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Texans86
01-05-2006, 11:40 PM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 11:42 PM
No it doesn't mean you are a bad fan. Right now there are 3 camps of fans of the Texans. You have the Vince people, the Reggie people, and the trade down people. All have the same goal of making the team better, but each group has a different way to achieve it.

Tulip
01-05-2006, 11:46 PM
Of course not. That's really the nice thing about this draft - this year. Our team has options. Some drafts are much more top-talent poor.

Hervoyel
01-05-2006, 11:51 PM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.


You're not a bad fan. Honestly I find it hard to concure with you about neither of these players helping us in the long run but the fact that I disagree with you doesn't make you a bad fan. Whether we have a need in their particular areas (QB, RB) can be debated and whether they would upgrade the position enough to pick one first overall can also be argued. They are both however the kind of players that could help any team and I think they would help the Texans.

You and I want the same thing. We want a better Texans team. We just have different ideas on how to get there. If we trade down then I hope that works. I'll be on your side the second they trade that pick and I expect the people who don't want Reggie Bush (I'm in the Bush camp) to rally around him the moment his name is called if that ends up happening.

We're going to the same place. You're not a bad fan. You're a Texan fan and they don't get much better than that.

:texflag: :fans: :yahoo: :monkey:

Texans86
01-05-2006, 11:52 PM
It's good to hear support around here rather than arguement. Thanks guys.

LBC_Justin
01-06-2006, 12:06 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.
Your on the forums for a team that just went 2-14. There really are no bad fans here.

He this is the way I look at it. As long as your focus is on the success of the team, then you are a good fan. It is a given that people are going the disagree. If you were only pulling for Reggie and it was all about him and his career etc then I would say you are a good Reggie Bush fan but not a good Texans fan. I am a Texans fan, if we don't get a player, I may root for him but I am a fan of this team and that comes first.

You know what is crazy? Is that picking reggie, picking young or trading down may ALL lead to us being a great team. Who knows what the future holds.

thetexanator
01-06-2006, 12:08 AM
Dont listen to these other guys, your a BAD fan! you should be ashamed of yourself.

LBC_Justin
01-06-2006, 12:08 AM
I'll be on your side the second they trade that pick and I expect the people who don't want Reggie Bush (I'm in the Bush camp) to rally around him the moment his name is called if that ends up happening.

The moment the commish calls the name of the guy we draft, I will be a fan of his and hope he works out. Regardless of who it is.

AUSTexan
01-06-2006, 12:12 AM
The moment the commish calls the name of the guy we draft, I will be a fan of his and hope he works out. Regardless of who it is.


or "they" work out... (for the trade down camp) :)

Grid
01-06-2006, 12:17 AM
No im with ya on the trade down wagon. But the talking heads on ESPN did make a fairly inticing arguement about Bush and the packages that he will allow you to use with his versatility.

mancunian
01-06-2006, 03:06 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.

Not at all. We all want the same thing and thats a successful Texans team. We all have an opinion about the best way to achieve - just as Saunders, Kubiak or Linehan would have.
We dont all agree on whether Carr is the QB for this franchise - I think he is but I want to see him behind a decent O line. If he doesn't perform then I'll hold my hands up and say I got it wrong.
My view of the draft - any draft - is you take the best available player, if thats Bush thats Bush. If we trade down philosophy is still the same.

Wharton
01-06-2006, 08:20 AM
The beautiful thing here is, I think I like all the different options we have in this draft.

I like VY, I like Bush, and I like trading for more picks. Of coarse, I seem to be changing my mind about which one I like the most from day to day! But, all three are good options.

I will say this, I feel sorry for VY if he comes out and he ends up going to the Saints. If you think we have problems, take a look at the Saints. No home field, crappy ownership, a mad fan base, a history of losing, and HC position that I doubt anyone wants. Yikes!

HoustonFrog
01-06-2006, 08:23 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.

You are not a bad fan at all if that is your feeling and you think the Texans should go in a direction you like. I think yesterday people got frustrated at the sudden bandwagon mentality that seemed to appear overnight. But fans should question what the team is doing when they are 2-14.

HJam72
01-06-2006, 08:26 AM
OK, I'm for trading down, but I don't think the Young people are bandwagoners either. The guy had a monster bowl game AGAIN. Combine that with the fact that Bush didn't look like Superman, although he did his part, and I can see why people want him. Shoot, I'd take him right now if trading down was not an option.

The guy had 400 all-purpose yards to win the National Championship. That doesn't just happen out of luck or having a good day.

OzzO
01-06-2006, 08:26 AM
No it doesn't mean you are a bad fan. Right now there are 3 camps of fans of the Texans. You have the Vince people, the Reggie people, and the trade down people. All have the same goal of making the team better, but each group has a different way to achieve it.

...I'm in the 4th camp - bringing in a quality coach and assistants, then work on the front office. Mainly because like what's mentioned above, this camp also believes whomever is picked will help our team. (Assuming Casserly won't trade 3 picks for a field goal kicker.)

Marcus
01-06-2006, 08:28 AM
Wharton, I think you're a BAD fan!;)

Just like I think McNair and Casserly are BAD fans, because I truly believe they feel the same way you do.

OH BTW . . . I'm a BAD fan, too!:heh:

Buffi2
01-06-2006, 08:30 AM
The beautiful thing here is, I think I like all the different options we have in this draft.

I like VY, I like Bush, and I like trading for more picks. Of coarse, I seem to be changing my mind about which one I like the most from day to day! But, all three are good options.

I will say this, I feel sorry for VY if he comes out and he ends up going to the Saints. If you think we have problems, take a look at the Saints. No home field, crappy ownership, a mad fan base, a history of losing, and HC position that I doubt anyone wants. Yikes!

My thoughts exactly!:yahoo: In any given hour - I can change my mind three or four times. As for anyone - VY or Leinert or Bush going to the Saints? They have my sympathy as that won't be an easy road.

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 08:31 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.

No you are not a bad fan. But you may be a novice of the board because there are opinions on umpteen scenarios. Check out the NFL Draft 2006 forum as well.

SheTexan
01-06-2006, 10:23 AM
Well, coming from the FEMALE side of the debate, I think you are a very intelligent fan! I've never been sold on the idea of ONE particular player making or breaking a team. All the GREAT, HOF players out there, had a fantastic supporting cast. VY romped around like a one man wreaking ball, that won't happen in the NFL. RB slips and slids, does somersaults, and tries all kind of cutsie little moves, that will haunt him in the NFL, won't work. Yes, I agree that both have special talents, BUT, they would NEVER be able to demonstrate those talents without great football players on both sides of the ball. Not enough credit has been given to the supporting players, IMHO!

Personally, I don't think CC FIRST draft picks have been all that bad. David needs HELP, Dunte and AJ are fantastic, and TJ will be fine after he learns the NFL ropes. I have to believe the next first pick will be as talented as these four fine young men, and will work hard to become part of our young TEXAN team! I really don't care who that is!! There's always that "diamond in the ruff," and first round picks can always end up a bust. It's a gamble, anyway you look at it.

Double Barrel
01-06-2006, 10:54 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.

As has already been said, I agree that you're not a bad fan (unless you wore a bag on your head to a game ;) ).

I'm actually in a forth group of undecided voters. I can see valid points in every position, and there are great cases to be made. If you held my feet to the fire right now, I'd probably lean a little towards Reggie Bush. I mean the Next.Gale.Sayers?! How can you not be impressed with that?!

But given the opportunity to make a mega-deal - ie. a team makes an offer than can't be refused...say their first two picks for 2006 & 2007 - I'd seriously consider that option, as well.

But whatever decision Mr. McNair makes with regards to our future HC, as well as draft picks, will be 100% supported by me. Simply because it means progress and distance away from the dismal 2-14 season. And we can't steer the bus, so might as well enjoy the ride! :redtowel:

CenTexNative
01-06-2006, 10:59 AM
Does it make me a bad fan because I don't want either Reggie Bush or Vince Young? Am I the only person in Houston who doesn't see either of these players helping us in the long run (including cap hits and future free agent talent)? I think those of us who want to trade the pick are definately in the minority. Surely, if you are there, please speak up.
You are not alone. I believe the Texans need linemen first. But I mist also admit that the thought of Carr and Young as the two QBs for them is sounding better and better to me. As long as the line can block. And I also believe that it will take at least two years for either a RB or QB to develop.

TEXANRED
01-06-2006, 11:07 AM
The only bad fans are the ones that boo the home team and throw beer on players wifes and children. Other than that having an opinion on a draft pick isnt that big a deal.

Although I am in the Reggie camp.

Corrosion
01-06-2006, 11:11 AM
In the LONG run I think Either player helps the Texans .... Its the Near term that drafting Either Vince or Reggie hinders the development of the roster .

Drafting Vince I would HOPE that they didnt just throw him out there like they did Carr .... maybe sit him BEHIND Carr for a year or two .

Drafting Bush .... the RB position isnt a real weakness on this team . He could possibly be moved to WR (Not Permanently)to help him see the field more ...but he's not a 25 carry/ touch a game player .


Drafting EITHER of them slows the process of filling other holes on BOTH sides of the ball . We all know the state of the O-line .... PLEASE get a center AND LG so we dont have to see McKinney anymore .

There is a high probability that the Texans will move to a 4-3 next season and have to carry more DL than in the 3-4 .... This isnt a position of real strength . Neither do they have an OLB (Outside of Greenwood and Wong) that fit real well in that scheme .... How bad was Wong's injury and can he rebound ? Depth could be a problem .

D-Rob is a solid corner and the anchor of the DB's .... Coleman Needs to GO . CC Brown was servicable as a rookie and Glen Earl showed promise but D.Faggins isnt a starting calibur CB .... Solid as a nickle but not as a starter .

And lets not forget about a TE who can play every down not just SCREAM RUN or SCREAM PASS when he steps on the field ...

Drafting either guy will at some time in the future upgrade the position he would play be it RB or QB .... but at the cost of taking AT THE LEAST another off-season to fill all those other holes . It boils down to .... Do we want INSTANT GRATIFICATION (Most Fans) or do we want long term success ..... Building a Football team isnt done overnight , its a never-ending process . :twocents:

TXurias
01-06-2006, 11:24 AM
In the LONG run I think Either player helps the Texans .... Its the Near term that drafting Either Vince or Reggie hinders the development of the roster .

Drafting Vince I would HOPE that they didnt just throw him out there like they did Carr .... maybe sit him BEHIND Carr for a year or two .

Drafting Bush .... the RB position isnt a real weakness on this team . He could possibly be moved to WR (Not Permanently)to help him see the field more ...but he's not a 25 carry/ touch a game player .


Drafting EITHER of them slows the process of filling other holes on BOTH sides of the ball . We all know the state of the O-line .... PLEASE get a center AND LG so we dont have to see McKinney anymore .

There is a high probability that the Texans will move to a 4-3 next season and have to carry more DL than in the 3-4 .... This isnt a position of real strength . Neither do they have an OLB (Outside of Greenwood and Wong) that fit real well in that scheme .... How bad was Wong's injury and can he rebound ? Depth could be a problem .

D-Rob is a solid corner and the anchor of the DB's .... Coleman Needs to GO . CC Brown was servicable as a rookie and Glen Earl showed promise but D.Faggins isnt a starting calibur CB .... Solid as a nickle but not as a starter .

And lets not forget about a TE who can play every down not just SCREAM RUN or SCREAM PASS when he steps on the field ...

Drafting either guy will at some time in the future upgrade the position he would play be it RB or QB .... but at the cost of taking AT THE LEAST another off-season to fill all those other holes . It boils down to .... Do we want INSTANT GRATIFICATION (Most Fans) or do we want long term success ..... Building a Football team isnt done overnight , its a never-ending process . :twocents:
No matter what happens we would not be able to fill allthose wholes this year. Draft bush which opens up our offense since he can play RB/WR then get a good o-linemen in the 2nd round. Pick up a quality LB or DB in the 3rd. Still have a few picks to find a diamond in the rough at OL, TE, or defense.

Coach C.
01-06-2006, 11:29 AM
The only bad fans are the ones that boo the home team and throw beer on players wifes and children. Other than that having an opinion on a draft pick isnt that big a deal.
.

I am with you on this one. What gutless woman private part would throw beer at women and children. Be a man and face someone. Other than that you would be suprised how many people see this as an opportunity to turn around the team by trading down and adding the instrumental extra parts to our talented core. Why was Casserly not fired? Reeves said the core of the franchise was talented. Carr, Dunta, AJ, Pitts, and several others, plus some extra top ranked rookies will make this team a competitor like it was last year.

eric138
01-06-2006, 11:35 AM
No it doesn't mean you are a bad fan. Right now there are 3 camps of fans of the Texans. You have the Vince people, the Reggie people, and the trade down people. All have the same goal of making the team better, but each group has a different way to achieve it.

and the 4th camp, Take Young, trade Carr to Miami for Williams :drool: and their pick and get us a really good OT or Safety that will be available. Go UT, umm I mean Texans.. :redtowel:

Any way they do it the Texans are the best.. and are going places.. :cool:

TexanBacker93
01-06-2006, 11:43 AM
I don't think anyone that has a desire to see the team better regardless of how it gets there is a bad fan. The bad fans are the ones that will stop rooting for a team because they drafted a player other than what you wanted.

Two of the 3 camps can be appeased. If the team decided to trade down with say a Green Bay and pick up next year's #1 they could possibly end up with the 1st pick next season and Vince Young if he stays in school.

bigTEXan8
01-06-2006, 11:47 AM
No it doesn't mean you are a bad fan. Right now there are 3 camps of fans of the Texans. You have the Vince people, the Reggie people, and the trade down people. All have the same goal of making the team better, but each group has a different way to achieve it.
This is definitely one of the most accurate statements I've seen on this board. No one here is wrong, just it's emotional to want the same goal but to take 3 different directions to get there. Are some roads bumpy and are some smooth, bloody hell yeah. We can't take all the roads at the same time, so we pretty much have to agree to accept what ever direction McNair wants to go.

HoustonFrog
01-06-2006, 11:50 AM
Two of the 3 camps can be appeased. If the team decided to trade down with say a Green Bay and pick up next year's #1 they could possibly end up with the 1st pick next season and Vince Young if he stays in school.

I think you can do 2 of the 3 in this draft. I'm not sure I get the O-lineman theory. With this draft it makes no sense. D'Brick might be a great lineman but we DONT have playmakers. Andre is. Carr and DD aren't. There is a reason why our offense is so bad. We don't have the talent. Almost all Super Bowl teams have a franchise QB or RB and we have neither. Let me give you guys an example. Lets say there is a turnaround next year and, like this year we have 4-5 games that come down to one play or the last minute. Those games mean a wildcard birth. Do you want a guy who can break a kickoff return, run, screen pass for a TD and a win or a lineman who help us get DD and extra 10 yards and we lose again?The draft is deep at O-line. We have 7 other picks. 4 in the top 66. The Patrots line has a 2nd rounder and the rest are free agents and below the 3rd round. The Broncos have a 1st round, 20th pick and 2 4ths and a 7th. The draft IS NOT over aftter #1. You can have the best of both worlds. The Texans have that chance to get both this year and that isn't including free agency.

swtbound07
01-06-2006, 11:56 AM
The thing is guys, we do this EVERY YEAR. I was campaigning just as hard for sean taylor back in the day, but the second dunta robinson threw on that jersey i was backing him to the hilt......I remember a contingent that wanted troy williamson, because he was a playmaker, but after the draft, every one sort of forgot what they wanted and cheered for what they got. This board was lit up like christmas wanting derrick johnson, but nobody is bashing tj now that we have him. If we spend our first pick on reggie, vince, matt, or some guy i've never heard of named snarfee mcgee, then i will still cheer the pick....What name you want called doesnt make you a bad fan. Its what you do AFTER the draft, that defines you in my opinion

Scooter
01-06-2006, 11:58 AM
if you are, i'm a bad fan right there with you. the trade down group used to be the majority, but with the amount of new folks signing up, and us simply being tired of arguing the same point, the trade downers are a lot less visable. i know that i'm having trouble coming to the forum when there's only 2 topics to discuss and i've made my opinion known on both of them.

Scooter
01-06-2006, 12:00 PM
my official recommendation is to draft snarfee mcgee with the first, and address the holes with our later picks

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 12:11 PM
my official recommendation is to draft snarfee mcgee with the first, and address the holes with our later picks

You went out on a limb with Snarfee, but I dare to follow your lead at the risk of public ridicule. :cool:

TexanBacker93
01-06-2006, 12:12 PM
my official recommendation is to draft snarfee mcgee with the first, and address the holes with our later picks

I don't know about you, but I questioned McGee's performance in the State U. game. I think he mailed it in. Do you want that kind of guy in a Texans uniform?

swtbound07
01-06-2006, 12:15 PM
well, he is one of the highest rated prospects......in FOREVER. One bad game doesnt make snarfee a bad player.....or maybe im just wearing mcgee colored glasses

Coach C.
01-06-2006, 12:17 PM
Corbin Williams and Marzuez Bean are much better players than Snarfee and fill our needs for building an elite franchise.

Scooter
01-06-2006, 12:26 PM
bean is solid, but snarfee got a bajillion yards on offense and even caused 3 fumbles on defense when he got bored waiting on the sidelines. he's like barry, jim brown, earl, walter, jerry rice, and lawrence taylor all rolled into one. after winning the hightower award (they did away with the heisman because this guy's too good for it!), he's deffinately the coolest guy EVER!

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 12:31 PM
bean is solid, but snarfee got a bajillion yards on offense and even caused 3 fumbles on defense when he got bored waiting on the sidelines. he's like barry, jim brown, earl, walter, jerry rice, and lawrence taylor all rolled into one. after winning the hightower award (they did away with the heisman because this guy's too good for it!), he's deffinately the coolest guy EVER!

The cool factor maybe the most under rated variable for a prospect, probably because it is the hardest to measure. Good insightful post as usual.

Runner
01-06-2006, 12:41 PM
The cool factor maybe the most under rated variable for a prospect, probably because it is the hardest to measure. Good insightful post as usual.

The cool factor settles it. We have to pick Ferguson. What is cooler than an offensive lineman named D'Brickashaw? :confused:

dtran04
01-06-2006, 01:26 PM
Corbin Williams and Marzuez Bean are much better players than Snarfee and fill our needs for building an elite franchise.

Yeah......NFL scouts keep saying that they are "once in a lifetime" talents. But for some reason, I somehow keep hearing that? How many lifetimes are there? :)

Texans86
01-06-2006, 01:30 PM
Snarfee McGee sounds like the player we need. I'm on that bandwagon now.

TheOgre
01-06-2006, 02:03 PM
My personal preference would be to trade down and take Ferguson. However, I think taking Bush or taking Young/Lineart (and trading Carr) would help this team too. Having the #1 pick in this draft has so much value, that this team WILL get better almost no matter which one of these paths we take.

swtbound07
01-06-2006, 04:15 PM
did i accidentally start a snarfee mcgee fanclub??? good lord...this is what happens when i drink and watch old thundercats episodes...SNARF!

Kaiser Toro
01-06-2006, 04:16 PM
It has been a veritable Snarf-a-rama around here. Please pass the milk.

swtbound07
01-07-2006, 02:31 AM
snack attack mo-fos! sorry...i dont know what came over me