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View Full Version : Why Vince should be a no brainer


1-3
01-06-2006, 09:49 AM
NFL personell are somewhat split on how great Vince will be in the league, but one thing is for sure. If you draft Vince and he is even just a good, not even great QB, you guarantee yourself an enormous love affair for this team from the city of Houston. Right now this is not a done deal to say the least with the Texans creeping into punchlines on broadcasts. Houston is one of the greatest cities in the country but the fact is as a sports market we are largely front runners. This city rallied around Vince as a high schooler at Madison to a huge degree, with multiple spreads in the Chronicle etc.., and now of course as a Longhorn winning a national championship. After the display he put on in the Rose Bowl even a large part of non UT Texans are probably modest fans of the guy. Inner city Houston sees him as a demi god (as do I), and most Longhorn fans go further than that. The bottom line is that IF Vince carries over to the NFL we are talking about LUV YA (STEEL) BLUE all over again. If we trade down and get Hawk, Furgeson, etc.. we will still be a ways off from contention but will have seriously fading backing from the fans.

And as a secondary sidenote. NFL QB's are about 5 times as valuable as NFL running backs and they last probably twice as long. From a risk reward perspective I think Vince is the obvious choice. If he pans out, he will be a better Mike Vick who energizes a franchise without a personality right now and will do so for 8 + years most likely. If Reggie pans out you have a difference maker at a less important position who won't last near as long and won't endear as many fans. If Casserly pulls off a trade to get Furgeson and a 105th rounder this city will go into absolute hibernation on this team The move is to take Vince and try to hit a homerun for this franchise. There is zero chance with his athletic ability he will be a complete bust, and barring that nobody will blame the Texans for taking a shot at the superstar hometown kid. If he goes somewhere else and flourishes you are looking at a disaster.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 09:58 AM
I wouldn't say that there is zero chance that he will be a complete bust. Everyone has a chance to be a bust and with his marginal arm strength he could very easily be a bust.

Huge
01-06-2006, 10:00 AM
If NFL QBs are 5X as valuable than RBs, why are you already wanting Carr to be replaced?

David's Busted Carr
01-06-2006, 10:06 AM
If NFL QBs are 5X as valuable than RBs, why are you already wanting Carr to be replaced?

Because Carr has proven NOTHING in 4 years. Most solid QBs only take one or two years to develop. Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. Both took HUGE steps forward in one season and both have their teams in the playoffs. And I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for Carr. The guy is just NOT that good...

Houston Fan
01-06-2006, 10:13 AM
Anyone who thinks Vince Young will be a bust doesn't know what they're talking about. Unless some unforeseen injury occurred, no way he's not successful. He's a man amongs boys in college right now. His passing game is WAY underated because of his exciting running ability. Sure, he won't be rushing as much in the NFL, but he'll make plays happen. What makes Vince Young special is he can make nothing into something. Also, he has the 'It' when the game is on the line. This is what makes champions and legends. This is what seperates VY from Michael Vick.

I don't know about you, but I'm getting a little tired of David Carr's inconsistant play. Sure we have OL problems, but his reads aren't 'championship' material. Without a doubt, I'd take VY over David Carr if the games on the line.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 10:20 AM
The greatest impact on next year's team will be a new staff. VY may have an impact if he declares and we leverage this against Carr's current contract (renegotiate) and then trading down.

The fans of Houston I hope are more intelligent than only wanting to root for hometown heroes. This is the NFL, not high school.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 10:23 AM
He's a man amongs boys in college right now. His passing game is WAY underated because of his exciting running ability. Sure, he won't be rushing as much in the NFL, but he'll make plays happen.


Key word. College. Vince is a man among boys in college, but he is a boy among men in the NFL at this stage in his development. Vince is still not a great passer. He has improved dramatically, but he is still a few years away from being a good passer. Like all running quarterbacks, he will slow down and run less. Even Vick has slowed down since getting into the league. Has he even taken any snaps under center at Texas? You can't just run shotgun every time in the NFL. Does that mean that he will definetely be a bust? Of course not, but don't annoint him as a god before he hasn't done anything. Quarterback is the hardest position to play in the NFL and Vince will have his work cut out for him once he gets to the next level.

Vinny
01-06-2006, 10:26 AM
The fans of Houston I hope are more intelligent than only wanting to root for hometown heroes. This is the NFL, not high school.You make this sound simple. I'm no UT fan but I'm a big fan of Young and the change that comes with him. If you watch the rose bowl closer you can see how he makes defenses do things they don't like to do. If you look close to at the Rose Bowl he was hitting the open man all night because he reads defense well. He was 30 of 40 and consistantly hit the off-man when USC did decide to get exotic. When you spy you have to take a man from coverage or from the rush. Young totally forced Carrol out of his blitz scheme by burning it over and over. This is one reason Young is so darn tough to defend.....he has proven he is hard to blitz, hard to spy, and hard to defend straight up. If he couldn't find and hit the open WR then he would be Tommie Frazier...but he can. I'd like to see the 6'5 230 pound QB leading my Texans. I'll get over it if it doesn't happen though, because the Texans seem married to Carr in a big way. I can only hope, and let them know how this fan feels about it.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 10:45 AM
You make this sound simple. I'm no UT fan but I'm a big fan of Young and the change that comes with him. If you watch the rose bowl closer you can see how he makes defenses do things they don't like to do. If you look close to at the Rose Bowl he was hitting the open man all night because he reads defense well. He was 30 of 40 and consistantly hit the off-man when USC did decide to get exotic. When you spy you have to take a man from coverage or from the rush. Young totally forced Carrol out of his blitz scheme by burning it over and over. This is one reason Young is so darn tough to defend.....he has proven he is hard to blitz, hard to spy, and hard to defend straight up. If he couldn't find and hit the open WR then he would be Tommie Frazier...but he can. I'd like to see the 6'5 230 pound QB leading my Texans. I'll get over it if it doesn't happen though, because the Texans seem married to Carr in a big way. I can only hope, and let them know how this fan feels about it.

Do not get me wrong, I love VY. But I do not see any value in a QB at #1. I also see kinks in his armor, but ones that a competitor, leader and student of the game can fix. Which VY is.

Let me ask you a question, who runs the zone read in the NFL?

beerlover
01-06-2006, 11:31 AM
how about this for a no-brainer-

http://www.nlscouting.com/Spotlights/youngCarr.htm

Vinny
01-06-2006, 11:35 AM
Do not get me wrong, I love VY. But I do not see any value in a QB at #1. I also see kinks in his armor, but ones that a competitor, leader and student of the game can fix. Which VY is.

Let me ask you a question, who runs the zone read in the NFL?Who runs the 3-4? That doesn't stop teams from drafting linebackers who never played the position. QB is a different animal but the position is critical in the NFL. Young is well worth that risk to me.

I don't think Young is a "no-brainer" but I stated a long time ago that I thought he would be an NFL "superstar", and I don't feel much different now. Young has incredible pocket awareness and escapability. He read the blitz every time Carroll threw it at him. He made quick decisions and made them pay for not playing perfect football by hammering their contain Wednesday night....I'm pushed over the top and think that we are making a grave mistake by hanging on to Carr over someone who I think will be much better than Michael Vick in the NFL. Vick was good enough to take his flawed game to the NFC title games early in his career....I see Young taking us there too.

Htown34s
01-06-2006, 11:38 AM
To me, McNair HAS to draft VY.

If he does draft Young, and he IS a complete bust, then McNair will be forgiven for having faith in hometown talent. The city (if not the nation) already loves VY, and won't be as hard on him as Carr. The franchise is young and will overcome.

If he does not draft Yound, and he is NOT a bust, McNair will never be forgiven. I still think Bud Adams left in part because of the public backlash from firing Bum Phillips. McNair can not have the public turn on him as the owner 5 or 6 years into the franchise's existance.

It is as simple as that. If the public wants VY, McNair has to take him.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 11:39 AM
Who runs the 3-4? That doesn't stop teams from drafting linebackers who never played the position. QB is a different animal but the position is critical in the NFL. Young is well worth that risk to me.

I don't think Young is a "no-brainer" but I stated a long time ago that I thought he would be an NFL "superstar", and I don't feel much different now. Young has incredible pocket awareness and escapability. He read the blitz every time Carroll threw it at him. He made quick decisions and made them pay for not playing perfect football by hammering their contain Wednesday night....I'm pushed over the top and think that we are making a grave mistake by hanging on to Carr over someone who I think will be much better than Michael Vick in the NFL. Vick was good enough to take his flawed game to the NFC title games early in his career....I see Young taking us there too.

We are seeing the same things and share the passion for VY. We just disagree on what we would like to see our Texans do.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 11:44 AM
I don't think that the city is going to turn on McNair if he doesn't pick Vince Young. This city like every other city will get over it if he puts a winning team on the field.

McNair is going to do what is best for the team, not the fans. And if Kubiak or whoever the coach is feels that they do not need Vince Young and that David Carr can be that franchise quarterback with the right protection, coaching, and weapons around him then they are going to pass on Vince Young.

TheOgre
01-06-2006, 11:47 AM
how about this for a no-brainer-

http://www.nlscouting.com/Spotlights/youngCarr.htm

That is an interesting idea. We could take an O-lineman and TE with our two 2nd's and still have two 3rd's to work on re-tooling our D.

Coach C.
01-06-2006, 12:13 PM
Beerlover wow. A letter written by an obvious Raider fan. Dont you think the Raiders would love to get Carr. He is going into his 5th year, has consistently played well on a crap team (3500+ yds and 300rushing) and for the past two years has shown he can throw the deep ball, and throw more touchdowns than interceptions. Just to let you know this is the exact reason why we will keep Carr and VY can spread his man juice around Austin for another year.

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 12:18 PM
It is as simple as that. If the public wants VY, McNair has to take him.

That is the way to NOT run a professional franchise. You should NEVER let the fans make the pick for your team.

LBC_Justin
01-06-2006, 12:34 PM
McNair is going to do what is best for the team, not the fans.
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 12:37 PM
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.

This is apples and oranges compared to player selection.

chuckm
01-06-2006, 12:38 PM
Actually you are somewhat wrong.

For example:
This season the Texans' staff decided to leave the roof open against the steelers on a super hot day to try and get a advantage since the steelers were playing in all black.

Texans still lost and the fans were miserably hot.

McNair announced that "fan comfort" would be the deciding factor regarding the roof, not whether or not the Texans could get a competitive advantage.


then that would make him somewhat right? or did I miss something?

tulexan
01-06-2006, 12:39 PM
OK, fan comfort he might look for the best intentions of the fans, but personnel decisions are not going to be made because of the fans.

austi82110
01-06-2006, 12:48 PM
If VY is drafted by the texans, I will attend and watch Texans games over the Cowboys...If they don't draft Vince, I will continue to curse CBS for putting on such a sorry game when there are soo many better matchups weekly in the AFC.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 12:50 PM
If VY is drafted by the texans, I will attend and watch Texans games over the Cowboys...If they don't draft Vince, I will continue to curse CBS for putting on such a sorry game when there are soo many better matchups weekly in the AFC.

I curse Fox every Sunday as is for putting out that NFC chum called the Tuna.

Htown34s
01-06-2006, 01:01 PM
Even if VY is only average in the NFL, he will sell a lot of seats and jerseys, as well as putting the Texans on national TV a heck of a lot more. IMHO, he would have the Vick effect for us nationally.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 01:15 PM
So will Reggie Bush. Vick doesn't even sell the most jerseys. Brian Urlacher does.

dtran04
01-06-2006, 01:20 PM
To me, McNair HAS to draft VY.

If he does draft Young, and he IS a complete bust, then McNair will be forgiven for having faith in hometown talent. The city (if not the nation) already loves VY, and won't be as hard on him as Carr. The franchise is young and will overcome.

If he does not draft Yound, and he is NOT a bust, McNair will never be forgiven. I still think Bud Adams left in part because of the public backlash from firing Bum Phillips. McNair can not have the public turn on him as the owner 5 or 6 years into the franchise's existance.

It is as simple as that. If the public wants VY, McNair has to take him.

With fans like us, who needs enemies then? Sheesh......No wonder why Houston gets made fun of all the time. Might as well have an election and have the fans vote who the picks are. That would be fun.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 01:55 PM
Tulex, it is ironic that you downplay Vince for virtually the exact same reasons that I have downplayed Reggie Bush to you many a time (college vs NFL competition, flaws in game, don't annoint him yet) and yet Bush is still the man? :)

Yeah I have been laughing all day. Not at Tulexan, but the Bush lovers in general and their takes on VY.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 01:56 PM
Bush and Vince are different because with Bush we are adding another weapon to an established nucleus. With Vince Young we are ripping apart the nucleus and setting the team back a few years.

There are a lot more questions about how Vince Young's game relates to the NFL than Reggie Bush's game.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 02:07 PM
But the major difference between the arguments is that the Vince fans want Vince to replace David Carr, while Reggie fans want Reggie to play alongside Domanick Davis to give the Texans another weapon on an already stagnant offense. It's the difference between adding and replacing.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 02:11 PM
But the major difference between the arguments is that the Vince fans want Vince to replace David Carr, while Reggie fans want Reggie to play alongside Domanick Davis to give the Texans another weapon on an already stagnant offense. It's the difference between adding and replacing.

But is deeper than that. The justification that the pro Bush crowd used to arrive at their reasoning for selecting Bush is mostly the same they are using to arrive at defeating the prospect of taking VY.

tulexan
01-06-2006, 02:15 PM
Well I can't speak for others, but my intentions in wanting Bush was solely to add another weapon to the team, not to replace Domanick Davis.

z0rpAn
01-06-2006, 03:17 PM
Well I can't speak for others, but my intentions in wanting Bush was solely to add another weapon to the team, not to replace Domanick Davis.

I was thinking on the same side as this, also hearing that there was basically no chance that Young would come out.

Now theres a lot better chance that Young will come out to this years draft so you have to mix in his superstar potential into your considerations.

I read toward the beginning of this thread that the quaterback is the nucleus of the offense, in which I completely agree. The organization really needs to think about how much of a significant upgrade Bush and Young(if they both come out) can make before making a final decision.

My Views:
Upsides to Bush
-Faster RB
-Makes better cuts than Davis more frequently
-Is versatile and can fill in any given offensive position other than a lineman or QB as well could be a KR backup for Mathis, seeing how much Mathis has been gone this season he would make a difference here as well as free up another roster position by having another player that can play more than one position.

Upsides to Young:
-Will be a hometown hero, which tend to do extremely well(I.E. Olajuan, Backe)
-Will open up the offensive playbook more.
-Someone that will always make a defense think again when considering doubling A.J.

IMHO:
We take Young and sign Carr to a one year extension. We have seen brilliant flashes from Carr, but not much more. He has always been "comfortable" at his position as he hasn't had a doubt he will continue to keep his job as long as he does a descent job. Let these 2 could be superstar QBs duke it out for the job and say so long to the loser next year, while getting a good trade in for either one that it is.

Afrokid
01-06-2006, 03:30 PM
this is a completely useless thread....

rmartin65
01-06-2006, 03:34 PM
There is no point to taking either. The line is the problem. Bush would get hit behind the line a lot, and Young will get sacked. Basically the same thing that happens now. Fix the problem first.

Huge
01-06-2006, 03:40 PM
this is a completely useless thread....
I know what you mean. (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16685) :rolleyes:

z0rpAn
01-06-2006, 03:50 PM
There is no point to taking either. The line is the problem. Bush would get hit behind the line a lot, and Young will get sacked. Basically the same thing that happens now. Fix the problem first.

IF Kubiak ends up here, do you not think that there will be some sort of a good offensive line coach than can turn these "misfits" into one solid unit this offseason? I'm sure that Denver didn't spend all of their 1st round picks every year on drafting offensive linemen and I can't see out of all the high profiled linemen we drafted are 80%-90% busts. Especially when everyones asking, "Why did we have this offensive coordinator as an offensive line coach?"

gameguy89
01-15-2006, 04:26 PM
There is no point to taking either. The line is the problem. Bush would get hit behind the line a lot, and Young will get sacked. Basically the same thing that happens now. Fix the problem first.

I'm not the best person to recall stats and such, but I believe that two years ago when he wasn't hurt, Davis had 700 yards rushing and another 700 receiving, correct? Granted, not great numbers for an NFL RB, but he did it with the same line that Carr had.

As has been said earlier in this thread, look at what Vick did to the Falcons. Not only did he get them on national television, they started winning. The Falcons weren't in as poor shape as the Texans are in, but they were not by any means a playoff-worthy team.

Okay, fine, yes we need to fix the problem. But that will only put us in mediocre shape. We have good offensive players right now (or potentially good): Johnson, Davis and Carr. Johnson is double teamed all the freaking time, so he hasn't had a chance since people realized that Bradford couldn't catch (I know I'm being harsh, but that guy pissed me off several times during this season). As I said, Davis had 1400 total yards with the same line that Carr had two years ago. With a better line, those numbers will skyrocket. Carr, with a better line, will also be better.

But throw away the first pick to fix a problem which can be fixed with our next four picks? I say no. Beyond everything I just said, our team needs a leader. Someone that their faith has not already been shaken/destroyed. Though its just one game and already a cliche, the Rose Bowl can sum up everything right now. Young emerged as a leader. Reggie shrunk back. After watching that game, I would rather draft Lendale White rather than Reggie. Under a situation which his team relied on him, he crumbled. Under a situation which his team relied on him, Vince led his team to a 14 point comeback in under 5 minutes.

Let us do to others what St. Louis did to us. Let us score 17 points in 0:34.

Wolf
01-15-2006, 04:34 PM
Because Carr has proven NOTHING in 4 years. Most solid QBs only take one or two years to develop. Look at Carson Palmer and Eli Manning. Both took HUGE steps forward in one season and both have their teams in the playoffs. And I'm sick of people constantly making excuses for Carr. The guy is just NOT that good...


one thing that separates Carr from those guys or vice versa .. while dropping back to pass Carr is still looking at the rush coming in... Eli and Carson have taken the next step and watching downfield instead of the rush (they also trust their OL )

Texans_Chick
01-15-2006, 06:34 PM
As has been said earlier in this thread, look at what Vick did to the Falcons. Not only did he get them on national television, they started winning. The Falcons weren't in as poor shape as the Texans are in, but they were not by any means a playoff-worthy team. .

Right now, our team identity is Carr on his backside with no Oline. (The ESPN commercial). I hate to admit that, but it is true.

Anyhow, ATL wasn't much better than us, other than their defense and their record, barely.

The season before ATL took Vick, they were ranked 27th in points scored and 30th in yards made outta 31 teams and were 4-12. Their defense was not great either 26th in points allowed and 23rd in yards allowed.

Houston's offense this last year was ranked 27th points scored and 28th in yards made outta 32 teams. Defense was 31 in points allowed and 32nd in yards allowed.

The year where Vick had the most QB starts (his second year), ATL was ranked 5th in points and 14th in yards outta 32 teams and were 9-6-1.

Vick and VY are not the same player. Their game is not the same, nor is their size. They both do share the ability to keep defenses honest and are difficult to game plan for. Statistically, VY is substantially better than Vick was when he came out as the first pick and he has more of an NFL body size.

Every time I try to compare him to anyone else, it just makes me think he has the possibility to be an amazing NFL player, and it could be a tremendous thing for the Texans to make him their bold choice. It wouldn't just be a hometowner thing, though that is a plus, as his stats and his record and just using your eyes suggests he is legit as a #1.

MorKnolle
01-15-2006, 06:37 PM
I'm not the best person to recall stats and such, but I believe that two years ago when he wasn't hurt, Davis had 700 yards rushing and another 700 receiving, correct? Granted, not great numbers for an NFL RB, but he did it with the same line that Carr had.


FYI Davis' yearly stats:
2003: 14 games, 1031 rushing yards, 8 TDs, 351 receiving yards, 1382 total yards (98.7 per game)
2004: 15 games, 1188 rushing yards, 13 TDs, 588 receiving yards, 1 TD, 1776 total yards (118.4 per game)
2005: 11 games, 976 rushing yards, 2 TDs, 337 receiving yards, 4 TDs, 1313 total yards (119.4 per game)

kbourda
01-15-2006, 11:55 PM
Right now, our team identity is Carr on his backside with no Oline. (The ESPN commercial). I hate to admit that, but it is true.

Anyhow, ATL wasn't much better than us, other than their defense and their record, barely.

The season before ATL took Vick, they were ranked 27th in points scored and 30th in yards made outta 31 teams and were 4-12. Their defense was not great either 26th in points allowed and 23rd in yards allowed.

Houston's offense this last year was ranked 27th points scored and 28th in yards made outta 32 teams. Defense was 31 in points allowed and 32nd in yards allowed.

The year where Vick had the most QB starts (his second year), ATL was ranked 5th in points and 14th in yards outta 32 teams and were 9-6-1.

Vick and VY are not the same player. Their game is not the same, nor is their size. They both do share the ability to keep defenses honest and are difficult to game plan for. Statistically, VY is substantially better than Vick was when he came out as the first pick and he has more of an NFL body size.

Every time I try to compare him to anyone else, it just makes me think he has the possibility to be an amazing NFL player, and it could be a tremendous thing for the Texans to make him their bold choice. It wouldn't just be a hometowner thing, though that is a plus, as his stats and his record and just using your eyes suggests he is legit as a #1.

Great observation.

AustinJB
01-16-2006, 04:39 PM
Bush and Vince are different because with Bush we are adding another weapon to an established nucleus. With Vince Young we are ripping apart the nucleus and setting the team back a few years.

There are a lot more questions about how Vince Young's game relates to the NFL than Reggie Bush's game.

Exactly what nucleus are we ripping apart? Are you referring to how the team "rallies" around Carr?:confused: Like when the veteran G.Walker explodes to him on the sidelines and yells that "you need to learn to be coached." Or when Carr throws up his hands on an incomplete pass and then pouts as he walks to the sideline. Or how he never spends extra time in practice to try to improve. And how you have yet to hear anyone from the team even remotely address Carr as their leader. Yeah, seems like a great nucleus. Sure don't want to break that up (Sarcasm BTW)

As far as "a lot more questions" about VY' NFL game, I don't see that logic either. VY's "questions" are mere technical aspects of his game (i.e. throwing motion, taking snaps under center rather than shotgun). If he's smart enough (which his ability to read defenses and make correct decisions seems to imply he is) then he can correct these issues given that he has a very dedicated work ethic.

Bush's questions are more of a durability issue. Whether it was his fault or not, or whether it is fair or not, Bush never had to carry the ball 25+ times a game. He also VERY seldom ran through the middle of the O-line. While he could outrun/outjuke everyone in college, he can't get away w/ that in NFL; he'll have to be able to take direct hits every now and then. It is unknown whether or not he can do that.

IMO, I would much rather take a chance on someone that has technical "issues" rather than someone who has durability questions. :twocents:

MorKnolle
01-16-2006, 05:05 PM
Exactly what nucleus are we ripping apart? Are you referring to how the team "rallies" around Carr?:confused: Like when the veteran G.Walker explodes to him on the sidelines and yells that "you need to learn to be coached." Or when Carr throws up his hands on an incomplete pass and then pouts as he walks to the sideline. Or how he never spends extra time in practice to try to improve. And how you have yet to hear anyone from the team even remotely address Carr as their leader. Yeah, seems like a great nucleus. Sure don't want to break that up (Sarcasm BTW)

As far as "a lot more questions" about VY' NFL game, I don't see that logic either. VY's "questions" are mere technical aspects of his game (i.e. throwing motion, taking snaps under center rather than shotgun). If he's smart enough (which his ability to read defenses and make correct decisions seems to imply he is) then he can correct these issues given that he has a very dedicated work ethic.

Bush's questions are more of a durability issue. Whether it was his fault or not, or whether it is fair or not, Bush never had to carry the ball 25+ times a game. He also VERY seldom ran through the middle of the O-line. While he could outrun/outjuke everyone in college, he can't get away w/ that in NFL; he'll have to be able to take direct hits every now and then. It is unknown whether or not he can do that.

IMO, I would much rather take a chance on someone that has technical "issues" rather than someone who has durability questions. :twocents:

I for one would rather have a guy who has all the physical gifts and might not be able to carry the ball as much as you would normally like than a guy that has some physical gifts but is going to take 2-3 years of fixing the technical problems of his game before he can become a good player, especially when that is the most important guys on the field.

AustinJB
01-16-2006, 05:11 PM
I for one would rather have a guy who has all the physical gifts and might not be able to carry the ball as much as you would normally like than a guy that has some physical gifts but is going to take 2-3 years of fixing the technical problems of his game before he can become a good player, especially when that is the most important guys on the field.

Sounds like a contradicting statement if you're willing to stick w/ Carr. He's been here 4 years (not 2-3) and he still has yet to show improvement.

And the point w/ Bush is not necessarily that he will not be able to carry the ball as much as you'd like; It's that if we don't know if he can take the NFL hits, then he may be VERY injury-prone.

MorKnolle
01-16-2006, 05:19 PM
Sounds like a contradicting statement if you're willing to stick w/ Carr. He's been here 4 years (not 2-3) and he still has yet to show improvement.

And the point w/ Bush is not necessarily that he will not be able to carry the ball as much as you'd like; It's that if we don't know if he can take the NFL hits, then he may be VERY injury-prone.

Carr had shown a lot of improvement until the coaching staff decided to ruin this season, and he has far fewer technical problems with his pass throwing than Vince Young does, and I have the same doubts about Vince Young taking hits from NFL players as I do about Reggie.

ReggieBushFan
01-16-2006, 05:39 PM
Reggie is the better choice here and I think the coaches will see it that way as well, get ready to embrace Mr. Bush because that is who we are going to take

AustinJB
01-16-2006, 06:02 PM
Carr had shown a lot of improvement until the coaching staff decided to ruin this season, and he has far fewer technical problems with his pass throwing than Vince Young does, and I have the same doubts about Vince Young taking hits from NFL players as I do about Reggie.

:challenge Then I guess you do not recall that the major question w/ Carr when we were planning on taking him in our first draft was his sidearm throwing motion. Hell, the coaches even brought out ladders during their workouts to get him to throw more overhanded.

And you have the same doubts about VY taking hits? That seems absurd!! VY=6'5" 230lb.
Bush=6'0" 200lb.:homer:

MorKnolle
01-16-2006, 06:06 PM
:challenge Then I guess you do not recall that the major question w/ Carr when we were planning on taking him in our first draft was his sidearm throwing motion. Hell, the coaches even brought out ladders during their workouts to get him to throw more overhanded.

And you have the same doubts about VY taking hits? That seems absurd!! VY=6'5" 230lb.
Bush=6'0" 200lb.:homer:

Bush is used to being hit almost every time he touches the ball, not to mention Vince is a bigger target to hit and he runs straight up rather than protecting himself so he will have to learn how to do that before he takes a serious pounding.

Big B Texan Fan
01-16-2006, 07:00 PM
Bush is used to being hit almost every time he touches the ball, not to mention Vince is a bigger target to hit and he runs straight up rather than protecting himself so he will have to learn how to do that before he takes a serious pounding.


Vince has been hit alot as well and is used to it. Remember the Ohio St game, his jersey was filthy from going down alot. Also he has never been injured, not in high school, not in college. Both coaches have gone on record and said so. His size is superior to most other dual threat QB's and for those who want to say Culpepper is bigger than him, well not by too much and VY runs circles around him.
He's :superman:
Bush is:taz: @ best

Texans_Chick
01-16-2006, 07:37 PM
Bush is used to being hit almost every time he touches the ball, not to mention Vince is a bigger target to hit and he runs straight up rather than protecting himself so he will have to learn how to do that before he takes a serious pounding.

Actually, it seems to me that Vince rarely gets really hit. Often, he runs out of bounds after he gets the yardage he needs, unless it looks like he can get a TD. He also seems to have good pocket awareness and balance--side stepping the rush as it is coming in.

I know a lot of folks criticize how many carries per game Bush has had in his career with USC, but in some ways that is a plus because he doesn't have that much tread on the tires.

BTW, IIRC, there was a news report that suggested midseason that Bush would need off season shoulder surgery, and then I never heard anything about that again. Anybody else remember that?

dat_boy_yec
01-16-2006, 07:38 PM
Let me break it down for everybody. QB's are more expensive than RB's so any argument that can be applied to Vince can also be applied to Reggie. Second off, Bush can make an immidiate impact while Vince cannot. With Reggie you can keep Carr with no complications. Draft Vince and there will be problems as to who the players want to follow, would they sabbotage the game to get their way maybe not, but would they play their best, also doubtful. As far as durability issues are concerned and who can take a hit better, it is not about who can take it look at Palmer no matter how tough you are if you are hit the wrong way you will be hurt. Vince is 6'5'' 230 Bush is 6' 200 you do the math if you add 5 inches to Bush how much do you think he'll weigh. A QB has to be more techically sound than a RB so the pressure would be on more on Vince, I can understand ppl wanting to have Vince here. Hell the homer in me would be thrilled, but the analitical mind in me that wants to see this team make a huge improvement next year wants Bush. I can see why ppl would want to pick Vince but to say he is a no brainer is just ludicrous.

gameguy89
01-16-2006, 07:43 PM
Draft Vince and there will be problems as to who the players want to follow, would they sabbotage the game to get their way maybe not, but would they play their best, also doubtful. As far as durability issues are concerned and who can take a hit better, it is not about who can take it look at Palmer no matter how tough you are if you are hit the wrong way you will be hurt.

My thoughts exactly (to the durability issues and Palmer)

I actually had a friend earlier this year that jokingly said that the line could never be as bad as our line is unless they were trying to intentionally sabotage the game. Though I didn't think that they would really do that (how fast would they be fired if it was somehow proven?), it did strike a nerve...