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View Full Version : D-Rob hoping for return to 4-3 in '06


nunusguy
01-03-2006, 07:12 AM
"I don't think guys like Robaire (Smith) and Travis (Johnson) are ends," Robinson said. "They're tackles. Antwan (Peek) and Jason (Babin) are ends, not outside linebackers. They should be rushing the passer all the time. When Morlon Greenwood made plays at Miami, he was outside in a 4-3, not inside in a 3-4."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3561047.html

Johnny Utah
01-03-2006, 07:19 AM
This was on Fox 26 Sports last night. They also talked to Gary Walker and he said that he would like to see the Texans switch to a 4-3 next year. Travis Johnson said that he thought he was more suited to be a 4-3 DT.

It would surprise me a great deal not to see this team switch next year.

Grid
01-03-2006, 07:35 AM
sounds like the players want the 4-3.. though.. that could just be because they have been forced to play in a poorly run 3-4, and feel like it isnt the system they want to stay in now.

Texas_Thrill
01-03-2006, 08:38 AM
Or it could be that they feel their skills are better in a 4-3. We all know how ridiculous drafting TJ was and expecting him to flip over to a 3-4 scheme when we wouldn't even draft DJ b/c he played in a 43 in college.

Malloy
01-03-2006, 09:04 AM
The Texans have been running a few 4-3 plays. It would be interesting to see some statistics concerning the success and production of the team when they line up in 3-4 or 4-3.

JfromthaTray
01-03-2006, 09:13 AM
Who would play the other end opposite Peek? Please don't say babin.

texan279
01-03-2006, 09:16 AM
Who would play the other end opposite Peek? Please don't say babin.

Yes Babin, what's wrong with that? He played 4-3 DE in college and looks good coming out of a 3 point stance. Actually I would think Babin would start at RDE.

Porky
01-03-2006, 09:23 AM
Who would play the other end opposite Peek? Please don't say babin.

Why couldn't Gary Walker man one of the end positions? He has played that position before, and is a run stuffer. For the other spot, we can draft someone or sign a FA. I see Peek and Babin coming in on 3rd and long downs to rush the passer from those spots. I said it this year, our personell is more suited for a 4-3 than a 3-4, so there won't be this huge transition. Kind of amazing since we have been running the 3-4 for 4 yrs. By the 2007 season, we should be fully set. I never have been a fan of the 3-4. I'm tired of bypassing major league talent, while projecting that some guy at North Dakota St. Jr College can surely make the transition to OLB in a 3-4. :brickwall

Reggie_2006
01-03-2006, 09:32 AM
I think we should have babin at DE and keep antwan peek at LB and try to find the best DE left in the 3rd.If we cant get one good enough then we should then put antwan peek at DE.Antwan peek has played very good at LB and I'd hate to move him from there.

JfromthaTray
01-03-2006, 09:37 AM
Yes Babin, what's wrong with that? He played 4-3 DE in college and looks good coming out of a 3 point stance. Actually I would think Babin would start at RDE.
So you're a Babin fan who doesn't think we should draft Reggie Bush, no further comment.

texan279
01-03-2006, 09:51 AM
So you're a Babin fan who doesn't think we should draft Reggie Bush, no further comment.

Did you watch the 49'ers game? Babin had 8 tackles and 2 sacks and against the Cards he had 3 tackles 2 sacks and a forced fumble. The guy is starting to come around after switching from a 4-3 DE in college to a 3-4 OLB 2 years ago...

JfromthaTray
01-03-2006, 09:54 AM
Did you watch the 49'ers game? Babin had 8 tackles and 2 sacks and against the Cards he had 3 tackles 2 sacks and a forced fumble. The guy is starting to come around after switching from a 4-3 DE in college to a 3-4 OLB 2 years ago...
Orr lead the team in sacks and wasn't even starting at the beginning of the season. He replace the benched walking tattoo. Wow! he had ok games against 2 of the worst teams in the league.

texan279
01-03-2006, 09:55 AM
Orr lead the team in sacks and wasn't even starting at the beginning of the season. He replace the benched walking tattoo. Wow! he had ok games against 2 of the worst teams in the league.

Orr has played in all 16 games this season while Babin has played in 12 games this season...

JfromthaTray
01-03-2006, 10:00 AM
Orr didn't START all games, I said START. Babin was benched and replaced by Orr. You like Babin, I don't. I like Bush, you don't. Were both Texan fans go team go. Dubya 06, I mean Reggie 06.

texan279
01-03-2006, 10:02 AM
Orr didn't START all games, I said START. Babin was benched and replaced by Orr. You like Babin, I don't. I like Bush, you don't. Were both Texan fans go team go. Dubya 06, I mean Reggie 06.

Doesn't really matter how many games they started, you can start a game play one down and sit the rest of the game out. And I don't have a problem with Orr, if we stay with the 3-4 I would rather see Babin and Orr at OLB, Peek is who I have a problem with...

TheOgre
01-03-2006, 10:09 AM
Neither Babin or Peek is big enough to play a 4-3 LDE. I think one of our DT's, perhaps Walker or TJ, would play LDE for a season if we don't sign someone. If we had to go with our current roster to build our defense, here is how it would look IMO:

LDE Walker
LDT R. Smith
RDT Payne/TJ
RDE Peek/Babin
LLB Orr
MLB Wong
RLB Greenwood
RCB Robinson
LCB Buchanon/Faggins
SS G. Earl
FS C.C. Brown

You could have a 3 man rotation at DT with Payne, TJ, and Smith.

the wonger need food
01-03-2006, 10:16 AM
Good for DRob. It's good to see him taking a leadership role on this team.

This article confirms what many of us have suspected all along... the players lost confidence in the coaching staff. I would look for players on the offensive side to start speaking up about their system as well.

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 10:33 AM
This whole team is screwed up. We never had a solid NT to play the 3-4. Payne should have either of been let go this year and we persued Pat Williams better or we should have drafted a bigger NT through the draft the last couple of years (Castillo, Pouha, Wilfork, Tubbs etc.) Why we went after Robaire Smith in a draft that was heavy in DT's is beyond me. And people still think Casserly is great. Please.

I am still convinces that Babin is a good player, we reached too much to get him (another Casserly blunder) but he is still good. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it takes a tweeners in the 3-4 a little bit longer to develop and I certainly believe that he was rushed into the position and wasn't given time to develop. As far as his production this year, early on he had a shoulder injury and tried to play through it, that is the reason he was benched. He tried to go out and play in spite of the injury, something that should be commended.

We are more than likely going to switch to the 4-3 (although the Steelers and Patriots seem to run their 3-4 effectively) so we are in a helluva bind with our current personnel. So you can add DE to the mix of Oline, TE, CB and WR for the needs in this years draft because other than Babin we don't have one. Peek is not a DE in this league and will get blown up on the run. We are left with 4 DT's and not true end so someone is going to get the axe, and personally I think Payne is the 1st to go because his salary is absorbable.

As for D-Rob, he seems frustrated but his 1 interception all year isn't going to cut it either. It was much simpler for him being the #2 CB on this team than it was the #1. He's another one that is playing out of positions because he certainly is not a #1 cornerback.

A Texan
01-03-2006, 10:55 AM
"I don't think guys like Robaire (Smith) and Travis (Johnson) are ends," Robinson said. "They're tackles. Antwan (Peek) and Jason (Babin) are ends, not outside linebackers. They should be rushing the passer all the time. When Morlon Greenwood made plays at Miami, he was outside in a 4-3, not inside in a 3-4."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3561047.html

It's common practice for 3-4 teams to seek tackles to play DE and undersized DE's from college to play OLB. DE's don't have the same responsibilities in a 3-4.
http://www.nfl.com/news/story/6458172

LBC_Justin
01-03-2006, 10:59 AM
As for D-Rob, he seems frustrated but his 1 interception all year isn't going to cut it either. It was much simpler for him being the #2 CB on this team than it was the #1. He's another one that is playing out of positions because he certainly is not a #1 cornerback.
As for D-rob.

Yes he should've had more interceptions but if you watch the games, they stayed away from him. We only have one great player on Defense, all most teams was did was focus on other areas of our Defense, D-rob was very rarely challenged directly this year. He was given lots of respect.

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 11:03 AM
As for D-rob.

Yes he should've had more interceptions but if you watch the games, they stayed away from him. We only have one great player on Defense, all most teams was did was focus on other areas of our Defense, D-rob was very rarely challenged directly this year. He was given lots of respect.He got burnt many times this year, and most notibly he gave up on several plays towards the end of the season. No player is beyond being critiqued on a 2-11 team.

cuppacoffee
01-03-2006, 11:23 AM
This whole team is screwed up. We never had a solid NT to play the 3-4. Payne should have either of been let go this year and we persued Pat Williams better or we should have drafted a bigger NT through the draft the last couple of years (Castillo, Pouha, Wilfork, Tubbs etc.) Why we went after Robaire Smith in a draft that was heavy in DT's is beyond me. And people still think Casserly is great. Please.

I am still convinces that Babin is a good player, we reached too much to get him (another Casserly blunder) but he is still good. What a lot of folks don't understand is that it takes a tweeners in the 3-4 a little bit longer to develop and I certainly believe that he was rushed into the position and wasn't given time to develop. As far as his production this year, early on he had a shoulder injury and tried to play through it, that is the reason he was benched. He tried to go out and play in spite of the injury, something that should be commended.

We are more than likely going to switch to the 4-3 (although the Steelers and Patriots seem to run their 3-4 effectively) so we are in a helluva bind with our current personnel. So you can add DE to the mix of Oline, TE, CB and WR for the needs in this years draft because other than Babin we don't have one. Peek is not a DE in this league and will get blown up on the run. We are left with 4 DT's and not true end so someone is going to get the axe, and personally I think Payne is the 1st to go because his salary is absorbable.

As for D-Rob, he seems frustrated but his 1 interception all year isn't going to cut it either. It was much simpler for him being the #2 CB on this team than it was the #1. He's another one that is playing out of positions because he certainly is not a #1 cornerback.

I believe the 'genius' in Dallas is also switching to the 3-4. Its all in the coaching folks, and we haven't had much of that lately.
Sooner or later players and coaches have to accept the fact that just maybe they screwed up and move on from there.

On the other hand: I burned the toast this morning, my spouse should have told me to watch it closer.

:coffee:

Coach C.
01-03-2006, 12:05 PM
D-rob and the other Texans that want the 4-3 are fine by saying that. It is what they feel more comfortable in. the problem I have is they have never really played in a 3-4 system. They played in a Cover2/3-4 base that made them look horrible. McKinney on the radio earlier today said Peek should always be head hunting the QB, well in most 3-4 systems he would be. DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, Shawne Merrimen, and Willie McGinest do not drop into coverage very much at all, and most of the time you dont. I am a proponent of the 3-4 and bias because Coach Slocum showed me how to play it correctly. I dont mind the switch, but the 3-4 is a monster defense when played correctly.

bdiddy
01-03-2006, 12:49 PM
The problem right now is that the personnel we have currently is not entirely suited for either the 3-4 or the 4-3.

The current D-line is in need of tweaking. The Texans have 4 DTs if we switch to the 4-3 (Johnson, Smith, Walker, Payne) and two pass rushing DEs (Peek and Babin). I do not think Peek is an every down DE, however, he may be a great pass rushing specialist (ala Mathis of the Colts). If Babin does play DE, he will have to play on the weakside because of his lack of size. In turn we need to sign and/or draft several DEs, preferably with good size. Walker may be able to play DE on running downs and switch to DT on passing situations, however, this is a stretch. I read an earlier post that said he played DE - this is misleading because he has never been a DE in a 4-3 scheme.

Our current LB are not well suited for the 4-3. Greenwood would be fine at OLB. Wong is an OLB in the 4-3 scheme, he may play the mike position if forced to, but is ill suited for this position. Orr is a decent prospect at OLB. Thus, we need a strong mike linebacker.

Our secondary is young and developing. Robinson is the best young corner in the league. Buchanon is not worth what we gave up to get him, but he is an average number 2 corner or an above average number 3 corner. Faggins is an average number 3 corner and is fine for nickel packages. The two young safeties will continue to improve, especially if we can improve our pass rush.

In sum, we need (a) 2 DEs, (2) 2 MLB (run stopping specialists), and (3) depth in the defensive backfield. This may be done, but will probably take more than one offseason considering the needs on the offensive side of the ball and the likely hiring of an offensive minded coach. I think we sign a adequate-to-quality MLB and a DE and concentrate on improving the offense during the current offseason.

SESupergenius
01-03-2006, 01:09 PM
D-rob and the other Texans that want the 4-3 are fine by saying that. It is what they feel more comfortable in. the problem I have is they have never really played in a 3-4 system. They played in a Cover2/3-4 base that made them look horrible. McKinney on the radio earlier today said Peek should always be head hunting the QB, well in most 3-4 systems he would be. DeMarcus Ware, Joey Porter, Shawne Merrimen, and Willie McGinest do not drop into coverage very much at all, and most of the time you dont. I am a proponent of the 3-4 and bias because Coach Slocum showed me how to play it correctly. I dont mind the switch, but the 3-4 is a monster defense when played correctly.
Go back and look at the last 5-6 games, Peek was put in more passing rushing situations that previously he's been allowed to. His productivity doesn't reflect that he should have had more sacks and pressures. After giving him a full season at the ROLB spot I am convinced that he just doesn't have the mentality or skills to be a ROLB.

michaelm
01-03-2006, 01:24 PM
maybe a team will trade us an entire 4-3 line like Cleveland did with Denver last year.
Everyone thought Shanahan was nuts trading for players that had underachieved for the Browns, but it looks like it worked out pretty well.

run-david-run
01-03-2006, 01:36 PM
Go back and look at the last 5-6 games, Peek was put in more passing rushing situations that previously he's been allowed to. His productivity doesn't reflect that he should have had more sacks and pressures. After giving him a full season at the ROLB spot I am convinced that he just doesn't have the mentality or skills to be a ROLB.
ur right, he should be a pass rushing DE. If the coaching staff tells him, "hey, u are jsut going to rush the pass", he can loose the weight he gained this offeseason, regain some qucikness and really wreak havoc on 3rd and long, an area that we suck in right now!!!

eriadoc
01-03-2006, 02:19 PM
If Babin does play DE, he will have to play on the weakside because of his lack of size.

There are more than a few defensive ends that are in the 260-269 lb. range. Babin is 6'3" 259. Burgess, for the Raiders, led the NFL in sacks this season at 6'2" 260 lbs. I'd have to go look, but I'd be willing to bet there aren't that many outside linebackers running around at 6'3", 259 lbs. I guess I don't see the size issues in the same light that you do.

rmartin65
01-03-2006, 02:30 PM
I think Babin would be good at DE, I'm not sold on Peek.

Bobo
01-03-2006, 03:16 PM
"I don't think guys like Robaire (Smith) and Travis (Johnson) are ends," Robinson said. "They're tackles. Antwan (Peek) and Jason (Babin) are ends, not outside linebackers. They should be rushing the passer all the time. When Morlon Greenwood made plays at Miami, he was outside in a 4-3, not inside in a 3-4."
http://www.chron.com/disp/story.mpl/sports/3561047.html

I don't care what this guy has to say. He didn't have a good enough year to make comments like this. He should concentrate on better production for the coming year.

Runner
01-03-2006, 03:21 PM
Everyone thought Shanahan was nuts trading for players that had underachieved for the Browns, but it looks like it worked out pretty well.

There is a lesson in there about coaching, and there is hope for the new season.

bdiddy
01-03-2006, 03:22 PM
There are more than a few defensive ends that are in the 260-269 lb. range. Babin is 6'3" 259. Burgess, for the Raiders, led the NFL in sacks this season at 6'2" 260 lbs. I'd have to go look, but I'd be willing to bet there aren't that many outside linebackers running around at 6'3", 259 lbs. I guess I don't see the size issues in the same light that you do.

I said Babin would be forced to play the weakside, meaning the side of the formation on which a tight end does not line up (generally right DE). It is possible to have a DE Babin's size so long as you have good run stopping DE on the strong side and good tackling LBs. Babin is too small to regularly stop the run on the strong side, no one in the NFL save Freeney can do this and Babin is not Dwight Freeney.

Honoring Earl 34
01-03-2006, 03:27 PM
:brickwall The Cowboys and Parcells drafted more 3-4 players last year than we've obtained with four drafts .

HJam72
01-03-2006, 03:30 PM
:brickwall The Cowboys and Parcells drafted more 3-4 players last year than we've obtained with four drafts .

Figures.

At this point, I definitely want the switch made. I always preferred the 4-3 anyway.

Fiddy
01-03-2006, 03:34 PM
Orr lead the team in sacks and wasn't even starting at the beginning of the season. He replace the benched walking tattoo. Wow! he had ok games against 2 of the worst teams in the league. Just so you know, the reason Babin was ineffective for most of the season was because he hurt his shoulder and tried to play through it at the beginning of the season. It is very hard to bullrush or spin with a bad shoulder.