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Boylanca
01-05-2006, 06:48 PM
heres a perspective from a colts fan:

TRADE their first pick. Carr is OK, just they have about as good of an offensive line looks like this :homer: :homer: :homer: :homer: .

Trade their pick to SF, so bush stays out of the AFC (which is why it makes more sence than trading it to NYJ) and then they get SFs 7th overall pick and 1st rd pick next year. They take Eric Winston stud OT out of Miami, to sure up the Oline, and then they get two first round picks next yr. Fits PERFECTLY. with bush gone one, Leinart will go two to the saints, so he stays out of the AFC too, and then Young probably becomes a titan. Him or D'brickashaw.

Goldeagle
01-05-2006, 06:58 PM
If they give us theri first this and next year.

Carr is okay, and we need help on the O-line but is he shell shockedm is he damaged goods?


If you think so, take VY for his atheltic ability and get a OG or a OT in the 2nd

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 07:00 PM
Carr is not the problem its your OLINE. Get a stud tackle by trading out of the first round. I know you all are Texas fans so its hard to not convince you of Young, but a Probowl tackle is more bennificial to you guys than a pro bowl QB, because Carr can be a probowl QB, you havent given him the chance.

Coach C.
01-05-2006, 07:07 PM
I wonder why is it educated fans like Colts who are experiencing great success like Winston. He is a monster aint he. I have been trying to pump him up on this board, but most people have either Bush, Young, or D'Brick on the brain. Eventhough if Mario Williams gets to the combine at 290 and runs 4.5 low 4.6s he might become my new favorite. Also, we trade down we need to get SF's 1st and 2nd this year and 1st and 3rd next year. I would even send them players to further their roster since they have some depth issues

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 07:11 PM
Yes Winston is a monster. I REALLY dont think you guys should take Leinart, Young or Bush, just b/c you have fine guys there already. You could take D'brick with the first pick, or trade down to get a guy like winston and another first round pick - A much better option.

awtysst
01-05-2006, 07:12 PM
I wonder why is it educated fans like Colts who are experiencing great success like Winston. He is a monster aint he. I have been trying to pump him up on this board, but most people have either Bush, Young, or D'Brick on the brain. Eventhough if Mario Williams gets to the combine at 290 and runs 4.5 low 4.6s he might become my new favorite. Also, we trade down we need to get SF's 1st and 2nd this year and 1st and 3rd next year. I would even send them players to further their roster since they have some depth issues


From what I have read about Winston he is projected as a Right Tackle. This is fine but typically you dont want to take a right tackle high as they are usually available later on. Dbrick is projected as a Lt tackle and thus in a typical offense would be considered the higher pick. However, think about this, Leinart is a lefty so in his new offense the right tackle is the one protecting the QB blindspot. Something to think about.

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 07:14 PM
hmm i havent heard that about winston, i believe he will play LT. Heres what i have you guys at in my mock:

Rd 1 Pick 7
Houston (from SF)
Eric Winston, OT, Miami
Houston does a great job getting still a high pick this draft, and two first rounders next year, when Bush nor Lienart was needed in their system. What they need is Winston. Winston is the first OT taken in almost any draft, except for this one with unprecidented talent at OT. Wiston has great size and agility and should bring some reasurrance to the worst Oline in the last ten years. Who knows, Davis is already a good RB without a line, with a top LT to run behind, he might really emerge next year as a top notch back, and just as good as bush could ever be. And yes, finally Carr will have more than 1.5 seconds to throw.

real
01-05-2006, 07:18 PM
Carr is not the problem its your OLINE. Get a stud tackle by trading out of the first round. I know you all are Texas fans so its hard to not convince you of Young, but a Probowl tackle is more bennificial to you guys than a pro bowl QB, because Carr can be a probowl QB, you havent given him the chance.
Who is Carr ever going to beat out for a pro bowl slot?

Coach C.
01-05-2006, 07:21 PM
Winston is projected as a LT. He has been the question that has been raised is if he is not back from his injury fully then he will have to play RT or even LG which he is adept at playing. In many scouts eyes if Winston is 100% he is considered the best tackle in the draft. He is the one tackle that has everything and plays with that much needed mean streak. Boylanca you know what I mean you have TArik Glenn that cat is just nasty.

Texans_Chick
01-05-2006, 07:21 PM
heres a perspective from a colts fan:

TRADE their first pick. Carr is OK, just they have about as good of an offensive line looks like this :homer: :homer: :homer: :homer: .

Trade their pick to SF, so bush stays out of the AFC (which is why it makes more sence than trading it to NYJ) and then they get SFs 7th overall pick and 1st rd pick next year. They take Eric Winston stud OT out of Miami, to sure up the Oline, and then they get two first round picks next yr. Fits PERFECTLY. with bush gone one, Leinart will go two to the saints, so he stays out of the AFC too, and then Young probably becomes a titan. Him or D'brickashaw.

No way. No way. Texans management would be run outta town on a rail. Tar and feathers wouldn't be enough.

If Young becomes a Titanhick, it will be an affront to all that is good and pure in this world.

"Wooooo, be excited about the Texans in 2006. We got a rookie Olineman who needs to learn on the job. Woooooo."

Even if the case could be made that this should happen, the fans would have a fit. The good news is that I could prolly get a good deal on the PSLs I've been eyeing.

Coach C.
01-05-2006, 07:22 PM
Who is Carr ever going to beat out for a pro bowl slot?

It was Manning, Palmer, and Brady with Plummer as one of the alternates. I can see Carr beating out Palmer or Brady if he has a good year.

Honoring Earl 34
01-05-2006, 07:28 PM
:redtowel: Well you just made Carr's day . Manning , Palmer , Brady , Plummer and Carr .

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 07:31 PM
NO, they would not be run out of town. You guys have a top 8 back in Double - D. A first overall pck in Carr you cannot just give up on him. Trade down, get Winston, and have a solid foundation for 15 years for OLine.

AS a colts fan, you guys dont know what its like to have a top LT like Tarik Glenn. Manning is the least sacked QB in the NFL. Dont you think that helps make him the guy he is? And James has a solid hole to run through Time after Time.

Trade down, take Winston. Davis becomes a top 5 back, Carr a top 15QB. Now with Winston you will have a solid Running game and few sacks for 15 more years atleast from RE, and RT(defensive). Then, next year, you will have an early pick(your own pick) and another early pick(SF's pick). You take a QB if Carr hasnt progressed. Who knows, Vince hasnt declared, that could be him, or if not, a top notch QB if carr hasnt gotten better. If he has, you can use one pick on a stud DE, and a CB. You guys dont know what its like to have a presence like Freeney every defensive down. You take Young, you gain a little at QB, will still have a god-awful Oline, that isnt going to get better, and young accustomed to TONS of time in college will have NO time and not succeed.

real
01-05-2006, 07:46 PM
It was Manning, Palmer, and Brady with Plummer as one of the alternates. I can see Carr beating out Palmer or Brady if he has a good year.
You are acting like Carr is fifth best...There are more than four quaterbacks better than Carr....Maybe if it were only those four, then he might have a shot in hell to beat ONE of them out ONE year....

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 08:07 PM
Once again, noone knows Carr's potential because he has never had more than what 2 seconds to throw.

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 08:09 PM
+ if you guys took young, you would be another step behind with a rookie QB.

real
01-05-2006, 08:11 PM
Another step behind what? 2 wins? How many steps back from that can we take?

real
01-05-2006, 08:13 PM
And you are right No One knows Carr's potential...The same can be said about every player everywhere...So what...We've seen what we've seen and he hasn't gotten the job done thus far so exscuse "us guys" for entertaining the thought of change...

clutchcityin210
01-05-2006, 08:13 PM
What I would do is trade Carr and Davis to the Saints for their first pick this year and their third pick. Then Id draft VY and Bush 1 and 2. We get a fresh start and the Saints get a solid franchise QB and a hometown RB to build around. With the 3rd pick Id take a LT since the Raiders have our 3rd pick this year. Our second too I believe due to that Phillip Buchannan fiasco.

real
01-05-2006, 08:15 PM
What I would do is trade Carr and Davis to the Saints for their first pick this year and their third pick. Then Id draft VY and Bush 1 and 2. We get a fresh start and the Saints get a solid franchise QB and a hometown RB to build around. With the 3rd pick Id take a LT since the Raiders have our 3rd pick this year. Our second too I believe due to that Phillip Buchannan fiasco.
Huh ???

Coach C.
01-05-2006, 08:32 PM
xtru what I am saying is Carr in a different system and with protection has proven he can put up numbers he has done it before. Last year over 3500 yards and 300 rushing. He puts up these numbers on a winning team with a 2 to 1 TD ration and you have a probowler. This is the thing last year he was allowed to throw the ball deep more and he had a better year. Next year with Kubiak, Linehan or whomever comes in I guarantee they wont be throwing 1-2 yard hitch routes. We have a franchise guy that took the next step in year 3, it just so happend that in year 4 it came crumbling down. Who would have thought other than most on this board when they started getting rid of leaders in favor of underachievers and small fast guys.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 08:37 PM
I think people some people forgot that he had 3500 yards passing and 300 yards rushing.

He also was second in the league for quarterback rushing behind Vick.

What a terrible quarterback

Coach C.
01-05-2006, 08:43 PM
Technically he is the 11th best QB in the AFC and the 20th in the league. Now I will be the first to point out and have that he needs to step his game up, becaue we expect more from a number 1 pick. I am not one of those people talking potential though. He has weapons and he could get in the O-Lines ear when they screw up Manning does. He could be vocal, but he is not and hopefully he learns that, but what he has shown is that when he has the opportunity to make a play he can make it. He showed it last year and he showed it this year. Next year in a new system he will show it. The kid can play that is that. Now if you want VY that is fine and Carr can go somewhere like Oakland and have a great career there and we will have a great show like Atlanta, but dont shortchange Carr because he has been one of the brightest young qbs in the league, shortchange him because he has not been given or better yet taken the spotlight he should have.

real
01-05-2006, 08:50 PM
I understand what you are saying, but D.Carr has been a question for me since day one...I don't ever see him being a pro bowler... unless he's a heck of a kicker or something... Now having said that, I don't think you need a pro bowl qb to win...DC just needs to learn how to play his role, because thats all I think he is capable of doing...I don't think he'll ever be a superstar

Johnny Utah
01-05-2006, 08:57 PM
I'm down with taking Eric Winston.....


in the 2nd round.

Afrokid
01-05-2006, 09:28 PM
why not trade down to get D brick?

Boylanca
01-05-2006, 10:49 PM
What I would do is trade Carr and Davis to the Saints for their first pick this year and their third pick.


LMAO, thats a joke. First of all why would they take Carr over Leinart who they can get if they dont make the trade, and double d is no upgrade over McCallister. That will NEVER happen

2nd. Eric Winston is a top 10 pick. Its also a joke to think that he will go second round.

3rd. Houston fans have a right to be frustrated with Carr, but there have been many QBs in history who have stunk, then gone to another team and been very good. Getting an Oline would be like putting Carr on a different team. You guys have never given him a chance. And what makes you think vince can handle 1.5 seconds better than carr can.?

Johnny Utah
01-05-2006, 11:00 PM
2nd. Eric Winston is a top 10 pick. Its also a joke to think that he will go second round.



Going at Pick 32
http://insider.espn.go.com/nfl/draft06/insider/columns/story?id=2279106&CMP=ILC-INHEAD
1. Houston Texans (2-14): +Reggie Bush, RB, USC
2. New Orleans Saints (3-13): Matt Leinart, QB, USC
3. Tennessee Titans (4-12): D'Brickashaw Ferguson, OT, Virginia
4. New York Jets (4-12): +Vince Young, QB, Texas
5. Green Bay Packers (4-12): A.J. Hawk, OLB, Ohio State
6. x-Oakland Raiders (4-12): Demeco Ryans, OLB, Alabama
7. x-San Francisco 49ers (4-12): Jimmy Williams, DC, Virginia Tech
8. Buffalo Bills (5-11): +Haloti Ngata, NT, Oregon
9. Detroit Lions (5-11): Jay Cutler, QB, Vanderbilt
10. Arizona Cardinals (5-11): +Mario Williams, DE, N.C. State
11. St. Louis Rams (6-10): +Vernon Davis, TE, Maryland
12. Cleveland Browns (6-10): Mathias Kiwanuka, DE, Boston College
13. Baltimore Ravens (6-10): DeAngelo Williams, RB, Memphis
14. Philadelphia Eagles (6-10): +Santonio Holmes, WR, Ohio State
15. Atlanta Falcons (8-8): Chad Greenway, OLB, Iowa
16. Miami Dolphins (9-7): Michael Huff, DB, Texas
17. Minnesota Vikings (9-7): +Laurence Maroney, RB, Minnesota
18. Dallas Cowboys (9-7): Derek Hagan, WR, Arizona State
19. San Diego Chargers (9-7): Marcus McNeill, OT, Auburn
20. Kansas City Chiefs (10-6): Orien Harris, DT, Miami-Fla.
21. *-New England Patriots (10-6): Paul Posluszny, OLB, Penn State
22. *-Denver Broncos (10-6): Tamba Hali, DE, Penn State
Pick acquired from Washington Redskins
23. *-Carolina Panthers (11-5): Claude Wroten, DT, LSU
24. *-Tampa Bay Buccaneers (11-5): +Gaines Adams, DE, Clemson
25. *-Chicago Bears (11-5): Marcedes Lewis, TE, UCLA
26. *-Cincinnati Bengals (11-5): Brodrick Bunkley, DT, Florida State
27. *-New York Giants (11-5): Sinorice Moss, WR, Miami-Fla.
28. *-Pittsburgh Steelers (11-5): +LenDale White, RB, USC
29. *-Jacksonville Jaguars (12-4): Elvis Dumervil, DE, Louisville
30. *-Seattle Seahawks (13-3): Thomas Howard, OLB, UTEP
31. *-Denver Broncos (13-3): +Leonard Pope, TE, Georgia
32. *-Indianapolis Colts (14-2): Eric Winston, OT, Miami-Fla.

Going at Pick 23
http://www.nfldraftcountdown.com/sub/mockdraft.html

Going at Pick 19
http://www.gbnreport.com/2006projection.html

Pick 18
http://www.draftshowcase.com/swmock06.htm

Mel Kiper doesn't even have him listed on his Big Board anymore.
http://espn.go.com/melkiper/

Honoring Earl 34
01-05-2006, 11:02 PM
:brickwall Carr's had chances and was given exemption for 3 years . Carr's not a leader and he does dumb things .

If you believe the smoke and fire thing about rumors then his work ethic and just being one of the guys gets brought into the equation .

Carr's has the talent to be a good QB but I'm not sure he has his mojo .

jjcorvallis
01-05-2006, 11:25 PM
What I would do is trade Carr and Davis to the Saints for their first pick this year and their third pick. Then Id draft VY and Bush 1 and 2. We get a fresh start and the Saints get a solid franchise QB and a hometown RB to build around. With the 3rd pick Id take a LT since the Raiders have our 3rd pick this year. Our second too I believe due to that Phillip Buchannan fiasco.
Huh????

AUSTexan
01-05-2006, 11:51 PM
Winston has dropped because he's looked terrible the last 3 games in pass protection... I have scouted him the last 3 games and he's had balance difficulties against speed rushes and spin/double moves. Don't get me wrong, he's still a solid prospect, but not top 5/10.

People who do not follow the Texans closely do not understand the true situation with their OL...

Left Tackle is now perhaps their most consistent position. They need 1 guard, 1 center, and 1 RT (unless Wade rebounds significantly, or Wand steps up).

AUSTexan
01-05-2006, 11:53 PM
This is along the same misconception that the Texans line is a bad run-blocking line. They are above average at run blocking... Terrible pass blocking, but above average on the run. These are very different skills.

Janus3
01-06-2006, 07:48 AM
No way. No way. Texans management would be run outta town on a rail. Tar and feathers wouldn't be enough.

If Young becomes a Titanhick, it will be an affront to all that is good and pure in this world.

"Wooooo, be excited about the Texans in 2006. We got a rookie Olineman who needs to learn on the job. Woooooo."

Even if the case could be made that this should happen, the fans would have a fit. The good news is that I could prolly get a good deal on the PSLs I've been eyeing.

yes cuz the fans complaining has such an impact on their decision making, wtfever.

Grid
01-06-2006, 07:52 AM
AusTexan.. I agree.. except I would say that Center is less a need and more a "get someone to be safe" kinda thing.

Hodgdon looked good in there when he DID play.. we need someone to start ahead of him, or provide depth.. one of the two.. but we dont have a gaping hole there since he may be able to start for us next season.

Boylanca
01-06-2006, 01:18 PM
coming from someone who knows first round picks as a colts fan, what if bush/Young is a bust. Then you guys are screwed for 3+ more years because youve built your team around them.

Here is my solution. Trade down with the Jets, and take D'brickashaw, d'brick has no questions around him.

Or, Trade down, and Take Jonathan Scott. A TEXAS PLAYER!. And you know how another Jonathan LT went in the NFL with Balt.(Ogden)

The worst move would be to take Young or bush.

Bush would be no better than DD, or slightly better, and would be a waste of a first pick. If you traded down, got Dbrick you would get the jets first round pick next year too. Then you could get a QB if Carr hasnt gotten better.

If you take young, youre giving up on all the money youve put into carr and taking a step way back. Plus, there is no time for Carr to throw, so put a rookie back there with no time to throw... youd be ruining vince young.