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David's Busted Carr
01-06-2006, 11:23 AM
I get so sick and tired of hearing all the excuses made for David Carr. The bottom line is, he is just as much as the problem as any coach or player on our team. The guys just does not have what it takes to be an NFL franchise QB. He has a poor attitude (throwing helmets and fits), lacks leadership ability, and I'm not sure he has the respect of his teammates.

Every year it's the same thing. "He has no offensive line". "He needs more talent around him". Give me a break people. First of all, AJ and DD are both top 10 players in their respective postions. How many other teams can say that? And our Oline is NOT that bad. They are not a top flight unit by any stretch, but alot of the sacks Carr takes are his own fault. He takes way too long to get rid of the ball, and in many cases makes his first read and takes off with happy feet if it's not there. Sure, blaming the Oline is the easy way to cop out the QB.

He has now been a STARTER for 4 years! 4 YEARS! And has shown NO improvement. In fact, this year he was plain awful. How long are we going to give this guy to start producing?

Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. In his 2ND YEAR as a starter Palmer is one of the NFLs premier QBs and lead his team to the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years. The Bengals were the laughing stock of the NFL just couple of years ago if you remember. They were probably even worse than the Texans. Eli Manning has also taken giant steps forward and led his team to the playoffs after not even a full year of being a starter.

The point is, it should not take 4+ years for this guy to finally come around. Either you have it or you don't. And I'm sorry, but Carr doesn't have it. I don't know if the Texans are ashamed to admit they messed up with their first ever pick or what, but they need to get off the love affair with this guy. He will never be anything but an average QB AT BEST.

And no this is NOT a Vince Young endorsment, BUT if he does enter the draft. You have to look very hard to taking Vince. I guarantee you we would win more games with Vince at QB as a rookie than we would with Carr next year.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 11:27 AM
I'm sorry, but he STILL doesn't have an O-line. Furthermore, DD WOULD be a top 10 if he could learn to block somebody on pass plays, but it ain't gonna happen. You can't blame Carr until you can't say our line totally sucks anymore. Get it?

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 11:27 AM
I have been very critical of Carr on this board, but we are now rebuilding the team. As long as we get Carr back at a renegotiated rate then I am happy and look forward to the change in the staff, Oline and Defense. I think the QB position is over rated and think he will fit nicely in the right scheme with the right coach at the right price tag.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 11:30 AM
Yeah, or maybe he just sucks. Who can flippin' tell? :)

Vinny
01-06-2006, 11:31 AM
I have been very critical of Carr on this board, but we are now rebuilding the team. As long as we get Carr back at a renegotiated rate then I am happy and look forward to the change in the staff, Oline and Defense. I think the QB position is over rated and think he will fit nicely in the right scheme with the right coach at the right price tag.Carr has no reason to take less. If we extend him we are going to pay Franchise $$$

David's Busted Carr
01-06-2006, 11:31 AM
Yeah, or maybe he just sucks. Who can flippin' tell? :)

Who can tell? Just watch a Texans game. It doesn't take that long to figure out the QB isn't good.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 11:33 AM
Who can tell? Just watch a Texans game. It doesn't take that long to figure out the QB isn't good.

Yeah, but it takes several seconds less time to figure out that those 2 DLs and that LB in the back-field didn't get blocked, about a half second more to see that DD jumped out of their way, and then a few more seconds to watch Carr throw as he's hit, and then a few more to watch Bradford drop it, lol.

Double Barrel
01-06-2006, 11:33 AM
What other QB in the league would find success behind this line and offense? idonno:

While I think Carr has some troubling tendencies that have not been corrected since year 1, I also feel he's got the potential to be a servicable QB given the opportunity.

Signing a rookie QB - either Young or Leinart - and putting him behind our current 2-14 Texans offense will result in another run at the season sack total, IMO. NOBODY, not even Michael Vick reincarnate, would look good behind the 2005 Texans.

That being said, do we beef up the offensive line, add some weapons, and start a rookie QB under a first year coach? That seems a bit over-acheiving, to be honest.

A valid case can be made for either side - keeping him vs. letting him go. The question is what do we get with each scenario. If you keep him, which I believe will happen, and get Bush, you get an offensive weapon that can line up in many different positions. Add in AJ, DD, and consistent pass protection, and things could start to turn around. On the other hand, just adding Young, without addressing a need for a solid #2 receiving threat, will still make us one dimensional. We'd still have to add another playmaker to take away the double team on AJ.

Either way, o-line is the top priority after the no. 1 pick is resolved. Without improving it, nothing positive will happen on our offense.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Screw it. Let's start flipping coins. Which heads do you want? :twocents:

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Carr has no reason to take less. If we extend him we are going to pay Franchise $$$

Do not exercise the option and cut him with the intention of resigning him at a new rate. If VY declares this should be a no brainer for us to leverage. We have the good/bad cop in place with Reeves and Cass. McNair could be the guy that settles this dispute as he seems to have a great relationship with DC. We had a deal in place with DC well before the draft, there is no reason why we can't have this played out before the dates for resigning/restructuring and declaring.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 11:47 AM
Do not exercise the option and cut him with the intention of resigning him at a new rate. If VY declares this should be a no brainer for us to leverage. We have the good/bad cop in place with Reeves and Cass. McNair could be the guy that settles this dispute as he seems to have a great relationship with DC. We had a deal in place with DC well before the draft, there is no reason why we can't have this played out before the dates for resigning/restructuring and declaring.

That'll work. Only problem is I'm David Carr and I'm reading it, lol. :)

Just kidding, of course.

Vinny
01-06-2006, 11:51 AM
Do not exercise the option and cut him with the intention of resigning him at a new rate. If VY declares this should be a no brainer for us to leverage. We have the good/bad cop in place with Reeves and Cass. McNair could be the guy that settles this dispute as he seems to have a great relationship with DC. We had a deal in place with DC well before the draft, there is no reason why we can't have this played out before the dates for resigning/restructuring and declaring.Why would Carr forget about the other 31 teams when he gets cut? I'm sure he has an agent that fancies himself as a professional negotiator...he's bringing in Bill Parcells right off the bat. If we extend him we will pay him. If we cut him he's not going to sign here for less money.

Double Barrel
01-06-2006, 11:58 AM
Why would Carr forget about the other 31 teams when he gets cut? I'm sure he has an agent that fancies himself as a professional negotiator...he's bringing in Bill Parcells right off the bat. If we extend him we will pay him. If we cut him he's not going to sign here for less money.

yeah, I think DC will be a black and white issue. I doubt he takes less money when he could find another taker somewhere else.

I doubt there is any loyalty involved, either. After 200+ sacks in 4 seasons, I'd take the money and run if it was me. :cool:

Be kinda' funny if he ended up in Dallas, 'eh?

Straightshooter
01-06-2006, 12:00 PM
I get so sick and tired of hearing all the excuses made for David Carr. The bottom line is, he is just as much as the problem as any coach or player on our team. The guys just does not have what it takes to be an NFL franchise QB. He has a poor attitude (throwing helmets and fits), lacks leadership ability, and I'm not sure he has the respect of his teammates.

Every year it's the same thing. "He has no offensive line". "He needs more talent around him". Give me a break people. First of all, AJ and DD are both top 10 players in their respective postions. How many other teams can say that? And our Oline is NOT that bad. They are not a top flight unit by any stretch, but alot of the sacks Carr takes are his own fault. He takes way too long to get rid of the ball, and in many cases makes his first read and takes off with happy feet if it's not there. Sure, blaming the Oline is the easy way to cop out the QB.

He has now been a STARTER for 4 years! 4 YEARS! And has shown NO improvement. In fact, this year he was plain awful. How long are we going to give this guy to start producing?

Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. In his 2ND YEAR as a starter Palmer is one of the NFLs premier QBs and lead his team to the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years. The Bengals were the laughing stock of the NFL just couple of years ago if you remember. They were probably even worse than the Texans. Eli Manning has also taken giant steps forward and led his team to the playoffs after not even a full year of being a starter.

The point is, it should not take 4+ years for this guy to finally come around. Either you have it or you don't. And I'm sorry, but Carr doesn't have it. I don't know if the Texans are ashamed to admit they messed up with their first ever pick or what, but they need to get off the love affair with this guy. He will never be anything but an average QB AT BEST.

And no this is NOT a Vince Young endorsment, BUT if he does enter the draft. You have to look very hard to taking Vince. I guarantee you we would win more games with Vince at QB as a rookie than we would with Carr next year.


Hey is this WONGER? Muahuahuahaaa~ Draft Vince Young Texnas and let Mr. Carr go... FREE DAVID CARR!

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 12:02 PM
Why would Carr forget about the other 31 teams when he gets cut? I'm sure he has an agent that fancies himself as a professional negotiator...he's bringing in Bill Parcells right off the bat. If we extend him we will pay him. If we cut him he's not going to sign here for less money.

That is why you inlcude performance bonuses that would get him to those numbers in the current contract.

Honoring Earl 34
01-06-2006, 12:08 PM
:redtowel: Well is this considered virtual competition ? If David thought this is his town and he's the star ... he may want to reconsider .

I say let the new coach decide if Carr's the real deal . You know CC is going to endorse him , Bob thinks he's a good guy , Reeves ? , new coach hurry before the 15th .

gbank54
01-06-2006, 12:13 PM
I like Carr as a person...nice guy, active in church, good dad....but I'm sorry, as a QB, second rate at best...Maybe he still has alot to learn, or maybe he just needs to go to Payton Mannings QB camp for youngsters....only time will tell, but i do know this. His contract NEEDS to be performance based. That would not only be a great incentive to play better, but might save us some money...

Corrosion
01-06-2006, 12:16 PM
Yeah, but it takes several seconds less time to figure out that those 2 DLs and that LB in the back-field didn't get blocked, about a half second more to see that DD jumped out of their way, and then a few more seconds to watch Carr throw as he's hit, and then a few more to watch Bradford drop it, lol.


How many times do people have to see this happen .... Sooner or later someone has to take responsibility ..... an O-lineman maybe , how about the RB who failed to pick up the blitz (not always his fualt since he is asked to be the check down option) .... possibly the pathetic excuse for an NFL reciever .... Guess they forgot to put the STICKUM on their hands ? :brickwall

WWJD
01-06-2006, 12:18 PM
I'm confused.

Casserly and McNair have both said David will get his bonus. I'm positive Casserly said it because I heard it and I read McNair said the same thing on here.

Ok so if they are doing that doesn't that pretty much seal the deal that David will be the QB for now and the forseeable future?

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 12:20 PM
I'm confused.

Casserly and McNair have both said David will get his bonus. I'm positive Casserly said it because I heard it and I read McNair said the same thing on here.

Ok so if they are doing that doesn't that pretty much seal the deal that David will be the QB for now and the forseeable future?

Yeah, they said it. But if they were already 100% convinced they were going to do this, don't you think they would have done it? There is nothing to stop them from making the move right now, at least I don't think there is a restriction from doing it too early.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 12:21 PM
I'm confused.

Casserly and McNair have both said David will get his bonus. I'm positive Casserly said it because I heard it and I read McNair said the same thing on here.

Ok so if they are doing that doesn't that pretty much seal the deal that David will be the QB for now and the forseeable future?

A lot has changed since Wednesday night. This is a business and the leaders need to be as fluid as the market.

bigTEXan8
01-06-2006, 12:33 PM
I wouldn't mind Carr leaving if it ment he could actually get some protection. It is obvious to a deaf mute who has lived under a rock for the past four years and doesn't know what football is knows and understands that Carr had little to no protection over the past 4 years. 200+ times is absolutely ridiculous. Postal workers don't put up with the type of krap fo as long as Carr has.

cuppacoffee
01-06-2006, 12:42 PM
David's Busted Car

"I get so sick and tired of hearing all the excuses made for David Carr."

Im am just as sick and tired of the Carr bashers. Until i can see two consecutive plays where he goes back to pass and is not harrassed by a d-lineman, linebacker or safety I will continue to support him.

Guess we, bashers and supporters, will have to agree to be sick and tired of each other.

Just deleted the rest of your post to get to the meat of the matter.

Are you really "wonger" in stealth mode?... :) :jk:


:coffee:

WWJD
01-06-2006, 12:59 PM
Well let me ask another question because you all have valid opinions and concerns.

The Texans have said they ARE going to give David his bonus.

Ok so they do that.

Do you all think that means that David is definitely the QB now and for the future?

OR

Do you all think they might still draft Vince and let David go?

I'm not understanding I guess the particulars of what they can do...for instance if they don't sign him does that mean he's free to go elsewhere and it's bye-bye Houston with no compensation or could they still make a killer deal and trade David?

Sorry for all the conjecture. I'm just trying to figure out how the puzzle fits and what they are thinking.

David's Busted Carr
01-06-2006, 01:05 PM
David's Busted Car

"I get so sick and tired of hearing all the excuses made for David Carr."

Im am just as sick and tired of the Carr bashers. Until i can see two consecutive plays where he goes back to pass and is not harrassed by a d-lineman, linebacker or safety I will continue to support him.

Guess we, bashers and supporters, will have to agree to be sick and tired of each other.

Just deleted the rest of your post to get to the meat of the matter.

Are you really "wonger" in stealth mode?... :) :jk:


:coffee:

I have no idea who "wonger" is nor am I a David Carr basher. If you read the rest of my post I was pointing out facts. I would be just as thrilled as everyone else in Houston if he starting playing like Carson Palmer, but I just don't see it happening. At least not in Houston. If he makes a career turnaround he needs a fresh new start in a new environment. And in all honesty I think that might be what the Texans need too. Yeah getting a rookie QB might set us back a year or 2, but it will be MUCH better for us in the long term. And lets be honest, are we seriously going to compete with Indy and Jacksonville to make the playoffs next year? I don't think so...

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 01:08 PM
Well let me ask another question because you all have valid opinions and concerns.

The Texans have said they ARE going to give David his bonus.

Ok so they do that.

Do you all think that means that David is definitely the QB now and for the future?

OR

Do you all think they might still draft Vince and let David go?

I'm not understanding I guess the particulars of what they can do...for instance if they don't sign him does that mean he's free to go elsewhere and it's bye-bye Houston with no compensation or could they still make a killer deal and trade David?

Sorry for all the conjecture. I'm just trying to figure out how the puzzle fits and what they are thinking.

This is my unfounded take, but if they sign DC with the idea of moving him I think it will for the two year extension and a trade will involve the #1 pick with the Raiders being the suitor. We will have dead cap, but that is where the Raiders will have to pony up plenty of value.

Coach C.
01-06-2006, 01:24 PM
That may happen, but I doubt it. Reeves thinks Carr is the real deal and as good or better than some of the QBs on top teams. He is the rare pocket QB that can make plays with his legs or arm. 3500+yds and 300 rushing last year. And the last two years has thrown more touchdowns to interceptions. Has a a passer rating better than most other QBs and has proven that when given an offense that allows him to play to his strengths he will succeed. CARR is the FRANCHISE QB... Sorry UT donkeylovers but you VY is headed elsewhere. At least you will get one more year of him in Austin.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 01:37 PM
But VY could be like Vick?

Wait a second, is it possible that Carr has had better seasons than Vick the past two years?

David Carr '04 3531 yards passing 16 TD's 14 INT's 83.5 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '04 2313 yards passing 14 TB's 12 iNT's 78.1 Passer Rating

David Carr '05 2488 yards passing 14 TD's 11 INT's 77.2 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '05 2411 yards passing 15 TD's 13 INT's 73.1 Passer Rating

Vick may have an advantage running the ball, but it is evident that he is slowing down from the constant beating.

LCOOL
01-06-2006, 01:45 PM
I get so sick and tired of hearing all the excuses made for David Carr. The bottom line is, he is just as much as the problem as any coach or player on our team. The guys just does not have what it takes to be an NFL franchise QB. He has a poor attitude (throwing helmets and fits), lacks leadership ability, and I'm not sure he has the respect of his teammates.

Every year it's the same thing. "He has no offensive line". "He needs more talent around him". Give me a break people. First of all, AJ and DD are both top 10 players in their respective postions. How many other teams can say that? And our Oline is NOT that bad. They are not a top flight unit by any stretch, but alot of the sacks Carr takes are his own fault. He takes way too long to get rid of the ball, and in many cases makes his first read and takes off with happy feet if it's not there. Sure, blaming the Oline is the easy way to cop out the QB.

He has now been a STARTER for 4 years! 4 YEARS! And has shown NO improvement. In fact, this year he was plain awful. How long are we going to give this guy to start producing?

Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. In his 2ND YEAR as a starter Palmer is one of the NFLs premier QBs and lead his team to the playoffs for the first time in over 10 years. The Bengals were the laughing stock of the NFL just couple of years ago if you remember. They were probably even worse than the Texans. Eli Manning has also taken giant steps forward and led his team to the playoffs after not even a full year of being a starter.

The point is, it should not take 4+ years for this guy to finally come around. Either you have it or you don't. And I'm sorry, but Carr doesn't have it. I don't know if the Texans are ashamed to admit they messed up with their first ever pick or what, but they need to get off the love affair with this guy. He will never be anything but an average QB AT BEST.

And no this is NOT a Vince Young endorsment, BUT if he does enter the draft. You have to look very hard to taking Vince. I guarantee you we would win more games with Vince at QB as a rookie than we would with Carr next year.
I agree I'm sorry of hearing excuses for cassrely golden child, a lot of Carr's teamates don't even respect him, he has no leadership skills at all.
If the Texan's do give Carr this 8 million it will be a tragedy. The Texan's fans deserve more than this, and VY has proven that he can be make it in the pro's and this is not based off of one game!

WWJD
01-06-2006, 01:58 PM
This is my unfounded take, but if they sign DC with the idea of moving him I think it will for the two year extension and a trade will involve the #1 pick with the Raiders being the suitor. We will have dead cap, but that is where the Raiders will have to pony up plenty of value.


Perhaps...anyway what you have said makes sense. The Raiders are the type of team that will wheel and deal. I guess we'll know much more if Vince decides to come out and makes the Texans choice hard.

If he stays in school I think they'll take Bush, keep David for a long time and forget just build around Reggie and David.

If Vince decides to declare they will have to make some hard choices!

HoustonFrog
01-06-2006, 02:02 PM
I agree I'm sorry of hearing excuses for cassrely golden child, a lot of Carr's teamates don't even respect him, he has no leadership skills at all.
If the Texan's do give Carr this 8 million it will be a tragedy. The Texan's fans deserve more than this, and VY has proven that he can be make it in the pro's and this is not based off of one game!

So true. Thus the talk about him not working with guys after practice and him not taking in extra film time. If it is about the hair and HEB, he is in then. I just think the guy is a putz. When he is interviewed after games all ghe does he put his hand in his hair and smiles for the camera. Get serious my man.

LCOOL
01-06-2006, 02:04 PM
Perhaps...anyway what you have said makes sense. The Raiders are the type of team that will wheel and deal. I guess we'll know much more if Vince decides to come out and makes the Texans choice hard.

If he stays in school I think they'll take Bush, keep David for a long time and forget just build around Reggie and David.

If Vince decides to declare they will have to make some hard choices!
Lets just trade david Carr for gus ferrote, ferrote is the best veteran player in the league!

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 02:06 PM
That may happen, but I doubt it. Reeves thinks Carr is the real deal and as good or better than some of the QBs on top teams. He is the rare pocket QB that can make plays with his legs or arm. 3500+yds and 300 rushing last year. And the last two years has thrown more touchdowns to interceptions. Has a a passer rating better than most other QBs and has proven that when given an offense that allows him to play to his strengths he will succeed. CARR is the FRANCHISE QB... Sorry UT donkeylovers but you VY is headed elsewhere. At least you will get one more year of him in Austin.

I doubt it will happen as well. I was just responding in kind with a plausible scenario..

Dennis007
01-06-2006, 02:11 PM
This is easy

If Vince comes out-
Take Vince, trade Carr for more picks and get a better O-line
Vince is mobile and can throw, I think Carr has proven he is not a franchise player. I think Vince, Andre Johnson, Gaffney and Davis as a RB would be more exciting with more promise than Bush and Carr.
:ok:

If Vince does not come out-
Then proceed with picking up Carr's option and draft Bush.
:)

nunusguy
01-06-2006, 02:16 PM
I'm confused.
I'm positive Casserly said it because I heard it and I read McNair said the same thing on here.

I saw and heard McNair saying they would sit down with Carr's agent and get
the details worked out to execute the option they hold on Carr (as if that's all an after thought), but his comments were made before the Rose Bowl. Now I'm assuming he's more objective than the average fan, i.e. one game would not change his mind about a player. I'm not saying he shouldn't consider VY for the Texans pick, I'm saying I assume he already has and decided he's not interested. Maybe it has something to do with Reeves evaluation of Carr which, sorry to all of the self professed QB experts on this Board, I give a lot of weight to because Reeves has been pretty close to a couple good ones in his travels as an NFL HC and should be a bona fide "expert" on the subject.

michaelm
01-06-2006, 02:24 PM
All freakin season this board has been awash in posts about how sorry the offensive coaching has been.
Capers and Palmer were called everything in the book from too conservative to completely inept.

AND YET

you all seem to think that Carr should be putting up #s like the top QBs in the league.

This is a complete joke. It is recognized on this board that the talent level on the offensive side of the ball is mostly sub par. It is also recognized that the game plans have been totally sub par... It is also recognized that the pass blocking has been a complete joke to the point of not even qualifiying to be called pass blocking...


AND YET

David Carr is supposed to do what, put up pro bowl numbers? Win the MVP? Complete more than 60% of his passes to a mostly avearage group of recievers? Throw more TDs than INTs?
Wait, he did the last two despite the circumstances.

I'm not saying that DC is a superstar QB. I'm not saying he will ever go to the pro bowl, though it's possible.
What I am saying is be freakin real...
To those of you who say to quit making excuses for David Carr... go get on a golfing message board... because that's a sport where a player's performance is not affected by a supporting cast, or coaching decisions.


NEXT TOPIC...

CenTexNative
01-06-2006, 02:27 PM
But VY could be like Vick?

Wait a second, is it possible that Carr has had better seasons than Vick the past two years?

David Carr '04 3531 yards passing 16 TD's 14 INT's 83.5 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '04 2313 yards passing 14 TB's 12 iNT's 78.1 Passer Rating

David Carr '05 2488 yards passing 14 TD's 11 INT's 77.2 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '05 2411 yards passing 15 TD's 13 INT's 73.1 Passer Rating

Vick may have an advantage running the ball, but it is evident that he is slowing down from the constant beating.

So true. Good post

chuckm
01-06-2006, 02:29 PM
But VY could be like Vick?

Wait a second, is it possible that Carr has had better seasons than Vick the past two years?

David Carr '04 3531 yards passing 16 TD's 14 INT's 83.5 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '04 2313 yards passing 14 TB's 12 iNT's 78.1 Passer Rating

David Carr '05 2488 yards passing 14 TD's 11 INT's 77.2 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '05 2411 yards passing 15 TD's 13 INT's 73.1 Passer Rating

Vick may have an advantage running the ball, but it is evident that he is slowing down from the constant beating.

that's eye-opening ... thanks

michaelm
01-06-2006, 02:35 PM
compare Carr's numbers to Ben Roethlisberger... they aren't better, but close.
Tell me you wouldn't love to have a QB put up those modest numbers if your offense was like Pittsburg's...

TexanBacker93
01-06-2006, 02:46 PM
I'm not saying Carr is definitely going to lead the Texans to the SuperBowl. However, tell me a QB that wasn't a pocket passer that won a SuperBowl. Young and Elway were scramblers, but they weren't run first QBs. Favre, Brady, Warner, Johnson, Aikman, Montana, Simms, Williams, McMahon, Dilfer, etc... you can go back just 20 years and every SuperBowl winning QB is more pocket passer than scrambler. Most of the NFL scouts and current NFL coaches are saying Leinart is still the better QB. Young may be the next coming of Randall or Vick, but I don't seem to recall either of them in a SuperBowl let alone winning it. If the Texans take Young do they start him as a rookie? If not, who plays? If you start Carr all season and he pulls a Drew Brees then what do you do? You've just used 2 #1 picks in 5 years on franchise QBs. You'll never get the value out of either in a trade. You could always fail to sign Carr, bring in a journeyman for a year and draft Young. If he turns out to be a bust and Carr goes on to lead another team with coaching and an offensive line to the promised land you'll look great picking #1 for the 3rd time. The ONLY reason Young is mentioned as a must have by a lot of people on this board is because he's a local product. I promise you that if the other 31 other teams had the pick only those teams that had a franchise RB wouldn't take Bush. Bush is the smartest football pick. Trading down and getting extra picks could be beneficial depending on the deal, but if you keep the pick and every does come out I think Bush is the smarter pick.

Now, I think Young will turn out to be a very good QB. I rooted for the Longhorns and since I live in Texas now I will continue to do so. I'm unbiased though, and that's something I don't think many people here can say.

Double Barrel
01-06-2006, 03:25 PM
But VY could be like Vick?

Wait a second, is it possible that Carr has had better seasons than Vick the past two years?

David Carr '04 3531 yards passing 16 TD's 14 INT's 83.5 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '04 2313 yards passing 14 TB's 12 iNT's 78.1 Passer Rating

David Carr '05 2488 yards passing 14 TD's 11 INT's 77.2 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '05 2411 yards passing 15 TD's 13 INT's 73.1 Passer Rating

Vick may have an advantage running the ball, but it is evident that he is slowing down from the constant beating.

Good post, man. Either DC is under-rated or Vick is over-rated. But based on hype alone in the national media, you'd never know the numbers were so close.

Interesting comparison, and brings home the point about a team game. Stats are fun to study, but scoreboard is all that matters in the end.

johnboy
01-06-2006, 05:52 PM
[QUOTE=Coach C.]That may happen, but I doubt it. Reeves thinks Carr is the real deal and as good or better than some of the QBs on top teams. He is the rare pocket QB that can make plays with his legs or arm. 3500+yds and 300 rushing last year. And the last two years has thrown more touchdowns to interceptions. Has a a passer rating better than most other QBs and has proven that when given an offense that allows him to play to his strengths he will succeed. CARR is the FRANCHISE QB... Sorry UT donkeylovers but you VY is headed elsewhere. At least you will get one more year of him in Austin.[/QUOTE

(Carr looks like Tarzan and play Jane)

concernedfootballfan
01-06-2006, 07:38 PM
I couldn't agree more with David's Busted Carr. Let's get someone else that can learn from his mistakes

outofhnd
01-06-2006, 08:04 PM
Ok can I say we are keeping Carr and cite the following reasons why?

1. Vince Young Is Probably not coming out in the draft this year... Why would you come out this year having to compete with both Bush & Leinhart and Lendale White whose stock soared after his Rose Bowl performance? When you can stay another year, Be both a Heismanwinner, Back 2 Back Nat'l titles, and break collegiate records, and be guaranteed the #1 overall pick in 2007 where he will get the biggest contract ever? I Think I would stay another Year.

2. I dont think we are staying in the #1 overall spot I think there are way too many teams that want a RB or take leinhart from the saints.. and will deal with us. I myself am kinda leary of taking Bush myself because its like buying a ferrari and with our o line parking it at a Kmart... I think we will trade down to somewhere in the top 5 to get D Brick, but thats just my opinion.. We have ignored drafting a top tier Offensive lineman for too long and this is the draft where there is quite a few prospects that we can look at..

3. If we pickup Gary Kubiak I think he is going to want a Carr like player who I think would thrive in the rollout style of play that denver runs.. Couple that with a decent line that runs denver's blocking scheme? Scary thought..

4. I personally think with the texans trading out of the top spot Leinhart will go first because the team that trades with us is goin to try and leapfrog NO who wants Leinhart im certain with their QB situation..

There are my reasons we can get another high priced superstar or we can learn and do some wheelin and dealing and restock the positions where we need it most. O line, LB, CB, TE, S

edo783
01-06-2006, 08:20 PM
With Kubiack I think:

1. We stay with Carr...not a bad thing IMO.

2. We draft Bush...not what I would prefer, but not a bad thing either.

3. We do more in FA than we have in other years.

outofhnd
01-06-2006, 08:30 PM
I feel bad for NO who is probably worried they get screwed again like they did for Thomas Davis last year.. with Carolina trading with us to hose them..

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 01:03 AM
But VY could be like Vick?

Wait a second, is it possible that Carr has had better seasons than Vick the past two years?

David Carr '04 3531 yards passing 16 TD's 14 INT's 83.5 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '04 2313 yards passing 14 TB's 12 iNT's 78.1 Passer Rating

David Carr '05 2488 yards passing 14 TD's 11 INT's 77.2 Passer Rating
Michael Vick '05 2411 yards passing 15 TD's 13 INT's 73.1 Passer Rating

Vick may have an advantage running the ball, but it is evident that he is slowing down from the constant beating.


Im Sorry but you cant be that much of a homer can you no offense but ill take vick on a wheel chair before Carr do you forget Vick was playing in the NFC champion Game last season. you forget the leader ship vick\ ron mexico shows how he takes over games something our poor version of trent dilfer does not door will never be able to do.:homer:

Nighthawk
01-07-2006, 01:33 AM
I saw and heard McNair saying they would sit down with Carr's agent and get
the details worked out to execute the option they hold on Carr (as if that's all an after thought), but his comments were made before the Rose Bowl. Now I'm assuming he's more objective than the average fan, i.e. one game would not change his mind about a player. I'm not saying he shouldn't consider VY for the Texans pick, I'm saying I assume he already has and decided he's not interested. Maybe it has something to do with Reeves evaluation of Carr which, sorry to all of the self professed QB experts on this Board, I give a lot of weight to because Reeves has been pretty close to a couple good ones in his travels as an NFL HC and should be a bona fide "expert" on the subject.

I believe they have to execute the option whether they intend to keep him or trade him.

LongBignasty1
01-07-2006, 02:01 AM
Think whatever you want, but time for debate is over and now lets give it up for Vince!

Grid
01-07-2006, 03:19 AM
Im Sorry but you cant be that much of a homer can you no offense but ill take vick on a wheel chair before Carr do you forget Vick was playing in the NFC champion Game last season. you forget the leader ship vick\ ron mexico shows how he takes over games something our poor version of trent dilfer does not door will never be able to do

stuff like this just blows my mind. Ya know.. ive been a football fan for 4 years now. Before that.. the Oilers had left town so I didnt care about the NFL... and when the Oilers were in town I was too young to care, and had no reason to become a fan.

In 4 years ive gone from entirely ignorant about football.. to only somewhat ignorant about football.. but I understood after just a few months that a QB is NOT reponsible for everything that a team does right, or everything that a team does wrong. That no ONE player can be pinned with all of a teams failures and victories. This extreme misconception seems to be a common trait among alot of the so called "fans" on this board.

Vick was in the playoffs because of his defense. Vick helps the Falcons win, I wont deny that.. but he isnt the key to their winning.. or their losing.. he just helps things along (most of the time).

and before you say "Carr doesnt do that". He does.

tsip
01-07-2006, 04:51 AM
If this team does nothing else this year, it needs to find out what kind of QB they have in Carr and it is going to take work from both sides--Carr and the team. We need to improve the pass protection and-like wise-Carr needs to contribute to this equation with better pocket presence/management, throwing the ball away, etc. The TE problem/lack there of and wide receiver problems need to be addressed.

Our success in the coming years IMO is going to depend on our new coaching staffs. We need coaches that can see what we already have in players and what we need to get in order to run the types of offenses and defenses they want. These coaches must be excellent teachers and motivators and set high playing standards that are more than words--to play, you've got to get results. Too, these coaches need to be flexible--if it is not working, try something else, don't set everything in 'concrete.'

I want to see what kind of results Carr can get with effective coaching and I really think it has to happen sooner than later---4 yrs is a long time to go without answers. And, finally, here's hoping that everyone learns from their mistakes.:challenge

HJam72
01-07-2006, 04:56 AM
The coaches are gone. I don't really care if they learned anything or not anymore.

common_fan
01-07-2006, 08:01 AM
I agree I'm sorry of hearing excuses for cassrely golden child, a lot of Carr's teamates don't even respect him, he has no leadership skills at all.
If the Texan's do give Carr this 8 million it will be a tragedy. The Texan's fans deserve more than this, and VY has proven that he can be make it in the pro's and this is not based off of one game!

Sure. VY has already PROVEN he can play in the NFL. Tell me, which NFL team has he played to already "solidify" thats he's proven he can with the NFL. Sure, he's proven he can play in college... But so did Carr.

common_fan
01-07-2006, 08:10 AM
Wait a second. VY won a NC, and he should be drafted right? How about this, release Carr and sign Tee Martin. He won a NC while Manning didn't. With the same talent... Let's get him!!!!:sarcasm:

LCOOL
01-07-2006, 08:39 AM
I agree I'm sorry of hearing excuses for cassrely golden child, a lot of Carr's teamates don't even respect him, he has no leadership skills at all.
If the Texan's do give Carr this 8 million it will be a tragedy. The Texan's fans deserve more than this, and VY has proven that he can be make it in the pro's and this is not based off of one game!

Sure. VY has already PROVEN he can play in the NFL. Tell me, which NFL team has he played to already "solidify" thats he's proven he can with the NFL. Sure, he's proven he can play in college... But so did Carr.
How in the world has Carr proven himself, 4 years of Carr has produced nothing!

common_fan
01-07-2006, 12:03 PM
VY has proven he can play in college, and carr proved it as well. How do know that VY will be any better than carr...because he's from texas.

Napa Auto Parts
01-07-2006, 04:01 PM
Vick was in the playoffs because of his defense. Vick helps the Falcons win, I wont deny that.. but he isnt the key to their winning.. or their losing.. he just helps things along (most of the time).

and before you say "Carr doesnt do that". He does.

and thats why we have the first overall pick i understand clearly what you are saying.:cool:

chapone22
01-08-2006, 01:14 PM
The OL isn't the problem The QB is the general on the field if the rush is coming to quick then hit short passes or move around with the intent to pass.All I've seen from Carr is take the ball and look at the primary receiver. if not there he will head right up field with nothing on his mind but to run.He has had four years to mature but it seems he is going the other way?Defenses are getting quicker every year and this team needs a QB that can get out of the pocket and find someone down field or underneath....THE QB is paid to MAKE things happen on the field, not throw a fit on the sidelines and complain..:challenge

Vinny
01-08-2006, 02:45 PM
If they reup Carr and pass on Young, they better sign Carr for 3 years. To sign Carr for 2 and pass on Young will be the sign of a franchise that has no clue since this would not be a very confident signing. I'm waiting for this little tell.

CarrIsFine
01-08-2006, 03:58 PM
Carr is fine.............as the Texans QB. All the naysayers need a history lesson. See Tampa Bay in the Young/Tesdaverde days. Their numbers were horrendous. However, they were a product of the team/system. Young moves to SF and the rest is history. How did his numbers go from dismal to good?

The answer is obvious to most, but maybe it needs to be brought to the attention of some on this board. I can see it now, Carr goes to a team with a good OC/offensive philosophy, and maybe even someone known as a QB coach (all could be just average compared to what Houston has had) and he flourishes.

Luckily, the shortsighted fans calling for Carr's head don't make the decisions. Kubiak should come in, shore up the line and Carr will have an offense he can excel in. I believe the org. understands this. If for some reason, they let him go you might as well break out the burnt umber throw back jerseys.

bigTEXan8
01-08-2006, 03:59 PM
Carr is fine.............as the Texans QB. All the naysayers need a history lesson. See Tampa Bay in the Young/Tesdaverde days. Their numbers were horrendous. However, they were a product of the team/system. Young moves to SF and the rest is history. How did his numbers go from dismal to good?

The answer is obvious to most, but maybe it needs to be brought to the attention of some on this board. I can see it now, Carr goes to a team with a good OC/offensive philosophy, and maybe even someone known as a QB coach (all could be just average compared to what Houston has had) and he flourishes.

Luckily, the shortsighted fans calling for Carr's head don't make the decisions. Kubiak should come in, shore up the line and Carr will have an offense he can excel in. I believe the org. understands this. If for some reason, they let him go you might as well break out the burnt umber throw back jerseys.
God Bless you sir.

Jack Bauer
01-08-2006, 04:01 PM
See Tampa Bay in the Young/Tesdaverde days. Their numbers were horrendous. However, they were a product of the team/system. Young moves to SF and the rest is history. How did his numbers go from dismal to good?

To those who say Carr is never going to do anything, did you say the same thing about Young? Obviously this question is for those who were actually around during this time, like myself. I would have never predicted that Young would turn out like he did.

HoustonFrog
01-08-2006, 04:08 PM
To those who say Carr is never going to do anything, did you say the same thing about Young? Obviously this question is for those who were actually around during this time, like myself. I would have never predicted that Young would turn out like he did.

I agree with the analogy and was around then but until I see it I will never think of Carr as that type of guy. I think he has too many bad habits and that he has regressed. If he changes, then it will be awesome. I'm just not sold on that guy. There alot more guys who didn't turn into a Steve Young than those who did.

Kaiser Toro
01-08-2006, 04:09 PM
Carr is fine.............as the Texans QB. All the naysayers need a history lesson. See Tampa Bay in the Young/Tesdaverde days. Their numbers were horrendous. However, they were a product of the team/system. Young moves to SF and the rest is history. How did his numbers go from dismal to good?

The answer is obvious to most, but maybe it needs to be brought to the attention of some on this board. I can see it now, Carr goes to a team with a good OC/offensive philosophy, and maybe even someone known as a QB coach (all could be just average compared to what Houston has had) and he flourishes.

Luckily, the shortsighted fans calling for Carr's head don't make the decisions. Kubiak should come in, shore up the line and Carr will have an offense he can excel in. I believe the org. understands this. If for some reason, they let him go you might as well break out the burnt umber throw back jerseys.

Yes Carr may be fine as was Young, but why should our team invest in a #1 QB to have to wait that long. The arguement is not so often about Carr, but about the prudence of developing a player at such a high price for so long. The return on investment needs to be larger than just an All-Pro Career.

bullman
01-08-2006, 04:13 PM
David carr is t********VY is wortlhless, and wont amount to anything, longhorn fans need to shut up, the texans are not drafting this sorry *** quaterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

HoustonFrog
01-08-2006, 08:21 PM
David carr is t********VY is wortlhless, and wont amount to anything, longhorn fans need to shut up, the texans are not drafting this sorry *** quaterback!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Ummm..ok.