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Grid
01-06-2006, 02:14 AM
I know we have enough threads on Vince Young.. but this is the only way I could respond to everyone who is talking about him.

I just wanted to remind everyone that when Casserly was asked about Vince Young, he said that they would be extending Carr's contract.

And before you say "YAH! but they could mean it as they will extend it to let Young prepare for his first year in the NFL"

no..that isnt what he meant... it was made very clear that he was answering the Vince Young debate in the only way he was allowed to be the NFL's rules and regulations.


So.. while Vince Young isnt entirely out of the question.. lets try to keep in mind that Carr is still our QB.. hes taken a heck of beating in this town and is still fighting for us.. and he deserves a bit more respect than this. AND... you may also want to belay that order for your #10 Battle Red jersey.. and quit recommending offseason moves that will best compliment your new QB.

Im not one of the diehard Carr protectors here.. I understand his issues.. but I at least have the good sense and manners to not dog on one of my own players this way. 3 months of this would be entirely unacceptable.

El Tejano
01-06-2006, 02:29 AM
Amen to that.

I do wanna say this though. I don't wanna play Vince Young twice a season when we play the Titans. That dude is basically Steve Mcnair on roids.

Grid
01-06-2006, 02:42 AM
I dont think he has McNair's arm.. but they have similar size and athletic ability.. and if the Rose Bowl is any indication, Young may have better accuracy.

I could live with Young being in Tennessee.. I dont think playing against him would be any harder than it was to play against McNair.. and we did fine against him.

LongBignasty1
01-06-2006, 02:47 AM
We did fine against him when he was at the end of his career. Young has been tutored by Mcnair since his childhood days when he used to attend his camp. cowbell baby!

Grid
01-06-2006, 02:59 AM
I just put the cowbell in temporary retirement :).. he will return as soon as Carr is signed to his extension, or the Draft is over.. whichever comes first.

beerlover
01-06-2006, 03:02 AM
Carr has been paid well for his time here, understands this is a buisness & the unique opportunity that Vince Young presents for his soon to be ex- teamates. he deserves the same treatment Capers got nothing more nothing less. its time to make changes plain and simple. Casserly forced the issue and made the deceision to draft a QB first overall in 2002 even though it was an extremely weak year for QB's, I don't blame Carr for being the Texans 1st overall pick I blame Casserly. now he has a chance to make ammends and take a true franchise QB and all anyone is worried about his offending David and addressing more common needs c'mon Cass smell the coffee :coffee: or its off with your head as well :violin

Grid
01-06-2006, 03:07 AM
I dont think Vince Young is a true franchise QB any more than Carr is. I think we should stick with the talent we have.. and address other needs.

And I dont think Carr would agree that he has been paid well for his time here.

ledzeppelin229
01-06-2006, 03:13 AM
I dont think Vince Young is a true franchise QB any more than Carr is. I think we should stick with the talent we have.. and address other needs.

And I dont think Carr would agree that he has been paid well for his time here.

Millions is millions. He could be making $20,000 fighting terrorists in Afghanistan right now.

Grid
01-06-2006, 03:18 AM
Thats a pretty low blow there.

Fact of the matter is that Carr has made average money while getting beat on 10x harder than other QBs, and the whole time taking flack from a bad houston fanbase.

In comparison to other NFL QBs... no.. he wasnt paid well for having his career shortened and his named dragged through the mud.

My god.. this really is crazy. Im not even a huge Carr supporter and im the only person defending him.. its freaking amazing.. I was not aware that our fanbase was this shallow. I am literally awestruck at the total lack of loyalty.

Pscooter21
01-06-2006, 04:42 AM
He has been paid. If it had been league minimum I could see your point. He has made millions. He will be appropriately compensated when they probably give him his extention , but will we be, when or if he doesn't improve. Then in the present we miss out on a great QB? In hopes that our present commander in chief shows greatness with a bolstered O line from free agency and rookie draft choices. Are the O linemen in this draft that incredible? As for the bashing The QB gets the glory so be prepared for the wrath. I think he's a big boy and can handle some criticsm. Now if some show loyalty to a Texas boy over another, why are they wrong? Is it bashing saying we need a change? 4 yrs why let it go on any longer? Let the man go and create a better situation for homself else ware. Isn't that fair?

Later...................

Pscooter21...............

Grid
01-06-2006, 05:03 AM
Hes fought for this team and taken a beating and kept on playing at 100% for 4 years and your reply to that is "let him find a better situation for himself elsewhere"

Classy.

Read this so I dont have to type it all again (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=240345#post240345)

Pscooter21
01-06-2006, 05:25 AM
Hes fought for this team and taken a beating and kept on playing at 100% for 4 years and your reply to that is "let him find a better situation for himself elsewhere"

Classy.

Read this so I dont have to type it all again (http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?p=240345#post240345)


Because I think he should look else where. Yes he's taken a beating yes the Texans have probably shortened his career. But 46.27 Million is alot, granted not Carson Palmer money but he's no Carson Palmer.

Later..................

Pscooter21............

rittenhouserobz
01-06-2006, 05:30 AM
I like Carr. Vince Young has not even taken a snap in an NFL; therefore, I can't confim or deny how he will play at the NFL level. Carr on the other hand has taken many hard Knocks and gotten back up. If we draft VY and fix our OL at the same time, then we are asking for a SD debacle. Carr will look magnificent as he is throwing 30-yard ropes on the button to our oft -injured Joppru. Yes I predict that if the Texans take a QB in the draft this is waht will happen. That QB will sit on our bech.

BTW if the Texans were to draft a QB I would want Leinart. He is closer to Carr in style of play which is important to the OL. Vince Young would probably be a huge disruption if he had to come into a game for Carr i.e. I think the OL would get in Young's way. Young would be better suited to play for Atlanta.

Titanic
01-06-2006, 05:35 AM
I'd just like to stick my nose in here. I'm a Titan fan, so you probably won't care, but I really respect Carr. The kid has had a tough time in a bad situation, but he seems like a fighter. Not to mention he's mobile and he's got a GUN. If you guys don't end up taking VY and he drops to us I'd love it, but I hope you guys won't crucify Carr. I think he'd be a pretty damn good QB if he had a line in front of him and a TE he could dump the ball off to. Really hope the kid succeeds, no matter what happens. Who knows, maybe if you cut him he'll end up here lol...

J-Storm
01-06-2006, 06:41 AM
Because I think he should look else where. Yes he's taken a beating yes the Texans have probably shortened his career. But 46.27 Million is alot, granted not Carson Palmer money but he's no Carson Palmer.

Later..................

Pscooter21............

The WHOLE season isn't even finished in it's entirety and we are already running our QB outta town. There's a concept that might work in our favour huh *hopes the sarcasm is duly noted there*.

Put Palmer behind our O-Line, Carr behind there's and see who makes the playoffs next year (and i'm pretty sure it ain't us)... :twocents:

aj.
01-06-2006, 07:05 AM
Fact of the matter is that Carr has made average money ......

In comparison to other NFL QBs... no.. he wasnt paid well for having his career shortened and his named dragged through the mud.



Average money, huh?

Carr has made at least $21.75 million in real money since he's been here. Compare that to other Texans players and that number will be at or near the top of the earnings list over that period.



Paper: Houston Chronicle
Date: SAT 04/20/02
Section: Special
Page: 5
Edition: 3 Star

Texans/NFL Draft/With contract, Carr is a $46 million man

by JOHN McCLAIN
Staff

NEW YORK - After NFL commisioner Paul Tagliabue announces David Carr as the first pick in today's draft, the quarterback will return to Houston and sign his seven- year, $46.2 million contract at a Texans news conference tonight.

Early last week, Carr agreed to the deal that could be worth almost $60 million if he reaches incentives...

Carr's deal, negotiated by Octagon agent Mike Sullivan, calls for a signing bonus of $10.92 million and a $3.08 million bonus to be paid March 1, 2003.

Over the first three years of the contract, Carr will earn $16,25 million (guaranteed) which eclipses Atlanta quarterback Michael Vick's rookie record of $15.3 million...

In 2005, Carr's base salary skyrockets to $5.5 million. The Texans have the option of buying back the last two or three years of his contract.

The real argument should be do we cut bait on a $22 million investement that yielded little or no return, or do we buy more stock in it - stock that's still priced high based on potential - despite average-at-best performance?

Grid
01-06-2006, 07:11 AM
bah.. of course the Cap guy is gonna stick his nose in MY comment :)

aj.
01-06-2006, 07:17 AM
I'd much rather talk x's and o's than cap but it's a necessary evil and it infiltrates football discussions, especially this time of year. Until you made the comment about him making "average money" you were well under the radar on this one.. :)

p.s., I have referenced that same article dozens of times in the last four years. Since I stopped doing the cap page on hpf, I almost chunked that file but it still comes in handy from time to time...

Grid
01-06-2006, 07:34 AM
hah.. well thank god you saved it :P

nice to know that I wasnt even a blip on your radar till I made a cap fopah :) heheh

Texans Horror
01-06-2006, 07:43 AM
I am happy with Carr, and I am happy with Davis. I am happy with Young, and I am happy with Bush. The what if's are great to talk about, but nothing can really be known until after we have a coach onboard, and that probably won't happen until late January/early February. And IMO, I'm more concerned about the captain of the ship than the sailors on the vessel.

edo783
01-06-2006, 10:44 AM
Frankly, I agree with Grid. I have NEVER seen such a bunch of front running, whinning , flavor of the month, hate on our team & players, non supporting fans in my life. You can say what you want, but a great many of you DON'T have the best interest of the team in mind, but rather want to promote your idea & favorite player so you can pull it out around the drinking fountan and say "Look, mine is bigger". Frankly, as a fan base we are known around the country as one of if not the worst and people elswhere make jokes about us as a bunch of front runners.

SheTexan
01-06-2006, 01:10 PM
Frankly, I agree with Grid. I have NEVER seen such a bunch of front running, whinning , flavor of the month, hate on our team & players, non supporting fans in my life. You can say what you want, but a great many of you DON'T have the best interest of the team in mind, but rather want to promote your idea & favorite player so you can pull it out around the drinking fountan and say "Look, mine is bigger". Frankly, as a fan base we are known around the country as one of if not the worst and people elswhere make jokes about us as a bunch of front runners.

Sad, but true! BUT, an extremely small percentage of our fanbase reads or post on this or any other MB. Just because a bunch of lamebrains found this MB as a way to spew their negative thoughts, doesn't mean all of H-town feels the same way.

There have been numerous post about who is a good, bad, or true fan. Just support our team, regardless of your own personal opinions!! Express them, debate them, go to bed with them. BUT, when all is said and done, be there for our TEXANS!! 100%!! JMO!!

run-david-run
01-06-2006, 01:13 PM
We did fine against him when he was at the end of his career. Young has been tutored by Mcnair since his childhood days when he used to attend his camp. cowbell baby!
well then lets hope that after we trade down to the 4 spot and get D'Brick, NO drafts Young and Tenn drafts Leinart, i think young has a much better shot at becoming GREAT then Leinart, although Leinart is more of a sure thing in terms of at least being decent. I still think he is Jason White in disgusie though....

SESupergenius
01-06-2006, 02:26 PM
The real argument should be do we cut bait on a $22 million investement that yielded little or no return, or do we buy more stock in it - stock that's still priced high based on potential - despite average-at-best performance?
If you got rid of Carr then you are throwing some money away AND investing in a IPO stock (Young) that has as small of a track record that you are giving up. Add to that that if you do not address the line issues and the defense then that stock will not appreciate either in a timely manner as well. It makes good short term sense to draft a homer in V. Young because of the college fan base, but if he doesn't live up to potential, like every QB of his type, then in the long run you will lose the fans that are not from his college. If there was a possible to way to keep Carr and draft Young by trading down a slot then I might be for that, but the money situation it brings just doesn't seem feasible. Like I said before, Casserly and his staff are going to have earn their salaries this year.

eriadoc
01-06-2006, 02:36 PM
My god.. this really is crazy. Im not even a huge Carr supporter and im the only person defending him.. its freaking amazing.. I was not aware that our fanbase was this shallow. I am literally awestruck at the total lack of loyalty.

I am completely in favor of giving Carr a chance behind a real offensive line. I think many of the Carr supporters just got tired of the message board rhetoric and sensationalism. I seldom bother pointing out things anymore that should be clearly evident to even the most ignorant of posters. So, you're not alone in your opinion, FWIW.