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run-david-run
01-03-2006, 03:55 PM
On NFLive they had a segment where they rated the 7 teams without a coach toward attracting a new coach, 1 being worst, 7 being best. We were #1, NO was above us!!! Explain that??? They then say that our O-line is terrible and we have tons of wholes, then advocate drafting Bush. After the whole segement, they say that the battle is won in the trenches and we have to upgrade the O-line, then advocated drafting Bush again!!!! Arghhhhhhh!!! I swear, the media makes me hate the idea of Reggie when they repetadly contradict themselves with what we need to do, really gets on my nerves!!!!:challenge

they also had the packers above us even though their entire offense is above 45!!!
NO dosnt have a home, Qb, or a defense yet they were rated above us.

Coach C.
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
RTR take a hit of the Henn-dogg and remember that it is what they get paid to do.

El Tejano
01-03-2006, 03:57 PM
It is so that they wont look bad when one or the other happens and it doesn't work.

I call it the Mel Kiper Jr.

run-david-run
01-03-2006, 03:58 PM
It is so that they wont look bad when one or the other happens and it doesn't work.

I call it the Mel Kiper Jr.
lol!!! how is Mike Williams working out Mel?

MorKnolle
01-03-2006, 03:59 PM
For the most part the media is just trying to throw out a bunch of garbage "news" to keep people watching and increase their ratings, and as el Tejano said this way they cover themselves when one thing happens, then they "predicted it" or "said it should happen" or whatever else to try to boost their credibility.

Coach C.
01-03-2006, 04:02 PM
J.S. I think it was based on current level of talent. At least that is what this Henn bottle is telling me.

run-david-run
01-03-2006, 04:06 PM
I think it was mostly based on the media's hatred of the Texans! Anyone remeber the word association segment?

UGA
01-03-2006, 04:06 PM
Hey can you walk and chew gum at the same time? :)

Why is it that we cant get Bush and build the line? Why cant we draft Bush, then spend any number of our next 7 picks on the line? What prohibits us from going after Bentley or Hutchinson or any other quality FA?

The most remarkable thing about this debate is that the anti-Bush crowd thinks that by drafting him that there is no way to improve any other area of the team.

Texans86
01-03-2006, 04:24 PM
Hey can you walk and chew gum at the same time? :)

Why is it that we cant get Bush and build the line? Why cant we draft Bush, then spend any number of our next 7 picks on the line? What prohibits us from going after Bentley or Hutchinson or any other quality FA?

The most remarkable thing about this debate is that the anti-Bush crowd thinks that by drafting him that there is no way to improve any other area of the team.

1) We have three servicable running backs. Morency could be a better back than we think with more time, and Wells is an amazing special teamer and third down back. I'm sure you've heard the money arguement.
2) We can't spend any number of the next 7 picks on the line because we have needs elsewhere, namely CB, LB, WR, and TE. By your reasoning, taking a lineman and Bush and one of the rest of them, we have one pick left, which would you like to spend it on? Those first three rounds are important, and we can get more picks in those rounds by trading away the pick.
3) I think Bush is a great athlete, but am still not sold on his transition to the NFL. Reading an article on foxsports.com earlier, more than just the naysayers on this board question his durability and between the tackles running.

In conclusion, if we didn't have as many needs as we do, and we didn't have DD, I'd be all for Bush. But, I think it's better if we used that pick in other ways.

Hervoyel
01-03-2006, 04:27 PM
Really? You hate the media?

That's a shame. They speak very highly of you.

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 04:38 PM
Sorry but I am going to beat this into the ground. We don't need to take an O-lineman with the 1st pick. There are many that think D'Brick is just as overrated. What is the difference between a RB getting all the hype and a Top 5 OL?Team like the Pats are built on one 2nd rounder and the rest are 3rd or below and FAs and waiver wire guys. If you look at the playoff teams, it is the same. The old Cowboys were like that. Larry Allen, 2nd round. You need the scouting dept to finally do their job and target the best O-lineman this year in middle rounds. It is a deep draft.

Also serviceable backs will not get it done in this league. Do you want an elite team over time or a team that scrapes into the playoffs but doesn't have game breakers?

Texans86
01-03-2006, 04:42 PM
Sorry but I am going to beat this into the ground. We don't need to take an O-lineman with the 1st pick. There are many that think D'Brick is just as overrated. What is the difference between a RB getting all the hype and a Top 5 OL?Team like the Pats are built on one 2nd rounder and the rest are 3rd or below and FAs and waiver wire guys. If you look at the playoff teams, it is the same. The old Cowboys were like that. Larry Allen, 2nd round. You need the scouting dept to finally do their job and target the best O-lineman this year in middle rounds. It is a deep draft.

Also serviceable backs will not get it done in this league. Do you want an elite team over time or a team that scrapes into the playoffs but doesn't have game breakers?

Do I think we could make it to the playoffs with Bush? Certainly. Do I think we would do better in the playoffs if we traded away the pick and got other spots of need? Yep. There I said it. We are better without Bush, let the criticism begin.

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 04:46 PM
Do I think we could make it to the playoffs with Bush? Certainly. Do I think we would do better in the playoffs if we traded away the pick and got other spots of need? Yep. There I said it. We are better without Bush, let the criticism begin.

That is well and good but with Casserly there is no guarantee that you will fill those holes. It isn't like you have no more picks after you take Bush. You have 7 picks..high ones in later rounds. You have 4 of the first 66. Why take an O-lineman when you can get one later? Makes no sense. It isn't like a good line guarantees a great back, but a great back sure can make a line look darn good and more attractive to free agents.

UGA
01-03-2006, 04:58 PM
1) We have three servicable running backs. Morency could be a better back than we think with more time, and Wells is an amazing special teamer and third down back. I'm sure you've heard the money arguement.

Our primary back (Davis) is injury prone and cant carry the load for a full season. He'll never be more then a decent top 15 ish back... while healthy. Wells is just that, a special teamer. Morency does have upside, but he's a question.

2) We can't spend any number of the next 7 picks on the line because we have needs elsewhere, namely CB, LB, WR, and TE. By your reasoning, taking a lineman and Bush and one of the rest of them, we have one pick left, which would you like to spend it on? Those first three rounds are important, and we can get more picks in those rounds by trading away the pick.

We have 8 picks... we take a RB in the 1st, OL in the 2nd, we still have 6 picks left, two of which are thrid rounders. How is it that we cant address more then line and rb? Furthermore, isnt there something called free agency that you can use in conjunction with the draft?

Again this is the cant walk and chew gum at the same time argument. Why is it that people assume multiple spots cant be filled via draft and free agency? We can address certain areas in either or both.

3) I think Bush is a great athlete, but am still not sold on his transition to the NFL. Reading an article on foxsports.com earlier, more than just the naysayers on this board question his durability and between the tackles running.

Ive heard such talk. And its usually prefaced by "if im trying to find something to question about him...."

UGA
01-03-2006, 05:04 PM
That is well and good but with Casserly there is no guarantee that you will fill those holes.

Very true. Who in the hell here has full faith that Cass could even pull something off like that? Look at how he's worked out other pick trades. Babin, Buchanon.

Im hoping Mcnair tells him to not even think about blowing this and to start evaluating for our second round pick.

With Cass calling the shots on a trade i give it a 60% chance to end in disaster. This is the guy that has horribly built this team in the first place.

tulexan
01-03-2006, 05:12 PM
I think it was mostly based on the media's hatred of the Texans! Anyone remeber the word association segment?


The media hates all Houston teams for some reason. They never want to see the best players go there and look for every opportunity for chances to speculate that one wants to leave. They wanted Roger Clemens to be traded to the Yankees because they thought he was being wasted in Houston. Funny how the Astros went to the World Series and the Yankees didn't. They wanted Yao to leave the Rockets and go to the Lakers. They want Reggie Bush to go to the Jets. They believe that Houston is the black hole of the sports world and that the only places that are good are cities in California or New York.

Snapple
01-03-2006, 05:14 PM
The two worst head coaching jobs in the NFL right now are the Raiders and Saints. Nothing else even comes CLOSE.

Nobody wants to coach the Saints because the team is in shambles, they don't have a home, the owner stinks, and they don't even know where the team will end up. Morale is low, and players don't want to play there.

In Oakland, they have Al Davis. Al Davis doesn't let his coaches have any freedom, and if they do try to think independently, he trades them to Tampa Bay. He doesn't let them finish their contracts either. The last three head coaches in Oakland were all out of there before their contract was up. The players have no discipline, and the roster is full of overpaid veterans and young draft busts.

There is no way that Houston is a less attractive coaching job than either of those two teams. There's just no way.

PapaL
01-03-2006, 05:18 PM
Well if it makes anyone feel anybetter, Dan Patrick ranks us as the #1 spot for a new coach. He was talking about it/us on his show on ESPN Radio.

Texans86
01-03-2006, 05:25 PM
It isn't like a good line guarantees a great back, but a great back sure can make a line look darn good and more attractive to free agents.

Two words. Denver Broncos. That line could make almost anyone on this board a 1000 yard back. The game is one in the trenches. Besides, ask any decent running back why they are good, and they will give credit to the OL.

Grid
01-03-2006, 05:25 PM
Ron Jaworski rated us #3 on the top 5 most coveted head coaching positions. KC and Green Bay were ahead of us.

HoustonFrog
01-03-2006, 08:36 PM
Two words. Denver Broncos. That line could make almost anyone on this board a 1000 yard back. The game is one in the trenches. Besides, ask any decent running back why they are good, and they will give credit to the OL.

Yeah and besides one guy who was the 20th pick a year or so ago their line is made up of a free agent, a 7th rounder and two 4th rounders. So why don't we take a guy with the 3rd pick or something after moving down.(roll eyes). It makes no sense. You don't think guys would want to block for an explosive back?There is a reason why most teams that make it to the playoffs have a great backs or featured backs. (Portis, Caddilac, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Tiki Barber, Bus, Edge, S. Alexander) Hitting a hole and yards after the hole are not a given with a good line. Basically the o-line argument is taking things away from the special backs. There is a reason why there is a difference between S. Alexander and DD.

Texans86
01-03-2006, 08:55 PM
Yeah and besides one guy who was the 20th pick a year or so ago their line is made up of a free agent, a 7th rounder and two 4th rounders. So why don't we take a guy with the 3rd pick or something after moving down.(roll eyes). It makes no sense. You don't think guys would want to block for an explosive back?There is a reason why most teams that make it to the playoffs have a great backs or featured backs. (Portis, Caddilac, Fred Taylor, Corey Dillon, Tiki Barber, Bus, Edge, S. Alexander) Hitting a hole and yards after the hole are not a given with a good line. Basically the o-line argument is taking things away from the special backs. There is a reason why there is a difference between S. Alexander and DD.

These guys are professionals. When someone new comes into your office building do you want to work harder for them. These guys are fighting to keep their jobs, not just out there having fun. Work hard every down, or find some place else to work next year. Basically, no, I don't think they will want to block harder for Bush than they do currently for DD. In fact he might have to work harder to make them block as much as they do for DD. DD probly had to work hard to gain their respect.

UGA
01-03-2006, 09:43 PM
In fact he might have to work harder to make them block as much as they do for DD. DD probly had to work hard to gain their respect.

yeah he worked hard to beat out a special teams player in wells.

an o-line as a whole is judged by the amount of success they have around them. having a dynamic player like Bush gives them more of an opportunity for success.

as mentioned what defines a great back is his ability to turn a regular five yard gain into a run to the house. this is what davis lacks. he has good agility, but isnt explosive. he doesnt have a nose for the goal in the redzone.

now you tell me that an o-line doesnt want a playmaker behind them that can take a typical 3 yard gain for 50. someone who can elude that one extra tackle for a big gain, or outrun a db for the endzone.

HJam72
01-03-2006, 09:45 PM
yeah he worked hard to beat out a special teams player in wells.

an o-line as a whole is judged by the amount of success they have around them. having a dynamic player like Bush gives them more of an opportunity for success.

as mentioned what defines a great back is his ability to turn a regular five yard gain into a run to the house. this is what davis lacks. he has good agility, but isnt explosive. he doesnt have a nose for the goal in the redzone.

now you tell me that an o-line doesnt want a playmaker behind them that can take a typical 3 yard gain for 50. someone who can elude that one extra tackle for a big gain, or outrun a db for the endzone.

All good points, except one.

AUSTexan
01-03-2006, 09:46 PM
Ron Jaworski rated us #3 on the top 5 most coveted head coaching positions. KC and Green Bay were ahead of us.


Just read this on sfgate.com and thought you guys would be interested:

[...Capers was hired as the first coach of Houston's expansion team in some degree because of the success he had with Carolina's expansion team a decade ago, guiding it to the NFC Championship Game in his second season.

But the Texans, who improved from four victories their first year to five and then seven, regressed in 2005. They finished with a league-worst 2-14 record with a roster that should have done better.

"We want to see improvement every year," owner Bob McNair said. "That didn't happen this year."

Former 49ers' assistant Gary Kubiak, offensive coordinator on Mike Shanahan's Denver staff, is expected to get the first interview for the Texans job, which is one of the most attractive openings because of McNair's willingness to spend money and do everything first class. The Texans already have some of the pieces in place to make progress, and they also have the first pick in the 2006 draft.

Kubiak, a former NFL quarterback, presumably would be able to help develop quarterback David Carr. McNair said the Texans planned to pick up the $8 million option on Carr's contract.]

sprtsfanatic
01-03-2006, 10:03 PM
Just read this on sfgate.com and thought you guys would be interested:

[...Capers was hired as the first coach of Houston's expansion team in some degree because of the success he had with Carolina's expansion team a decade ago, guiding it to the NFC Championship Game in his second season.

But the Texans, who improved from four victories their first year to five and then seven, regressed in 2005. They finished with a league-worst 2-14 record with a roster that should have done better.

"We want to see improvement every year," owner Bob McNair said. "That didn't happen this year."

Former 49ers' assistant Gary Kubiak, offensive coordinator on Mike Shanahan's Denver staff, is expected to get the first interview for the Texans job, which is one of the most attractive openings because of McNair's willingness to spend money and do everything first class. The Texans already have some of the pieces in place to make progress, and they also have the first pick in the 2006 draft.

Kubiak, a former NFL quarterback, presumably would be able to help develop quarterback David Carr. McNair said the Texans planned to pick up the $8 million option on Carr's contract.]

now that is some fresh and interesting news...always good to hear what the "experts" have to say about our team.

michaelm
01-03-2006, 10:06 PM
Do I think we would do better in the playoffs if we traded away the pick and got other spots of need? Yep. There I said it. We are better without Bush, let the criticism begin.

I'm not debating your point, but I wonder...
Do you think that we would have been better off if we traded the pick used for AJ for more picks in lower rounds?
How about the pick we used for Dunta?
OK, I won't ask about TJ...

Grid
01-03-2006, 10:12 PM
Speaking of TJ..we traded down with him and ya see how that turned out.

michaelm
01-03-2006, 10:22 PM
Two words. Denver Broncos. That line could make almost anyone on this board a 1000 yard back. The game is one in the trenches. Besides, ask any decent running back why they are good, and they will give credit to the OL.


I'm starting to love people who reference the Broncos as a reason not to draft an RB and draft OL instead.
The Broncos have one 1st rounder (Foster 2003 firstround #20), but no other starting Ol was taken higher than the 4th round.

LT Matt Lepsis UNDRAFTED free agent 1997
LG Ben Hamilton #4a (#113) 2001
C Tom Nalen #7c (#218) 1994
RG Cooper Carlisle #4b (#113) 2000
RT George Foster #1a (#20) 2003


I have a feeling that there will be a decrease in Denver Broncos references in the Bush/OL debate...


p.s. that's an undrafted free agent manning the LT position...:)

To be truthful, i just stumbled upon this info researching for another post I responded to. I thought it would be relevant here too.


*edit* to give credit to HoustonFrog for giving this info ahead of me. I just hit reply to the previous post and hadn't read yours yet...

michaelm
01-03-2006, 10:22 PM
Speaking of TJ..we traded down with him and ya see how that turned out.


Score

HoustonFrog
01-04-2006, 08:31 AM
Never mind...great minds think alike Michaelm

jaayteetx
01-04-2006, 09:14 AM
Well if it makes anyone feel anybetter, Dan Patrick ranks us as the #1 spot for a new coach. He was talking about it/us on his show on ESPN Radio.

The NFL network was also speaking highly of the Texans, anyway you look at it, they are all just a bunch of talking heads.

TheOgre
01-04-2006, 09:44 AM
The media hates all Houston teams for some reason. They never want to see the best players go there and look for every opportunity for chances to speculate that one wants to leave. They wanted Roger Clemens to be traded to the Yankees because they thought he was being wasted in Houston. Funny how the Astros went to the World Series and the Yankees didn't. They wanted Yao to leave the Rockets and go to the Lakers. They want Reggie Bush to go to the Jets. They believe that Houston is the black hole of the sports world and that the only places that are good are cities in California or New York.

Houston is what I would call a "neutral" site in the eyes of the national media. They would rather see a player go here than a lot of places, but we aren't New York or LA in terms of media attention. Bush in New York would be surreal, Bush in New Orleans would be a waste, and Bush in Houston is fine.

Texans86
01-04-2006, 11:44 AM
I'm not debating your point, but I wonder...
Do you think that we would have been better off if we traded the pick used for AJ for more picks in lower rounds?
How about the pick we used for Dunta?
OK, I won't ask about TJ...

I would not agree with trading away the pick for AJ because we didn't have a good reciever. Remember Corey "Stonehands" Bradford was Carr's number one option. As for Dunta, we needed a young corner to go along with Glenn, who is on the downside of his career. He was also a good pick for #10, CB just fits well with that pick (not being a reciever, QB, or franchise LT which usually go higher.) However, running backs are rarely drafted first in recent NFL history. I don't think any have been post cap. TJ, well that was a stretch in the first place, and considering it was only his 1st year, he gets another 2 years to prove himself.