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View Full Version : Are we for SURE we need a offensive-minded coach?


Texas_Thrill
01-06-2006, 11:48 AM
Has anyone seen the way our DEFENSE looks? I mean the last time I checked DEFENSES win Super Bowls.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 11:51 AM
Has anyone seen the way our DEFENSE looks? I mean the last time I checked DEFENSES win Super Bowls.

Having a defense that is not led by Fangio will have an incremental effect on the product. A new DC will be fine.

HoustonFrog
01-06-2006, 11:52 AM
Has anyone seen the way our DEFENSE looks? I mean the last time I checked DEFENSES win Super Bowls.

I posted this the other day but it got caught in the landslide of Bush posts and then Vince posts. Most of the successful coordinators have been defensive guys who hire a great O-coordinator. The theory I heard on the radio is that the Offensive coaches don't know Defense (caught up in their own gameplan) but Defensive guys know the Offense. Dungy, Bilichek, Saban out of college, Cowher..all seem to garner respect. John McClain was harping on this the other day.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 11:58 AM
I posted this the other day but it got caught in the landslide of Bush posts and then Vince posts. Most of teh successful coordinators have been defensive guys who hire a great O-coordinator. The theory I heard on the radio is that the Offensive coaches don't know Defense (caught up in their own gameplan) but Defensive guys know the Offense. Dungy, Bilichek, Saban out of college, Cowher..all seem to garner respect. John McClain was harping on this the other day.

Those guys are great schemers and communicators/motivators who happen to be experienced on the defensive side of the ball.

TheOgre
01-06-2006, 12:20 PM
If we plan on keeping Carr, I think we should get an offensive minded coach.

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 12:23 PM
I posted this the other day but it got caught in the landslide of Bush posts and then Vince posts. Most of the successful coordinators have been defensive guys who hire a great O-coordinator. The theory I heard on the radio is that the Offensive coaches don't know Defense (caught up in their own gameplan) but Defensive guys know the Offense. Dungy, Bilichek, Saban out of college, Cowher..all seem to garner respect. John McClain was harping on this the other day.

And what about Shanahan, Holmgren, Chucky Gruden, etc? These guys were offensive gurus. They seem to be pretty successful to me.

Vinny
01-06-2006, 12:28 PM
I was hoping we talk to Ron Rivera but it looks like the Rams will sign him.

GP
01-06-2006, 12:30 PM
Part of the problem with Carr, IMO, was that he was held back by a defensive minded coach who wanted to play run-run-run-run all game long, and maybe a hitch pass before half, and then maybe a deep pass at the end of the game.

I think Carr will explode under a true offensive-minded head coach. The rspect will be there, the willingness of Car to "learn" and to ruly "implement" the head coaches' vision will be there, and the offensive-minded coach's philosopohy plays well with our star players.

You'll see a defense that is rested and can take more chances, rather than playing zone when they have a mere 3-point or 7-point lead.

HoustonFrog
01-06-2006, 12:32 PM
And what about Shanahan, Holmgren, Chucky Gruden, etc? These guys were offensive gurus. They seem to be pretty successful to me.

You are right but Shanahan was fired first and had the benfit of TD and Elway to start over with. Holmgren had Favre and has struggle until this year to get Seattle anywhere. Gruden has been off and on too. All SB winners though and that is great. It just seems to be that teams seem to stay the course better with a D guy. That and I am just repeating what I heard on the radio from McClain and others.:)

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 01:00 PM
You are right but Shanahan was fired first and had the benfit of TD and Elway to start over with. Holmgren had Favre and has struggle until this year to get Seattle anywhere. Gruden has been off and on too. All SB winners though and that is great. It just seems to be that teams seem to stay the course better with a D guy. That and I am just repeating what I heard on the radio from McClain and others.:)

If this is a McClain observation, I give the statement less credibility, as I view him as a person with nothing but psycho babble coming out of his mouth. :)

Runner
01-06-2006, 01:27 PM
Well, we have so many needs we may only be able to significantly improve one side of the ball or other this year, or raise both sides by a smaller amount.

I agree that the coordinators are almost as important as the head coach in improving either side of the ball.

That being said, I think we can improve the offense through better coaching and a small amount of picks and improve the defense with better coaching and a larger number of fresh players. There are people here that say the exact opposite though.

HeartofHouston
01-06-2006, 02:31 PM
okay now here's the thing.. as they say Defense wins championships and Offense just gets you to playoffs and puts fans in the seats..

so what's more important winning championships or putting fans in the seats.. here's something for you to think about.. "Can a great Offense Win Championships?" and here's another one for you.. "Can a Great Defense, put fans in the stands?" its a whole crazy issue..

well now that, that's out the way as we all know we have some of the hottest up and coming coaches interviewing for the Texan's job or possibly interviewing..

OC Gary Kubiak
OC Al Saunders
DC Jerry Gray
DC Mike Singletary

Now here's the another good question for you..

Can a Offensive Minded Coach hire a Great Defensive mind or would we have a better chance of hiring a Defensive minded coaching hiring a great offensive minded coach.

Brian Billick (Offense) - and - Marvin Lewis (Defense)
(Super Bowl Champions '01)

Jon Gruden (Offense) - and - Monte Kiffin (Defense)
(Super Bowl Champions '03)

Brian Bellicheck (Defense) - and - Charlie Wise (Offense)
(Super Bowl '02, '04 and '05)

so what does this trend say?.. well from looks of it.. Defense seems to be the best thing for a championship..

So here's the next question.. whats the best coaching combo that we could have for next year??

Kubiak (Head Coach)
Jerry Gray (D-Coordinator)
or
Kubiak (Head Coach)
Mike Singletary (D-Coordinator)

----

Jerry Gray (Head Coach)
Kubiak (O-Coordinator)
or
Jerry Gray (Head Coach)
Mike Singletary (D-Coordinator)

----

How about this one...

Mike Singletary (Head Coach)
Gary Kubiak (Asst. HC and O-Coordinator)
Jerry Gray (D-Coordinator)

---


so what do you guys think..???

rmartin65
01-06-2006, 03:27 PM
A dynamic offense is important. The Rams got by with just an offense a couple of years ago and I think the Texans can do it. We have most of the necessities, a strong armed qb(Carr), 2 fast reciever(AJ and Mathis) and a RB that can run and catch. All thats missing is a coach that wants to throw the ball and an oline.

tsip
01-06-2006, 04:02 PM
Has anyone seen the way our DEFENSE looks? I mean the last time I checked DEFENSES win Super Bowls.

...ck again--all AFC playoff teams had offenses ranked higher than their defenses

HeartofHouston
01-07-2006, 01:59 PM
bump

Bubbajwp
01-07-2006, 02:39 PM
okay now here's the thing.. as they say Defense wins championships and Offense just gets you to playoffs and puts fans in the seats..

so what's more important winning championships or putting fans in the seats.. here's something for you to think about.. "Can a great Offense Win Championships?" and here's another one for you.. "Can a Great Defense, put fans in the stands?" its a whole crazy issue..

well now that, that's out the way as we all know we have some of the hottest up and coming coaches interviewing for the Texan's job or possibly interviewing..

OC Gary Kubiak
OC Al Saunders
DC Jerry Gray
DC Mike Singletary

Now here's the another good question for you..

Can a Offensive Minded Coach hire a Great Defensive mind or would we have a better chance of hiring a Defensive minded coaching hiring a great offensive minded coach.

Brian Billick (Offense) - and - Marvin Lewis (Defense)
(Super Bowl Champions '01)

Jon Gruden (Offense) - and - Monte Kiffin (Defense)
(Super Bowl Champions '03)

Brian Bellicheck (Defense) - and - Charlie Wise (Offense)
(Super Bowl '02, '04 and '05)

so what does this trend say?.. well from looks of it.. Defense seems to be the best thing for a championship..

So here's the next question.. whats the best coaching combo that we could have for next year??

Kubiak (Head Coach)
Jerry Gray (D-Coordinator)
or
Kubiak (Head Coach)
Mike Singletary (D-Coordinator)

----

Jerry Gray (Head Coach)
Kubiak (O-Coordinator)
or
Jerry Gray (Head Coach)
Mike Singletary (D-Coordinator)

----

How about this one...

Mike Singletary (Head Coach)
Gary Kubiak (Asst. HC and O-Coordinator)
Jerry Gray (D-Coordinator)

---


so what do you guys think..???
Kubiak (Head Coach)
Jerry Gray (D-Coordinator
No doubt in my mind this is what I want.
IMO McNair should hire Kubiak and offer the best d coordinator he can find (IMO jerry Gray) and offer him as much money as it takes to get him here even if it is as much as most head coaches salarys.:twocents:

MorKnolle
01-07-2006, 03:00 PM
I think there is a big, fundamental decision that an owner has to make when he first buys a team as to how the teams is going to be organized and run. An owner needs to basically decide who is going to dictate the direction of the team, his head coach or his GM. If he goes the head coach route, he needs to figure out what kind of team he wants to have (defensive style, offensive style, etc.) and pick the head coach that best fits those systems and is going to do the best job of teaching and running that system. Then he needs to go find a GM to work with the coach to find players that are going to fit into that system the best and will accumulate the personnel to allow the coach to run his system to the fullest potential. In this case, the head coach is effectively running the team (or if the owner takes a more active role in the team like Jerry Jones or others, he is running the team's style thru the coach). The other option is to chose a GM that is best fit to find the players and fill the roster in order to run the style of team that the owner wants, or just find a GM that the owner particularly trusts to build the team. After that, the owner needs to find the coach that will best utilize the type of players and level of talent that the GM brings in, so in effect the GM is the head of the team and the biggest impact in how the team plays. Football is such a structured game that you have to establish your offensive and defensive systems and your overall team attitude, and then find players that best fit that system. Unlike basketball, you do not just go find the best players or athletes available and then try to tailor your team's system to fit your talent and constantly change your approach year after year (like the Falcons offense is having to do to accomodate Michael Vick, I'm not saying he isn't a good player or they shouldn't have selected him, merely using that as an example). The most successful teams in football are ones that establish their system (of course it has to be a good one) and then find talent to keep bringing thru to fit that system (Patriots, Steelers, and Broncos are all examples of teams that don't have the best talent on paper but they found players to run their systems and are therefore successful). Either way, someone needs to be in charge of the team and decide what direction the team is going and what kind of system is best for that team, then find players that best fill that system. The Texans seem to have not defined that clear direction of the team. Bob McNair seems to be listening to too many different people that have different ideas (and many of them, from what it seems, I don't think really know much about football anyways), he had Capers and Casserly that didn't really seem to have a clear vision of the direction of the team and neither took control of it, laid their foot down and said "this is how it is going to be." It seemed like Casserly and Capers were both doing their job without ever consulting each other, I know that's not the case but still they never seemed to really be on the same page and work together effectively. I think they had two different styles that they tried to work together and it didn't work. I don't think McNair has established a firm direction for this team, I don't think he knows enough about the game of football to be able to do it on his own, so he needs to get people in here that are going to take charge for him and guide the operation of this team for now. I don't think Casserly has done a very good job of that (I think he is a decent scout and has brought in some good talent thru draft picks, although I think his free agent signing decisions and resigning our players has not been good at all), so hopefully whatever McNair does, the most important thing in my opinion is for him to figure out what he wants out of his team and bring in the leaders to get the team there, and hopefully that will start with this new head coach they are going to be bringing in within a couple weeks. Hopefully our new coach will more firmly establish how he wants to play and then get Casserly to bring in the people to run that system most effectively.

TexansBlitz
01-07-2006, 03:12 PM
We don't need an offensive minded coach to maintain Carr either. All we need is a good quarterbacks coach. He had Chris Palmer doubling as the qb coach before, but we need somebody that can do nothing more than work with Carr. Oterwise, I agree that defensive-minded is the way to go.

edo783
01-07-2006, 06:21 PM
My coaching line up would look like:

HC - Kubiak
DC - Grey
OC - Kippy Brown....I know, never been an OC, but he has been the WR coach, and knows the players which would help the other coaches. While at Denver, Shanahan did the Offense scheming and calling of plays for the first 3-4 years Gary was there. Since then Gary has been doing it. Kind of an OJT program. I think that would be great for Kippy and would give him a REAL chance at a HC job in 5-6 years particularly if our offense looks good.

Kaiser Toro
01-07-2006, 06:24 PM
My coaching line up would look like:

HC - Kubiak
DC - Grey
OC - Kippy Brown....I know, never been an OC,

No on Kippy, it is my opinion that we should be able to do to much better on OC.

I love Kubiak/Gray.

HoustonFrog
01-08-2006, 02:41 PM
And what about Shanahan, Holmgren, Chucky Gruden, etc? These guys were offensive gurus. They seem to be pretty successful to me.

Let me add, Lovie Smith, John Fox, Marvin Lewis and Crennel

Vinny
01-08-2006, 02:41 PM
No on Kippy, it is my opinion that we should be able to do to much better on OC.

I love Kubiak/Gray.Kippy used to be Jimmy Johnsons OC

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 02:44 PM
Kippy used to be Jimmy Johnsons OC

Yep and that is why we could do better.