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Caw Daddy
01-06-2006, 08:50 AM
some dude on cold pizza said he talked to CC and CC said

Carrs option will be taken-

also the guy said that CC isnt allowed to talk about it but he told him indirectly that reggie bush is too awesome to pass on.

David and Reggie 06'
"Still no offensive line"

what do we do fellow forum fiends?
im all for trading that ish and getting some nasty OL coughD.FERGUSONcough and some picks

Texas_Thrill
01-06-2006, 08:54 AM
Go DEFENSE....

O-line is deep this year in the draft and Fergie boy hasn't looked like the manchild I'd expect out of a top 5 lineman. Maybe if we traded back to 10-12 range I'd be fore taking him but at this point it seems like Winston Justice could be the way to go.

TheOgre
01-06-2006, 09:39 AM
The team is forced to take Bush or Young at this point unless we got a "very interesting" offer. The fans want someone flashy. To get them back in the seats, that is what McNair will have to do. It is unfortunate, because I think the right thing to do is trade down with the Jets and take Ferguson. If the Titans take Ferguson, then you will have a shot at Young, Lienart, or Bush anyway. You could even trade down again or go defense at that point. We really have to get better in the front seven on defense and the O-line. Until that happens, this team will be spinning its wheels.

The Preacher
01-06-2006, 10:08 AM
The team is forced to take Bush or Young at this point unless we got a "very interesting" offer. The fans want someone flashy. To get them back in the seats, that is what McNair will have to do. It is unfortunate, because I think the right thing to do is trade down with the Jets and take Ferguson. If the Titans take Ferguson, then you will have a shot at Young, Lienart, or Bush anyway. You could even trade down again or go defense at that point. We really have to get better in the front seven on defense and the O-line. Until that happens, this team will be spinning its wheels.

We agree as do most I think around here. Unless we pick up an all-pro lineman in FA it would be practically unthinkable to let the current 70 sack average go on any longer. Even with three step drops the only options are a dumpoff, quick hitch, or sack. Carr doesn't even know how to look off a receiver because he has never had time too. I believe any QB with great athleticism and decent intellect can grow tremendously with experience at the pro level if afforded the opportuntity. DC has simply not had the luxury of having the smallest resemblance of confidence in his o-line so it's no wonder he sometimes makes bad decisions when he actually has two seconds. It would a shame and massive waste of time and talent to move on at this point when you finally have a chance to build not only a good but possibly great line, plus add talent to the other side of the ball.

Straightshooter
01-06-2006, 11:11 AM
*cough* *cough* wow so much smoke can barley breathe.......SMOKESCREEN!! Dont believe anything until the pick goes down. This is the game all teams play to fool other teams.

TheOgre
01-06-2006, 11:23 AM
Straightshooter,

What would you think of LenDale White in an Eagle's uniform? I think he would be a great fit there.

Bubbajwp
01-06-2006, 12:44 PM
We can still get good oline in the second and third round.

Jack Bauer
01-06-2006, 12:49 PM
It is unfortunate, because I think the right thing to do is trade down with the Jets and take Ferguson.

I just think using a top 4 pick for Ferguson is just too high. I don't think he is a franchise type tackle. Of course, I could be wrong.

HOOK'EM
01-18-2006, 05:03 AM
Get da BUSH!:redtowel:

bckey
01-18-2006, 09:46 AM
I just think using a top 4 pick for Ferguson is just too high. I don't think he is a franchise type tackle. Of course, I could be wrong.

I would take AJ Hawk at #4 over Ferguson.

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 09:55 AM
I wouldn't take Ferguson at #4 and I also wouldn't take any of this year's LBs at #4. LBs don't need to go this high unless they are a freak of nature like LaVar Arrington was, and none of this year's are that good, plus we have some contract issues with a couple of our LBs and that would make it hard to bring in another one right now. I would take Mario Williams this high if he puts up some impressive numbers in workouts otherwise I'd look to move lower in the draft.

tulexan
01-18-2006, 09:58 AM
If we stayed at a 3-4 I would consider taking Haloti Ngata at #4. He is the ultimate NT in a 3-4 and Mario Williams would be wasted in our scheme unless you made him an OLB

TheOgre
01-18-2006, 09:59 AM
LBs don't need to go this high unless they are a freak of nature like LaVar Arrington was, and none of this year's are that good

I read somewhere that AJ Hawk is the highest rated LB in the draft since Arrington. I'm not saying we should trade down and take him. I am just trying to be objective about all of the options.

Grid
01-18-2006, 09:59 AM
if Kiper's first mock is any indication.. if we trade down and get another #2 pick.. we could pick up two of the elite OT prospects in this draft (if we wanted to)

Only Dbrick and Justice were drafted in the first round in his mock.


I think trading down brings us closer to being competitive. I can understand why Bush is a good pick.. I wouldnt mind having him just to have another playmaker, and someone who could shine in the Denver style of offense. But if Denver can put up 2000 yards with their backs this season.. and make it to the AFC championship on their shoulders.. then I think we can do it with our guys. What we will need though is more talent on defense.. and I think we could address that with a trade down. There are a slew of very talented defensive players available in this draft..and alot of them are at positions where we could really use them.

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 10:00 AM
If we stayed at a 3-4 I would consider taking Haloti Ngata at #4. He is the ultimate NT in a 3-4 and Mario Williams would be wasted in our scheme unless you made him an OLB

Ngata should be great, but like LBs, DTs generally aren't taken that high and I wouldn't take Ngata if I were the Texans, our DL for a 3-4 is pretty good, I'd only take a DL if we switch to a 4-3 and we are getting a DE for it.

if Kiper's first mock is any indication.. if we trade down and get another #2 pick.. we could pick up two of the elite OT prospects in this draft (if we wanted to)

Only Dbrick and Justice were drafted in the first round in his mock.


I think trading down brings us closer to being competitive. I can understand why Bush is a good pick.. I wouldnt mind having him just to have another playmaker, and someone who could shine in the Denver style of offense. But if Denver can put up 2000 yards with their backs this season.. and make it to the AFC championship on their shoulders.. then I think we can do it with our guys. What we will need though is more talent on defense.. and I think we could address that with a trade down. There are a slew of very talented defensive players available in this draft..and alot of them are at positions where we could really use them.

If Eric Winston somehow slipped to the 2nd round he would be the steal of the draft at #33, and I'd have no problem taking Mario at #4 if we switch to a 4-3 and then grab Eric Winston at #33, I had previously posted a scenario in which we trade up to #22 with Denver and grab Winston there, but if we can get him at #33 instead that's even better.

Spoda
01-18-2006, 10:11 AM
i am so tired of hearing how studs don't fit our scheme...peppers and DJ and the like..we need to be in a scheme where we can take these freaks of nature that make plays...so we don't have to gamble on the babins and peeks of the world...

Grid
01-18-2006, 10:15 AM
speaking of studs that dont fit our scheme.. is Eric Winston fitting for a denver style Oline?

hmm.. actually i just checked NFL draft countdown to see, and he does sound like a real good fit, even if he is 312 pounds.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/ericwinston.html

Extremely athletic and quick.. amazing feet.. outstanding mobility.. sounds good to me. Plus..he came to college as a tight end.. which makes me think that he may be even better if he dropped a little weight.

Kaiser Toro
01-18-2006, 10:18 AM
If Eric Winston somehow slipped to the 2nd round he would be the steal of the draft at #33, and I'd have no problem taking Mario at #4 if we switch to a 4-3 and then grab Eric Winston at #33, I had previously posted a scenario in which we trade up to #22 with Denver and grab Winston there, but if we can get him at #33 instead that's even better.

If this played out I will be popping and locking. :)

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 10:26 AM
speaking of studs that dont fit our scheme.. is Eric Winston fitting for a denver style Oline?

hmm.. actually i just checked NFL draft countdown to see, and he does sound like a real good fit, even if he is 312 pounds.

http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/scoutingreports/ot/ericwinston.html

Extremely athletic and quick.. amazing feet.. outstanding mobility.. sounds good to me. Plus..he came to college as a tight end.. which makes me think that he may be even better if he dropped a little weight.

Winston is a great athlete, he played TE for his 1st year (when Miami lost to Ohio St. in the championship game) and did see some playing time even with Kellen Winslow in front of him on the depth chart. He could drop a little weight but I think 315 isn't too big for a OT, and he's still pretty athletic so I think he would work out well in a zone-blocking running game and is quite good in pass protection, maybe not quite as good of a pass blocker as Ferguson, but he's much better in run blocking, and he is the general on Miami's line that calls out blitzes and protections and everything too so he is a smart player.

Big B Texan Fan
01-18-2006, 10:28 AM
i am so tired of hearing how studs don't fit our scheme...peppers and DJ and the like..we need to be in a scheme where we can take these freaks of nature that make plays...so we don't have to gamble on the babins and peeks of the world...
I'm with you on this Spoda, You scheme to your strengths, not force your strengths to play your scheme. That's why teams like NE are so successful.

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 10:31 AM
I'm with you on this Spoda, You scheme to your strengths, not force your strengths to play your scheme. That's why teams like NE are so successful.

Teams like New England and Denver are successful because they establish their scheme and then go find players that fit the scheme, players that other teams frequently don't rate that high (i.e. all the RBs that Denver gets later in the draft that fit their scheme, OLinemen that other teams might not rate real highly but fit their scheme, etc.). In team sports, especially football, you can't keep adjusting your schemes to accomodate new players you bring in, you have to figure out the scheme you want to run (as long as it is successful) and then find players that fit that scheme.

tulexan
01-18-2006, 10:33 AM
Haloti Ngata is a stud. He is unbelievably athletic for a NT and at Oregon would drop into coverage every once in a while.

Spoda
01-18-2006, 10:57 AM
Teams like New England and Denver are successful because they establish their scheme and then go find players that fit the scheme, players that other teams frequently don't rate that high (i.e. all the RBs that Denver gets later in the draft that fit their scheme, OLinemen that other teams might not rate real highly but fit their scheme, etc.). In team sports, especially football, you can't keep adjusting your schemes to accomodate new players you bring in, you have to figure out the scheme you want to run (as long as it is successful) and then find players that fit that scheme.


point well taken but to continually pass on guys you are sure can can play(as sure as you can be) is not a good plan...instead we are gambling on tweeners and hoping they can make the "switch" and passing on guys who can step in and make an impact...we take LBs and move them inside then back outside all over the place and expect them to be able to do things they have never been asked to do...

MorKnolle
01-18-2006, 11:10 AM
point well taken but to continually pass on guys you are sure can can play(as sure as you can be) is not a good plan...instead we are gambling on tweeners and hoping they can make the "switch" and passing on guys who can step in and make an impact...we take LBs and move them inside then back outside all over the place and expect them to be able to do things they have never been asked to do...

Agreed, every now and then there are players that are good enough that you draft them and alter the system to fit them in. Michael Vick was thought to be that player, and their hybrid offensive system didn't work out too well, and trying to conform him into a different system hasn't either. It is much easier to manipulate such systems in college because a stud player is so far ahead of everyone else, but in the NFL it's harder to do. Some people think Vince Young is that kind of special player that you cater an offensive system to, others think Reggie Bush is that special guy, and some (myself included, although I think Bush is closer to being that kind of special player) don't think either is quite that special and should not be placed above the rest of the team and its system, although if anything it is probably easier to manipulate part of the offense (i.e. the running game) to accomodate a special RB than to change the entire offense to suit a QB (like in Vick's case).

cuppacoffee
01-18-2006, 03:48 PM
point well taken but to continually pass on guys you are sure can can play(as sure as you can be) is not a good plan...instead we are gambling on tweeners and hoping they can make the "switch" and passing on guys who can step in and make an impact...we take LBs and move them inside then back outside all over the place and expect them to be able to do things they have never been asked to do...

We also played musical chairs with our O-linemen.

It's called pizz poor coaching, which we had in abundance last season.

dat_boy_yec
01-18-2006, 09:03 PM
I think IF we traded down we should go with Ngata if his available. I mean how many people can name our NTs besides Payne. Thats what I thought (unless you named them) add to this that Payne is getting on in yrs. We would be filling a need if we stay in the 3-4 and a stud. I think we're set for a while at LB's even if they're not the greatest.

run-david-run
01-18-2006, 09:54 PM
I think IF we traded down we should go with Ngata if his available. I mean how many people can name our NTs besides Payne. Thats what I thought (unless you named them) add to this that Payne is getting on in yrs. We would be filling a need if we stay in the 3-4 and a stud. I think we're set for a while at LB's even if they're not the greatest.
lol, in a 3-4, there is only one nose tackle...unless you mean the reserves, in which case its Junior Ione....

CITY CAT
01-18-2006, 09:57 PM
We used last year's 1st round pick on Travis Johnson, he appears to be the next NT for the franchise.

Nighthawk
01-19-2006, 12:33 AM
Agreed, every now and then there are players that are good enough that you draft them and alter the system to fit them in. Michael Vick was thought to be that player, and their hybrid offensive system didn't work out too well, and trying to conform him into a different system hasn't either. It is much easier to manipulate such systems in college because a stud player is so far ahead of everyone else, but in the NFL it's harder to do. Some people think Vince Young is that kind of special player that you cater an offensive system to, others think Reggie Bush is that special guy, and some (myself included, although I think Bush is closer to being that kind of special player) don't think either is quite that special and should not be placed above the rest of the team and its system, although if anything it is probably easier to manipulate part of the offense (i.e. the running game) to accomodate a special RB than to change the entire offense to suit a QB (like in Vick's case).

Except, of course, in the present situation WE HAVE NO SCHEME, so we're building from scratch whatever way we go. Is that your slip showing there? Quite pretty.

P_Buchanon
01-19-2006, 01:08 AM
ESPN reports that the Texans are drafting Reggie Bush No. 1

Drafting Vince Young #1; Improves the football team, increases ticket sales/ more sell outs at home, increase sales of Texans football gear and memorabilla.

Mr. McNair now has a chance to walk the walk and instruct Charlie Casserly to draft Vince #1.

The Texans will loose supporters if Vince is not drafted by the Texans , after showcasing his talents on National TV.

The Texans can get additional draft choices and/or impact players for David Carr, which will give him a fresh start.

Mr. McNair has the controls.

texan279
01-19-2006, 01:12 AM
ESPN reports that the Texans are drafting Reggie Bush No. 1

Drafting Vince Young #1; Improves the football team, increases ticket sales/ more sell outs at home, increase sales of Texans football gear and memorabilla.

Mr. McNair now has a chance to walk the walk and instruct Charlie Casserly to draft Vince #1.

The Texans will loose supporters if Vince is not drafted by the Texans , after showcasing his talents on National TV.

The Texans can get additional draft choices and/or impact players for David Carr, which will give him a fresh start.

Mr. McNair has the controls.

If fans want to jump ship because we don't draft Young more power to them. And as far as getting anything for Carr, we would have to sign him to the extension then trade him. If the front office wanted to go that route I would imagine they would just let him go without resigning him so they wouldn't have to absorb his cap hit.

J-Storm
01-19-2006, 08:40 AM
ESPN reports that the Texans are drafting Reggie Bush No. 1

Drafting Vince Young #1; Improves the football team, increases ticket sales/ more sell outs at home, increase sales of Texans football gear and memorabilla.

Mr. McNair now has a chance to walk the walk and instruct Charlie Casserly to draft Vince #1.

The Texans will loose supporters if Vince is not drafted by the Texans , after showcasing his talents on National TV.

The Texans can get additional draft choices and/or impact players for David Carr, which will give him a fresh start.

Mr. McNair has the controls.

DAMN, what a load o' trash! People dumping their home team because they don't like the fact a home player wasn't selected. Please tell me there was something in the water you drank when you posted this P_Buch...:wacko:

I'm a Lakers fan. I didn't spit it like Shaq did with Kobe and jump to being a Heat fan because of it. It doesn't happen that way in reality and when it actually does, it shows you that the people who do that aren't really true fans...

Here in Australia, the Rugby League team i support (Melbourne Storm) lost their playmaker and general to a rival club. Will I be jumping ship with him and leaving the rest of the team high and dry - NO! Mainly because I like to think I'm a true fan...

With or w/out the Texans drafting VY, I will still be a Texan fan and hope that VY does well wherever he goes (even if it is the Titans)

P_Buchanon
01-19-2006, 08:51 AM
DAMN, what a load o' trash! People dumping their home team because they don't like the fact a home player wasn't selected. Please tell me there was something in the water you drank when you posted this P_Buch...:wacko:

I'm a Lakers fan. I didn't spit it like Shaq did with Kobe and jump to being a Heat fan because of it. It doesn't happen that way in reality and when it actually does, it shows you that the people who do that aren't really true fans...

Here in Australia, the Rugby League team i support (Melbourne Storm) lost their playmaker and general to a rival club. Will I be jumping ship with him and leaving the rest of the team high and dry - NO! Mainly because I like to think I'm a true fan...

With or w/out the Texans drafting VY, I will still be a Texan fan and hope that VY does well wherever he goes (even if it is the Titans)

:cool: Well, this is not my opinion... Its just a post from the ESPN site!!!

Glacier
01-19-2006, 09:18 AM
I'm with you on this Spoda, You scheme to your strengths, not force your strengths to play your scheme. That's why teams like NE are so successful.

I couldn't agree more. I love to hear how coaches adapt to their talent rather than find talent to fit schemes. Good example with NE.

Glacier
01-19-2006, 09:23 AM
if Cass says pick reggie, I say do the polar opposite. Can't go wrong NOT doing what Cass says.

MorKnolle
01-19-2006, 10:55 AM
I couldn't agree more. I love to hear how coaches adapt to their talent rather than find talent to fit schemes. Good example with NE.

The Patriots do not take random guys that are considered the BPA and then adjust their scheme to fit them, they go out of their way to get the people that fit their scheme, and they are very good at identifying people that will fit their team, that is why they are so good.