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Grid
01-05-2006, 01:07 AM
At least for me it does.

Reggie Bush:

He choked. I know alot of people will say he had a solid game.. but a solid game just wont cut it. We are taking him #1 overall despite the fact that we dont really NEED him, because he is supposed to be an incredible prospect.. and here he is with his chance to show his stuff against the closest thing he is gonna see to an NFL defense before he is drafted.. and he looked "eh".

You can cite his numbers if you want.. and his yards per carry.. but its just not enough. Why doesnt he cut back? He just keeps running for that sideline.. trying to get around the corner and make the big run.. but as you saw, when he was up against a defense that actually had the speed to match him, he couldnt get around that corner. If he thinks the Texas defense is fast.. wait till he goes up against indianapolis. Or Atlanta. Or the Bucs.. or really ANY NFL team.

Speaking of speed.. is that what that was? He looked faster than some RBs but he didnt wow me with it. Once he got a straight shot and put on the afterburners..he looked pretty fast.. but that same speed didnt seem to translate into the rest of his running. He isnt gonna get to many straight shots in the NFL, he is going to have to do more than what he did to succeed.

Im just not sold on him anymore. I still think he is a good prospect and worth a high pick.. but the Rose Bowl ruined him for me.. when he went up against real competition, he did NOT look like the superman he is advertised to be. This is bad news for us.

Matt Lienart:

His stock just slipped. His arm strength just isnt gonna cut it at the next level. He is going to need to be in a system that can work with his weak arm. Going up against a defense with a fast secondary, his throws just hung in the air for way to long. he still managed to put up good yardage.. but that had more to do with his drop off passes and quick tosses to the sidelines.

Lendale(sp) White:

He reminds me of DD.. but 15 pounds heavier. I wouldnt mind having HIM as our complimentary back to Davis. I think we may have a better chance of succeeding with him and DD, rather than Bush and DD.

Vince Young:

OMG. If he declared for the draft..he is guaranteed to go in the top 2.. and id give him a 90% chance of going #1 overall. I think if he declared.. we would be foolish not to take him. What a talent.

David Thomas:

if he is available in the 3rd round.. I think we definatly need to consider spending a pick on this guy.



I just dont know what to think anymore. Bush didnt live up to his highlight reel. Players rarely do.. but I barely even saw the flashes of brilliance.. and I saw too many quirks that lead me to beleive he is going to have a hard time taking his skills to the next level.

If he was playing not to get injured.. thinking that he already had the #1 pick locked down... he just made a big mistake. He blew his chance to show that he could do the same thing against good competition that he does to weaker teams.

BTW.. did you notice in the last few minutes of the game.. 3rd and 7.. USC needs a first down to end the game.. who do they give the ball too? White. If Bush is such a huge playmaker.. why wasnt the ball in his hands in that situation?



I might be basing too much of my opinion on one game.. but it was one very important game where we were seeing the two best teams in the nation going head to head in what will be the closest thing to real NFL competition that they have seen. Id say that their performance in this game is more telling than most of the other games they have played. You see who stepped up...and who didnt.

If someone has a good reason to disagree with me on this.. please.. do so.. I would love to go back to thinking that Bush is a great thing for us.

dtran04
01-05-2006, 01:12 AM
It was weird seeing Bush on the sidelines as opposed to on the field anywhere. White had the majority of "important" carries...

bubbajaxonbrown
01-05-2006, 01:13 AM
Grid,

Many times you and I have agreed on controversial issues, but...

this is another time!!!

Young was fabulous. He took over that game. I think Bush had a lot of his highlights against tier 2/3 caliber D-I teams. Young performed all year against the best and I have to admit now that he deserves the Heisman and I would take him #1 and let Carr go either at the end of this season or trade him to NO for the #2 pick since no QB wants to go there. With the #2 we could get Bush or Ferguson. I'm a TTU fan so admitting this is hard for me but Yound was fantastic and I would be more excited to see him hold that Texans jersey up in April than Bush.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-05-2006, 01:15 AM
It was weird seeing Bush on the sidelines as opposed to on the field anywhere. White had the majority of "important" carries...

Bush was nowhere to be seen on the plays that USC NEEDED yards.

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:16 AM
GRID!!!! God, I didn't think YOU would jump on the "um...after watching this one game, Bush isn't as great as anyone says" bandwagon.

I can't believe you people. You are judging him on ONE game!!!! AND you're touting White on one game.

I'm going to lose my lunch...jesus...

Texans86
01-05-2006, 01:16 AM
Does this game hurt our chances at trading the pick away. Will other teams still consider Bush their back of the future. Surely his stock won't drop with professional teams as much as it has with fans on the Board.

houstonhurricane
01-05-2006, 01:18 AM
As I stated in another thread, we are not going to draft a player based on one college game (good or bad). There is way too much due dilligence performed - especially when it comes to number one picks. Let's let the individual workouts, combines, etc. take place and then we will have a better idea how everyone grades out.

However, no way that the Texans are going with Young. It is funny, that everyone screams on this board that we don't need another rb on this team so we should trade off our picks. Then a local guy has a big game and now we need to use that pick on a qb. Come on guys, let's take a deep breath and evaluate this after we have more information...

Texans86
01-05-2006, 01:18 AM
GRID!!!! God, I didn't think YOU would jump on the "um...after watching this one game, Bush isn't as great as anyone says" bandwagon.

I can't believe you people. You are judging him on ONE game!!!! AND you're touting White on one game.

I'm going to lose my lunch...jesus...

Many people have questioned whether Bush is the best back in his own backfield. LenDale was able to show on the national stage how good he is. The way he plays is definately better suited for the NFL. Also, he now has the record for most TD's in NCAA. That's not one game.

eriadoc
01-05-2006, 01:23 AM
GRID!!!! God, I didn't think YOU would jump on the "um...after watching this one game, Bush isn't as great as anyone says" bandwagon.

I can't believe you people. You are judging him on ONE game!!!! AND you're touting White on one game.

I'm going to lose my lunch...jesus...

Actually, White didn't do anything tonight that he hasn't done all year. His three TDs tonight put him at ... what? ... 27 TDs on the season? And they are between-the tackles, in-your-face, shove-it-down-your-throat TD runs. Bush is not going to find the open space in the NFL that he faced against the Pac-10 or the rest of the NCAA, for that matter. He's not going to get the corner against NFL-speed defenses.

Speaking of speed.. is that what that was? He looked faster than some RBs but he didnt wow me with it. Once he got a straight shot and put on the afterburners..he looked pretty fast.. but that same speed didnt seem to translate into the rest of his running. He isnt gonna get to many straight shots in the NFL, he is going to have to do more than what he did to succeed.

I've brought this up before, but of course, no one wanted to see past the Bush hype. So many times this season, someone would argue on these boards that "That long run by DD would have been a TD by Bush!". They conveniently overlook the fact that DD ran between the tackles, made people miss in tight space, and broke tackles to get that run. Put Bush at the end of that run and sure, he gets the TD. I'd argue that he never would have put himself in that situation like DD did. It's a different style. Bush will make a good 3rd-down back and slot receiver guy, but not a full-time tailback.

zeplin
01-05-2006, 01:25 AM
At least for me it does.

Reggie Bush:

He choked. I know alot of people will say he had a solid game.. but a solid game just wont cut it. We are taking him #1 overall despite the fact that we dont really NEED him, because he is supposed to be an incredible prospect.. and here he is with his chance to show his stuff against the closest thing he is gonna see to an NFL defense before he is drafted.. and he looked "eh".

You can cite his numbers if you want.. and his yards per carry.. but its just not enough. Why doesnt he cut back? He just keeps running for that sideline.. trying to get around the corner and make the big run.. but as you saw, when he was up against a defense that actually had the speed to match him, he couldnt get around that corner. If he thinks the Texas defense is fast.. wait till he goes up against indianapolis. Or Atlanta. Or the Bucs.. or really ANY NFL team.

Speaking of speed.. is that what that was? He looked faster than some RBs but he didnt wow me with it. Once he got a straight shot and put on the afterburners..he looked pretty fast.. but that same speed didnt seem to translate into the rest of his running. He isnt gonna get to many straight shots in the NFL, he is going to have to do more than what he did to succeed.

Im just not sold on him anymore. I still think he is a good prospect and worth a high pick.. but the Rose Bowl ruined him for me.. when he went up against real competition, he did NOT look like the superman he is advertised to be. This is bad news for us.

Matt Lienart:

His stock just slipped. His arm strength just isnt gonna cut it at the next level. He is going to need to be in a system that can work with his weak arm. Going up against a defense with a fast secondary, his throws just hung in the air for way to long. he still managed to put up good yardage.. but that had more to do with his drop off passes and quick tosses to the sidelines.

Lendale(sp) White:

He reminds me of DD.. but 15 pounds heavier. I wouldnt mind having HIM as our complimentary back to Davis. I think we may have a better chance of succeeding with him and DD, rather than Bush and DD.

Vince Young:

OMG. If he declared for the draft..he is guaranteed to go in the top 2.. and id give him a 90% chance of going #1 overall. I think if he declared.. we would be foolish not to take him. What a talent.

David Thomas:

if he is available in the 3rd round.. I think we definatly need to consider spending a pick on this guy.



I just dont know what to think anymore. Bush didnt live up to his highlight reel. Players rarely do.. but I barely even saw the flashes of brilliance.. and I saw too many quirks that lead me to beleive he is going to have a hard time taking his skills to the next level.

If he was playing not to get injured.. thinking that he already had the #1 pick locked down... he just made a big mistake. He blew his chance to show that he could do the same thing against good competition that he does to weaker teams.

BTW.. did you notice in the last few minutes of the game.. 3rd and 7.. USC needs a first down to end the game.. who do they give the ball too? White. If Bush is such a huge playmaker.. why wasnt the ball in his hands in that situation?



I might be basing too much of my opinion on one game.. but it was one very important game where we were seeing the two best teams in the nation going head to head in what will be the closest thing to real NFL competition that they have seen. Id say that their performance in this game is more telling than most of the other games they have played. You see who stepped up...and who didnt.

If someone has a good reason to disagree with me on this.. please.. do so.. I would love to go back to thinking that Bush is a great thing for us.


Grid, can I quote you on that? I have disagreed with you about this for a few weeks and I actually felt sorry for the Bush supporters tonight. He was so obviosly over hyped. I feel you are right on point.
I was sad that he will lose value in a trade down scenaro.

And why did USC not use him in the last few minutes? HMM!!
Biggest game of his college carrier!!!! Choked

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:25 AM
Many people have questioned whether Bush is the best back in his own backfield. LenDale was able to show on the national stage how good he is. The way he plays is definately better suited for the NFL. Also, he now has the record for most TD's in NCAA. That's not one game.

And Bush won the Heisman Trophy...also not determined by one game.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:26 AM
say what ya want.. but ive been basing MY support of Bush on the fact that he was too good a prospect to pass up.

Tonight.. he showed that he ISNT as much of a sure thing as was originally assumed. He was never a sure thing obviously.. but it was assumed that he was such a good prospect that his chances of succeeding in the NFL were very high. He didnt live up to them.

As I said in the original post here.. its not "just one game".. its the most important game.. it was his most difficult game..against the closest thing to an NFL opponent that he has seen.. and he was outshined by THREE other players who will be in the draft (Lienart, White, and Young).

I think White improved his stock to a top 10 pick.. but Bush will still go before him based on his past performance. Im not saying Bush sucks.. im saying that we dont NEED an RB.. and we were only taking him because he was too good to pass up.. Bush is still great.. but he is no longer, in my mind, a player that you "cant pass up"


BTW

Vince Young just said that he wasnt sure if he was going to declare.. he needs to sit down with his momma and his coach and make that decision :). So he isnt dead set on returning to UT at this point.

mexican_texan
01-05-2006, 01:27 AM
It was weird seeing Bush on the sidelines as opposed to on the field anywhere. White had the majority of "important" carries...
I've been saying that, and I've gotten flamed.

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:27 AM
It is funny, that everyone screams on this board that we don't need another rb on this team so we should trade off our picks. Then a local guy has a big game and now we need to use that pick on a qb. Come on guys, let's take a deep breath and evaluate this after we have more information...

TOTALLY AGREE! It's becoming laughable! Thank god the water boy didn't have a great game because everyone would be screaming to draft him!

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:29 AM
Yah you can quote me :).. I originally didnt support Bush because we didnt need a replacement for DD. Then i supported the pick because he was too good to pass up. He is no longer too good to pass up in my mind.. i have doubts about his ability to succeed at the next level.. and im not going to support spending the #1 pick and 70 million bucks on a player I dont necessarily need, and have doubts about.

houstonhurricane
01-05-2006, 01:31 AM
NW, haven't you heard? The water boy just told Chris Mortenson that he will consider giving up his final year of eligibility! This changes everything! What should we do now - Young or the waterboy...?

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:31 AM
Guys.. its not that dang "off the wall"... everyone here wants the best value for that #1 pick. The game simply gave people some doubts about Bush, and at the same time Vince Young put up an absolutely astonishing performance against what was considered to be the best Defense behind them.

Its natural that alot of us would now find ourselves less enthusiastic about Bush, and more intrigued by Vince Young... a home town prospect who has played well for two seasons.. but solidified himself as the best QB in the league in this game.

GP
01-05-2006, 01:32 AM
Chizik's defense was the closest thing to an NFL defense that Bush could EVER face this season.

And, Bush wasn't the game-changer that he has been.

Think what happens when Bush faces an NFL defense stocked full of hungry veterans ready to chew him up when he tries one of his juke moves.

White has long been the guy that has been disrespected by all of the media. That guy has been pretty humble, if you ask me. He knew he'd get his chance in front of national audience, and he didn't disappoint.

White is the better NFL back by FAR. He has JUST AS MUCH burst to the hole off the snap as any back I've ever seen. UT stopped him on fourth down ONLY because they correctly guessed which gap he would be coming through. The other times, they guessed wrong and White punished them every time.

Bush's stock just went down no matter how a person tries to spin it.

And did you see Leinart post-game interview? Awful. That guy is overly arrogant. "We lost the game...." As if Texas DIDN'T WIN the game. And my favorite was, "...we threw all over them, we ran all over them, and we just came up a half-yard short...." Anytime he gave credit to UT, he followed it with a "BUT" that went on to explain that USC was the better team. Unreal.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-05-2006, 01:32 AM
And Bush won the Heisman Trophy...also not determined by one game.

Bush won the Heisman making plays against tier 2 teams like Fresno St., Oregon, etc. LenDale has been getting yards between the tackles all year but were as "flashy" as Bush's runs. Young has been performing against the best opponents all year in the Big 12.

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:33 AM
NW, haven't you heard? The water boy just told Chris Mortenson that he will consider giving up his final year of eligibility! This changes everything! What should we do now - Young or the waterboy...?

Jees....I don't know! Maybe we can trade our #1 pick and get both!

College games are over right? Thank god because whoever would perform great tomorrow would be our NEXT #1 pick!!!!

houstonhurricane
01-05-2006, 01:34 AM
I think you all are forgetting that USC's defense is absolutely HORRIBLE. Based on your sketchy analysis, we should be looking at Brady Quinn as well... Everyone here has a right to their opinion, but I take solace in the fact that the true decisionmakers don't make draft pick decisions based on the criteria some of you are using.

GP
01-05-2006, 01:36 AM
Regarding VY and declaring for draft:

IN ESPN the magazine, an article on VY asked him about the draft, and VY said that he wants to return to Texas but that he and his mom would have to sit down and re-evaluate at the end of the season.

He gave himself the wiggle room, and I hope he wiggles into the draft. A guy like that has made his mark and he needs to capitalize off of it while he can.

Beating the unstoppable Trojans and winning it on his own legs and arm should be enough to propel him to Top 3 easily.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-05-2006, 01:37 AM
I think you all are forgetting that USC's defense is absolutely HORRIBLE. Based on your sketchy analysis, we should be looking at Brady Quinn as well... Everyone here has a right to their opinion, but I take solace in the fact that the true decisionmakers don't make draft pick decisions based on the criteria some of you are using.

Is Ohio States defense horrible? Was Michigan's defense horrible last year when it took them to the Rose Bowl? Young has done it everytime to every defense.

Jack Bauer
01-05-2006, 01:38 AM
Based on your sketchy analysis, we should be looking at Brady Quinn as well.

Brady Quinn will be a top 3 pick when he comes out as well.

houstonhurricane
01-05-2006, 01:38 AM
Yep, if he comes out he will probably be a Saint or Titan. Good luck Vince and great job tonight!

Nighthawk
01-05-2006, 01:38 AM
As I stated in another thread, we are not going to draft a player based on one college game (good or bad). There is way too much due dilligence performed - especially when it comes to number one picks. Let's let the individual workouts, combines, etc. take place and then we will have a better idea how everyone grades out.

However, no way that the Texans are going with Young. It is funny, that everyone screams on this board that we don't need another rb on this team so we should trade off our picks. Then a local guy has a big game and now we need to use that pick on a qb. Come on guys, let's take a deep breath and evaluate this after we have more information...

Listen, this is THE game, so you can put a LOT of stock in it. Here Bush face top quality, fast defensive guys like he'll see in the NFL every week. Here you had him trying to do his high school hero end around against guys who were--well, let's just say it--faster and quicker than he was. That's it. Bush has been exposed now, and with his size problems he'll drop in the draft.

Leinart look pretty good to me, in spite of the balls hanging in air mentioned on other threads. He's quick, seems to see the whole field, etc. He'll go in the first two picks. Vince Young, who some people here (not me) have been touting all year and more, was simply head and shoulders above the competition. It was as if he was a college guy playing in pee wee football, and this is against USC!

I read before the game that he didn't think he could jump past Leinart in the draft order. Tonight my money says he did that and a whole lot more. Sure, we wait to see if he comes out, we check all the tests and the combine and the individual workouts, but as of right now only a fool would rank Young as anything but #1 pick in the upcoming draft if he's available.

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:38 AM
For the record...just because I'm battling all you nincompoops that are on the "Bush Sucks" bandwagon, don't think I didn't see what Young did tonight. BUT....draft Young? And what becomes of Carr? Oh god...I just started another Carr thread. LOL...

Yes I agree that Bush didn't live up to the hype - tonight. The game of his life, his career, etc. You guys have much more sports knowlege than I but hasn't there been umpteen great ball players that had a bad game...perhaps a bad "game of their life" college game and went on to become great pro players? It's impossible to say, "this is the closest he will come to seeing an NFL defense and he didn't do squat so he will never make it in the NFL" based on one game.

I find that statement moronic.

How 'Bout Them Texans???
01-05-2006, 01:39 AM
agreed! i was skeptical about bush, but i figured, wtf, its better than nothing. now that young could possibly be in the draft, he'll be alot more beneficial. bush had a pathetic and disappointing performance in the rose bowl and young lived up to my expectations and them some, he got the job down when you need him to, he improves if the play falls apart, he actually gets down and dirty with the opponent's defense and doesnt run like a little ***** like leinart. he's got courage to run right into the defense and emerge intact, only to rush it himself and make a play.

i want a player who can throw and run....all by himself if need be. young always has done that, reggie bush is overhyped by a moronic media of america. ESPN didnt know what to say after the rose bowl because the past 6 months of their broadcasting has gone in vain and they realize they dont know what theyre talking about. now theyre acting like they've been siding with texas the whole season, what dicks...

Nighthawk
01-05-2006, 01:39 AM
Many people have questioned whether Bush is the best back in his own backfield. LenDale was able to show on the national stage how good he is. The way he plays is definately better suited for the NFL. Also, he now has the record for most TD's in NCAA. That's not one game.

Yeah, I think this is right, a smart post. Thanks.

DRAMA
01-05-2006, 01:42 AM
And yet still not ONE SINGLE ANNOUNCER or person of note would take Lendale over Bush.

Pro defense? Texas?

ok - give me 170 rush/rec every game and I'll take it.

Talking about bandwagon. Where were you guys when Vince played A&M? Uhh..let me guess...it was another bandwagon. I love all the John Kerry quotes -

"Yeah, I supported Bush but not before I didn;t support him and then wanted to support him but actually didn't support him but was going to support him and then did support him....uhh....yeah, not before that!!"

Vomit!!

(But I would rather have Vince than Carr! So, if there's a seat...)

NWTexan Fan
01-05-2006, 01:43 AM
[QUOTE=How 'Bout Them Texans???]i want a player who can throw and run....all by himself if need be. QUOTE]

Yeah we know that's all you need to get far in the playoffs. Forget the o line!

zeplin
01-05-2006, 01:44 AM
At least now we can get back to arguing about which OL we are going to trade him for on draft day.
Can we say
D'brickshaw- can I get a Amen fellas
Sport center is now saying VY will be #1 if he declares.
Breath!!!!

HoustonFan
01-05-2006, 01:44 AM
It was the Vince Young show. Starring Vince Young w/ special appearances by TE, #16 David Thomas.

Congratulations Vince young, I mean UT Longhorns. :ok: :redtowel: :yahoo:

houstonhurricane
01-05-2006, 01:46 AM
Listen clearly, NFL scouts will not make their decision based solely on one game. Period. IF you want to, that is fine. I am not trying to take anyting away from Vince. He is clearly a stud and deserves hype. Furthermore, I am not trying to push Bush. But to come to conclusions after this game tonight is way too premature.

SESupergenius
01-05-2006, 01:46 AM
If Young declares then that makes our spot that much sweeter. It heightens our leverage to deal this pick. Even if Bush is still our man there would be a team out there that would be will to take Young ahead of him so we could possibley trade down and get him anyways.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:47 AM
Yeah we know that's all you need to get far in the playoffs. Forget the o line!


Course thats not ALL you need....buuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuuut :)

http://www.houstontexans.com/fan_zone/messageboards/showthread.php?t=16417

texplayer2
01-05-2006, 01:48 AM
Bush won the Heisman making plays against tier 2 teams like Fresno St., Oregon, etc. LenDale has been getting yards between the tackles all year but were as "flashy" as Bush's runs. Young has been performing against the best opponents all year in the Big 12.

This game was in no way a blowout by either team. Vince Young was the recipient of a better defense than SC had. If SC makes that one yard we are discussing things the other way. I still don't know why they didn't pull to the outside on one of those fourth downs they missed. Both the offenses are still very good places to find players. As for the best opponents all year in the big 12? What is that, they blew all those teams away. Their best opponent was A&M in the big 12, the rest of the schedule was Canon Fodder.

Jack Bauer
01-05-2006, 01:49 AM
Listen clearly, NFL scouts will not make their decision based solely on one game. Period. IF you want to, that is fine. I am not trying to take anyting away from Vince. He is clearly a stud and deserves hype. Furthermore, I am not trying to push Bush. But to come to conclusions after this game tonight is way too premature.

For many people on this board, this is the icing. We have seen him play all year. I watched him in the Rose Bowl last year and actually watched as much as I could all of this year. His progress is tremendous. Do not assume that everyone is making this proclamation from this one game. This one game may have tipped the scales for some, but it is definitely not the ONLY time we have seen him play this type of game.

What ONE game does show is that he has what it takes to show up for the big game with the pressure all on him. I don't know about you, but I want this kind of guy on my team.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:49 AM
Listen clearly, NFL scouts will not make their decision based solely on one game. Period. IF you want to, that is fine. I am not trying to take anyting away from Vince. He is clearly a stud and deserves hype. Furthermore, I am not trying to push Bush. But to come to conclusions after this game tonight is way too premature.


That is true.. they wont.. but they will put more weight in certain games than they do in others. This is a game that the scouts will put alot of weight into.. it not only puts Bush against a team of equal talent.. it also puts him in a stressful situation, and gives him the chance to either step up and shine, or hide on the sidelines.

They wont ELIMINATE Bush from the draft board because of this game.. but I bet you there will be alot more talk about whether or not Bush is really what we need in Houston when we already have DD and a pretty solid running game.

Grid
01-05-2006, 01:51 AM
.
What ONE game does show is that he has what it takes to show up for the big game with the pressure all on him.

Whether he "showed up for that game" or not.. is debateable.

zeplin
01-05-2006, 01:52 AM
Listen clearly, NFL scouts will not make their decision based solely on one game. Period. IF you want to, that is fine. I am not trying to take anyting away from Vince. He is clearly a stud and deserves hype. Furthermore, I am not trying to push Bush. But to come to conclusions after this game tonight is way too premature.

Cmon we all know you want to say it..
Cmon!!
Reggie did't get it done on the National stage with the bright lights shinning and the NFL teams watching.

Who did USC really play all year. This was simply the best team they have seen in 2005. Reggie was not the one to take over the game Per every sports show on the planet earth predictions.:homer:

LBC_Justin
01-05-2006, 01:57 AM
Grid,

Many times you and I have agreed on controversial issues, but...

this is another time!!!

Young was fabulous. He took over that game. I think Bush had a lot of his highlights against tier 2/3 caliber D-I teams. Young performed all year against the best and I have to admit now that he deserves the Heisman and I would take him #1 and let Carr go either at the end of this season or trade him to NO for the #2 pick since no QB wants to go here. With the #2 we could get Bush or Ferguson. I'm a TTU fan so admitting this is hard for me but Yound was fantastic and I would be more excited to see him hold that Texans jersey up in April than Bush.You are not in touch with reality.

zeplin
01-05-2006, 02:13 AM
Everyone step back and take a breath. We are not trading Carr forget that, Mcnair loves him.
Focus on building a team. Lets take the good players and get some more
We can still build in this draft.:homer:

Grid
01-05-2006, 02:16 AM
eh.. thats the problem. If we dont take Bush, then we need to trade down. Which may serve us fairly well.. or.. we may be giving up the chance to get a true playmaker..

its a BIG chance we are taking either way we go. Im not sold on taking Bush anymore though.

Grid
01-05-2006, 02:17 AM
btw.... I probably should have waited to make this post :).. all these Tsips making outlandish "OMG DRAFT YOUNG!" posts are making me look like the bevo ringleader here.

Honoring Earl 34
01-05-2006, 02:27 AM
:ok: I bet if Mcnair and his Longhorn son Cal chewed the fat over some cold Bud lights they would see the possible earnings involved with Vince . He then might not like Carr so much .

If Vince goes pro to say the Titans and Dave's stripes don't change . Then Vince ended up a Top 10 QB on the Titans , Bob would never be forgiven .

Grid
01-05-2006, 02:28 AM
If Vince goes pro to say the Titans and Dave's stripes don't change . Then Vince ended up a Top 10 QB on the Titans , Bob would never be forgiven


oooo...yah... that would lead to some angry Texans.

Bongo59
01-05-2006, 02:49 AM
Bush bad day was 275 yds of total O..............no exactly chop liver..........take young we'll take Bush.

TexanBacker93
01-05-2006, 02:52 AM
In the 2000 Mobile Bowl a Southern Miss team held some highly touted running back to 118 yards on 28 carries. It was his worst performance of the season. Yeah, I see how one "poor" game by Bush should change everything. That Tomlinson guy that struggled in his last game really has been a piss poor pro.

Michael Vick only threw for 205 yards in his last college game.

Peyton Manning threw for only 134 yards in his last college game, a blowout loss to Nebraska.

John Elway never even got his team to a Bowl game. He never won a Heisman (although that award means nothing in the NFL).

My point is that one game doesn't make a player's career. Where would the Colts be if they had decided that Ryan Leafs 331 yard performance in the Rose Bowl was more important than Manning's college career especially considering Manning had such a lousy day against the Cornhuskers?

As for the comment about Bush's stats against lousy teams while Young dominated better teams. Only Ohio St. can be considered a very good team this season amongst the Longhorns schedule. USC played a tougher schedule, but the better team still won at the end.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 02:57 AM
In the 2000 Mobile Bowl a Southern Miss team held some highly touted running back to 118 yards on 28 carries. It was his worst performance of the season. Yeah, I see how one "poor" game by Bush should change everything. That Tomlinson guy that struggled in his last game really has been a piss poor pro.

Michael Vick only threw for 205 yards in his last college game.

Peyton Manning threw for only 134 yards in his last college game, a blowout loss to Nebraska.

John Elway never even got his team to a Bowl game. He never won a Heisman (although that award means nothing in the NFL).

My point is that one game doesn't make a player's career. Where would the Colts be if they had decided that Ryan Leafs 331 yard performance in the Rose Bowl was more important than Manning's college career especially considering Manning had such a lousy day against the Cornhuskers?

As for the comment about Bush's stats against lousy teams while Young dominated better teams. Only Ohio St. can be considered a very good team this season amongst the Longhorns schedule. USC played a tougher schedule, but the better team still won at the end.


The funny thing is that Reggie's game was only poor to his standards the past few games. Since when is 272 all purpose yards and 1 touchdown a bad game?

Grid
01-05-2006, 03:03 AM
his stats were fine... his running ability wasnt. And White came out with much better stats btw.

TexanBacker93
01-05-2006, 03:16 AM
his stats were fine... his running ability wasnt. And White came out with much better stats btw.

White ran straight ahead through the tackles to where a linebacking corp should have been. He didn't really do anything other than take what was there. Bush made things happen and showed he's able to create plays on his own. His yards per carry were better than White's. He had less TDs so that must be why White was the better player.

HJam72
01-05-2006, 03:30 AM
You people ALMOST had me wanting to draft Bush. Now, I've seen him against the best D he will face in college and I have 2 words:

TRADE
DOWN!!!

rockabilly
01-05-2006, 03:41 AM
In the 2000 Mobile Bowl a Southern Miss team held some highly touted running back to 118 yards on 28 carries. It was his worst performance of the season. Yeah, I see how one "poor" game by Bush should change everything. That Tomlinson guy that struggled in his last game really has been a piss poor pro.

Michael Vick only threw for 205 yards in his last college game.

Peyton Manning threw for only 134 yards in his last college game, a blowout loss to Nebraska.

John Elway never even got his team to a Bowl game. He never won a Heisman (although that award means nothing in the NFL).

My point is that one game doesn't make a player's career. Where would the Colts be if they had decided that Ryan Leafs 331 yard performance in the Rose Bowl was more important than Manning's college career especially considering Manning had such a lousy day against the Cornhuskers?

As for the comment about Bush's stats against lousy teams while Young dominated better teams. Only Ohio St. can be considered a very good team this season amongst the Longhorns schedule. USC played a tougher schedule, but the better team still won at the end.

THANK YOU. Exactly my point proven......

Texans Horror
01-05-2006, 08:43 AM
The lauded Texas defense has been gearing up for taking out Reggie. That was the gameplan, so I was not surprised that Bush did not put up 400+ yards. Texas is a great team. But if Bush had stopped, dropped, and rolled instead of trying to lateral the ball, maybe we would be talking more about how great Bush is. I still think he is a valuable playmaker and worthy of the #1 pick. Lendale White looked good because he was a bit of an X factor. If your mind is on stopping Bush, then Lendale has room to wiggle. Credit Pete Carrol for this (who, btw, coached an excellent game - I have a lot more respect for that guy).

eriadoc
01-05-2006, 11:19 AM
The lauded Texas defense has been gearing up for taking out Reggie. That was the gameplan, so I was not surprised that Bush did not put up 400+ yards. Texas is a great team. But if Bush had stopped, dropped, and rolled instead of trying to lateral the ball, maybe we would be talking more about how great Bush is. I still think he is a valuable playmaker and worthy of the #1 pick. Lendale White looked good because he was a bit of an X factor. If your mind is on stopping Bush, then Lendale has room to wiggle. Credit Pete Carrol for this (who, btw, coached an excellent game - I have a lot more respect for that guy).

Except .....

LenDale White has been doing this all season long. His style of running translates better to the NFL and he will have a better pro career, IMO. Imagine LenDale White on a team like the Steelers, Panthers, or Ravens (now that Lewis might be out). To me, a back like LenDale White (235 lbs., good stright-line speed) is a better complement to DD than Bush would be.

bigTEXan8
01-05-2006, 11:43 AM
I got to agree with this. Lendale white is a much better NFL style runner. I'd rather have him to complimate DD. He could be our version of TJ Duckett.

Texans Horror
01-05-2006, 11:53 AM
Except .....

LenDale White has been doing this all season long. His style of running translates better to the NFL and he will have a better pro career, IMO. Imagine LenDale White on a team like the Steelers, Panthers, or Ravens (now that Lewis might be out). To me, a back like LenDale White (235 lbs., good stright-line speed) is a better complement to DD than Bush would be.

USC was the first team with a high-calibre run game that UT faced, so I think they emphasized on Bush, JMO. They would have been fools to neglect LenDale, though. And yes, he is a monster. But IMO, Reggie is to much of a tool. He can catch and he can run. He put some great moves on Texas. Reggie Bush is like a DD with speed and, from what I have gathered from other people, the ability to block, which we desperately need.

Could LenDale replace the Bus? From what I saw, I think so.

|The.Brand0n|
01-05-2006, 11:59 AM
Ya'll make me sick. Bandwagoners. You act as if 272 All Purpose Yards is bad. You also act as if Reggie has reached his full potential and has no more room for improvement. A game where Reggie was held on the sidelines (thanks to Carroll) and shouldve had more chances at the ball, you all say he chocked. That's moronic. Bush in '06.

cuppacoffee
01-05-2006, 12:41 PM
Bush won the Heisman making plays against tier 2 teams like Fresno St., Oregon, etc. LenDale has been getting yards between the tackles all year but were as "flashy" as Bush's runs. Young has been performing against the best opponents all year in the Big 12.

:rofl:

Yeah right.......The awesome teams in the Big 12 would have shut Bush down weekly. :pigfly:

TXurias
01-05-2006, 12:49 PM
:rofl:

Yeah right.......The awesome teams in the Big 12 would have shut Bush down weekly. :pigfly:
I think VY did a awesome job last night and yeah he's a hometown boy but the timing is bad. We don't need a QB....look at the playoffs this year. How many "mobile" QB's are left. Hmmmmmmm let's see we got Brady, Manning, Hasselback, another Manning, Brunell, Palmer, do u see a trend...we need a great defense with a solid ground game and a QB that can make descisions in the pocket. Just let it go...Bush will be #1 and we will be in the playoffs in the next 2 yrs. VY we might be looking at 3-4yrs before the playoffs.

eriadoc
01-05-2006, 12:50 PM
Ya'll make me sick. Bandwagoners. You act as if 272 All Purpose Yards is bad. You also act as if Reggie has reached his full potential and has no more room for improvement. A game where Reggie was held on the sidelines (thanks to Carroll) and shouldve had more chances at the ball, you all say he chocked. That's moronic. Bush in '06.

Feel free to check my posting history. I've opposed taking Bush for as long as it's been a topic on this board and I have also previously asserted that LenDale White is the better pro prospect. Last night's game did nothing to change my already-formed opinion, that's all.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 01:02 PM
I think VY did a awesome job last night and yeah he's a hometown boy but the timing is bad. We don't need a QB....look at the playoffs this year. How many "mobile" QB's are left. Hmmmmmmm let's see we got Brady, Manning, Hasselback, another Manning, Brunell, Palmer, do u see a trend...we need a great defense with a solid ground game and a QB that can make descisions in the pocket. Just let it go...Bush will be #1 and we will be in the playoffs in the next 2 yrs. VY we might be looking at 3-4yrs before the playoffs.


You actually make a good point. Running quarterbacks were a novelty a few years ago, but teams and players are realizing that if you can't throw the ball you are not going to have success. McNabb learned it, Culpeper learned it, Vick is learning it, and Young will learn it.

Dubble Trubble
01-05-2006, 01:18 PM
In my opinion....Reggie did nothing to minimize his future. One mistake (although, huge) doesn't break down weeks and weeks worth of good football.

If anything....I think this game served as a very humbling experience, in how quickly everything can disappear when you've been on top (the record, big program, big city, etc.) for so long. He's done it on the HS level with success....and it bit him in the **** on the college level. So, most likely, his lateral days are over with.

Bush will be alright.



:)

HoustonFrog
01-05-2006, 01:23 PM
Soemthing that isn't in the stats is also how having a guy like him opens up the rest of the offense. Even when Bush didn't have the ball, the Texas D and other Ds have keyed on him. Leinart had all day on play action. That helsp out any O-line and any QB.

NFLforher
01-05-2006, 02:31 PM
It was weird seeing Bush on the sidelines as opposed to on the field anywhere. White had the majority of "important" carries...



Pete was pissed about that boneheaded play.

pv1999
01-05-2006, 02:43 PM
The Draft is about upside, not history. QB's have won more Superbowls than RB's and quite frankly if HOUSTON TEXAS'S OWN VINCE YOUNG is on the board, he deserves to be a Texan. He needs time to learn, yes but who's backing up Carr now? This would rate up there with last year's brainfart letting a TEXAS STUD Derrick Johnson go elsewhere. I am a homer but lets just be real, if you are from Texas then you will play harder in your home state. Do you want that working FOR you or AGAINST you? Either way VY will be a factor in Houston we can PAY him or PLAY him. Just a thought.

Texans Horror
01-05-2006, 03:47 PM
The Draft is about upside, not history. QB's have won more Superbowls than RB's and quite frankly if HOUSTON TEXAS'S OWN VINCE YOUNG is on the board, he deserves to be a Texan. He needs time to learn, yes but who's backing up Carr now? This would rate up there with last year's brainfart letting a TEXAS STUD Derrick Johnson go elsewhere. I am a homer but lets just be real, if you are from Texas then you will play harder in your home state. Do you want that working FOR you or AGAINST you? Either way VY will be a factor in Houston we can PAY him or PLAY him. Just a thought.

Here's a thought: Draft Young and mentor him for a year or two under Kubiak. After Carr does fairly well over the next year or two with a good line, trade him somewhere for more picks. I call it the Cincinnatti Sneak since it is "similar" to what they did with Palmer.

Texas_Thrill
01-05-2006, 04:05 PM
VINCE YOUNG WILL BE AN OAKLAND RAIDER!!!!! You heard it here first.


Point blank the only thing that happen for me last night is some players stock went up while others just MAINTAINED where they were.

READ EVERYTHING I SAY BEFORE JUMPING ON ME: Last night USC used Bush liked the Lions use to use B Sanders in certain big games. More as a decoy and they would give him the ball so inconsistently he never really got into the FLOW of the game.

It is NOT Bush's fault he wasn't being put in the game to make plays. Last night was him playing close to an NFL Defense and HELLO he averaged almost 5 yards a pop. Showed himself a serious receiving threat. Can someone tell me what they want from this kid? To walk on water perhaps.

Did I expect more out of him? HELL YES but I can't fault him for not getting more when the coaches aren't getting him the ball.

I mean did NO ONE SEE when Bush laid his shoulder into the Texas player at the beginning of the game? Obviously they should have called for more plays for Bush b/w the tackles. You can jump on Lendale white bandwagon if you want but EVERYTIME he tried to run outside they stuffed his big behind as well.


ALL THAT SAID....YOUNG IS THE MAN.

William.carter
01-05-2006, 04:39 PM
Bush bad day was 275 yds of total O..............no exactly chop liver..........take young we'll take Bush.


The TV graphic should have broken it down, it was more like 177 yds rushing and receiving. that 275 is misleading. In a game with as many scores as there was, he'd have to be in a wheelchair not to rack up at least 100 return yards.

The thing that bothered me most, and I said this in another thread, is that after he fumbled that lateral, he lost his spark. He carried that mistake with him the whole game. Mental toughness is very important in the NFL.

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:11 PM
You can jump on Lendale white bandwagon if you want but EVERYTIME he tried to run outside they stuffed his big behind as well.

.

I just want to point out that running outside just isn't done in the NFL and Bush (or anyone else) won't be able to do it either--at least not for consistant yardage. The LBs are too fast.

White is a north and south runner. He is a bigger DD who can most likely block. I wouldn't mind having him at all, but I'm not saying that's my final decision.

You wanna know what really impressed me in that game that made me see a major weakness with the Texans? We just don't have that EASY 5 yd. dump to the TE and then watch him muscle his way for another 3 to 5 yds. and a first down. We need that really bad. I've heard people recently saying that Carr never throws over the middle, but he sure did it when we had Billy Miller (of course, he couldn't block). Oh, and we don't give our QB PROTECTION.

Afrokid
01-05-2006, 08:15 PM
can u please explain to me how exactly he chocked? I find it pretty funny how everyone has jumped onto the vince vibe [as espn described it] after he won the rose bowl. Do remember after reggie bushes performance against fresno, everyone was like omg, Reggie Bush for Heisman...and now that V. Young has won the rose bowl everyone wants a piece of Young.

Also Bush had a pretty much amazing game, wether you like to admit it or not. He wasn't even playing in 75% of it, yet he managed quite a few rushing yards, one of which landed in a touchdown, and the other could have been a touchdown if the guy her lateralled to was actually paying attention! No one seems to find fault with the player that didn't catch the laterall??? If that player would have cought the ball everyone would be talking about how AMAZING Bush's decision to laterall was and how amazing he is. So please look at his track record before u totally judge him on one game, which he did do well in.

Bush + Davis would be an unstoppable combo, plus with a few OL picks in later rounds, the Texans...dare i say it...could be a 7 - 8 win team??? Carr is a very solid QB so their is no need to draft V Young or Leinart. Car has what it takes to be a good QB, and if the offensive line would actually allow him time to pass, he would easily demonstrate it to everyone.

Though i am high on Young right now, Reggie Bush will make a greatly affect the team within the first year hes around.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 08:16 PM
I just want to point out that running outside just isn't done in the NFL and Bush (or anyone else) won't be able to do it either--at least not for consistant yardage. The LBs are too fast.


Priest Holmes would beg to differ.

real
01-05-2006, 08:17 PM
I agree with alot you are saying except, if Young were to come out I'd rather have him, but if not then Bush it is...And it was by no means the fault of the guy who missed the lateral...

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:18 PM
I think Reggie would make a bigger difference on this team as a WR, but that's just not worth a #1 pick to me.

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:19 PM
Priest Holmes would beg to differ.

OK, but that's because Holmes RUNS OVER PEOPLE on the outside. I don't see Bush doing that.

tulexan
01-05-2006, 08:24 PM
OK, but that's because Holmes RUNS OVER PEOPLE on the outside. I don't see Bush doing that.

I did last night. I think it was Cedric Griffin that he steam rolled in the first quarter.

real
01-05-2006, 08:28 PM
Yeah he did... Reggie can break tackles...People are just blind to what they don't want to see

Erratic Assassin
01-05-2006, 08:35 PM
As long as we're going to do something stupid (I have no doubt Casserly will do something stupid) and somehow NOT draft a lineman with a first round pick, I'd rather have Vince than Reggie. That's not based on one game. I've watched Vince all year and that man has ice water in his veins, he is special, he is a leader, and he can do it by himself with his arm and his legs.

I think Carr could be a good enough QB and I think DD could be a good enough RB making Bush and Young unnecessary luxuries, but that's another story. Casserly WILL draft Bush and we are wasting our time speculating about anything else.

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:38 PM
Yeah he did... Reggie can break tackles...People are just blind to what they don't want to see

I don't remember that, but I can promise you that, in the interest of the Texans future, I wanted nothing more last night than to see Bush & Leinart kick butt. My impression was that most of the time Bush ran up to the line, stopped, and then tried to get outside and that he was usually unsuccessfull at it now that he finally saw a real defense. Granted, he did have some success and that 26 yd. TD run was impressive, but appeared extemely inconsistent to me. White, on the other hand, seemed to be very consistant running right up the middle and USC stuck with him for good reason most of the game. I don't think that translates to the idea that Reggie Bush is so great that we take him despite having horrendous needs in other areas and already having a RB that we can't afford to release because of a major cap hit or pay both of them under the salary cap.

real
01-05-2006, 08:43 PM
Im not going to get into all that other stuff, I just pointed out that the guy breaks tackles...He banged a texans defender on the sideline on the first series...

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:44 PM
Just for the record, I wrote the following in the thread "Bush had better impress me big-time...." under "2006 draft and combine discussion" section:

Not only that, but I'll be rooting for Leinhart too. I care way more about the implications this game has for the Texans than I do about the Longhorns....sorry, people.

Wolf
01-05-2006, 08:54 PM
thing I like with Vince is he knows how to win.. he has confidence and his team draws off his confidence.. Some want to talk about this Rose Bowl and Vince what about last Rose bowl too? Even against Ohio State he led the charge.. (top ranked opponent at the time)

Now I am not on the draft Vince or Bush sucks bandwagon, I think Bush really didn't hurt himself with the game. It is just USC hadn't met a team that was equal to them and that game could have went both ways.. What I see is Bush is going to be good in the pro's but goal line situations.. I see him coming out unless he has an offensive line like the Cowboys in the early '90's..

HJam72
01-05-2006, 08:56 PM
You think he can run up the middle with success (not talking about goal-line--somebody else can do that)? It has to be done sometimes, even if it's not his forte.

real
01-05-2006, 08:59 PM
I think he can...Why wouldn't he ba able too? I think that if given some of Whites carries he may have done more with them...White wasn't getting hit in the backfield consistently and making something out of nothing...He had holes to run through..In fact I believe that if they wouldve given the ball to reggie on that fourth and short he may have gotten it

tulexan
01-05-2006, 09:08 PM
Maybe Reggie can just dive up the middle. Didn't he dive like 7 or 8 yards last night in that touchdown? I swear he jumped from just inside the 5 yard line and landed a few yards in the endzone.

pv1999
01-05-2006, 09:26 PM
Texans don't need a quick fix. Bush is just a faster, quicker DD maybe even an LT-type talent. Maybe we win as many games as the Chargers! WOOHOO. Young gives us something that very few teams have. The upside of having a running QB is greater than the upside of having a great RB. Having someone touch the ball every play that can take it to the house vs. someone you have to change the offense for to get involved. AND When we change the offense for this guy, how does that sit with AJ and the others? Bottom line we should get Vince.

real
01-05-2006, 09:29 PM
Wow we are seeing a whole new brand of fan... At first it was the trade the pick VS. the we want bush, now it's a new hybrid of we want VY guys...It's nothing wrong with that, and I've been a pick reggie guy, but thats only because I never thought VY would come out...

Kaiser Toro
01-05-2006, 09:29 PM
Texans don't need a quick fix. Bush is just a faster, quicker DD maybe even an LT-type talent. Maybe we win as many games as the Chargers! WOOHOO. Young gives us something that very few teams have. The upside of having a running QB is greater than the upside of having a great RB. Having someone touch the ball every play that can take it to the house vs. someone you have to change the offense for to get involved. AND When we change the offense for this guy, how does that sit with AJ and the others? Bottom line we should get Vince.

The starting QB's in the playoffs this year average 4 yards per game rushing. Not sure where the running QB is a great thing started. Moreover, the Zone read is a big part of VY's success in college and will not be run in the NFL.

pv1999
01-05-2006, 09:47 PM
The starting QB's in the playoffs this year average 4 yards per game rushing. Not sure where the running QB is a great thing started. Moreover, the Zone read is a big part of VY's success in college and will not be run in the NFL.

This year is an exception. Look at QBs from the last THREE years playoffs . Any defensive mind will tell you that having to account for a QB who is faster than the average LB is a tall task. Most will rather have the pocket passer who they can account for with just linemen and an occasional blitzing LB. McNabb, McNair, McVick....McVince they force the defense to single cover recievers, and put extra guys on them (spys). When they single cover AJ, TO, Dyson....TD. And for your information, A big part of VY's success in college is the other team's defense trying to make him pass by not pressuring him, thus giving him all day to find someone. They didn't want the play to break down because that usually means scramble time. And Scramble Time usually means TD Time.

Kaiser Toro
01-05-2006, 09:55 PM
VY does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and size. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight VY's weaknesses. Scramble time usually means a breakdown in execution. If your offense needs to be bailed out by a QB scrambling, then it ain't much of an offense.

pv1999
01-05-2006, 10:06 PM
VY does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and size. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight VY's weaknesses. Scramble time usually means a breakdown in execution. If your offense needs to be bailed out by a QB scrambling, then it ain't much of an offense.

2001 - Michael does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and speed. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight Michael's weaknesses.

2004 - Michael was named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004. Set an NFL playoff record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Rams. Led the team to an 11-4 record, which was the third-best record for a starting quarterback in team history behind Chris Chandler (13-1 in 1998) and Steve Bartkowski (12-4 in 1980).

1995 - Steve is just not ready for NFL defenses.

2000 - Just short of Superbowl miracle.

2003 - Steve is crowned NFL Co-MVP. There are five players in the history of the NFL who have passed for 20,000 yards and rushed for 3,000 yards – John Elway, Fran Tarkenton, Steve Young, Randall Cunningham and McNair.

Kaiser Toro
01-05-2006, 10:11 PM
2001 - Micheal does not take care of the ball that well and is fumble prone. He simply gets away with a lot in college due to his freakish talent and speed. However, the next level will offer many like characteristics on D which will highlight Micheal's weaknesses.

2004 - Micheal was named to the second Pro Bowl of his career after leading the Falcons to their third division title in team history and breaking numerous NFL and team records in 2004. Set an NFL playoff record for a quarterback with 119 rushing yards in the 2004 NFC Divisional Playoff Game against the Rams. Led the team to an 11-4 record, which was the third-best record for a starting quarterback in team history behind Chris Chandler (13-1 in 1998) and Steve Bartkowski (12-4 in 1980).

You have proven my point. 5 years in the league for Vick and you are trumpeting a popularity contest (Pro Bowl) as an accomplishment. Has he been to a Super Bowl yet? Has he won a NFC championship? These are things that matter in this game.

I think Vick was ready for the league more so than VY.

Grid
01-05-2006, 10:13 PM
The Falcons defense has done more for that team than Vick has.

Vick is very talented athletically.. but his lack of ability as a REAL QB is what hurts him.. badly.

But I think comparing Young to Vick is not quite fair anyway. Young is a better QB.

Either way.. I dont think Young or Bush are the best choices for this team.

Click my signature.

pv1999
01-05-2006, 10:23 PM
You have proven my point. 5 years in the league for Vick and you are trumpeting a popularity contest (Pro Bowl) as an accomplishment. Has he been to a Super Bowl yet? Has he won a NFC championship? These are things that matter in this game.

I think Vick was ready for the league more so than VY.

Yea you're probably right, Vick was just a game away from a Superbowl. McNabb has been to a couple but just like McNair has always come up short.

hmmmm.....but what about
JOHN ELWAY.
STEVE YOUNG.
And where it all started sadly in Dallas with ROGER STAUBACH.

That's about 10 Superbowls, most of them victories.

Tale Gator
01-05-2006, 10:43 PM
Has he been to a Super Bowl yet? Has he won a NFC championship? These are things that matter in this game.

Has Peyton Manning? ;)

Kaiser Toro
01-05-2006, 10:52 PM
Has Peyton Manning? ;)

He has not, but he has nothing to do with our conversation. That is unless you think that Payton is the prototypical scrambling QB. :cool:

Tulip
01-05-2006, 11:07 PM
I wasn't over the moon about Reggie Bush before. I had the "If we take him, okay - if we don't, okay" mentality.

I think he had a good performance last night. But there are players in college who are as good, who are as talented as he is.

Kaiser Toro
01-05-2006, 11:10 PM
Has Peyton Manning? ;)

btw, love the unfrozen caveman lawyer avatar.

bpergrem3
01-05-2006, 11:59 PM
Here's some quotes from real NFL personel guys on Vince, Reggie, and Matt from Chris Mortensen insider article on ESPN. I have to agree with these guys since they actually do this for a living.

• "I'd still take Leinart over Young as an NFL quarterback, but Leinart is not a franchise guy in the traditional sense. He's not John Elway, Dan Marino, Peyton Manning or Carson Palmer. Now, really, there aren't a lot of those guys anyway. Alex Smith sure wasn't. When [Texas] blanketed the USC receivers, especially early in the game, you got a glimpse of what the NFL is like. The windows are a lot tighter. Leinart struggled with those. But give the USC coaches credit -- they adjusted and managed to put up, what, over 500 yards against a pretty talented Texas defense?"

• "Young is a great competitor, that's the thing you have to like about him. But be careful about his athleticism. It's a great attribute but he doesn't have Michael Vick's suddenness. He's got real good speed, but it's not world-class speed, and you see what eventually happens to the guys in this league -- they get beat up and they slow down. He is strong for a fairly lean guy. And you have to like his size. But if you do the film cut-ups on just his throws from last night's game, you're going to be fairly unimpressed."

• "Leinart's clearly a bright guy. He's got better feet than most people talk about. His arm strength is average. He doesn't throw as many pure spirals as you would like. But he's a big guy, he's played a lot of football in a pro-style offense and he's had a lot of success. He's not going to carry a franchise on his back, but if you put talent around him, he's going to be a good quarterback in the NFL. And let's face it, we need more good quarterbacks."

• "If Young's performance did anything, it made a case that he should have won the Heisman, not [Reggie] Bush. But that was splitting hairs. That's not a very good USC defense he faced -- didn't Fresno State put up 40 on them? What I like about Young is that he's gotten better every year as far as throwing the football. He does spin it a lot better than he did before. Arm strength, like Leinart, pretty marginal. He won't have the same success running the ball in the NFL, not even close. But he's a leader, he'll generate some excitement, and then he'll get ripped [by the media and fans] when he doesn't dazzle in the NFL like people think. Still, if I were him, I'd probably come out. He needs a lot of work and he might as well start getting it now."

As for Bush, he still projects as the probable No. 1 pick in April's draft by the Houston Texans.

"He still did enough Superman stunts to make you say, 'Wow,'" said one personnel man. "There aren't many players who make you go, 'Wow,' so he's got tremendous value to a team. Maybe he's not a 4.2 guy [in the 40] but he's got plenty of juice."

Now, USC running back LenDale White had all these guys pretty excited.

"That's an NFL back," said one scout. "He's 220 pounds-plus and he will be a big-timer in our league. He won't dazzle, but he's the type of guy with the right team who can win a rushing title and score a lot of touchdowns."

mean mark8
01-06-2006, 12:31 AM
IMO, Reggie Bush is the next coming of Raghib Ismail. A stud who could do a lot of things in college but wasn't an every down player. How does that translate to the #1 overall pick? Bush is not going to carry the ball 25+ times a game. Are we going to pay 1st overall money to a guy who's going to get ~15-20 touches a game? Are we going to replace Jerome Mathis with Reggie Bush on kickoff returns? Mathis has a higher career avg. mark.

Vince Young had the highest QB rating of all Div-I QBs, ahead of Leinhart. He looks like a stronger version of Michael Vick with a more accurate throw. His motion is awkward but pretty quick and his passes are on the money. How many times this year did a defender get a clear shot at him and whiff, either because of his strength or speed? How many times did we see David Carr do the same thing? Young is the real deal and if he comes out, I say good-bye to the gun shy Carr and his $8 million option and hello to the gun-slinger Vince Young. He wasn't a one game wonder, his QB rating and 29-2 record proves that.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-06-2006, 01:34 AM
:rofl:

Yeah right.......The awesome teams in the Big 12 would have shut Bush down weekly. :pigfly:

I know Fresno St. and the Pac 10 couldn't shut down the likes of Young. He has made better teams look stupid.

Teams in the Big 12 (TAMU, OU, UT, and now TTU) are always in the top 15 in recruiting classes year-in-year-out. The 3 conferences with the best defenses are Big 10, SEC, and Big 12.

Find the top defenses in the nation and you'll find the top 25 is full of Big 10, SEC and Big 12 defenses. How many SEC or Big 12 defenses prior to the Rose Bowl did USC face? How many Big 10 defenses did USC face? As many as UT did.

Thanks for playing.

bubbajaxonbrown
01-06-2006, 01:40 AM
You are not in touch with reality.

Why? b/c some of you are afraid to start over? I hate to break it to you but with a 2-14 record we've started over involuntarily and drastic changes need to be made. We would have to package more to NO for that pick but any aggressive NFL exec with a 2-12 record and 3 prospects like this would consider it.

I agree that maybe CC and McNair aren't aggressive but that has shown in their aggressiveness of updating this OL that we have. I'm tired of hearing "These guys look like their gelling" or "I've seen much improvement" or "Lets give him another look next year to see if he improves."

Aren't ya'll tired of those explanations?

HJam72
01-06-2006, 09:17 AM
Maybe Reggie can just dive up the middle. Didn't he dive like 7 or 8 yards last night in that touchdown? I swear he jumped from just inside the 5 yard line and landed a few yards in the endzone.

Yeah, that's what I thought about after I said that we didn't have to use him for goal-line situations. Shoot, that's the best time to use him. Just let him jump over everybody, lol.

Did anyone else notice that he landed right on his head when he did that? I guess durability might not be such a problem. idonno: