince has not "dominated" for the past two years. Last year, NFL scouts wanted to turn him in to a WR. Remember? It wasn't until the Rose Bowl last year that VY broke out.

What almost every one of you is forgetting is that Bush was the BEST PLAYER IN COLLEGE FOOTBALL for the whole year. Sorry but, one game doesn't change that. Plus he had a pretty damn good performance against a STRONG Texas defense. 13 carries for 80 yards is over 6 yards per carry. 6 receptions for 90 something yards is over 15 per reception.

Get a grip people. For some of you to say Bush had a "subpar" performance is down right RETARDED. Bush looked electric turning the corner and in the open field in that game. I can't wait to see this guy in a Texans uni.

Vince is a much bigger risk than Bush for a couple of reasons:

-He not close to the passer that Carr is, just doesn't have the arm strength.
-He won't be able to scramble like he does in college.
-He will be coming to play behind the same horrible pass blocking line that Carr played behind.

Let's fix the line, get a new coach, and not give up on our first pick in the draft 4 years ago. Many of you forget Carr was progressing nicely before this last season. And then lets get the best player in College. REGGIE BUSH!!!!


What he said!! :)

scourge
01-07-2006, 07:23 PM
I am not a big fan of college football. Not a big fan of High School football. Dont care about Longhorns or Aggies. If I cared about hometown heroes would've been going hysterical for the Texans to pick up Clint Stoerner, Rocky Bernard, or saying don't worry, there's always Drew Tate next year, etc. And I think David Carr could easily be a pro bowl qb... in the right system.

Having said that, the Texans entire front office is absolutely retarded if they don't pick Vince Young. Other than clips on SportsCenter, I've never watched an entire game of college football in my life until that Rose Bowl. And Ive watched it twice now. VY has the skills and more importantly the leadership qualities this team deparately needs. If I thought for a second that Bush could actually run between tackles at the NFL level(which he can't seem to do at the college level), then I wouldn't care which one we chose. But VY's record, stats, and leadership are too good to pass up, no matter how much it may cost to dump Carr.

Htown34s
01-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Having said that, the Texans entire front office is absolutely retarded if they don't pick Vince Young. Other than clips on SportsCenter, I've never watched an entire game of college football in my life until that Rose Bowl. And Ive watched it twice now. VY has the skills and more importantly the leadership qualities this team deparately needs.

Scourge, if you liked that game then you owe it to yourself to watch last years Rose Bowl against Michigan and this years game at Ohio State. Of course, you can watch any Longhorn game from the last two years, VY does the same thing every single game. He is incredible.

Marcus
01-07-2006, 07:29 PM
Under his current contract, McNair is due base salaries of $9 million (2006), $11 million (2007), $13 million (2008) and $15 million (2009). Toss in the $50 million roster bonus and the total comes to a prohibitive $73 million for the next four years. But McNair isn't looking to be prohibitive. If anything, he has adopted a proactive stance, in announcing he wants to return and be a major component in reversing the Titans' fortunes.

D'yup! Having Vince Young as backup should make the Titans real cap-happy to say the least.lol:

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 07:31 PM
D'yup! Having Vince Young as backup should make the Titans real cap-happy to say the least.lol:

I heard somewhere, and yes it is hearsay, that McNair would be released and resigned and that somehow the cap hit would not be significant. Can anyone corroborate that?

Grid
01-07-2006, 07:33 PM
my dream scenario is to have the Titans trade up with us to get Young(giving us their 1st and 2nd this year..and 2nd next year)...then the saints take Matt Lienart, and we get Reggie Bush and the 2 2nd rounders.

Dunno if someone already mentioned this scenario in this thread.. i imagine they probably have.. but that would rock so much in needs to be repeated :)

Magnahorn
01-07-2006, 07:39 PM
The Texans better not draft Bush without even considering Young unless they want to alienate all Longhorn fans forever. Personally, I don't think Bush is the kind of player you waste a number one first pick in the draft draft choice on.

If I were the Texans' GM (Casserly should be replaced BTW) I would trade down and get some O-line help.

It doesn't matter who your skill position players are if you can't block anyone.

Grid
01-07-2006, 07:41 PM
The Texans better not draft Bush without even considering Young unless they want to alienate all Longhorn fans forever. Personally, I don't think Bush is the kind of player you waste a number one first pick in the draft draft choice on

see.. thats not right. This is the NFL, not College Footbal Part 2. If you are a Texans fan.. BE a Texans fan. You can disagree with the decisions, but boycotting the team because they didnt make "YOUR" pick, that just aint right. Sometimes what is best for the team isnt what you want.

Marcus
01-07-2006, 08:01 PM
The Texans better not draft Bush without even considering Young unless they want to alienate all Longhorn fans forever. Personally, I don't think Bush is the kind of player you waste a number one first pick in the draft draft choice on.

The priorities of the Texans should be in this order:

1) Don't alienate Longhorn fans
2) Hire a new head coach
3) Hire new coordinators
4) Discuss offensive and defensive philosophy
5) Draft the players who will help the team win

But always remember No.1 . . . don't alienate any Longhorn fans.

:brickwall Christ! I'm gonna be sick!

edo783
01-07-2006, 08:10 PM
see.. thats not right. This is the NFL, not College Footbal Part 2. If you are a Texans fan.. BE a Texans fan. You can disagree with the decisions, but boycotting the team because they didnt make "YOUR" pick, that just aint right. Sometimes what is best for the team isnt what you want.

On Target and true Grid. I am getting real tired of the Burnt Orange terrorist type threats on this subject. "if you don't take our guy, the University of Texas nation will boycott".

Hervoyel
01-07-2006, 08:27 PM
I'll have a hard time forgiving this franchise if Young becomes the pro bowler I think he will become and Carr gives us more average play for Franchise money. This franchise doesn't seem to football savvy to me sometimes.


That's a legitimate concern. I just hope that the change of coaches and systems does what it's expected to do and David Carr starts looking like the QB he was expected to be. Since I've come down strongly on the side of "It's the coaches" I'm still firmly in the Reggie Bush camp. I think Vince needs to wait another year before coming out myself.

Hervoyel
01-07-2006, 08:31 PM
The Texans better not draft Bush without even considering Young unless they want to alienate all Longhorn fans forever. Personally, I don't think Bush is the kind of player you waste a number one first pick in the draft draft choice on.

If I were the Texans' GM (Casserly should be replaced BTW) I would trade down and get some O-line help.

It doesn't matter who your skill position players are if you can't block anyone.


Should you have an avatar that looks like this?

http://valuecarpetonline.com/texas-ar.jpg

I think the one you're wearing is all wrong for you.

tulexan
01-07-2006, 08:34 PM
I'm sure they will consider Vince Young...consider him not to be the best fit for the team that is.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 08:42 PM
Should you have an avatar that looks like this?


I think the one you're wearing is all wrong for you.

OK. Am I the only one who noticed that this poster said:

A) that not considering Vince Young and settling on Reggie Bush now -when Vince is also considered a top-level draft pick, mind you- would alienate Longhorn fans.

B) the Texans should trade down instead of picking either of them.

How are either of those "blind orange" statements?

LoneStarState
01-07-2006, 09:00 PM
Which makes it all the more impressive...

Not really... could mean that he was playing against bad defenses and piled on the points...

Texanfan4ever
01-07-2006, 09:28 PM
You people are amazing! You change with the wind depending on which way the wind is blowing. I for one, am glad you are not on our decision making team....:texflag:

Tulip
01-07-2006, 09:34 PM
You people are amazing! You change with the wind depending on which way the wind is blowing. I for one, am glad you are not on our decision making team....:texflag:

This statement is such a broad generalization that I can't even figure out who "you people" refers to.

Fiddy
01-07-2006, 09:36 PM
Not really... could mean that he was playing against bad defenses and piled on the points... In less than 3 full quarters of play...I find that impressive. You can do something never done before without playing the whole game most of the time.

Titanic
01-07-2006, 10:00 PM
Mcnair has a 50 million dollar bonus coming up. We can pay 1 million to void his contract, then sign him to a new deal without taking a hit from what is left from his old deal. At least that is how I understand it. To me either us somehow getting Bush or us getting VY and him sitting behind Mac for a couple of years is perfect.

Hervoyel
01-07-2006, 10:04 PM
OK. Am I the only one who noticed that this poster said:

A) that not considering Vince Young and settling on Reggie Bush now -when Vince is also considered a top-level draft pick, mind you- would alienate Longhorn fans.

B) the Texans should trade down instead of picking either of them.

How are either of those "blind orange" statements?

No you're not the only one. The idea that angering Longhorn fans could possibly even matter in the slightest amount though is inherintly a "blind orange" sentiment. Longhorn fans should be thrilled to have themselves another national title (took them long enough) but to think that how they feel about a decision that any NFL team makes is unbelievable arrogance.

The Texans are probably just as concerned with upsetting the UTEP fanbase if the truth be told. They spend exactly as much time worrying about whether Eastern Illinois alumni are satisfied with the players they've chosen.

I was cheering for UT the other night and generally have no real NCAA "passion" aside from following it to see who's coming to the NFL (Ok, I tend to root for all Texas teams come Bowl season and against the rest of the country unless they're playing Alabama) but a few days of reading these *****ic posts about what Longhorn fans think has me sick to death of them.

I'm at the point now where I want to see Vince Young in black and gold playing in the Superdome with rats running across the field. Anything to end the constant drone of demands, whines, and threats of the Longhorn fans.

pv1999
01-07-2006, 10:05 PM
Mcnair has a 50 million dollar bonus coming up. We can pay 1 million to void his contract, then sign him to a new deal without taking a hit from what is left from his old deal. At least that is how I understand it. To me either us somehow getting Bush or us getting VY and him sitting behind Mac for a couple of years is perfect.

I was kinda glad to see the Bud Titans suck this year. Now I am kinda pissed that whoever we don't get will be playing in Graceland. You guys have officially taken the joy out of this draft thing.:brickwall

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 10:09 PM
Wow, I have not really noticed many Longhorn posters as I have seen a group talking about one Longhorn poster. Lots of barking, lots of chatter. Threads dead baby, threads dead.

aj.
01-07-2006, 10:11 PM
Now I am kinda pissed that whoever we don't get will be playing in Graceland.

Graceland is in Memphis. The Titans play in Nashville.

Ryan71780
01-07-2006, 10:16 PM
Vince Young is great, and will make a great Pro, but we should pick Bush. He is a special player and won't need a few years to make a difference. And all of you that have given up on Carr, will realize over the next couple of years that you are wrong and he is a franchise QB.

pv1999
01-07-2006, 10:17 PM
Graceland is in Memphis. The Titans play in Nashville.

Who cares, if it's not in Houston.

Texans_Chick
01-07-2006, 10:21 PM
Just got a message from someone who knows me too well:

Just heard it reported that The Texans have committed to David Carr and will be selecting Reggie Bush.

The Saints are said to be picking Leinart.

Leaving Vince Young to the Titans.



I believe the only thing you would hate more would be the Cowboys getting Young.


If Jerry Jones could manage that, and VY was the successful QB that I think he will be, well, I can't even contemplate what that would do to me. Any time I even try to think of that scenario, I get nauseated and woozy and think my brain might splode.

I would have a hard time dealing.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 10:25 PM
Just got a message from someone who knows me too well:




If Jerry Jones could manage that, and VY was the successful QB that I think he will be, well, I can't even contemplate what that would do to me. Any time I even try to think of that scenario, I get nauseated and woozy and think my brain might splode.

I would have a hard time dealing.


yea but aren't you looking forward to the anticipation of a touchdown every time Bush gets the ball? We've yet to have a player (cept maybe AJ) that brings you to your feet when he finds a glimmer of daylight ...

edo783
01-07-2006, 10:28 PM
yea but aren't you looking forward to the anticipation of a touchdown every time Bush gets the ball? We've yet to have a player (cept maybe AJ) that brings you to your feet when he finds a glimmer of daylight ...

I think Mathis might be another one.

Tulip
01-07-2006, 10:29 PM
Just got a message from someone who knows me too well:




If Jerry Jones could manage that, and VY was the successful QB that I think he will be, well, I can't even contemplate what that would do to me. Any time I even try to think of that scenario, I get nauseated and woozy and think my brain might splode.

I would have a hard time dealing.

To me, the Titans would be worse. As much as I hate the Cowboys, the Texans only play them once every four years instead of twice every year.

But the thought of the Cowboys taking him is also nauseating.

chuckm
01-07-2006, 10:29 PM
I think Mathis might be another one.


you are correct sir

Tulip
01-07-2006, 10:30 PM
I think Mathis might be another one.

Definitely. I don't get that anticipation with AJ though, because I'm so accustomed to him having to run out of bounds immediately after the catch.

CowboysTexansFan
01-07-2006, 11:13 PM
I was greatly impressed with VY's performance in the Rose Bowl and think he will eventually be a fantastic NFL player. Legitimate, reasonable arguments can be made that we should dump Carr and take VY with the first pick, though I don't believe we should do that.

Like some of the other posters, however, I'm put off with the crybaby attitude of some in the UT crowd :crying:, who are threatening to pick up their marbles and go home if the Texans don't draft their little Vincy-poo. :crying:

Grow up! Not every Texans fan bleeds burnt orange, and the team will have overwhelming support in this city if it starts winning, Vince or no Vince.

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 12:33 AM
I'm put off with the crybaby attitude of some in the UT crowd :crying:, who are threatening to pick up their marbles and go home if the Texans don't draft their little Vincy-poo. :crying:

Grow up! Not every Texans fan bleeds burnt orange, and the team will have overwhelming support in this city if it starts winning, Vince or no Vince.

Couldn't have said it better myself... :redtowel:

CITY CAT
01-08-2006, 02:03 AM
Vince Young is good friends with Air Mcnair and would love to learn behind him.

kbourda
01-08-2006, 04:02 AM
Everyone is talking about how much this is a simple decision. This is based on one football game folks. One football game. It's a football game where Bush had more than 250 all-purpose yards I'll add. If you can sit there and honestly tell me you would have favored Young over Bush BEFORE the game then I'll respect that opinion, but people were torching that USC defense all year. Heck, let's draft Brady Quinn since he torched USC. Come on folks, as amazing as Young's performance was we need some perspective here. If Young weren't from Houston some of you would be still thinking Bush. Geography shouldn't have anything to do with it. Let's go out and get the best football player.

I'll say this. You can go back as far as you like on me. I said before the college season started that I would take Young over Leinart, period. I have always been a Young supporter. I think he is a victim of a stigma placed on "scrambling" QB's. It's funny you mention Brady Quinn, cause he would be the only other QB who has made a huge leap from their Sophmore season to Junior season. It's funny how Quinn, who throws in a controlled passing game (you know 10 yds here, 5yds there, maybe 20 yds later), is just the greatest thing since buttered bread. Absolutely amazing!

Cupps
01-08-2006, 04:59 AM
Wow... just wow. My head hurts just flipping through all of this debate. I'm happy to see that every is amped and has an opinion on who we should take with this number one pick, and I think that we have a few options that can be really beneficial.

1.)Draft Bush - He's a special player, you can't argue it. Okay, so thirty die-hard UT fans think he'll be a bust versus the thousands of sports analysts and scouts that are calling him the next coming of Gale Sayers. Who do you think is more likely to be right? He'd be "the best player available," and I'd love to see him in Houston. Think Shaun Alexander or LT, Bush could have a huge impact here.

2.)Draft VY - Okay, this works from a marketing point of view, but when we go 2-14 the next four years and are in cap Hell, how does this help the franchise? We have thousands of holes to fill, and a franchise QB is NOT one of them, no matter how much everyone loves VY. He's going to be benchwarmer for two or three years in the NFL anyways, and needs a lot of work to be a pro quarterback. Vick aside (he's a mediocre passer at best), VY-types don't do very well in the NFL. NFL defenses are exponentially faster than in college, and VY won't be able to run like that in the pro's, it's a fact.

3.)Trade down and take D'Brickishaw Ferguson! - Why has nobody thought about this possibility? I know we're blinded by the media and the UT love here, but c'mon now. We're all Texans fans, and we know what needs the most help, our O-LINE! Think Pace or Ogden, they're huge now. This pick is worth so much, why not trade down to spot 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 and take a great LT, and get some extra picks to fill more holes. OLs aren't exciting, but we need it.

I vote Bush or D'Brickishaw... but that's just from a fan who wants his TEAM to get better, and not to just make himself happy by taking a hometown hero. Call me nuts.

Oh, and for those that are threatening to boycott... there's the door. Have fun.

bckey
01-08-2006, 05:17 AM
3.)Trade down and take D'Brickishaw Ferguson! - Why has nobody thought about this possibility? I know we're blinded by the media and the UT love here, but c'mon now. We're all Texans fans, and we know what needs the most help, our O-LINE! Think Pace or Ogden, they're huge now. This pick is worth so much, why not trade down to spot 2 or 3 or maybe even 4 and take a great LT, and get some extra picks to fill more holes. OLs aren't exciting, but we need it.


Actually it has been thought of and discussed. You can't tell because of the Bush and Young threads since the Rose Bowl. Before the Rose Bowl it was either draft Bush or trade down and DBrick came up quite a bit as the one to take.

Texans_Chick
01-08-2006, 09:54 AM
Grow up! Not every Texans fan bleeds burnt orange, and the team will have overwhelming support in this city if it starts winning, Vince or no Vince.

QB or RB or whatever, of course, the team will have support if it wins. But that might take a while.

VY gets you some instant good will that might carry over until the winning really begins.

Our team lacks depth, the kind of depth that takes drafts a long time to fix because rookies make mistakes.

Teams with the first pick are usually not terribly good teams. Not really making much of a point with this, but it is interesting to look at this:

All of the RB's that were the number one pick since the unified draft:

1969 Buffalo O.J. Simpson, RB, USC
1977 Tampa Bay Ricky Bell, RB, USC
1978 Houston Earl Campbell, RB, Texas
1980 Detroit Billy Sims, RB, Oklahoma
1981 New Orleans George Rogers, RB, South Carolina
1986 Tampa Bay Bo Jackson, RB, Auburn
1995 Cincinnati Ki-Jana Carter, RB, Penn State

Teams that picked a QB #1:

1970 Pittsburgh Terry Bradshaw, QB, Louisiana Tech
1971 New England Jim Plunkett, QB, Stanford
1975 Atlanta Steve Bartkowski, QB, California
1983 Baltimore John Elway, QB, Stanford
1987 Tampa Bay Vinny Testaverde, QB, Miami-FL
1989 Dallas Troy Aikman, QB, UCLA
1990 Indianapolis Jeff George, QB, Illinois
1993 New England Drew Bledsoe, QB, Washington State
1998 Indianapolis Peyton Manning, QB, Tennessee
1999 Cleveland Tim Couch, QB, Kentucky
2001 Atlanta Michael Vick, QB, Virginia Tech
2002 Houston David Carr, QB, Fresno State
2003 Cincinnati Carson Palmer, QB, USC
2004 San Diego Eli Manning, QB, Mississippi

I think 2 of those teams won a Super Bowl with that quarterback. Pittsburgh won it 5 years after drafting Bradshaw and Dallas won it 4 years after drafting Aikman. Drew Bledsoe did not appear in the Super Bowl when New England won its first.

RB's 0/7. QB's 2/14 (so far)

You could do this with almost every position. Mostly teams that get the #1 pick don't win the Super Bowl. Heck, mostly teams don't win the Super Bowl. 7 teams have won 26 of the 39.


Anyhow, I don't see us having an above .500 season next year no matter who we draft. It would be a real stretch. So, finding ways to win AND preserve good will with the fans ain't a bad idea.

Texans_Chick
01-08-2006, 09:59 AM
To me, the Titans would be worse. As much as I hate the Cowboys, the Texans only play them once every four years instead of twice every year.

But the thought of the Cowboys taking him is also nauseating.

Yeah, but are more Crypokes fans around Houston. And most of them are already insufferable. VY in those colors would be an affront to all that is holy.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 10:03 AM
Teams with the first pick are usually not terribly good teams. Not really making much of a point with this, but it is interesting to look at this:

All of the RB's that were the number one pick since the unified draft:

1969 Buffalo O.J. Simpson, RB, USC
1977 Tampa Bay Ricky Bell, RB, USC
1978 Houston Earl Campbell, RB, Texas
1980 Detroit Billy Sims, RB, Oklahoma
1981 New Orleans George Rogers, RB, South Carolina
1986 Tampa Bay Bo Jackson, RB, Auburn
1995 Cincinnati Ki-Jana Carter, RB, Penn State

Teams that picked a QB #1:

1970 Pittsburgh Terry Bradshaw, QB, Louisiana Tech
1971 New England Jim Plunkett, QB, Stanford
1975 Atlanta Steve Bartkowski, QB, California
1983 Baltimore John Elway, QB, Stanford
1987 Tampa Bay Vinny Testaverde, QB, Miami-FL
1989 Dallas Troy Aikman, QB, UCLA
1990 Indianapolis Jeff George, QB, Illinois
1993 New England Drew Bledsoe, QB, Washington State
1998 Indianapolis Peyton Manning, QB, Tennessee
1999 Cleveland Tim Couch, QB, Kentucky
2001 Atlanta Michael Vick, QB, Virginia Tech
2002 Houston David Carr, QB, Fresno State
2003 Cincinnati Carson Palmer, QB, USC
2004 San Diego Eli Manning, QB, Mississippi

I think 2 of those teams won a Super Bowl with that quarterback. Pittsburgh won it 5 years after drafting Bradshaw and Dallas won it 4 years after drafting Aikman. Drew Bledsoe did not appear in the Super Bowl when New England won its first.

RB's 0/7. QB's 2/14 (so far)

The only thing I would add is that you have to take into consideration the institution of the Salary Cap in 1993 if you are building any models off of historical data.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 10:47 AM
Sorry if this has already been posterd, but I just saw it this morning:

http://sports.espn.go.com/nfl/news/story?id=2283797

Jack Bauer
01-08-2006, 10:56 AM
This is a nightmare scenario and could be the biggest sports blunder in history in this city from the perspective of losing a great player to a division rival - arguably the best football player ever to come out of Houston - and turning fans against the team by letting Bud get his hands on him. I would be beyond pissed if this happened. Yes Steve and Vince are good buds.

If Vince ends up in TN and does well, which there's no reason to believe he won't, there will be more TN fans in Houston than Houston fans in Houston. Why don't you just give the city up to Cowboys and Titans fans while you're at it Mr. McNair?

What's funny is I was about halfway through an article on this when it appeared ...

This is ridiculous. If anyone on this board can honestly say that could "overlook" how Bud screwed the city and become Titans fans, I say go for it. I would rather not have you (speaking to all in this camp) as a Texans fan. It is insulting to me as a Texans fan to have people like this as part of my fan family.

If we do NOT select Vince and he goes on to a remarkable HOF career, I will be happy for him, but I will still remain a loyal Texans fan. The draft, even at the top, is a crapshoot. Just because the fan base is clamoring for a player does NOT mean it is in the best interest of the organization to choose him. We tend to become emotional about players. It is the organization's responsibility to take the emotion out of the decision. NO good business decision is made on emotions.

I am NOT saying that VY is NOT the right choice for the Texans, I haven't decided yet. But, I have gotten over the emotional high of the Rose Bowl. I want to look at more of VY's game before I make a decision.

beerlover
01-08-2006, 11:17 AM
I want to look at more of VY's game before I make a decision.

why have you not ALREADY watched more Vince Young games? how do you think he got the scholarship to Texas in the 1st place? if you had paid attention you would know by now that Vince has dazzeled and amazed with every new challege & while past performance is no quarantee of future performace his game should transcend to the next level as well as anyone elses who has ever come out of College and stepped onto a football field.

Jack Bauer
01-08-2006, 11:28 AM
why have you not ALREADY watched more Vince Young games? how do you think he got the scholarship to Texas in the 1st place? if you had paid attention you would know by now that Vince has dazzeled and amazed with every new challege & while past performance is no quarantee of future performace his game should transcend to the next level as well as anyone elses who has ever come out of College and stepped onto a football field.

I have watched his games. It does NOT mean I have focused specifically on him. I want to go back and look at the games he has played and see if I see anything different from another perspective. He has looked great this year, but that does NOT translate into the NFL necessarily. He has a lot going for him. His leadership and competitive spirit to say the least.

However, I would NOT say his 200 yards rushing would "transcend to the next level" by any means.

I am not saying I would not want to take him, but the thought of fans in this city abandoning our team for BUD????? :brickwall

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 11:31 AM
I've said this before and I'll say it again: I don't think VY is going to be any better than Vick. If Houstonians want to have Mike Vick on their team, then trade for VY in Madden 2007. VY does nothing but zone-read, which does not translate well into the NFL. I have more faith in Chris Mortenson and his contacts saying that most QBs in the NFL today are better than VY ever will be than what I saw against a lousy USC D during the Rose Bowl.

Coach C.
01-08-2006, 11:35 AM
BigTexan I doubt that every QB in the NFL is better than VY. I think VY will turn into a very competent QB. Randall Cunningham=Vincent Young.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 11:35 AM
Vince will be lucky to get 80 yards rushing in a game in the NFL

beerlover
01-08-2006, 11:50 AM
frankly I don't give a damn how many yards he rushes or pass'es for, all that really matters is winning. Vince Young will provide whichever team he plays for in the NFL a better probability to win its that simple, its not just singular abilties its also the positive affect he instill's in his teamates, they play inspired & feel they WILL WIN GAMES BECAUSE VINCE YOUNG GIVES THEM THAT CONFIDENCE and this is not coming from a :homer: the winning % does not lie.

BKW_75
01-08-2006, 11:52 AM
I guess I need to go buy some Titans gear! I don't think Reggie will live up to the HYPE he has been given in the press. He is too small, and will not be able to carry the ball 25 times per game. Where will he fit in with the Texans? We already have the fastest guy in the NFL returning kicks/punts, so his speed there won't matter. We actually have a pretty decent running game (even behind the "terrible" o-line.......hmmmm, maybe it's not the line after all.......maybe it's an incompetent QB with absolutely NO confidence or poise in the pocket.) I really think that drafting Bush will alienate the players in the two good areas the Texans actually have. Regardless of VY, Bush will be a bust in the NFL. We saw what a little speed on defence can do to his game. In the NFL, that will be magnified greatly. I will hate to see the Texans waste the first overall draft pick to take a return man when we already have one of the best in the league.:bomb:

tulexan
01-08-2006, 11:55 AM
Reggie Bush will probably get around 15 carries, plus 8 to 10 plays at WR, and maybe a few punt returns. He adds more to the game than just being a RB.

pv1999
01-08-2006, 12:24 PM
BigTexan I doubt that every QB in the NFL is better than VY. I think VY will turn into a very competent QB. Randall Cunningham=Vincent Young.

Chris F'N Simms is NOT.

T_Guru
01-08-2006, 12:28 PM
The Chronicle has Young coming out. PC today.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3573146.html

Vinny
01-08-2006, 12:30 PM
Not sure why the mods deleted the post(mega lame) but the Chronicle has Young coming out.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3573146.htmlI don't see any deleted posts from your account....perhaps it was merged since we have a billion threads on the same topic. The only thing mega-lame is people wanting their own thread every time they want to comment or share a link. It could have been moved to the draft forum too...Young isn't our property yet...we are tying to keep this forum less about the draft and more about the Texans.

T_Guru
01-08-2006, 12:49 PM
I don't see any deleted posts from your account....perhaps it was merged since we have a billion threads on the same topic. The only thing mega-lame is people wanting their own thread every time they want to comment or share a link. It could have been moved to the draft forum too...Young isn't our property yet...we are tying to keep this forum less about the draft and more about the Texans.
That was the case. LMAO I checked right after the message and tried to delete it so I wouldn't look stupid as hell....well, guess I do now. My appologies.:brickwall

pv1999
01-08-2006, 12:54 PM
There is only 15 NFL QBs that I would take over Vince

Peyton Manning, Tom Brady, Carson Palmer, Eli Manning, Drew Brees, Trent Green, Brett Favre, Kerry Collins, Matt Hasselbeck, Ben Whataburger, Brad Johnson, Marc Bulger, Donovan McNabb, Steve McNair, Michael Vick

That leaves IMO 16 "NFL" QB's that I would not take before Vince

J.P. Losman, Chris Simms, Jake Delohomme, Jake Plummer, Kyle Orton (not yet), Mark Brunnell, david carr, Drew Bledsoe, Joey Harrington, Aaron Brooks, Alex Smith, Jeff Garcia, Kurt Warner, Gus Ferrotte, Trent Dilfer and Byron Leftwich

There are non playoff QB's that I would take before VY and there are guys still playing that I would drop in a heartbeat for VY. His upside is that good. When he learns to read defenses, it's over.

Vinny
01-08-2006, 12:57 PM
That was the case. LMAO I checked right after the message and tried to delete it so I wouldn't look stupid as hell....well, guess I do now. My appologies.:brickwalldon't worry about it...i've posted much goofier stuff over the years....welcome aboard.

Bongo59
01-08-2006, 01:11 PM
The Chronicle has Young coming out. PC today.
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3573146.html.............funny bongo told you yesterday it was a lock until Mr Mod took away the thread...................McNair is a pretty credible person Vinny. Thanks for the confidence..........................

T_Guru
01-08-2006, 01:23 PM
.............funny bongo told you yesterday it was a lock until Mr Mod took away the thread...................McNair is a pretty credible person Vinny. Thanks for the confidence..........................

Bongo is TitansCentral resident insider FWIW. His info is usually good.

Vinny
01-08-2006, 01:23 PM
.............funny bongo told you yesterday it was a lock until Mr Mod took away the thread...................McNair is a pretty credible person Vinny. Thanks for the confidence..........................I didn't do that...we have about 8 mods you know. I've been pretty supportive of you over the years...I've told you as much. I just can't be here 24\7. Our forum will have 1000 posts on a given day....I don't see everything anymore like I could when we were slower.

Bongo59
01-08-2006, 01:31 PM
my apologies then..............I posted here yesterday McNair was told by VY he was declaring in Austin and his agent would be Cook...................he relayed that info to Reese..............and that news spread around BSP like wild fire.................I thought i'd drop it here.............and it was deleted.

Vinny
01-08-2006, 01:34 PM
I see it now that I look for it. Sorry we moved it...but some of our mods are not aware you have a long history on these boards and on various Titan boards...or your past association with the Titans.

Our MB has been very active since new year, plus we have been short a few mods due to the Holidays. We are trying to move some of the goofy rumors and you got swept under in the madness...

posts per day since new year:

January 01, 2006 1612
January 02, 2006 1343
January 03, 2006 1239
January 04, 2006 1128
January 05, 2006 1792
January 06, 2006 1489
January 07, 2006 1276

The Dream
01-08-2006, 01:45 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again: I don't think VY is going to be any better than Vick. If Houstonians want to have Mike Vick on their team, then trade for VY in Madden 2007. VY does nothing but zone-read, which does not translate well into the NFL. I have more faith in Chris Mortenson and his contacts saying that most QBs in the NFL today are better than VY ever will be than what I saw against a lousy USC D during the Rose Bowl.


I've said this before and I'll say it again, David Carr is average....the man has had 4 years and has yet to do squat, and it's not like he has a bunch of garbage around him.....he's just flat out average.....I keep hearing people telling Longhorn fans to take their burnt orange glasses off, well you David Carr fans need to take your glasses off also.......I have nothing against David, because he's a class act, but the dude as a starting NFL QB is average......as I said before Young has a much more upside than Carr and about 50% of the QB's in the NFL......David Carrs are easy to come by, VY's aren't.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 01:48 PM
Drew Brees looked pretty bad too. That is until they gave him another weapon besides LT and an OL.

texan279
01-08-2006, 01:51 PM
I've said this before and I'll say it again, David Carr is average....the man has had 4 years and has yet to do squat, and it's not like he has a bunch of garbage around him.....he's just flat out average.....I keep hearing people telling Longhorn fans to take their burnt orange glasses off, well you David Carr fans need to take your glasses off also.......I have nothing against David, because he's a class act, but the dude as a starting NFL QB is average......as I said before Young has a much more upside than Carr and about 50% of the QB's in the NFL......David Carrs are easy to come by, VY's aren't.

Where have the Carr haters been if he has been so horrible for the last for years they all show up now? Must be a huge coincidence they all show up the day after the Rose Bowl...

michaelm
01-08-2006, 01:53 PM
3.)Trade down and take D'Brickishaw Ferguson! - Why has nobody thought about this possibility?

???


You must not read very many posts on this board if you think nobody has ever thought of this idea...

The Dream
01-08-2006, 01:54 PM
Imo Drew Brees is overrated, just like a lot of other QB's in the NFL (Jake Plummer, Carr, and a few others come to mind).

tulexan
01-08-2006, 01:57 PM
Michael Vick is overrated. Drew Brees and Jake Plummer are good QB's.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 01:58 PM
Where have the Carr haters been if he has been so horrible for the last for years they all show up now? Must be a huge coincidence they all show up the day after the Rose Bowl...

We've been around, the numbers have just grown due to different motives.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:00 PM
Where have the Carr haters been if he has been so horrible for the last for years they all show up now? Must be a huge coincidence they all show up the day after the Rose Bowl...

Please don't come at me with the old "hater" label, I'm not hating I'm just giving an honest opinion, I've been having my doubts about Carr as a NFL QB for a while now, even before the VY talk I didn't think we should bring him back for 8 mil.


Oh and I'd take Vick over Plummer anyday of the week....you can make an argument with Brees though.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:02 PM
We've been around, the numbers have just grown due to different motives.

I know some of you have been here, the posters who have been here awhile, but it seems since the day after the Rose Bowl they have come out in masses. And I am not complaining, this is a MB and everyone has a right to have their opinion and express it here, which is why I come here, for the discussion. But SOME of the new Carr haters here can only validate their point with "Carr sucks, Young will be a better QB".

tulexan
01-08-2006, 02:03 PM
Michael Vick isn't even the best QB on the Falcons.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 02:04 PM
Where have the Carr haters been if he has been so horrible for the last for years they all show up now? Must be a huge coincidence they all show up the day after the Rose Bowl...

I'm not a Carr hater. I just was never high on him from the beginning, and now Capers may have ruined him. Picking up his option is a gamble, and it concerns me.

I wonder what Julius Peppers is doing today? Oh yeah, playing football.

And there have been plenty of Carr haters on this board.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:04 PM
Please don't come at me with the old "hater" label, I'm not hating I'm just giving an honest opinion, I've been having my doubts about Carr as a NFL QB for a while now, even before the VY talk I didn't think we should bring him back for 8 mil.


Oh and I'd take Vick over Plummer anyday of the week....you can make an argument with Brees though.

Vick over Plummer? And you think Carr is an average QB?

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:06 PM
But SOME of the new Carr haters here can only validate their point with "Carr sucks, Young will be a better QB".


Look just because I'm new to the board doesn't make my opinions new, like I mentioned before VY or no VY I didn't want Carr back for 8 mil, because he hasn't shown anything on why he's worth it.....and I never said that Carr sucks, I just simply stated that there is nothing special about the guy to make me think he'll be better than average, VY on the other hand has tons of potential and already does a lot of things better than Carr......don't try to come at me that hater BS, it's just my opinion.


Vick over Plummer? And you think Carr is an average QB?


Plummer has a good season and everyone's ready to hop on the bandwagon, at least Vick got his team to the NFC Conference game last year....after the Broncos lose next week, you'll see why I say Plummer is overrated.........yes they will lose.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:07 PM
I'm not a Carr hater. I just was never high on him from the beginning, and now Capers may have ruined him. Picking up his option is a gamble, and it concerns me.

I wonder what Julius Peppers is doing today? Oh yeah, playing football.

And there have been plenty of Carr haters on this board.

I never called you a Carr hater. We have no idea if Carr is ruined until we get a new coach in here over him. And Cass has already said Carr will be here next season and we will not be drafting a QB.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:08 PM
Look just because I'm new to the board doesn't make my opinions new, like I mentioned before VY or no VY I didn't want Carr back for 8 mil, because he hasn't shown anything on why he's worth it.....and I never said that Carr sucks, I just simply stated that there is nothing special about the guy to make me think he'll be better than average, VY on the other hand has tons of potential and already does a lot of things better than Carr......don't try to come at me that hater BS, it's just my opinion.

I said some of the Carr haters, I never said "The Dream". No need to take everything so personal.

Hervoyel
01-08-2006, 02:10 PM
Imo Drew Brees is overrated, just like a lot of other QB's in the NFL (Jake Plummer, Carr, and a few others come to mind).


Didn't you really mean...

"IMO Drew Brees is overrated, just like a lot of other QB's in the NFL (Jake Plummer, Carr, and a few others who didn't go to UT and win the Rose Bowl last week)"

Drew Brees is overrated? Jake Plummer is now overrated? You know what? Right now Vince Young is highly overrated.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:12 PM
Well all of the "haters" seem to making good points about Carr not being the answer, considering he hasn't done anything.


Where have the Carr haters been if he has been so horrible for the last for years they all show up now? Must be a huge coincidence they all show up the day after the Rose Bowl...

and you said this after I posted, so you were reffering to me as a hater.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:25 PM
Well all of the "haters" seem to making good points about Carr not being the answer, considering he hasn't done anything.




and you said this after I posted, so you were reffering to me as a hater.

Did I say The Dream is a Carr hater? And I have not seen any good points to prove that Carr is no good/average. Everyone attacks Carr. No one says anything about the horrible coaching/playcalling. No one says anything about possibly one of the worst offensive lines in history, as far as pass blocking. Everyone says "he sucks" or "he hasn't done anything". What can you reasonably expect behind the guy to do behind an offensive line that gives him just over ONE SECOND to check his recievers then release the ball? Is he really supposed to put up pro bowl numbers on dump offs, WR screens, and 2 yard stop routes? The guy goes out there and plays his *** *** off trying to make plays to help his team win. The guys goes out there and takes beating after beating after beating trying to win games and make things happen for this team. You cannot expect Carr to win the games by himself. Most of the blame I see around here is on Carr. No one blames our defense where the CB's keep blowing coverages and where defenders whiff on tackles. I have MAYBE seen 3 people even mention AJ's problems with dropping passes again this past season while I have complained about it. But does anyone else really say anything, no, because he was in one Pro Bowl and because he is AJ. Point is you cannot blame one person for this team's failure, it's a team sport and the entire team needs to be blamed.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:33 PM
Did I say The Dream is a Carr hater? And I have not seen any good points to prove that Carr is no good/average. Everyone attacks Carr. No one says anything about the horrible coaching/playcalling. No one says anything about possibly one of the worst offensive lines in history, as far as pass blocking. Everyone says "he sucks" or "he hasn't done anything". What can you reasonably expect behind the guy to do behind an offensive line that gives him just over ONE SECOND to check his recievers then release the ball? Is he really supposed to put up pro bowl numbers on dump offs, WR screens, and 2 yard stop routes? The guy goes out there and plays his *** *** off trying to make plays to help his team win. The guys goes out there and takes beating after beating after beating trying to win games and make things happen for this team. You cannot expect Carr to win the games by himself. Most of the blame I see around here is on Carr. No one blames our defense where the CB's keep blowing coverages and where defenders whiff on tackles. I have MAYBE seen 3 people even mention AJ's problems with dropping passes again this past season while I have complained about it. But does anyone else really say anything, no, because he was in one Pro Bowl and because he is AJ. Point is you cannot blame one person for this team's failure, it's a team sport and the entire team needs to be blamed.


Look I'm not here for an argument, but it's obvious you think I'm some kind of carr "hater" because of my opinion (you don't have to mention my name becaue you made it obvious)....anways as far as Carr goes no I don't expect the dude to be a pro bowler, but I do expect him to show some sort of bright light to say "hey maybe he can work out as our franchise QB", and like I've mentioned before (if you've read any of my post) this team has a lot of problems, and it's not all Carr's fault, but dude does need to take some of the blame......like it's been mentioned before he can't read defenses, at times he holds the ball too long in the pocket, and he has shown no qualities of a general out there on the field.....it's been 4 years....I repeat 4 years and he hasn't done squat to make me think he'll be more than average....it's just my opinion.

texan279
01-08-2006, 02:39 PM
Look I'm not here for an argument, but it's obvious you think I'm some kind of carr "hater" because of my opinion (you don't have to mention my name becaue you made it obvious)....anways as far as Carr goes no I don't expect the dude to be a pro bowler, but I do expect him to show some sort of bright light to say "hey maybe he can work out as our franchise QB", and like I've mentioned before (if you've read any of my post) this team has a lot of problems, and it's not all Carr's fault, but dude does need to take some of the blame......like it's been mentioned before he can't read defenses, at times he holds the ball too long in the pocket, and he has shown no qualities of a general out there on the field.....it's been 4 years....I repeat 4 years and he hasn't done squat to make me think he'll be more than average.

Am I arguing? No just discussing. How can he hold onto the ball too long when at the most he gets 2 seconds in the backfield before having to run for his life. Can't read defenses? The one half in 4 seasons he called all plays by himself, our offense broke the Texan's record for most points scored in a quarter. No qualities of a general? What exactly are you looking for? And hasn't improved in 4 years? His completion percentage and TD to INT ratio have been better the last 2 seasons than his 1st 2 seasons.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:46 PM
How can he hold onto the ball too long when at the most he gets 2 seconds in the backfield before having to run for his life

Okay granted our line isn't great, but there have been plenty of times where Carr just seems to hold on to the ball without throwing it somewhere...I think everyone on this board could vouch for that.

The one half in 4 seasons he called all plays by himself, our offense broke the Texan's record for most points scored in a quarter

wow one half.....4 years and you point at one half

His completion percentage and TD to INT ratio have been better the last 2 seasons than his 1st 2 seasons.

this in Noooooooo way means he has improved as a QB, yes he didn't throw as many INT, but there are a lot more things to being a good QB than not throwing INT.

edo783
01-08-2006, 02:48 PM
Imo Drew Brees is overrated, just like a lot of other QB's in the NFL (Jake Plummer, Carr, and a few others come to mind).

So, which NFL QBs aren't overrated?

Which are thos who are over rated?

tulexan
01-08-2006, 02:48 PM
Okay granted our line isn't great, but there have been plenty of times where Carr just seems to hold on to the ball without throwing it somewhere...I think everyone on this board could vouch for that.

wow one half.....4 years and you point at one half


If your players aren't open, then who are you going to throw to?

That was the only half that he has ever been allowed to call the plays.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:51 PM
if your players aren't open and you have time then a better than average QB throws the ball away, he doesn't take the sack.....and I'm sorry but you're gonna have to come better than just one half of football to pull me over on Carr.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 02:54 PM
So if the coaches don't let him call plays, but when he does they score a franchise high in a half, but then he is never allowed to call plays again, it is his problem?

Doesn't that say more about the coaching than the player?

The Dream
01-08-2006, 02:59 PM
I agree that our coaching was bad (along with a lot of other things), but David still hasn't shown me much of anything.....we'll just have to agree to disagree, because I'm not sold on Carr being our franchise QB just because of one half when he was calling plays.

Big B Texan Fan
01-08-2006, 03:01 PM
So if the coaches don't let him call plays, but when he does they score a franchise high in a half, but then he is never allowed to call plays again, it is his problem?

Doesn't that say more about the coaching than the player?
Tulexan-
I've got a question. Do you in any shape, form, or fashion cheer for the Saints? Just wondering since you seem to have gone to Tulane which is in close proximity to New Orleans or actually in New Orleans. If you do cheer for the Saints, then would you like to see us pass on Vince so that your team could take him since it seems that Brooks' future is over there. On that note, couldn't Brooks' failures be attributed to bad coaching?

jcruth
01-08-2006, 03:02 PM
Ok I know this debate will continue on until the day we pick #1 and then 10 years after, but here are my 2 cents for what it is worth. Either pick bush or carr we are replacing a player that is good for their position. Dominik Davis is a good solid back and Carr is a good solid QB. Niether pick helps out with the true glaring problems that face the team on the OL and defensive front.

What McNair needs to do with the Texans is build something that Houston fans can take pride in. I continuely hear from individeuals saying its just hard to support the Texans, their isn't anything to get behind. There hasn't been that strong connection yet. This is impart due to the sting of the oilers and the newness of the Texans. But drafting Young a hometown product is a great story and one that helps the franshises growth. No mater who we pick we are still serveral years from contending. Neither pick will make us an overnight success.

Young Vs. Bush

Young- He has obvisouly demonstrated his leadership and will power. The question everyone has though is his throwing mechanics. Klye Boller of the Ravens as appluaded for this throwing mechanics and look at him. David Carr as a rough throwing mechanics and look at how he is doing. The main keey is he connects with the reciever. Young still has a bit to learn in staying in the pocket, but with our OL would you ever want to stay in the pocket.

Bush- Wow that man is fast. But to me a number one pick is an everydown back and I just don't see that in Bush. Granted USC had 2 great backs, but heck if he isn't a every down back for USC why will he be for the Texans. Bush does have great hands that will give us another recieving threat which is a plus, but does he run up the middle. He is more of an outside runner due to his blazing speed.

Both will be great and you can't really go worng with either, But I say go for Young, to me their is more upside than in bush.

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 03:07 PM
But I say go for Young, to me their is more upside than in bush.
And 5-7 more years before we're playoff contenders? No thanks.

Tulip
01-08-2006, 03:10 PM
And 5-7 more years before we're playoff contenders? No thanks.

Just because it's taking more than 4 years for David Carr to develop doesn't mean it takes that long for other QBs.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:11 PM
who says it will take 5 years to make to the playoffs if we choose Young over Bush, do you have a crystal ball that can see 5 years into the future?........Vince could be a bust, average, or great and the same goes for Bush....none of us knows yet.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 03:12 PM
I have gone to a few Saints games, but I don't consider myself a Saints fan. I don't root for them, but I also don't root against them. I'm not hoping that the Texans pass on Vince Young so that the Saints can get him. I actually believe that Matt Leinart would be a better fit for the Saints because for him to be successful he needs to have a lot of weapons around him and the Saints actually have some despite their record.

I don't believe that coaching is a major factor in Brooks' failure. I believe that Brooks has a tendency to make the absolute worst play at the wrong time. Bill Simmons on ESPN.com recently said that Brett Favre lately has been a "white Aaron Brooks", if you have watched Brett recently you know exactly what he is talking about. Brooks and Favre will be driving down the field at the end of the game needing a touchdown or field goal to win only to throw a "kiss of death" interception to end the game.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:14 PM
sorry to get off topic, but Eli is playing like ***** today.....okay back to the arguing.

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 03:17 PM
Just because it's taking more than 4 years for David Carr to develop doesn't mean it takes that long for other QBs.
Yeah it does - especially when the QB is not from a traditional pro-style offense. How many years was it from the time McNair was drafted until the Titans went to the SB, the 49ers with Montana? How many teams have gone to the SB with a rookie or 2nd year QB?

In the beginning it was going to be a 5 year plan to make the Texans a playoff contender. People were howling this year that that plan was no where near close - Including a lot of the people who NOW think it's ok to wait several more years before the Texans are playoff ready. Most who have been Texans fans since before the team took the field are ready to win now. New Texans fans (those who are fans since the Rose Bowl) only care about one thing...VY. I guess 2-14 seasons with VY will be ok with them.

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 03:17 PM
who says it will take 5 years to make to the playoffs if we choose Young over Bush, do you have a crystal ball that can see 5 years into the future?........Vince could be a bust, average, or great and the same goes for Bush....none of us knows yet.

You're basically rebuilding an offense... remember 2002?

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:20 PM
How many years was it from the time McNair was drafted until the Titans went to the SB?


Yes it took years before McNair got to the Super Bowl, but he looked a lot better than Carr has in his first 4 years.

LoneStarState
01-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Yes it took years before McNair got to the Super Bowl, but he looked a lot better than Carr has in his first 4 years.
Yeah - and McNair went to a team that had been in existence for 30+ years and had an OL.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 03:23 PM
Yes it took years before McNair got to the Super Bowl, but he looked a lot better than Carr has in his first 4 years.

If I am not mistaken McNair sat for the first two.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 03:25 PM
If I am not mistaken McNair sat for the first two.
He did sit...I remember that.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:26 PM
You're right (not sure about the 2 year thing though), we did have Chandler, but Carr has not shown me anything to make me think he can be anything even close to McNair.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 03:31 PM
And when you look at his stats when he became the full time starter, they didn't look that impressive. In fact they were quite comparable to David Carr.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:34 PM
stats don't show everything, there is more to football than just stats....one of the things that bothers me about Carr is his kind of "cheerful" attitude after we lose, I mean I see AJ looking like he wants to beat someone's *****, and all I see Carr doing is smiling saying how much it sucks and how they need to do things better.....I just don't see that competitive firey edge in Carr.

Eli Manning = overrated....3 picks on the day....I guess we know who got all the football smarts in that family.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 03:41 PM
Some people deal with losing differently. If you are implying that David Carr doesn't care about losing then I am going to have to disagree with you. Some people leave all of their emotions on the field and can move on after a game and others can't.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 03:44 PM
I know this is off-topic, but I want the WR coach from CAR. The announcers brought it up, and I kind of agree with them. With what they did with Mushin Muhhamad last year and Steve Smith this year, I wouldn't mind having him as a OC along side Kubiak, or whoever we get.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:44 PM
All I know is most normal human beings don't smile about having their *****es handed to them every Sunday.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 03:44 PM
Some people deal with losing differently. If you are implying that David Carr doesn't care about losing then I am going to have to disagree with you. Some people leave all of their emotions on the field and can move on after a game and others can't.
Concur...

HoustonFrog
01-08-2006, 03:47 PM
All I know is most normal human beings don't smile about having their *****es handed to them every Sunday.

Agree with you. It frustrates me seeing him smile and laugh while playing with his hair.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:49 PM
Yes, thank you, I know I'm not the only one.......it's like wake up Dave, you just got beat again!!!

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 03:51 PM
You're right. He should cry like a little baby all year, and then go out and quit on the team like D-Rob did against SF. That's a much better than putting his best face forward, and then go out and bust his butt the next game. I wish I had a winy baby as the QB for this team.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 03:53 PM
I guess we should get rid of Jerome Mathis because he was laughing after Kris Brown missed the field goal against the Titans to send the game into over time.

The Dream
01-08-2006, 03:54 PM
No one said anything about whining, but he needs to show a little emotion, besides being cheery all the time....why not show some anger???, show something.

EDIT

Hell I was laughing when he missed that FG....Mathis was thinkin about that number one pick (as was Kris Brown)

texan279
01-08-2006, 03:56 PM
No one said anything about whining, but he needs to show a little emotion, besides being cheery all the time....why not show some anger???, show something.

EDIT

Hell I was laughing when he missed that FG....Mathis was thinkin about that number one pick (as was Kris Brown)

Carr did show anger around the middle of the season, towards the end of the season is when he was a bit smiley, and I can't blame him, what else can he do? And so it is OK for Mathis to laugh when Brown misses a chipshot field goal that costs us a game but Carr can't be cheery?

HoustonFrog
01-08-2006, 03:56 PM
I guess we should get rid of Jerome Mathis because he was laughing after Kris Brown missed the field goal against the Titans to send the game into over time.

I never said he needs to whine and pout. But the guy needs to take it personally. I don't want to see a guy answering questions laughing like it is no big deal. In my book that fosters a losing attitude where a team gets used to losing and can just shake it off. I want someone to take it personally and be a leader. I will never look at him as a leader and from what they have said, people in the locker room don't either.

B.Diddy
01-08-2006, 04:04 PM
Ditto...

VY becoming a Titan would make life unbearable...i'm picturing him in a Titans jersey :crying:


Me personally I want the titans to pick V.Young if the Texans pick Bush so he can play behind his mentor and make the texans pay:brickwall twice a season for being sooooo stupid and passing him up.

tulexan
01-08-2006, 04:08 PM
I never said he needs to whine and pout. But the guy needs to take it personally. I don't want to see a guy answering questions laughing like it is no big deal. In my book that fosters a losing attitude where a team gets used to losing and can just shake it off. I want someone to take it personally and be a leader. I will never look at him as a leader and from what they have said, people in the locker room don't either.


Maybe he should have temper tantrums every week like Ryan Leaf.