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HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 11:17 AM
I knew there would be some insanity on here this morning but nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game. I have seen both Vince and Bush all year and both are phenomenal players. Both have single handedly taken over games this year. Vince last night, Okl, St., Michigan and Bush in UCLA, FResno St. Az St., etc. Bush barely touched the ball last night and still had a pretty good game. Quiet by his standards but average wise and for the number of touches, not bad. I saw him knock guys on their tail when people blitzed and he when he did get a shot in the open field he was great.

I don't get the idea of trading in order to get O-lineman. The New England Patriots dynasty has one second rounder and the rest are below the 2nd, free agents and waiver wire guys. The Denver Broncos has ONE 1st rounder with the 20th pick, a free agent, two 4ths and a 7th..ahem. The Redskins have one 1st rounder, a second, two 3rds and an 8th. Two of them Free Agents, including a 20 year guy. There is zero reasons for getting a first round lineman with this high a pick if you have people who can find these guys. Also we have 4 of the first 66 picks and 7 other picks which are high in their round. If Charlie actually does his job, that is alot of picks along with a top skill guy. There is no guarantee that he is any more of a bust than any lineman will be the next Mandarich. Why is skill guy anymore of a bust than a high round lineman?

Do I think Vince can be a stud?Sure. He is a winner, first and foremost. But I have yet to see a scrambling guy like him succeed in a league where LBs also run 4.3s and guys get injured yearly. The draft is a crapshoot and guys like Terrell Davis, who are picked in the 7th round, end up being studs and guys like KiJana go down with injuries. I just don't get the daily bandwagon around here.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 11:38 AM
Sorry, bump

bdiddy
01-05-2006, 11:39 AM
What LB do you know that runs a 4.3? Derrick Johnson is one of the fastest LBs in the NFL and runs a 4.52.

Texans Horror
01-05-2006, 11:43 AM
I knew there would be some insanity on here this morning but nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game. I have seen both Vince and Bush all year and both are phenomenal players. Both have single handedly taken over games this year. Vince last night, Okl, St., Michigan and Bush in UCLA, FResno St. Az St., etc. Bush barely touched the ball last night and still had a pretty good game. Quiet by his standards but average wise and for the number of touches, not bad. I saw him knock guys on their tail when people blitzed and he when he did get a shot in the open field he was great.

I don't get the idea of trading in order to get O-lineman. The New England Patriots dynasty has one second rounder and the rest are below the 2nd, free agents and waiver wire guys. The Denver Broncos has ONE 1st rounder with the 20th pick, a free agent, two 4ths and a 7th..ahem. The Redskins have one 1st rounder, a second, two 3rds and an 8th. Two of them Free Agents, including a 20 year guy. There is zero reasons for getting a first round lineman with this high a pick if you have people who can find these guys. Also we have 4 of the first 66 picks and 7 other picks which are high in their round. If Charlie actually does his job, that is alot of picks along with a top skill guy. There is no guarantee that he is any more of a bust than any lineman will be the next Mandarich. Why is skill guy anymore of a bust than a high round lineman?

Do I think Vince can be a stud?Sure. He is a winner, first and foremost. But I have yet to see a scrambling guy like him succeed in a league where LBs also run 4.3s and guys get injured yearly. The draft is a crapshoot and guys like Terrell Davis, who are picked in the 7th round, end up being studs and guys like KiJana go down with injuries. I just don't get the daily bandwagon around here.

It's always like that. One day it's Ferguson, the next day it's another tackle. It just goes with the boards. I contend though that replacing a DD with a Reggie Bush makes as much sense as replacing Carr with Young. I think we can trade and make some real changes, but I also understand that maybe Coaching can fix most of the holes, so why not go for it all?

Vince Young's performance is like a stick in a hornet's nest - and we're not calming down until we get a new coach.

Vinny
01-05-2006, 11:46 AM
I knew there would be some insanity on here this morning but nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game. I think most of the guys think close to what they did before the game...but 1,730 anonymous active members will have some bi-polar looking thoughts coming out since we all don't think alike. It's not unusual for the forum to host radically diverse opinion...and yeah, we are all fans....Most of the guys here are really not a fair weather anything.

texan279
01-05-2006, 11:48 AM
I knew there would be some insanity on here this morning but nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game. I have seen both Vince and Bush all year and both are phenomenal players. Both have single handedly taken over games this year. Vince last night, Okl, St., Michigan and Bush in UCLA, FResno St. Az St., etc. Bush barely touched the ball last night and still had a pretty good game. Quiet by his standards but average wise and for the number of touches, not bad. I saw him knock guys on their tail when people blitzed and he when he did get a shot in the open field he was great.

I don't get the idea of trading in order to get O-lineman. The New England Patriots dynasty has one second rounder and the rest are below the 2nd, free agents and waiver wire guys. The Denver Broncos has ONE 1st rounder with the 20th pick, a free agent, two 4ths and a 7th..ahem. The Redskins have one 1st rounder, a second, two 3rds and an 8th. Two of them Free Agents, including a 20 year guy. There is zero reasons for getting a first round lineman with this high a pick if you have people who can find these guys. Also we have 4 of the first 66 picks and 7 other picks which are high in their round. If Charlie actually does his job, that is alot of picks along with a top skill guy. There is no guarantee that he is any more of a bust than any lineman will be the next Mandarich. Why is skill guy anymore of a bust than a high round lineman?

Do I think Vince can be a stud?Sure. He is a winner, first and foremost. But I have yet to see a scrambling guy like him succeed in a league where LBs also run 4.3s and guys get injured yearly. The draft is a crapshoot and guys like Terrell Davis, who are picked in the 7th round, end up being studs and guys like KiJana go down with injuries. I just don't get the daily bandwagon around here.

Fact is Vince Young practically beat USC, who was on a 34 game winning streak, single handedly. Bush has been overhyped all season and was exposed against a real defense. Who cares if he barely touched the ball, when he did run the ball he didn't do much with it. Sure, he got yards returning kicks and in the passing game, but I would rather not have the Texans use the #1 overall pick on a kick returner/#2 WR. And FYI, I have been anti-Bush since all his hype started, and still am, now I am just pro-Vince

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 11:48 AM
It's always like that. One day it's Ferguson, the next day it's another tackle. It just goes with the boards. I contend though that replacing a DD with a Reggie Bush makes as much sense as replacing Carr with Young. I think we can trade and make some real changes, but I also understand that maybe Coaching can fix most of the holes, so why not go for it all?

Vince Young's performance is like a stick in a hornet's nest - and we're not calming down until we get a new coach.

I agree with you on some of this. Most of my points can be cleared up with a good coach and GM who can bring in the right supporting cast and who can draft middle round guys that will play for you in the line.

As for the LBs that run 4.3s. Boss Bailey of georgia could when he got drafted. A guys from the Seahawks could. It was more a point that even if the guys run between a 4.4-4.6, the game in the NFL is much faster.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 11:53 AM
Fact is Vince Young practically beat USC, who was on a 34 game winning streak, single handedly. Bush has been overhyped all season and was exposed against a real defense. Who cares if he barely touched the ball, when he did run the ball he didn't do much with it. Sure, he got yards returning kicks and in the passing game, but I would rather not have the Texans use the #1 overall pick on a kick returner/#2 WR. And FYI, I have been anti-Bush since all his hype started, and still am, now I am just pro-Vince

That is great and Vince may be the best player ever but right now there has never been a QB like him to take off in the NFL. Vick has shown that injuries with bigger and faster NFL guys happen and that the speed can only get you so far. He is a winner but I'm not sure if his style translates here. How was Bush overhyped all season?Against ND he had 15 carries for 160 yards. This included 3 catches for 43 yards. This against a pro coach that game plans for these guys. Fresno St. 23 carries for 294 yards. UCLA, 24 carries for 260 yards. How is that overhyped..lol

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 01:21 PM
I forgot to put this but does anyone else realize that when a teams game plan on D keys on a player then another guy can step up?Texas was all over Bush and it gave Leinart all day to throw with play action. That helps the line a ton!!

Texans86
01-05-2006, 01:36 PM
That is great and Vince may be the best player ever but right now there has never been a QB like him to taek off in the NFL. Vick has shown that injuries with bigger and faster NFL guys happen and that the speed can only get you so far. He is a winner but I'm not sure if his style translates here. How was Bush overhyped all season?Against ND he had 15 carries for 160 yards. This included 3 catches for 43 yards. This against a pro coach that game plans for these guys. Fresno St. 23 carries for 294 yards. UCLA, 24 carries for 260 yards. How is that overhyped..lol

That "pro coach" was an offensive coordinator. He didn't do much game plannign for Bush, he left that to his defensive coordinator. Now if USC was playing the Cleveland Browns, then I might get your point.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 01:39 PM
That "pro coach" was an offensive coordinator. He didn't do much game plannign for Bush, he left that to his defensive coordinator. Now if USC was playing the Cleveland Browns, then I might get your point.

That makes no sense at all. Charlie Weiss was still a coach in the NFL and one of his strengths was game planning. It doesn't matter that he only coaches O, he still has to get together with his other coaches and devise a game plan. You basically skipped any of the points about his yardage in big games adn just went for a cheap shot. Weak.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:40 PM
ive explained my stance on it 100 times. my support for the Bush pick was tentative before the game.

btw.. argueing and changing your mind about who the Texans should draft.. does not have any bearing on whether you are a Texans fan or not. Everyone wants the best value for the pick.. claiming that someone isnt a real Texan fan because they dont want Bush.. is pretty freakin stupid. Bush isnt on this team yet... dont forget that.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 01:43 PM
ive explained my stance on it 100 times. my support for the Bush pick was tentative before the game.

btw.. argueing and changing your mind about who the Texans should draft.. does not have any bearing on whether you are a Texans fan or not. Everyone wants the best value for the pick.. claiming that someone isnt a real Texan fan because they dont want Bush.. is pretty freakin stupid. Bush isnt on this team yet... dont forget that.

Never said that not supporting Bush makes you a bad Texan fan. It was never mentioned anywhere. But in one day, after one game, the board went haywire with Vince mania and people screaming that they would never cheer for the texans if they picked Bush. That is bush league.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:45 PM
I knew there would be some insanity on here this morning but nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?


very few people said that they wouldnt support Bush.

awtysst
01-05-2006, 01:46 PM
Never said that not supporting Bush makes you a bad Texan fan. It was never mentioned anywhere. But in one day, after one game, the board went haywire with Vince mania and people screaming that they would never cheer for the texans if they picked Bush. That is bush league.

HA HA HA HA. Nice pun!

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 02:04 PM
very few people said that they wouldnt support Bush.

Where is Bush mentioned?I NEVER said that. It was in regards to people saying that they would not be fans if they picked him OR didn't pick Vince or ones that called either overrated, etc AFTER one game. There were no stipulations.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 02:04 PM
This is all a moot point because Casserly has said today that they are happy with David Carr, they will extend his contract, they will not draft a quarter back, and that they are going to draft an offensive playmaker.

He can't say specific names yet because Bush hasn't declared but you can connect the dots.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 02:04 PM
I think this statement was meant to demonstrate the fact that Vince's speed will be a lot less in comparison to his NFL peers. No LB that I know of runs a 4.3, but I do know that Mike Vick is a hell of a lot faster than Vince Young, and yet he remains a gimmick QB, a bad passer on a team that isn't going to the playoffs, and I do not see Vince Young being much different.

Some say the kid has more heart than Vick and will work harder. Possible, sure, but all I saw last night was Vince tooting his own horn and talking about what an injustice it was that he didn't win the Heisman.

It's not to say that he can't be better than Vick, but I don't see it happening, and until I am convinced that he will dramatically improve the weaknesses in his game, I don't want a one-trick mobile QB with a noodle arm on my team.

Maybe Vince will surprise me, hell, it is not like I cannot be wrong. But I agree with this post and have said the same in replies to other threads, it is ridiculous how quickly people will get all over his jock over this game. We'll see if his game translates to the NFL, but I am not convinced that it will.

More importantly, for the Texans, I would take Reggie Bush over Young in a heartbeat, and I have been as far removed from the Reggie bandwagon as it gets all along now.

Time will tell, should make for an interesting albeit very monotonous offseason on this MB.

Could not have said it better and that was my point.

tsip
01-05-2006, 02:40 PM
...only 9 posts in this 1 thread

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 02:45 PM
...only 9 posts in this 1 thread

So I'm not allowed to respond or put more facts?HMM, thanks board dictator. You really added alot to the discussion. Are you the post police?

Runner
01-05-2006, 03:01 PM
btw.. argueing and changing your mind about who the Texans should draft.. does not have any bearing on whether you are a Texans fan or not.

Of course it has no bearing.

However, if you do a dramatic flip because of one game you should be precluded from condemning Casserly for his "P-Buc Analysis" or risk being identified as a complete hypocrite.

This does make me consider something else though. I don't think most of us watch a wide spectrum of college teams repeatedly. Besides our favorite team or local teams, it is hard to keep up with the multitude of football games out there. This leads to us seeing some of these "blue chip" college players twice, once, or even zero times in a season. I don't mean players like Young and Bush as much as I mean those like the the top offensive tackles, linebackers, etc. Regardless of our lack of "viewing" depth, we do have very strong emotions on who we think the Texans should pick.

Food for thought.

tsip
01-05-2006, 04:00 PM
So I'm not allowed to respond or put more facts?HMM, thanks board dictator. You really added alot to the discussion. Are you the post police?


"...not allowed to respond..." You started this thread by questioning if certain posters were true fans, an indication that posters should only post what you think is 'politically correct.' So, using your own statement/thought, aren't all posters allowed to speak their opinion(s)?

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 04:55 PM
"...not allowed to respond..." You started this thread by questioning if certain posters were true fans, an indication that posters should only post what you think is 'politically correct.' So, using your own statement/thought, aren't all posters allowed to speak their opinion(s)?

You are off on your reading skills too. It wasn't an indication that people can't post anything that I don't find p.c. In fact there is nothing in there that is even close to that. I didn't attack anyone personally or make comments directly too one poster. However, you playing post police reeks of a personal attack and of someone that had a nerve hit. It was my assertion that people are a little too wishy washy over one game and their fandom. Move on.

tsip
01-05-2006, 05:46 PM
"nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game."

No, you did not name one person--you named a whole 'class' of people. You wrote it, so just stand by it--too late to back track now...and,note, I have not had to resort to any personal attack on you so I'm wondering why you are so sensitive...moving on.

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 05:51 PM
"nothing like this homer filled, fair weathered bunch of posts. How are some of you even considered Texan fans?It is like you change your position on all issues overnight and make snap judgements on guys after one game."

No, you did not name one person--you named a whole 'class' of people. You wrote it, so just stand by it--too late to back track now...and,note, I have not had to resort to any personal attack on you so I'm wondering why you are so sensitive...moving on.

Exactly so why state something so inane as saying that I was telling people what to post?Stick with it. It was my opinion and if you didn't like it then don't come into a thread and count posts like some sort of stalker. It added nothing to the discussion. Obviously it hit a nerve with you. I'll look out for your wishy-washyness chief:ok:

Overalls
01-05-2006, 07:58 PM
ive explained my stance on it 100 times. my support for the Bush pick was tentative before the game.

btw.. argueing and changing your mind about who the Texans should draft.. does not have any bearing on whether you are a Texans fan or not. Everyone wants the best value for the pick.. claiming that someone isnt a real Texan fan because they dont want Bush.. is pretty freakin stupid. Bush isnt on this team yet... dont forget that.


What Grid said. I'm already tired of the Bush/Young hype already, but we all have opinions. Just because mine is not yours does not make me any smarter or dumber than you.

Erratic Assassin
01-05-2006, 08:48 PM
Fact is Vince Young practically beat USC, who was on a 34 game winning streak, single handedly.

The Longhorn defense had Matt Leinart visibly frustrated.

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:54 PM
The Longhorn defense had Matt Leinart visibly frustrated.

I know what you mean, but I still think this is funny because his offense scored 36 points, lol. I guess college football just isn't like the NFL.

Seņor Stan
01-05-2006, 08:55 PM
I forgot to put this but does anyone else realize that when a teams game plan on D keys on a player then another guy can step up?Texas was all over Bush and it gave Leinart all day to throw with play action. That helps the line a ton!!

This is exactly what Bush can bring to the table that I don't think DD can. Right now teams drop into cover 2 and dare the Texans to run. I think teams will have to gameplan for Bush and it will give AJ, Mathis, and Carr more of a chance to succeed.

I envision DD/Morency/Wells serving in the LenDale White role.

LongBignasty1
01-05-2006, 09:11 PM
At least you didn't say Hollings should be kept! Bad pick up CASS!

HJam72
01-05-2006, 09:11 PM
This is exactly what Bush can bring to the table that I don't think DD can. Right now teams drop into cover 2 and dare the Texans to run. I think teams will have to gameplan for Bush and it will give AJ, Mathis, and Carr more of a chance to succeed.

I envision DD/Morency/Wells serving in the LenDale White role.

In the cover 2, the corners come up. They'll be waiting for the RB if he heads for the sideline. If Bush can kick butt up the middle, then I will agree. What we need is another one of those Campbell guys.

Mr. B
01-05-2006, 11:11 PM
Hey don't I recall all you folks Humpin on the Bensen fella from Texas last year as being the next coming of Walter Payton to run over everyone in the NFL, HMMMMM seems to me he sanded the pine most of the season while some Backup running backs in the mold of DD (Backup which is where you all want to put him after the solid seasons he's given) thrived in the NFL.
or was it that Hollings fella a couple years ago that was supposed to be the speedster from hell who would turn the outside corner for us and leave the rest of the D in dust. Seems to me every time he turns the corner when he can stay on the field there seems to big a big friggin frieght train of a LB or safety with one big hit on his mind waiting on him.

Very few backs do it year in and out in the NFL and they need to have a line to do it behind and the threat of the passing game to keep D's somewhat honest.

Both Bush and Young will do fine if they don't get all broken up but you can bet the big boys are takin money on who will try to crack their skulls come next season.


B

Tulip
01-05-2006, 11:34 PM
I've wanted Vince all year. I just didn't have this 90% confidence that he'd enter the draft early until last night. And I didn't think the Texans would be interested in him.

If we draft Bush, I will be disappointed to lose Vince, but I won't feel like Bush is a mistake.